What does it truly mean to be a missional church in post-Christian America? Bryan Halferty, lead pastor of Anchor Church in Tacoma, Washington, discovered that it starts with a fundamental shift - from trying to fix problems to listening for where God is already at work. Through his unlikely combination of skateboarding and church planting, Bryan shares how embracing "failing forward" opened new paths for mission in one of America's most secular regions. From their innovative approach of being both "harbor" and "base" to their commitment to integrate justice and mercy into every ministry area, Anchor Church offers fresh insights for church leaders seeking to join God's mission in their communities.

In this episode, Bryan unpacks how Anchor grew from a single church plant to three distinct congregations in six years, each contextualized to its neighborhood while maintaining unity in mission. He explains why they recently paused church planting to deepen their missional impact, and shares practical strategies for weaving justice and mercy into church DNA. Whether you're planting a church, revitalizing a congregation, or seeking fresh vision for ministry, this conversation offers both encouragement and practical wisdom for moving from "fixing mode" to Spirit-led mission.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

• Anchor Church: https://anchortacoma.org/central
• Bryan’s website: https://www.bryanhalferty.com/ 
• Bryan's book, Terrible Beauty.
• Video: What learning looks like (clean): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QSocgE3yFY 

Mentioned in this episode:

Q4 Webinar: The Path from “I” to “We”: Extending Christian Community to the Neighborhood

Bryan Halferty: There was really this sense of, um, on our leadership of like, what does it look like, um, to not just plant churches, but to like, um, pause church planting so that we can weave in justice and mercy more into kind of our practices and our and our identity, not just as an aspirational thing that we respond to that like we say we do. We say we believe in, um, and when there's a need that shows up, we are able to step into it. But also but really as a proactive, sustained part of who we are. And we were still a younger church. We continue to be a younger church. Um, but at that point, I and some others on leadership, we recognized that to do this, to weave in justice and mercy into a greater sense of who we are, um, it meant that we would have to pause church planting so our, our resources would temporarily stop going there so that we could more thoroughly integrate these values into who we are. So the next church we planted had this in its in its DNA.

Terri Elton: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Pivot podcast. This is the podcast where we explore how the church can faithfully navigate a changing world. I'm Terri Elton, and I'm joined today with my co-host Dwight Zscheile.

Dwight Zscheile: One of the key pivots that we talk about here at Faith lead is a pivot in posture from focusing on fixing institutional problems to listening and discerning where God is leading. Today's guest, Bryan Halferty, knows a thing or two about that as a church planter in the Pacific Northwest. Bryan is a lead pastor of Anchor Church in Tacoma, Washington, which he planted in 2017 alongside his wife, Kandice, their two kids, and a small, dedicated team. He's currently writing a book, Terrible Beauty, which is reflecting on the spiritually formative and hard fought insights that he gained through the challenge of planting Anchor Church. Bryan, welcome to the Pivot podcast.

Bryan Halferty: Oh, so good to be with you guys. Thanks for the invite.

Dwight Zscheile: So tell us a bit about yourself and your journey into the world of church planting.

Bryan Halferty: Yeah. So two questions there. You know, there's the personal and then the professional. But, um, my wife Kandice and I, we've been married for 20 years. We just celebrated 20 years together. Um, which was fun to look back on those time together, but, yeah, look forward to. And my daughter Zoe is 14, and my son Soren is 11. Um, so that gives us a little picture of our family, I guess. But regarding church planting, kind of this entrance into the world of church planting, um, I guess you could say, like, you know, if you think about the times in your life when you're imagining what will become of me, what you know, where my professional ambitions going to go. You know, your average, uh, frat guys, you know, might be thinking starry eyed about a dive bar. You know, that they're going to start sometime in the future as a group of friends or tech bros or girls might be imagining some new killer app, or some groundbreaking tech startup and a lot of Christian entrepreneurial folk. You know, they imagine a church. What would it look like to have my own giftings blend with this community? And so I remember, you know, when I was a young Jesus follower, as a college student dreaming about it, you know, in the conceptual space, you know, late night conversations, whatever. And my friend and I, we were we talked constantly about this bookstore, church that was going to be a, you know, this kind of, um, bookstore, uh, Sundays would be a church. And I think now about, like, who would be the person who would be the investor to invest in this, this bookstore. But anyways, that was that was kind of it always enters through the space of imagination and, and dreams and potentialities before it can enter into the real actual. And that was that was some of the first times I thought about it. And I, um, I think I remember one time at an event, um, somebody, you know, the main stage speaker, you know, it's one it's one of those things where, like, you're you bump into them in the lobby and it's one of these, you have to tamp down your breath, you know, like keep your breathing. You know, this person's a person. It's a person. It's a person. But we bumped into each other and I just think I said something kind of like, complimentary, like, oh, that was really moving or thanks for sharing or whatever. What have you, you know, whatever Christian people say, you know, um, and uh, he said, well, hey, maybe we should plan a church together. And I, uh, I was like, uh, I didn't have a plan. I didn't have a I didn't know, but there's this, um, there's this. What if that popped in and it was funny, you know, eight years later, um, he was the one that invited me to kind of consider this church planting opportunity. So I guess I just say that because I think there are these seed like things, um, like in conversations with friends, but then professional opportunities, who knows how they'll arrive. But anyways, that was that was how it moved the we could go more into kind of the details of that that that invitation and and the discernment process, but that's a little bit of my entrance into it.

Terri Elton: So take us through. Let's go there. Take us where? Okay. This dreaming of like, what if church could be to actually saying, I think we have an idea here. And maybe it was the idea of anchor or what became anchor, and then what were the first steps you did to kind of move that idea into a reality or to hone it down?

Bryan Halferty: Yeah, it's a good question. So I think like, first of all, um, you know, starting something like anchor means you're leaving or any church. It means you're leaving something else, right? So, um, because it's a new thing. Um, and so I think I was in a pretty comfortable role as a college pastor. Um, and I started to you start to you start to see where the ceilings are in your role. Um, and, um, I just started noticing these, and I think that everybody notices these at some point. If you don't, maybe you're not growing or not paying attention. Or maybe you're a CEO with a ridiculous amount of money and no supervision, but. And then I think anytime you're there, you have to say, do I like the ceiling or do I want a vaulted ceiling or skylight? And it was about eight years in where I started to see some of these like things, and I wondered, what could else there be? You know, what else could there be? Um, and it was then with that that who became a mentor reached out to me and asked about this church planting opportunity. But really, that began this process of discerning and, um, and I think that there are these practical steps where, um, a conversation becomes a commitment and then the commitment becomes there's this process, um, where, um, I'm working on a proposal that has these kind of ideas of what, what this church might be for for about nine months, when we had committed to the idea of a church plant, we actually didn't have a name for it. We called it the Tacoma plant. and because we wanted to hold off as long as possible on a name. And so is my proposal. Even to this day. It's called the Tacoma plant. I can look it up and has everything from psychographics to demographics to kind of like values and organizational structures. Um, and um, but then this process moves into, yeah, I think the process, it moves into kind of like packing a U-Haul. Um, I don't know. There's there's so many directions to go. I guess one of the interesting things that pops to mind is when I was still, as this college pastor, about a couple hours away from Tacoma, where we presently live and where anchor is, um, I remember inviting college students to our house to hear about the church. I was trying to convince them to move with us, and some of them had friends in Tacoma, and some of them didn't, but some of them were graduating. Um, and I remember asking everybody, to name where they were at between 1 and 3 at the end of me pitching this dream. And one was, I'm not. I'm just here for a friend. Don't ask anything of me. And three is I'm ready to sign the paper. Let's do it. And I remember it being all ones, you know, and and being totally like, okay, blink test is this are we going to go forward or is this going to happen? Um, but slowly those ones become 1.3 or 2.4. They start making these different numbers up to make sure that I know that they're not fully there yet. Um, but some of those people actually are still plugged into the anchor, you know, church. So I think that when you think about, like, where did it start? How did this thing become a real thing? It's like there's all these threads, there's the programmatic, there's the practical, there's this process, and then there's this relational piece where you're inviting people into a dream, into something that doesn't exist. And you, they have to believe in it like you do and become a three, so to speak.

Terri Elton: I love the testing of that and the we we talk a lot about faithful innovation and the iterations. Right. You have to listen. You have to test some things quickly, get feedback, change. You know, you can't take your first idea, for example, and say, that's it, right? And it sounds like you really took that process seriously and people took you seriously to give you that good feedback.

Bryan Halferty: Yeah, sometimes I think of it like, um, it's like the errand boy and the princess. That's the metaphor I sometimes use where this princess is this beautiful thing up in a tower. And it she only, like your church, only becomes a church. If the princess of this, this idealized situation marries the errand boy of reality. And it's. That's the only way. And so the ideal is never. It never happens. I remember some of those guys in that room, the folks in the room, you know, saying, I remember this sounds so dumb, but whispering white subway tiles. Imagine a church with white subway tiles. And I'm like, now looking back, I'm like, so it's like it's not only surface level, but there's no subway white subway tiles at all over anchor. The original name was Salt and Light, and I remember testing it with people and being like, yeah, I don't know, what does it mean? And it's too opaque. It's so I think there's this process where, yeah, the ideal is never becomes the real, and it's in the process of testing it. And you know that that sorts itself out.

Dwight Zscheile: Well, so give us a picture of what Anchor Church looks like today. Who participates. How are you contextualizing the gospel in the Tacoma community?

Bryan Halferty: Well, so anchor is three congregations right now. Um, we have one, two in the in the city of Tacoma. Um, one in a neighborhood called Lincoln. And, um, Anchor Central is not central because it's like the central hub, but it's in the central Tacoma. And then another congregation in Lakewood, which is a kind of an adjacent city. Um, so there's three congregations. And I would say throughout all of these congregations, there's what I would call like this sense of sense of holistic diversity, um, which is um, economic, uh, ethnic, um, generational, which is beautiful to see and sometimes interesting, uh, to manage and lead. Um, so, uh, there are folks that are all spiritually diverse, so people that, um, an increasing amount of people that aren't followers of Jesus but are sensing this hunger that they can't name and are wondering if Christianity, if the if the church might have an answer for it. Um, so, uh, participants, you know, I'm trying to paint a picture of that, folks that maybe are participating. Um, I'd say, you know, most of the people that stay, um, kind of appreciate these kind of parallel, um, values of being grounded in historic faith, but also nuanced and thinking about things in ways that, um, appreciate subtlety. Um, but also, yeah, grounded in. in what the church has always believed. Spiritual fire and spiritual formation. You know, those are some things that will come up in conversation, even if the words don't express them, you know, aren't the same. Um, yeah. So how we're contextualizing the gospel. Um, you know, I think that, um, uh, it's such an interesting question. I mean, I feel like it's something that was so urgent and important for me on the front end of church planting. That feels like now I feel like I'm speaking the native language. And so the contextualizing happens much more like, much easier. Uh, there's a challenge of that is that you just get stuck into this is how you do it. Um, so I'd have I'm having to reach back into kind of some of those earlier years in, you know, 2017, 2018. Um, and so we would listen to contextualizing early on. We would listen a lot to where the pain is. Um, you could say where the promise and where the pain is of a place. And I think that, um, contextualizing the gospel always involves. Where is the gift of the city? Where is the beauty of this neighborhood? Where's the beauty of my neighbor? And where's the thing that, like the God, the God madness of this place? Um, and where is the, uh, unique pain? Um, that whether it keeps them up at night or stirs them to tears pretty easily. And when you have those things together, you have a glimpse of, I think, what the Lord wants to do. I would say, um, and, uh, so how are we? Uh, you asked that question. How are we contextualizing it? I think, um, um, we're listening to those two things and, and responding, um, and maybe we can get to some of the ways of the how, um, later, but.

Terri Elton: Well, I think there's a good tie to the question I want to ask here on your church website. It says this. It may sound counter-intuitive, but our main goal is not to make a good church. It's to partner with God in making a great city. Now, one of the things I love about that is it's very theological. It says a lot about your theology. God is active and God is in the world, right? Um, what does that mean in practice for you? How has that helped you think through some of the things you just talked about?

Bryan Halferty: Well, you know, you're right. It is it is theological. I, I think of I remember early on the Jonah 4 where God says, shouldn't I have great love for this city or this great city? And and then Acts 8:8, I don't know if you remember this, but Philip goes to Samaria, he's getting chased out of Jerusalem, and he does all this ministry. Um, and at the end of that eight eight it says, and there was great joy in that city. And so that's kind of been this kind of heartbeat for us with regards to that. And so I think it has to be mentioned, you know, um, admittedly, there was kind of like it was a nice thing that reflected good theology, as you mentioned, for us. And we were saying it aspirationally we're saying it as like we want to be this. We want to become this. This is what we believe. This is what we're. Um, yeah. So I think but it positioned us to think about things, um, in ways that, um, sent us outside of the walls. We, we use this language of anchor as both the harbor has to be both a harbor and a base. A harbor is a place of safety from a challenging environment. A base is a place of sending out to so. And we use the language of gather and scatter. We try to weave that into our people. That we are a church is exists in these rhythms of gathering and scattering, I guess, on the ground floor, like, um, what this like one thing that like, rises to my mind, um, initially is, um, not only did we desire to be a church that plants churches, but about a year and a half ago, after planting, um, three churches, two congregations, we would say we would conclude that and, you know, and another autonomous church and then helping out spur on a lot of other church plants. Um, there was really this sense of, um, on our leadership of like, what does it look like, um, to not just plant churches, but to like, um, pause church planting so that we can weave in justice and mercy more into kind of our practices and our and our identity, not just as an aspirational thing that we respond to that like we say we do. We say we believe in, um, and when there's a need that shows up, we are able to step into it. But also but really as a proactive, sustained part of who we are. And we were still a younger church. We continue to be a younger church. Um, but at that point, I and some others on leadership, we recognized that to do this, to weave in justice and mercy into a greater sense of who we are, um, it meant that we would have to pause church planting so our, our resources would temporarily stop going there so that we could more thoroughly integrate these values into who we are. So the next church we planted had this in its in its DNA. So, um, so that as we pause church planting, it meant we all of our staff had scheduling audits, like with their their events and their ministries, to see how justice and mercy was woven in along with their normal church plants, you know, or sorry, ministry, church ministries, activities. So even kids ministry, you know, how would justice and mercy weave in? How would in our hospitality ministry, justice and mercy weave in? How would in our groups ministry weave in? Um, these things, you know, began to be um, and now I would say are much more, um, not just an aspirational, responsive thing, but a sustained, proactive part of who we are. Um, one of the ways, I would say with the groups way that we tried to kind of in a practical way, um, kind of provide, um, kind of imaginative vision for this was in our, in our groups ministry. We would, um, we would partner along with a group. If there was a group, if the group knew of a need in their neighborhood, it could be a financial need. Um, it could be not really a financial need, but there might be financial elements into it. Um, we would match whatever as anchor would match whatever the group, um, contributed so that their impact was doubled as they addressed a local micro need. And that was a really cool way for us to kind of like unleash creativity and unleash kingdom impact at the same time.

Terri Elton: I want to make a note if anybody doesn't know where Tacoma is to be, a harbor and a sending place is kind of the mission of the city. Yeah, like or or it's hard to not be in it and know that that's a part of its heartbeat.

Bryan Halferty: Well, the language is is intentional there. So Tacoma is about 30 minutes south of Seattle if you're unfamiliar with it. And it is set on the water. Um, and there's a military base close by And there's a city called Gig Harbor. Close by. So this language of harbor and base, um, has has a lot of resonance, not only with the scriptural story, but with the kind of the local demographics as well. So, yeah, there is an intentional use of language there that, um, we were leveraging.

Terri Elton: I also think, I mean, these are contextual pieces, right? Like as you talked about earlier, I also think, uh, and maybe you can say about this as you kind of think forward, how how were other efforts also trying to impact the good of the city. Right. My sense is we talked I have been there recently and I've seen new life come where once it was kind of rundown or tired. Right. How how do you see that kind of helping the movement of this and and partnering with the world, not just other churches? Do you know what I mean? Like for the good of the city is different.

Bryan Halferty: So you're absolutely right. And so part of the ways that a church, part of the ways it might sound like a little bit of a cop out, but but part of the ways that the church partners with the city is, is giving worth and dignity to everyone that's in the room on a Sunday in their professional roles, and helping them have a kingdom imagination for their their normal, their job. That it is. It is. It has a unique element of calling. And so it might sometimes the church might not always have the open doors to like, bless a university in the ways that the university needs a resource. But the church can bless a university by the college professors and the administrative staff, knowing that as they step into their jobs, it isn't something that is auxiliary to the church, but it is elemental. It is part. They are being the church. So, um, yeah. So Tacoma has um, has a fascinating study, our city because, um, because it has a history of kind of the blue collar, crime I'm infested, so to speak. City in the northwest. It's as I like kind of to joke with some friends. If Seattle got, you know, Seattle, Portland, Tacoma. We're all brothers. Seattle got an MBA from Stanford and is doing just fine. And Portland went to art school and has had showings all over the West Coast. And Tacoma was in jail for a couple of decades and got out, but is doing just fine and actually has made a living. And you you'd be surprised at some of the creative, you know, creative works that it's doing as a hobby. So and I say that as a person who loves Tacoma, um, and, and so I think from 2007, people that know the city well would be able to point to. Well, when University of Washington Tacoma entered into abandoned buildings in the downtown core, there began a urban renewal that has been stifled at various points but continues to, through fits and starts, move forward. Um, that has become made Tacoma actually quite attractive to those on the inside. In fact, there's a funny line people know maybe Austin and Portland, how they have the line keep Portland weird or keep Austin weird. Tacoma's bumper sticker is Keep Tacoma feared because there's this desire to have it inside. You know, don't let them know that Tacoma is such a beautiful city.

Terri Elton: Thanks. That's beautiful, I appreciate that.

Dwight Zscheile: Well, so I'm curious to know a bit more about the Anchor Lakewood and Anchor Lincoln, um, campuses or congregations. However you describe this, how did you all discern that new locations or ministries were needed to be started in those areas? And then how do the three relate to one another?

Bryan Halferty: Yeah, it's a great question. So, um, you know, very practically, um, we polled, um, our all the addresses that we have at our church management system, um, and plotted them on a Google map. Um, we started, I should say, we started with a bias towards horizontality so that we would not be a church that is kind of like ascending vertically, but we would be a church that's empowering and unleashing. And, you know, I'm not an ideologue, you know? So I think I was when I, we planted the church, I've been, um, you know, demystified. But, um, but that's kind of a bias that we have as part of how we approach ministry. So we started with that bias, that planting and horizontal growth. Um, so we pull these addresses, we put them on a Google map, and we do this thing, we just call it praying the perimeter. You know, we have these sometimes we'll if we're considering a plant, if we're considering starting a new congregation, we'll just have them on our desk. And as prayer focuses, um, and sometimes we'll, um, we'll drive around the perimeter, but most often we're just looking at this map and thinking of the names of people that we that are on the farthest out perimeter, um, and, um, and, uh, just asking, God, is there a new space where these two things show up? Desire and need. Right. So, um, these people are coming in or have some have some type of affiliation with anchor for one of our congregations. Or if you map out all three now, all three of our congregations. So there's this mix of whatever you would maybe call it desire and need that's compelling them towards us. Now, sometimes you say, hey, aren't there some? Sometimes they're like, you want to say, don't. You can just find a church that's closer to you. You know, don't drive all the way in. But for whatever reason, they're doing that. And so we, um, we use that as kind of a template or heuristic matrix, whatever you'd like to call it, to get us going, um, towards that discernment process. Um, how we relate to each other, we are all one legal entity. So there's different ways to kind of like do this kind of horizontal approach, different levels of affiliation. We do call them congregations instead of campuses, because we think that lends itself to a slightly more autonomy, um, in how we would understand it. So, um, they have live teaching, um, and they have, um, in some elements of Contextualization that that are unique to the neighborhoods that they are in. Um, so, for instance, Lincoln, our Lincoln congregation, it's in one of the most ethnically diverse areas of the Pacific Northwest. And so it has that reflected on a Sunday morning. Um, and their music is, is much more infused with gospel. Um, than, for instance, anchor Central is. Um, and so there's a level of you could call it contextualization and alignment that is always at interplay within the three congregations. And it's much more of a dance than something that's hard and fast. Um, which sometimes makes leadership and management conversations interesting. Um, but, um, I think it allows us to have a lot more vibrancy, um, into our ministry approach. So again, kind of getting into the more practicals, I meet with the other congregation leads, um, weekly. We sit down, we have a it's a collaborative thing. Um, but it feels collaborative. But it is kind of a of a direct report conversation. Um, and but we it's a collaborative approach. And so we're thinking through our problems together. We have our, our forms that we bring to the meeting where we're talking about our key areas of responsibility and, and how we can think through together. We have a network meeting on Tuesday where we all the staff and and volunteers from all of the congregation that are able to come do a training together. We we sing together, we study the scriptures together. And it's kind of a galvanizing opportunity for high level volunteers and staff throughout all of our congregations to really deepen as a community and as disciples and leaders. So that's a little bit of the how we relate to each other. I don't maybe know if you can feel free to ask more questions on that.

Terri Elton: Well, I want to ask another contextual question. Um, when some of us that don't live in the Pacific Northwest or in Seattle Tacoma area, we maybe don't think of it as a Christianity hotbed, right? So how do you see that part of the context playing into this? Was it more difficult? Did it actually help the process or refine the process around things? And what are some of the things that you've learned, or the ways that you've learned about connecting the gospel to those yearnings that you talked about earlier, especially in a in a more secular culture?

Bryan Halferty: So I remember having a conversation at a church conference, and, and this person asked me, I think we were just kind of waiting around. And the the teaching was just on deconstruction, which of course is this hot, hot topic, right? Um, and he this person who I was getting to know said, hey, how have you seen deconstruction show up in the Pacific Northwest? And it was so fascinating because I started thinking about it. And I know while it's a hot topic and while everybody's talking about it, it's like, and I don't want to be simplistic. I mean, certainly it's a thing that shows up in the church culture in the Pacific Northwest, but it feels like it's very much like a, a topic that, um, shows up in Nashville, um, more than the more than Seattle. So, so because I think it's something that is kind of in church centric cultures, people are finding themselves deconstructing, but in but in honestly, in the Pacific Northwest. I mean, Seattle has had its own thing with some past church, um, frustrations and hurt. But but in Tacoma and many areas of Pacific Northwest, people are actually deconstructing out of secularism. So they're finding themselves, um, actually coming to the point where the secular narratives, whether it's of progress or self-empowerment or whatever, they're finding the limits on those. Just as I mentioned earlier, they're hitting the ceilings on those narratives, and they're asking bigger questions that that they aren't finding readily available answers for. And so now I do not want to suggest that there's some massive revival happening in Tacoma. Uh, God is certainly working. He is very active. But I do think that there is this seed bed of wrestling. So while it is easy to say and sometimes, admittedly church planters love to say it, most unchurched area of the Pacific Northwest or sorry of the nation. You know, while we love to say that phrase about the unchurched because it makes us sound edgy and cool and we're on the front edge, certainly. Okay, we are in many respects, but people are going to be people and humans are human. And there is, like you said, these yearnings that because we are made by God that we cannot escape, we can't get away from him. We want community. We want hope. It's these funny things like, can you imagine? It's like Peter Pan trying to shed his shadow, you know, like it's like, wait, does he shed his shadow? He can't get. Can't he wait? Does it? No, he. I'm sorry. That metaphor doesn't work because it does get away from him anyways. Um, so. But but we can't shed these things. Um, they they are, um, part of who we are. And so I think that, like, I think of I had a conversation with, my tattoo artist. Um, uh, and, um, he he showed up to church, um, about two months ago. He's with his family, and he has the most deadpan face, you would think, if you looked at him like he just hated you. Um, and but there he is in the back of the row or the back of the church, and he's waiting for me. We've talked about it. He knows I'm a pastor. We follow each other on social media. Um, and that conversation in the back of the church led to, um, three weeks later, him. Him surrendering his life to Jesus. Now, why? How? I mean, obviously, yes, God is working, but he has this. He said to me, um, and this is okay, that I share that he's he's fine. He said, I want to be a good husband, and I want to be a good father, and I, I, I don't know how I find I'm finding the edge of myself and I'm, I'm wondering how How do I be a good husband and a good father? And, um. And so this I and I think that honestly, if the the more honest people get, the more they'll come to similar conclusions. Whether they land themselves in the church, they'll be asking those questions. I mean, let's make it. I mean, I remember when we moved in, um, my neighbors, I call them who I love, pentagram chic, you know, um, they, um, you know, like, ah, something left of antifa, you know, and and love sporting pentagrams and, and so like, I instantly I see this and they the first time of course, they asked me, what do you do? I'm like, well, gosh, this is my this is some type of opportunity. I don't know what quite it is, but so there's those anxious moments where you have to own the fact of who you are, knowing that some people may have an opinion about that, but, um, God's always working and people are always going to be people, which means they always have this ache for something bigger than what the world can offer. Um, yeah. So I guess there's so much more, obviously that could be said, but that's where I instantly go with that question.

Dwight Zscheile: You know, I think sometimes places like the Pacific Northwest or now New England, which is also profoundly secular, um, because you have to start from scratch with introducing people to, to a gospel that they've never heard or if they've heard maybe some caricature of at some point and dismissed rather than assuming that participation in church is some normal thing. It's super abnormal if you're in the in the West Coast generally, I think in most places, as someone who grew up there myself in an unchurched family. And so, um, so I think that's I think there's something really fresh and exciting about that opportunity to say, how do we actually just, you know, listen to people and love people and communicate in the same way? So, well, I want to ask this next question because it connects to my own story a little bit. So we know that something that you loved in your youth, that you continue to do is to skateboard. And I used to skateboard myself and I have a picture.

Terri Elton: I have a picture of you in my head. I don't know if it's real.

Dwight Zscheile: I date myself, this was like, you know, skateboarders noticed. This was like the days of the Bones Brigade. The original Bones Brigade. Like, that's how old I am. But it was awesome. It was awesome. Middle school in Santa Cruz, California. Right? Um, and so in the 80s. So. But, um, you say that you embraced skateboarding as a perpetual tutor in humility, which I, which I love. So what resonance do you see in middle aged skateboarding and church planting or pastoring in general?

Bryan Halferty: Yeah, I was listening to this podcast, um, I don't know, a few years ago. And the it was like, um, kind of a guy who does brain science, I think at some West Coast University. And he, he said, um, skateboarding introduces you to constant failure. And because of that, it, it it creates resilience. And I, I love that I mean, because you think like like I skate, I, I, I re-engage with it because I'm incurably nostalgic and wanted to meet people in Tacoma. So, um, but, um, but in stepping into skateboarding, I think, again, um, I've you keep falling and you keep bleeding, and you, you keep ending up with this body that's at certain points are black and blue. One time, Dwight, I had, um. I had fallen so much on my elbows. Um, I was preaching and my elbows were swollen and people would come up to me, and they were like, how are your. Are your elbows okay? Did God make you that way or did you get hurt? And and so like I have I bear on my body the marks, you know, so um, and, um, and I think that, like, um, I, um, I've become a failure. Used to be so scary, and it still is. I don't want to, um, pretend it isn't, but skateboarding has been one of the Catalysts for becoming comfortable with continued failure and delighted in eventual success. Um, and I think that it's spiritually formative in that way. You know, um, it, um, it helps me become okay. Yeah. Trying something repeatedly.

Dwight Zscheile: I love that, I love that.

Terri Elton: Are we going

Terri Elton: to see you on the Olympics anytime soon? Okay,

Dwight Zscheile: well, hey, Tony.

Dwight Zscheile: Hawk is still going. You know.

Terri Elton: That's what I mean. There's these young and older. I'll just say elders right of the field.

Bryan Halferty: I will be I've got a mini ramp in my garage, and I will be having my own private Olympics there in my garage.

Terri Elton: That's good. Well, let's end with a conversation about your book, Terrible Beauty. How has working on this book helped you reflect on or process your own spiritual formation as you've engaged in this work of planting churches? And which other books or authors or or thinkers have been important to you to you in your own spiritual formation and or your your philosophy of church planting.

Bryan Halferty: Yeah. Good. Good question. Well.

Terri Elton: I know we're just going there from skateboarding. Yes. If you're following at home.

S4: Uh, it's.

Bryan Halferty: It's related. I mean, certainly skateboarding shows up in this book project that I'm working on. Um, uh, so this book, Terrible Beauty, it's kind of this memoir forward story of, um, the process of of stepping out into uncertainty, into church planning. And I think so it has lots of parallels with anybody that's ever stepped out. What happens when you step out? Right. You face yourself, um, and all the anxieties that show up there. And so, you know, I mean, this is a longer conversation, but my wife and I talk pretty candidly, um, whether it's an anchor or other spaces of just that being the most difficult year of our marriage. Um, as she is an introvert, I'm an extrovert. I need I'm kind of, uh, needing to please people, wanting to please people, wanting to win them over. She's wanting stability. And so we were often missing each other. And I think that just even that there's this okay, well, that could be a disaster or it could be a spiritually formative opportunity. And it was probably 30, 70. Right? 70% spiritually or spiritually formative. But but definitely there were some elements of disaster that didn't go full bloom. Thank God. Um, and I think even just stepping into spaces of, like, having a conversation with somebody that a friend of, a friend of a friend introduced you to, and you don't even know who they are, but you're meeting them for coffee, and you have to kind of like, make sure you're breathing is under control before you get out of your car. You know, all those things are a part of stepping into the space. So the book deals with that and the stages of of working through anxiety and and stepping into these one step at a time, you could say into this terrible beauty. But the books as far as me that have impacted me, um, you know, I, I, um, I the book. I'm writing this book I'm writing Terrible Beauty. I'm writing it because I what I needed most in that first year was a friend and I. There's a lot of church plant manuals out there, but but there's a there's far fewer books that basically are saying, um, I understand and I'm with you. There is light. And um, so the books that helped me were more along those lines. Um, maybe not about church planning per se, but whether it's, you know, it's Henri Nouwen or David Benner, um, books that are that speak to the areas of wound and calling and healing. Um, and then there's kind of, you know, the, um, the more kind of missiological books that I tried as best I could, imperfectly, to bring from the top shelf to the bottom shelf. Um, but those are the those are the books that were most compelling to me. I think at those early stages, it was far less the manual and far more that I'm here with you and I understand, and the theology of mission books.

Dwight Zscheile: Well, Bryan, thank you so much for sharing your insights and wisdom with us today.

Terri Elton: Yeah it's great, I echo that. Thanks. And to our audience, thank you for joining us on this episode of The Pivot podcast. You can spread the word about pivot by leaving a review for us on our Apple Podcasts, or for catching us on YouTube and leaving a review there.

Dwight Zscheile: And finally, the best compliment you can give us is to share pivot with a friend. So until next time, this is Dwight Zscheile and Terri Elton signing off.

Faith+Lead voiceover: The pivot Podcast is a production of Luther Seminary's Faith lead. Faith lead is an ecosystem of theological resources and training designed to equip Christian disciples and leaders to follow God into a faithful future. Learn more at faithlead.org.