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The Critical Role of SEO in the Customer Journey
Episode 146th July 2022 • The Judd Shaw Way • Judd Shaw Injury Law
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When people search on Google, they’re likely to be faced with pages and pages of choices. So how do you stand out from the crowd, ensure that people click on your website, and eventually convert them into clients?

You have to utilize SEO strategies the right way. The first step is getting your site to the top of a search engine’s page. Most SEO strategies end after this step. You’ve gotten to the top of the Google page, so you’re getting more clients, right? Not necessarily.

For Corey Vandenberg, successful companies take it further. Once a potential client has clicked on your site, they need a reason to stay. This is where lead generation comes into play. At Corey’s company, they focus on getting potential clients to the contact page — because, to convert a lead, you have to act fast. And once these potential clients convert, your ranking goes up, giving you even more qualified leads.

But there’s another side to SEO: the client experience. Instead of looking at clients as conversion numbers, it’s crucial that you focus on their customer journey. You have to put yourself in their shoes and create an exceptional experience each step of the way.

You have to be intentional about how people visit your site, from the first click all the way through your bio page. Just like someone visiting your office, you want to create an incredible experience from the moment they enter your domain. 

Listen to this episode of The Judd Shaw Way Podcast with Judd Shaw featuring Corey Vandenberg, Co-founder of Clixsy. Together, they talk about SEO best practices, the number one page people visit on your site, how SEO can help you transform the client journey, and more.   

In this episode: 

  • [0:37] Judd Shaw introduces his guest, Corey Vandenberg
  • [01:21] Corey talks about his adventures in canyoneering and dealing with a Rambo exploding arrow
  • [06:42] How Clixsy came about — and why they specialize in personal injury law
  • [10:53] What does the journey from search to purchase look like?
  • [13:43] Corey’s lightbulb moment about consumer behaviors
  • [18:28] SEO’s influence on client service and client experience
  • [23:52] How can you find the right SEO vendor for your company?
  • [28:23] The “three R’s” that fuel Clixsy’s culture
  • [31:13] Corey’s thoughts on the future of SEO

🎙️ Featured Guest 🎙️

Name: Corey Vandenberg

Short Bio: Corey is the Co-founder of Clixsy, a full-service digital advertising agency. Corey is regarded as an expert in online search, and he has over a decade of experience in digital marketing. Previously, he was a Founding Partner at Next Door, where he specialized in search marketing, social media, copywriting, direct mail, and more.

Company: Clixsy

Connect: LinkedIn

🔑 Relevant Resources 🔑

Attorney Advertising Materials. This podcast is designed for general information purposes only. Nothing on this podcast should be taken as legal advice for an individual case or situation. This information is not intended to create, and viewing does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. No aspect of this advertisement has been approved by the Supreme Court. Any results set forth herein are based upon the facts of that particular case and do not represent a promise or guarantee. Those with legal questions should seek the advice of an attorney.

Transcripts

Voiceover:

They don't care about your 900 years of combined experience or your wall of books. They only want to know one thing. Once they've signed on the dotted line, are you going to take care of them? Welcome to the Judd Shaw Way where we believe providing an exceptional client experience is just as important as quality legal representation from secret tips for creating unforgettable wow moments to proven customer service pointers. The Judd Shaw Way is everything you need to go from being a good lawyer to owning a great brand.

Judd Shaw:

Hi everyone. Welcome to the show. I'm Judd Shaw, today's guest Corey Vandenberg of Clixsy company out of Utah, and they do some really great work. They handle industry specifics from personal entry to other industry wide companies including reputation management. Today's guest Corey. Welcome to the show.

Corey Vandenberg:

Thank you, Judd.

Judd Shaw:

I believe you're in Utah right now. Right Corey?

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah. I usually tell people that I'm in Salt Lake Cities because no one knows any cities besides Park City and Salt Lake, but we're just about 30 minutes north of Salt Lake.

Judd Shaw:

You live there?

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah. Born and raised.

Judd Shaw:

What is slot canyon?

Corey Vandenberg:

So I am into a sport called canyoneering and we... So my dad loves those jokes. Like when he hears about people who go skydiving, he's like, "You jumped out of a perfectly good airplane on purpose?" so I always tell people that I go down slot canyons on purpose. Slot canyons are down in Southern Utah where on the Colorado plateau, lots of erosion has created some canyons. There is thousands of them, but we have all the gear of ropes and all kinds of different equipment to actually descend down and explore them. And we do it pretty frequently during the season, if you will, when there's no snow.

Judd Shaw:

So what gadgets are involved?

Corey Vandenberg:

Opposite to climbing, we actually use static ropes. So there's always a lot of reading what's called beta in the industry, which is basically routes that have already been explored and then there's really intricate descriptions of here is how far down you're repelling on this particular repel and it'll list out all the different obstacles that you're going to run into. And there's a rating system that you have to understand.

Corey Vandenberg:

So the standard equipment is like a harness and a rope and then you have things like descenders and helmets. In fact, the way I met my mentor. I knew him previously, but I had no idea who was into canyoneering. And I got on Facebook because I was so excited about the fact that we had just gone down this famous canyon in Zion National Park called the Subway. And I posted all these pictures in a canyoneering group. And I had no idea what was about to happen to me, which is that I was about to get castigate for all of the rookie mistakes that we were making that were obvious from our pictures and our videos.

Corey Vandenberg:

And so he private messaged me and he's like, "Hey man. Why don't you come over and I'll talk to you about some of the things that you need to do so that you can enjoy this safely and come home to your family." So it's been about six years since I started.

Judd Shaw:

I read or heard, you were always had been a little McGyver, sort of even growing up. There's a story about you at 11, 12 or 13 years old with a Rambo explosive arrow. Can you tell the listeners a little about that one?

Corey Vandenberg:

That might be my kids favorite story. It's probably the one that gets repeated the most. I'm well known amongst my friends and family as a pyro. And I've got some great stories, but the exploding arrow in particular. So my childhood was really unsupervised. Both my parents worked. And so during the summer times, it was me, my little brother and my little sister and I was in charge.

Corey Vandenberg:

And one year I got this idea, I saw my dad's hunting arrows, and I knew where all of his ammunition was because he sometimes would do reloading. And so I had watched Rambo and my brain just started assembling this exploding arrow in my head. I was like, "Okay, I get it. I see how I could do this." So I put it in a vice and I cranked on the tip and removed the tip. So now you just have the end of a Dow rod basically. And I emptied all the buck shot out of a 12 gauge shell and I shoved the shell over the end of the arrow, duct taped it. I took one of the buck shot and I placed it on the primer and I used some of my silly putty to hold the primer or the BB on the primer.

Judd Shaw:

Right.

Corey Vandenberg:

And my dad had an old recurve bow and I stood probably 50 yards or so back from his garage, that just makes perfect sense. Right? Aim your exploding arrow at your dad's garage. And I drew back on that bow and I was just aiming at the garage and I let that guy go and I hear and the arrow fletching hit my ear as it was coming back past me. So I learned the equal and opposite reaction law of the universe that day. And I don't know how I didn't impale myself or light myself on fire somehow made it through my childhood. But that was definitely one of the more entertaining inventions of my youth.

Judd Shaw:

So you go from building explosives arrows, every boy who saw probably Rambo, including myself thought that was cool, but you actually figured it out.

Corey Vandenberg:

I wanted to.

Judd Shaw:

t happened I guess I think in:

Corey Vandenberg:

Became a thing.

Judd Shaw:

Became a thing. Before that was actually cool. You did that and Google launched maps, I think at that time. And that's when you jumped into it, tell us a little about Clixsy.

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah. Real quick. So we've been through several different iterations of the company. It's always been my business partner, William. It's kind of one of those weird sort of right hand turns in life where you end up where you never would've guessed. At the time we were actually buying houses and flipping them. And we had started goofing around with this Google thing because we figured out that you could keyword stuff, which is basically spam. We could just spam the maps and we would rank for all these real estate terms.

Corey Vandenberg:

for gigs. And then of course,:

Judd Shaw:

Wow. Now I think you've managed over 20 million in PIPPC leads.

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah.

Judd Shaw:

And PPC buys.

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah.

Judd Shaw:

Are you doing SEO for other than personal injury lawyers?

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah. When I talk about us having a particular expertise, I don't want to say that there's no advantage to it because certainly knowing your industry and understanding your business model is definitely an advantage. And particularly being able to speak to the prospect. But having said that, in many respects, SEO is agnostic. The principles that work for casino works for injury and for plumber and so on and so forth.

Corey Vandenberg:

However, we do some really interesting stuff. Of course, injury happens to be one of the most competitive niches in the world as far as SEO is concerned. And that has translated really well into working with some celebrities and really high profile executives when they sometimes have reputation issues or lawsuits or different things that they want cleaned up because I often tell people and I think this is true for everyone, even if you're not a celebrity, but I firmly believe that in today's age, the first page of Google has become your resume. It is your CV. People are going to search you by name at some point in the process of choosing you.

Judd Shaw:

Yeah. You talk about agnostic by industry. And that to me means that the life cycle of somebody going into Google or Yahoo, wherever, and for something that looks consistent, whatever industry that may be. So if somebody is going into looking for tire sales or a personal injury, that happens similarly, doesn't it?

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah. For sure. And Googled I think talks probably about this idea that you just described probably more so than any other particular or granular detail of like SEO or pay-per-click. They talk about the journey from search to purchase or checkout or hire or whatever it is they're doing. And I think it's worth to point out that like if that's the case, if that's what Google focuses on more so than loopholes and tricks and tactics, it would be wise for us to do the same for sure.

Judd Shaw:

What does that look like? What does that journey look like?

Corey Vandenberg:

In context of injury law, I think I can describe what it looks like, but I also think that there are some aspects of it that are highly overlooked by a lot of firms. For example, the one that I just brought up a few minutes ago about your CV or your resume being the first page of Google for your name. I think that's highly underrated. What it looks like is people will go do a non-branded search at what I call the moment of choice.

Corey Vandenberg:

In fact, Google often refers to this as the zero moment of choice. So in the past the old school advertisers used to talk about the moment of choice being at your local grocery's freezer. And they were kind of putting it in the context of like you have eight seconds to grab their attention because they're about to pick up something out of the freezer.

Corey Vandenberg:

So Google started talking about this idea and they nicknamed it Zemot, which just stands for zero moment of truth. And they were basically saying that window had shifted away from the grocery's freezer to search engines. And then that really is where the moment of choice happens. So I think what's probably most salient for an injury law firm to understand is that I think they tend to look at that moment in a vacuum as if you could simply say like, "Oh, well that person called me off of my PPC ad. And so therefore PPC got me that conversion."

Corey Vandenberg:

And what I like ask people is, put yourself in the shoes of that person who was injured. And then imagine a scenario where you are sitting there and you've just done a non-branded search. You've been in your market for 15 years on the page what are you seeing? You're seeing the local service at the top. You're seeing the pay per click ads below that, you're seeing the maps and then the organic results.

Corey Vandenberg:

If you imagine being that person and remember that it's a non-branded search. If you are one of those choices in that top section and no one's ever heard of you, but the other six or so options are people who have a really, really strong brand. It may be the case that LSA, PPC or Maps ends up getting the call. But to an extent there's a blended conversion happening there where brand is absolutely a portion of the recognition, oh, I know that. Oh, I'm going to read their reviews. Oh, let me search out this guy.

Corey Vandenberg:

And I think what really became a big, huge light bulb moment for me was one day we were going through and we decided to do a little internal study because of a software platform that we own. We had analytics hooked up to hundreds of personal injury law sites. And collectively we examined somewhere in the neighborhood of about 20 million visits on personal injury law sites. And I saw a trend emerging that I thought was really illuminating about the journey to becoming a client. What would you guess Judd out of 20 million visits if you had to guess between the homepage, the car accident page or your personal bio, which one do you think out of those gets the number one amount of visits?

Judd Shaw:

Well, we do ask our clients and what they're searching from, the feedback I've heard is generally they really love to go to results. They love to go to the attorney page, which is my bio or the attorney who's handling their case. So they can go to that bio. If I assign the case to a different lawyer, they're reading that bio. We see that. Right?

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah.

Judd Shaw:

So I would have to go with maybe my bio.

Corey Vandenberg:

Number one on every single one of the websites, not the homepage, not the case type page, and yet when we go through the design process of building those sites 90 cents of our design dollar gets spent on-

Judd Shaw:

Homepage.

Corey Vandenberg:

Homepage.

Judd Shaw:

[crosstalk:

Corey Vandenberg:

Vanilla as can be. Usually if you have more than a paragraph. Oh yeah. Entirely. So I think what it looks like to go by, and with all that background, what I think it looks like is people are unaware or they're aware of a particular brand until they need you when they need you. I think the majority of them do non-branded searches, but then brand ends up being what creates a tipping point once they see their choices and then they go on your website.

Corey Vandenberg:

Now from there, Google refers to this moment as the messy middle. And I think it's an apt description because they're going to do one of several things, read your review, read your bio tool around and look at case results maybe they watch some of your videos but it's some combination of those things then they're going to reach out. And at that point, obviously your ability to sign them up turns over to your intake and the firm's ability at that point. But I think that it's pretty consistent that that's what the journey for somebody looks like.

Judd Shaw:

It sounds like to me, I want to catch them in that messy middle in standing out from the crowd. I think of it like there's a service, so somebody's involved at least in my industry involved in a motor vehicle accident compared to the person who's got a flat tire or needs new tires. So they have a need and they're using Google to search for information to fill that need. And that's what we call a lead.

Judd Shaw:

And in order to convert that lead, we have to stand out in the crowd to capture them to do more than just look at that information, but take an action, fill out a contact page, call us, fill out an inquiry, whatever. And then we need to act fast because we're going to be judged on that. They want an immediate, what is it like when they call, does somebody answer the phone?

Judd Shaw:

Are they sent through a whole long phone tree? Is it frustrating? Is somebody sound pleasant and informative. And so that's their gut check coming out of the messy middle in choosing the person. And I think of the messy middle is like all the research papers and the books and everything that they're trying to gather as if it was a hard copy rather than online. And in online the SEO search engine optimization simply means trying to get us in front of that person being part of the messy middle. Right?

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah.

Judd Shaw:

But the other side of it, the client side of it, and I have to say being fully transparent, I'm a Clixsy client. So Judd Shaw Injury Law uses Clixsy for our SEO. We're very pleased with the service we've been provided so far. It's been great. I think we see a big difference and we're not getting anything out of this between you and I, it's just me bringing you on is a way to bring to the listeners another resource, another information, clearing up that messy middle.

Judd Shaw:

So anybody who is in client service with SEO, this would be a great topic because when I think of client service, I think of what we often talk about is what happens when someone walks in the office? Does the receptionist have a great smile that ambassador of your first impression of the office? Do they make a positive one? Do they ask for a or anything, want something for water or do they wait a long time? All that is client service. And we can still see that in a different way online. When they go to the website, are they getting the information? Is the information pleasant? Is the information readily available? Is it fast? All of those things still happen. So there is an effective client service on the SEO side.

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And I think this really speaks to something I've been evangelizing for the past year or so and that is that I really believe that you are going to start seeing over the next two to five years, a sort of a blending of disciplines to where I don't know that in five years, I don't know that it'll even make sense for somebody to say, "Oh, they do SEO. And they do pay per click and those guys websites." because I think what's happening. And it speaks really to this principle of client service and client experience. If you go back and I'm a big fan, no matter what you talk to me about, whether it be NBA basketball, canyoneering air, my Jeep, or SEO or marketing, I'm always going to go back to bedrock principles because I love the things that don't change, particularly when we're trying to figure out what is that in relation to all the things that will change.

Corey Vandenberg:

None of us can control Google, none of us has a looking glass into what they're going to do except that there are bedrock principles and we can listen to what they do tell us, and sort of ascertain from that, where they're headed. The thing they've always been saying all along, you go read their mission statement and their mission is to organize and make the world's information useful and accessible.

Corey Vandenberg:

They're trying to do precisely what you just described happening in an offline environment, in an online environment. So to the degree that's true, I really believe that we are needing to move more in a direction of thinking through the experience far more than the granular tactics. Okay. It's like, for example, when somebody arrives on your site where they go should be used as a breadcrumb for you to think through like, well maybe what if I took that thing that they just went and searched for and what if I made it easier for them to find on the homepage? I really believe that if it isn't already, I really believe that's going to be an integral piece to quote doing SEO in the future.

Judd Shaw:

Well, it means that you're even being intentional about how you want someone to visit your site as much as if you'd want them to visit your office.

Corey Vandenberg:

A hundred percent.

Judd Shaw:

When I walk around my office, there was a lot of time I looked into what does that reception desk look like? What does it need? What are the supplies? Where is the couch? Where are the waiting room? Where's the next place they're going? Let me walk along, make sure there's not garbage and stuff that I don't want to like looking at on the way to the next office that they're going to be at. And what is that? Is that comfortable? Is that an environment? It's that same thing. So same principle. It's still a client service. You're just not the engaging in that same way. But if you're intentional about it, you really are on the back end.

Corey Vandenberg:

A hundred percent in fact, for the last year or so, I've been telling the people I speak to about when they come to me and say, "My website is outdated." And we have this thing in the personal injury space where everybody hears about on average once every year to two or three years. Oh, it's time we're going to refresh the website. And then what happens is this, I think they arrive at everything nine times out of 10, purely based on gut instinct and preference.

Corey Vandenberg:

And in many cases, it comes down to, they look around and say, who in the market is successful and then in their mind, they somehow skip to the conclusion that they're successful, at least in part, because this thing that I've identified like their website design. So, all right. We're just going to follow their lead and to use, there's a metaphor I love using all the time and that's that the... I think most of the time when we do that, we're just really copying off someone else's paper, and we better hope it's not the dumbest kid in class.

Judd Shaw:

Yeah. You don't know what you don't know though. And so that's a great segue into how does someone determine the right vendor for them? My office looks and feels a certain way, and I wanted that intentionally for culture collaboration. It's a big open floor plan. They're not tons and tons of offices. I don't want everybody qued away into four corners of a room, not engaging with the rest of the team. I always believe that if my lawyers are talking to each other and support, our cases are going to be worked up better. So we've created that environment, the same thing with our reception area. We didn't really want people sitting in like a waiting room with other clients so we have a client lounge which allows for your access to move around and also be triaged in a more personalized way.

Judd Shaw:

So all of these were intentional. So if I want that, I'm going to go and say, "Okay, I want to design my office. I'm not picking an interior decorator that is all wood paneled and traditional." That's great. A lot of law firms have that, not my style. So I'm going to pick somebody, but I can generally see a portfolio. Maybe they take me to an office they've done. Maybe I see pictures. So when I'm going to choose my SEO provider, my vendor, the person who's going to make my online experience the way I would have my office experience. But all I know Corey is that when I go to Google, I can type in google.com, the bar comes up and it allows me to search anything in the world and I get information on. That's what I know.

Judd Shaw:

zard behind wizard [inaudible:

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah.

Judd Shaw:

And more importantly, is it really? And the most thing is what I can see when I hire an interior decorator that comes to my office in the inquiry, I see what that reception desk looks like. I see what the couch looks like. I can physically feel it and see it. Online you can't do that because a lot of stuff's on the back end. What would you say to people who are searching for a vendor, a company to work with? What kind of questions? What should they be looking at?

Corey Vandenberg:

It's something we could spend an entire episode and maybe two on, I think there's a lot of facets, but I'll try high level to hit some of the things I think matter the most. The one I'll start with is, and selfishly, I'm going to use a quote from one of my longest standing clients, Richard Harris, out of Vegas. He often says that the reason we still work together is because we've stood the test of time.

Corey Vandenberg:

And I'll tell you nobody has played home harder to get than that man. I love Rick to death. But it took a long time for us to earn his trust. And so having a track record of real results obviously is one of the first things you should look for. And I don't think that you can just easily come across a group of past and existing clients without being able to have some merit.

Corey Vandenberg:

So asking others what their experience has been is certainly I would take their word for it over my own. I'm going to be biased. The other thing I would look for is like, you mentioned the importance within your own law firm of developing intentionally the culture. And I think that the culture always flows from leadership like a hundred percent of the time, whether it's intentional or not, that will happen and I can't think of anything that matters more to William and I than the Clixsy culture. We talk about it constantly. And maybe if that's 1A, 1B is getting results for the clients. And I really do think it goes in that order because one follows the other.

Judd Shaw:

I agree.

Corey Vandenberg:

Because of our culture, they're going to get results. Internally we talk about something called the 3Rs which is results, relationship and reporting. And we live and die by those values that we will always work to protect and to develop and build those. Obviously track record also is going to leave clues. So who we've worked with, I think matters and I'm not trying to make this into a pitch for me, but generally speaking, who the agency has worked with obviously speaks volumes. And it's not something I would look at in a vacuum, but as I remember learning back in the day from lawyers that there's a concept called the totality of the circumstance. So that's one piece of evidence that you should definitely put in there.

Corey Vandenberg:

Another thing that I think matters quite a bit is I really highly value candidness and the humility to say, "We screwed that up. That was our bad, we'll fix it." But admitting mistakes. We've got some great results, but we're not perfect. And so I think if you can kind of look for some of those characteristics, I will say this too, I think the job at hand or the job to be done matters a lot because I think that there are certain things that require specialists. Ranking for the most difficult keywords in the world requires some specialization.

Corey Vandenberg:

On the other hand, I think there are certain tasks that can be done in a very efficient, very automated way. So you're going to want to evaluate that and what is it I'm trying to get accomplished? I also think too, the difficulty in choosing of provider, at least in part is that there's so much vernacular and terminology and it's moving and constantly changing.

Judd Shaw:

True.

Corey Vandenberg:

That's partially why I value the candor so much is because I would say at least 20% of my week on average is me talking to the CMOs or the marketing directors or the founders of the firm and they'll be, "Hey, I got this email. Hey, I was at this conference, I saw this thing. I don't even know what they're talking about, but it sounds cool. Should we do it?" And that's a huge part of my week is just simply breaking down the vernacular and allowing them... I like that you use wizard of Oz is like, honestly, a lot of times I'm just peeking back behind the curtain for them and saying, "There you go. That's what's really going on."

Judd Shaw:

Speaking change, Corey, where do you see the big change in three, five years in search engine optimization?

Corey Vandenberg:

AI. I think that AI is going to revolutionize the digital marketing industry in ways that we really probably can't even fully conceive. But I think that there's two big things that I would be paying attention to. One is the degree to which AI is going to replace certain roles. I think that, for example I mentioned earlier that I've spent lot of other people's money on pay per click and that job its days are numbered. Google is going to do that portion. Google's going to handle... In fact, they almost already do now. But it's coming the days coming in which they're going to do the budgets, the bids, the creative, they're going to write all the copy, they're going to do all the targeting, they're going to do all the BI the building of audiences. So then it's like, well, what is my job at that point?

Corey Vandenberg:

And I think that the problem that we're going to have is one of data, sanitization machines always are going to have this problem of the age old adage of garbage and garbage out. And I've been telling people right now that I still think that to a degree pay per click for personal injury law firms right now is a bit broken. And what I mean by that is that you take e-commerce and it's a closed loop transaction. Google can see the search, the visit, what they did, the checkout, and they can see details about the individual. They have their credit card information, they've got their credit bureau information, they've got all kinds of stuff. So they can sort of piece that whole puzzle together and come up with a way to predict, well, who else would be interested in this widget. Who gets hurt is completely random.

Corey Vandenberg:

There's no major commonalities between that. Now we can talk about some ways in which there's commonalities, but not as far as Google is concerned. So we have a problem with the data that's both going in and coming out. And I think that's going to be a sweet spot for digital agencies is figuring out how they can be a sort of a liaison in sanitizing and providing that data, interpreting it is always going to be necessary.

Corey Vandenberg:

I think that you're going to see, as I described earlier, sort of a movement of SEO and pay per click and web development, all sort of merging into one discipline. So I look at it like this with regards to pay per click, I think what we do right now in terms of adding content to our websites for the purposes of SEO is going to be the precursor to what targets and writes, copy, and creative for the pay per click ads of the future.

Judd Shaw:

Interesting.

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah. So that's where I see things headed.

Judd Shaw:

I've seen already, although I think it's too early to really be effective where they're trying to talking about AI, where somebody would go and they're involved in an accident. And so they don't search direct brand and they also don't search terms like personal injury attorney in New Jersey. What they do do is they search police department, Lynn Hurst, New Jersey because they're trying to get a police report. Maybe they call from there, from Google. They may have typed in the hospital or a chiropractor somewhere in New Jersey. And so what happens is AI, the Google is picking up that they're searching for these things. They're not terms, but they're things and if you put the things together it means somebody's been involved in an accident

Corey Vandenberg:

A hundred percent.

Judd Shaw:

And so now they're searching and they go on Google and suddenly out of the blue they the contact Judd Shaw Injury Law. Had in an accident, demand justice, need compensation contact us. And so that person does it, but they were involved in an accident but at that point they may not have already been thinking about an attorney. And then AI is almost like bringing that out early.

Judd Shaw:

I've seen some iterations of it. I don't think it's great so far because what I have seen is the people that are... Really out of those there're so few actual leads that can be converted to cases because the AI hasn't learned enough. So you get this information from this person and they contact you, they fill out something and you contact them and it turns out that they just need a referral to a chiropractor or they're trying to get help with having to get a police report or something. Right?

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah.

Judd Shaw:

But it's some cool stuff. It's amazing.

Corey Vandenberg:

Yeah. What you just described has been sort of my white whale for the past four or five years. I've spoken to 20 or so outfits that claim to be building that system that you just described and not yet have I ever found one that lives up to the promise?

Judd Shaw:

Yeah. Well, Corey, if somebody wants to get in touch with Clixsy and get more information from you, how do we go about doing that?

Corey Vandenberg:

Clixsy.com C-L-I-X-S-Y.com. If you leave out the S you will end up buying a watch from somebody in the UK. You can Google us. And our Google business profile has a phone number and it goes straight to me.

Judd Shaw:

Corey, thanks so much for coming on today. Really appreciate it. Some really great information and keep doing the great work man.

Corey Vandenberg:

Judd, you're the man. Thank you, sir.

Judd Shaw:

Thanks buddy.

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