In this special episode of the Wealth Witches podcast, recorded live during our Wealth Witches Membership, host Katelyn Magnuson sits down with Jess Gelvin, a trailblazing entrepreneur who has turned her neurodivergence into her superpower. Diagnosed with ADHD in 2015 and autism in 2023, Jess shares her candid story of navigating a world built for neurotypical people and how these experiences have profoundly influenced her entrepreneurial journey. The conversation unpacks the realities of masking and burnout, common struggles for neurodivergent individuals trying to fit into conventional business models, and highlights the liberating moment when Jess decided to embrace her true self.

Together, Katelyn and Jess discuss how to harness neurodivergent strengths in business, from creating personalized systems that align with one’s natural flow to leveraging tools like astrology and human design. Jess emphasizes the importance of getting comfortable with being “weird” and how stepping into your authenticity can attract the right clients, opportunities, and fulfillment. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to break free from traditional business norms and build a life and business that honors their unique identity.

Key Takeaways

• Embrace your neurodivergence as a strength, using it to create a business that aligns with who you truly are.
• Unmasking and living authentically can lead to deeper fulfillment and attract the right opportunities.
• Develop personalized systems and structures that support your unique needs to avoid burnout.
• Setting clear boundaries with clients and in your business is crucial for maintaining well-being.
• Get comfortable with being “weird” and showing up as your true self—this will help you connect with like-minded clients.

Guest Bio:

Jess Gelvin is the founder of Space and Soul, a business she launched in 2020 that initially focused on home organizing. Diagnosed with ADHD in 2015 and autism in 2023, Jess has since shifted her focus to working with neurodivergent clients. Through her programs like The Dub Club, individual coaching, and body doubling, Jess helps others embrace their unique strengths and navigate a world designed for neurotypical individuals. She is passionate about using tools like astrology and human design to guide her clients in finding alignment and fulfillment in both life and business. Jess lives in Loudon, New Hampshire, with her husband, son, three dogs, and a flock of chickens.

Connect with Jess:

Instagram: @thequadrightway

Website: spaceandsoulnh.com

Her Membership: NeuroDivergent Dub Club

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Music credit: Neon Fairies by Wolves 

Hello, and welcome magical creatures to the Wealth Witches podcast.

This is a place where we brew up financial empowerment and mix in a little

sprinkle of magic. I'm Katelyn Magnuson, your guide on this

enchanted journey to financial enlightenment. Here, we honor all

identities and invoke our inner witches to create holistic wealth and prosperity.

So grab your crystals, open your minds, and let's get ready to conjure some

financial clarity.

Our special guest today is Jess Galvin,

and I'm gonna give you all a little bit about her, and then we'll just

dive in. So Jess Galvin began Space and Soul as

a home organizing business in 2020, diagnosed ADHD in

2015 herself, Jess quickly found herself drawn towards working with neurodivergent

clients. As she learned more about her diagnosis in adulthood, Jess realized that the

world is set up with systems designed to work for the majority of neurotypical folks.

After her autism diagnosis in 2023, Jess began programs such as

the dub club, individual coaching, and body doubling to focus

even further on developing individual programs. Jess loves when she can

use astrology or human design to help her clients understand the flow of their strengths

rather than fighting to fit in a one size fits all society. She lives in

I'm gonna butcher this. Loudon? Loudon.

Loudon, New Hampshire with her son, husband, 3 loving dogs,

and a flock of chickens. So, Jess, super excited to have you

today and for the conversation we get to have. Me too. I'm so pumped

to be here. Thank you, and I really appreciate it. Of course, as a

fellow chicken lover, 3 3 dogs with a

bunch of chickens. I feel like we end up in the plus similar climates. We

end up having a lot of synchronicities in our lives. I

agree. I know today you were gonna chat about neurodivergence in

business, and I would love to kind of

just have a free form, like, pop in with questions. But, like, when you're talking

about, like, being neurodivergent and working in business and, like, navigating all of that,

like, how what have you done? What has your evolution been? Like, what

has it looked like? Yeah. Totally. So I would say the

evolution of it was, I think a lot of people in the neurodivergent

community are familiar with the word masking, which is, like,

kind of a thing we put on so that we can appear typical to

others, in our society, infrastructure, and how things are

done. So the beginning of my journey looked like a lot of fucking laughing.

Like, I was like, oh, okay. This is how they're all doing in

business. This is how I have to do it. Okay. They're taking these courses. They're

doing it this way. They're setting up their structures. Okay. Like, this is how you

run a business. So let me do it that way. And while

yeah. Maybe parts of it were successful, it led to an

incredible burnout in me and just really not I

didn't feel very aligned in what I was doing. I never felt

connected to the way people sell online or sell

themselves. It never felt natural or normal to me, but I was like, oh,

this is how you're supposed to do it. This is how people and business do

it. So so for me, it was, like, a ton of trial

and error, honestly. And it's book, you know,

getting my my autism diagnosis really, really catapulted me

into, like, oh, fuck all these systems. Fuck all

of you. I'm doing it this way because this is what has always felt natural

and normal to me, but I've gone against myself because

growing up as a neurodivergent girl and not even knowing it, like, I

was bullied a ton. I was made fun of. People were mean to me. People

would call me weird and all this stuff. So my whole life, I was just

trying to fit in and be like the typical people. And

that's exactly how I started my business too. It was like, oh, okay. This

is how I have to do it. Just like in school, I did. Well, this

is how all the other girls are doing it. Okay. That's how I should be.

It was, like, totally being back in, like, you know, the 5th grade playground

again. Like, okay. What are they doing? Alright. That's how I'll do it so that

I can appear normal. So whatever it needs to be, you

know? So I think, like, that's

important to talk about because I also witness a lot of

people in their businesses. I would I call it,

like, you know, operating from their not self. You know, we we all do

it. We operate in a way that we think we're supposed to be or think

we should be. And then

what what's what's hard is that the world praises

us for our not selves. They praise us for overworking,

overdoing, go go go, never stopping, like, being

the the badass CEO, like, put yourself out there. No like,

we're praised for that. Right? So it makes us wanna, oh, I

should keep doing that. The problem with that is that doesn't end. Like, that's just

a never ending uphill battle. And so

what happens, I think, too with the even neurotypical people, but

neurodiversity people is we burn out, man. Looking hardcore.

We're trying so hard to fit in a society that isn't built for us. The

systems and structures are don't don't intake us at

all. And then we're trying to, like, run our our regular lives,

our homes, our families, all this other stuff while trying to appear

normal in business. And it really did get

to a point where I was like, I can't keep living like this. I'm gonna

die. Like, I'm gonna die if I keep living like this. And I

think having, you know, that the diagnosis

really did give me that that, like, oh, right. This is who

I am. Like, oh, now I can understand myself in a more

aligned way and make choices and decisions, not only in my regular

life, but in my business that accommodate me. And I'm

not trying to push through mud all the time just to try and

get the quote or get this or whatever it is in

business.So yeah.

I'm really curious for you because I know we're gonna be, like, talking about harnessing

neurodivergence for entrepreneurs, but, like, what were

some of the changes that you started making or whether it was mindset shifts or,

like, actual changes in, like, how you operated your business or how you did your

sales or any like, what did that look like for you when you were like,

fuck. Why am I doing everything in a way that doesn't work for me?

Yeah. So, and this is this is probably where I I would tie in

my my studies within, astrology and human

design was it really helped me. Like, you know, I

got the diagnosis, then I'm like, well, how do I support myself now?

Right? And so really learning about my astrology and my human

design has been so significant in how

I operate in my daily life within my family and in my

business. Like, those pulls that I've always had,

I now lean into them as opposed to being like, oh, that's rap. That's wrong.

That's weird. Don't do that. Now I'm like, oh, how weird can we

get? Like, let's get weirder. Like, what is lighting me up? What feels

good? Where's my excitement taking me as opposed to, like,

what structure and system is right for this? Like, how do you sell this?

You have to follow this 10 step system. Like, that's, like, a 100%

not how I operate and was really affirmed in that

in my human design chart and in my astrology chart. And so

what I've really used those as tools within my regular

life and my business to make me just feel,

I feel so much happier. Things are more fun. And I

think that's when things really when you're more

aligned in who you are, like, that's when things come in.

And so people who are watching this may or may not know anything

about human design, but, you know, there's different energy types when you have

different profile of range, and it gets very, very detailed. But you

can do a lot with your life just knowing your energy type

and your profile line. Because your energy type will tell you about your

strategy and authority, which is kind of how you're meant to make decisions

through life. And how awesome is that? Are we always wondering, like,

well, how the fuck am I supposed to know how to do this? Well, like,

human design gives you those tools to be like, oh. And so for me, like,

I am a manifesting generator, and so my strategy and authority

is waiting to respond and following my sacral.

And so having those two points, I

now can do things. And when things come to me and I

respond to them either with, like, an opening uh-huh or

like a uh-uh. Like, those are my telltale signs on whether I should do

something or not. I don't have to go into my head and think about all

the things that are wrong and right with it. I just follow what my body

says now. And I think so many of us are conditioned

out of our bodies very, very young. We're taught not to trust ourselves, our

instincts, our intuitions. We're pulled out of that. We're told to go in the

mind and think about everything in the logical, and that's a

100% not how we're supposed to do it. We're supposed to get in the

body, feel what it's telling you. Like, our bodies know more

than our brains. And so I've been listening to that

so much more, and I've been having so much more fun in my

business. I don't feel so stressed out and worried that, oh, is

this gonna work out? Am I gonna get this? Am I gonna get that? Like,

I've been experimenting so much more with things.

And it's like I feel like it's niched me out

a lot, but, like, that's the point. Like, we all are meant to have

our own little niches. Like, there's, like, a huge wide world out there. Like, we're

not all meant to be the same. We're all so different. And I think,

like, me now loving that part about me and

not hiding it away or making myself feel shame about it

Because the more I embody who I truly am, the more the right people

come to me, the more I have to respond to. And, like, I've

just been living that. Like, that's my experience. That's not me just talking shit.

Like, that's what I've been living is I've been in a more aligned

place following my strategy and authority and, like, cool things have come

through. And I've felt more aligned in my relationship and my

friendships and with the clients I work with, all of

that. And so I just, like,

get weird and, again, get weirder and, like, don't stop. Like, I

feel like that's a big part of the neurodivergent brain is we think so

differently, and that's what's so beautiful about us. A neurotypical

person looks at something and that's all they see, but we see so much

more. What we see and our brains just can

articulate and come up with things and we're we're super creative. And I feel

like where we're going in the shift of our world,

people are gonna be seeking out neurodivergent people for things.

Our systems and structures need to change. I don't think there's any doubt in that.

And we look at our world and how fucked up it is. Like, people are

gonna be seeking out neurodivergence to make those changes and to make things

more accessible and more accountable and and just better

for everybody. I really feel like the entire

quote from this needs to be the get weird and then get weirder.

Yeah. That's that's definitely something that every time I I'm making

a really big change that you know about Jess that I haven't announced, like, publicly

to people yet. Mhmm. And with it comes, like, this terrifying

sort of, like, lifting up the curtain or bay whatever we wanna call it.

Right? Unveiling. And

it's it's gotten to the point, and this is how I knew that I couldn't

wait any longer where it was, like, actively more stressful or anxiety

inducing to keep that hidden or separated

than it was to start incorporating it. And so for a long time, I was

like, oh god. Like, what are people gonna think? I literally had a

conversation with a newer client the other day that I

found out we were going to the same Taylor Swift concert on the same day

in Lisbon. Oh my god. By Nave. She's

gonna be watching the replay of this because we were talking about, like, the group

and everything that was going on, and she was like, oh my god. That's so

awesome. And it's just not a traditional, like, thing that you would

expect from your accountant, right, to have, like, these other multifaceted

interests. And, like, we were talking about astrology, and it was it was such an

interesting conversation to have. Like, we would have never had that conversation. She probably would

have never ended up in our sphere if I wasn't showing up because she had

reached out over a year ago, ended up not coming on on this as a

client, reached back out, and then came on in, like, less than 3 days.

And there's been a really big difference in, like, how I show up

over the last year and getting I'm not as weird as I want to

be publicly yet, but a lot of times it's just because I'm tired of thinking.

I I don't wanna I don't wanna talk to them that it's like, I'm living

my life. It is what it is. You're a projector, and that's totally fine. You

don't have to work. You're not here to work, so I validate that for you.

Thank you. But, yeah, the weirder that I get and the more the more comfort

that's not even that I'm getting weirder. It's that I'm more comfortable with my weirdness

being visible and public and not something that I need

to feel shame around or less than. And

having friends around me and clients around me and colleagues and team members,

like, not only validate that, but that see that I have value

in my unique experience. And I think that so many of us have value in

our unique experience, but we're so, like, fucking in our head about it or,

like, what are they gonna think? Or, like, this isn't the way it's been done.

Oh, like, let's throw some new ideas out there. Like, let's see what, you know,

actually works for us or our clients or whomever. Because, like, the way we do

things may not work for someone else, but the clients that work with us love

working with us because we have similar values or shared, you know, like, ways that

we operate. Yep. Absolutely. I totally agree. I think that's,

like, such a a great point too. It's, like, when we get more

comfortable within ourselves, the other people who are comfortable

within their selves get drawn to us in a way. And so then

it's like it's almost like this this, like, uplevel of, like, your

frequency and, like, what the work you're doing in the world, and you're meeting like

minded people on that level. I feel like I see a lot of things

in levels and frequencies. That's, like, how I can, like, read people a lot. It's

just like how my brain works, and I just feel like, oh, I've up

leveled, so, like, my people up level. Like, it just it's

a natural ascension. I feel like if people are true to themselves,

like, naturally ascend together, which I've experienced

within my friends and family as I've done keep continue to do the

work, keep opening up, keep unmasking. I see the

benefits of it. Like, not to say it's not easy. Like,

it's really fucking hard, and I have challenges, and I still have meltdowns. And,

like, things are really hard, but I feel like my

baseline is so much easier to get to now. Whereas

before, I could never get there. I could never just be like

me. And now I feel way more comfortable just

even, you know, going out places. Like, my friends have been

so lovely and accommodating, just knowing, like, some of the things that may be hard

for me when we go out or I may need to leave earlier. I may

need to be wearing my earbuds or have some sort of something with

but even just me speaking that stuff out now where I never would have before

because I felt like, oh my god. I'm gonna be the weird one. I'm gonna

be a guardian. I'm gonna I might Yeah. Like it was with me with some

fucking fidget toy and, like, my headphones on. Like, but

now I I can be, like, much more

myself when I have those accommodations in place. And I

haven't had anybody say anything to me since I've started

opening. And that's, I think, the other thing that would even be helpful for my

younger self to know. I was so scared of being, like, can

I do these things? Like, are people gonna say something? Literally, no one has

said anything. Everyone that I have opened up to about it

or needed accommodation with has been nothing but kind,

generous, and thoughtful with it. Like, so that for me just

helps create that in my brain where I'm like, okay, new pathway.

Like, not everybody wants to hurt you. Not everybody, like,

thinks you're bad or dumb or wrong. Like so it's, like, creating this whole new

pathway now of, like, oh, people can be understanding and can

be accommodating and can understand this. And I'm not

a total complete, like, alien. I mean, I am, but, like, you know,

there's others there's many of us. I'm not the only one. You know? And I

think that's also really helpful in, like,

how there's way more people talking about neurodivergent and, like,

what it looks like and how it's a spectrum. There's no

one person that is the same from the next. And I think that's like

that in business. No one business is the same from

the next one. And so, applying things like that to my

business is, like, just makes sense to me. Like, you know?

Well and that's something that I'm I'm curious too, some of the changes that you've

had even in the last, like, 6 months because I've gotten more

comfortable with the boundaries that I've set. There's also a lot of, like,

really unique things that we did in business before I ever had, like, team

members and things that I've doubled down on. Like, one of the big

things for me is calls. I love doing calls.

Calls also require a lot of me, both mentally,

emotionally, like to show up and to do. So calls are limited.

Calls are on certain days. Like, there are really strict parameters that I set

for myself every once in a great while.

I will push those boundaries, and then I am

promptly reminded of why those boundaries were there in the first place.

And every now and then, we'll have a prospective client, you know, push back on

something or, oh, let's just hop on a quick call. And that's that's not

how I operate. And I don't have to give a reason for it, but we

have, a couple of softwares

that we work with that have quarterly check-in requirements.

I've worked for corporate companies. I understand the quarterly check-in requirement. I

understand that it's the box that tick. They would call me for

these quarterly check ins. I don't answer unscheduled calls

for people that I don't know. I very rarely even answer scheduled calls or

calls of people I know. And they call, and then they'd send me an email.

They're like, hey. We tried to call you. You didn't pick up. I'm like, we're

gonna go over this. Number 1, can you just tell me

why and I I was like I literally was like, if this is just a

quarterly check off, let me know that. I understand. I will make time for

this. It can be a 5 minute, yep, everything's good so that you can satisfy

your quota. I get it. You're working a job, whatever. However, I

will never answer your call if it is not scheduled

at a set time ahead. And I finally got

to the point where I was chatting with someone, and they were like, oh, hey.

It's time to have our call. And I finally was like, hey. I'm autistic. This

is how I do things. I'll send you a loom. Mhmm. And if And if

we need to have a call, we could schedule something in the future. But I

don't like, there is nothing last minute. There is none like, first of all, there's

no urgency in the conversation that we're having here. Right. Right. And

finally saying that, I I actually got because, basically, you just used to be like,

this is how I do business. This is what works best for me. And it

was interesting to finally say, like, I'm autistic. This is how I operate. And

the response that I got was, like, I actually really love that. Like, thanks so

much for setting that boundary. Like, yep. We'll listen. I was like, first of all,

it should have been fine regardless whether I said that, but it was also nice

to have it received so well. But that's one of the big things that, like,

I've done in my business is we I I have to limit calls.

It doesn't mean my whole team has to limit calls. And so that's something that,

like, we've been navigating, which is really interesting because I have several team members that

are like, oh, yeah. I'll just give them a ring. We we

haven't done it this way. Like, we we can't I can't do that. Like, I

can't operate that way. And so, like, setting, like, how does that evolve as we

have new team members come in and, like, what does it look like? And as

I phase out of a lot of the day to day, it's less and less

of an issue, but it's still part of the dialogue to be having for, like,

how we're operating and, like, how we're showing up for clients. So is

there are there certain things that you have done in business outside of, like, being

weird, showing up authentically, like, really, you know, unmasking and unburying

yourself? But are there things that you do in business that you think

are different than ways, like, you've been told to do?

Yeah. So now when I get new leads,

so, like, for my organizing clients, there's always a a

call, and then there's an in home consultation. And then, you

know, it goes from there. In the past, I would do

and, like, the generally, it's to get a a feel for the person. You know?

But now it's like a very, like, I listen hardcore

to my sacral, and I'm with that person now. Or before, I would be like,

oh, I have to do it because they need me. Like, they need me. I

gotta do it. You know? Not necessarily working with the most aligned clients.

And now it's just like, if I get a bad vibe, it's like,

no. It's a no. I have my schedule booked. Like, I can't.

And if anything feels off to me, I've listened to it now where before I'd

be like, oh, you're fine. Like, just push through. There's always that push through.

Just help the client, do things for the client. I

don't I don't do that anymore. I I really,

feel like I, like, have been more attuned to, like, what

my body is telling me, what the right people are. And despite, like, yeah,

in business, we wanna make money. Like, of course, I wanna make money, but, like,

not at the expense of myself. Not for a situation where I'm

not gonna feel like I can be myself or feel supported or any

of that. I don't put myself on the line anymore

for money. And I know not everyone that

that maybe that sounds privileged too. I know not everyone has that ability,

but I it's it's just a a no for me. Like, I won't

put myself on the line anymore for anyone else. I'm

much more vocal about how I work and do

things. Like, same thing. Like, I'm I hate being on phone

calls. Like, it's terrible. Like, my husband is always laughing at me. And I'm

like, I got I'll get off the phone. He's like, what the fuck do you

see on that call? Like, I don't know. I'm just not

it's hard for me. But, like, I feel like I'm

much better about, creating the accommodations for my

self now and speaking them out and same thing, like, letting people know,

like, hey. I'm autistic. I understand things differently. I process

information differently. I do things differently. Like, I need

x, y, and z. I've had you know, I've reached out

to people on, like, how I can be, like, communicating through email is

is very difficult for me. So, like and people I work with, I'll

ask them, can you, like, bullet things for me? You know, like, what I need

to do. Writing a big, long email, I won't read it. It's too much.

Like, there's definitely, like, some dyslexia going on here. So, like,

it's it's hard. It takes a lot of brainpower to, like, go through a rebound

and be like, what are they asking? I asked for blunt communication.

Like, speak to me bluntly. Don't give me a riddle or a roundabout way.

Just say what you mean and and, like, I'm not offended.

So many people are so offended by blunt conversation.

That's, like, been something I've always been, like, me it's something me and my husband

talk about frequently. And I'm like, I don't understand why you wouldn't just say this.

And he's like, yeah. That's just, like, not how people talk. And I'm like, the

why? That's what you mean. So why don't you just say that?

So, like, there's still things that are very confusing to me. Like,

I'm I'm pretty educated in all of this, and I understand how I work. But

I'm still, like a lot of times, I'm like, I don't think it's the neurodivergence

that's weird. I think it's the neurotypical people that are weird. Like, why can't you

just say Just say what you mean? Yeah. Just say it. Like, why you

know? So, yeah, I would say, like,

being more honest and upfront about how I work and

what I need from people, and also, like, understanding,

how other people work. And that's, like, another re like, why I like to

bring human design and astrology into into my business because when I'm

working with someone, how I do something isn't gonna be the right way for

them. They are entirely different entity and work in completely different way. And

so I like to use those tools so that I can better support them

for how do they work. Because even if they're not divergent, you're gonna

be you're gonna operate different than me. Like, you're a projector. I'm an infesting

generator. We operate different. We have a lot of similarities, but we're meant to operate

completely different. So, like, I feel like that's so important to

know, when working with people, like and I

feel like a lot in the online community, there's, like, a one way of doing

something. This is the way to make this is the way to do this.

This is the way to do that, and I call bullshit on that. That's your

way. But there are millions of ways to do that, and we

are also different. We're also meant to operate

differently. And so that's what I really like talk about and

empower with my clients is like, hey, this is how I do things,

but, like, they might look different for you. Like, you might do

it this way or you could try it this way. And that's why, like, trial

and error is a huge part of my life. Like, I try everything

because I like to know all the ways something can be done, not

just one way. I don't believe in a one size fits all. I don't think

there's one way, one thing everyone should

do or everyone should be or how they there's it's just that's

crazy to me. So I like to

really, like, help people feel empowered in their ability to

create systems and things that work for

them. Despite what everyone online is telling you, this is the way to

do it. I call bullshit on that every single time.

You know? No. I think it's so frequent for someone to because they're trying to

sell something. Right? Or they're trying to say, like, my way is the right way.

Come by the I'll show you. And I think that something that

I've done in the I don't know, 10 almost 10 years that I think I've

been in business is pull the things that work for me from it. Like,

you don't you don't need to do things exact and what worked

for me 9 years ago doesn't necessarily work

for me today. And so having like, giving myself permission to change

things, update things, like like you're saying, test stuff, try it

out. Does it work this way? Like, do we like communicating?

Like, does do I feel better? Am I showing up? Like, are my clients enjoying

this? Like, how is this working? And I think that that can

make such a big difference for really any industry is

assessing, like, not only, like because we talk about the finances a lot. Right? Like,

not only looking at the finances of it. Like, are you charging appropriately

for what you're doing? Like, is it supporting your life?

Are you working in a way that best serves you and whoever you're

working with? Like, what needs to be tweaked there? What's taking a long time? And,

like, it might be a software thing. Cool. But, like,

I think assessing the deeper root of that. Like, do you need the software,

or does something in the way that you're operating needs needs to change?

Like, do you wanna keep doing it this way?

Yeah. Absolutely. No. I think that's great. It's just like offering a

different perspective or a different tool on something. Like, if something

is not working, what else can you try? Like, that's I don't ever

see anything as a failure to me. Like, I just always see

everything as a learning experience. Oh, I tried this. Okay. This didn't work out. Let's

try this. Let's try this. Like, it's not I tried this and failed. That's it.

It's like, no. You just keep going. You just keep trying shit until you find

the things that work, but that's always gonna evolve too. In everything,

in your life, in your business, what works now, like you said, isn't necessarily

gonna work 10 years from now or a year from now or a month from

now. You don't know. But, like, I just always feel like you have to keep

trying. Like, as long as that feels right for you to in your business and,

like, feel excited and let up by it, like, yeah, just try

something else. Like, who cares if it didn't work out? Like, I'm

trialing airing a lot of stuff right now and, like, something's not working out. But,

like, it's still fun for me. Like, I still really enjoy it, and it lights

me up. So I'm still going with it. So, like, I think as long as

those feelings are there, then who keeps a shit? Just

keep doing it,you know? Well and I think too, if we're

because I've experienced this. If we're no longer feeling

excited about something, Are you assessing?

Like, are you looking at what you're doing? Like, what needs to change? Do you

need to scrap this altogether? Do you need to tweak it? Is you

know, like, what needs to change here for you to be excited about it?

Because I know that in training with a lot of clients, like,

one, they feel like if there's and everyone sells differently. Like, I feel really comfortable

in the way that I sell when I do show up to sell. For the

most part, we're totally referral based, which is fantastic for someone that

doesn't wanna be out here fucking their services every day of

the week. But when I want to and I'm excited to do it, I

show up in the way that I show up, and it has worked really well.

But a lot of clients would be like, oh, I feel like I've talked about

that 700 times. You gotta be comfortable. Like, if you want

to really push it and sell it, it needs to be something that you're excited

about. It needs to be something that you want to be doing because you do

generally need to talk about it more times than you think you need to talk

about it. And so if you have it where you're excited and you can, you

know, not even necessarily hyperfocus on it, but

be excited and be wanted to show. Like, it makes it so much easier to

be selling and to feel good about what you're selling because you're excited to be

doing the thing or knowing that, like, you get to talk about this is fun

instead of, like, yep. Come do this thing with me that I know I have

to show up here and that I'm gonna be tired about talking about 3 days

from now. Yeah. Absolutely. I think, like, the energy you put behind

it will show what how it does. Like, if I create a

program and I show up, like, once a week being like, hey. I'm doing this

thing. You wanna join? No one's gonna wanna fucking join that. Like, I don't wanna

join. That sounds awful. So, like, I need to create things that I

like, essentially, I create things that I need so that I'm

excited about it because, like, that's that's how it works. I I

no longer create for the other. And I think that's another thing in my

business, but I'm like, oh, this is what they need. This is what people need.

And now it's like, what do I need? That's what I'm gonna create, and the

other people that need that too will come. And that ensures that the

energy behind it is always embodied and always right and always

mine. And so I think that's the other thing is, like, we're told,

like, your client's nest, your client's and, yes, absolutely. There's a part that we

need help our clients, but it's us first. Like, we come first. And I

think, especially women in this society, we put ourselves at

the bottom of the list all the time, and that is something that I drastically

changed over the past few years is, like, I am first. How I

feel is first above anything else, And that has been

a crucial step in in me feeling the way I do now.

I just feel so much better. I don't have so much on my

shoulders. I don't feel so much anxiety burning in my body all the time. I

don't feel like I have so much on me. I'm like, okay. What

do I need right now? Okay. I need to go sit down. I need to

go listen to music. I need to go outside. I need to whatever, smoke a

joint. Whatever it is, I do that, and

then I can focus on everything else. But if I'm not in my

body, if I'm not having what's my business isn't gonna do well. And

that's what I've really seen is the more I've been taking care of myself,

I feel better in wanting to sell in my business now. Where before I was

like, I don't wanna sell. Like, that's weird. And now I'm like,

no, I love this. This is cool. Like, I'm putting this out there because, like,

I'm proud of this and this makes me feel good.

No. I think that too it's

one of my biggest gripes is that for so many

women in particular, they're encouraged to fill their cup

so that they can you can't pour from an empty cup. And what

bothers me so much about that is the expectation of it's the

value that you have to provide others that means

you should be taking care of yourself. And that makes me

really stabby because you should be able or should be

prioritizing filling your own top, taking care of yourself simply because you

deserve to exist as a whole human being. And,

yes, sure. Does that mean you can quote pour out of your cup

or help others? Should that be something that you're doing? Cool. But it also means

that, like, other people around you should be doing the same thing. You're not

just some, like, oh, I'm gonna go to the spa today so that I can

then go do all of the things for my husband and family around the house.

Yes. Good stuff to go. Should work. No. Like, you're you're not you're

solely for the value you provide to society. That is,

such a great point to make, and I feel like that is hard conditioning. A

lot of us women feel is that like and I am a

100% have felt that most of my life is I I've got to be

all these things. So for everyone, I've gotta make everyone happy and do everything

for everyone else, and they need me and this and that. Now I'm just like,

I'm just taking care of me. And by me taking care of me,

other people will see that example and learn to take care of them. Like,

by me taking care of me, Renee, my son learns how to take care of

himself and to put himself first. Not me taking care of my son and doing

everything for him. That he's not gonna learn way. He's gonna learn through watching.

And I think that goes for everything, like your friends. Like, when you see your

friends really setting boundaries and standing up for themselves, are you like,

yes, girl. Like, I want that. I want that. Right? You're never,

like, ew. You're, like, that's right. Like, it's empowering. Like, you

get, it's, like, almost like chilled in your body when you see people do that

because we're conditioned not to. Like, we're told to, like, put

everyone above ourselves. So when I see other women out there setting

hardcore boundaries because they're putting themselves first, I'm like, yes.

That's why I wanna be around her. I wanna be in her group. Like, I

wanna know her. Like, because that's what I'm always trying to do is that next

level of how my can I take care of myself even more, even better? Because

every time I do, just good things happen. I feel

better. People around me better. I feel more successful. I feel more

happy and satisfied. You know? So that's where I go

after now. I'm not going after the people who make promises on how you can

make this much money or do this. I'm like, who are the people who are

fully embodied? Who are the people that are taking the most care of themselves?

Who are the people that are putting up the most boundaries? Those are the people

I wanna be around. Those are the rooms I wanna be in. Those are the

people I wanna learn from, You know? Mhmm. No. I

I was modeled. I think a lot of us were modeled. And I even grew

up in, like, a less gender role traditional household. You know, my parents would both

work. My parents would both cook. My parents would, you know, both stay at home

with us depending like, there there was a lot of flexibility there, but

it was still so interesting. I think you and I have chatted about this, but

it was so interesting to see my dad continue making adult friendships when

they moved in their thirties to a different state. And my mom essentially

not making any friends until she's now in her late

fifties. And in the last 10 years,

she started to develop friendships again or relationship. No one

told her that she couldn't, but my dad would,

hey. Finish up the job through the day. I'm gonna go grab beers with the

guys. Granted, my mom worked a lot of times, like, a longer shift because she

was a nurse for a long time, so she may have just been tired. She

may have wanted to come home, but she and I have even had the conversation

because now in her fifties, she's been prioritizing herself. She wakes up every

morning. She does a meditation app. And, you know, like, lays

like, does not even get edited so funny. My dad will be like, why do

you need to meditate? You just slept 8 hours. Like, that's my meditation.

And if you just she stands by it, and she does it. And it's been

so nice to see her do that because for years years years, like, I started

prioritizing my well-being before I ever saw it modeled for me by any

of the women in my family because they've grown up or they've been

conditioned to care for everyone around them and prioritize

everyone around them. And I did that for a long time in my

twenties. David didn't give a shit. David didn't expect any of that

of me. And when I finally stepped back and

allowed allowed him to contribute and

to help and to do things. Guess what? He's a fully

capable adult, just like I am. Yeah.

Oh, nice. I know. Right? Oh, my god. And, like, don't you feel so much

better, like, not having a run around doing everything? And then to, like,

show you that other people can support and love on you in that way. Like,

it's like, oh, this exists. Like, this is real. Like,

I'm totally in St. Paul. Like, I would never modeled how to take care of

myself. Like, I had to be that for myself. Like, I never had

any examples of what it was like to take care of yourself or what

that looked like with women. So it really was like you know,

once I had my son, I was like you know, for the first few years

of of motherhood, I was just like a psychotic, let

me do everything. Let me take care of it. We're just full on in it.

And, like, me looking back at myself now, and I'm like, wow. How did I

do all of that? Like, I couldn't do an eighth of that now because I

have so much structure and boundaries in it now. But it really was,

again, a lot of trial and error of, like, I'm gonna not take

care of myself at all to I'm gonna take so much care of myself now.

Right? And all the in between. But having to be the

example for myself because there weren't any. You

know? No. And that's, I think, where

so much of like, the whole journey of embracing. It's not it's

not just the neurodivergence. Right? But it's, like, the neurodivergence plus, like, the journey of

being, you know, a woman and, like, a business owner and an entrepreneur.

And so many of the members

and, like, clients and people that are in our spheres are

experiencing such an interesting situ like, such a similar situation. Right? Like

and I think being being in a place where it's being talked about

more is normalizing having the conversation and normalizing. Relationship

on a pedestal.

But I didn't know that, like, the marriage that I have now

could be a marriage that was possible, could be a marriage that or a partnership

that, like, existed because I didn't see it modeled. And

so having conversations with friends of, like, what do you

mean you can't go away for a week and, like,

they can't exit? Like, I'm I'm so confused by that, or, like, they

can't go grocery shopping or put a meal together or feed themselves. Like, I I

posted on Instagram the other day. Like, I just got home from a 3 week

trip where David stayed home. Everyone is alive. The

house is clean. The groceries are picked up. He got my favorite current

hyperfixation food so that I was set, and then,

like, prepped everything in the house before he left for 5 days

because he knows that I have a really tough time with the animals on my

own after about 4 days. And so, like and then I'm busy. So, like, what

could he do to take the load off of me while he was gone without

ever being asked? Yeah. And then for me to be,

like when he's asking me, do you want the chicken cut? And do you want

me to, like, pull this out and get it cut up for you for the

week? And my knee jerk reaction being, it's fine. I can do it. And

I didn't say it, and I was like, yes. That would be great.

And that's such an uncomfortable thing to, like, step into and be like, nope. It's

okay. I can allow myself to be taken care of, and there's not gonna be

the, well, I did this for you or the I always do the x y

z. There's none of that. Like, it's just I have capacity and I'm

willing and able to do this. Do you want this thing?

And, like, how beautiful is that? I think, like, me and my

husband have similar experience of, like, creating a marriage

that we've never seen before. And it's been a lot of,

like, me putting projections on him because I

didn't grow up with a family parent. I grew up with a single mom. So,

like, the ways I saw family modeled was through TV.

So I grew up thinking that, you know, the moms are home doing

everything, the dads went to work, and, like, you know, you see the

dads modeled as, like, these incapable people. And I feel like that's such

a thing I feel like women participate into where

we're like, our husbands are so incapable. They can't do this. They

can't. And I've never felt that way about my husband. I'm like,

you're even more than capable of doing all the things that I do. I've never

been like, oh, we can't do that or in this or you know, and and

it seem I've always felt like when people talk about their their husband and

so we can't cook dinner. I can't leave the baby with him.

That was always, like, a weird one where I'm like, what? What?

Like, it's just confusing, but it's like us having to be

the examples that we needed. And I think that's so much of,

like, a lot of the healing I've done for myself and my inner child

is being what I needed when I was a little girl, when I

was a young girl, when I was a teenage girl, when I was a young

girl in my twenties, like, what does she need? What type of models did she

need? What type of empowerment did she and, like, being

that and, like, right, trusting in with your partner,

having open communication, understanding that you both work

differently and how to help each other. And it isn't

this, like, I did this, you did that. Like, it's not a tit for a

tat. It's just like a beautiful, like, harmony of each other. Like like you

said, I have the capacity, so I'm gonna do this. Like, on

days when I'm having a hard day, like, I had a full on, like, fucking

meltdown this year. It was a terrible day. And, like, my husband just held space

for me. He knew that it was hard. He didn't be like, what's wrong with

you or whatever. He's like he understood it, didn't things he needed to

do to, like, help out and, like, took a load off of me so I

could just work through it. And I feel like I was

never modeled that. I didn't know that type of man could exist. I

didn't know a man holds space for you like that and take care of you

and love you and not want something in return, except for my

happiness. Like, what? Like, that is create

that's not displayed really in the movie. They don't really see that type

of partnership displayed. And so I feel

like I feel like both of us are probably creating

things that we really needed and like, but also like

showing other people with possible. Like, when you communicate openly

with someone about your needs and wants, and they love you, like, most likely, they're

gonna meet you where you're at and try and understand how they can better meet

your needs. Like, just with honesty, like and I

have found that so much to be true, and a lot of my unmasking is

really asking for what I need. I was so afraid to in the

past. And now when I ask for what my need my needs are, my, like,

my husband meets me with open arms. Like, yes. Absolutely. Like, I understand

you. I love you. Let me do those things for you. And I'm over here

like, oh my god. Like, still. And we've been together 15 years,

and I still am like, oh, this is real. Like, this is still

happening. You know? Because it's just not it's not the norm. It's not you

see break free a lot. It's not I thought it was platonic

friendships too that, like, showing up and

just you and I were talking before this, but one of my really good

friends, like, it's such a low requirement

friendship and that she knows that bit in general, she texts me.

She's probably not gonna hear from me. If she schedules a call with

me yes. Schedules a call with me. That I

I love to talk to her, but that I'm best in person and that, like,

we can check-in, and she'll be like, hey, buddy. How are you feeling? Like, do

you need to take the day off? You're like, you're you're feeling you seem a

little drained, and it's fine. Like, there is no like, I can

choose to not go on an excursion or just like, hey. I'm gonna go sit

in my room for the night, and it's fine. And, like, she can

do whatever she wants to do, and there's no resentment harbored. There's no, like

it it's just how we're operating, like, how we need to be our

most content, happiest, nourished selves. And, like, why

wouldn't a friend want that for you? And if they don't want it for you,

then they're probably not a friend. Right. Totally.

I totally agree. And I think, like, yeah, like,

being open in your friendship. Like, I just did a reel the other day

about things that my friends do to help support me, like, as

as an autistic and, like, you know, not making me feel bad when I need

to, like, cancel last minute. Like, my friends are super understanding about, like, my sensory

needs and super understanding of, like, I need to kinda know about the

place before we go to the place. I kinda need the details. I need to

know, like, and so It's not a ride or die. I'm aware of what you're

thinking. Yeah. Right. Right. So it's like,

it's felt really it's helped me open up

more having people be so open to

my needs, and that's something, like, I didn't ever think was

possible. I thought I was gonna have to live in suffering my whole life

and having to fit in to everyone else's molds.

And now I realize, oh, no. I don't. Like, there are people

around me that are open and willing to to help me and, like,

love me and care for me and care about my comfort. And so

that has felt really great because I've thought this whole

time that that wasn't gonna be the case. You know, I've created stories in my

head just based off past experience. I think it's, like,

needing to gain the new experience in this new way for my brain

to really take it in and be like, oh, this is a pattern now. This

is what you can expect now because I still am expecting

things from the past. So it's like, just keep doing it. Keep

doing the things that feel a little scary, that feel uncomfortable. Asking for

accommodations aren't easy. Like, it's hard when I'm like, hey.

I'm autistic. Can you blah blah blah blah blah? You know? Like, that's not

always easy. Like but I have found the more I do

it, the easier it is, and I do get accommodations in place

that make me feel much more at ease and not

so rankled up in a tight anxiety ball. And then I need to spend 3

days in bed because I've overstimulated myself. You

know? Exactly. I that's

the more I think for anyone that's, like, a business

owner too that's in here because I think everyone that would be in here and

listening to this would be a business owner, but that's where,

like, connecting with clients or showing up as yourself. Like, literally,

I had a call before this with clients that I adore,

and they took a hot second to tell me, like, hey. What

you posted about your husband, like, I wanted to just give you kudos on that.

Like, it was so nice to read and hear. Because I was like, oh, god.

This is corny. Like, again, feeling I'm I'm putting, like, this is

better than other people's or this is what and, like, all this shit that I

tell myself in my head. And when you show up, it's really

nice to see. Like, I'm not expecting anyone to kudos, you know, or whatever. And,

like, Diva didn't even see any of it because he doesn't ever watch my stories.

And so I know he didn't see it. So it wasn't there for him. It

was just there to, like, normalize that, like, again, this exists, and it's

fine. And like, I sometimes feel like

I'm not bringing enough to the table, but there's never, like, we have to

like, we each bring very different things to the table. But I think

that when you're showing up as who you are, even if it

feels corny or cheesy or uncomfortable or cringey,

there are I got multiple comments from people or private messages

or in person on Zooms, like, hey, that was really powerful. And, like, I'm so

glad that you have that and, like, you posted about it. Like, tell me more

or, like, you know, I wanna know how you got comfortable, like, allowing someone

to do things for you or help you. And I was like, oh, cool. Okay.

Like, there's more there's more people out there that, like, value this. It's just it's

so nice to have people in my sphere, whatever,

that, like, see that and value that and want that. And you

don't get that if you don't talk about it. A 100%. I

100% agree. And I think, like, that's such a a great example of, like,

you were sharing something in your life that, like, you didn't have examples

of. Like, you created that. Like, you created that. And, like, it's it's

a disservice not to share it because there's someone out there

that doesn't know that exists. Like, your younger version didn't know that

was that that didn't exist. My younger version didn't know it. So it's

like, I see those little moments as a disservice to not

share because, like, the things I share about my private life, and I'm very

open about a lot of things. It's all for my inner child. It's all for

that younger version of myself because I needed an example of who I

am today back then. Like, she needed that. And so

by me sharing those things, it's like, it totally like, I don't

care anymore, like, what anyone else thinks about it. Like, the negativity

doesn't exist for me because I'm doing it for me. And I think

that's the the part where it just feels so natural now where I'm not like,

oh, I should share this because this is what people will like. I'm like, I'm

sharing this because I fucking like it. And it means something to me, and it's

important to me. And so that's just like sharing

from, like, a true self place. And, like, you can't argue with that.

You know? Right. I love that so much.

Oh, okay. I'm gonna totally put you on the spot. Please do not feel obligated.

Hey. There is anything that you could tell

neurodivergent business owners or entrepreneurs or people that suspect that

they are. Like, what I I feel like I know what it's going to be,

but what would you, like, leave them with as a parting thought?

It just with anything? Anything. Like, I Any Yeah. I might have

value. I I I mean, I feel like we just have to

go to back to the beginning where it was just, like, get weird.

Like, don't care what other people think. Like,

I find, you know, a lot of times,

like, I find sometimes getting a break from social media can be

really helpful for people because we're just constantly consuming

how other people do things all the time. I would say take a

break from social media, find out what your weird is, Get

super crazy passionate about it. Hyperfocus the

fuck out of it and, like, put it out there. And if no one wants

it, don't stop. Like, keep going. Keep trying things.

Keep doing things that make you feel good, that you needed

from your younger self what you need now. I feel like

sharing things that empower you, that help you in your

life because other people will take that and need that. Other people need your

ideas, your visions, your creative. Like, we

need it. Like, there's no overabundance of everything. We need

everyone's differentiation. We need it. So, like, share it.

And the projections are gonna come in. People are gonna think and feel what they

think and feel. You can't control what other people think and feel, but you can

control what you think and feel and what you put out in the world, and

that's what matters. So that's what I'll leave you.

Mic drop. No. I had a feeling you were to go for the the get

weird. Weird. It just it feels like such a good overarching

theme for it. Oh, I love it.

Jess, if you have any questions since you're live here,

you're welcome to ask any questions you may have with your little baby. This is

why I was on silent and not,

being a morbid But that's okay. Me coughing and not being on mute like I

thought I was was great too. I was like, oh, cool.

No. It's all good. We just we've been listening to it like

a like a little podcast. How it worked? No. This

was really great today. I really appreciate you doing

this. I have an employer

that is, neurodivergent. And so hearing some

of these tactics, hearing some of these experiences

is hopefully going to make me like a better coworker, you

know, like a better person to work with because, you know,

because, just trying to be a team player and make sure that I still work

her in the best way that I can. And

it's perfect timing because I feel like today, I was experiencing a

lot of comparison struggles. I had to go on some of my

co other photographers' websites today, and it made me start feeling real bad

about what I do and about what I'm where I'm at in my life. And

I was like, this sucks. So the advice

of, like, get weird, do what you wanna do is how

I generally live my life, but sometimes just need a reminder.

So I really I really appreciate that. I think that's advice that anybody can take,

you know, no matter Absolutely. Where you're at. Yeah. Jess, you are so weird, and

I love it so much. Yes. So much.

What a compliment. I love it. No. No. It's so, like, already.

She was like, it no, Don't fret. You

you are. Yes. Get back to your roots here. No. I love

it. I love it so much. So thank you. That's so

I'm glad that I was able to hop on live and and thank you in

person. Appreciate you. I I love that you're in this to

better understand your neurodivergent employer because I just feel

like how beautiful is that? You trying to, like, understand how a different

mind works and trying to, like, see things from their point of view.

And I feel like that's you know, my friends do that for me, and it's

so deeply appreciated. So I just wanna thank

you for even being here to understand a little bit how neurodivergent

work. I think that's really kind and lovely of you. Absolutely. I mean, we

all we don't get anywhere not understanding the other people.

Right? Yeah. You're eating them out of nowhere. You're gonna cut you out

to anywhere unless you try to figure out how to talk to people. And as

a service based industry, I have to know how to talk to as many people

as I can. So as many tactics and

skills I can pick up, I try to I try to snag. So hopefully

everybody be watching this and, bap, and

and, that it's all useful information perfectly. Isn't that right?

Isn't that right? So sweet. What a little babe.

He's only been eating a little bit at the time. So there he goes. Oh,

that's not too bad. No. We're having a good time. He just needs to

touch the mouse. Anyway. No. Like,

please don't. We do things we're not supposed to.

Amazing. Thank you, Jess, so much.

Yeah. Oh my god. Thank you. This was great. I had so much fun. I

know. And I also I'm gonna message you separately about the

office vibes because, like, oh, damn. Dude, I Yeah. That

They're iconic. They're fuck I'm sorry. They're amazing. Like, sorry

for all the swear words. But, yeah, I

finally feel like my office is, like, me. Like, it's fully

me now, and I just, like, love being in here. Like, I spend so much

more time in here now, so it's awesome. That's amazing. I've gotta get the cat

boxes moved somewhere because that's, like, the biggest deterrent to me being in here. Dude,

that's a sun pretty nightmare. Yeah. You gotta get them out. Get them

out. Oh, I was brainstorming. Yeah. Yeah. It's

gross. Amazing. Okay. You guys, thank you.

That's a wrap for this episode of the Wealth Witches podcast. I hope our

magical money talks have left you feeling empowered and inspired.

Remember, wealth isn't just about dollars in the bank. It's about abundance and

financial freedom in all aspects of your life. I'm Katelyn Magnuson

encouraging you to keep challenging the status quo and embrace your inner witch on

this financial journey. Until next time, stay magical.

Hey there, magical listener. Are you ready to take your financial journey to the next

level? This is Katelyn Magnuson inviting you to join us at the wealth which

is monthly program where we dive even deeper into the cauldron of wealth.

From live training sessions about money, taxes, retirement, and business support

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