Heidi Swain on Walking on Sunshine: A Story of New Beginnings

In this uplifting episode, Heidi Swain joins Helen to discuss her latest novel, Walking on Sunshine. We follow Tilly as she returns to her childhood village after the loss of her father, navigating grief, rediscovering home, and finding the courage to start again.

Heidi shares the inspiration behind the story, the importance of setting in her writing, and how themes of friendship, community, and resilience shape her work. She also offers insight into her creative process and reflects on the joy of telling stories that bring comfort and hope.

To discover more of Heidi's books head to her website: https://heidiswain.co.uk/

What we talk about:

• The story behind Walking on Sunshine
• Writing about grief, home, and new beginnings
• The power of place in storytelling
• Heidi’s creative process and inspirations

Books that shaped Heidi

Of course, no episode of Best Book Forward is complete without book recommendations. Here are the books that have shaped Heidi, you’ll find links to buy below:

• Winnie The Pooh by A.A. Milne
• In and Out of the Garden by Sara Midda (currently out of print)
• A Room With A View by E.M. Forster
• A Village Affair by Joanna Trollope
• The Darling Buds of May by H.E. Bates

I’ll be back next week with another author conversation, and I’d love for you to join me for that too.

In the meantime, if you’ve enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review Best Book Forward, and don’t forget to tell your friends... it really helps new listeners discover the show.

See you tomorrow, and happy listening.

Listen & Subscribe Now:

https://best-book-forward.captivate.fm/listen

To stay in touch with Best Book Forward news please follow me on Instagram @bestbookforward or visit my website: https://bestbookforward.org/

Welcome back to Best Book Forward.

I'm Helen and this is the podcast where I chat with authors about the books that have shaped their lives.

You can think of it as like a bookish version of Desert Island Discs.

Today I'm delighted to welcome Sunday Times best selling author Heidi Swain to the show.

Heidi writes uplifting, feel good fiction and her novels are known for their strong sense of community, family and friendship.

She joins me today to talk about her 22nd novel.

Yes, you heard that right, 22nd.

Walking on Sunshine, which is out today.

Walking on Sunshine follows the story of Tilly as she returns to Willow well, the picturesque village where she spent her childhood summers.

After the death of her father, she's looking for a fresh start.

But coming back to Willow well means facing some old memories as well as new possibilities.

And it is such a joyful and uplifting read, one that I would definitely recommend.

Today, Heidi and I will chat about Walking on Sunshine, her writing life, and of course, the five books that have shaped her life.

So grab your cup of tea and let's dive straight in and give Heidi a warm welcome to the show.

Heidi, welcome and thank you so much for joining me today.

Thank you for inviting me.

I've got a feeling this is going to be a really exciting afternoon.

We were just saying we have chatted for probably about 20 minutes before we press record, so we've saved some for all the listeners, don't worry, but we've had a lovely time already.

So we're here today to talk about your 22nd novel, Walking on Sunshine, which is just, just incredible.

This podcast is coming out on its publication day as well, so people will be able to rush out and grab a copy, which is very exciting.

So do you want to start by giving everyone a little flavor of what it's all about?

Okay, so yeah, 22nd novel.

How did I even know how that happened?

To be honest, but that's amazing.

So Walking on Sunshine is set in the Suffolk countryside, which is a setting that I haven't visited before.

And it's based around the village of Willow well, a fictitious village.

I like to keep my settings fictitious so I can take bits from all my favourite places and jumble them all up.

So that's where we're going.

And the main character is Tilly and Tilly is kind of trying to find her courage to embrace a different life to the one that she's been living.

She kind of needs to take the reins and take back control and in order to do that, she goes to Willow well, which is where she Used to spend.

Spend happy holidays with her dad and her brother.

So she's kind of collecting these childhood memories together and she's going to follow her heart and she will not believe what's going to happen to her when she lands there.

So that's a little bit about it.

I don't want to say too much.

I don't want to give away any spoilers.

No.

And actually I thought that when I was preparing, because I was like, oh, we could talk about that.

And I was like, oh, no, actually that's a bit of a spoiler.

So we'll.

Tricky, isn't it?

It is tricky.

It's tricky.

Particularly when it's like, I guess if we were doing this and it'd be now a few months, then maybe we could sort of dive in a little bit more.

But I'll come back.

You'll come back.

But I always think I'd hate to be the person to sort of ruin a reading experience with somebody because it's so lovely and it would be even

worse, wouldn't it, if it was me who did it?

So, you know, I just rein myself in and not be comfortable.

We will be.

Good.

So let's go back to the start then, and think about the inspiration for Walking on Sunshine.

Where did the idea for Willow?

Well, and Tilly and all the characters come from?

Well, for me, when I'm writing, it's always about setting.

Setting has to come first for me.

I have tried to write a book a different way and I wasted a lot of time.

I need to have the stage set and see who's going to walk in.

So I knew I wanted to go somewhere new.

And I am obsessed with my walks to the woods every day.

Anybody who follows me on social media will know that I'm always posting about witchy things and about the woods and nature and the different seasons.

And I just thought it would be wonderful to be able to put that.

I've touched on it in other books, but I really wanted to put the woods front and center and maybe make other people feel inspired to get out there and go to the.

To the woods.

So that was where the setting came from.

I was also hearing a lot of, I'm going to get on with it and do it when I'm going to wait for the right time to do this.

I was hearing a lot of that.

So I wanted to write about a character.

I mean, Tilly, she has got a bit of a head up.

A heads up will not.

I won't say that she's starting from nothing, because she isn't.

I think we find out right at the beginning of the book that her father has died.

And so she has been left a share of his estate.

And she's using that to create this new start, this fresh start.

So it was kind of a combination of things, really.

Me loving going to the woods and me wanting to sort of encourage people just to go for it, like so many people encouraged me when I started out writing.

And that was where the inspiration came from.

Enter stage right.

Tilly, I love that.

And as you were saying that, I've just pulled out a piece of paper here because I hadn't said we were going to talk about it, but the dedication at the front of the book, now that you said that, so it reads.

This book is dedicated to everyone who is looking for the courage to follow their hearts.

And I just thought that was so lovely.

We were just talking about this as well before, like, you know, people who start writing late or whatever, there isn't ever a perfect.

Well there.

I think the right time sometimes, you know, makes itself obvious.

But that's so lovely.

And also, I think I always used to say when I was preparing to start my writing career, I won't wait until the children are a bit older.

I'll wait until I've got more time.

That's the worst one.

Because newsflash.

As you get older, you realize that time doesn't magically appear.

It doesn't suddenly become 25 hours in a day.

And you can take that extra one for.

For doing whatever it is that you want to do.

So a case of fitting my writing in around a small family and looking after the house and working as well, and.

And just had to go for it.

And that's what I want other people to do.

That's such a lovely message.

I love that.

And Tilly's journey of what she does as well is incredible.

So we'll talk about the setting a little bit more later, but let's talk about the characters.

I just said to you, there are so many characters in this book that I could sit and chat to you about, but we can't.

We can't be here for three hours.

No, we can't.

Well, we.

But the listeners would drop off.

So again, talk about Tilly and Constance, who I absolutely loved.

I loved them individually and I loved their relationship.

I have a real thing at the moment for sort of intergenerational friendships.

I think it's so wonderful, particularly between women.

There's so much that can be gained from it, from both Sides?

Yeah, I think so.

I would love to know about these two characters.

How did they form?

Did they sort of evolve as you wrote, or did you just always know them quite clearly from the start?

I think I did know them quite clearly, actually, especially Constance.

I envisaged her in this big house with a big garden, very much on her own.

You know, she's stubborn and she's set in her ways, but she's also extremely generous and she's got a heart of gold.

And she just felt like the perfect person to nurture Tilly's dream, if you like, to.

To encourage Tilly.

Yeah.

And help her become brave.

Because it's not an easy thing to do, and especially if you're doing it on your own.

You know, Untily, she is very much on her own.

She's got a brother who lives abroad.

That's not a spoiler, because we've known that in the first few pages.

So she's.

She's completely on her own.

She's not someone who makes friends very easily.

She hasn't found her tribe yet, and she's not had her parents for long enough.

She didn't have her grandparents for long enough.

So I wanted to make Constance kind of a point of difference.

It's not just a friend, you know, Tilly develops other friendships with Piers, her own age, within the book.

But it just felt like Constance could be a really important older, guiding, more experienced, if you like, kind of kind of hand to help her on the way.

And she was just such fun to write.

I love writing older characters.

This isn't the first time that I have used intergenerational friendships.

And I have also written about a care home as a setting in the Nightingale Square books.

Because there is just so much to value, as you say, within those relationships of older and younger people.

You've got so much scope.

So, yeah, Constance was just.

She was there and her sense of humor was there, and she was just perfectly formed right from the get go.

Yeah, she is amazing.

But equally for her.

Well, Tilly needs, you know, to find her tribe.

Constance also gains a lot.

You know, Tilly is somebody who's very caring, but she also sort of helps her live her life again.

And I just loved that sort of role between the two of them.

And it's.

It was very believable.

Like, they.

To me, they felt really real.

The whole thing felt very real.

That's great.

That's great to know.

Thank you.

And Constance, of course, she doesn't actually realize that she needs anybody.

She's very self Sufficient.

Living her kind of small life.

Her world has become very small.

And it's not until Tilly arrives and they start to do some things together that she kind of spreads her wings again.

So it's kind of like she's a bit of a phoenix in this book, Constance, she kind of.

She starts to shine.

So they kind of.

Yeah, as you say, they help each other out.

Yeah.

I'm just going slightly off again.

If this were a movie, do you have any idea who would play Constance?

Have you ever thought about that?

I have no idea.

Oh, I don't know.

Maybe.

Maybe someone like Judi Dench.

Yeah, she would be.

Yeah, she would be amazing.

I think I had a random thought,

though, and it wouldn't work.

She'd have to be a lot older.

But Helena Bonham Carter, when she is older.

Oh, yes.

Or.

Or dressed up to be.

Because I was like, just something about that sort of strength of character.

Quite quirky.

She just popped into my head then.

I was, like, too young now to play her.

But by the time the movie deal kicks in.

Yeah, exactly.

Be perfect.

Never say never.

But, yeah, you've hit the nail on the head there.

She would be absolutely perfect.

Yeah, I can.

I can very easily see that.

So, yeah, she'd be great.

Sorry, that was very random.

So you talked about the setting and how important they are for you.

And I always love your books.

I feel like I sort of know the areas as well, but with Walking on Sunshine, there were so many parts, particularly because I was reading it in February when it was raining forever.

It just felt like.

Oh, it was awful.

It literally did feel like I was diving into sunshine, but with the woods and this beautiful lake.

So you said that you sort of cherry pick sort of areas that you love.

So how did you go about building Willow?

Well, then.

Well, I wanted the river which runs at the bottom of the garden of Fernside, which is where Constance lives.

I wanted the river to kind of be the thing that pulled the two women together.

Because Tilly has very fond memories of this river from when she was a child.

And obviously it runs through the bottom of the garden at Fernside.

So the.

So the river kind of connected them.

So that just felt like the perfect.

I don't know, just kind of like the perfect thing.

And you see.

Right.

I don't want to say too much, but you see right in the first chapter how this river is going to, to a certain extent, bring these two women together.

And then the woods.

I just think I've kind of created my dream.

My dream Woods.

And there is a scene in a book that we may potentially be going to talk about later that features a swimming area in it.

And it's stunning.

Well, the little lake at Willow, well, isn't quite stunning yet, but it's got, you know, it's got potential.

So it was.

It was just bringing in all those things that I love and all those things that I notice when I'm out on my walks.

There is a pond that fills over the winter where I walk, and it's sort of.

It's overflowing at the moment for thanks to all the rain in February and it dries out as the summer goes on.

So, yeah, it was kind of just treating myself to creating the perfect place to write about, really, which, I have to admit, I do all the time.

That's so lovely.

I mean, I think obviously this is coming out in April, so hopefully by then everything will have dried out and things.

Normally when I read a book, you know, I'm thinking, oh, I'm so happy, I'm sat on my chair and sort of diving in.

But it really did made me long for that sort of.

I mean, I've always said I am meant to live by water.

I live by the river.

Yeah.

But in the last few years, I found myself being more drawn to the woods.

So I walked my dog in the woods as well.

Just the way you wrote about it, I could.

It just felt like you had taken me into this beautiful woodland and just sort of walked me through.

It's so lovely, Heidi.

I love that.

And I think it's because, you know, I feel so passionate about the woods near where I am.

We've got here.

So you've got open fields.

You've got an ancient covered lane which is.

Goes down to the woods.

We've got two woods, which I call the Secret Wood, and just the regular wood, the Skylark Meadow, because we've got skylarks flying over there.

And I have had a passion for the outdoors since I was really, really small.

So I think creating the setting of Willow well was just something I. I found so easy to do because I was imagining myself walking all these paths and all the bits and pieces that I would tune into as I.

As I went round.

So.

So, yeah, that's my daily commute, an hour's walk to the woods.

So I get out of my writing room, go for a walk for an hour and come back and make a start.

It's very good.

It's good for the soul.

I was gonna say it must be the healthiest commute.

When they do say that, there's so many benefits of being there.

And actually, as I say, where I've been sort of drawn to it recently, to walk the dog more there.

I feel like when I come back, I do feel calmer and I just.

But I do find myself sort of standing and looking up a lot and

thinking, yes, that's lovely.

It just takes you out.

And I kind of do this thing where if I'm walking along and I'm thinking to.

If I'm too much in my head.

I've got this strategy now where I just look around me and I know they made Winnie the Pooh do this when he was on a train.

He's looking out of the window and naming all the things he can see.

But that's what I do.

So it'll be like oak tree, brambles, ivy, moss, and I just start go listing everything I can see.

And that just brings me right back into the moment.

It's a wonderful strategy.

Yeah.

I've heard somebody.

Sorry, I was going to say apart from this morning, because I got very overexcited because I had my best sighting of a bullfinch ever.

And I was just ecstatic about that.

So I couldn't think about anything else on the walk this morning other than the fact that I'd been up close and personal with this gorgeous bullfinch.

I love that.

I love.

And actually, as I'm getting older, things like that really sort of mean so much more.

I went on a walk with some ladies last week or the beginning of this week, and they were sort of chatting.

I was like, look, look.

Look at the rabbits, like a child.

Because you think we're so lucky to have it.

Like, we're so lucky.

I mean, where I live in Marlowe, there's all these plans to build sort of film studios and things, and I'm like, oh, please, please don't, don't.

It's so beautiful.

And we all regret it.

Yeah, probably.

Probably.

I mean, when I moved into this house, I had no idea that that was all on my doorstep.

Oh, really?

And it just kind of feels like I was meant to be.

Be here now, you know, it's a secret garden and it's like a minute away on foot, which is just perfect.

Perfect.

I could talk about woods all day, but we're not here to talk about woods all day.

No, but it is.

It's an important part of the book and it is lovely in the book.

It's such a joy to read.

So

a lot of your books are in A series.

We have Windbridge now.

We've got Willow well as well.

There's lots of characters in Willow well who I just loved.

And I was like, I can tell they've got like stories bubbling away and there's things I'd like to know about them.

So, Heidi, will you be taking us back there to meet any of the other people we meet in Walking on Sunshine at any time?

I really hope so.

So obviously this is the first book and you never know how well it's going to be received.

Netgalley reviews so far have been amazing and I'm thrilled about that because I kind of find this the most nerve wracking time.

Actually.

I finished the book and I know I'm happy with it, as is my agent, my editor and the team.

But it's waiting to give it to my wonderful readers and hearing what they think, that's really scary.

And it doesn't get any, any easier, however.

So when Nightingale Square first came out, that was the first in the series, but we weren't sure how well that was going to be received.

And we're four or five books in.

Five books in, I think they're now.

So, you know, that's what I'm hoping for for Willow well, because there are.

I haven't written any characters with a view to purposefully putting them in there to tell their story further on because I don't like doing that.

That feels as if it would really restrict me because I'd have my head in a future book and I need to be focused on this one.

But looking back at it now, I sort of think, oh, well, they could.

Oh well, yes, I'd like to know what's gonna go on with them and oh, that would be wonderful.

So it's in my head, guys.

So if you, if you like this book, you know, can we start a campaign more Willow with a placard and.

Yeah, I'll crack on.

So yes, it's a very short answer to your question, hopefully.

I hope so.

And I'm sure everyone's going to love it as well.

When you were just saying that about how you're imagining different characters, it sort of leads me on to my next question of the planning, particularly when you're writing a series.

Because I said to you, sometimes when I pick up a series or even like a sequel, I'll be like, oh, who was that again?

When I pick up your books and sort of, particularly with Windbridge, I'd be like, oh, look, there's so and so and there's this One.

And I remember them.

Yeah.

How do you keep track of them all?

Do you have, like, a wall with, like, family trees for each, or are you just really switched on and remember better than I do?

And as you know, we've been back to Windbridge a lot.

I mean, this stack here right behind me, that's the Windbridge stack.

I mean, it's massive.

And I think what's happened is that because I love that community so much and I love all the settings there in Windbridge, it feels to me very much like a real town with Winthorpe hall sort of attached to the.

To the countryside.

So they're just kind of all in my head.

And when I'm planning the next book, I think, right, okay.

Who would I like to.

To come in and have a.

Have an influence on this story?

Sometimes I need to refer back to a book.

You know, I need to check out sometimes how old the dogs were, because, you know, the dogs could be 53.

And that's not gonna.

That's not gonna cut it, you know, so things like that.

So details like that, I need to go back and just remind myself, but generally who it is, where they live, what everybody's name is, what they do in their lives, it's.

It's all up here, miraculously.

I love that.

But that's probably.

I mean, you know, they obviously mean a lot to you.

You love your characters and settings and things, so it's so nice that they are sort of living there.

And I just love that.

I'll go around because I love, like, secondhand places.

And we've got a wonderful, like, vintage emporium in a church in Norwich, and it's fabulous.

And I'll pick something up and I'll say to my daughter, oh, Lizzie Dixon from the Cherry Tree, she would.

Would she not go nuts for that?

She would love that, you know, so they are all kind of.

They're in there, which sounds a little bit cha.

But.

But yeah, they.

They live and breathe for me.

They really do.

And I hope that that comes across on the page.

I think it does.

I think it does.

Yeah.

I say for me, reading them, when I pick them up, I just feel very comforted.

Like it is that sort of stepping back in with old friends or people that, you know, it's lovely.

I think it's incredible.

I didn't realize how many are in this.

Some.

I must have missed some then.

So

let's have a look at my website.

I have recently put on my website page with all the series in series order because obviously publication order is different because we go to different places.

So if anybody wants to look up the series orders, you can easily reference them on the website now.

It's just the quickest thing to do.

Amazing.

I'll put a link to your website in the show notes as well so that people can go in there, have a look.

So as I said, when I pick up your books, I know I'm in for, you know, just really feel good, comforting, relaxing read.

I read that you wrote two books a year, which must be pretty stressful.

On top of that, we live in a world that is quite scary at times.

So for me as a reader, I pick up your book and I know that I'm going to escape it all.

How do you put yourself into that frame of mind?

Do you have any sort of rituals sort of for when you leave, you know, real life behind to sort of step into your characters?

How do you to bring that vibe to yourself?

I have been really mindful about what I take on since COVID actually.

Interesting, you know, having that rolling news

on, having those feeds on your phone.

I stepped away from that a lot.

I'm not ignorant about what's going on in the world.

I check in and I keep up to thing up with things, but I limit the time that I do it for and I don't tend to do it when I'm trying to sit down to, to write.

I'll perhaps have a check in at the end of the day when I've got loads of time before I need to get back into that happy place.

So I really limiting what I take on board is really, really important.

And I think I, you know, I very much live my books.

So when I'm writing a first draft, I definitely try not to have anything else going on.

No events I don't see much of family and friends during.

Then I want it to be me and the book.

And when I finish writing at the end of the day, I never finish at the end of a chapter, I always, if I've finished a chapter, I write the opening paragraph of the next one and then I keep that going in my head and I have like the, that's just a little, you know, this is what I've done at lunchtime.

I have notes all over the place.

So when I come to sit down tomorrow, I was like, ah, that's where we were.

And you're just there, you're in it straight away.

Whereas if I had to stop, start and think what's come next, that wouldn't work for me.

It's all about keeping the.

Keeping the flow going and limiting what I absorb.

I guess that is so fascinating because, you know, I often think, like, when people are writing books, particularly if it's a big book and they're sort of, you know, over halfway through, I know I'd get back and be like, oh, I have no idea what had come before.

So when you said that about not stopping at the end of the chapter, I was like, oh, but that's such a clever idea.

Yeah, that really does help.

And also for the book that I'm writing at the moment, which will come out in autumn 26, I've started to.

I've written the first draft, or I'm writing the first drafts slightly differently.

So this sounds completely counterintuitive, really, but I was.

I was struggling a bit towards the end of the last year.

Last year I was so tired.

It was 20 books in 10 years.

So I decided to write for seven days a week instead of five, which I know you'll go, well, that's nuts, because you're not having any time off.

But what that has actually allowed me to do is even writing on a Saturday and a Sunday has allowed me longer writing time because obviously you're adding in two extra days every week.

And I don't sit down and write for, like seven hours.

I can just come and do as much as I want and walk away and it has just flowed wonderfully.

I'm not saying that's going to work for every book, because I find writing every book is a different experience.

But for this book, writing seven days a week and being mindful of the things that I do when I'm not writing, like my walks to the woods and just, you know, just keeping quiet, Reiki, Pilates, bringing back all those wonderful things, that's really.

That's really helped.

So even though everyone would say that's ridiculous, you wanted to de Stress a bit and you're writing all the.

All, you know, all the hours of the day, it's just better.

That's just worked out really, really well.

So I'll definitely be trying that going forward.

That's so interesting then.

So.

So obviously you have your.

Your walking commute in the morning.

Did you just come back, sit at your laptop and blitz.

Is that what you try to do or.

I used to do that.

I used to be somebody who was very mindful of my clock and I would literally have My day planned out on my phone, hour by hour, that's all gone.

That's.

I chucked that out the window.

After 10 years, it worked for 10 years.

Last year it stopped working and it was kind of.

I felt as if it was the universe saying to me, time to make a change.

Let's have a.

Let's have a meeting.

Let's have a strategy planning meeting and see what's going to change.

So now I get up, I go for my walk, come back, have my breakfast, feed the cat, do, you know, boring domestic stuff, hang the washing out, all that.

All that stuff that still needs to be doing, and then I will sit down to write.

I don't have the phone in the room.

I'm not online while I'm writing.

And I will probably write until lunchtime.

If I finish at lunchtime and I feel like I've done enough, I've got to that point where I can't do any more.

I walk away.

If there's something I still want to get down, I'll come back after lunch.

So it's much more flexible now.

Much more flexible.

So I do have that morning blitz.

I do write at my best in the morning.

But also by the same token, if I'd finished at 11 o' clock and I was happy with what I'd done, I'd walk away at 11 o'.

Clock.

So I'm not.

I'm not as strict.

Yeah, that's interesting.

And in terms of sort of research and sort of planning, because in a lot of your books, there's things like markets and busy, like Christmas markets or things like that.

Do you go.

I kind of imagine you going out, sort of.

People watching a bit.

Do you sort of.

Do you.

That's the best.

I love that.

Do you see how wide my eyes were then?

I do that.

Yeah, I do.

And I kind of find that I don't specifically go out to think.

Right.

I'm going to go out and research this.

You just kind of go out for a day out and you see things and you hear things and you watch things and you absorb it.

And then when you need it, it's there to kind of pull it out again and use it.

So, yeah, I love that.

That's.

That's great.

I can spend as much time looking around, see what everybody else is doing is what I'm supposed to be focused on.

People watching.

When you talk about COVID people watching was one of the things I realized I missed so much when we were in cover because I was like, oh, particularly because Everyone was like, when you did some people that had masks on, I was like, I really miss seeing people's expressions.

I'm always looking at, like, what, you know, what people are wearing.

And I love people, like, wearing quirky stuff and.

And different stuff and.

Oh, yeah, I just.

I love all that.

And quite often now, actually, it's older women that I see have really got their more unique style than following on with what everybody else is wearing.

So, yeah, that's great.

I love that too, because I think that kind of makes me feel a bit brave about what I'm going to wear.

Yeah.

Do you know what?

I've actually noticed that I've seen.

Saw a lady the other day coming out on our high street and she had like a little pink tinge to her gray hair and she was just.

And I was like, she looks amazing.

And so interesting, like, really stood out.

Do you carry like a notebook round then sort of scribble ideas and you're out and about, or do you just remember it all?

I don't have my notebook, but I do have my phone and I write my.

So I write kind of.

I've got the notes app thing on my phone and I write things on there a lot.

And I've.

If I'm on my walk and.

And this comes in with my planning as well.

I'm somebody who, like, if I have an idea, I have to write it down because it's like my brain is so worried about forgetting it.

Thank you, menopause.

My brain is so worried about forgetting it that it won't move on until I have recorded that idea somewhere.

So I might be on my walk and I might stop and write something down if I'm imagining a scene or a conversation.

So I'll write the notes and then I carry on on my walk and the rest of it will start to flow because I know if I've got that initial bit down, it frees up my headspace to.

To carry on with it.

That's so interesting.

See, I have on my phone, when I have notes, sometimes I'll think of something and then I go back to my notes.

I'm like, what was that?

Yeah, that's so random that I'm like, I took the time to take out my phone, open it and write a string of random words and I have no idea.

That's so frustrating because you.

You guarantee that that's the best idea that you've ever had in your life.

Well, all of mine.

All of mine are gone.

But if my phone ever gets lost, somebody's gonna have a very entertaining reading.

Oh, yes.

Yeah, yeah.

And never look at an author's search history online, guys.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, that's what a great question for people.

Oh.

Especially if you're a crime author that, you know, if you were ever in the frame for something and the police came along and looked at you, looked at your search history, you could be really in trouble, couldn't you?

Yeah.

Try explaining that one.

I'll show them your shelf.

That's me.

Those are all my books.

And this is where I reference that.

And this is where I reference that.

Yeah, you need to do all of that.

Almost feels like it's a perfect crime in there.

Like a perfect alibi.

Isn't there?

Someone's gonna write that.

Yeah, Yeah, I was gonna write that.

We'll take the credit for that one.

Yes.

So as we said at the beginning, this is 23rd.

So you're just writing your 23rd.

Yes.

Novel.

So that is, I mean, it's incredible.

What experience do you have now when you're sitting down to write?

Do you feel excited or do you still feel nervous or, you know, do you ever have moments of like, oh, gosh, is this it for me?

How do you feel when you're starting a new project?

All of the above.

Oh, really?

Honest.

I, I, you know, myself and my author chums, we call the Famous Five.

There's five of us in Norfolk, one in Suffolk, and we always talk about this and we say, God, it doesn't get any easier, does it?

Because it doesn't.

And every book feels like a completely fresh start.

If I get jittery, I remind myself I've got my shelves set up behind me and my book stacks here.

And I just remind myself that I have done this a lot before, so no matter how nervous I am, I know I can do it again.

Some books I feel really excited about writing and you breeze through them, some of them will be harder to reach.

No two books are the same, but I do.

I've got this note here, which I have shown before.

This is like, this is like a little post.

Oh, wow.

And it says, draft one is a muddle, a mess, and a total nightmare to write.

This note is a reminder for next when I've forgotten the pains of the labor.

Love that.

That's been there for a lot of.

That's come, you know, through a couple of a house move with me and all sorts of things.

So that's.

And that's really, really True.

And that's the thing with draft one.

You just got to, you've got to get it down.

That's the, that's the thing.

So it's, it is a mixed bag of emotions.

You kind of hope that excitement is outweighing anything else.

I do find that you can have things going on in your life that can impact on your writing.

So that can kind of, that can take it all a toll.

And sometimes it might be harder to come back to what you're doing.

I've got one book.

I don't want to say which one it is, but I had one book when my mother and my stepmother had her cancer diagnosis and we knew there was going to be no treatment available for her.

And so I was writing all through that time and it was.

I can compartmentalize the world news, but when it's actually your life and something so close, that can be really hard to write through.

Yeah.

But on the flip side of that, I've had another time when I was writing one of the books that was a really difficult time in my life.

And the book felt like a total release.

It felt like somewhere really precious to go and just pour everything into the writing.

So it's kind of, you know, it's really up and down, really up and down.

And you can't give a definitive answer because it does vary so much.

And I think every author will say that.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother in law.

Stepmom.

Sorry.

Thank you.

As you were saying that, I was thinking, as I said, your books, they are so comforting.

I'm thinking, I bet you there are many times when somebody has picked up you, one of your books at a time where they've been really struggling with something in their life.

And it's.

I think books can just be such a wonderful way.

And obviously you can't escape everything in your life and you do need to face things, but sometimes you also just need to press pause and just, yeah, have a breather.

And I think your books probably provide a lot of people with that sort of comfort and escape as well.

I'm sure.

I appreciate you saying that.

And I do get a lot of messages as well, really heartfelt messages from people saying this is going on in my life and this is what I'm reading.

Or you.

I wasn't going to do it, but you've given me the courage to, you know, all sorts of things like that.

I had one lady who messaged, which book was it?

I think it was Sleigh Rides and Silver Bells.

Now she had.

She'd lost a partner at Christmas and she hadn't put the decorations up since.

But she said reading that book had inspired her to go into the loft and.

And get the decorations.

And it's, you know, you're writing a story, and I'm having the best time telling this story.

But then you get a message like that.

So I'm not emotion.

Well, I'm a bit emotional, but I've got my throat.

But then you get a message like that, and you.

You know that you're having such a positive impact, and that's just.

That's the best feeling.

It's wonderful.

And I know many authors get messages like that as well, and we really appreciate them.

We really do.

They mean a lot.

And I think on behalf of readers, I'll say that we appreciate what authors are doing to us and that sort of moment that you're giving us and characters and setting and place as well.

I think it's such.

Such an important thing in our lives.

And I think people who don'.

Sort of don't understand that escape that it can give.

I just think you're really missing out.

It's just.

Yeah, yeah.

Because, I mean, I escape into books.

That's, you know, I.

So I love authors as much as readers love me because, you know, I've got a few authors that I read over and over again when I need those.

Those comfort reads.

And when I'm reading, when I'm writing a first draft, I don't tend to read anything new.

Okay.

I don't want to get somebody else's words in my head.

So I'll go back to a book that I have read a few times before.

I cannot tell you how many times I've read Trisha, Ashley's backlist.

Oh, really?

I don't know.

Oh, she's wonderful.

I love her writing.

And I kind of.

There are some passages that I almost know by heart because I know the story so well, but I can still escape into them, whether it's the first time or the 15th time.

Oh, I love that.

I love that.

So if anyone was sitting here listening to this today and they have that dream to write or they're struggling or afraid, given that your dedication is like that, you want people to be brave, what advice would you give to somebody who is sort of hanging on to this dream and kind of stuck, not quite there yet, what would you tell them to do?

I think the most important thing is.

And I didn't catch on to this when I started writing out.

Started out writing but when you start, you are only writing for yourself.

Nobody else needs to see it.

So if it is a muddle and if it is a mess, it doesn't matter because you're not going to show that to anybody else.

You are getting those words down just purely for yourself.

And I think that my worry of not getting him right, getting it right, stopped me writing for such a long time.

And then it was like, that's crazy, because I desperately want to do this.

It's the thing that I've wanted to do since I learned to read as a very young child.

Get on with it.

You know, get on with it and don't worry about what you're writing and whether you've got the setting right or whether you've got the peaks and troughs where you need them, none of that matters.

You have to learn your craft.

So if you don't put pen to paper or fingers to keyboard, you'll never.

You'll never take that first step and you'll never start to learn.

So it is just embracing it purely for yourself.

And you can also treat yourself to a new notebook.

So, I mean, that's never going to be a bad thing.

It's.

I love new stationery.

So do I.

So do I.

But I've got a whole, you know, most of this here is all notebooks because I have a different notebook per novel, which I just use for keeping notes, which is really handy.

But I'm trying to get out of the habit of writing everything in pencil because I'm one of these people that just wants to rub it out.

If I've made a mistake, you know, I need to.

That's my next aim, to loosen up and start writing in pen and everything.

But.

But it doesn't, you know, it doesn't matter whether you're writing in pen or pencil or what you doing, but.

Right, do it.

So with your first drafts, then when you do it, do you just sort of plow through, get it down and does it end up changing quite a lot or do you sort of go back and sort of.

Now that you know what you're doing, do you sort of go back and sort of edit as you go?

I think the thing is, when you write your first book, you haven't got a deal, you haven't got an agent, you haven't got an editor waiting for it, and you can take as long as you like over it.

So you're really free and easy with that.

But obviously now, writing two books a year, we are on a clock.

And I'm really mindful of that.

So I like to have pretty detailed planning.

Quite often I'll put it into my editor and she'll go, that's not what we said in the plan.

Don't worry about that.

Because, you know, the characters come to life and they take us elsewhere.

Just keep reading, it'll be fine.

So I have a lot of planning, so I know where I'm going.

Because I like to write a really tidy first draft.

That's me.

Lots of other people don't.

Lots of other, you know, I know some people who jigsaw, right.

Go all over the place, write different scenes and then put it all together.

But I start and I finish and I keep it pretty focused and pretty tidy.

Sometimes things have to be changed during the editing, of course, but I like to get it as good as I can right from the get go.

So when it goes in, my editor will want tweaks rather than a major rewrite.

Because we are on such a, such a tight schedule.

I just had a thought.

So this is again, a little tangent.

I used to work in magazines years ago and we would always be doing like the Christmas shoots in July.

Yeah.

So we would have like Christmas trees in the office.

So I mean, I love your Christmas books and you just said that they are, they just.

I mean, I love Christmas.

Me too.

I love Christmas.

You do Christmas beautifully.

So do you.

Does it end up that you're writing Christmas in summer or do you.

So the way it works is I have generally written the first draft pretty much in season.

Okay.

Oh, that's.

So for example, if it's a Christmas book, I will start writing that in the new year and the submission for it will be April.

So you can't, you've kind of kept the feeling going.

But to be honest, once I'm in that book, it can be 30 degrees outside.

And if I'm playing wizard in the, you know, inside, then fine.

I've kind of got used to that.

Really.

But again with the summer books, again, it's the same thing.

I'm kind of writing them on the back of the.

On the back of summer and, and that's okay.

So.

Yeah, yeah, you just, you do get used to it.

But it is, it is a bit topsy turvy.

I love that it's working brilliantly and I think it's incredible how, how many books you're writing it and how many wonderful books you're writing as well.

That's really cut.

That's the thing.

You want to keep the, you want to keep the quantity going.

But you always want your next book to be better than the last one.

Yeah, that's the, you know, that's the thing.

And of course, people have their favorites, but in terms of, like, my writing, there will always be something that I want to improve on.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, I guess you're learning all the time.

We're all learning.

Absolutely.

You know, and I still do occasionally.

I'll do.

I'll.

I'll do writing courses, like online things.

Oh, interesting.

Because you will always learn something from somebody else.

And I think if you've got to the point where you don't think you've got anything else to learn, you're in trouble.

Yeah, well, it's keeping it fresh as well then, isn't it?

Yeah.

So people know what they're getting when they pick up your book, but you're bringing something fresh each time as well.

Yeah.

Okay.

So Walking on Sunshine is out 23rd April, which I'm pretty sure is the day this episode is going out.

It is a wonderful read, an absolute joy.

So do make sure you grab a copy.

You will love it.

So we're going to talk about the five books that have shaped your life.

But before we do, just to remind listeners that all of the books that we talk about with will be linked in the show notes.

They'll be nice and easy to find along with Heidi's website as well.

So how did you find choosing your five books, Heidi?

I love doing this.

I really loved it because it kind of gave me the opportunity to sort of think back over my reading career, if you.

If you like.

And it was hard.

There were a couple that didn't make the cut, which was quite difficult.

But the ones that are.

Some of the ones that are in, I have kept them in rather than the other ones I could have picked because they've had an impact on my writing career.

Yeah, so.

So, yeah, it was fun.

I really enjoyed it.

Really enjoyed it.

Oh, good.

Until I told you about picking one at the end.

Don't do that to me.

Let's not get into that one.

Okay, well, let's start then.

Should we start by hearing about your first book choice?

I know you've got them all there

as well, so would you like me to talk about them in any particular order?

Or else they come off the stack,

Whichever order you want to go with.

All right, so surprise me.

Oh, we need to start with Winnie the Pooh.

And I've made a note of how old I was.

I was.

I was seven.

And I mean, it's.

The fact that the dust jacket is still in such good condition is amazing, really, because this has been such a much loved book.

And actually when you were asking me to pick my favorites, I started.

Started reading it and I got quite, you know, quite a way through it before I.

Right, I need to pick another book now.

So.

Yeah, so Winnie the Pooh, I think this was probably the.

You know when it's like you're trying to remember and you think, have I made that up or is that true?

So this could be.

This could be either or.

But I kind of feel like this was the first big book that I read independently and I just.

I loved it so much.

And I think when you go back and read it as an adult, you get so much more out of it because you look at the gang and you see all these different personality types coming together as a gang.

And obviously I didn't pick up on that as a child.

I just thought they were all off on an adventure.

So, yeah, the first one is Winnie the Pooh.

I have such a love for Piglet.

And in the opening of this book, A.A. milne talks about Piglet being.

He says Piglet is so small that he slips into a pocket where.

It's very comforting to feel when you're not quite sure whether twice seven is 12 or 22.

And there's a bit in here about.

So he says, I had written as far as this when Piglet has looked up and said in his squeaky voice, what about me, my dear Piglet?

I said, the whole book is about you.

So, yeah, those characters come into life even before the stories are being written.

So that is a firm favorite of mine.

That is amazing.

Do you know it's never been picked on this show before, really?

Oh, well, I'm delighted to be the first.

I hope I won't be the last because it's glorious.

It is.

It's lovely.

And it's all.

That's a wisdom.

Because when you were saying about reading when you're older, there's like.

I mean, there are books, aren't they?

The Wisdom of Winnie the Pooh and things like.

So.

So when you were reading, what.

What age did you say you were?

Sorry, Heidi?

Seven.

I was seven when I was given the book.

So, yeah, I was kind of.

I kind of feel like that was my first independent.

Almost obviously I'd read shorter books before that, but I feel like this was like my first book.

Book, if you like.

And do you think it might have been the book that sort of sowed the seed for you that you would like to do that definitely.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, without a doubt.

It was.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was.

I'm sure.

That's amazing, isn't it?

I love that.

I have fun with that one.

Okay, let's move on to book number two then.

I think I'm gonna go.

I'm gonna go kind of like chronologically.

Chronologically with my reading experience.

So.

Okay.

Now what would have been.

There are two that are fairly close together in terms of when I read them.

So I'm gonna go first with a non fiction book.

Okay.

Which is just adorable.

And it is called in and out of the Garden by Sarah Midder.

I've written some notes about this because I want to describe it in the best way possible.

So it was published in the early 80s and the way I came across it was my year at school was the first year to do GCSEs.

Okay.

Oh, gosh.

So we'd gone from exams to doing all that coursework.

And the art and sewing teacher, Mrs. Davey, she bought in this book for us to reference to look for project ideas for the sewing projects that we were going to do.

So that is how I came across the book.

And if you look when I got my own copy, I don't know if you're going to be able to see this, but there were a couple of holes in the spine where I got it caught in my ring binder at school.

And I was gutted because I was so excited to have my own copy of this.

But okay, let me tell you a bit about it.

So it is filled with exquisite watercolors and the author's reflections on gardens, folklore, recipes and sayings.

And they're really tiny.

I'll see if I can get to hold it up so you can see like what the pages are like inside.

Oh, wow, that's beautiful.

So that is a seed packet and all the seeds are tumbling out and.

And it shows you what will grow.

And the.

The container is made up with all words and it's just.

Oh, I love it.

It's just adorable.

And I think all of us think enough.

I hope you can go.

I hope you can see that.

But I just adored it.

And when I picked this book, I kind of had a look around the house and around the garden and I could see how many little areas had kind of been put together, like some of my pots and things in the garden.

And I know that the seeds were sown from when I read this book.

So I can't tell you how much I adore this.

It's an absolute favorite, so that's amazing.

Of the Garden by Sarah Midden.

I did find.

Look for it online.

I don't know if it's out of print at the moment.

I couldn't find it.

I looked for it.

Normally I do links to buy, but I couldn't find that.

Probably if you're lucky, you'll find it in a charity shop, maybe.

Or do you know what?

I did find a copy in a charity shop and it didn't have a dust cover and I didn't buy it because I was thinking, oh, I've already.

I've already got a copy.

I'm going to leave that for somebody else.

And then when I got home, I was so cross because I thought I could have bought it and given it to somebody else because there are probably a few people who I would have thought of, but.

But it stayed there.

So if I.

If I ever see it in a charity shop again, I'm gonna.

I'm gonna grab it.

I might even put it up or maybe put it up as a giveaway or something to, you know, listen to this and are interested in it because it's beautiful.

I think it's something my sister would love, actually looking at the pictures of that as well.

Every page is just perfection.

It's beautiful.

Okay.

Do you know what I'm noticing?

I think you can tell a lot.

My daughter and I have this conversation all the time.

So I am.

My books get read really red.

So my books that I've got.

I've got some from when I was a child.

The spines all sort of crumbling.

Yeah, yeah.

You.

You really look after your books, don't you?

Like, even your Winnie the Pooh is, like, perfect.

I know.

I think if I've got a book with a dust cover on, I will take it off when I'm reading it or referencing from it and then I will put the.

The COVID back on.

The next one is in a bit of a state, so that kind of might.

Okay, so you ruined my theory.

That's fine.

Don't worry.

So next book?

Yeah, next book is A Room With a View by Ian.

Oh, that's a lovely cover.

So, yeah, so this was bought as the film was kind of coming out.

And you can see kind of from the spine that is.

It is pretty worn.

And we've got some.

We've got some creases and some marks on the back.

But.

So this book.

When was this one published?

Would this have been about 87?

Did the film come out 87.

Oh, 88.

So it's.

This is an 88.

But this was kind of the first classic that I read outside of the school syllabus.

Okay.

And I'm not gonna lie, I think I was drawn to it because of the film.

Because it was just so glorious, that film.

And again, it was all about the setting for me.

You know, I fell in love with Florence.

I fell in love with where Windy Corner was at.

Just beautiful.

So, yeah.

So this was my first classic.

And it began my love affair with E.M. forster to such an extent that I did my university dissertation on his novels.

Wow.

So, yeah.

Loved, loved, love this.

And, And I have read it many, many times.

I have.

So I've got my paperback copy, but I've also got a digital download on my Kindle.

Oh.

So I can access it whenever, whenever I want to.

So I just adore it.

And actually a bit like Winnie the Pooh, the group of characters in here, you know, different classes, different lifestyles.

That's.

That's another interesting kind of similarity between the books.

I think so.

Yeah.

I just love it.

Heidi.

I've never read it.

Oh, you must, you must, you must.

It's just wonderful.

I.

Have you seen the film?

I do know, as you're saying, I always come back on that.

Have I seen that?

I'm sure I have.

Yeah.

But I'm not totally convinced now.

It's wonderful.

And the.

The casting in it is you've got Denholm Elliott in there, you've got Judi Dench, you've got Maggie Smith.

That's just.

Just three.

It's just.

It's wonderful.

You must watch.

You must.

I will do.

This book has been picked by Lucy Steeds, who wrote the Artist.

Yeah.

And Sarah Winman.

That's really interesting.

Yeah.

And she said the same.

She's like, you know, Florence and beautiful.

And it's so.

It's interesting as well because, of course, actually not to go back to referencing Walking on Sunshine, but I will.

But Lucy Honeychurch follows her heart in this book.

You know, she is supposed to be engaged to somebody else and he is just not the personality for her.

But Mr. George Emerson here, free thinking George Emerson, he is much more at her screen.

I'm mine.

I need to.

I always have this thing with, like, classics and they just sort of intimidate me.

I'm just working my way through Jane Eyre at the moment, which I started reading at Christmas and sort of put it to one side and I'm enjoying it so much more as an adult than I did.

Yeah.

When I was a child.

So it's one of my goals to sort of try and sort of, you know, pick up books that I feel a little bit intimidated by.

That's interesting, because I think, actually, it can be really tough at school when you're bombarded with classics.

It can kind of go one of two ways, really.

It can either instill a love or it can put you off for a very long time.

But if it has put you off and like you were saying, I hope it does, people do feel encouraged to come back.

Yeah.

My twins at the moment, I've got twins.

They're 13.

So they're doing Lord of the Flies.

I mean, I've got one that's a reader and one that's not.

Yeah.

And she is just.

There's the new BBC show of it as well.

She's desperate to watch it.

But he's just like.

I can see what he feels.

He feels like he's been dragged through the story, and I'm like, oh, I just wish he could just sort of read it in his own way and not feel like you're looking for what you're supposed to be picking out.

Yeah.

And enjoy it.

If there was that, we could need that more time, don't we?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the thing, because you just.

You have to follow the formula when you're at school.

And, you know, it's so much.

It's a shame.

Yeah.

But don't get me talking about education.

Don't.

Don't even get me on it for another day.

Okay, where are we?

We're number.

That was number three.

So we're gonna do number four.

Okay.

Number four is really, really scrappy and messy.

And I can't decide which one of these I read first, but I am gonna go with Joanna Trollope, A Village Affair.

This is extremely well read because I have had this since new.

Oh, gosh.

I just.

It's the writing as much as the story.

And I feel like Joanna Trollope's A Village Affair and the Rector's Wife.

I really struggle to pick between which two that I was going to talk about today.

But the Village Affair has just got some of my favorite ever descriptions in it.

And it is about the writing and the scene setting as much as it is about the wonderful story and the things that have just stuck with me.

Like, she describes a baby as having shrimp like fingers when they reach out to pick up somebody's beads.

And there's another one.

I think this one was in director's wife, actually, she's talking about Flora, the young girl.

Pockets grinding with pebbles.

Oh, I love that.

I completely relate to that because my walking coat.

I took my daughter to the bus stop earlier, and I was like, trying to find my house key when I came back.

And I'm like, acorn, shell, pebble, you know, So I get that.

That's what, you know, I'm one of those people that's always got pocket full of treasures from the woods.

So.

Joanna Trollope's descriptions in these books are just glorious.

And I'm absolutely certain that her writing in these has influenced mine.

Oh, wow.

Certain of it because it's all about the setting.

It's all about the descriptions, you know, and it's just a wonderful love story.

And it's about Alice, main character Alice Jordan, sort of growing up, even though she's married and she's got three children.

This is her book about growing up and finding herself.

And it's just glorious.

Love it.

I haven't read her either.

There you go.

There's another one for your list.

I'm like, I'm gonna finish this and be like, right, sit down, do my homework now.

Yeah, it's.

It's wonderful and it's.

Yeah.

Love it, love it, love it, love it.

So that's number four.

Love that.

I also, I have to say, and particularly when it's conquer season.

Yeah.

I can't.

I can't resist a conquer.

No, no, no, no.

And I keep them until they're really wizened.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love.

I just.

It's that color.

It's the most incredible.

Yeah.

It's like new school shoes.

And the patination.

Yeah.

And there's the feel of them in your pockets when they're glossy and.

And the sound of them, actually, when you've got a few and that.

Yeah.

And there's also a nice smell.

Do you know, I've just.

I can't think of her name.

I feel like, oh, I have to find it afterwards.

There's a book that you will love, but I'll find it.

Hang on.

And I'll share it on the show.

Notes for anyone else.

So, final book.

And that is.

I haven't saved the book to this book until last, as it being the best book because I adore all of these equally Darling buns of May.

H E Bates.

Oh, look at the COVID Beryl Cook, who's an artist.

I love a Beryl Cook covered cover.

It just sums up up the family, doesn't it?

And this is what I love about the entire series, it's just.

I don't know, it's that sense of family, it's that sense of all that food, the community, obviously, the setting, what could be.

And I think actually the Darling Birds of May inspired what I was thinking about when I created not so much Wimbridge itself, but Skylark Farm.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

I was thinking about my experiences of growing up.

My mum's mum and dad had.

They lived in a former council house and it was a 19.

Well, I don't know when it was probably a 40s council house and it had acres at the back and my granddad, he kept it as a.

As a pop Larkin.

And so, you know, I'm thinking about family when I read this book.

And it's the warmth and the coziness and I've got so many things that featured in the.

The television series because I just trolled the charity shops looking for the biscuit tins and looking for the flower measurers and, you know, I've got them all downstairs and they're all in daily use.

And I just.

I adore this book.

I don't know if I've written anything more than what I'm gushing about, really.

No, I just said in terms of my books, I endeavor to bring this warmth into my writing.

Just, you know, I just.

Just love it.

Well, you definitely bring warmth into your writing, for sure.

You've seen the influences now.

And I think if you kind of look at that stack, that's what really interested me.

If I look at that stack, I can see how it features in my life as well as in my work.

And that's.

That's an incredible endorsement to books, isn't it?

It really is.

Really?

Really.

I had the best time.

I had the best time.

I'm so glad.

Yeah.

So I never read the Darling Buds Made, but I remember the series and I loved her.

I absolutely love.

Is it quite true to the books or not?

So.

Yeah, it is.

Really, really is.

Yeah, very much so.

I used to love that series.

Eat it.

You know, taking the table out under the trees, putting the tablecloth on to eat out there and being out there.

Oh, I love it.

Love, love.

Yeah, I love it.

Oh, Heidi.

Yeah.

So about that one book, isn't that.

It's mean.

It's mean.

I mean, this is just complete make believe.

Okay.

You were only allowed to read one because obviously you've revisited all of these books, which I think makes it harder if you could only read one of them again.

Okay.

So I'm gonna.

I'm kind of gonna cheat a little bit.

Oh, okay.

Come on.

Really?

But I am gonna say Winnie the Pooh because it was the book that instilled the love of reading that led me on to all the others.

Okay.

And that kind of feels like.

I don't feel so bad for the others picking this book.

So I'm gonna say.

I'm gonna say Winnie the Pooh.

Oh, great choice.

No.

And I've even got.

I've got.

I didn't realize these were in here.

So these would have been postcards picked up when I was in Wells next to the sea with my nana and granddad when I was really, really small.

Beautiful.

It's the illustrations as well.

Aren't they just being always loved.

Shepherd just love them.

And pulled and pulled at his boots until he got it on.

Is that one.

And Eeyore was nudged to the front and the others crowded behind him.

Make Eeyore feel special.

Do you know Eeyore, though?

I just can't.

I.

He just makes me so sad.

I'm like, somebody make you happy?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's what I think is what I was.

I was thinking mostly about his character when I went back and looked at it, because I'm like, he was depressed.

Yeah.

However, he is still included in the gang, and I think that was such an important message.

Yeah.

So, yeah, even though he is sad and gloomy, he's there with his.

He's still got his mate, and I love that.

And then, you know, he's not isolated.

He's got his friends.

That's what we all need, our little place and our little tribes.

Yes, we do.

We really, really do.

Tribe is very important.

Yeah, I agree.

What a wonderful time I've had.

Thank you so much.

I have had the best time.

Thank you so much, Heidi.

It's been wonderful to chat to you.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

I love, loved that conversation with Heidi.

So while this episode is about an hour, you should probably know that Heidi and I actually chatted for probably about two hours as we nattered before and after recording, we got on like a house on fire.

And I just loved spending time with her.

I hope that you've enjoyed it too.

Walking on Sunshine, Heidi's 22nd novel, is out today, and it is a really joyful read, a lovely one to just dive into and forget about all the stresses of the world.

As always, all of the books that we've talked about are linked in the show notes with links to buy.

So do go and check those out.

And I will be back on Thursday chatting to another author and I hope that you will join me for that episode too.

I have a huge favour to ask if you are enjoying the show, if you could take the time to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcast costs.

It makes such a big difference to the show and I would be so grateful.

Thanks for listening and I'll see you next week.