In this insightful interview, PR expert Carol Driver shares strategic tips on how small business owners, including tutors and entrepreneurs, can leverage press features to build credibility, expand reach, and grow their brands. Discover how to craft compelling pitches, navigate mindset blocks, and use media appearances effectively.

About Carol Driver

Carol Driver is a journalist with nearly 30 years’ experience and former Femail Editor at MailOnline. She now helps brands and entrepreneurs secure consistent national media coverage, with features in The Telegraph, Daily Mail, The Sun, Good Housekeeping, Stylist, and Woman & Home, as well as radio, podcasts, and TV.

Connect with Carol

Website

Facebook Group

LinkedIn

____________________

👋🏽 Hello! I'm Sumantha McMahon, and I've supported over 100 tutors and education business owners.

As a teacher 'dropout' turned professional tutor, combined with my 20+ years as a business owner, I'm in it with you! Yes, I'm qualified too :-)

My training leans on tried-and-tested methods that are completely tailored to our niche.

Work with me to breathe life into YOUR definition of success:

#1 Bespoke 1:1 Mentoring

High-touch 6-month programme for tutors who want to make their business more lucrative, in a sustainable way for the future, while protecting the impact they make.

#2 The Tutors' Mastermind

The leading membership for tutors that combines tailored training (live and recorded), a community of like-minded business owners and exclusive discounts.

This podcast is recorded using Riverside. Sign up for your account here (free plan available)

____________________

Sometimes, I share links to resources and apps that I recommend. They are all based on my experience - if I don't love them, I don't recommend them. In some cases, I earn a small commission for my recommendation, at no cost to you.

© 2024 Sumantha McMahon

I'm so excited to share this episode with you where I interview Carol and she is a former journalist, a former editor of a national newspaper. And she really shares about why small business owners should be in the press, how it can benefit us. And importantly, we really discuss those mindset blocks or those things that create a bit of anxiety, like why would anyone be interested and where would I even start? And

What if I get trolls and what if there's negativity that surrounds it? All those things that we're often worried about. It's a really valuable episode and what I really love about Carol is that she is so generous with her knowledge. She really doesn't hold back or gatekeep anything. So I think you're going to love this. If you would like to connect with her, she has a fantastic Facebook group and I will pop all the links in the show notes. Enjoy.

Thank you so much for having me. So I'm Carol Driver. I've been a journalist for nearly 30 years and I've been running a PR business for eight years as well. So I help entrepreneurs, founders, startups get into the national press every month without fail.

You know, something I really liked that you said was when we spoke before, you said how, you know, even if people don't work with me, I don't care. I just want to help people get into the press. I think it's a really good thing. And I immediately knew I wanted you on the podcast when you said that because, you know, it's so heart led and that really suits us, you know, like my audience, like we all work in education.

And yes, we want to charge money and yes, we want our businesses to grow, but we're doing ultimately something that we really believe in and that we're passionate about. So I just wanted to get that out there because I think it's a testament to who you are as well. So thank you so much for being here.

Yeah.

Now I'm going to, I'm going to dive straight in. I know that someone listening to this will immediately be thinking, but why would I want to be in the press? I'm a private tutor. What's the value? What would I even talk about?

Could we start there? Like, why do you think this is such an important thing for small business owners?

Yeah, so there are multiple reasons.

Just to kind of go back to your point that you just mentioned, if that's okay, because it is something that I'm really, really passionate about. So I've been a journalist for about 30 years. And one of the reasons I started this business is that I would meet with lots of PRs who I would say, look, this type of story is working. This is what we're running right now. And they'd come back with their clients, you know, kind of branded.

Of course.

pieces and I thought that's a real waste of resources and I knew that I could do better so I always I always say collaboration over competition and as you say if I if it's a good fit to work with somebody then I work with them and if it's not that's fine my advice still stands and I'm genuinely happy to help people. So in terms of the benefits of being in the press what we're seeing now this year it's being called a trust recession so

We've got AI, we've got fake news, we've got lots of smoke and mirrors, especially in the online world. There's so many people now competing for time, for audience, for money. And ultimately, the majority of people who I meet and who I work with are who they say they are, and they genuinely want to help other people. Now, one of the ways that you can do this is by posting on social media, promoting what you do, going into local groups and things like that.

And that is called basically, you know, using somebody else's platform. You're elevating yourself by using their platform. What the press allows you to do is really maximise that. You get to reach lots of people through different kinds of stories and potentially we'll touch on those later on as well. So you get to use their platform. In turn, what that does is gives you

what we call kind of a trust stamp. So it gives you a logo to say, I've been featured in this publication. And really what that says to people is that you've been validated by a third person. So a third party that you are not only who you are claiming to be, and you've got those credentials, but also they've kind of been verified in a way that a journalist has spoken to you to make sure you are, you know, who you say you are. So if you think about a website,

for a tutor or any business, if it's got a scene in across the bottom, potential clients are much more likely to click on that and think, right, okay, yeah, it's not just you telling me and singing your own praises, it's actually somebody else who's validated that. it's a way of reaching many more people so that you can help more people. It's a way of expanding your business and it's a way of getting, know, becoming that authority figure in your field.

Yeah, I have two questions off the back of that. So you mentioned the trust recession, which I've seen around and it's I think it's very, very true. And in some ways, I think it's wise for there to be a trust recession because you can say anything you want on social media. And we have access to tools like Canva, for example, where we no longer need a graphic designer to make things look really polished. And, you know, so I think in some ways it's good because

It really forces people to do their due diligence. So on that, I'm finding myself in a trust recession right now. When I see, you know, as seen in, I've always thought, wow, you know, they're really good. They've, know, exactly what you said. It's a real stamp of credibility. But then I've seen another side where I've seen people be in the press for things totally unrelated to their business.

I remember, I'll never forget it, someone saying something about how they'd done a piece on gum disease and it was nothing to do with their business, they were a tutor. But they could now put on their website as seen in and then nobody would check that or know that actually they spoke about something completely unrelated. From a consumer point of view, if you're seeing as seen in,

How do you use that if you want to do your due diligence?

Yeah, so this is a a huge bugbear of mine at the moment because there are so many groups now where you can be in contact with journalists, you can receive journalists' requests and things like that. I was speaking to somebody, so I'm just back from India, which...

I was on this charity tuk-tuk ride across India and one of the women on there, she said, I've had loads of PR. I was in the Daily Mail for this. I was in the Sun for this. I put myself forward for this. And I said to her, but none of those things are related to your business. And she was like, I know. And I said, so how is that doing PR for you and your brand and your business? Because

I actually think that that's quite damaging for your brand to be in multiple places, popping up all the time for things that are not going to draw people back. I mean, that's just doing PR for the sake of wanting to do it. That's fine if you're, if you just want to be in the press.

you know, you've got no kind of goals, no aims, no strategy, then that's fine if that's what you want to do. But if you want to build up trust and credibility for you, for your brand, for your business, it has to be brand aligned. And what I mean by that is that if you pick like, if you have a Venn diagram with your core business in the middle, and then the topics that you can speak about overlap,

and then you don't go outside of that. So you don't put yourself forwards for, you know, random requests that are just going to be, you know, make you visible for something that's completely unrelated because readers won't know why they should come into your world. They won't know what you can offer them or, you know, anything else. So I actually feel that that's quite pointless.

Also on the flip side, and this is where I bring something different to a PR, is that I'm a journalist. So I've been in the editor's chair and I've seen the people who put themselves forwards for case study requests again and again and again. And what you end up doing is blacklisting them. And I've done this, I know other editors do this. There are the people who put themselves forwards often.

And after they've been in the press a couple of times, editors are like, no, you know, you keep putting yourself forwards for these requests. How is it that you fit this profile and this profile and this profile? So you're not doing yourself any favors at all by, by doing that. So as a consumer, if you come up,

across somebody's website and it's as seen in, if they've got the links, just have a click through. I did this the other day and it was somebody who had said, it's seen in the times and here and here. And I was like, okay, great. Always click through, have a click through. And what she'd actually done, it was the same story that had been picked up by multiple outlets.

So it wasn't necessarily,

yes, she was featured by those publications, but that's kind of a loose, you know, sort of description because,

they had picked up the same story. So it wasn't that she'd been featured in multiple publications for multiple things that were expert led and then related back to her business. It was actually a personal story. Always click through as you would do with, you know, if you were going to a restaurant or you were going to book a hotel, you'd always have a little look to see what people were saying, what the facilities were, if it were aligned with what you want and kind of do those 360 checks. So,

Yeah, always have a look a little bit further.

some really good insider knowledge actually that if you just try and spam basically you're going to get blacklisted so it doesn't serve you. And also I suppose what I was hearing when you were talking about how to put yourself forward is that putting the credibility stamp of as seen in is only one part of it. You're not going to maximise the opportunity unless you're talking about something and you're you are featured somewhere which is really aligned.

because then you're not going to get anyone from that audience coming to your world anyway. So all you've done is you've been visible for the sake of it, just so you can have that stamp of credibility. And then it's up to consumers whether they click through and whether they really check it out, I suppose, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And that comes

down to a lack of strategy really. So obviously I have retainer clients and I work with them and I make sure every opportunity, don't put them forwards for every opportunity. get hundreds of opportunities coming in every day, but it's my job on their behalf to filter through those and think, right, what's going to be beneficial for you? What's going to elevate your position? And I think it's really important, even if you're doing your own PR, you're working with another PR, you're just starting out.

is to think about your destination and your aims and your goals rather than, you know, it's really important for me to get publicity. It's really important to get the right kind of publicity for you and your brand. And that overrides absolutely everything. Because once you've been featured in these publications, you've got to find a way for them.

to feature you again. Otherwise that's it. You've kind of gone out there with one kind of chance, one opportunity, and that could mean that a publication won't look at you again for another year, two years, because they've already featured you.

Interesting. So how do people navigate the mindset blocks? Because when I think about it, there are people who are very public, who are very transparent about their experiences of being in the press. And they share things like, just look at the comments section of this article that I was featured in, and you've got so many people trolling them and being really quite abusive. And that's quite scary. And then you've also got the angle of

But what are people going to think? know, like if I'm in the press and what do I even talk about? You know, if I put myself in that situation, for instance, and this is partly because I've never thought about it and I've never worked with someone as experienced as you, but I wouldn't know which publications, what to talk about. Would anyone even be interested in what I say? And then once I've done it, what if loads of people are abusing me in the comments?

How do you navigate? do you help your clients kind of prepare for that or just overcome that mindset block of who am I to do this?

Yeah. So my first session with my clients, I always say it's a bit like counseling. We're going to go deep. We're going to find out those mindset blocks because often, you know, our fears come down to just to sort of go there. Initially, our fears usually come down to something that we have learned or something that we have been told about ourselves or a box that we have put ourselves in. And I kind of say,

I'll cover off kind of the trolls and the comments, but what I say is to not lead your life restricted by the views of other people who aren't putting themselves out there, who don't have a purpose, who don't have a mission, who don't want to help people. We can't make ourselves smaller based on those people. But that said, know, it's not nice to think, my God, I'm going to get trolled or I'm going to get cancelled and all of these kinds of thoughts. Firstly, I'd say,

Look, it really depends on the story and the topic and that fear of, my God, it's going to be huge. And it's, it's probably not going to be, it's probably just going to be an advice led piece or a nice backstory. And yeah, you might get the odd person saying, you know, putting their two penneth worth in and great. They're a keyboard warrior. A lot of people on these websites actually do this as a sport.

So they go on there to compete with each other to get a red flag, to get the most green flags and to have the best comment. That's what they do. So I say to my clients, don't read the comments. Don't read the comments because do you know what? Given social media, you're going, you know, those people are out in force anyway, you know, they're on social media. They are kind of everywhere and

You can't escape that. I've worked with journalists who have been on the receiving end for many negative comments, but likewise, it's kind of a pyramid because there are hundreds and thousands of stories every day that nobody comments on. And we're just looking at that top percentage of ones that get backlash. So it really does come down to mindset. It really does come down to

understanding that sharing your story isn't about you and it's not something generally people do as an ego thing. Certainly not the people who I work with. All my clients are, the majority of them are female founders who want to help more people. And I say, well, I help you to help more people because I put you in front of a larger audience. So I'm,

I'm there by their sides, really. My first client who started with me eight years ago, who's still with me, we did have a viral story in the very early days. And it went bonkers and it got picked up. I was on holiday and she phoned me going, my God, I'm everywhere. And we just talked about it. We talked about it. I think I was on the phone to her for an hour. can remember walking up and down by the beach.

and we just spoke about it because it can be overwhelming sometimes, know, all of those kinds of fears that you think might happen. And ultimately, you know, there's a saying that today's news is tomorrow's chip paper and things do live and die quite quickly. So I'd say, well, that's maybe a mindset thing that you need to work on initially and get your aims and goals

sorted before you just go, right, I need to get press. and look, I've again, do doing what I, practicing what I preach, I've become hugely more visible in the past year, posting more regularly on social media. And even I had that in the beginning. I was like, all right, okay, well, what's so and so going to think? What's so and so going to think? And do you know what they think? Nothing.

Yeah.

and they don't think anything at all and it's absolutely fine. But I do get the fears and I do understand and that's something I do work on with my clients as well.

I think you're absolutely right. know, everything you've said makes a lot of sense. It's putting things in perspective that just because you might feature in the press doesn't mean it's going to go viral or that it's going to be massive. Really interesting about people trolling as a sport. I didn't know that. That's horrible. I thought, I always thought that maybe online there are some bots as well that perhaps do it, but, but yeah, interesting. In some ways that knowledge is quite empowering because you're like, okay, it's not personal.

quite possible.

God, it isn't. And it's also, you know, what I tell my daughter, she's nine. And I say to her, if somebody has a problem with you, whose problem is it? And it's their problem. And it's their viewing the world through their lens, their perspective, their projections, their lived experiences. So actually, it's nothing to do with you really in the long run. But it can still be a challenge to change your...

They're just doing it because they do. This is what they do.

or kind of evolve your mindset into acknowledging that. And it can still be confrontational, you know, when you, you know, I had a client the other day who I love, who is amazing, excellent, you know, with my clients, I'm fully invested because I need to go out and sort of sell them to editors. So I'm vouching for them and she is amazing. But when I first spoke to her, she said, well, I don't really have a story.

And okay, the Telegraph sent one of their top journalists around to her house for three hours, arranged a photo shoot, and it's a big feature on the Telegraph. And I'm like, yeah, sometimes people think that they don't have a story when actually, they really do have a story. And so she phoned me saying, my God, it's gone live and we had the chat as well. And it's that adrenaline, I think, of anticipation as well. It can be really exciting.

Yeah, well, I think you've touched on something that's very true, that, you know, when you see the stuff that's very visible to you, you hear the rags to riches stories or the stories that have something really dramatic, something newsworthy, someone has gone through something really poignant in their lives. And then if you think, well, there's little old me with who's led quite an ordinary life, really. I mean, I don't really know what people would find interesting.

There is everyone, do believe that everyone does have a story as well, because when you think about marketing yourself on social media or curating your brand or writing your about me page on your website, it's all kind of much of the same. But I think talking about being in the press just feels different because it's not something we have everyday access to, to be able to do. It's not something you automatically think of. But the reality is, that

It kind of goes in the same category. You're still telling your story. You're still talking about what you do. It's just through a different medium. And maybe someone is interviewing you kind of like a podcast in a way as well. So it's probably the unfamiliarity of it that gets people. Do you find that?

Yes, so I think it's interesting because, so take for example you speaking to me, you've brought me on as an expert to get the knowledge from me that's relevant to your audience, okay? And editors and journalists think exactly the same way. So...

Not everyone has that huge rags to riches arc, that kind of, you know, we see it and it ends in a pot of gold, you know, there's always sort of challenges and those stories are incredible because they're inspirational and you know, they lead people to think, my gosh, you know, if that person can do that, I can do it too and they stay with us. But not everybody does have that huge kind of extreme story.

But not all publications want extreme stories. If you look, for example, for the glossy magazines, through the glossy magazines, they're not looking for these, you know, for example, a recent story, I was homeless, I was penniless, I overcame these challenges and now I'm making millions.

For some of the glossy magazines, it's much more everyday life and it's much more the experiences that perhaps we all share that they're interested in that you might have, you know, gone through slightly differently or you might have a new take on something. And they're the kind of stories that they're looking for. But also specifically for your audience, they will have the knowledge that so many parents

want to have. There are so many ways that, you know, your audience of problem solvers, they can see a situation and they know how to progress that and how to move that forward to get a different result or to encourage that different result.

So up their sleeves they will have tips and tricks and new methods and you know different ways of working things out. Like I went to my daughter's parents evening yesterday we spoke to the art teacher and she was saying how she teaches them to draw a nose and upside down mounting or I probably got that wrong and how to draw lips and there were all little tags and hints that are easy to remember that can be then applied ongoing.

And like with tutors, with teachers, you will all have that insider information. So as a journalist, it's not my job to know everything. It's my job to, especially with the online world, it's my job to understand what people want to read about and how to present that to the reader. But then it's up to me to talk to experts in their field who are going to give me new information or a new take on an older topic or...

you know, these are the challenges facing, you know, teenagers or whatever level they're teaching, you know, this is potentially how schools could improve or how they're doing it wrong. There are so many topics that filter through so many age levels and that spans multiple publications as well. And all of those things will be, you know, what parent doesn't want that?

what parent wouldn't want to read that? my gosh, yeah, that's how I can get my kid interested in, know, maths or reading or whatever the topic is. And that's how I can help it to stick with them. What we're seeing now, you know, we're not going into politics or anything, but with schools, it's seemingly become sort of a bit of a one size fits all approach. you know, through...

conversations and what we're seeing now in terms of children growing up is that not all children learn in the same way. So parents are looking for those different kind of, you know, different experiences to bring home to their kids as well. there will be, there will be so much information, there's so much knowledge and so many good insights.

What you shared there is absolute gold. Thank you so much. That was really generous because I think that when you think about when you think about the press, you expect that you have to talk about something controversial, topical or quite dramatic. But you're absolutely right. The reality is everything you're talking about are conversations happening, for example, on LinkedIn in the education space. People are interested. People do have frustrations with the education system or

ways in which they are contributing to its evolution and to supporting children in different ways. I think we forget that there is this whole audience out there who really wants to know about these conversations we're having, because it would be interesting to them, relevant to them, and useful. So the very thing we're doing, all we're doing by being in the press is amplifying the impact that we're making.

Yeah, that's right.

And that can come in different ways. That can come as opinion columns. You know, I should imagine that a lot of tutors are either doing this potentially as a side hustle or that they're teachers who have left the profession for various reasons. And again, I'm not saying that everything needs to be, you know, not all publicity needs to be hugely controversial.

But there are stories, there are nuances surrounding that that need to happen because unless we shine a light on those issues and on those problems, it's going to be harder and harder to change them. And we can see that there's lots of frustrations at the moment in various industries. But until people...

until people speak out with solutions or, you know, talking about ways forwards and things like that, you know, who's making those decisions? Because surely it's better in the hands of the people who have experienced them to kind of come forward and talk about that. So it can be opinion pieces. It can be sort of backstories, you know, why you evolved into the position that you're.

in now, why you started your business, but it also can be expert led pieces, especially around the time of exams or sort of revision or university times, things like that, the kind of pinch points that everybody's sort of, well, not everybody, but parents especially are looking to consume that kind of information.

Yeah, and I think that's a very good point that there are different styles because, you know, something that people often will talk about is kind of how teachers are leaving the profession and why. And I remember seeing someone in a sort of debate and obviously they're very intentionally pitched to people with very opposing views against each other. And you had that one person doing the typical, but look at all the school holidays they have and kind of, they haven't really...

that there is a bit tone deaf, but it made a good piece because you had that friction. But you don't have to put yourself in that kind of position because like you said, there were expert columns, were different styles. And how would someone who has never ventured into this, how would they even go about thinking, who do I approach? What's the right publication? What is the right style for me? What?

What are the first steps someone might take to just explore this, even if they're not sure?

Yeah, of course.

you know, the main thing is to is to decide which publications and you do that by reading the publications.

So, you know, have a look at

I work with lots of different types of clients and different client, you know, everybody is different in terms of their goals and aims for their PR. Some want maximum publicity, others want to be in specific publications, both are down to the individual and I'll always advise them accordingly. And then it's, it's their decision to make it to make. So the best way to start is by

looking at different magazines, looking at obviously you will have trade magazines, so you have education focus supplements, education focus sections of national newspapers, you will have look where the crossover is, so you'll have the education areas, then you'll also have sections for parents, sections for you know

teenagers, sections for families. So there will be multiple sections within publications and it's dependent on you, what you're doing, where you feel that you would fit the best. Then read, read those publications because often I have people saying, I want to be on this morning. And I'm like, great. How are you going to...

what are you going to do? And they're like, I've just got a really strong story. I'm really passionate about this. And I'm like, great. Have you watched this morning recently? No. Okay. So how do know that they feature the types of things that you want to talk about? is it going to be heavily promotional? Have you got a visual?

have you got something that's gonna make it a bit of a novelty? Because that's the type of show that it is. So you might want to be featured by a publication or on a platform because you know the impact that that can have, but you also have to think about what impact you can have so that editors and producers feel that you're a good fit as well. And that's how editors and journalists will be thinking when...

you you get to the stage where you're contacting them with an idea which is called a pitch. you know, you're right about what your story idea is, why it's relevant now and why it's of interest to their audience. And that's the main thing.

editors will want to see that you understand the readership and that you're putting yourself forward in a relevant way and in a way that offers value to the readers as well. So I've actually been told this morning that a major broadsheet is now prioritizing expert led stories because Google is prioritizing experts. And you'll see these articles everywhere. You know, I'm a

former X or I'm an X, know, here's 10 things you didn't know, or here's 10 ways to get through X, Y, Z. And I think that one of the reasons behind that is that so many people now are using chat or AI to search for recommendations for, you know, potentially local tutors or for, you know, nutritionists or what have you. And how that works is that

The device will...

The

large language model, yeah.

Yes. How that will

work is it will skim read all the publications, all the trusted publications to bring in information on the most trusted, prominent kind of people in that field. So it will skim read publications like the Telegraph, the Times, the Daily Mail, you know, all those top tier publications to recommend people. So

That's just a bit of an insight into why else you would want to be featured in the press. But the first place to start is by reading the publications, finding out the journalists who write for those sections, and then writing down some potential ideas. And they need to be as varied and different, but as relevant as possible with a really good hook. know, why should we be talking about this right now?

Yeah, I did some training for my, so I have a membership called the Tutors Mastermind and I did some, I delivered some training a while ago on, on visibility. And one of the things I talked about was pitching to podcasts. And I said something quite similar in that, well, the way I was seeing is make it really easy for someone to say yes to you. What's going to make it really easy because it's not about you, it's about

being attractive to them, but making it easy. Assume that this is the hundredth one that they've received today. How are you going to make it easy? And giving them ideas means they don't have to think of them. So, you you've made that easy for them. Telling them that you're a credible source for those ideas makes it easy. means they don't have to go and research you before they enter into a conversation. So that's really good advice. And I think that

when you think about marketing in general, following that principle that it's never about you and it's all about the person you're addressing or the person you want to consume that is generally a great rule of thumb. Is that how you advise people? So let's say you're in, someone wants to feature you, they want your story. Do you advise your clients to follow that same principle that keep the people who are listening or watching, keep them in mind and make it about them and what they want to know?

Yeah, of course, because that's what has the most value for, for example, you, for an editor, for a journalist, because the more people who engage in that product, the more people who click on it, who listen to it, they'll know that that's of interest because we're all gauging what our audience is interested in and we want to know what they find helpful. We want that feedback.

So if an editor feels like you've done that hard work for them, know, in some of my pictures, I might say, you know, there are X amount of million Google searches for this topic every year. And that's a great hook because an online editor is then thinking, okay, well, we know that that's a topic of interest. So

That's, you know, it's kind of one more reason why they should be featured. Also to mention that I have for each of my retainer clients, I write their media bios for them. I do have a product for this, but I'm just going to share with your audience kind of what I, what, how I do that and the importance I feel that that brings. So I have a media bio, it's two pages. The first page just pulls out all the credentials, why you are.

you know, everything.

that feels like you're really boasting about yourself. Pull all those things out, you know, how much experience you've got, how qualified you are, how many people you've helped, how, you know, quantify it as much as possible and have that as kind of a quick overview. And then on the second page, I'll go a bit more in depth about my client's sort of personal story, how they got there. What that allows me to do is when I get a request in, so I subscribe for my clients, I subscribe to...

platforms that send me out journalists requests quite often. And with some of these, you know, the journalists will be inundated with requests. So there's no point in leaving it an hour to reply. So what I initially do is I respond to that journalist saying, yep, my client can help. Would you like to set up a chat or an interview with her? And then I copy and paste.

normally the first page of the media bio or both if that's relevant, because then I can respond really, really quickly. And these media bios can be used for podcasts, hosting for events, for master classes, anything like that. Because often we can talk ourselves out of putting ourselves forwards for something because we don't always have the time to think, right, I've got to write this media bio, I've got to write this pitch. So when it's there,

you can use it. You can write a few lines ahead of it and then copy and paste it and that person on the receiving end can quickly see everything about you. So it just means that you're more geared up to start putting yourself forwards for more opportunities and proactively pitching yourself as well.

That's really sound advice. Essentially have the assets that you need so you can respond fast so that there's less room for hesitation that I don't have time, I'll do it later and whatever else that might be. And from everything, from what I've picked up, from what you're saying as well, just to kind of consolidate it in a way, know, choose topics where you've done a bit of research as to how in demand that topic is.

And there are lots of tools out there where you can see what's being searched for and what's topical and what people are interested in. And if you present that, again, you're making it easier for someone to say yes, because they don't have to go away and find out, is this something people want to know? You've already given them that data. I really like the idea of making your experience as quantifiable as possible as well, because I do really like the idea. Again, I'm just sort of thinking about myself if I was in that position.

I do like the idea of somebody saying yes, because I'm credible, rather than just because I have a story. Because that would make me feel more comfortable with going forward with that. I would feel less like a fraud, basically. Otherwise I'd feel a bit like, have they checked me out? I right for this? You almost need that two-way validation, don't you?

Yeah, you really do. this is something that I say to my clients. So when it's a personal story or regardless, journalists will check you out. They will want, if you make, you know, sort of huge claims like it could be anything, but they will want some kind of proof to back up what you're saying. You know, I've been asked before for...

you know, a case study who was saying that they'd earned X amount of millions from their company and they wanted to have a report from an accountant, they wanted to have that so that it was all backed up. Or that you're coming through somebody credible who has done some checks on that person as well. it really, journalists will check, whether it's a personal story or an expert led story, but I understand what you're saying in terms of that kind of expert led piece.

Journalists want to have, they want to have, you know, the top of their field. You know, they want to have people who've been around for a long time or that have got new ideas, but they're qualified and they're credible. A journalist isn't, you know, if they check out your social media and there's nothing about your business or nothing about your expertise, they're going to be less likely to believe

that you are who you say you are and therefore they're going to be less likely to feature you as well. And it really is doing all you can to do as much of the journalist job as possible. So I used to be female editor at Man Online, was there for about four years. I say this figure and I'm sure it was much higher, but at any one time I would have 60,000 unread emails in my inbox.

because there was simply not enough hours in the day to do my job and to go through my inbox. So you really do need to come to an editor with your research done. You know, your pitch is nice and succinct. Please don't use AI because the problem with AI is that it removes all the detail, all the personality from your pitch and it just goes into an overview and you sound like everybody else.

and you'll really stand out if it's human, even if there are errors in there, you know, that's fine. It shows that you're human. Don't just write a stream of consciousness. Sometimes people send me just emails that go on for days and editors will not have the time to, you know, sort of go through that and try and pull out a story. You've got to have a clear idea of what you're actually pitching.

And I had somebody ask me a couple of weeks ago, they were like, oh, I find it really hard to write it. Can I send you a, you know, in video form? And I was like, yeah, sure. Okay. She sent a half an hour video. And I said to her, just don't, you know, no editor will have time to do that. So you have to get it straight in your mind or work with somebody who is able to help you along that journey because as much time as you can, you know, save a journalist.

by doing all that kind of back work, that research and writing a succinct pitch, it just, as you said, it's more reasons to say yes to that.

you mention social media because something I was going to ask is there an expectation that you have a large audience yourself for instance or an expectation that you have a very strong digital footprint because if someone is going to check you out then that's probably the easiest way at least to start that journey and I suppose what that means I'm assuming is that

If you are, if you want to be in the press, it's not a simple case of write your bio, do the research, send a pitch. There's a bit of prep there as well, so that you are preparing yourself to be attractive to them from all angles, you know, even if they were to look you up on LinkedIn or Facebook or wherever it may be. So how does your social media presence and what you talk about, like, is that part of the strategy? Do you have to really pay attention to that if you're preparing?

to get into the press.

So there are

varying degrees of that. yes, but you don't have to be across every single platform and have hundreds of thousands of followers. Obviously that does make certain things, certain types of articles easier to get because what you're showing to a publication is that...

these people have validated you in the same way that the press can validate you. The fact that you've worked with so many people, you've got so many people following you is kind of back up that you are who you say you are to some degree. But that's not to say that you won't get featured if you aren't kind of in the hundreds of thousands. You can still get...

press. But I would say before you before you start pitching and before you think of your sort of media strategy to go through your socials and make sure that your business is mentioned, make sure that you're especially I guess for your audience who are all professionals you know you'd be expected to be on LinkedIn really you'd be expected to be on some platforms especially as a business owner who is

working with members of the public, you'd be expected to have some sort of footprint. So just make sure they all marry up and that the content that you're posting is relevant so a journalist can sort of say, okay, right, you're posting about this. You're not just posting pictures of your cat, that you've got things that kind of tally into what you're talking about.

But there is definitely a steer for some publications to know that you're going to bring an audience depending on the topic. But that doesn't mean to say, you know, I'm just trying to think of my clients at the moment. And some of them have had really big follow-ins, but some of them haven't, but they're able to quantify their impact in other ways, like the number of years that they've been doing.

this job for or their qualifications or the number of people that they've helped. And that all goes to build up your credibility.

Really interesting. That's really interesting. mean, I think the biggest takeaway is that this isn't just a one and done. It's not a quick, I've decided I want to be in the press. So let me just write a pitch to a few editors. There is real strategy behind this. You have to think of your goals. I mean, you're applying what you do in your business. If you do it well, you're applying that basically to this. What do you want out of it? Prepare for it. Make sure that

If you're preparing to pitch that the content you're putting out there is gearing up to that as well, because you're kind of, if you think of it as selling something, you're sort of selling this idea that you want to talk about. Understand the publication, understand their readership or their listenership and or viewership, understand who they are and what they're interested in and the format that they like. And, you know, wrap all of that up, embed all of that and more.

into your pitch and your approach and your overall strategy. mean, it's not, it's, know, anything done well isn't a quick thing, is it? So, you know, and I think that it's very valuable that you have access to so many journalist requests. You have that insider knowledge from having been in that chair as well. If someone was interested in exploring being in the press and they really would like some coaching, they'd really like some help with that.

How do they contact you, Carol?

So I have a free

Facebook group. It's called How to Make the Headlines with Journalist Carol Driver. I'm in there every day. There's lots of opportunities to promote your business, lots of tips and advice in there. So in the first instance, just come and kind of see the things that I talk about and apply them to you, apply them to your business. But there's no, you know, there's no huge rush to suddenly be in the press tomorrow. And as you've said, doing it

well is much more beneficial for you and your business rather than thinking, you know, I need to, I need to get out there. always say to case studies and clients, don't give away your story for free. You know, don't just go and give it because as soon as you do, what's next?

If you're featured in the press once, being featured in the press once isn't really that tricky to do. If you've got a good story and you can write a decent pitch, fits an exclusive and you go to the right publication, then lots of PRs can do that. What I do is get my clients in the press every month without fail for brand aligned stories, because that's where the trust is built. That's where the credibility is built.

in the right way. yeah, do things properly, come and check out my group, ask questions, and I'm happy to help. As you can see, I'm very much for sharing the knowledge in my head because I know how beneficial it can be because I've seen the outcomes of how it can change people's businesses and people's lives.

Yeah, well, you just dropped another bit of gold dust there where, you know, don't give your entire story away. Think about your next step rather than it being this one-off flash sort of thing. So you have to, you have to, again, think very strategically about how much you're going to tell and what's the follow-on piece from that and what will you talk about next? It's like you're crafting a story, like a novel almost, aren't you? Carol, are so generous with your knowledge. I think you've answered everything with so much...

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

with so much value, but also in a way that I know that a lot of people who are listening, it will really resonate with them because I think what we talked about at the beginning with the mindset blocks and why should I do this, is probably the first thing that springs to mind for a lot of people when they're small business owners, because they know what they do is interesting. And as a small business owner, you're also in a little bubble. Even if you're quite visible, you're still visible in a niche.

And so it feels a bit weird to think, this is the outside world. This is outside of that bubble that I'm in. And I think a lot of what you've said has really helped break that down and to make it more accessible. So thank you so much.

Thank you, thank you for inviting me.