⚓️ USS Silversides: A Muskegon Maritime Marvel
Episode 213 • 5th September 2025 • Total Michigan • Cliff Duvernois
00:00:00 00:33:15

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From War to Museum: Welcome to the USS Silversides.

In this episode of Total Michigan, host Cliff DuVernois explores the fascinating history of the USS Silversides, a World War II submarine located at the museum in Muskegon, Michigan. With guest Tom Johnson, a tour guide at the museum, the discussion covers the submarine's service during the war, its remarkable preservation and transformation into a museum, and the unique stories and memories shared by visitors.

Listeners will learn:

  1. The construction and missions of the Silversides,
  2. Its journey to becoming a training and museum vessel,
  3. The personal histories of those who served.

Links:

USS Silversides (Website)

USS Silversides (Facebook)

Address:

1346 Bluff St

Muskegon, MI 49441

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Transcripts

Tom Johnson:

There's one story that always sticks in my mind, one of the tour guides

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told me that they were going through

the boat and there was a gentleman who

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served on a similar boat, not this one.

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When they were in the cruise

area, sat down on, he said,

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this would've been my bunk.

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And he was sitting there and then the

guide was talking, and there were tears

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rolling down this gentleman's face.

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And he said, I sat here through,

oh, maybe 75 depth charges.

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And it's like a, a shotgun

going off next to your head.

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Cliff DuVernois: Hello everyone and

welcome back to Total Michigan where

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we interviewer near Michigan's doing

some pretty extraordinary things.

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I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.

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One of the things that I always

love to do is I love to see, Old,

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military style, vehicles, boats,

whatever, that are actually museums.

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And it gives us a direct link

to our history as a nation.

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But also too is how so many members

throughout the Midwest and especially

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through Michigan, we've had so many

of our family members serve through

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throughout the various wars, through

World War I, world War ii, Vietnam,

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Korea, even up into Iraq and Afghanistan.

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And during my research for the

show, I actually came across this

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incredible find where it's actually

a submarine museum that you can

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actually go onto, you can visit, you

can walk around, you can touch things.

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It's great.

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And so I'm over in Muskegon today,

and sitting with me is Tom Johnson.

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He's one of the guides here at the USS

Silversides Museum located in Muskegon.

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Tom, how are you?

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I'm good.

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How are you doing today?

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I am doing awesome.

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Thank you for asking.

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And also thank you for

letting us come on your boat.

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No problem.

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I'm happy to have you.

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So with that being said, Tom, why don't

you tell us what is the USS Silversides?

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Tom Johnson: It's a museum

in Muskegon, as you said.

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We're out here on the channel between,

uh, Muskegon Lake and Lake Michigan.

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It started out actually as a general

kind of ship museum, so we do have a

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back stock of a lot of different types

of things in there, but it, it became

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more about the Silversides more and more.

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Uh, she's a World War II submarine,

famous for being the number

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three boat out in the Pacific.

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Uh, that's far as, sinkings go.

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and the museum itself is somewhat

dedicated towards World War ii.

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What happened?

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And then there's, um, a lot about

ships, of course, but there's a lot

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about, armies and general, you know,

things about, POWs, nurses, all sorts

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of different things inside the museum.

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Cliff DuVernois: Before we jump into more

about the history of the museum and what

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people can expect when they come here.

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Let's talk a little bit about you.

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Where are you from?

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Where did you grow up?

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Tom Johnson: I'm actually from New Jersey.

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A Jersey boy.

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Yes.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Um, New Jersey.

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I've lived a kind of a move around life.

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I did work at a 1850s reproduction

village in New Jersey for a while.

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Sure.

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So I got into the history and stuff

like that, and then I did move to

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California for a little bit and I worked

on the Queen Mary, the old Ocean liner.

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Out Long Beach.

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Yeah.

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Long Beach, California.

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And I was, have been interested in

ships in general of any types, sailing

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ships, steam ships, all of that.

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So it wasn't hard for me to learn.

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The basic tours plus everything else.

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So I could talk straight for an hour about

the Queen Mary and the Silversides too.

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Cliff DuVernois: So if we were in

Long Beach, I'd say let's go to

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the Queen Mary, but let's stick to

the USS uh, silversides for now.

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So let me ask you this question, 'cause

you made a comment about how you've always

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been interested in like old time ships.

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Where do you think this

interest came from?

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Tom Johnson: Um, when I was young,

I lived on a lake near here, spring

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Lake, and I had a motorboat, a little

tiny fishing motorboat and a little

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sailboat, and it might've been then,

I don't know, I got into World War II

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history like a lot of kids did back then.

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Yep.

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That was early teen years and

stuff like that was charged.

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Cliff DuVernois: Yeah, I was there too.

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Yeah.

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Tom Johnson: Ships in general?

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I don't know.

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I don't know.

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It was a sailor in my last life.

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Who knows?

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Cliff DuVernois: Now, what

brought you to Michigan?

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Tom Johnson: Um, I had been here when

I was a teenager, as I said, and then

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moved back east and then moved out west.

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Um, I met at.

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A lady online.

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Oh, there's a

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Cliff DuVernois: story there.

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Yeah.

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Tom Johnson: Yep.

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36 years later after, uh, from the high

school here in Michigan and uh, we got

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together in California and then we moved

Florida and then she said, you know what?

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Let's go to Michigan.

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It's a beautiful state.

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Prices for houses are reasonable.

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So we were able to come up here

and get a house and she saw

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the ad for the silversides.

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It was looking for somebody for Friday

and Saturday nights to do overnights.

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Uh, we have scouts that

sleep on board the ship.

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They have for years.

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So I said, well, I really

need a full-time job.

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And so she said, when we were just

getting ready to move, why don't you

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call ahead and talk to the director?

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And I did.

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And he said, uh, well, I'm

looking for somebody to be in

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the store and I need somebody to

help with these other programs.

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And I said, I can do all of that.

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I'm kind of a jack of all trades, right?

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So he gave me a full-time job.

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So I walked right in.

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I didn't have to go to Home Depot.

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Cliff DuVernois: Nice.

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And when you talked about before, 'cause

this is a term I've never heard of before.

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We have the Silversides and

it's floating here in the water.

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You talked about scouts that

actually sleep on the ship.

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Tom Johnson: We have a active program

to get well, we'd like more than the

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scouts, but, uh, generally the scouts,

uh, boy Scouts, girl Scouts, cub Scouts.

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They sleep onboard the

submarine as do, yep.

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So they, they, uh, we have a minimum to

do that and they sign up, they pick a

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date and they come out here and we have

maybe a program or two inside for them,

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or maybe let them just explore the museum,

whatever they feel like doing, you know,

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have a cookout or something like that.

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And they actually go in and sleep on the

actual bunks in the silversides overnight.

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Cliff DuVernois: Now, as far as you know,

a little bit more about your backstory,

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'cause I do wanna spend some time talking

about the silversides and, and the

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history and the people, uh, that served

on this boat for the historical comp.

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Is it just something that

did that you already know?

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Is it something that

you learned by osmosis?

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Where did that study come from?

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Tom Johnson: For the silverside?

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Yes.

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Bizarrely enough.

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I was never really into submarines.

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It was battleships.

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Oh, okay.

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I love battleships, but.

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When, uh, Pearl Harbor happened, the, uh,

fleet, you know, the ships were decimated.

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The aircraft carriers

luckily weren't there.

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The war was changing, you know?

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Yep.

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And no longer battleships,

you know, blazing away at each

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other, airplanes and submarines.

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So, right away, after Pearl

Harbor, the, uh, Admiral of the

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Day said to the submarine fleet,

and this is not QT anymore, but

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go out there and sink everything.

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With a Japanese flag on it.

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So it was unrestricted warfare.

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So normally Congress gets involved

with stuff, anything like that.

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Sure.

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But he was just like, this

is all we really have.

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So between the airplanes and the

submarines that really won the war.

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For the Americans in the Pacific.

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Definitely.

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Cliff DuVernois: So now when we're talking

about, we're sliding right into the

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history of the, of the Silversides here.

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'cause we, you know, everybody is

familiar with the fact that, you

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know, December 7th, 1941 mm-hmm.

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Right.

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Is when, you know Pearl

Harbor was attacked.

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Yeah.

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And the US declared war on

Japan, which then brought, you

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know, us to war with Germany.

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This boat was pro produced.

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Pushed out how many days after

July se, or sorry, December 7th.

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Tom Johnson: Well, they started

building here in November of 40, uh,

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may Island Naval Shipyard in California.

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They were building 'em also in

Manitoc across the lake here in,

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uh, Groton, Connecticut and Newport.

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So they were building in several

stations around throughout.

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The design came from about two decades

worth of research and work into developing

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what turned into a fleet submarine.

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So these submarines were equipped

to go out with the fleet.

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Now, since that happened with Pearl Harbor

and there was kind of no fleet, it didn't

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matter because these had a range of,

you know, somewhere around 11,000 miles.

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Cliff DuVernois: Amazing.

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Yeah.

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Now a lot of the design, 'cause you talked

about it was like two decades of design.

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It's important to note that

submarines actually started making

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their debe debut, if my history's

correct, like during the Civil War.

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Oh

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Tom Johnson: yeah,

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Cliff DuVernois: yeah.

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The Hunley.

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Yeah.

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But they weren't really used, or I guess

the technology really got pushed forward

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thanks to World War I, but all of a

sudden now when they see the value during

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World War I, that's when like World War

ii, you started seeing like fleets of

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these being deployed and the technology.

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Tom Johnson: Well, if you look

at the pos, uh, the Atlantic War,

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that's all the Germans really had.

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Every time they sent something out,

the Bismarck or whatever, it got sunk.

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So the surface vessels weren't working

for them, so they put out almost a

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thousand submarines in the Atlantic.

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Sweet.

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Most.

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So they were Yeah, trying, they

were trying to stem the ti tide

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of supplies coming from America

before we even joined the war.

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Yeah.

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'cause we weren't

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Cliff DuVernois: officially part of

the war, but we, we were definitely

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supporting the war effort going

on, especially over in Europe.

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Tom Johnson: Right.

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So submarines

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Cliff DuVernois: became their

main weapon out in the Atlantic.

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So talk to us now getting a little bit

more specific about the USS silver side.

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So.

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Uh, it came out not

long after December 7th.

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Tom Johnson: So, uh, the December

15th she was, uh, commissioned.

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Yeah.

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Cliff DuVernois: Yeah.

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So talk to us a little bit about,

so when the first, when the boat

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first gets out there, talk to us.

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First off I'd like to know.

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Let's talk about the crew.

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Let's talk about like the kind

of men that served on here.

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'cause you made an interesting

comment before about how serving

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on a sub is purely voluntary.

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Tom Johnson: Oh yeah.

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It always has been on the, well,

at least on the American side.

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So if you can't get through those

hatches fast enough, or you have trouble

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getting up and down the ladders, you

might not want to be on a submarine.

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You don't have to be on a submarine.

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So average male height in the

forties was about five eight.

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You know, you have your

six footers and stuff.

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Gentlemen mentioned that before.

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People.

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We hear a lot of stories

going in and out of the boat.

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I bet, I bet.

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You know, relatives of friends and

people who had been on the boat before

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and stuff like that, and they, you know,

confirmed this guy was, he said he was

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like 6, 6 1 or something like that.

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So it's up to you really.

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Um, in the beginning, uh, when

the ship first set out, uh, most

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of 'em were in Pearl Harbor.

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There was a, you know, kind of

submarine base there that by the

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way, the Japanese didn't bomb.

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They didn't touch the submarines.

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Oh, interesting.

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Okay.

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All right.

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So, and they were offering hazard pay.

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These, you still get a hazard

pay, so on top of your regular

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pay, you get extra money.

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You're coming out of the.

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Thirties, you're coming

out of a depression.

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You we're gonna have a

war, we're going to war.

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Guys who were volunteering,

maybe they heard that you get

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that extra money on a submarine.

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Let's try a submarine.

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Supposedly, quote unquote, you get

the best food in, in the service,

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but you'll get, submarines will

laugh when you mention that.

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But they had, yeah, we did get the

extra money, so send it home to mom

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or dad or, or the wife or whatever.

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You know, so it was kind of a bribe.

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Cliff DuVernois: Then, so we're

bribing people to be on the boat.

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But now if we're talking

about a crew, right?

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So there's a captain, like how

many chiefs were on the boat?

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How many enlisted guys were the

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Tom Johnson: boat?

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It's a captain and seven

officers, and then four chiefs.

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So there was split between the officers.

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It was, uh, eight officers and 72

enlisted men topped out on this boat.

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The, the original design was

for about 65, but it got to 80.

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And there was a bunk for everybody,

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Cliff DuVernois: Okay.

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So let's take a step back here

just to put this in context.

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How long is this boat?

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Tom Johnson: 312 feet long, 28 feet wide.

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But you're in a tube that's 16 feet

in diameter inside that structure.

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So that's it.

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So it's a little less than 312

feet and, and probably four or more

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feet smaller than the, the width of

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Cliff DuVernois: the boat.

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You obviously cannot be claustrophobic.

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That would help.

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And you definitely are not any kind of

an introvert because no matter where

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you go, you're not just seeing one

person, you're seeing a lot of people.

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Tom Johnson: Oh yeah, yeah.

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You're talking

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Cliff DuVernois: about 80

people that, that are in a bow,

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and every one of them had a

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Tom Johnson: bump, but there were

shifts, it was probably, I mean,

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they were probably tired enough

to climb in their bunk, in their

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clothes and just go to sleep.

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You know, we've heard all sorts

of stories in Vietnam, period,

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on boats similar to this.

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Uh, one of the guys said that we went

out for 32 days, didn't even shower.

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We didn't care, yeah.

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He managed to somehow squirrel away for

himself five packs of cigarettes a day.

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He was, uh, addicted, I guess, man alive.

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Okay.

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So there were ways around

a lot of different things.

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Uh, but other boats, the

German boats were much smaller.

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The German boat in Chicago, the U 5 0

5 is 60 feet shorter than this boat.

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I'm not sure the compliment of that crew.

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Uh, and they had shifts also,

but in this boat it was nice.

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They, now, somebody's gonna tell

me I'm wrong, but I've heard it

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called the Cadillac of submarines,

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Cliff DuVernois: Well, somebody used

the term term earlier that caught

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my attention, but back in the day,

this was like the space shuttle.

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Tom Johnson: I thought of that if

you, I know it couldn't move, but

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if you could stick this in space,

would you be okay inside of it?

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Is it like a spaceship?

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In other words?

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Cliff DuVernois: Okay.

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Tom Johnson: It means they talk about

the O, the oceans being a space of kind.

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You know, a hostile space for humans.

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So yeah, it is one of the most

advanced machines that we have today.

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Cliff DuVernois: So if we're, if

so we, let's take a step back here.

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So we're talking the

compliment of, of 80 people.

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That's what they got to, yeah.

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80 men on the boat, which is crazy.

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Let's talk a little bit about the service,

like during the war, like what were some

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notable things about the USS Silversides?

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You made a comment

earlier about being third.

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Tom Johnson: She's

considered third in sinking.

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Then they add the, the

ships up fifth in tonnage.

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The two higher boats, the toe tog and

the, uh, oh, I forgot her name already.

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There's two boats that were the toe tog.

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And anyway, one of 'em sank

itself with an air torpedo.

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Oh, no.

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Yeah, people did survive that.

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And the other one actually got scrapped,

uh, the year I was born in, uh, Manistee.

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So she was back here on the lake.

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Okay.

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Um, so the silversides is, is

pretty much noted for that.

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She, um.

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Has been blended into a lot of films.

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Okay?

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Okay.

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Uh, don't get upset by this table

in front of you, but it had a,

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they had an appendectomy surgery

performed on this table by the,

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uh, pharmacist mate of the chef,

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Cliff DuVernois: pharmacist

mate did an appendectomy

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Tom Johnson: right on this table.

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Sweet Moses.

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Cliff DuVernois: Yeah.

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Tom Johnson: this guy had, uh,

what turned out to be appendicitis.

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They were out on a run, it

was the fourth War Patrol.

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His name was George Platter.

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And the pharmacist mate, you know,

is not allowed to do anything, but

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you know the basic stuff, correct?

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Yes.

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But a pharmacist.

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They basically went to the

captain and they said, Hey.

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If this guy's in trouble, you know,

we're not near any capital ships that

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might have an operating room or land,

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Cliff DuVernois: right?

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Tom Johnson: So the captain

basically said to the pharmacist,

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Hey, well, can you help this guy?

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And he says, well, I've seen it.

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The appendectomy performed

before and I've got a book.

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And so yeah, there's, uh, rumors of

taking a butter knife and sharpening

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it in the, in the one of the shop's

wheel and, uh, you know, using spoons

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for four sips and all sorts of stuff.

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Oh, man.

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And it, they, they had a, a,

I think they had something to

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shoot him up with to knock him

out and they had to use some, uh.

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Gas afterwards and stuff like that,

that might have affected them.

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It was about a four hour surgery.

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They submerged the boat underwater

'cause it's, you know, smooth underwater.

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And did the surgery right.

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It was successful.

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Uh, apparently they were attacked

a little while later and the

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gentleman who was in his bunk

recuperating fell out of his bunk.

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Ooh.

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They got it back and he, you know, got

outta the service Later on, he four,

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three or four more war patrols and then

he ended up dying of old age, so, right.

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Good, good for him.

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But it was against the rules.

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So when they got back to port and the

admiral found out he was gonna court

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martial, the, the, uh, pharmacist

mate and the captain obviously

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probably said, I ordered him to

do it, whatcha gonna do about it?

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And it happened two more times

with two other submarines.

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Cliff DuVernois: We gotta remember

here, when you're talking about a

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submarine like this, 300 foot has

got a range of 11,000 miles, right?

384

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This boat could have been anywhere in

the Pacific Ocean Needle in a haystack.

385

:

So you're, yeah, and, and we also take

into account the fact that, you know, most

386

:

of our fleet was sunk at Pearl Harbor.

387

:

So if you're out there, you are

out there and you are alone.

388

:

There's nobody gonna come

charging to your rescue.

389

:

Tom Johnson: At that point, they had

Pearl Harbor, Brisbane, maybe, and other

390

:

ports and along Australia and New Zealand.

391

:

Right.

392

:

You know, as the war progressed,

they had more and more places to go.

393

:

But yeah, the range helped because

they were able to go run out of

394

:

torpedoes, go back and get more, run

out of food, go back and get more.

395

:

Cliff DuVernois: And so how long

then was the ship in service?

396

:

Tom Johnson: So she went out in April of

42 to just about the end of 45 into 46.

397

:

Cliff DuVernois: So about

four years of service.

398

:

Yeah.

399

:

God only knows how many missions.

400

:

How many torpedoes?

401

:

Tom Johnson: Well, she had 14 missions.

402

:

Oh really?

403

:

Okay.

404

:

It doesn't sound like a lot, but when

a lot of it is traveling, it's a lot.

405

:

Cliff DuVernois: That's right.

406

:

Tom Johnson: So she met the enemy 12

times, uh, up on the, The conning tower,

407

:

you can see that there's 12 battle stars.

408

:

They use bronze is five and silver's one.

409

:

So there's two bronze and two silvers,

410

:

Cliff DuVernois: right?

411

:

Tom Johnson: She got a presidential

unit citation for aggressive action.

412

:

So yeah, she, she was a decorated

boat and she sank well, anywhere

413

:

up to maybe 30 vessels, right?

414

:

Damaged 14.

415

:

Cliff DuVernois: Which you can see the

flags on the outside of the ship, right?

416

:

For the different, the different

types of different war ships

417

:

and different freighters.

418

:

Tom Johnson: Yeah.

419

:

Well, you'll, on the conning tower, uh,

you'll see the Japanese flag, the homeland

420

:

flag that represents any merchant vessels.

421

:

Right.

422

:

Sun or damage.

423

:

And then the, you know, the

rising sun is a warship flag that

424

:

represents any type of warship.

425

:

Cliff DuVernois: For our audience,

we're gonna take a quick break and

426

:

thank our sponsors when they come back.

427

:

Tom Johnson of the USS Silversides is

gonna continue to dazzle us with his

428

:

brilliance, but we're gonna talk a

lot more about how the USS Silversides

429

:

actually wound up in Michigan and what you

can expect when you come here and visit.

430

:

We'll see you after the break.

431

:

Are you enjoying this episode?

432

:

Well, I can tell you

there's a lot more to come.

433

:

Jump over to TotalMichigan.

434

:

com, enter your email address,

and get on our mailing list.

435

:

You'll get a list of the top

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436

:

Along with that, you'll get

all kinds of behind the scenes

437

:

goodies, as well as upcoming guest

notifications, and so much more.

438

:

Just go over to TotalMichigan.

439

:

com, enter your email address today.

440

:

Hello everyone.

441

:

Welcome back to Total Michigan, where

we interview ordinary Michigander

442

:

doing extraordinary things.

443

:

I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois today.

444

:

Sitting with me is Tom Johnson, one

of the extraordinary guides of the

445

:

USS Silversides, located in Muskegon

Submarine Museum in Michigan.

446

:

If that doesn't make you want to

go, I don't know what will Tom.

447

:

Before the break, we talked a little bit.

448

:

About the history, the 14 sorties

that this boat had, the number

449

:

of ships that it sunk during,

its, its time and its service.

450

:

What I'd like to do is I'd like to

start connecting the dots between,

451

:

uh, you were talking before about

how it was in service until maybe 46.

452

:

How did the Silversides

wind up in Muskegon?

453

:

Tom Johnson: Okay.

454

:

Well, after the war, they was decided

to use some boats as training.

455

:

Boats, in other words.

456

:

Okay.

457

:

Okay, so, um.

458

:

Some of the boats were taken away

and turned into what was called

459

:

the Guppy class when Sonar was

getting a little bit better.

460

:

Uh, so they modified,

they modified those boats.

461

:

This boat was taken down to the

bottom of the Mississippi River.

462

:

We believe her screws, as the Navy would

call them, were propellers, were removed.

463

:

She was put on a barge and brought

up there to the Illinois and

464

:

into Chicago to then, you know,

the naval base in North Chicago.

465

:

So she could be used as a training vessel.

466

:

Now, the reason she couldn't maneuver,

and there's questions of whether that's

467

:

true or not, uh, you hear a lot of

rumors was there is a treaty between

468

:

Canada and the United States for no

active warships on the Great Lakes.

469

:

Oh, interesting.

470

:

Okay.

471

:

But all of our other systems still

work and they could be trained on 'em.

472

:

And those boats, these boats

ran up until the Vietnam period.

473

:

A lot of Really?

474

:

Yeah.

475

:

They're, you know, it, it's a tough boat.

476

:

It was built for a war where

you're not really sneaking

477

:

around and spying on people.

478

:

You're actually out there being attacked.

479

:

So they had to survive death charges

and, and all sorts of things.

480

:

So you wanted these things to be

solid and, and then they had moved

481

:

from the past where they were bolting

things together to welding things

482

:

together and stuff, stuff like that.

483

:

Because the technology

484

:

Cliff DuVernois: improved.

485

:

Yeah.

486

:

The manufacturing processes improved.

487

:

Probably a lot of lessons learned.

488

:

From World War

489

:

Tom Johnson: ii.

490

:

Yep.

491

:

but then, um, somewhere in

:

492

:

She was sort of, I think the, uh, the city

bought her for a dollar, honorary dollar.

493

:

Again, there's some rumors about all that.

494

:

Yeah.

495

:

So she spent some time on the pier,

the navy pier, both sides, other sides.

496

:

Moved over to the industrial museum,

moved back, moved around a lot.

497

:

Rumors of homeless people

somehow getting on border.

498

:

Just not taken care of and then taken

care of, they started a program with

499

:

a scout staying on board in Chicago.

500

:

Uh, and then eventually in the mid

eighties the city was kind of like,

501

:

can you get this thing out of here?

502

:

And there is kind of a, a thing,

does the Navy still own her?

503

:

Now when you say the city, are

you talking about still Chicago.

504

:

Chicago.

505

:

Okay.

506

:

Alright.

507

:

Yeah, Chicago.

508

:

In 1987, I think that was about the

end of the road for her down there.

509

:

People up here offered

to have her come up here.

510

:

She was towed up to Muskegon.

511

:

Um, she spent most of her time

here in her space now, but at

512

:

one time she was downtown where

there's another vessel down there.

513

:

And, uh.

514

:

Yeah, I mean that's kind of

where it started, about:

515

:

So she's been here ever since.

516

:

And so many people see signs

out on the roads, places saying

517

:

submarine, and they're like, what?

518

:

Why?

519

:

And they follow the signs and

they walk in the building and

520

:

they go, there's a submarine here.

521

:

Cliff DuVernois: Yes.

522

:

I actually driving into

Muskegon today because I'm now

523

:

aware of the submarine museum.

524

:

All I saw were signs for

the submarine museum.

525

:

So it's kind of cool that the City

of Muskegon has really embraced the

526

:

US has silverside and is using that

to get people to come here and visit.

527

:

Tom Johnson: Yeah.

528

:

We're right off of, uh, pier Marquette

Beach, which is a beautiful beach.

529

:

It is been voted number one beach

in Michigan some several times.

530

:

It is a surprise.

531

:

People come around that corner not knowing

it, and they go, there's a submarine.

532

:

Cliff DuVernois: Yeah.

533

:

So when we talk about like the,

the ship coming here, at some point

534

:

in time, I'm gonna assume that

an organization came together.

535

:

That said, okay, we're gonna

take over the care of the boat,

536

:

the ownership of the boat.

537

:

We're gonna make it safe so

people can come and visit.

538

:

Talk to us about the history of that.

539

:

Tom Johnson: There was a family

involved, the Marins and um.

540

:

Other people got involved with

this, the boat being here.

541

:

So it seems to be, it was sort

of a private adventure at first.

542

:

Uh, but now we have a board.

543

:

Who's in charge of everything

like that and a director.

544

:

And so it, it is more of a,

well, 5 0 1 C3 and Dean Sure.

545

:

Nonprofit.

546

:

Yep.

547

:

Yeah.

548

:

So the, the profit that we get goes into

the boat, to keep her, you know, floating.

549

:

She has a good hull.

550

:

She's not going anywhere.

551

:

Well, you talk about moving her around, so

she's still gotta be structurally sound.

552

:

Well, uh, she floats.

553

:

She goes up and down with the,

there's no tide here, but the lake

554

:

levels vary depending on the winters.

555

:

Cliff DuVernois: Yep.

556

:

Tom Johnson: She was towed out into

the lake, I think it was:

557

:

I got here for a movie called Below.

558

:

It's a paranormal World War II movie.

559

:

They wanted to be able

to fly around the boat.

560

:

Surrounded by water without having to do

any special effects and stuff like that.

561

:

Although they built

interiors on a sound stage.

562

:

She might've been in a, a

British documentary at one time.

563

:

There was another movie called Mickey

Madson, a kid's film that was filmed here.

564

:

I think she was a dockside at that point.

565

:

So she's been, you know, up slightly

above the radar every once in a while.

566

:

Cliff DuVernois: This is awesome.

567

:

And as far as.

568

:

Establishing this to get the museum going.

569

:

People are, are starting to come here.

570

:

What I would like to do is, I can

imagine that a lot of people that

571

:

visit actually have family, family

members who served either during World

572

:

War II or perhaps even served on the

silver sites or one in the fleet.

573

:

Talk to us a little bit about maybe some

of the stories that really stick out

574

:

to you that people have maybe shared.

575

:

Tom Johnson: Yeah, they're, that

generation is somewhat passing.

576

:

I think about two or three weeks ago

we had a World War II veteran in,

577

:

and he's free, he gets in for free.

578

:

But family members come all the time,

you know, uh, I had a guy not too

579

:

long ago, we have the, uh, control

panel for the second silversides.

580

:

It was a nuclear boat inside the museum.

581

:

And he said, I used to sit here every day.

582

:

Oh,

583

:

Cliff DuVernois: that's so cool.

584

:

But

585

:

Tom Johnson: then going back farther, um.

586

:

Just about three, I think years ago

was the passing of what we thought

587

:

were the last of the World War

II veterans that served on board.

588

:

Her right gentleman named George Hawkins

who lived in Florida and one of our

589

:

people that worked here, her folks were

down there and she go down there and talk

590

:

to him and he apparently has a diary.

591

:

His daughter now has the

diary since he's passed.

592

:

Mm-hmm.

593

:

We're hoping to get that.

594

:

There's one story that always sticks

in my mind, and I wasn't the tour guide

595

:

at the time, but one of the tour guides

told me that they were going through

596

:

the boat and there was a gentleman who

served on a similar boat, not this one.

597

:

When they were in the cruise

area, sat down on, he said,

598

:

this would've been my bunk.

599

:

And he was sitting there and then the

guide was talking, and he said after

600

:

a point, he looked over and there were

tears rolling down this gentleman's face.

601

:

And he said, she said,

well, are you all right?

602

:

And he said, I sat here through,

oh, maybe 75 depth charges.

603

:

And it's like a, a shotgun

going off next to your head.

604

:

And they survived obviously

'cause he is there.

605

:

But it, it just triggered that

memory for him just being in the

606

:

boat, maybe smelling the boat.

607

:

Cliff DuVernois: Yes.

608

:

Yeah.

609

:

See people

610

:

Tom Johnson: talk about

the smell of this boat.

611

:

So we still get people and of

course, and the training part

612

:

of it in Chicago, there's people

still alive who train on her.

613

:

Cliff DuVernois: You talk about the smell?

614

:

'cause we, you know, we think

about the fact that the, that the

615

:

scent of, or the sense of smell

is closely tied to memories.

616

:

And you were sharing before that,

'cause we talk about depth charges.

617

:

We didn't mention this at the

beginning, but at the time the maximum

618

:

depth for this boat was 300 feet.

619

:

Tom Johnson: 300 ish

feet about her length.

620

:

Cliff DuVernois: Yes.

621

:

Tom Johnson: But then we heard a

story from a gentleman who said

622

:

a boat went almost to 500 feet.

623

:

So, which please don't arrest us.

624

:

That was just a rumor that we heard.

625

:

Can't I can't tell you

about the modern boats.

626

:

Right.

627

:

I have to kill you with

my pinky or something.

628

:

Cliff DuVernois: Yeah.

629

:

'cause we're, if we're talking

about a depth of 300 feet depth

630

:

charges, were like, especially

during that time, were just.

631

:

That was just part of life, being

on a boat, you know, this, this,

632

:

the volunteer basis, the hazard pay

that you had to, you had to sit and

633

:

listen to those things and pray.

634

:

They weren't within, uh, I think,

uh, I think I read earlier if

635

:

they were like within 50 feet,

they could damage the boat.

636

:

25 yards was, what is a kill shot?

637

:

25 yards is a kill shot.

638

:

Okay.

639

:

Tom Johnson: So when you see the

movies in the little explosive

640

:

are going next to the model?

641

:

No, it says boat's done.

642

:

Yeah.

643

:

Now there was, stories of the

Japanese believing that boats

644

:

could only go to 150 feet.

645

:

Ah, okay.

646

:

And then there was a, a tour of

some gentleman from Washington who

647

:

came out, oh no, don't worry sir.

648

:

These boats can go to 300 feet.

649

:

So they apparently went back to

Washington and told everybody.

650

:

So then the Japanese started dropping

their death charges farther down.

651

:

Yes.

652

:

Cliff DuVernois: Yes.

653

:

Tom Johnson: And what

was the famous phrase?

654

:

Loose

655

:

Cliff DuVernois: slips,

656

:

Tom Johnson: sank

657

:

Cliff DuVernois: ships.

658

:

There you go.

659

:

we're talking now about like the

structural integrity about it, but

660

:

also too, there's a lot of systems on

this boat that are still functional.

661

:

You were talking before

about how like the engines.

662

:

Tom Johnson: Two engines still turn over.

663

:

Uh, their Fairbanks, Mor

nine cylinder, 18 pistons.

664

:

They were opposing pistons

nicknamed rock crushers.

665

:

Uh, we turn 'em over every chance we get.

666

:

We just got a fresh set of

oil and they think they, we

667

:

haven't had oil since the 1950s.

668

:

Holy smokes.

669

:

And the boat was still in Chicago.

670

:

And then our air systems, we

can keep her, you know, upright

671

:

and floating, uh, with um.

672

:

Modern equipment too, right?

673

:

So, uh, the tanks are still

sealed in, in most cases.

674

:

So yeah, she's, but she, people

always go, Ooh, let's take

675

:

her out, let's go somewhere.

676

:

And it was not, unless

she's being towed, right?

677

:

Yeah.

678

:

And she's got one good dive left in her.

679

:

Cliff DuVernois: So I'm not

gonna ask you for a dive.

680

:

I would love to, uh, but you also

made the comment before about how the

681

:

screws have been taken off the ship.

682

:

Yeah.

683

:

'cause it can't be active.

684

:

So I assume that there's no screws now?

685

:

Tom Johnson: No, there's a set

at the door up, up, up front.

686

:

When you come in the museum

with the, the, are the type.

687

:

But they're from a different boat,

688

:

Cliff DuVernois: right?

689

:

Yeah.

690

:

Yeah.

691

:

And then, so let me ask

you this question, Tom.

692

:

If, if somebody's coming here,

they'd, you know, love to see the

693

:

submarine go through the museum.

694

:

What are, so tell us, what can

they expect when they come?

695

:

Tom Johnson: All right.

696

:

Well, if you want to, you can buy

tickets online or through our website

697

:

and we have a Facebook page or just

walk right in the front door and buy the

698

:

tickets, you know, at the desk there.

699

:

We usually, I don't know, I say kind

of an hour or an hour and a half, if

700

:

you will, to to see everything, right?

701

:

20 minutes if you bring kids.

702

:

Uh, but we have a gift shop in there.

703

:

And then we have films.

704

:

One of the films is a tour of the

submarine, so if you want information

705

:

before you walk through the boat, even

though there's things written throughout

706

:

the boat, you get a lot from that film.

707

:

Or if there's somebody in

your party that literally.

708

:

Doesn't feel comfortable or can't mobile,

mobilize, get through the boat, right?

709

:

You can sit and watch the film

while other people go through.

710

:

Cliff DuVernois: Mm-hmm.

711

:

Tom Johnson: And um, yeah, there's

a lot to see, lot to experience.

712

:

And actually walking through a World

War II boat is the best because if you

713

:

watch any of the old movies, those are

Hollywood sets for the interiors today.

714

:

There's some shows and things

out where the digital cameras are

715

:

obviously easy to get through with

these things, but they couldn't get

716

:

the physical cameras in the boats.

717

:

So they built the sets and it

was easier to send the actors

718

:

there to a, a sound stage,

719

:

Cliff DuVernois: correct.

720

:

Yeah.

721

:

Tom Johnson: Where they could use the

boat on the surface, even submerge

722

:

it and get that kind of film.

723

:

It was easier to, you know, film

on a sound stage for the interior.

724

:

Sure.

725

:

And then,

726

:

Cliff DuVernois: so we were talking

before about getting tickets.

727

:

If people wanna find you, follow

you, you know, online, how can

728

:

they, how can they get the tickets?

729

:

Where, where can they go on social

media to learn more about you?

730

:

Tom Johnson: Facebook we're, we have a

good Facebook, we have, when I first got

731

:

here about eight years ago, and they told

me we have 29,000 subscribers on Facebook.

732

:

I was like, holy moly, I didn't

expect anywhere near that.

733

:

Okay.

734

:

And we have a regular website,

you know, uh, we can give you the

735

:

information, you could post it.

736

:

It's down here.

737

:

Is that what they do?

738

:

Yeah, I

739

:

Cliff DuVernois: think

they say it's down here.

740

:

Tom Johnson: Uss silverside.com

741

:

or something?

742

:

Yeah.

743

:

Okay.

744

:

Tom, I'll get fired now for that.

745

:

Cliff DuVernois: Oops, Tom, it has been

awesome having you on the show today.

746

:

Thank you so much for answering

all my questions and, uh, sharing

747

:

with us a little, a little bit

about this, uh, amazing boat.

748

:

Well, thank you for finding us.

749

:

And, uh, for audience, you can

always go to total michigan.com

750

:

and click on Tom's interview

and get all the links that he's

751

:

gonna provide us, uh, down below.

752

:

Tune in again next week when we

talk to another Michigander, doing

753

:

some pretty extraordinary things.

754

:

We'll see you then.

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