Episode Description:

Faith and healing, divorce recovery, and real-life resilience—this candid conversation with nurse Lisa Sander explores how to reconnect with God, yourself, and others. We unpack frontline lessons from COVID, practical tools for divorce recovery, and why kindness, listening, and humility transform families and communities. Centered on faith and healing, we discuss ending perfectionism, finding your voice after 40, and choosing love over fear. If you’re ready to pursue faith and healing in everyday life, this episode offers grounded stories, hope, and next steps. You’ll hear how faith and healing can guide hard conversations, co-parenting, and calling.

Timestamps (in parentheses):

(00:00) Introduction to authentic, unscripted conversation and today’s themes

(02:38) Guest shares insights on nursing: calling, compassion, and reconnecting with God & others

(06:05) Divorce recovery and healing: finding courage, setting needs, choosing respect

(10:12) COVID frontline lessons: leadership, humility, and doing the next right thing

(14:27) National grief & unity: listening across differences, choosing kindness over fear

(18:40) Judgment vs. discernment: how to truly hear someone’s story

(22:58) Failure as formation: “third time’s the light” and growing through setbacks

(26:30) Parenting & teens through change: stability, honesty, and co-parenting well

(30:02) Retreats & service: Christian couples retreat and a Minnesota nonprofit vision

(33:15) Takeaways & encouragement: ending cycles, finding your voice after 40+

Key Takeaways:

• 
  
• 
  
• Faith and healing begin with listening—at home, in marriage, and in community.
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• Courageous honesty and humble apologies soften defensiveness and rebuild trust.
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• Divorce recovery is possible with respect, clarity on needs, and child-first co-parenting.
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• Failure can form you: resilience grows when you keep showing up with God.
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• Kindness is leadership—choose it in conversations, online, and at the checkout line.
• 
  
• 
  

Guest Bio:

Lisa Sander is a Med-Surg charge nurse, podcast co-host of Our Healer, Our Protector, and a Christian coach who helps women and couples reconnect with themselves, each other, and God. Drawing from 24+ years in nursing and her own life transitions, Lisa supports divorce recovery, relational healing, and purpose after 40.

Resource Links:

• 
  
• 
  
• Watch Our Healer, Our Protector on YouTube — https://youtube.com/@ourhealerourprotector?feature=shared
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• Connect with Lisa Sander — [insert website or social link]
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• Lesa Koski — https://lesakoski.com
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• Couples Retreat (Arizona) — [insert lin

Tags/Keywords:

faith and healing, divorce recovery, women over 40 podcast, Christian women, kindness and unity, judgment vs discernment, co-parenting, resilience, nurse story, COVID frontline lessons, finding your voice, ending perfectionism, Christian couples retreat, Minnesota nonprofit, Our Healer Our Protector, Lisa Sander

Welcome listeners.

2

I am thrilled to have you here today.

3

And it's funny, I've got my guest,

Lisa Sander, and I'm gonna introduce

4

her in a second, but it's cute.

5

We just, were monkeying around with

like equipment, the blind leading the

6

blind we're like working up sweats here.

7

Trying to, I You're sweating.

8

I know.

9

I don't know if it's a hot flash.

10

I'm just trying to get this, this voice.

11

This echoing to stuff.

12

I think we're good.

13

And I told Lisa, I'm like, I'm just

getting to know her, but I'm really

14

excited because of what I know about you.

15

I know a little bit about you, and so

I just said, Hey, let's just go on and

16

make this really authentic and I have no

idea where this is going and, but it's

17

gonna be good because we're talking to

someone who was a nurse and now she's

18

got a calling to help people reconnect

with themselves with one another.

19

With God.

20

And I feel like, can I be

in the healing chair today?

21

Speaker 2: Oh, yes, yes.

22

That's what I, um, I still work

at the hospital, so, um, I'm doing

23

both, but I want to transition.

24

To where we're at right now,

25

Speaker: where we're sitting right now.

26

And our, and, and if I might say

too, Lisa, you're a nurse, you're

27

the co-host of our healer, our

protector, which I, I haven't

28

listened to yet, but it's on YouTube.

29

Yep, too.

30

And I'm gonna go take a listen and, um.

31

Learn more about you, but I know

that you help people going through

32

divorce, and I do too, but I'm kind

of just more like generally helping

33

women 40 and beyond to have better

lives, help them through hard things.

34

And so that's why I think.

35

This is going to be a

really great conversation.

36

Would you just share your authentic

story, where you come from, and what

37

led you to do what you're doing today?

38

Speaker 2: Yes.

39

Uh, I grew up in a Christian family with

hardships, alcoholism, um, dysfunction

40

and love all at the same time.

41

Growing from there, I've

always gone to church.

42

Um, in sixth grade, I started taking care

of the handicapped child next door to

43

us who had, um, he had cerebral palsy.

44

He had dealt, I had to give

him seizure medication.

45

I had my best friend help me.

46

We both babysat for them, and I was

picking up a child who was older than

47

me and putting him in a wheelchair.

48

Speaker 3: Oh,

49

Speaker 2: I've, I've dreamt,

uh, since I was in sixth grade, I

50

think I told, um, I have a thing

that said I wanted to be a nurse.

51

I wanted to learn how to play the guitar

and, um, earn $200 for the summer.

52

I'm still trying to earn

$200 for the summer.

53

I have the guitar, haven't learned, but

I am a nurse and I'm very proud of it.

54

Speaker: Awesome.

55

Good for you.

56

Yes.

57

My daughter-in-law is a nurse, a labor

and delivery nurse, and my, my daughter is

58

a medical doctor and she always knew it.

59

She was a little girl.

60

She knew.

61

She knew what grade school she wanted

to go to 'cause they taught Latin.

62

I mean, it's pretty cool.

63

I wish I had that, you know, I mean,

my daughter-in-law too, always, I

64

felt, feel like they always knew

that that's what they were gonna do.

65

What a gift.

66

My son just needs to pass his

67

Speaker 2: boards and

he's a nurse, so Yay.

68

At that stage.

69

Um, my daughter just told me, um, she

wants to deliver babies, so she wants

70

to be a labor and delivery nurse.

71

Speaker: That's what my

daughter-in-law does.

72

Speaker 2: Awesome.

73

Yeah, so, um, I've

always, um, been driven.

74

By, um, Jesus in my steps through

life, um, imperfect Christian.

75

Um, I've always had a calling to do more.

76

Um, I was married for, uh, Jack's

23, uh, 22, 23 years, um, and

77

I've always been a loyal person.

78

I've been hurt through, um,

people that I've loved the most.

79

And, but I, people always ask

like, how do you keep going?

80

How do you like stand up?

81

Um, I'm one of those people, if

you stick me down a tunnel and I'm

82

like, people are going by to help,

I'm like, oh, I'm digging myself

83

up, like I'm getting out of here.

84

So I've always been a go-getter

and I still find joy and

85

God has always shown me.

86

Um, I, it comes in threes for me of.

87

Failing three times and that

third time he shows me the light.

88

And I'm so grateful for those failures

'cause I wouldn't be where I am today.

89

And the courage, when you talked about

how you guide women to, um, become their

90

best selves after 40 to find themselves

while I'm 51 going on, I'm almost 52.

91

And, um, you can create yourself

and we like, it's my second

92

chance and I want to serve.

93

I wanna serve people and I

want them to, um, be inspired.

94

I wanna inspire other people and be in

my, I'm not a therapist, I am a nurse.

95

I have wisdom through nursing and all the

people that I've helped through healing.

96

And, um, if you listen to our podcast,

you're gonna see a very emotional

97

Ryan and Lisa, if you start from the

beginning and now you see us now.

98

And I'm seeing my healing.

99

If I would've had a podcast with you

early on, I would've made it all about me.

100

Or if I would've had you at a guess, I

would've felt everything and I would've

101

been crying and thinking about me.

102

But now when I have people on the podcast,

I can focus on them because I'm healing.

103

When we're not healed, we focus

on ourselves so much, it's

104

hard to help other people.

105

So now if you go through the progress

with our podcast, you get to see our light

106

coming through and how we can help others.

107

And, um, going through divorce is hard.

108

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

109

Speaker 2: Um, when people make

that decision, they're very brave.

110

'cause it's the hardest, one

of the hardest things to ever.

111

For me to go through.

112

Um, I've had different stages in my

life that is hard, but because of

113

all the hard I've had in the past,

I was able to handle this hard.

114

Speaker: Yeah.

115

And I think, um, I haven't

been through a divorce.

116

I've been married for 34 years, so

it was really, oh, congratulations.

117

Odd that I worked in divorce.

118

For so long, you know, but my heart,

but I still had such a heart, you know?

119

Oh, yeah.

120

Such a heart for wanting to help.

121

And, and I had, you know, you don't need a

surgeon that's been through your surgery.

122

You need a good surgeon.

123

So I, I felt like that's what

I was doing and I'm, I'm moving

124

away from that a little more.

125

And I went through a heart

where they caught, um, stage one

126

breast cancer and it was hard.

127

It was, um, that's, I mean, I

had to go through everything.

128

I had to go through surgery,

chemo, radiation, and, um.

129

And, you know, you talk about healing

and I ha I wouldn't take it back.

130

I have, I mean, I'm writing a book.

131

It's like, it was the most amazing,

life changing, total surrender

132

to God that I have been through.

133

Mm-hmm.

134

And yet I'm still healing,

you know what I mean?

135

Yeah.

136

Like, I'm, I don't think I'm

gonna be done until I'm dead.

137

Speaker 2: Exactly.

138

Right.

139

Speaker: And you know, Lisa, as

we're sitting here, I've gotta

140

like, I wanna go back to talk

about your failing three times.

141

I wanna go back and talk about that, but

before we, we get there, I, this is kind

142

of, um, and I am a happy, fun person

and the sun's coming out here right now.

143

Yay.

144

And I'm like, it's a happy day,

but it kind of isn't a happy day

145

because it's been a hard day.

146

And, you know, we, I've got a

daughter, my babies at GCU and she,

147

um, feels like she knew Charlie Kirk

148

Speaker 3: and, you

149

Speaker: know, that was so sorry.

150

Yeah.

151

Well, no, it's.

152

So sorry for everyone.

153

Oh, for everyone in their family.

154

Everyone.

155

Mm-hmm.

156

Everyone.

157

And I just want this

beautiful country to heal.

158

And as I got up today, I am

like, what can this 57-year-old

159

grandma do to help the world?

160

Because I, I mean, I truly am at a

point where I'm like, use me God.

161

Mm-hmm.

162

You know?

163

Um, I don't wanna be afraid.

164

And I think the thing that hit

me is I am just getting to the

165

point where I'm finding my voice.

166

As a woman, as a people pleaser,

as going through things that

167

I don't wanna be afraid.

168

And then is this gonna

instill more fear in people?

169

Because we just need to be kind.

170

Mm-hmm.

171

We need to listen to each other.

172

We need to heal.

173

Like we need to heal individually,

but our country needs to heal.

174

I think.

175

Oh, I mean, and I'm not

talking from any side.

176

I don't care what side.

177

I don't either.

178

You're on.

179

We all need to listen.

180

I don't wanna hear anyone talking

about the other side in this, because

181

we are not against each other.

182

We are all children of

God and I just, amen.

183

So today is a little bit heavy, you know?

184

And I, it's heavy.

185

I'm like, yeah, I can't kind, I

kind of can't pretend that it's not.

186

So I just had to bring that up because

I think we're gonna talk about that

187

a little bit as we move along here.

188

Oh yeah.

189

Um.

190

Speaker 2: I didn't know a lot

about him, so I actually last

191

night, um, followed him on, um, his

Instagram and I'm in awe of him.

192

Mm-hmm.

193

I was so taken back.

194

I'm like, oh my gosh.

195

He truly did listen to people.

196

He let them have their voice.

197

Debate is so important, and it's not

to change someone's mind, but it's

198

to like, why do we go to college?

199

It's to see the whole picture.

200

Speaker: Yep.

201

Speaker 2: Um, as a therapist or a

nurse, like we see the whole picture

202

of everyone and all we need is love and

it's okay to have the hard questions.

203

It's okay to disagree and, um.

204

What the devil wants us to do is quit.

205

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

206

Speaker 2: And I am not quitting

and you are not gonna quit

207

because we have to keep going.

208

And, um, they wa whoever they, people

want us to be scared and not speak out.

209

I, my heart goes out.

210

To their, his children.

211

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

212

His

213

Speaker 2: family and

everybody that knows him.

214

Um, this is where I get emotional.

215

Um, but what we can't do, um, and he

would not want us to, not knowing him,

216

but I, he would not want us to keep.

217

Quiet and love.

218

Our love has to come in with our family.

219

Our, we have, you know, people always

say, why can't our country get along?

220

Well, our families can't get along.

221

Exactly.

222

Hello?

223

Exactly.

224

You're mad at your neighbor.

225

You're mad at your Yes.

226

And that's, we have to

start at home and Yep.

227

Surround yourself with people that

inspire you and show you love.

228

We're not gonna get all into all of

this because there's some family members

229

that are not healthy and good for you.

230

Speaker: Right.

231

Speaker 2: All of that.

232

Right.

233

Speaker: Well, maybe we can

talk about that a little bit.

234

Yeah.

235

Yeah.

236

I mean, let's talk about that a little,

because I so hear what you're saying.

237

And Lisa, that is like my, my goal.

238

Is to be kind to my husband.

239

You know how you can be like, yeah.

240

And it's like, okay,

let's just start here.

241

Yeah.

242

Like, I don't wanna just be kind

to, you know, other people Yeah.

243

Outside, but I don't

even know it has inside.

244

Yes.

245

And you know, I think what made

me so sad is I think back, and I

246

am, I'm mature, you know, I think

back to when I was in law school or

247

even just a little bit after that.

248

I had the opportunity, and in college I

did have the opportunity to be friends

249

and love people who thought completely

opposite me, and we actually could sit

250

down and talk about abortion and have

two different sides and not get mad.

251

We listen and that's why I think we have

such a hard time knowing what the truth

252

is because no one's willing to listen.

253

They grab onto their team.

254

It's not like that.

255

It's not about getting on a team,

it's about listening and being kind.

256

Speaker 2: Everyone has

different circumstances.

257

Speaker: Yes.

258

Speaker 2: We are not here to

judge someone's circumstance

259

until you walk in their shoes.

260

You have no idea.

261

Um, and we all changed 10, like

my thinking of me being 21 to 30,

262

one to 41 to 51, I have changed.

263

Um.

264

I would've like you talk about abortion.

265

No one likes to talk about this stuff.

266

In a million years, I never

thought I would have an abortion.

267

Um, but I had, uh, cystic

fibrosis in my family.

268

Oh, oh man.

269

And both my children had

a one in four chance.

270

And for the first time in my entire

life, I never would choose abortion.

271

But I was faced with that question.

272

And you know what?

273

Thank you Jesus, that I didn't have

to even make a decision because Jack's

274

a carrier and Grace is not a carrier.

275

Um, and I, um, I did in vitro one

out of, um, I had eight eggs and.

276

Uh, one outta my eight eggs

did not have cystic fibrosis.

277

Speaker: Wow.

278

Speaker 2: So, um, I've lost two babies

through in vitro and, um, I, I wanted

279

five kids and I have two, and I'm so

thankful and they're healthy and happy.

280

Mm-hmm.

281

But, um.

282

Where was I going with this?

283

Well, I think,

284

Speaker: I think we,

yeah, we were talking Yes.

285

Circumstances,

286

Speaker 2: like

287

Speaker: don't, yes.

288

Let people tell their story.

289

Yeah.

290

When you can sit down and listen

to where they're coming from and

291

maybe repeat it back and say.

292

Okay, let me, is this what you're saying?

293

Yeah.

294

That's how you really listen and,

and learn and understand and maybe

295

there, maybe there's more gray than

we know, but I think what makes me

296

sad is I think about my children and

my grandchildren, and I don't think

297

that they have had the opportunity.

298

To have situations where they can

freely discuss things and still

299

love the people, love the people

that you have different ideas.

300

Then listen to them value their

I, you know, I don't know.

301

So I just think it's just a, it's

a weird day and you know, of course

302

this isn't gonna come out the day

we, we record, but not long after.

303

This is nine 11 too.

304

Yeah.

305

So, you know, I wake up in the

morning and I'm gonna watch.

306

Yeah, I'm gonna see what's going

on with, with Charlie and if

307

they've found anyone and mm-hmm.

308

And then it's, you know, all the

nine 11 and then you relive that.

309

'cause I was there.

310

Oh, of course.

311

I remember.

312

I remember, you know,

that was a scary day.

313

It was a scary day.

314

So there's lots of prayers

and I love our country.

315

We had so a beautiful, beautiful

country with so many opportunities

316

and um, I'm just gonna pray for it.

317

Speaker 2: So am I.

318

Um, if I could change the world,

I, I answered this in another,

319

um, interview and that was love.

320

Speaker: Yeah.

321

Speaker 2: Um, when you're having

a bad day, why does someone

322

else have to have your bad day?

323

Yeah.

324

Like when you go out to the grocery store,

um, you know, COVID changed this too.

325

There's not a lot of workers or people

wanting to do certain jobs anymore.

326

Well, those are our

children having those jobs.

327

So I don't ignore when I'm out

either when someone's being rude

328

to somebody at Starbucks 'cause

they're upset about a coffee.

329

I'm like, first of all, like that's

someone's child you're talking to.

330

Right?

331

And you want them to respect you.

332

Well you need to show them respect back.

333

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

334

Speaker 2: If you're coffee,

you're privileged 'cause you get

335

to buy a coffee and it was wrong.

336

Um, you can talk to them politely and

say, could you please change this?

337

This isn't how I thought

it was gonna be made.

338

Right.

339

Um, if you show them respect

and give them patience.

340

That's how we teach each other.

341

Speaker: Well, that's,

that's the whole point.

342

You know, that's, yeah.

343

That's why we're living Exactly.

344

I mean, and we are better

learning from others.

345

So, um, I don't know.

346

That's, that's where I'm kind sitting

today just to be authentic and true,

347

because that's what I like to do.

348

If I could hug

349

Speaker 2: you, I'd give you a big.

350

Hug.

351

Aw, I love that.

352

And, and just knowing that

we're talking about this and

353

our love goes out to everybody.

354

Yeah.

355

And we pray for everybody.

356

And the lives that he touched

personally, family and friends.

357

I am so sorry.

358

And it's heartbreaking 'cause he was 31.

359

Mm-hmm.

360

31 years old.

361

Look what he did.

362

To bring up conversations with

our college students and give them

363

the freedom to talk and debate.

364

And he would thank them.

365

He would be like, oh my gosh,

thank you for being so brave to

366

have this conversation with me.

367

Yeah.

368

We need more of that.

369

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

370

Speaker 2: And everybody, when

it comes to the end of the day.

371

Everybody wants to be seen, heard,

and loved, and nobody wants to

372

hurt, so stop hurting people.

373

Speaker: Yep.

374

And I do feel like this could be a

really, um, big opportunity where

375

we come together because I think.

376

Like I'm seeing, and I know, not, not

all, but I'm seeing a lot of people

377

from where whatever you believe,

whatever side you're on, I'm seeing

378

a lot of people come together, kind

of like we did when nine 11 happened.

379

You know, we came together as a

nation and, um, you know, we don't

380

wanna stand for that anymore.

381

We want everyone to have a voice

382

Speaker 2: Yeah.

383

As, as everyone should.

384

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

385

Speaker 2: And if it comes from kindness

and love to make someone better.

386

That's what it's all about.

387

Speaker: I know.

388

And you know, you said

you're all about the love.

389

Mm-hmm.

390

I'm about being kind.

391

That's just my thing.

392

I'm like, just be kind.

393

Just be kind.

394

It's not that hard.

395

Please be kind.

396

Yeah.

397

It's not that hard.

398

And if you put that first, I mean,

that's gonna, that can change the world.

399

Um,

400

Speaker 2: just like as everyone hears

the basket of fruit, if you put a bad

401

fruit in there, it'll expose everyone.

402

Your kindness can expose to everyone.

403

Speaker: Yes.

404

Speaker 2: Um, I told my kids growing

up, we'd always come to the table.

405

Um, I would tell, um, the kids

and their dad like, okay, when you

406

come home, you need to tell a story

that you impacted someone today.

407

So what kinds did you show?

408

If it was to open a door or pick up a

pencil or someone, or if you see someone

409

sitting alone at lunch, give 'em a smile.

410

And I know kids are not brave to go sit

next to that person, but if you can do it

411

one time and feel they, our kids need to

learn what it feels to fill your heart up.

412

Yeah.

413

To see the joy in somebody else.

414

Yes.

415

So my kids grew up, um, knowing that

they had to come home and tell us

416

the good deed they did for today.

417

Speaker: I love that.

418

I wish I could say I did that.

419

I didn't.

420

Speaker 2: Well, no, but this

is for like your grandchildren.

421

You get to do that with

your grandchildren.

422

Speaker: Exactly, exactly.

423

And lead by

424

Speaker 2: example and show them.

425

Speaker: Exactly.

426

Speaker 2: Yeah.

427

Speaker: Okay.

428

I'm gonna backtrack now because

as I'm sitting here, you know,

429

I'm just kind of am like I'm

having a cup of coffee with you.

430

Oh,

431

Speaker 2: I think I saw your cup.

432

Mine says, actually I can.

433

Speaker: Mine says, just has the heart.

434

Oh, I love it.

435

Coffee all over and I put

in, oh yeah, I got lipstick

436

Speaker 2: and coffee.

437

Speaker: Okay.

438

So Lisa, tell me, okay, I

wanna hear your story more.

439

Yes.

440

So you're a nurse.

441

Yeah.

442

And you, and you still are a nurse.

443

Yes.

444

And you went through it.

445

And then, and then you're also, I had,

you're doing, you're you coaching?

446

I'm

447

Speaker 2: coaching.

448

I have my podcast, Ryan and I have a

Christian retreat coming up for couples.

449

Oh, and you and your husband are.

450

Totally invited.

451

Oh, you're sweet.

452

Um, we're having one

in Arizona in October.

453

It's a weekend and we are

bringing couples together.

454

Yes.

455

People last, like you guys are getting,

you guys have been through divorce

456

and you are dating and you're having a

Christian, Christian retreat for couples.

457

Absolutely.

458

We are both married for 22, 23 years.

459

We wanted to be in marriages

and um, that's a long time.

460

So yes, we bring to the table of,

um, putting God first and then

461

you as a couple and then your

kids, or wherever that may be.

462

And we are, um, gonna bring a retreat

together for couples to become stronger

463

with God and in their relationship.

464

Speaker: Awesome, awesome.

465

So it's not just for people

who have been divorced?

466

Nope.

467

Nope.

468

It's for

469

Speaker 2: all couples.

470

Male.

471

Okay.

472

Well all kinds.

473

Speaker: Let's have that

in our, in our show notes.

474

Okay.

475

Um, okay, so tell me more.

476

Where do you work in the hospital?

477

What kind of a nurse are you?

478

I

479

Speaker 2: am a med surg charge nurse.

480

I have, um, 34 beds at our hospital

in the section that I am in charge of.

481

Nine.

482

I work with nine nurses, average of a

day and up to five nursing assistants.

483

And then, um, everything that comes at

me, doctors, pharmacy, nurses, phone

484

calls, and I organize the day Okay.

485

To help facilitate where people

go and who's getting who.

486

Speaker: Okay.

487

So you're doing this work.

488

Yep.

489

And then it sounds like you're

in a long-term marriage.

490

You've got your kiddos and wham Yep.

491

You talked about three failures at a time.

492

Yes.

493

And you know, isn't it like, I feel

like I don't want to, I almost don't

494

wanna call it failure, but you have to.

495

No.

496

Yeah, they are

497

Speaker 2: failures, but, um, they're,

you have to have failures in life to make

498

you stronger and become your higher self.

499

So I knew when I was younger, it took

me three times to pass, um, my drivers.

500

Driving and some people it still

say you shouldn't have passed.

501

But hey, I'm doing good,

but I'm still here.

502

And um,

503

and um, it took me three times to pass my

nursing board and I'm a dang good nurse.

504

Um, I don't do good with testing,

but I'll tell you right now, I am so

505

humbled and so, um, proud of my nursing

license that I do not take that for.

506

I don't take it for granted.

507

Um, and I think about my three

different relationships and my longest

508

one being the man I was married to.

509

Um, what changed my life was

C-O-I-C-O-V-I-D opened up to, I

510

was doing CPR every single day.

511

Speaker 3: Oh, I

512

Speaker 2: watched people die.

513

I had seven family members and

friends that died during COVID.

514

Um, I had to be a leader in all of that.

515

Nurses did not do it for the

money anymore at that time.

516

Um, we like to work extra.

517

Do extra.

518

You can make extra money, but we worked 16

hour shifts because there was nobody there

519

to be for our nurses or ICU patients.

520

I, I did ICU, then I, they would

pull me from a charge, a med surgeon.

521

I would go down to IC and I'll be

like, I'll take the ICU patients.

522

There was one night that they're

like, we're eight nurses short.

523

All of us nurses held hands and we raised

their hand and we're like, we got you.

524

We got each other and we gotta

do this for the patients.

525

Speaker: Geez.

526

Speaker 2: Um, so during that time, I've

always interviewed people, um, being in

527

the healthcare this long, if you could do

something differently, what would you do

528

in, they're like, travel in your forties

because you're not gonna climb mountains

529

starting at 65 or 80, 70 when you retire.

530

You gotta do it in your forties.

531

Start seeing the world.

532

And that kept on going through my

head, and I watched 20 year olds die.

533

I watched 40-year-old, 50 80.

534

You never knew who was gonna

walk outta that hospital.

535

And I'm like, oh my gosh.

536

You know, in the Bible it talks about

them walking the wilderness for 40 years.

537

Well, I was walking in the

wilderness for a while.

538

I was working a hundred hours every

two weeks providing for my family.

539

And I wanted more and I had a calling

for more, but I didn't have time and

540

there was things I, um, did not miss out

on things with my kids, but there were

541

seven years I didn't ride in the car

with my kids because I was on a pager.

542

I was an interventional radiology

nurse for another hospital and

543

I was on call for emergencies.

544

Well, I was gonna end up being the

emergency if I didn't stop my cycle.

545

It's not good for your heart, it's

not good for your health, your

546

wellbeing, and your relationship

with your kids and family.

547

That's what we all do it for.

548

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

549

Can I ask you a question?

550

Yeah.

551

I'm gonna stop you, but I don't, I

want you to keep going 'cause you're

552

deep in this conversation, but I

don't know why this is, this jumped

553

out at me and this might be dumb.

554

No, nothing's done.

555

Well.

556

It might be a little, okay, so COVID hits.

557

Why was it, why were people dying

when now it seems not as severe?

558

Oh, because our, um,

559

Speaker 2: it's like getting,

um, everyone's immune to it.

560

Yep.

561

So it's shr like if, how

can I say, in the ease?

562

So that is

563

Speaker: true.

564

It's kind of like, okay.

565

Speaker 2: Yes.

566

Speaker: So it was just harsh.

567

It wasn't, it wasn't how

they were being treated.

568

Speaker 2: No.

569

Um, it was actually when we started off.

570

Nobody's been in this.

571

No one knew what it was, right?

572

Doctors were learning.

573

Science was learning US nurses.

574

My first encounter with my

very first COVID patient.

575

We were scared.

576

Us nurses were scared.

577

I peeked through the door

and I said, I see you.

578

I know how to be a nurse.

579

I'm gonna do the best

I can take care of you.

580

And if you ask me what is going on

or what is this, I have no idea.

581

But I do know how to take care

of a sick patient and I'm gonna

582

listen to my doctors and I'm gonna

do what we're supposed to do.

583

We got better in learning as we went

on, on how to take care of people.

584

Speaker: Yeah.

585

Speaker 2: Was there

failures at the beginning?

586

Of course, we're all learning.

587

Yeah.

588

But every day it changed ev

like things were changing.

589

The doctor's like, Nope,

we're not doing this anymore.

590

We're doing this.

591

So they were listening.

592

Everyone was doing the best.

593

All I can tell you is everyone

that walked in that hospital

594

was doing the best they could.

595

Yeah.

596

And we were there to save people

and the best we knew how and

597

Speaker: yes.

598

Yeah.

599

I'm so thankful for

our healthcare workers.

600

I mean, I feel like they go to war

and even like my daughter watching

601

her go through her residency and

you know, she's got, it's hard.

602

Holy, I mean, I think them

like, I think, you know, people

603

who fought for our country.

604

It's amazing.

605

Thank you.

606

Yeah, there's a

607

Speaker 2: lot of crying when people

go to me, medical school and nursing

608

or whatever field you're calling home.

609

If you have a home to call to and

you're like, oh my gosh, I don't know

610

if I'm gonna make it through the day.

611

I don't know why they put us through

this, but when you graduate and

612

you pass that test, you're like,

I know why they were hard on us.

613

Yeah.

614

This is hard.

615

Mm-hmm.

616

Medical field is hard,

especially these days.

617

'cause everyone Googles everything I know.

618

And they think they're smarter than you.

619

I know.

620

And they question.

621

So imagine working in your

office and someone's behind you.

622

Throwing stuff at you.

623

It's like you're fighting

for your job to explain why

624

you're doing what you're doing.

625

Speaker: Right.

626

And people

627

Speaker 2: get to, people are in your

office every single day and want to

628

record or want to, they write down like

it's the Bible of what you're saying.

629

Speaker: Right?

630

And

631

Speaker 2: they ask the same questions

to different people to try to get right.

632

Different answers.

633

It's hard.

634

So

635

Speaker: hard.

636

So hard.

637

Okay, so I interrupted your story.

638

Yes.

639

No, but so you're, you're go.

640

Yeah,

641

Speaker 2: I'm going through all this.

642

And I kept on hearing something.

643

You need to stop this.

644

You need to travel.

645

So that February, um, I

climbed my first mountain.

646

I went to Arizona.

647

My girlfriend took me through flat iron.

648

A mountain.

649

Never climbed a mountain.

650

It took five hours on the way up.

651

I cried.

652

I laughed so hard, I almost peed my pants.

653

I'm like, this isn't gonna be good.

654

'cause we're on the mountain.

655

We, we had a long ways to go.

656

Um, I prayed, I heard God, I had,

there was a part, my girlfriends went

657

up ahead of me and I'm like, how am

I going to get up and out of nowhere,

658

this guy comes, puts his hand out

and he goes, I'll show you the steps.

659

Listen to my word.

660

He helped me get through that part

and then he disappeared and I'm

661

like, that was one of God's angels.

662

And I'm like, once I got to that top, I

felt so free and I felt like I saw the

663

world and I'm like, I can do anything.

664

I can have hard conversations.

665

It's mind over Matter.

666

That mountain was a mind over matter.

667

I was not at my most physical fit.

668

I've always exercised, but I

could have been better then.

669

I did it and then I'm like, you know what?

670

I can do anything.

671

I have always known that,

but I really can do anything.

672

I came back, I was a better nurse.

673

I was a better charge.

674

I was able to have harder conversations

with people and not be scared.

675

Tell your truth.

676

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

677

Speaker 2: Tell your truth.

678

I don't know everything, but this is

what I know and how can we do this?

679

Um, after that, I made a decision

that I need to get a divorce.

680

Speaker: Wow.

681

Speaker 2: So that was

682

Speaker: you making that decision?

683

Speaker 2: Yes.

684

That's tough.

685

Speaker: Yes.

686

Speaker 2: Yep.

687

It was very tough.

688

Um, I will always love Doug.

689

He's an amazing dad.

690

The kids love him.

691

He adores them.

692

Um, we did not grow together, so, um, I

had to make that decision, um, to do that.

693

There's other things in the past

that I probably should have left long

694

time ago when my daughter was born.

695

Um, I don't wanna get into that.

696

I didn't, because of my belief

in marriage, my belief in God.

697

Um, I did everything

that I possibly could.

698

Um, family kind of fell apart on his side.

699

Um, it just all came together

and it was like it was time for

700

me to leave and teach my kids.

701

Um.

702

That through all this, um,

you can still have love.

703

Um, if you listen to our podcast, I

promote love from both parents and

704

I'm very proud of Doug and I today.

705

Um, where we at with our

relationship with our children

706

and how we respect each other.

707

Speaker: Well, and that's, that

was always my, my calling in doing

708

this was to doing a mediation.

709

Um, helping people get a

parenting plan together.

710

Just keeping them focused

on their children.

711

Speaker 2: Yep.

712

Speaker: And know what no, no

matter what you're going through.

713

Yeah.

714

You know, just be supportive

of the other parent.

715

And so I love that you knew to do that and

I can't help but ask for those women who

716

that's, it's tough for a woman to decide

when they have the beliefs that you have.

717

Oh.

718

Um, to decide on divorce.

719

I, how many years did it take you to come

to that decision and what was the process?

720

Because everybody wants to

know how do I, how do I know?

721

And I always say, work on

yourself like you do need to.

722

That's what I did.

723

Yeah.

724

Really focus on yourself first, and

then sometimes, a lot of times, Lisa,

725

that opens the door to the other

person kinda coming alongside you.

726

I but that,

727

Speaker 2: no.

728

And, um, I asked for

everything that my needs were.

729

I told him what my needs

were and they were not met.

730

Um,

731

I believe in men to protect

and provide for the family.

732

Um, I was too masculine in my role.

733

I wanted to be more feminine,

and I was not given the

734

choice I had to be masculine.

735

I provided for my family.

736

Speaker: Yeah,

737

Speaker 2: I couldn't do it anymore.

738

Um, I raised the white flag.

739

I'm like, I am exhausted and tired

and I need someone to partner with me.

740

I told, um, him for years.

741

I needed, I believed in him.

742

Um, women when you, it's

not the easy decision.

743

I went to my mom and dad.

744

You're worried about disa your kids.

745

Yeah.

746

My kids are my love of

my life an important.

747

They're the ones children hold us

back from making brave decisions.

748

But you need, as parents, how

are you showing up for your kids?

749

How are you showing them

love in your family?

750

Are you letting them see acceptance that

shouldn't be accepted in how you want

751

your kids to see their relationship?

752

Like, um, you would want

to show love and respect.

753

And if that's not being shown in your

marriage and you wonder why your kids

754

end up with someone, they do well.

755

They don't know anything different

If they grow up in a chaotic home

756

that, I mean, it's your responsibility

also to teach and show what love is.

757

What do you, what do you

want your kids to marry,

758

Speaker 3: right?

759

How do

760

Speaker 2: you want your

son to act towards his wife?

761

How do you want your daughter to

be with her husband because they're

762

gonna only level up when you level up.

763

Um, I think that's what encouraged

me to have brave and most women.

764

Like for me, it, it was years of thinking.

765

It was years of, um, and I,

we went to therapy for a year.

766

My therapist told me one day, you'll

walk in here and you will know.

767

And I'm like, how is that possible?

768

'cause I was trying everything and one

day I walked in and I'm like, I'm done.

769

And it was clear to me.

770

Um, I didn't do everything perfect.

771

It's not pretty.

772

Speaker: No.

773

Speaker 2: Um, Doug and I lived with

each other for a year to get, um,

774

our daughter through 10th grade.

775

So she felt like she was in a stable

home, but she knew what was coming.

776

Um, we wanted to do it right for her.

777

We wanted to do it in the summertime,

so she didn't have the stress, but she

778

still went through stress through school.

779

Um, but we sh um, we are both

very respectful to each other.

780

But the sad thing is if I were to do

it over, um, I left a lot of nights.

781

My daughter thought I was

going to the bar every night.

782

This is where we need, my

daughter was in 10th grade.

783

Um, our kids are very smart.

784

Um, I'm like, grace, I was

not ever going to the bar.

785

Like, I'm like, oh my God,

that you thought that.

786

So, aw, if I were to reverse all of that,

like that was all going through her head.

787

That breaks my heart.

788

So I had to tell her the truth.

789

Our kids can handle

more than you can think.

790

Like I, I made mistakes through the

process, but I was scared as an adult and

791

I think we, it's okay to tell our kids.

792

Um, the therapist will be

like, this is between you and

793

your husband and nobody else.

794

But kids are smart.

795

I was smart at her age.

796

I knew what was going on with my parents.

797

My parents, I'm proud of them.

798

And they married for 52 years, um, or 53.

799

It's amazing.

800

They're together.

801

Um, you know, we're always afraid of

disappointing people, but you should be

802

worried about disappointing yourself.

803

You have one life to live.

804

I went to my mom and dad and I'm like,

mom and dad have something to tell you.

805

I didn't even tell 'em we were

separated in the house, and I'm like.

806

I'm getting a divorce and my mom's

like, uh, you only live one life.

807

And I'm like, okay.

808

And then I'm like, dad, you know

that I would never get a divorce.

809

I'm a Christian.

810

I don't, I wouldn't want this.

811

And he goes, baby girl,

it's okay to get a divorce.

812

My parents were very supportive.

813

Speaker: Good.

814

And how are your kids doing?

815

Speaker 2: Um, you know, they're,

uh, Ryan and I are together,

816

and our kids have not met.

817

I have not met Ryan's youngest,

which I think is coming because

818

he just had that talk with her.

819

We've been with each other for 19 months.

820

We're, I listened to my therapist also.

821

They're all, we have two 17 year olds.

822

I have a 23-year-old and

he has a 19-year-old.

823

They're becoming adults.

824

We're letting them set the

tone for the relationship.

825

We're not.

826

Pressuring, um, we all, all

will meet here in the future.

827

Um, we've told all the kids

and I think they're ready.

828

Um, but we're trying to, we were trying

to establish our own new relationship

829

with our kids and not pressuring them.

830

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

831

Speaker 2: Because they have

plenty of time and so do we.

832

And being a teenager and going through

divorce for any kid, it's tough.

833

And they both love each of their parents.

834

And, um, my daughter's amazing.

835

She wants.

836

She is spending time with, um,

both her dad and I, and she

837

wants, she's doing it equal.

838

She's worried about both of us.

839

And I'm like, you don't

have to worry about us.

840

So she is like, mom, I've

spent this many days with you.

841

I have to go spend that

many days with her dad.

842

And what a beautiful heart she has.

843

Speaker: I know.

844

And then I feel bad that

she has that pressure.

845

Yeah.

846

You know, and

847

Speaker 2: packing her bag, it

sucks for a, a girl and all her

848

makeup and everything and pack.

849

She's like, it sucks packing my bag.

850

And, um, so we tried to make it

easier, but I, I told her makeup, like,

851

you're gonna have to get a second job.

852

'cause I'm not buying two of those.

853

But, um, we try to make it easier on her.

854

And, um, Doug and I are just making her

bedrooms her own home at each place.

855

And, um, she's welcome and

she's free to make her choice

856

of where she wants to stay.

857

And, um, she has a dad that loves

her so much and I love her so

858

much and we both want her so, um.

859

It's hard on kids.

860

Speaker: Okay, let now

let me ask you something.

861

So one thing that I sometimes

tell people, but this is when

862

their kids, how old is she?

863

17.

864

She's a senior in high

school, so she's older.

865

So when they're younger, I kind of say

that the parents need to make the decision

866

because that's a lot of pressure on a kid

to decide to make that decide like, well,

867

I wanna be here or there, and they're

gonna be worried about the other parent.

868

And I hear that she is.

869

She is worried still.

870

She maybe isn't staying

where she wants because she's

871

staying, she's doing it equal.

872

Yeah.

873

And that's how she's coping with it.

874

Are Do you live close together?

875

Oh yeah.

876

We're like 10 minutes apart.

877

That's nice.

878

Speaker 2: And um, she, um, grace

is more what I see right now.

879

She likes, um, tradition and she

likes, um, to have a schedule.

880

Now.

881

Her dad is good with that like

schedule and having dinners.

882

I fly by the seat of my pants.

883

I've always had to, because of the

work that I had to do to provide for

884

my family, so I couldn't be the parent

that was there at a certain time.

885

I, I lived in my uniform.

886

I lived at my uniform at

Baseball Fields, concerts Church.

887

I, I was always in my

uniform and now I'm not.

888

I, I'm working my, I work 10 days

a month and I'm doing this other

889

side and, um, so I get to spend more

time with my kids if they allow me.

890

They, they're so busy with their friends.

891

Yeah.

892

Um, my son, um, I'm letting.

893

He's an adult, so he's doing his thing.

894

He hasn't spent a lot of time with me,

but our communication is really good.

895

Good.

896

And he knows he is loved and he

is welcomed and um, and he's, he

897

has great support by my parents.

898

Um.

899

Their grandparents support the kids

and um, they welcome Doug and I both.

900

And so I grew up in a family that

aunt and uncle got divorced and my

901

uncle had a different girlfriend every

year and he'd bring 'em to Christmas.

902

And we are all one big happy

family and that's what I pray for.

903

Yeah.

904

That we don't ha we can all be together.

905

And um, I pray for Doug and I to

be able to do that and I met Doug's

906

girlfriend and she's wonderful and they

live together and I'm happy for him.

907

Speaker: Awesome.

908

Is that hard for your daughter?

909

That they live together

and she stays there?

910

Um, she hasn't expressed a

911

Speaker 2: lot Uhhuh.

912

Speaker: Um,

913

Speaker 2: no, I think

she feels comfortable.

914

Okay.

915

Good.

916

It takes a village.

917

Mm-hmm.

918

Like if there's one more person to

open their house and love my daughter.

919

Thank you.

920

Right.

921

Thank you so much.

922

Right.

923

I want my kids to be comfortable

and loved by other people.

924

Speaker: Yes.

925

Amen.

926

Okay, so you're working as the nurse.

927

Yep.

928

And you're doing coaching.

929

Yep.

930

I'm helping

931

Speaker 2: women.

932

Um, when they are kind of like you when

they are in transition of life, when

933

their ki kids leave the nest are ready

to, or they're like, you know what?

934

I don't wanna do the same job.

935

We don't have to be at

the same job forever.

936

I wanna expand or entrepreneurship.

937

I am not this big, rich

girl with all this money.

938

I am a nurse.

939

Everybody knows about what nurses make.

940

I've been a nurse for 24 years.

941

You could probably go look it up in

Minnesota, you'll see what my salary is.

942

It's no hidden.

943

There's nothing hidden.

944

I don't have family money.

945

I'm doing this all on my own

and I'm doing it, and I took

946

the chance and it's working.

947

Speaker: Yep.

948

I love that.

949

Speaker 2: So I want to encourage

other people to do that.

950

And people don't have confidence in

themselves or they need that friend.

951

I wanna be your friend that

helps you find the best self.

952

Or I'm not gonna, um, focus on

prob like people in your family.

953

Like I don't need all the drama

'cause I'm not gonna be that

954

person that you bounce drama off.

955

We're gonna do what's best for

you and how to get to that next

956

step and be your better self.

957

Speaker: Yeah, kind of moving forward

and I think I'm looking at the time,

958

I'm like, woo, I went, went over.

959

I could

960

Speaker 2: talk

961

Speaker: to you forever.

962

I know.

963

I feel that way too.

964

I love that.

965

I feel that.

966

But just to kind of end this with,

and it it goes with what you said,

967

Lisa, I so appreciate you being here.

968

And what I do want women to know,

I don't think I really got into my

969

groove until I was in my late forties.

970

And, you know, it doesn't mean

that I, I hadn't worked or done

971

things, but I was a little lost.

972

And I remember I started listening

to podcasts and I was like, there's

973

a whole new world out there.

974

Mm-hmm.

975

And just because you are 40 and

beyond, 50 and beyond mm-hmm.

976

Even 60 does not mean that there is not

a calling on your life for you to follow.

977

So hang on to that.

978

Lisa and with it.

979

Yes, yes.

980

Speaker 2: Um, our nonprofit is going

to be to help people in Minnesota.

981

Um, we want to go help the less

privilege or people that need a

982

stepping stone to start their life.

983

That's what Ryan and I are gonna do.

984

We're gonna go hit the streets.

985

I love that.

986

And we're gonna help people and we wanna

give back, so, and we're like, let's do it

987

In Minnesota, every state needs something.

988

Speaker: So Well, I love that.

989

Well, we're gonna have to have

you on to talk about that next.

990

Yes,

991

Speaker 2: yes.

992

And I would love you to

have you on our podcast.

993

I

994

Speaker: would love to be on it.

995

Yes, I would love to.

996

It was just a pleasure.

997

I'm so grateful to have met you.

998

Speaker 2: I'm grateful to meet you too.

999

And let's be the kind and

love and the light for others.

00:42:20,980 --> 00:42:21,100

Yes.

00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,740

And, um, start it with our

families and let it go up.

00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:25,735

Light up every Amen.

00:42:25,735 --> 00:42:26,870

Let's light up the world.

00:42:26,875 --> 00:42:27,415

And I'm sorry.

00:42:27,545 --> 00:42:28,055

There we go.

00:42:28,775 --> 00:42:33,020

And I, and we are so sorry

for everyone out there and our

00:42:33,020 --> 00:42:35,870

prayers go out to everybody.

00:42:35,870 --> 00:42:39,350

And our biggest thing is we

can't be scared we mm-hmm.

00:42:39,380 --> 00:42:42,020

Um, we just can't be scared.

00:42:42,020 --> 00:42:43,220

We can't let the devil win.

00:42:43,220 --> 00:42:43,820

So

00:42:43,970 --> 00:42:45,350

Speaker: gotta let that light shine.

00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:46,130

Yes.

00:42:46,220 --> 00:42:46,670

Amen.