In this episode of The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash chats with Steve Maldonado, also known by his aliases Skeeter or Jonny Lunchmeat. They delve into Steve’s journey from his sparkle boat days to his immersion in fly fishing, with a special focus on tying predator flies. Steve shares his earliest fishing memories, his competitive bass fishing experiences and how a move to Colorado shifted his focus to fly fishing. He also discusses the influential mentors who have shaped his fly tying skills and his passion for chasing tarpon and big browns on the fly.

Steve provides valuable insights into his fly design philosophy, particularly for predator flies, and offers practical tips for aspiring fly designers. He emphasizes the importance of thread pressure, consistent tying techniques and the significance of the retrieve in effectively fishing a fly. Whether you're a seasoned angler or new to fly fishing, this episode is packed with useful advice and engaging stories from Steve's fishing adventures.

Thanks to TroutRoutes for sponsoring this episode. Use artfly20 to get 20% off of your TroutRoutes Pro membership.

All Things Social Media

Follow Steve on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube.

Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube.

Support the Show

Shop on Amazon

Become a Patreon Patron

Subscribe to the Podcast

Subscribe to the podcast in the podcatcher of your choice.

Advertise on the Podcast

Is our community a good fit for your brand? Advertise with us.

In the Industry and Need Help Getting Unstuck?

Check out our consulting options!

Helpful Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction

01:17 The Sparkle Boat Days

06:25 The Fly Fishing Itch

09:03 Mentorship in Fly Fishing

13:47 Favorite Rivers in Colorado

16:33 Tying Techniques and Tools

19:47 Predator Fly Design Philosophy

25:35 The Jungle Junkie

31:21 Umpqua Selection Process

33:14 Tips for Aspiring Fly Designers

36:23 Tips for Handling Hair

39:16 Experimenting with New Materials

43:11 Upcoming Travel and Hosted Trips

48:59 Custom Fly Orders

Intro: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly.

Intro: On this episode, I'm joined by my friend and tire, Steve Maldonado.

Intro: You may know him by one of his aliases, Skeeter or Johnny Lunchmeat.

Intro: Steve and I discuss his sparkle boat days and his ascent down the slippery slope

Intro: of fly fishing, and we take a deep dive into tying predator flies.

Intro: I think you're going to enjoy this one, but before we get to the interview,

Intro: just a couple of housekeeping items. If you like the podcast,

Intro: please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating review in the

Intro: podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.

Intro: And a shout out to our sponsor, Trout Routes. I've known Zach and the team at

Intro: Trout Routes almost before Zach had a team at Trout Routes.

Intro: We all know streams are getting crowded and chances are you're not the only

Intro: one at your local access point.

Intro: Get away from the crowds and busy gravel lots by using Trout Routes Pro with

Intro: over 350,000 access points, mapped across 50,000 trout streams, and much more.

Intro: Trout Routes has all the data you need to help you find angling opportunities

Intro: that others will overlook.

Intro: Up your game and download the app today. Use code ARTFLY20, all one word,

Intro: ARTFLY20, for 20% off your Trout Routes Pro membership at maps.troutroutes.com.

Intro: Now, on to our interview.

Marvin: Well, Steve, welcome to The Articulate Fly.

Steve: Thank you, Marvin. Glad to be here.

Marvin: Yeah, I'm super looking forward to our conversation, and we like to start all

Marvin: of our interviews by asking our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

Steve: Oh, my earliest fishing memory. Well, I grew up in the valley here in southeastern

Steve: Colorado, probably about a mile from the Arkansas River.

Steve: My mom still lives in the same house that I grew up in, which is where I'm sitting right now.

Steve: And, uh, earliest I can remember is, uh, my dad, uh, and I going out to,

Steve: uh, John Martin reservoir.

Steve: Uh, I was probably six or seven years old.

Steve: Uh, nothing fancy spinning rods, worms. We dug up from around my dad's horse corrals.

Steve: He did a lot of cowboying and, uh, I've been obsessed with it ever since,

Steve: uh, just fishing and hunting with my dad.

Steve: Uh, he was hardcore at it and never fly fish, just, uh, fish them worms and

Steve: a spinning rod but he'd catch a bunch of fish.

Marvin: Yeah, and so I have to ask you, since you're with your mom, what's for dinner tonight?

Steve: Probably green chili and homemade tortillas and Mexican rice and the stuff I grew up eating.

Marvin: Wish I was there. That sounds horrible.

Marvin: But, you know, one of the things I know, like I know a lot of people know that you were a Marine.

Marvin: A lot of people know that you're a mechanic for Southwest. And I think even

Marvin: a lot of people know that you're, you know, you were a high school wrestler,

Marvin: but I bet a lot of people don't know that before they found you in the fly fishing

Marvin: world, you were a sparkle boat guy.

Steve: I was, I was, I was, uh, I was hardcore on the tournament trail.

Marvin: Yeah. So that was, I guess you started out with Southwest in Texas.

Marvin: Is that kind of when you were fishing competitively for bass?

Steve: Yeah. And it actually all started, uh, that got me into the bass deal was when

Steve: I was in the Marine Corps, uh, was North Carolina station there.

Steve: And I met, which ended up being my best friend. And I, as a matter of fact,

Steve: when he retired, I got him hired at Southwest and his dad was a,

Steve: a tournament bass fisherman back in the, the Bill Dance and Roland Martin days.

Steve: And he was from, uh, uh, Port St. Lucy, Florida fished. I mean, as a pro on the St.

Steve: John's river and all that. So Sean, you know, had a dad that was actually,

Steve: you know, on the bass tour and he's, you know, he showed me everything that,

Steve: uh, I needed to know in North Carolina.

Steve: We were there for three years bought a john boat together and rented

Steve: a motor on base and and we just fished all

Steve: over have lock and all the rivers there and and uh

Steve: got out went to texas and

Steve: and uh started fishing a lot and and uh

Steve: started winning some tournaments and got you

Steve: know got picked up i was fishing uh uh team

Steve: tournaments on you know bass champs bud light trail uh

Steve: in texas for a well a bunch of

Steve: years i was there for 20 something years uh you know

Steve: i lived uh you know probably 15 minutes

Steve: from lake world famous lake fork it's uh if anybody knows about you know anything

Steve: about bass fishing uh out of the top 50 bats ever caught the united states i

Steve: think like 38 of them come from this lake um and uh i was you know ended up

Steve: fishing these tournaments and did really well and And, and.

Steve: Uh, my partner, Sean Burris was an amazing angler and, and, uh,

Steve: you know, we were runner up for Angler of the Year several times.

Steve: And, you know, I ended up getting sponsored by Denali Rods and,

Steve: and, uh, P-Line and Shimano.

Steve: And, you know, it was, uh, uh, ended up running the boat for RH Landing.

Steve: They got me the boat. All I had to do was fish out of it. I had a 21-foot Legend

Steve: 211 Alpha, 250 Mercury Pro XS, and power poles, and HDS touchscreens, and anything I wanted.

Steve: I just asked for it, but I was doing well enough where I could do it.

Marvin: Yeah, that makes it a whole lot easier to buy the truck to pull the boat, right?

Steve: Exactly. And, you know, it all ended when I moved to Colorado,

Steve: and it was kind of a – it was like almost a meant-to-be deal because I was kind

Steve: of looking into what was going on in Colorado. I'm living in Denver,

Steve: you know, working at DIA.

Steve: I would have to drive to Pueblo, which is lengthy, which, you know,

Steve: when you're a bachelor, it really don't matter.

Steve: But kind of, you know, they have some different rules here, like no wake legs

Steve: and stuff like that. Well, you know, you got a 250 on there.

Steve: You're waking before you get it on plane, and it's almost –,

Steve: It kind of meant to be because when I got rid of all that stuff before I came

Steve: up here, I told Phil right off the bat, I said, had I not done that,

Steve: I said, I would never met you.

Steve: I mean, you probably wouldn't be talking right now because I said I would never have been fly fishing.

Marvin: Yeah, that's neat. And so for folks that don't know, that is Phil Ratstinkawani.

Marvin: So that means you get to officially keep Skeeter if we ever get that project off the ground.

Steve: Yeah.

Marvin: So how did you kind of get into fly fishing? You know, I guess,

Marvin: you know, you move, you're not going to competitively bass angle anymore.

Marvin: You know, when did you get the itch?

Steve: Well, actually, I was still working for Southwest, living in East Texas.

Steve: And one of my great friends down there, J.B. Jarvis, we were running buddies down there.

Steve: And he said, hey, man, let's go to Beaver's Band and let's go try some fly fishing.

Steve: I said, where's that at? and uh we went

Steve: up there and got some uh from the

Steve: bargain cave if everybody remembers that at cabela's we went and

Steve: got some old junk stuff over there i don't even know what kind of

Steve: rods or reels we had we got uh tried

Steve: tying our own flies and and uh went up there well it's a bunch of stalkers and

Steve: uh then you just i mean you throw a cigarette butt out there and they'll eat

Steve: it but uh we were throwing these ugly flies that we were tying and man we thought

Steve: we were the catch now and uh that That was around 2009,

Steve: and we went up there once, and we were hooked on it.

Steve: We had no clue what we were doing at all, but these stalker fish were eating,

Steve: and we kept going back more and more.

Steve: It's just kind of what started it. Like I said, I had no clue what I was doing.

Marvin: Yeah, that's neat, and of course, it's lucky for you. I think the Denver metro

Marvin: area is one of the trout fishiest places in the country in terms of the resource

Marvin: and the shops and all that sort of stuff.

Steve: Right it is it is it's it's phenomenal it's just absolutely phenomenal the there's

Steve: so many options uh you never even have to you know i mean you kind of have to

Steve: uh plan where you're gonna go because it just it just gets in your head and

Steve: you're like wow so many places i could go yeah.

Marvin: And and so you know that i guess that's about 15 years ago you know who are

Marvin: some of the folks that have uh mentored you on your fly fishing journey and

Marvin: what have they taught you.

Steve: Without a doubt phil,

Steve: uh filani is uh number one on the list uh uh that was a kind of a meant to be deal too i mean uh,

Steve: moved up here with southwest uh and i seen a

Steve: big billboard going back home where i was staying before i actually sold my

Steve: house in texas and uh said fly fishing show and i'm thinking oh wow i have to

Steve: check that out and it was at the denver mart didn't know nothing about it uh

Steve: I went there on a Saturday, and there was a jillion people.

Steve: And I got my ticket, and I walked around, and I'm just looking around, and this place is huge.

Steve: And Tammy, my wife, says it was meant to be. I said, because I could have went

Steve: straight, I could have walked left, and I ended up going right.

Steve: I seen a wall with people sitting against the wall, and I was like,

Steve: man, these guys are kind of flies.

Steve: Eyes and i walked around the

Steve: corner and uh there was one guy that

Steve: had just a bubble of people around you can't even see the

Steve: guy and i was kind of standing up you know kind of short like the

Steve: hobbit and i was trying to see who this guy was

Steve: and i'm thinking there's no way i'm going to get up there so

Steve: i i walked to the end and for

Steve: some reason instead of just keep on going i turned around and

Steve: a little uh bubble of people was dispersing i'm

Steve: like i'm gonna walk back here because obviously this guy's somebody because

Steve: there's a ton of people around this guy and i

Steve: walked by and i kind of peeked at him and uh

Steve: he does the same thing uh like jimmy

Steve: houston told people he wanted you know something that

Steve: catches more fish goes hey he goes you want me to show you a fly little catch

Steve: a bunch of fish and i'm like sure and uh we've been best friends ever since

Steve: he uh asked me where i worked and i told him i just moved here did you know

Steve: do you fly fish and And I remember him saying, well, do you eat a tie?

Steve: And I said, not like that.

Steve: And I said, I'm pretty horrible at it. And he's probably, you know, one of my...

Steve: Biggest mentors that showed me everything about nymphing and the small flies

Steve: and the mending and the you know everything that's the streamer game for me

Steve: came later that was kind of my own deals um another one is rick takahashi uh

Steve: rick taught me so much about tying making stuff perfect uh,

Steve: and he's such a humble guy and that humbleness is really roughed up on me uh

Steve: you know as a as a bass Bass guy, he could really be kind of a smarty pants.

Steve: And that's way different than any of the guys that I know now.

Steve: But there's a whole array of them. Scott Stisser, he's probably one of the best

Steve: tires I've ever been around.

Steve: He taught me so much about just making flies perfect.

Steve: He does Atlantic salmon flies and just watching him and him explaining how he

Steve: does stuff and kind of taking me under his wing and explaining just how perfect

Steve: you have to make these things.

Steve: And it's over time and talking to these guys, it's kind of cool when I could

Steve: tie 20 flies and I can have three guys that can, you know, really tie in front of me or watching me.

Steve: And I can throw those 20 flies up in the air and let them hit the table and

Steve: they won't know which one I tied first and which one I tied last because they look exactly the same.

Steve: That's to me is what these guys have done for me.

Marvin: Yeah, that's super neat. And so how long ago was it that you met Phil?

Steve: This will be the 11th year that I met Phil.

Steve: I've been here at DIA for 11 years. So yeah, it's been just that 11 years.

Marvin: Yeah, it's interesting. I can remember going to the Denver Fly Fishing Show,

Marvin: you know, gosh, it was probably, I don't know, three or four years before COVID

Marvin: when it was still at the Mart. And that was a neat place.

Marvin: And I was always super impressed because you could get a Bloody Mary first thing

Marvin: in the morning and walk the show.

Steve: Oh, they were so good.

Marvin: I will say Robert at the Gaylord makes great Bloody Marys, too.

Marvin: So, folks, if you're at the Denver Fly Fishing Show this coming year,

Marvin: look for Robert and tell him Marvin said to make a Bloody Mary for you and he'll hook you up.

Marvin: So, it's interesting to you, right? So, you know, you've got this kind of,

Marvin: you know, conventional background, come back to Colorado, but I know you chase

Marvin: a lot of stuff on the fly now.

Marvin: And so, I was kind of curious, you know, what's your favorite species to chase on the fly? Yeah.

Steve: Uh, like on the fly period.

Marvin: Uh, yeah, on the fly period. And if you need to, I'll give you two cause I feel generous this evening.

Steve: Uh, my number one is tarpon. Hands down is my number one is, is fishing for tarpon.

Steve: Uh, of course the next would be, you know, hard to beat, you know,

Steve: just some big old Browns.

Steve: It's, uh, you know, and they're right up there with carp, carp to me.

Steve: I just soap on, but, but yeah, it's, uh, I'm obsessed with the tarpon fishing.

Steve: And i i go quite a bit every june with a friend of mine that the guys down there

Steve: and it's just uh that's got me uh i don't know it's got me whack over them yeah.

Marvin: It's kind of crazy it's kind of i would say that's probably one of the apex

Marvin: site uh fishing experiences you can have because i can't think of a bigger fish

Marvin: that uh you know people are pursuing on the fly that you get to watch you eat like that, right?

Steve: Oh, yeah, yeah. And I think this June I jumped, well, I got some to the boat,

Steve: but it was 24 that I got in a week period. It was insane.

Marvin: Yeah, that's good clean living, Steve.

Steve: Oh, yeah.

Marvin: So, and in terms of, like, trout places in Colorado, do you have a favorite river you like to fish?

Steve: The Eagle. It's my favorite.

Marvin: And what makes it special for you?

Steve: It's just... Uh, well, it's, it's, it's kind of special because Rim Chong goes there.

Steve: Me and Phil and Rim go fish there a lot. And, uh, uh, that's another guy that's

Steve: just one of my favorite guys to be around.

Steve: He's so humble and he's so patient. He's taught me just patience and he's, he's so funny.

Steve: Him and Phil get after it. Like, uh, oh, like Grumpy Old Man.

Steve: That's like the odd couple, Walter Matthau and Jack Lim.

Steve: And it's so funny the way they tease each other. But I go to the Eagle because of that.

Steve: They like to fish a lot, and it just turned into be one of my favorite rivers.

Steve: There's so many good places to fish there.

Steve: You don't have to drive. You look very far. There's a lot of fish in that river.

Marvin: Very, very neat. And, you know, it sounded like you kind of were bitten by the

Marvin: fly tying bug at the same time you started, became fly fishing curious.

Marvin: But was it really, you know, meeting Phil, say, 10, 11 years ago that kind of

Marvin: made you decide that you really wanted to get serious about it?

Steve: It was. It was, you know, like I said, I started it, you know,

Steve: in 09 with my buddy JB when we started going to Oklahoma.

Steve: But honestly, it's, you know, when I met Phil, that's when my life changed forever.

Steve: It was, it was special.

Marvin: Yeah, that's pretty neat. And

Marvin: so do you remember the, your first vice and the first fly you tied on it?

Steve: Oh yeah. It's, uh, uh, an HMH. You got it out at, uh, the bargain cave once again in Texas.

Steve: And, uh, my first fly was a really ugly hair's ear.

Steve: And a matter of fact, I still have that original fly, uh, you know,

Steve: and a couple of other originals because Tammy said, you know, keep your fly.

Steve: She goes, you might get better at this. She goes, that one's kind of ugly.

Steve: She goes, but you'll always be able to look at your first fly.

Steve: And now it's, I have that one in a shadow box. And then some of my uncle flies, I'm like, wow.

Marvin: Yeah, which is, I mean, it's a pretty cool process to kind of get there in 10 years.

Marvin: I mean, a lot of people, you know, quote, tie their entire lives and never,

Marvin: you know, really make a lot of progress, right?

Steve: Mm-hmm.

Marvin: And so what do you tie on today?

Steve: Day uh you know as i got better uh i was uh don talked to me from uh regal at

Steve: one of the shows and uh i got picked up by regal and and don's been good to

Steve: me and that's that's probably been,

Steve: oh maybe eight years uh that i've been on a regal and and uh he's such a great

Steve: guy that old that old regal family is uh is awesome and and you know the streamers

Steve: that i tie uh you know it's it's uh I'll never change vices.

Steve: I'll never even look at nothing.

Steve: And I've been, you know, approached by all the big guns and Renzettis and all them.

Steve: And I tell them, no, just I'm not even interested.

Steve: It's, you know, Don's real good to me. And I really like the Regal for my style of tying.

Marvin: Yeah. And is it basically the jaw mechanism and how tightly it clamps those

Marvin: big hooks? Is that kind of what you like about the Regal?

Steve: Yeah. It's just a pull the handle, let it go. And the, the, the hooks in there,

Steve: there's no knob adjust in or no, you know, none of the stuff it's,

Steve: uh, um, and you know, and I tie big flies and, you know, if I need some 24s,

Steve: uh, I'll just get them from Phil.

Marvin: He'll have that little, uh, that little drug dealer Ziploc bag that he carries with him.

Steve: Yeah.

Marvin: Um, and, uh, he'll, he'll set you up, uh, for sure.

Marvin: Or the, um, that's funny. And so, you know, I know you mentioned Scott Stisser

Marvin: and Rick Takahashi and Phil, but, you know, you know, I, those guys are,

Marvin: you know, to me, they're kind of, I mean, Scott, not, not really.

Marvin: Cause he does a salmon fly thing, but like, you know, Rick and Phil are to me

Marvin: are like, you know, mountain West fly tires.

Marvin: Right. But, but you're, you know, when I think of you and I know you've got,

Marvin: you know, trout, you know, buggy trout patterns with thumb quote,

Marvin: but I think of you as a predator dude, right?

Marvin: Yeah. And so, you know, who are some of the tires that you kind of follow,

Marvin: you know, on that predator fly front?

Steve: Oh, I mean, that's such an easy list for me. It's, of course,

Steve: one of my friends, Kelly Gallop, Blaine Chocolate, of course.

Steve: But that whole group, Russ Madden, Strolis, you know, Alex Lofka, Chad Johnson, Schmidt.

Steve: On that end, and, you know, I tie with all those guys at the Streamer Love Test.

Steve: Steve Daly's another one.

Steve: Just how can you not follow these guys? I mean, it's just meet,

Steve: you know, meet greatness is what I call them.

Marvin: Yeah dude it's uh it's kind of all those guys are kind of crazy it's kind of

Marvin: funny as you're kind of ticking through the names i was lucky you know some

Marvin: of the guys that travel more i i've been able to kind of spend time with but

Marvin: i mean a ton of those guys were up at schultz's event at bob in the hood yeah.

Steve: Yeah it's uh i was on the back burner for that i'm hoping i get in this year

Steve: i was i was late getting uh when i was uh um just they were waiting for somebody

Steve: to drop out and i I would have got in. Hopefully I get in there this year.

Marvin: Well, fingers crossed. It's a fun time. And, dude, that is, you know,

Marvin: folks, if you are about Predator streamers, that is an insanely awesome event.

Marvin: It's, you know, it's not huge. You get to spend time with everybody.

Marvin: It's a lot of fun. The culture at Schultz Outfitters is a great culture.

Marvin: And, you know, they, you know, it's not just fly. They do gear, too.

Marvin: And just a super, super great kind of old school way a fly shop should run.

Marvin: And, you know, Steve, one of the things I'm always interested about,

Marvin: you know, when you get, you know, fly designers as opposed to fly tires,

Marvin: right, is, you know, tell me a little bit about kind of your design philosophy,

Marvin: you know, for Predator flies and kind of what you think it takes to make an

Marvin: effective Predator fly. Okay.

Steve: Uh, my, my philosophy on that, I mean, it really, uh, uh, about like my whole

Steve: thing with, with my tying style now, I mean, uh, my predator stuff goes back

Steve: to my, you know, fishing the bass days.

Steve: And, and when I really started to, to think about doing this,

Steve: uh, I was thinking if I can make a fly mimic a fluke or a jerk bait,

Steve: which is my style of retrieving, uh, I would have something.

Steve: And so, I mean, that was my whole process, you know, when I sit at the bench, uh,

Steve: um, and I mean, you know, the head, the tail and the, the, the articulation,

Steve: uh, um, all that to me plays, I mean, it plays a lot into the, into the fly.

Steve: Uh but you know being on the bass tour i mean it's uh i mean if i threw a fluke

Steve: out there and i just reeled it in i wouldn't get nothing it's it's it to me

Steve: it's all about the retrieve.

Steve: It's it's really getting that fly to to make it do stuff um um it's kind of

Steve: hard to explain for guys that don't gear fish i mean it's uh um it's real funny

Steve: because people look at me when i'm when when I'm a streamer fishing,

Steve: cause it's just a whole different thing.

Steve: It's the people that do the, and I mean, no offense with the way people do stuff,

Steve: but I mean the strip, strip, stop, stop, strip, strip, strip.

Steve: Yeah. That's not even in my vocabulary.

Steve: It's, it's all like fishing a jerk bait. You want to make that fly move with

Steve: your rod, not with your line. All you're doing with your line is just taking up slack.

Steve: If you can pop that fly and make it move with your rod tip, up.

Steve: And not even mess with the line then you're gonna

Steve: you're gonna you're gonna start catching a bunch of fish and that's when you you

Steve: know make fish bite uh that really don't

Steve: want to bite uh but i put all that in my my

Steve: you know my predator fly kind of deal so to me it's just

Steve: uh it always reflects to my best days and

Steve: how my patterns are going to react you know with my style of you

Steve: know uh retrieving you know whether it's in

Steve: a you know current slack water which i love to fish uh

Steve: slack water for big trout with a lot of people in

Steve: the drift boat will just zip right by it and uh zip right

Steve: by some of the biggest fish they're around um so i put a lot of hours of testing

Steve: into into these flies just uh to see if they'll retrieve like i want them to

Steve: look and i do a lot of on the you know whatever you call it on the bank tuning

Steve: and the drift boat tuning i mean sometimes i'll hack them down to nothing yeah.

Marvin: I mean and so so for people that know like if they've watched,

Marvin: you know, conventional guys fish, I mean, I can see you basically retrieving

Marvin: line and pumping the rod tip, right?

Steve: Yes. Yes. And, and, and, uh, really it's, uh, that's all you're doing.

Steve: I'm, I'm just holding that rod tip down and I'm pumping that rod tip.

Steve: And if you see my hand coming back, it has nothing to do with moving that fly.

Steve: It's just getting the slack out of the way.

Steve: So I can keep that line tight to the fly. And, and, you know,

Steve: I go back to, you know, um,

Steve: one of the quotes in Kelly Gallop, you know, uh, like I said,

Steve: to me it goes to the retrieve but you know ellie always said you know fish aren't

Steve: looking to see how many things are wrong with your fly they're looking to see

Steve: how many things are right with your fly but in the end it's the retrieve is

Steve: what makes it effective yeah.

Marvin: And so with that pump you're basically what you're getting is you're getting

Marvin: a left right darting but you're also getting kind of that kill where kind of

Marvin: the tail kind of crumples over the head.

Steve: Yeah exactly so i'm i'm basically trying to walk the dog under water and i'll

Steve: pop pop pop and i'll kill it and then pop pop pop and I'll kill it.

Steve: And then usually it'll, that fish will come and you'll see them come and you'll

Steve: pop, pop, pop. And they're interested.

Steve: And it's not like a tarpon. When you miss it, you miss a strip, they're gone.

Steve: Uh, they'll see that thing start fluttering like it's wounded.

Steve: And as soon as you give it another pop pop, they, they can't stop.

Steve: They just eat it. It's a, it's pretty incredible.

Marvin: It's like Doritos.

Steve: Yeah.

Marvin: But it's interesting. So, you know, if you're, you are not, uh,

Marvin: animating the fly by stripping, does that mean that you're, does you're getting

Marvin: that, the swim action that you want, probably not with a lot of articulations

Marvin: and probably with more of a waiting and kind of head design in the fly?

Steve: Yeah, it's, it's really the, the head design, uh, to me that makes a, a huge difference.

Steve: Uh, when I do the heads, uh, and I've told people this when I do all my,

Steve: my time demos and, and, and just in general, um, if you watch my videos, is when I put the eyes on a,

Steve: I want them eyes just sticking out where they're almost goofy looking when you

Steve: look at the fly from the front.

Steve: The worst thing you could do to me, I mean, that I've noticed is people put

Steve: eyes on, they squeeze them together, and it just kills the action of the fly.

Steve: The way I put my eyes on makes my jungle junkie.

Steve: I mean, you can tie one that's white where you can do it clear water and just

Steve: pop it, pop it, pop it, and it's basically just zigzagging back and forth underwater

Steve: like a zero spook on top. but it's doing it under the water.

Steve: And I've tried it all kinds of different ways here in this, you know,

Steve: evergreen lake that's clear as a bell.

Steve: And I've squeezed the eyes a little bit, squeezed down a little bit more and

Steve: you get to a point where that thing just goes sideways.

Steve: And I mean, it's just, it's, you know, it'll sell the fishermen,

Steve: but it won't catch no fish.

Marvin: Yeah. So it sounds like you like a wedge head, right?

Steve: Yeah. Kind of like a wedge head.

Marvin: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's super neat. because it's always interesting it's

Marvin: like you know some people love articulation some people are tying you know swim

Marvin: flies and it's the weight right uh and.

Steve: You know.

Marvin: They're they're wrapping the the hooks with lead wire to kind of get the get

Marvin: that kind of kill that they want but you know you mentioned the jungle junkie

Marvin: and i know that's kind of the pattern i know there's the jungle junkie junior as well um.

Steve: Yeah but.

Marvin: Uh tell me a little bit about the fishing problems you were were trying to solve

Marvin: when you designed that fly.

Steve: Uh well i mean

Steve: yeah that it was uh it was

Steve: basically just uh what i was wanting to

Steve: do is is get a fly that i could uh pretty much

Steve: walk the dog uh underwater uh and just

Steve: make it do the jerking motions that a

Steve: fluke does uh almost kind of like you

Steve: know some of blaine's you know stuff when when the t-bone you

Steve: know when you jerk that that thing just go sideways um and

Steve: i wanted something like that that i could work fast under

Steve: the water just pop pop pop pop pop and and uh and one

Steve: that i could do it every time uh you know that wouldn't roll over on its side

Steve: sometimes and you know you have to dry it out and then you know you'd fish it

Steve: and it'd come be it you'd be okay that's it and i'll send it roll over on its

Steve: side it took a lot of a lot of uh trial and error and getting like to get the

Steve: head right and the amount of material

Steve: uh to get that thing right um and and like i said it's a it's a fish catching

Steve: machine i mean landon's wore it out in argentina and i've had it in brazil with pat dorsey and,

Steve: and uh uh nick from lamson took it to argentina i said it's the best you know

Steve: i had a bunch of magazines but it's uh you got to do your part uh with the with

Steve: uh you know and i had told these guys about the retrieve it's uh it's a cool

Steve: fly but if you do the strip strip stop uh it probably going to be one of your worst enemies.

Marvin: Yeah. And mentioning that, does that then mean that you like to fish a rod that's

Marvin: probably more like a bass rod that's stiffer in the tip?

Steve: Not necessarily, because Loomis has that NRX, that 8-foot by 6-inch,

Steve: and it's built for fishing off the boat where you can hold your rod down and

Steve: pop it like a jerkbait rod.

Steve: But it's got some flex in it, and it has to have a soft tip somewhat so you can work that fly.

Steve: Eye if it's if it's uh if it's too stiff um it'll just uh it'll it'll pretty

Steve: much just start scooting towards you and it doesn't give it the chance to really

Steve: go to the side by side uh when they came out with that rod it was like yeah

Steve: i gotta have it it's uh it's phenomenal yeah.

Marvin: It's interesting because i think about like how you know a lot of the rod companies

Marvin: have these like you know medium fast to the fast side of the action and the.

Steve: Those tips.

Marvin: Tend to be like particularly like of a troutier ride they tend to be softer like nothing wrong with.

Steve: Them it's just not.

Marvin: The right tool right for that job um.

Steve: Exactly but.

Marvin: You know back to the to the design on the jungle junkie so you know what was

Marvin: the secret sauce in the head was it the shape or the material or kind of a combination of the two i.

Steve: Think it was the street it's a it's uh and that fly is just strictly a

Steve: little bit of a tail and uh american tide flies aaron letero makes this uh magnum

Steve: dub and uh it's it's just longer than the short the seniors won't do it uh i

Steve: mean there's nothing wrong with the laser dub uh i don't ever use it it's too

Steve: short for for streamers for big streamers it's just uh,

Steve: It doesn't do right, and, you know, you could pile it on and pile it on,

Steve: and then, you know, you're really in a mess because your flies don't work right.

Steve: But it's all about the head that makes this thing and the way you put the eyes on.

Steve: If you squeeze the eyes whatsoever, it just doesn't work.

Steve: And, you know, I got a lot of pics of my flies facing you, and the eyes are

Steve: really flared out sideways.

Steve: Ways and and uh it's just the way the hydraulic works and

Steve: the water push uh it's uh

Steve: it's pretty phenomenal uh the way the hydraulic uh uh push affects the way that

Steve: fly just pops from side to side and it does it repeatedly and it never tilts

Steve: to one side or the other it just stays uh it just stays straight and and and

Steve: uh and uh man they come and they sure come and get it yeah.

Marvin: It sounds like You need a new sticker when you're tying next show season in

Marvin: 2025 that says, don't squeeze the eyes.

Steve: Yeah.

Steve: I've had people come over there when I put it on my little clip and set it there.

Steve: First thing they do is they pick it up and they squeeze the eyes.

Steve: And I tell them, I said, you can have that.

Steve: Really? And I'm like, well, yeah. And then they walk up and I go,

Steve: well, that ain't going to work.

Marvin: So was the Jungle Junkie the first pattern that Umqua Feather Merchants picked up from you?

Steve: It was it was the first one uh uh that

Steve: they picked up and it was uh yeah and

Steve: it was a different name i designed it for

Steve: a pike fly because you know i do love to pike fish and you know i do it here

Steve: i do it and my wife from michigan i pike fish a lot and uh it was a pike fly

Steve: hands down i mean that was no uh no you know joking around uh and when i went

Steve: there to umpqua to turn it in uh that's That's when the late Dave Student was there.

Steve: And, man, was he tough. It was...

Steve: He looked at it and uh he liked it immediately i mean usually they yeah would

Steve: do the waiting period and the whole thing i mean they didn't just pick it up

Steve: like it made instantly but,

Steve: when he uh when i found out that the committee picked

Steve: it up uh he called me and uh i went in there to see him and and i had so much

Steve: respect for him it just uh it was just he just seemed like the guy you didn't

Steve: want to play with and he said stevie goes we're gonna you know pick up your

Steve: flag goes uh but uh i want to change the name on it i said i don't care what

Steve: you call it you put it in your catalog, you can call it whatever you want.

Steve: And he said, we're going to try it as a South America fly. He goes, I think it'll be great.

Steve: He goes, and sure enough, he goes, how about we call it the Jungle Junkie?

Steve: And I said, that's awesome.

Steve: So I can't tell people that I named it. It was Dave that changed the name on

Steve: it. And man, it's just been a wildfire fly.

Steve: You know, Yellow Dog says it's one of their top South America flies that they sell.

Marvin: That's super cool. So what was, you know, kind of stepping back a little bit,

Marvin: kind of what's that normal kind of UMQA selection process for, uh, what's it like?

Steve: It's tough. I mean, it is, uh, it is tough.

Steve: Um, it just, it's, yeah, it's so tough to say the least.

Steve: I mean, the best hires in the country on this thing and, and it's,

Steve: uh, and actually the guys that pushed me towards this was Rick and Phil.

Steve: They were, Rick was probably the biggest pusher of it.

Steve: One of the fly tying shows and I had this, that very fly.

Steve: And when I showed it to him, he goes, what? He goes, you gotta admit,

Steve: nobody ties flies like this around here. He goes, it's all tiny stuff.

Steve: And I said, he goes, you need to go find Dave and show him that fly. And I said, who?

Steve: And, you know, I went to meet him and then went through the process.

Steve: But, I mean, it's just, you know, me and Phil always joke about,

Steve: you know, getting through Dave's student, you know, going through the gauntlet.

Steve: We called it going through the gauntlet. You made it through him, and the fly was perfect.

Steve: I mean, it's not that they're not now, but, I mean, he was tough.

Steve: And then you got the whole process of the committee. Most are on the,

Steve: you know, U.S. fly fishing team, Josh Graff and Russ Miller.

Steve: And there's just a bunch more. It's just really tough, you know.

Steve: And what people don't realize is just because you have a fly in the catalog

Steve: doesn't mean you're a shoo-in.

Steve: I mean, me as well as a bunch of other people, you take your Umpqua Hot Shot

Steve: and you're going in there going, hey, I got another fly that's been,

Steve: and they're just like, yeah, we don't like that one. And you're like, what?

Steve: So it's tough.

Marvin: And so, you know, for tires that aspire to have Umpqua or another shop pick

Marvin: up their flies to produce, do you have any tips for them?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's.

Steve: Number one would be just.

Steve: Open up your imagination and stick to your guns and sit there at the vice with

Steve: the bare hook on there and just, just think about, just open up your imagination,

Steve: put your imagination and put it on the hook.

Steve: And, and, um, you know, that's number one. Uh, number two would be, uh, tie a lot.

Steve: Tie every day if you can, even if it's just a little, a little fly,

Steve: uh, um, you know, just tie a lot and refine your techniques, uh, with, uh, you know.

Steve: Thing i got from kelly you know is your thread pressure

Steve: your thread pressure is the number one priority to

Steve: make everything perfect uh that that to

Steve: me trumps everything is thread pressure you know

Steve: keep my you know an eye on that

Steve: uh and number three would be

Steve: fish them a lot you know uh like i said do some you know some bank trimming

Steve: weekend take some scissors with you uh and you know i'm talking streamers you

Steve: know and fish them a lot and i mean fish a lot and sometimes you don't have

Steve: to be fishing for a fish just don't you know see where you can how you retrieve that fly

Steve: and if it's doing you know not kind of what you want it to do it's got to do

Steve: exactly what you want it to do uh and you know that's a recommendation and i just tell people i mean,

Steve: if you stop at any point and say oh man that's close enough for me it ain't

Steve: good enough i'll tell you that right now it's got to be right and it's got to

Steve: be exactly like you make it you want want it to be yeah.

Marvin: Because they've got some serious anglers are going to go out and fish those flies right.

Steve: Oh unbelievable unbelievable yeah.

Marvin: And so if we come down to you know down down from mount olympus down to where

Marvin: all the mere mortal fly tires live.

Steve: Um i.

Marvin: Always like to ask you know people like you and phil and you know people that

Marvin: production tie you know if you have like three tying tips that you can share

Marvin: you know again with us mere mortal tires that can kind of help us you know know,

Marvin: make our life at the vice a little bit better.

Steve: Um just uh i mean three tips to make you better tire yep uh,

Steve: tie something every day if you possibly can i mean it's uh um and and don't get too uh,

Steve: don't get too sucked in the rabbit hole uh with you know a bunch of uh you know

Steve: techniques and and watching you know just you know there's there's so much stuff

Steve: you can watch and so So many guys you can watch, uh,

Steve: like the list that I gave out that I follow.

Steve: And I mean, just get a little bit from each of them and, and, uh, make your own way.

Steve: Uh, it's just, uh, you know, that's, that's another one.

Steve: And, and, uh, just, uh, have confidence in what you're doing.

Steve: I mean, just, uh, and don't give up and just, just, you know,

Steve: get better at it and, and just, that's it.

Marvin: Yeah. How, how about, um, so I know you do a lot with like, uh,

Marvin: deer hair and things like that. had any tips for like handling hair um that you can give folks.

Steve: Uh get good thread uh you know it's a you know just get strong thread and make

Steve: sure that you clean your hair i mean it's just you can't clean it enough uh

Steve: there's always an under for you know just just you can't get it completely clean.

Steve: Um, and I, I don't really spin my hair at all.

Steve: Um, it's, uh, I get just a gigantic clump and, uh, um, I just,

Steve: I just, I stack it, kind of stack it, but I stack it around the whole hook and,

Steve: and then I'll make a three wraps and I'll just, you know, pull it tight.

Steve: And, uh, to me, it works a lot better. I tie a lot of mice, you know,

Steve: uh, like we talked about the night fishing.

Steve: I mean, I tie a lot of mice with caribou hair and, uh, that works better than

Steve: spinning. It's more consistent, uh, when you do that, uh, learn how to do that.

Steve: Um, and, and it's, uh, it's, it's easier and it's way more consistent.

Marvin: Yeah. And then in terms of like, you know, uh, like dubbing,

Marvin: are you, you know, I know you mentioned that, uh, like laser dub was too short,

Marvin: right. For the jungle junkie.

Marvin: Uh, are you, are you spinning noodles or are you doing dubbing loops?

Steve: Uh, I do, I do dubbing loops. Yeah.

Marvin: Got it. Uh, anything you want to share with folks there?

Steve: Yeah. Don't make them too long. You can make a loop way too long and it just,

Steve: and there again, that goes back to your thread control.

Steve: Um, you can always put another one on there.

Steve: Uh, so don't try to get everything on at once.

Steve: Uh, if you can't handle the, you know, the, the thread pressure,

Steve: where it's the same, make a short loop.

Steve: And a lot of times, all you need is a short loop.

Steve: And just make sure as you're wrapping around and you're preening everything back,

Steve: just make sure your thread pressure stays the same all the way around there

Steve: because you don't want to have a slide that's a couple of wraps of tight thread

Steve: and then you got three or four of loose thread and then tight thread because

Steve: a tooth will get in there and it's over.

Marvin: Yeah, it'll become loose and broken thread.

Steve: Absolutely. Yeah.

Marvin: So, you know, doing the dubbing noodles, have you ever, I mean,

Marvin: do you venture into kind of brush land or have you kind of stayed out of the brush world?

Steve: No, I figure some brushes. I mean, the brushes are kind of cool.

Steve: And I have the little Stompo Turbo Twister.

Steve: I make a lot of my own brushes, especially for the big pike flies because I

Steve: can get these things that just look nasty. And, and, uh, you can't buy it.

Steve: You can't buy those kind of brushes, uh, that you can create on your own.

Steve: And, uh, um, you know, that's just, uh, I really do like making my own.

Marvin: Yeah. It's funny you say that. That reminds me of seeing David from squimpage

Marvin: flies and Edison making brushes. And that was a pretty amazing thing to watch.

Steve: Oh yeah. Yeah. Cause you look at it and you're like, man, you can't even buy

Steve: nothing like that. And you can't.

Marvin: Yeah. And I mean that whole, you know, to me, I think that makes me think about

Marvin: Bob Popovich and, you know, him solving that size mass problem in fly fishing.

Marvin: And it's just amazing, like beast flies and stuff like that.

Steve: Oh, yeah, yeah. It's pretty amazing.

Marvin: Yeah. So I know you're a tinkerer, right? And so I know, like,

Marvin: people that tie a lot, they're always playing around.

Marvin: Like, they've either found a material that they're experimenting with or they're

Marvin: trying to figure out a new way to glue their fingers together with the latest

Marvin: resin. And what are you playing around with on your time bench right now?

Steve: Oh, right now it's a Semperfly came out with some new, new stuff.

Steve: It's, uh, uh, just, well, they have a whole bunch of new, their,

Steve: their, their stuff is so amazing.

Steve: Uh, they got a bunch of new stuff they come out with for, I'm,

Steve: I'm messing around with streamers, uh, um, with, uh, just some of their dubbing. That's like crazy long.

Steve: And, and, uh, uh, some of their chenille, that's just the colors is just crazy.

Steve: And they have so many different lengths of it.

Steve: Um, so I'm, I'm, I'm messing around with that right now. And,

Steve: and, uh, it's been working pretty good.

Steve: It's, uh, I'm working on a new top water, uh, frog, you know,

Steve: for bass, you know, uh, I can get over to Texas and, uh, you know,

Steve: hit the lily pads and, uh, fish around that thick hydrilla and,

Steve: uh, it's going to be weedless and it's, uh, and it's articulated.

Marvin: Oh, there you go.

Steve: Yeah.

Marvin: Yeah. That's funny. Cause I was, uh, I was talking to some guys from,

Marvin: uh, rather outdoors when we were flying back for my cast and you know they were

Marvin: uh i was like the space alien right because i was a fly fisherman and and so

Marvin: uh you know i was telling them that there are some instances where the fly rod

Marvin: is a better tool and to me fishing lily pads is one of those oh.

Steve: It's it's hands down awesome.

Marvin: Yeah you know and i just like and they're like well why is that i was like well

Marvin: guys because you don't have to bring everything back to the boat every time

Marvin: i was like dudes when you're done just lift it and put it back yeah.

Steve: Yeah it's uh you know and

Steve: then with you know like i said with that with that technique i use for the

Steve: streamers here for trout i mean it's the same thing you know i would do you

Steve: know with the frog uh you know on a bait caster and you get that rod down and

Steve: you just pop it you can zip it in between lily pads pop it on another one zip

Steve: it off pop it on another one uh you know you try doing the strip strip strip

Steve: that ain't gonna work i've tried it.

Marvin: Yeah Yeah, you might make a salad. Yeah. So the other thing I like to ask super

Marvin: avid tires is, you know, I bet you that you have some super oddball tool that

Marvin: you may have even made yourself that you can't live without.

Steve: I can even without a doubt tell you that's that stupid finger brush I have.

Marvin: Is it a cat brush? Is that what that is?

Steve: No, it's like an Enrico Poblisi. It looks like a dog brush, but it's just big

Steve: enough that you can put your finger in it.

Steve: And, uh, it's just for, for brushing out streamers and brushing out dubbing

Steve: and care or whatever that little finger brush is just, uh, uh,

Steve: yeah, I mean, it's, uh, it's funny. It's a, they ever quit making their luck with time.

Marvin: Yeah, it's funny. So you're the second person probably within the last two months

Marvin: that had mentioned that as their favorite tool.

Marvin: Adam Hortenberry, I interviewed him to help him promote his flytine event,

Marvin: the Rhode Island Fly Bash.

Steve: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Marvin: That's his favorite tool. And I think, you know what I think it is? I think it's a cat brush.

Steve: Yeah. And it's, it looks like a cat brush. It's just, you can put,

Steve: you can put it on your, you know, your finger index finger, middle finger,

Steve: wherever, and just, uh, it does the best job for brushing, brushing,

Steve: dubbing out. It's just ridiculous.

Marvin: Oh, well, there you go, folks. And, you know, so I know you're chasing Tarpon,

Marvin: you know, you've been down in South America, Central America,

Marvin: you know, do you have any kind of travel or hosted trips you want to share with our listeners?

Steve: Yeah, you know, it's a, I got some open spots, you know, if anybody's interested,

Steve: I'm hosting a trip with, to Brazil, you know, on Rio de Lua,

Steve: October 18th through the 27th with Nomadic Waters and Michael Williams.

Steve: And let me tell you what, what a great organization.

Steve: Michael's just top-notch. His guides are, you know, when I went over there with

Steve: Pat, I mean, these guys are the best in the business for doing what they do.

Steve: And Michael's operation with the cooks and the way you get treated and the equipment

Steve: is, you know, talking boat stuff because, you know, you're taking your own fly.

Steve: But they supply stuff if you don't have them.

Steve: And for people out there that don't fly fish and say, you know,

Steve: I want to give that a shot.

Steve: They got spinning reels and all the hard baits and, you know,

Steve: sassy shad, whatever it is they have.

Steve: But it's top notch and it's unbelievable.

Steve: The five days we were there, there was, I think, six of us fishing.

Steve: And they keep their little baseball clicker because they get back to the main

Steve: boat and they argue about who's the best guide.

Steve: And it's funny. They're just like us. You just can't understand them.

Steve: It's hilarious. And, uh, I think we landed over 3000 fish in, in five days.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting too. And Michael does a great job. And I think the great

Marvin: thing, you know, it starts with great people, right?

Marvin: You know, Mike, it does, you know, Michael and his U S team are great.

Marvin: The people he has down there are great, but I also would say,

Marvin: you know, his approach makes fishing in a very inhospitable place,

Marvin: very comfortable with the houseboat and kind of running off the boat.

Steve: Very comfortable and and uh it's uh like i said if anybody wants to get a hold

Steve: of me on that i got spots open uh we're only taking eight people on this trip

Steve: i'm hosting so it's not going to be a boat full of people um i said i got a

Steve: few spots if you're interested get a hold of me and uh,

Steve: and grab a 10 weight and it's on there.

Marvin: You go and uh you know is there anything else steve before i let you go to get

Marvin: to your green chilies because i know you told me i know one thing that you should

Marvin: you tell me about is your trip to Ireland, but is there anything else?

Steve: Oh, yeah, well, you know, just, I mean, the basic, you know,

Steve: stuff that did this, I tell,

Steve: you know, people to get better, just, you know, start fishing a lot and tie

Steve: more and, you know, and really go out and try to, you know, dissect your river,

Steve: your lake or wherever it is you're fishing.

Steve: Fishing and uh um you know it's just

Steve: uh um you'll know when you

Steve: arrive when you really start you know uh getting to the

Steve: point where uh you know you're going

Steve: to try to find the fish it doesn't want to be found and then you know get

Steve: your ability to the point where you can catch the fish that doesn't want to

Steve: be caught and that's just uh one of the things and you know one of the things

Steve: i always tell people at my seminars uh when i do the tie-in at demos or you

Steve: know it's out wherever i go and i get up there and and uh i tell people getting

Steve: bites builds confidence,

Steve: and confidence builds more bites and that's what it's

Steve: all about you know find your confidence streamer settle down and fish it and

Steve: every time you go to the river you're going to get a little bit better uh and

Steve: don't be afraid to switch it up you know and and and barrier retrieves clear

Steve: water versus dirty water high

Steve: water low water you know find out what they want feed it to them and And,

Steve: you know, just find yourself a simple system and make it work for you.

Steve: And, you know, I always tell people at the last, you know, last part of that.

Steve: And I said, don't use your line to move the fly.

Marvin: Yeah, those can be fighting words in some parts. But when do you head across

Marvin: the pond and go to Ireland?

Marvin: You were invited to go, Ty. Was it the English Fly Time Fair?

Steve: Yeah, the Irish Fly Fest, which is in Northern Ireland. And that is...

Steve: The middle of november we're we're flying into dublin tammy's going with me

Steve: and uh we're going to rent a car

Steve: and i made sure they gave me one with the steering wheel on the right side,

Steve: and which i had to pay extra for so it was i didn't

Steve: care and uh uh we're gonna drive into northern ireland it's about a two and

Steve: a half hour drive and uh it's not it's not just a few americans ever get invited

Steve: to this and uh um i didn't think i had the you know what flies they you know

Steve: i'm I'm thinking, what am I going to tie up there?

Steve: Well, they want me to tie my streamers, and that's why I got invited.

Marvin: Yeah, they want pike flies, right?

Steve: Yep, they want some pike stuff, big stuff.

Marvin: Yeah, and so have you started to kind of pencil in your 2025 show season so

Marvin: people want to come and kind of hang out with you because you'll be sitting

Marvin: next to Phil, and Rick will be sitting on the other side of Phil, right?

Steve: Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, Denver show for sure, and we talked, I'm going to do Atlanta.

Steve: Uh and uh um i can't do the uh the symposium because i think that's the same

Steve: time i'll be in ireland and uh i'm gonna try to hit a bunch of them uh you know

Steve: just uh i do the salvo ground up i'm gonna go i get invited every year to do

Steve: the streamer love fest so that's that's a blast,

Steve: uh hopefully i make it up to the boxcar this year if i get a you know get a

Steve: shot for that and uh And that'll be awesome.

Steve: But I'll hit just a bunch of shows. I'm going to try to hit a bunch and hook up with Landon.

Steve: And I get such a deal on the rental car with my Southwest deal.

Steve: And it's nice to hang around Landon. I'm going to go to Virginia again to that.

Steve: And I'll go back to Texas, New Braunfels. That show was phenomenal.

Steve: I'll be back down there to that.

Steve: So there's quite a bit. I'll make sure I post a bunch of them on my website.

Steve: But I'm going to try to hit a bunch of them.

Marvin: Yeah, that sounds cool. You have to come hang out in Atlanta in the Articulate Fly Hospitality Suite.

Marvin: There's always goodies and ample alcohol.

Steve: Absolutely. Yeah.

Marvin: And so we didn't touch on this, but you actually will tie custom fly orders

Marvin: for folks. If folks want to get some flies from you, what should they do?

Steve: Uh just you can contact me on instagram uh you know it's a maldo at goose killer k-i-l-l-a 67,

Steve: uh facebook just get on my name send me a personal message

Steve: and uh um i'll tie whatever you want um and i won't change what you want or

Steve: try to explain to you something different that i like and i'll tie them exactly

Steve: like you want them uh and uh just you know any colors you want any style you

Steve: want uh doesn't have to be streamers

Steve: or whatever it is i'll tie it for you and just get Get ahold of me.

Marvin: Yeah. And just because, you know, sometimes fishermen are not great planners.

Marvin: Um, what's the lead time on your custom fly orders generally?

Steve: Uh, if you put in, if, if you was to what's today, Thursday. Yep.

Steve: If you put in, if you put in an order today on a, on a few dozen,

Steve: uh, maybe even the streamers, uh, I'll have them, I'll have them to you by next, by this coming Friday.

Marvin: Well, there you go. Yeah. That's that great. You, uh, you've worked those double

Marvin: shifts at the airport. So you got a bunch of days stacked off, right?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, I take my stuff over there and I tie it there, too.

Marvin: Oh, which I forgot to ask you. What's your favorite glue for gluing on door plugs on airplanes?

Steve: No, it's just Elmer's.

Marvin: Well, there you go.

Steve: I think we have a problem with those because we're using wood glue,

Steve: and I don't think the metal is attached.

Marvin: Oh, you didn't do the glue joint where you put glue on both ends and let it

Marvin: dry and then glued it again?

Steve: No.

Marvin: Oh, man. But just for the record, you guys don't have any of those airplanes in your fleet, right?

Steve: We do not. No. Yeah.

Marvin: I didn't think you had any Boeings, but Lord knows United does.

Steve: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Marvin: Well, that's funny. And so, back to get a little bit more serious before we

Marvin: go, what's the best way for folks to follow your adventures at the vice and

Marvin: on the water and in the field? Because you hunt elk, right? Yeah.

Steve: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do. I mean, just follow me on Instagram. That's where I post everything.

Steve: I got a lot of YouTube, but, you know, I got a lot of videos in the works.

Steve: As a matter of fact, I'm editing some stuff and I'm going to plaster a whole

Steve: bunch of videos coming up here in about two weeks on just techniques and just,

Steve: you know, how to put the eyes on and all that stuff.

Marvin: Well, there you go. And, you know, I will drop all that stuff,

Marvin: Steve, for you in the show notes.

Marvin: And I don't want to keep you from dinner, but I really appreciate you hanging

Marvin: out with me a little bit tonight.

Steve: No, thank you, Marvin. It's been a pleasure. I always enjoy talking with you,

Steve: hanging out with you when I see you.

Steve: And you've got a great show, and I appreciate you even asking me to be on it.

Steve: I'm honored. I am. Thank you.

Marvin: Oh, I'm honored to have you. When we're done with the interview,

Marvin: we've got to get the Eastern-style, North Carolina-style barbecue cook-off calendared up, too.

Steve: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'll keep in touch with you.

Marvin: You bet. Take care.

Intro: Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.

Intro: Don't forget to check out Trout Routes Pro at maps.troutroutes.com.

Intro: Use A-R-T-F-L-Y-2-0, all one word, Artfly20 to get 20% off your membership.

Intro: Tight lines, everybody.