This episode reviews George Michael’s cover of “I Can’t Make You Love Me,” the classic Bonnie Raitt hit, covering the differences between the vocal delivery and instrumentation. But there's a mystery: the surprising tag that George Michael added to the end of his version, which takes a tragic song and gives a surprising twist of hope on it.

In the mailbag portion of the segment, Trist and Elaine discuss the importance of music in schools, especially at the elementary school level, in shaping lifelong musical engagement, both as creators and as consumers.

Listen to the song

• YouTube - https://youtu.be/2_lpN31PmD8
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/3dQVWKuUMjxtuyflV4tzHV?si=9cded47836ed433c (may not having ending)
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/song/i-cant-make-you-love-me-studio-version/429945624 (may not have ending)
• Amazon - https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B011QPB5MO?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_q2daXareM97Nqr2K4FngIftPl&trackAsin=B011QPCN5W

Other links

• Playlist of the songs we’ve reviewed
• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5bn23baJ4xQ1t0TMqukELY5W95HwuMoT
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7gCOF5M0zYS1fBvXgT5ccI?si=7F3yVdEDRRWa_gAArK3AYg
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/songs-reviewed-on-the-musicians-loupe/pl.u-V9D7maah06JNo
• Amazon Music - https://music.amazon.com/user-playlists/3b47be4937b7490982f4a872db32ec8dsune?ref=dm_sh_AEFZY8KhvSsz1TGoRmasg6zHZ

About us

Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.

As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.

Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer

Elaine: Hey, Trist!

Elaine: What do we have this week?

Trist: Well, this time we start with a question that

Elaine: Okay.

Trist: I want to pose.

Trist: Can a particular singer or artist make you hear a song that

Trist: you never really heard before?

Trist: The way that I said "hear" and "heard" in the air quotes.

Trist: So there's a song, maybe you hear a cover of something.

Trist: The song was never that big of a

Trist: thing to you until you heard a

Trist: certain artist do it, and then

Trist: all of a sudden it spoke to you

Trist: and made you even appreciate the

Trist: original more.

Trist: Like you needed the vehicle of the new artist to hear the art.

Elaine: I can think of at least one, like the Whitney Houston version

Elaine: of "I Will Always

Trist: Oh,

Elaine: Love You."

Trist: right.

Elaine: Right?

Elaine: That's a classic one that Dolly Parton wrote.

Trist: right.

Elaine: That's an example of what you're talking about,

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: right?

Elaine: Where

Trist: And it's like,

Elaine: it

Trist: okay,

Elaine: makes

Trist: that's

Elaine: it so big.

Trist: a, that's a good song.

Trist: Of course that's true.

Trist: But then all of a sudden, with this other delivery mechanism,

Trist: it's like, oh, wow, those lyrics didn't really hit me the way

Trist: that they do now.

Trist: This week's song.

Trist: But quite in the same realm of being an amazing piece of music.

Trist: "I Can't Make You Love Me."

Trist: But the one we're going to

Trist: listen to was recorded by George

Trist: Michael.

Elaine: Oh, interesting.

Elaine: I had no idea that he had

Elaine: recorded the song, so I'm

Elaine: looking forward to listening to

Elaine: it.

Trist: Yeah, it was not on a regular album.

Trist: We'll get into those particulars.

Elaine: Okay, so before we pause, can

Elaine: you remind us how we listen to

Elaine: music as a part of The Musicians

Elaine: Loupe community?

Trist: Here at The Musicians Loupe, we are always happy to have you in

Trist: whatever way you can join us.

Trist: And we appreciate you listening.

Trist: But if you do have the ability

Trist: and can take just a moment to

Trist: improve your listening

Trist: situation.

Trist: Whatever it may be, at least just to listen to the song.

Trist: If you can put on the nicer headphones or put it on the big

Trist: speakers, or turn it up a little bit, or go into the nice study

Trist: where you have the good listening room set up.

Trist: Treat yourself and just listen the best way that you can.

Trist: Again, if you're out on a run, thanks for having us and listen

Trist: to this tune and come back.

Elaine: All right.

Elaine: So we're going to leave the links in the show notes and we

Elaine: will be right back.

Trist: And we are back.

Trist: Is that a beautiful rendition or what?

Elaine: It is.

Elaine: We normally hear the Bonnie Raitt version, right?

Trist: Yeah. That's the original, sung by Bonnie Raitt.

Trist: Not written by her, but her

Trist: original recording and

Trist: performance with Bruce Hornsby

Trist: playing piano with her, by the

Trist: way.

Trist: If you never knew that, now you know.

Elaine: So I'm really interested in hearing why you selected this

Elaine: version and also gave the lede that you did.

Trist: So that was the song for me.

Trist: So the thing is, for me, I needed George Michael's amazing

Trist: voice to tell me the story.

Trist: For whatever dumb reason, I think my brain, especially, you

Trist: know, I'm just out of high school and I knew of this

Trist: artist, Bonnie Raitt.

Trist: She had finally had some success.

Trist: She had been doing it for 15 or 20 years with enough success to

Trist: be a professional musician and travel the world, making albums,

Trist: but never a big hit.

Trist: And man, had this album in like '89 or '90 called Nick of Time.

Trist: "Let's give em something to talk about."

Trist: Like all

Elaine: Oh,

Trist: the hits.

Elaine: yeah.

Trist: Like it just came out of nowhere.

Trist: She was the hot new thing that

Trist: had been doing it 20 years,

Trist: right?

Elaine: Yeah.

Trist: So those were the kinds of

Trist: songs, kind of bluesy, gritty

Trist: country rock tunes, and not my

Trist: bag.

Trist: So I let, oh, that's like the slow, pretty song that the girl

Trist: that sings, the stuff that I'm not into is singing.

Trist: Somehow I let all of that stuff

Trist: cloud my thoughts, even though

Trist: that song, because it's so well

Trist: written, it's such a good song,

Trist: it often makes you know, the

Trist: greatest sad songs of all time,

Trist: all these lists, it's on those

Trist: kinds of lists frequently

Trist: because it's just so well

Trist: written.

Trist: But I just wasn't hearing that.

Trist: I was like, oh yeah, that's the Bonnie Raitt thing.

Trist: It's the same great song.

Trist: I just wasn't gonna allow myself to actually listen to it and be

Trist: as moved as maybe I should have.

Trist: And because I was more of a fan of George and his music and his

Trist: voice, I hear him cover it and yeah, I totally dig it.

Trist: But also light bulb goes off like, oh, you idiot, you've

Trist: heard this song for years now and you didn't pay attention to

Trist: what an amazingly well written song this is.

Trist: So going back and listening to her, she sounds great.

Trist: It's really well delivered.

Trist: It's just a different style.

Trist: And I was glad that the George

Trist: version let me realize what a

Trist: dummy I was in not really giving

Trist: credence to what a great song it

Trist: was, no matter who's delivering

Trist: it.

Elaine: It's interesting to me to think about which version I prefer.

Elaine: They're definitely different.

Elaine: We recently covered a Patsy Cline song and we had been

Elaine: talking about how Patsy Cline's voice just really had that

Elaine: maturity to be able to sell the tragedy of it.

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: And I felt

Trist: You

Elaine: the

Trist: can.

Elaine: same way about Bonnie Raitt's voice, and

Trist: There's

Elaine: I don't

Trist: more

Elaine: know

Trist: pain.

Elaine: Exactly, but I think that it

Elaine: doesn't have the same level of

Elaine: vulnerability that

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: George's voice has.

Elaine: And I think about how he

Elaine: delivers it, and the delivery

Elaine: that he has is very light at the

Elaine: very beginning.

Elaine: I actually wrote down as a part

Elaine: of this listen through that

Elaine: there was that very tenderness

Elaine: that he had at the very

Elaine: beginning that showed that

Elaine: vulnerability.

Elaine: And eventually he ends up going more into the power voice, the

Elaine: second half of the song or so,

Trist: Right.

Elaine: and really has more of that belting kind

Trist: The

Elaine: of voice

Trist: the money

Elaine: in

Trist: notes,

Elaine: the second.

Trist: the George Michael money notes

Trist: that you're paying admission to

Trist: hear.

Elaine: So I heard that vulnerability.

Elaine: I heard that of wistfulness and I felt like it was a slightly

Elaine: different take because the voices were so different between

Elaine: Bonnie Raitt's version and George Michael's version.

Trist: Another key to just what a well

Trist: written song it is, is how many

Trist: covers.

Trist: There's a Boys II Men cover.

Trist: There's an Adele version.

Trist: I'm an insanely crazy Prince fan, and Prince did a cover of

Trist: it that I don't necessarily care for all that much.

Trist: But yeah, there's the George- and there's also a live version.

Trist: He did an MTV "Unplugged" special that he sings this on as

Trist: well, with some live strings and background singers, and of

Trist: course "Unplugged," so all mostly acoustic instruments,

Trist: really cool performance, really beautiful, tender delivery.

Elaine: Well, I heard that in this one.

Elaine: Besides the voices, which were significantly different, the

Elaine: instrumentation was very different as well.

Elaine: And I felt like that really shifted the tone as well.

Elaine: So instead of what you were

Elaine: talking about, that blues rock

Elaine: background of Bonnie Raitt, the

Elaine: way that she delivered, the way

Elaine: that the instrument supported

Elaine: her was very different than the

Elaine: very acoustic version that we

Elaine: heard in this track, which was

Elaine: much more strings, much more

Elaine: piano, acoustic guitar, upright

Elaine: bass, and,

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: uh, very simple kit drums.

Elaine: And I just felt like it was a

Elaine: bit more pulled back in some

Elaine: ways a lot more restrained than

Elaine: the

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: Bonnie Raitt version.

Elaine: I don't know if this is mapping to reality because I haven't

Elaine: heard that song in a little while, but this is

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: from memory here.

Trist: I don't know if he did it for the MTV show first.

Trist: And that's why I kind of stuck with that arrangement.

Trist: I'm forgetting the exact order,

Trist: but they're both very close in

Trist: time.

Trist: I like this one specifically the most, the one that we have in

Trist: the show notes.

Trist: And I believe it's only going to

Trist: be a YouTube clip because it's

Trist: not on any of the streamers this

Trist: way.

Trist: The live one isn't this way.

Trist: There's a lot of ways to listen to the song and you feel like

Trist: it's the same, but when you love it as much as I do, you miss all

Trist: the little spots that you loved.

Trist: It's like, "Wait.

Trist: He took a breath there.

Trist: That's what I loved, is that he didn't take a breath there."

Trist: So there are a few differences.

Trist: Listen again and listen to some of the phrasing and some of the

Trist: places maybe he connects where you weren't expecting.

Trist: It has a few different alternate

Trist: notes, that are very much in his

Trist: style, that actually fit this

Trist: perfectly.

Trist: Sometimes he does things that

Trist: are very George Michael that

Trist: don't necessarily fit the song,

Trist: but this one, it really, really

Trist: does.

Elaine: That is interesting because

Elaine: there were definitely some

Elaine: vowels that he used that I

Elaine: heard.

Elaine: I was like, oh, that's such a George Michael thing to do.

Elaine: And it was almost distracting to

Elaine: me because it was very typical

Elaine: George Michael

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: and it wasn't the Bonnie Raitt

Elaine: kind of way of approaching

Elaine: vowels or just the way that she

Elaine: pronounces things that I'm like,

Elaine: eh, well, I don't know if I

Elaine: prefer it, but I understand it's

Elaine: his style.

Trist: When I first happened upon it, I

Trist: was like, oh, wow, he's doing

Trist: this song.

Trist: Let me check this out.

Trist: I remember specifically hearing, because I was such a fan and

Trist: heard so many recordings.

Trist: There was a few sounds that I

Trist: was like, oh, wow, I've never

Trist: heard that timbre or that part

Trist: of his range on that vowel

Trist: before.

Trist: Like there were literally tone

Trist: colors he was using that I had

Trist: never heard him use in any other

Trist: song before.

Trist: So it really surprised me

Trist: because he has again, his stock

Trist: like this is the quiet little

Trist: spot.

Trist: This is the belty spot.

Trist: And it's just consistent gold coming out of his chords that

Trist: anytime I heard these other little vowel sounds, I was

Trist: always surprised, but in a good way, like, oh, wow.

Trist: Okay.

Trist: He's either feeling this in a

Trist: way, or he's aging in such a way

Trist: that he can't transition between

Trist: these two voices as much or I'm

Trist: not sure what, but I

Trist: specifically remember sounds

Trist: that I hadn't heard from him

Trist: before.

Elaine: So there were two other things

Elaine: that I heard that I'd love to

Elaine: call out.

Elaine: One of them was the treble chorus.

Elaine: And so there's a chorus starting at about minute four or

Trist: The

Elaine: so.

Trist: background singers come in.

Elaine: Exactly.

Elaine: And

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: it was funny because I didn't

Elaine: hear them until the second time

Elaine: through.

Elaine: And I was like, Oh!

Elaine: They are there

Trist: Right.

Elaine: and they're so good.

Elaine: But I think that part of the reason I didn't hear them at

Elaine: first is that they are mixed in so well, they're

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: definitely part of the texture.

Elaine: I know that you've

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: talked about background vocals

Elaine: being more textural, and this is

Elaine: one where I was like, oh, it was

Elaine: textural.

Elaine: I didn't even hear it until I was listening to it, but

Trist: Yep.

Elaine: it was also a lot more soulful.

Elaine: I felt

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: like the voices in and of

Elaine: themselves, it wasn't a choral

Elaine: "ooh," it was definitely more of

Elaine: a soul gospel "ooh" that I

Elaine: heard.

Elaine: Can you tell me anything about that?

Trist: Right at that time he had

Trist: anywhere between six and nine

Trist: background singers that were

Trist: just always incredible,

Trist: especially strongly featured on

Trist: that previously mentioned MTV

Trist: "Unplugged."

Trist: There's still not an official video release of that, but if

Trist: you know the dark arts of the internet, you can find it.

Trist: But they have officially

Trist: released the audio from all

Trist: those and the background singers

Trist: are just incredible on those

Trist: sessions.

Trist: The original song actually has

Trist: background vocals in about the

Trist: same spot.

Trist: They're not as predominant and there aren't as many of them.

Trist: And yeah, they're also back into the texture.

Trist: They're not even as forefront as these are.

Trist: The background vocals are definitely an important part of

Trist: this era of recording for him.

Elaine: When you say the background

Elaine: vocals, are you talking about

Elaine: the original George Michael

Elaine: version?

Elaine: Are you talking about the Bonnie Raitt version?

Trist: Uh, both.

Elaine: Oh wow.

Elaine: They both have the background

Trist: They both

Elaine: vocals

Trist: have background

Elaine: as texture.

Trist: vocals in that

Elaine: Oh,

Trist: same spot.

Elaine: interesting.

Trist: Um, and it's easy to miss.

Trist: When I listened again, I was

Trist: like, oh, there are some

Trist: background vocals right there in

Trist: the original.

Trist: It's voiced a little bit differently.

Trist: There are more voices, it sounds

Trist: like on the George and the

Trist: chord's opened up a little bit

Trist: more, spread a little bit

Trist: farther.

Trist: but it's the same basic function within each style.

Elaine: Interesting.

Elaine: Well, that brings me to the second thing that I noticed,

Elaine: which was the ending.

Elaine: And I was

Trist: Uh,

Elaine: like, whoa, whoa whoa whoa.

Elaine: Where did

Trist: okay.

Elaine: that ending come from?

Elaine: And

Trist: We did

Elaine: so.

Trist: this whole podcast just so we can talk about this

Elaine: Okay.

Trist: ending.

Elaine: And you know, he's talking about "someone's gonna love me."

Elaine: It is a complete left turn.

Elaine: And it was so interesting.

Elaine: I'm like, wait, what do you mean you're stopping here?

Elaine: I thought it was a new movement that we were going into that was

Elaine: going to be his invention, some kind of introduction,

Trist: Exactly.

Elaine: his version of it.

Trist: This is what I'm saying, Elaine.

Trist: Send this to everybody you know, and somebody needs to find us

Trist: the answer what the story is.

Trist: So the first time I hear this,

Trist: I'm just like, now wait a

Trist: minute.

Trist: I can't decide if I'm annoyed or that's the coolest thing ever.

Trist: Or I've just got this wave of

Trist: emotions because this song has a

Trist: vibe.

Trist: It is not a happy one.

Trist: It's not looking forward.

Trist: It's not things are going to get better.

Trist: It's not life can be great.

Trist: It's not you never know what's around the corner.

Trist: That's not the message of this song.

Trist: This song is a downer.

Trist: It's beautiful.

Trist: But man, it's deeply heartfelt.

Trist: It's a bummer.

Trist: I can't make you love me if you don't.

Trist: just that line is just like, UGH.

Trist: That's the vibe of this song.

Trist: And he's gonna like, have a

Trist: different little chord change at

Trist: the end.

Trist: And then just like a glass half

Trist: full, someone's gonna love-

Trist: what?

Trist: No you can't- On one hand, I'm

Trist: like, wait, wait, that changes

Trist: the entire experience we just

Trist: had!

Trist: It's like, there's all this, but

Trist: hey, the sun will come out

Trist: tomorrow.

Trist: So I need to know, did the songwriters ever hear this and

Trist: have the same reaction as me?

Trist: Like, no, what are you doing?

Trist: Or they're mad because they actually like it and wish they

Trist: had thought of it?

Trist: But here's the next thing.

Trist: So the recording that we keep referring, the highlighted one

Trist: that we want you to listen to.

Trist: It has that at the end.

Trist: There are many versions of this that are out there online that

Trist: the label put out.

Trist: The line is not there.

Trist: Even the MTV "Unplugged" video

Trist: that I managed to obtain that

Trist: I'm probably not supposed to

Trist: have.

Trist: He sings that on the live video.

Elaine: I was going to ask that because I was wondering if

Trist: He.

Elaine: he had intentionally done it, because the alternate

Elaine: explanation that I had was

Trist: I'm not

Elaine: that,

Trist: done.

Elaine: oh, maybe it has to do with the next track.

Elaine: It's leading

Trist: Nope.

Elaine: into the next track, but

Trist: Nope.

Elaine: if he's singing it in the MTV

Elaine: version, that means that it was

Elaine: intentional.

Elaine: Okay, tell me more about that.

Trist: The ones that I've seen that have been put out there on

Trist: YouTube by the label that you're supposed to see.

Trist: It's taken out.

Trist: It's not a different version.

Trist: It's the same recording and it is edited out.

Trist: The little chord happens

Trist: differently and there's no

Trist: vocal.

Trist: There are several instances of that vocal being removed, so I

Trist: just want to know the story.

Trist: I want to know if the

Trist: songwriters and the publishers

Trist: came in and said, that isn't

Trist: there.

Trist: Get that out of there.

Trist: I don't know who decided.

Trist: I need to know the story about this, because I've always

Trist: thought that that was a very interesting choice to just flip

Trist: the whole vibe of the song to like this positive outlook.

Trist: If anybody please somebody has to know more about this.

Trist: I've looked in Reddit threads, I've looked in fan pages, I've

Trist: looked all over the place, but I've not seen any information.

Trist: at the most someone's like, "oh yeah, it was interesting how

Trist: this one version has him sing this and this one doesn't."

Trist: Well, I already know that.

Trist: I just want to know.

Trist: So I went on and on and on about that.

Trist: So you tell me what you thought

Trist: as you heard that at the end of

Trist: the song?

Elaine: I was surprised, and I think a

Elaine: big part of the surprise had to

Elaine: do with A, I wasn't expecting

Elaine: it.

Elaine: I was expecting the song to

Elaine: close because I knew the song,

Elaine: but I think B it was musically

Elaine: so different.

Elaine: It was definitely one of those things where the chord.

Elaine: This is a very simple rock song.

Elaine: This is

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: a very simple song

Trist: Little

Elaine: from

Trist: pop ballad.

Elaine: a chord

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: perspective, and it just definitely hit a different- I

Elaine: mean, I said left turn.

Elaine: I really do mean left turn, just musically, it sounds like, yep,

Elaine: I've tacked something on at the very end and it's like, oh,

Elaine: where did that come from?

Elaine: It's interesting that you

Elaine: mention the sense of hopefulness

Elaine: in that.

Elaine: I'm not entirely sure that I'd

Elaine: processed enough to be able to

Elaine: say whether it was hopeful or

Elaine: not.

Elaine: Definitely a huge surprise for

Elaine: me, and I don't think I got

Elaine: beyond that.

Trist: Again, it's the only thing that looks ahead in the entire song.

Trist: The entire song is looking back

Trist: how, there's love going in one

Trist: direction.

Trist: And I can't make you love me back.

Elaine: In previous songs, we've talked about how lyrics paint a series

Elaine: of vignettes or they paint a picture of the emotions.

Elaine: This one in particular sounds so

Elaine: intimate because it describes

Elaine: one moment,

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: one emotion.

Elaine: In incredible depth.

Elaine: And you find out so much about this relationship.

Elaine: In just two verses and this repeated chorus.

Elaine: So, the line that you've referenced is the one that

Elaine: definitely tells us like, oh, this is what's going on.

Elaine: But there's this very descriptive turn down the

Elaine: lights, turn down the bed, we're going to have this intimate

Elaine: moment, but there's a sense of wistfulness as a part of that.

Elaine: Like, don't patronize me.

Elaine: Right?

Elaine: Just lay down with me.

Elaine: And then you find out that at the very end of a relationship

Elaine: as opposed to, your typical everyday, every night kind of

Elaine: thing, an intimate moment.

Elaine: In the second verse, the singer talks in some ways of

Elaine: constructing this world in this moment, saying, I just want to

Elaine: pretend that things are okay.

Elaine: And I think that leads to that sense of tragedy.

Elaine: We all understand what it means

Elaine: to be in a relationship that is

Elaine: breaking up.

Elaine: You're in this moment at the

Elaine: very end, and sometimes it's

Elaine: explosive, right?

Elaine: And like, all this stuff happens.

Elaine: But this particular one is like, I know we're ending.

Elaine: I know that tomorrow the reality is going to hit.

Trist: Mhm.

Elaine: But just for tonight, let's just pretend.

Elaine: And so there is something in there that is heart wrenching,

Elaine: but it's describing one particular moment in an

Elaine: incredible depth, as opposed to the other types of lyrics

Trist: Right,

Elaine: that we've talked about previously.

Trist: right.

Trist: Which is just more follow up for

Trist: not adding that line at the end

Trist: about, well, someone's gonna

Trist: love me.

Trist: Like it's all of that, that we just said, yes.

Trist: And it's so well crafted, so well done.

Trist: So just to tag that on again is, I think really cool and also

Trist: baffling and weird.

Trist: And I still have never decided if I like it or hate it.

Elaine: I file that under, "It's a choice."

Trist: Well, and of course I like the version of it so much.

Trist: And his singing is so beautiful and like I said, I really heard

Trist: this song for the first time.

Trist: I was like, oh wow.

Trist: Yeah, the song is really well done.

Trist: Then when that is added, I'm always like, what is happening?

Trist: Anyway,

Elaine: Okay, so

Trist: okay.

Elaine: anything else to say about this song before we wrap

Trist: Oh,

Elaine: up?

Trist: that's it.

Trist: I hope this is the most comments we ever get.

Trist: Tell us your favorite version.

Trist: Tell us your least favorite version.

Trist: Tell us versions of it that we might not even know about.

Trist: You can let your friends know about this and spread the word

Trist: and help us find out the mystery of that extra line and if it was

Trist: added, by whom?

Trist: And if it was taken out by whom?

Trist: You can do all of that how, Elaine?

Elaine: Well, you can email us at

Elaine: themusiciansloupe@gmail.com,

Elaine: that's L o u p e, or you can

Elaine: message us on Instagram or

Elaine: Threads @themusiciansloupe.

Elaine: So help us out here.

Elaine: Help us to figure this out.

Elaine: We're on the hunt.

Elaine: We have a mission.

Trist: Yes. Please let us know.

Trist: And now the mail bag.

Trist: Yes. The mailbag where we answer your questions.

Trist: What do we have today, Elaine?

Elaine: Well, we have a comment from threads.

Elaine: This is from @dannythefierce on Threads from December 2025.

Elaine: And he is an elementary music educator.

Elaine: He says cold take colon not a hot take cold take.

Elaine: The number one goal of

Elaine: elementary music teachers is to

Elaine: build a community of people that

Elaine: love music.

Elaine: Not reading music, not writing it.

Elaine: Not recalling the definition of symbols.

Elaine: But if a music teacher can connect a community to the joy

Elaine: of music making, singing with friends, playing games with

Elaine: songs, and even fostering a passion for actively making

Elaine: music with one another.

Elaine: That's how you get kids to choose to be musicians in their

Elaine: later years slash adult life.

Trist: Yes. What is there to talk about?

Trist: Yes.

Elaine: I'm interested in hearing a little bit more about your

Elaine: experience with music in elementary school in particular.

Elaine: I have my own stories, and I

Elaine: would love to be able to share

Elaine: that.

Elaine: But I'd love to hear from you.

Elaine: What kinds of experiences did you have and how do you think

Elaine: that's inspired you as an adult?

Trist: I think the way I might be an anomaly here is that I always

Trist: had some innate ability.

Trist: It came easily to me.

Trist: I naturally had a really good ear.

Trist: Music was just fun, something I loved.

Trist: So I never thought of it as something I was learning.

Trist: Sure, I was learning different

Trist: things, but I never thought

Trist: about that as a class I had to

Trist: learn something.

Trist: Oh, this was fun time and again, because I didn't have to

Trist: struggle through it.

Trist: It wasn't like, oh, my voice doesn't work great.

Trist: Or I don't have good pitch recognition.

Trist: I just loved it already.

Trist: I never thought about it as a thing you're even learning until

Trist: I was in high school.

Elaine: Well, can you tell me a little bit about the opportunities that

Elaine: you had in elementary school?

Elaine: Like, what did that look like?

Elaine: Did you have a dedicated music teacher?

Elaine: Was it a weekly thing?

Elaine: I don't know if you remember like elementary schools

Trist: Oh,

Elaine: a long time

Trist: I

Elaine: for

Trist: mean

Elaine: both of

Trist: yeah,

Elaine: us.

Trist: we well, in kindergarten, there

Trist: would have been stuff integrated

Trist: into the class with the regular

Trist: teacher.

Trist: But then starting in 1st through

Trist: 6th grade, there was a

Trist: particular teacher who was very

Trist: musically oriented, who also in

Trist: 4th grade, we did our own little

Trist: plays and musicals about Wyoming

Trist: history.

Trist: But outside of the class, once a week you would go to the music

Trist: class and there would be the Christmas performance and the

Trist: Easter performance, the end of the year performance, etc. just

Trist: the basic stuff.

Trist: I can't think of any other special opportunities, but

Trist: again, to me It was as much as saying, hey, it's recess time

Trist: when you get to go there.

Trist: So I didn't think of it in the way that you're asking, I guess.

Elaine: Part of the reason I maybe

Elaine: struggle with this a little bit

Elaine: is that my elementary school

Elaine: experience was, I don't want to

Elaine: say unusual.

Elaine: I just changed schools.

Elaine: I went

Trist: Ah.

Elaine: to a private school from kindergarten to fifth grade, and

Elaine: then I switched to public school in sixth grade.

Elaine: I think my school at the time was very similar to a lot of

Elaine: schools now, where arts funding was really a question mark.

Elaine: And so there was band, - I didn't audition for band.

Elaine: I remember there were some

Elaine: volunteers that came in for

Elaine: music appreciation, but that

Elaine: wasn't a very hands on kind of

Elaine: thing.

Elaine: Now, at the same time, I had private music lessons,

Trist: Mm.

Elaine: so I started in first grade learning piano, and so I learned

Elaine: how to play piano.

Elaine: I learned how to read music.

Elaine: Definitely by the time I hit fifth or sixth grade, I was

Elaine: playing fairly advanced things.

Elaine: So, your typical sixth grade kid learning how to play their

Elaine: instrument at the same time as learning how to read music.

Elaine: I was definitely playing Sonatinas at that point in time.

Elaine: So I think about my music experience as an elementary

Elaine: school kid and all of that was outside of school, so I really

Elaine: didn't have that experience.

Elaine: Now in my private school, I don't have memories of an

Elaine: explicit music course.

Elaine: And if I did, I probably would have been pretty bored because

Elaine: of the private music lessons that I had for such a long time.

Elaine: Like if I'm already reading at that level, putting a recorder

Elaine: in front of me and having me play Three Blind Mice is

Trist: Right.

Elaine: probably not super interesting

Trist: Exactly.

Elaine: to me.

Elaine: And as an adult, when I was a

Elaine: teacher, I had an opportunity to

Elaine: teach third graders recorder and

Elaine: I said, oh, heck no, because

Elaine: it's kind of like teaching

Elaine: violin.

Elaine: There's a lot of squeaking going on,

Trist: Yeah.

Elaine: so I wasn't entirely sure.

Elaine: I was like, I don't know if I

Elaine: want to be on the other side of

Elaine: this.

Trist: Yeah, I'm remembering that now you're saying these things.

Trist: So I do remember the recorder was third grade.

Trist: I didn't even think about music being such an important part of

Trist: my life until I was in high school and barely even then.

Elaine: I think one of the things that

Elaine: comes to mind as we're sharing

Elaine: our different experiences, like,

Elaine: first of all, how important arts

Elaine: education is in elementary

Elaine: school, and

Trist: Mmhm.

Elaine: especially in a world right now

Elaine: where people are talking about

Elaine: STEM.

Elaine: And certainly I'm in

Elaine: engineering, so definitely a big

Elaine: STEM proponent.

Elaine: But lately people have been talking about STEAM.

Elaine: And adding arts in there because they understand that it is a

Elaine: really important part of the human experience to be able to

Elaine: explore all these different aspects of artistic expression,

Elaine: and how we can inspire the next generation that way.

Elaine: And at the same time, I think about my own experience.

Elaine: And none of that applied to me because I did zero corporate

Elaine: music until I hit college.

Elaine: So I felt like that was an

Elaine: interesting thing for me to

Elaine: think about.

Elaine: And in some ways, like, oh, I think I missed out.

Elaine: And at the same time, I had so

Elaine: much privilege because I had the

Elaine: ability to take one on one

Elaine: lessons with a piano teacher who

Elaine: I loved.

Elaine: So I think that that is an

Elaine: interesting thing to think about

Elaine: is like, what are the roles of

Elaine: our early musical influences in

Elaine: the choices that we make later

Elaine: in life.

Elaine: And I know other students of my

Elaine: piano teacher, other students

Elaine: who were active in music all

Elaine: throughout middle school and

Elaine: high school who aren't musicians

Elaine: today.

Elaine: And so I don't think it is so much a funnel as much as it is.

Elaine: There are many roads that lead to Rome, and one of them is the

Elaine: public school system or the school system in general.

Elaine: And there is definitely this sense of for the kids who can be

Elaine: inspired to a lifetime of passion when it comes to music,

Elaine: there are lots of different ways to inspire a kid to do that.

Trist: And I think what he's getting at

Trist: here, even more importantly, is

Trist: just having it be something

Trist: that's understood.

Trist: That's just an accepted thing.

Trist: Music is an important part of their lives.

Trist: And whether they go on to do it for the rest of their lives,

Trist: they can appreciate it, goodness knows the artists need

Trist: knowledgeable audiences that understand the level of the art

Trist: that they're experiencing, even if it is just basic

Trist: understanding of form, especially a little bit more

Trist: complex musics, different classical styles, jazz styles.

Trist: You don't need to know all about

Trist: all the chords and all of the

Trist: scales and the modes, but even

Trist: just having that little bit of

Trist: knowledge of form, the basis of

Trist: improvisation, it leaves you

Trist: open to be able to enjoy what's

Trist: happening.

Trist: Like anything, once you know

Trist: just enough about how something

Trist: works, it's a whole different

Trist: experience.

Trist: I noticed that when we traveled

Trist: in different groups I've been

Trist: in, I've traveled to Japan

Trist: especially and throughout

Trist: Europe.

Trist: In Japan generally the

Trist: requirements for arts go through

Trist: university.

Trist: It's like, oh, I'm a business major at this university.

Trist: Oh, cool.

Trist: What's the arts component you're taking this semester?

Trist: So, it's just kind of a required

Trist: part of their educational life,

Trist: no matter what their main topic

Trist: is.

Trist: And then I see that when we go perform, jazz music there, the

Trist: general attentiveness of the audience is different.

Trist: They respect is different.

Trist: They're listening for more

Trist: particular things, understanding

Trist: what's happening.

Trist: And the applauses almost messes you up when you first get over

Trist: there because they applaud for such a great amount of time in

Trist: between, while they are absolutely dead silent while

Trist: you're making the music and you're accustomed to some

Trist: reactions and you don't get any, and the first couple times

Trist: you're there, it's like, wait a minute, do they not like this?

Trist: Because you get programmed to,

Trist: oh, the response at that one

Trist: stop time or the really high

Trist: chord or something that happens,

Trist: you'll hear reactions in the

Trist: American audience.

Trist: And then when the Japanese audience doesn't give it to you,

Trist: you just think, oh man, maybe they don't like it, but they're

Trist: just being respectful and they save that applause till the end,

Trist: and it's four times as long as you're ready for, and you can't

Trist: even move on to the next song.

Trist: Anyway, it's important in creating audience as much as it

Trist: is creating musicians.

Elaine: I love that.

Elaine: I want to go back to maybe the core of what Danny was talking

Elaine: about here and maybe close on this, which is fun.

Elaine: Music

Trist: Yes.

Elaine: is just fun, and so inspiring that sense of joy in music

Elaine: creation is so important.

Elaine: So, Danny, I'm guessing you're never going to hear this, but

Elaine: shout out to you.

Elaine: You are doing such important

Elaine: work in investing in the next

Elaine: generation.

Elaine: So thank you very much.

Trist: Yeah, absolutely.

Trist: The joy of the music making, not the judgment of the others that

Trist: you're singing with, not who is the best one in the class.

Trist: At that age, it's still just,

Trist: hey, we're all just singing

Trist: along.

Trist: Definitely, Danny, the joy of music making is why you are

Trist: there is to impart that to America's youth, and hopefully

Trist: they can keep that with them throughout their lives.

Elaine: And so with that, we're going to wrap up for this week.

Elaine: But before we end, I do want to encourage you all, please,

Elaine: please, please share an episode.

Elaine: Obviously if you're listening to us, you love what we're doing.

Elaine: We would love for you to share an episode or two with a friend,

Elaine: someone who you think might enjoy our podcast as well.

Trist: Or someone who might know the answer to our question.

Trist: What's up with the last line of this song?

Trist: or a friend of yours who their favorite version of this song is

Trist: not the George Michael one.

Trist: So please share this episode

Trist: with someone or share the

Trist: playlist that we have on any of

Trist: the platforms where we have the

Trist: links available and maybe they

Trist: can file through and maybe some

Trist: song will interest them and

Trist: they'll want to know more about

Trist: it.

Trist: And this is where you can check it out.

Trist: We appreciate it.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: We'll see you next week.

Trist: Bye!

Trist: This week is about I Will Always Love You.

Trist: No. Ha ha.

Trist: How did you know, Elaine?

Trist: That was an amazing guess.

Elaine: it's almost done.