On this episode of The Karen Kenney Show, I talk about the difference between being an Illuminator and a Diminisher.

And why some people can make you feel seen, lit up, and welcome, while others can make you feel kinda' invisible.

I tell a story about some recent experiences of being in rooms with people I've known my whole life who never asked me a single question about myself. (WTF is up with that? 😆)

And how familiarity can breed contempt when folks decide who you are, stick you in a box, and never update their perspectives or systems.

I also talk about David Brooks' wonderful book How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen.

We explore the qualities that he says keep Diminishers from truly seeing us (egotism, anxiety, naive realism, stereotyping, the static mindset)...

And the qualities that make Illuminators so magnetic - their tenderness, receptivity, active curiosity, affection, generosity, and a holistic attitude!

I also talk about the prayer of Saint Francis, my DSP (Daily Spiritual Practice), and why I think Mister Rogers and Ted Lasso are some go-to examples of being Illuminators who bring illumination! (David Brooks agrees 😉)

We’re also reminded of that line from A Course in Miracles that tells us: You are the light of the world! Double Amen Hands to that! 🙌

I believe that one of the greatest ways we show love is to pay attention - so my hope is that wherever you go - may your presence, your curiosity, and your illumination be a blessing! ❤️

KAREN KENNEY BIO:

Karen Kenney is a writer, speaker, podcaster, certified spiritual mentor, and coach.

She’s known for her dynamic storytelling, her sense of humor, her Boston accent, and her no-bullshit approach to spirituality, self​-development, and transformational change work.

Karen helps people to navigate this whole “being human” experience using a variety of practical tools, personal stories, and universal principles.

She's been a yoga teacher for 25+ years, has been a Thai Yoga Massage practitioner since 2008.

She's also a Gateless Writing Instructor, the creator of WRITE CLUB , and the host of The Karen Kenney Show podcast.

She coaches clients individually in her HEART-TO-HEART DAYS and in her 1-to1 program: THE QUEST

CONNECT WITH KAREN:

Website: http://karenkenney.com/

Podcast: https://www.karenkenney.com/podcast

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/karenkenneylive/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karenkenneylive/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@KarenKenney

It's the Karen Kenney show.

Hey, you guys! Welcome to the Karen Kenney Show. I'm super

duper excited to be here with you today, and I swear I'm gonna

do my best.

I'm already worried about too many side quests. I'm already

worried that I'm gonna be like over here telling a story and

then being like, and I'm back, but I'm gonna do my best to stay

on topic. There's a reason why. There's a lot of aspects to the

thing that I want to talk about today,

and how how I kind of feel the story. One of the stories that

I'm gonna kick off with today basically matches.

Basically matches the sweatshirt I'm wearing. The feeling so I

have on one of my batsy head sweatshirts, and all it says on

it for words, it just says "heck,

like "heck. And there's a picture of little little cat

batsy head, oh, with his legs and his arms sticking out in

front of him, just kind of like defeated, sitting on the ground,

like defeated,

like, oh heck, you know what I mean. So let's just dive into

this. You might have seen the title, right? Are you an

illuminator or are you a diminisher? And we're going to

get into all of that.

But let me start by telling you a little bit of a story. And

this is going to be, you know, sometimes memoirists. You know,

we do we do seek people who write like real stories, true

stories, right? Nonfiction work. We really do try to,

you know, tell tell the truth, meaning factual, emotional

truth, or whatever. And sometimes, though, when we're

creating a character or telling a story, sometimes people will

take what I call like a conglomeration. They'll they'll

they'll pull from different characters and stuff, so that

that person on one level may not be able to be distinguished.

Like they they can't necessarily maybe see themselves and sue

you.

But sometimes it like this trait or characteristic exists in many

people, and they're just proving a point about the thing. Okay,

stay with me.

Buckle up. Okay, so this has happened to me more times than I

can't account. Happens to me all the fucking time. This has been

my experience. Now you may or may not relate to this. My sense

is that some of you out there, some of you out there, are going

to give me a double amen hands because you know what I'm

talking about,

and some of you might learn from this conversation. Some of you

might feel a little like, ooh, ooh, yeah, ooh, I do that

sometimes. Some of you are going to be like, I'm awesome at this,

like whatever. And I always want to say at the beginning, you

know, there's always like, come on, let's use our common sense.

We're all adults. There's exceptions to every rule. There

are nuances to everything. So take what works, take what

applies, and like leave the rest. Okay.

So

I'm gonna kind of say a couple. I've been in a couple of

experiences lately when I've been

at a place or in a room with people,

and sometimes these are people that I have never ever met

before, and sometimes they are people I have known my whole

life,

and I will have not have if I've never met you before. Of course,

I haven't been in the room with you before, or in the space, or

the event with you before.

But there are times when I am in a room or a place or a

situation, an event with people I've known my whole life,

and there's something that happens, and we've talked about

this before, right? About how

I say sometimes familiarity breeds contempt, where it is

that the people closest to you, it could be family members, it

could be friends, your coworkers, whatever people who

see you all the time or whatever?

They lose. They don't have a lot of. Sometimes they lose respect

for you, or they don't truly see you. They diminish you in some

way.

They're not curious about you anymore. They kind of have

decided who you are, and they put you in a box, and they don't

ever try to update the contents of that box. They're just happy

to kind of label you this thing and leave you there. It's their

loss. P.S. By the way, if somebody's doing that to you,

they like to just keep things how how things were, keep it

familiar, never update the system, never have to grow or do

some critical thinking or whatever. But I find it

fascinating, fascinating that you can be in a room with people

who you've known your whole life, who you haven't seen in

over a year. Sometimes you just see them occasionally, and that

you can be with them for over 90 minutes plus, and they will

never ask you a single question about yourself.

They don't ask you how you're doing. They don't ask you how

your your partner, your sweetie is. They don't ask you about if

you have children, perhaps, or your furry kids. They don't ask

you about your job, your life, your hat, your dreams, your

mind, what's going on inside of you, how you feel, anything new

going on, anything you're excited about. Tell me about

your work. Tell me about something.

Like I'm talking zip zero milch nada nothing, nothing. It never

occurs to these people to check in on you, to ask about you, to

be like a shred, just a shred of curiosity. So this has happened

to me. This happens to me a lot Now, one

of the things that I am most is curious. I am curious about

people. I'm fascinated by people. I'm always going to be

like I shouldn't say always. I'm sure there are some occasions

when I choose to just not be inquisitive. But if I'm not

being inquisitive, P.S. P.S. If you know me and I'm not being

inquisitive, there's a reason for that.

Probably I have made a conscious choice, I have made a decision,

right? But by and large, I'm wicked curious about people, and

I ask a lot of follow-up questions, and I say things like

tell me more, or why did you, or how come, or what do you think,

or what's that about, or oh my God, right? I get very

enthusiastic and very curious about people, and it's not so

much that I expect everybody to be like me and to have that same

level of curiosity or whatever, but when you have like 00,

curiosity. about the people around you. I just don't even

know what to do with that,

and I don't. I'm about to take my first side quest. I don't

just see this happening like to me, quote unquote. I'm not that

special. It happens to a lot of us a lot of the time, but I also

see this lack of curiosity in couples and people who have been

together for a really long time. And if you've ever had, like you

know, back in the day when like grandparents are that age, the

as they would say boomers or whatever. But that generation of

people, you know, a lot of them really didn't get divorced, so

they just stayed together, even though they just could not stand

one another, and any time the other one would start to talk,

the other one would like roll their eyes so hard in the back

of their head that I thought they're gonna get stuck there.

Like just you could just see you could just see the contempt, and

a lot of times when you spend long periods of time with

people, again whether it's a sibling, a partner, a wife, a

husband, whoever, coworker, whatever it is,

we start to make assumptions about them that we already know

who they are, we already know what they think, we already

assume that we know how they're going to respond, what they're

going to feel, what they're going to like or not like,

whatever. And that choice to not see them with fresh eyes, to

never update the system to never ask questions to never get under

the under, you know. And I saw a video recently.

Recently, I saw it like in the last 24 hours, and I found this

fascinating. And it was a really lovely video, meaning what the

son was trying to do. But the son did the post, and he was

saying that he was out with his mom. He had taken; they were out

to get some food, and when they came out of the restaurant, all

these people were milling around because they were on their way

to go see Bruno Maz. All right, in concert,

and his mother somehow his he found out in that moment, that

very moment, that his mother was a huge Bruno Mars fan, and that

she knew all of his songs, and that she loved him, and so what?

And so on the spot, he bought a ticket. It bought tickets, and

he told her on the spot he was going to take her to the show.

And she's in the street, and she's like crying. She's so

happy. Now, of course, that's like the main focus of the

video. But what I found fascinating is that his mother

could be such a huge fan, and he had no idea. And I'm thinking,

how do you not know? And I guarantee you, a lot of people

will say, well, maybe his mother never told him. And I'm like,

let me tell you something about mothers,

right? Or, or a lot of times, women in general. It's like we

are not known because we are often invisible,

right? We are not known because, like, when I think about how

many pictures I'm not in because I'm the one capturing the

moment, I'm the one who is thinking about other people's

needs and what other people will want, and I'm like, I should

take a picture for them of this or whatever. A lot of times,

nobody thinks to ask the mom what she needs, what she wants,

who she was before she became a mother and became like you know,

do you know what I'm saying? Like doubling men hands, if you

know what I'm talking about. So,

people don't ask; they don't think to ask, and that are the

that is like the qualities of being a diminisher, and we're

going to get into that right now.

So that that was one of like so I've had my own personal

experiences with this. You know, I told you I was recently

watching my friend's business, and all not all day long, but

all throughout the day, different people would come in,

and I would end up talking to these people for like two hours,

right? But one.

One of the things I recognized and realized once again is that

I do like 95, 97% of the asking questions, engaging, wanting,

and you know why I do it because number one, I genuinely care

about people. I'm wicked curious, and I like connecting

with people. And I'm like, if this person is standing in front

of me and they're coming into this place, whatever it is, it

could be a place of business or whatever, and they're clearly

coming in for a reason. And I want to get to know who they

are. Like I'm like, so like, oh, you're an artist, or you're

this, or you're that, and I love to ask them, like, you know,

what were you like? And if you ever see me on my podcast

interviewing people. Like I genuinely like love getting like

under the under and like understanding where a person

comes from and what they feel and what they think. And I know

I'm not alone. I have my friends. I wouldn't be friends

with certain. I would not be friends with people who are not

curious? Well, maybe I'm friendly with them, but I will

not spend time with people who do not have these qualities. And

we're going to get into this because I think it's really

important. So,

um, to go along with all of this, I'm going to try to stay

on track, right? So you guys know I said, and like I always

tell you guys how I have bookcases all over the house,

and I have a bookcase in my bathroom, and I keep a lot of

times books in there that I've already read that I want to just

kind of peruse through,

that I want to remember, like to to look something up, but

whatever. So there's a book, one of the books that I have in

there. I love this book. I'm going to hold it up for you

right now. This is from David Brooks. It's called "How to Know

a Person, and the subtitle

is "The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen.

Ah, I love this so much. Okay, David Brooks, "How to Know a

The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply seen,

and in this book, David talks about these two different ways.

I will call them ways of being in the world. We could label

them as these are this group of people and that group of people.

I think we all have the potential to be either one of

these groups, right? But I think of it more these descriptions as

ways of being in the world, and we can always change that. Once

we get a little clarity and a little awareness, and we start

to realize, like, oh yeah, like I sometimes have these

qualities, and I would like to feel more connected to people. I

would like to have deeper relationships. I really

desperately want to be seen, and also want to see others with a

level of depth

and care, you know. And it's really interesting too. Here's

another little side quest.

As part of my DSP, my daily spiritual practice, for a

gazillion years now, I don't know. It's been a wicked long

time. I mean, I was hello. I was raised a Catholic kid, right? So

you guys know my my love of Saint Francis and Saint Francis

of Assisi. He is the patron saints of animals, the patron

saints of the environment,

and he used to go out into the woods and commune with the birds

and the animals, and he would preach to them and talk to them

and really commune with them, you know. And so his prayer at

the end of his prayer, and I'm telling you this because

part of me has learned over all of these years

of seeing people. I am in the business of seeing people. I it

is who I am as a curious person and caring about people and

stuff like that. But a lot of people are not like this. But

also, I have trained myself to try to be this way, because

trust me, we all have a selfish streak in us. We all have had

times when we have put so much focus on ourselves and our own

needs, and us, us, us, and me, me, me, and I, I, I. You know

what I'm saying?

So this, you know, the prayer of Saint Francis, at the end, it

says, "Grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to

console, to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to

love. For it's in giving that we receive; it's in pardoning that

we are pardoned. Right? And it goes on, but those lines talking

about like may I not so much I'll break it down you know

casually may not so much walk around so much worried about

what I'm getting,

right? This is a prayer about starting to train our mind. This

is how I see it: train our mind, break up those patterns of the

ego, break up the patterns of I'm the most important or

interesting thing in the room, and really learning to to not

ask what can I get, but what can I give, right? Who am I being?

So for 30 plus, I mean, easily, you know, it's more. I mean,

more than that, 40. However long I've loved St. Francis, I've had

this prayer in my heart, and I repeat it every day. Sometimes

several times a day.

When I feel myself getting a little,

when I feel myself getting a little whiny, I remind myself of

this.

Okay, but the reason why I'm telling you this is, I really

feel that prayer is illuminated. Also, the essence, the heartbeat

of that prayer is is illuminated in this book, How to Know a

Person. So I'm going to tell you something. Let me just read this

because I think this is so good. This is David Brooks speaking.

He says, "In every crowd there are diminishes and there are

illuminators. Diminishes make people feel small and unseen.

They see other people as things to be used, not as persons to be

befriended. They stereotype and ignore, and they are so involved

with themselves that other people are just not on their

radar screen. You're not even on the radar. In some ways, you

can't even take it personally because they probably don't see

anybody. They're so self-involved, and I can think

of I can think of several people, but one in particular

online a.

I can't even call people influences. It just makes me

want to stab myself in the eye with this pen right now.

But you can tell when somebody's going through a phase when they

are like hyper, like self focus and self. They feel really self

important by just the quality of whatever they're talking about

and how they're talking about it just gets a little extra weird,

you know. And I'm always just like, "Oh man, God blesses me.

Like God bless.

Okay, now

here's how we want to be.

Maybe, perhaps. I know this is how I want to be. I should speak

for myself, not tell you who you want to be. But illuminators,

David Brooks says. On the other hand, illuminators have a

persistent curiosity about other people. They have been trained

or have trained themselves in the craft of understanding

others, and they know what to look for and how to ask the

right questions at the right time. And they shine. Oh, I love

this sentence. I love this sentence. They shine the

brightness of their care on people and make them feel

bigger, deeper, respected, lit up.

Oh my God, you guys! And I have no doubt you've experienced

this. I have no doubt that you have met somebody who totally

put their focus and their interest on you. And I'm not

talking when like a narcissist just love bombs you. Although I

sure I'm sure you have experienced that feeling.

But you know when somebody fully is present and fully turns their

attention on you, and I say it all the time that one of the

greatest ways that we show love is to pay attention.

And what a good illuminator does is they shine their light on

you, and they're so present. And just their presence of listening

to you, and looking at you, and asking the right questions at

the right time in the right way, and being genuine-that's just

it. It's not. This is not some performative thing. This is

genuineness. Like this is like this is who I am. Like I do care

about you. I do want to connect with you? I do think that you

know you you that I respect you, and I want to learn more about

you and understand you. You know Maya Angelou used to talk about

this that like people aren't going to remember necessarily

like what you did, but they are going to remember how you made

them feel. They're going to remember how they felt in your

presence, and a diminisher, man. Can a diminisher just like knock

you down? Can a diminisher? It's not even that they knock you

down. You're just fucking invisible. They just don't even

see you. And I can always tell when I've been in the presence

of diminishes because I walk out and I think, why did I just

spend my time doing that? Like I walk away not feeling nurtured,

not feeling nourished, not feeling connected, not feeling,

and I'm not saying. Let's be clear. I'm not saying every

single friggin' conversation has to be some deep, deep, deep,

deep, deep thing. But I can tell when I'm in the presence of

somebody who actually gives a shit about me, somebody who

actually cares about me, somebody who actually wants to

know me or know me better, you know what I mean. I'm sure you,

you too, right? I have no doubt that you know what I'm talking

about. When when you are with a diminisher, a diminisher is

almost always way more involved in their own business, their own

drama, their own stuff, their own story, and they do not

engage. They don't invite engagement. They don't. They're

not looking for a deeper connection. They're not looking

to have a deeper conversation. Everything just kind of stays

servicey unless they're going on and on and on and on about

themselves. You know what I mean? So there's a difference

here. When when you're in somebody's presence, you know

what it's like to be in the presence of somebody who like

stokes your fire, right? They they they they turn up the

light. They turn up your light, and then there are the people

who kind of like suck suck the light. They don't even they

don't even acknowledge. I mean, they might acknowledge you like

hey hi whatever, but there's no energy, no effort, no enthusiasm

in your direction. You know what I mean? So I.

I think it's really important, and I wanted to share some of

the qualities. First of all, let me tell you a wicked funny

story,

because

if you're ever out in public, I know, I know, at some point,

probably all of us have been bad witness to this this experience,

right?

This is so it's not funny, but it did make me laugh.

Okay, so David Brooks tells this story about how one time he's at

a oh, why is my why I'm not talking to you, Siri, my stupid

watch.

So one time he's at a bar, and he's watching. He's like,

there's a couple, and apparently, right, they're on

their first date, and the guy he says is just like droning on and

on and

on about himself while staring at a spot on the wall. This is

I'm quoting David Brooks now, while staring at a spot on the

wall above about six feet over his date's head, and he goes and

as his monolog,

because it's clearly a monolog. He's just talking at this date.

He's not. He's not doing dialog. He's not doing conversation. He

is just monologuing his way. He says, as his monolog hits its

10th minute, I sense that she was silently praying

that she might spontaneously combust. So at least this date

could be over.

He says, "I felt the sudden urge to grab the guy by the nose and

scream for the love of God just once. Ask her a question.

Oh, he says, "I think this impulse of mine was justified,

but I'm not proud of it. But look, samezies man, samezies. So

often I see people,

you know, communicating or lack of communication. And if you

grow up in a family where people are just not good communicators,

it can be so painful if you are a communicator, you know.

And

sometimes that lack of communication,

it happens. because people aren't taught. It wasn't modeled

for them when they were younger. You know, I consider myself very

curious. Now, the level or depth that I ask questions, some

people from old school might say that's nosy. Oh, you're being

nosy. I'm like, I don't think asking people about themselves

is being nosy. And if I ever ask a question that's too personal.

I trust that the other person would be able to say I don't

feel comfortable answering that. And I always say that to my

guests. Hey, if I bring something up that you don't want

to talk about, you can say pass. You can say next. You can. You

don't have to answer it. You know, I trust adults to be

adulting and to be able to say,

yeah, I'm not comfortable answering that or whatever. I

think it's so important,

but to not even ask, right? To show no genuine curiosity in

another person-that to me is just like, oh my god, it's

painful and it's boring, and I'm not interested, and I don't want

to waste time, you know. And I've had girlfriends who have

told me that you know some of their other friendships have

ended because the person that they would go to spend time

with, they'd be together for like three hours, and it would

be in the last minute or at all that the other person would

realize, oh, I didn't even ask you about yourself, or like, how

are you doing, or like, whatever, you know. We've all

been there. We've all experienced it. And in fairness,

there have been times maybe,

you know, when you're going through something in your own

life, when you become super focused, you become hyper self

focused. I know this happens a lot when there's a lot of trauma

in young ages, right? I've talked about this before. You

know when you're too busy, or I shouldn't even say too busy,

when you're really focused on just trying to survive, and how

like your next, whether it's your next meal or a roof over

your head or money or whatever the thing is, when you're in a

health crisis, a relationship crisis, a financial crisis, a

crisis of whatever, it can be really hard to remember to take

that interoception, that focus on what's going on inside of me,

and putting it out there and and looking around you, you know,

it's not it's not always easy. But let me give you some

examples of what

David Brooks calls the

qualities of people who are diminishes. And now look, if you

notice some of these things in yourself,

please don't. I want to say, don't feel bad, but do something

about it. That's the fastest way that I change something. You

know, if there's something that has been going on that I'm like,

oh, I don't feel great about this, or I don't feel great

about myself because of this. One of the fastest ways I help

to get rid of that feeling, that sensation, is I do something

about it. I take a little action. I make an effort. I do

my best to change. Okay,

and he says this. He says,

what what a lot of diminishes also do is they kind of like do

an instant size up of people. They look at.

Somebody they make assumptions and they assume they know who

this person is, so they're not even going to bother asking

because they've already come in with this "I already know" type

of attitude. Okay, but here's here's some of the other things.

I love this. Listen to the. I mean, I don't love it, but I

appreciate this deeply. Meaning, listen to what he says. He says

the number one reason that people don't see others like

truly see another person is that they're too self-centered to

try. I can't see you because I'm all about myself. Let me tell

you my opinion. Let me entertain you with this story about

myself. And so many people aren't able to step outside of

themselves, right? They they have their own points of views,

and like that's it. And it's egotism. This is what he's

calling it. Number one, egotism. They're just simply not curious

about other people.

You've heard me talk about this ad nauseum. If you've been in a

yoga class with me for any amount of time, if you've

mentored with me, or I coached you at some point in any

capacity, you have heard me say

some of the best qualities of being a student, whether that's

a yoga student, whether that's a student who's trying

to, you know, deepen their relationship to themselves, to

know themselves better, to understand their relationship

with the divine, the world around them, whatever. The

number one quality for me is curiosity,

and you just can't make other people be curious.

Either you're curious or you're not. I don't know what to tell

you about that. And if you're not curious about other people,

you might want to check yourself before you wreck yourself, as

they say.

Okay, egotism. Another one is anxiety. I found this

fascinating.

So the number two reason

that people don't see others is that they have so much noise

inside their own head. So guys, you have so much chatter going

on about yourself and what you're doing and what you're

scared and what you're looking out for and the anxiety or

whatever that you're feeling that you can't even bother to

know or gather what's going on in other people's heads,

and so you're constantly thinking, right? Especially

imagine you have social anxiety,

and all you're thinking about is, do they like me? Did I say

that stupid thing? Oh my God, why did I say that? Oh my God,

this is this, this is this, right? It's like, how am I

coming across? I don't think this person likes me. What am I

going to say next? So fear is the enemy of open communication,

he says.

And little side quest here. I heard this quote. I don't know

who said it. I wish I did. I'm gonna Google it later.

But I once heard this quote. I like to give credit, you know

me. But I once heard this quote that basically said the biggest,

the biggest mistake in communication is making the

assumption that communication has happened.

I love that. Let me say that again. Like one of the biggest

flaws of communication or assumptions of communication is

like, or the problems with communication, meaning two

people connecting, communicating back forth, is the assumption

that communication has happened. Meaning, so often we'll say,

"But I told you, I told them, yeah. But did you follow up to

make sure that they understood what you said and what you meant

and how you said it? You know what I mean. And a lot of times,

people don't

want to put the time and energy into truly building solid

foundations in relationships. They're just like, well, you

should know I didn't mean it that way. You should whatever

you heard me, or I told you, or I sent the text. I'm like, yeah,

but you made the assumption that the other person actually got

it, that they understood you, that they knew what you meant,

that they got your tone of voice, that they understood how

important it was, right? And this is where different tools of

like mirroring,

you know, reflecting back, saying, "When you said this, did

you mean this, etc. Right? Okay.

Another one, another thing that diminishes you-it's naive

realism. So, people in the grip of naive realism-they're so

locked into their own perspective. David Brooks says

that they can't appreciate that other people might have other

really different perspectives. So when you're the kind of

person that just thinks like, "Oh, how I see things is how it

actually is, and how everybody thinks, you know.

Oh, this is a funny story. He says, "Here's an example. So

there's this old story about a man by a river, and there's a

woman standing on the other shore, the opposite shore to

him, and she says she yells out to him, "How do I get to the

other side of the river? And he yells back, "You are on the

other side of the river, because all he can think of is that his

side of the river is the side of the river, right? So I think

that's kind of funny.

Another thing that

that diminishes do is they have the lesser minds problem. I'll

sum this up quickly. It says this leads to the perception

that I'm much more complicated than you,

and that I'm deeper or more interesting or more subtle, and

I'm more high-minded, right? So we think of ourselves as like

kind of being like really special or whatever. Oh my God,

we think of ourselves as being better than others, right?

And then there's a few more of these, but I'll just do one

more. Oh, I'll do two more. Right. So objectivism. So

objectivism is when people.

How do I say this? They observe behavior. They observe behavior

and they collect data on people. And then to me, this is a way of

saying like you start to make assumptions about groups of

people, which tells me you stop looking at the individual. So

you're just like, oh, he's part of that group. He or she,

whatever they must be this way. It's like no individual people,

right? You want to be able to,

you know, be curious about not just labeling people and

sticking them in a group and then stop seeing them at all

because people do this all the time.

Essentialism is when you're quick to use stereotypes and you

categorize big, big groups of people. That's kind of simple.

But I love this one. Right, this is the last

one. Another proclivity of a diminisher is the static

mindset.

Oh my god, this is what I'm talking about. You know how on

the show I talk about so often when people try to put you in a

box. I talked about this at the beginning of this episode.

People put you in a box, they label you, and then they never

update the system. That's what he's talking about. He says some

people form a certain conception of you,

one that might have been largely accurate at one point. Right?

Trust me, people who I grew up with, right? I might still be

similar or the same in some ways, but I am really different.

But if you're not willing to know me now, even from five

friggin five minutes ago, sometimes rather than five years

ago, 15 years ago, 25 years ago, if don't assume that you know me

if you haven't had a conversation with me in a really

long time because you don't know me. What you have is some old

version of me that you like to keep wrong or

good, bad, either other, right? But you should get to know the

updated version of me.

Okay, he says some people have a certain conception of you, and

then you grew up and you changed profoundly, but those people

never updated their models to see you now for who you really

are. And you you'll see this no doubt if when you ever go to be

around your family of origin, if you have one, immediately these

roles tend to click right back into place. People make

assumptions. People say things about you, you know. And I had

to say to somebody the other day, "You don't know me.

I said, "You don't know me, and you don't look on me favorably

or highly, and you don't respect me. Like this isn't going to

work because you don't know me, and you've never bothered to get

to know me. And that's the thing that happens sometimes: is

people think they know you when they really don't, and you can't

do much about that.

So here's the thing.

Let's talk about illuminators now. I think illuminating

illumination is where it's at, and these are the people who

have a deep reverence for the individuality of other people,

and they want to see other people. They want to create a

space where the other person feels like they can be

themselves, they have a certain amount of safety, right? I

always say we can't determine if a space or another person is

safe for that other person. They and their nervous system have to

decide for themselves. But we

do, we try to do our best to like really see people, to

really listen, to lean in. That's another thing. Like lean

in when somebody is talking, like really be present.

I have met people throughout my life, and I just think when I

walk away, like holy shit, they are such a good listener. They

don't interrupt. I'm always working on getting better at not

interrupting, right? Sometimes in my enthusiasm, I can do that,

and I'm always like apologizing for it. But I'm getting better

and better, better as I get older, but I'll probably be

working on it till the day I die. But I shouldn't say that.

But hopefully, I won't be. But I'm really trying to get better

at not interrupting, especially when I get wicked excited.

So,

so illuminators, right? We're really good at wanting to see

people, love people, illuminate, like literally turn the light on

them and be like, "I see you. Like tell me more. Like who are

you? All this stuff. So illuminators,

they have think. This is who I think of as an illuminator. If

you think of mr. Rogers, okay, one of the reasons why I love

mr. Rogers is he knew how to pay full and close attention. He

knew how to be with whoever was right in front of him. He wasn't

distracted by what was going on around him. If you were in front

of him, it was as if you were the most important person in the

world. Now there are millions of us across the world who never

got to see him in person or meet him in person, but his

illumination was so strong, his light could shine on us. Even

when we sat in front of the TV at home, it was like even like

the glow of the TV light hitting us was like the glow of Mister

Rogers' love, like full force coming through the tube. You

know, so Mister Rogers is a wicked good example of that, and

I think a more.

Modern example of that is like I try to think about like TV shows

I watch or characters that I've seen whether or read about in a

book or whatever. But I have seen Ted Lasso, right? So the

new season is out. We're watching Ted Lasso, and I think

one of the things that Ted Lasso does, the character, of course,

Jason Sanikas. What one of the things he really does well with

his players, who he's coaching, is he really, really listens,

and he tries to understand where they're coming from, and he even

does it with his friend Coach Beard. Right, Beard will say

something, and sometimes he'll say something back to like just

to make sure that like they're on the same language. Now, a lot

of times their communication style is they're already letting

the other one know, like they snap at each other and they

point. They do these things where they point, like bingo,

like you got it, you're on it. So they're constantly letting

each other know

that they hit the mark, that they're getting it. But his

quality of listening is really fantastic, and

excuse me, he's a really great example of that as well.

And so let's run down some of the qualities that David Brooks

talks about. That is,

he says when you're practicing illuminationism, you're offering

a gaze that says, "I want to get to know you and be known by you.

How beautiful is that? And he says, you know. So here's

another thing. Here's another thing that illuminators do.

So I talk about this a lot with new yoga teachers, or when I've

been brought in to to do a workshop with with yoga

teachers, and I I do a workshop called "Seeing Through You Know

a Teacher's Eyes, right? Like, what what does it mean to see

through a teacher's eyes? And I will often tell them, you know,

the class starts way before the class actually officially

begins. You know, the the class begins, the the connection

begins the moment somebody comes through the front door, and

there's I'm not going to go through the list because many of

you are not yoga teachers, but I can tell you that right away,

right away, how somebody experiences you greeting them,

that's going to make a world of difference because some people

will look at you with warmth in their eyes, illumination, a

smile. They turn their gaze to you, and they make you feel

welcome and seen and happy that you're there. And other people

like act wicked annoyed, like you're interrupting them

somehow, like you're being a pain in their ass, like you

shouldn't be there or whatever. And look, I understand, right? I

want to be very clear. There are times when maybe you're trying

to set up, or you're running a little behind, or something's

going on, and there are people sometimes who come way early for

class, and you're like, I haven't even had a chance to

sweep the floor, whatever. So, like, I get it again, nuances,

but we all know what it's like to walk into a room and know

that somebody's genuinely happy to see us, right? So,

illuminators are really good at that.

Okay, and okay. So first of all, we we illuminators what one of

the things they they lead with is tenderness, right?

Tenderness. Oh, and as I'm reading this too, he he mentions

he mentions mr. Rogers in his book,

and he also talks about Rembrandt, the painter, and how

he painted people's faces, and he says tenderness. He's talking

about he describes the way that he used to to paint people.

He said he painted even the plainest faces in such a

remarkable way. It was the way that it was the way that

Rembrandt saw people that made his artwork so great,

but there's a quote in here from Nobel Prize, the Nobel Prize

novelist Olga Tokerzuk, Tokerzak, and she says,

"Tenderness is deep emotional concern about another being.

Isn't that great? Soft, kind, gentle, loving. It's so

beautiful, and the other qualities are receptivity. These

are qualities of illuminators. Receptivity, right? Your ability

to open yourself up to the experience of another person. I

think of this as like saying, "Do I know what it's like to be

in another person's shoes? Can I imagine, like, ask the question

to yourself, 'How would I feel if I was on this receiving end.

How would I feel if I were in their shoes? Receptivity, right

here you go. Active curiosity.

Active curiosity. He says, David Brooks says you want to have an

explorer's hat.

I cannot double a man hands this enough times, right? You want to

train yourself in the at of seeing others. You want to ask

questions. You want to lean in. You want to be present. You want

to pay attention. You want to reflect back that you're hearing

them. Oh my God!

And then he says, "Affection is another one, right? Affection.

It's so Important.

Oh gosh. Okay. The other thing is so affection, and then

another one is generosity, right? Your generosity of

spirit, your generosity of presence, your generosity of

attention, your generosity of love. I always say to my yoga

students, don't be don't be stingy with your breath. Don't.

Be stingy with your love, right? Be generous. Be generous, and

then having a holistic attitude. David Brooks says a great way to

miss see people is to see only a piece of them.

Oh my God! Look, you guys, being an illuminator

is something that

it's like an ideal, right? It's an ideal, and the reality of it

is is that we might not all nail it every single time. Okay,

we're not gonna not nail it. All this conversation

is, right, is reflecting on my own experiences of the past few

weeks, but just over time in general, and just really

noticing the world around me and noticing the quality of people's

interactions and recognizing that we can be, we can do and be

better. We can be better listeners. We can be better

witnesses. Right. We can be better at this whole being human

thing, and so much of what this podcast is about is just that,

right? It's like just showing up and trying to be the best

versions of ourselves that we can be. And I'm not talking

about looks maxing and having a fucking you know 90 minute

morning ritual where you. I'm I'm just talking about

knowing ourselves well enough to know how we're showing up on the

planet and being curious enough about other people, like who are

you being, and is who you say you want to be in alignment with

your actions and your choices? Are you showing up as the love

that you are?

And we're not always going to get it right. You know what I'm

saying. We're not always going to get it right, but I do

believe we all have the capacity to be illuminators. We have all

no doubt. We have all all no doubt dimmed other people's

lights by being a diminisher at some point in our life, and if

we're aware of it, hopefully we've apologized. Maybe the time

might, like they say, you know, you can't always make amends

because it won't be appropriate, or it might do more harm to try

to do that. But

this is just a little love letter from my heart to yours to

encourage you to be better listeners, to be better seers,

to be better illuminators, and maybe we can start to try to

embody some of these qualities more, and and integrate them a

little bit more to incorporate them a little bit more in our

life, in our work, in our relationships, with the way that

we talk with family members or friends or new people that we've

never met before. You know, we want to embody the skills of

illumination. You know, and the Course of Miracles is a line

that says, "You are the light of the world, and we are each of

us. Each of us are illuminated. We are each the light of the

world,

and it is a powerful thing, and it can be an incredibly healing

thing when you turn your light on another human being and you

lean in, and you really listen, and you really love them.

You're going to have deeper, deeper conversations. You're

going to have more meaningful experiences. You're going to

have

a greater depth of of care.

And again, I go back to Saint Francis, right? To be loved, not

to worry so much about about being loved as to love, you know

that's the thing. Is asking ourselves like like what's the

quality of my attention right now? What's the quality of my

presence?

And lighting another person up with the light of your love is a

beautiful thing. You know what? Honestly, it's also wicked fun.

It's also wicked fun,

and it's also important, I would say,

to have a person at least, or a couple of persons, friends in

your life, who truly see you. You know, I I have a couple of

friends. my My circle is very small. The people who

I'm in,

I would say, consistent contact with, like you know, my friends.

We do see each other, and we celebrate each other, and we

support each other, and we're not afraid to shout each other

out. I don't feel like I get less when I celebrate them or

shout out them, or you know, get wicked excited for them or

enthusiastic for them when something goes well.

And there are some people that

just are pretty stingy with their light, and they want it

all in themselves. And sometimes, sadly, they don't

even know that they do it. They don't even know that they have a

hard time illuminating others.

And a lot of times, sometimes it's a performance. It's not

really real, and we all get to learn, right, in our own way, in

our own time about those relationships, and hopefully you

won't have to learn too harshly.

But you guys, thank you so much. If you can still hear the sound

of my voice, thank you so so much for being here with me and

for listening and for hanging out. I appreciate you more than

you know.

And even though I know, like it's kind of weird, right? Like

I sit up in my.

Office like a little weirdo, just kind of like talking in a

screen. But I really do imagine when I'm doing these. Like I

always say, like oh, I'm just a little weirdo talking to myself.

Yes, but

I'm really talking to you. Like I literally, in my mind's eye

and in my hat, imagine like you when Thursday comes and you

either go to YouTube or you go to Apple or my website or a

Spotify or however you listen to this thing, right? And I imagine

like my sound of my voice coming into your ears, and it's like,

oh, we're together, like we're hanging out, and it really does

mean a lot to me that you take time out of your day and your

life, which I'm sure is busy and full, to spend a little time

together means the world to me. So remember, when if you want to

get this sent right to your email inbox every Thursday

morning, you can just go to karenkeney.com/signup.

Get on my email list. I try not to over email. I really just let

you guys know what I'm up to when I'm having workshops, when

I have openings for yoga class or Thai yoga massage, whatever

shenanigans I'm getting up to.

Just try to let you know. So that's it. So just thank you for

being here. Wherever you go, wherever you go, may you leave

the animals and the plants and the trees and the rivers and the

rocks and all the critters, just like all like this, the whole

environment and the people, the people that you come into

contact with, that you conversate with, that you're

trying to connect and communicate with, and yourself,

just try to leave it all better. Leave everybody better than how

you first found them. Wherever you go, may your presence, may

your energy, may your attitude, may your love, may your

curiosity, may the quality of your questions, may your

illumination, be a blessing. Bye.

Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show. I really

love spending some time together. Now, if you dig the

show or know someone that could benefit from this episode,

please share it with them and help me to spread the good word

and the love. And if you want to be in the know about all of my

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and join my list. It'll be wicked fun to stay in touch.

Bye.