In this episode I am joined by Fiona Graham from the Institute for Family Business as we discuss Family Business Week, some interesting research that will shortly be published and we debunk the myth that family businesses are old fashioned, “Mom and Pop Shops”.

We also explore the contribution that family businesses make to the UK and global economies and discuss the topics that have been front of mind for family businesses on the recent IFB Tour!

Useful Links

You can find out more about the IFB and their work by heading over to their homepage

You can follow Fiona on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/FionaVGraham and email her, Fiona.Graham@ifb.org.uk. Her Linked In profile is https://www.linkedin.com/in/fiona-graham-6b2a802a/

You can find out more about Family Business Week by heading over to https://www.familybusinessweek.co.uk/ and make sure you get involved by sharing your stories and celebrating your success.

Support the Show

The podcast is entirely self-funded by me. I am not looking for sympathy as it is something that I love to do and I have a passion for providing great content for family businesses across the world. Some listeners have asked for ways in which they can support the show, be that through reviews, sharing with friends or a donation. As such I have set up a page that outlines all the ways that you can support what I am doing.

www.fambizpodcast.com/support

Work With Russ

If what I have spoken about in the show resonates and you want to discuss how I can help you and your family business drop me an email: russ@familybusinesspartnership.com or head over to www.familybusinesspartnership.com

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Russ Haworth: 00:01:00

of the Family Business Podcast.

Russ Haworth: 00:01:02

I am joined on this episode of the show by Fiona Graham.

Russ Haworth: 00:01:07

Now, regular listeners to the show will have heard Fiona in the past, but

Russ Haworth: 00:01:12

Fiona firstly, welcome to the show.

Fiona Graham: 00:01:14

Hi.

Fiona Graham: 00:01:14

Thank you.

Fiona Graham: 00:01:15

Thank you for having me back.

Russ Haworth: 00:01:16

No problem at all.

Russ Haworth: 00:01:18

And for those that may not have come across our previous conversations, can

Russ Haworth: 00:01:22

you just give us a bit of an introduction as to who you are and what you.

Fiona Graham: 00:01:28

I can indeed.

Fiona Graham: 00:01:29

So I'm Fiona Graham.

Fiona Graham: 00:01:30

I am the Director of External Affairs and Policy at the Institute

Fiona Graham: 00:01:34

for Family Business or the ifb.

Fiona Graham: 00:01:36

So the IFB is, um, a growing network for family businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:01:40

Um, we represent family firms.

Fiona Graham: 00:01:41

We were founded about 20 years ago, um, by a group of family business owners

Fiona Graham: 00:01:46

who wanted somewhere to get together to support each other with the common

Fiona Graham: 00:01:51

challenges that come, that go along with running a family business, the

Fiona Graham: 00:01:53

kinds of things that you talk about on your podcast every week, succession,

Fiona Graham: 00:01:57

engaging your next generation family, communication, that kind of thing.

Fiona Graham: 00:02:01

Um, and we have grown and expanded from there.

Fiona Graham: 00:02:04

We firmly believe that family businesses offer a model of responsible and

Fiona Graham: 00:02:08

sustainable business that needs to be acknowledged and supported and championed.

Fiona Graham: 00:02:13

And so that's what we are doing in our work with our network.

Fiona Graham: 00:02:18

We're trying to create a better and more prosperous and sustainable

Fiona Graham: 00:02:21

future for family businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:02:23

My role within that is I am as director of External Affairs and policy.

Fiona Graham: 00:02:28

I am the person engaging with policy makers, um, and politicians.

Fiona Graham: 00:02:32

And going out and kind of banging the drum for family firms with those

Fiona Graham: 00:02:35

people, making sure that their unique needs and perspectives are understood

Fiona Graham: 00:02:40

by politicians when they're making policy and decisions on tax, which

Fiona Graham: 00:02:43

you may come onto that kind of thing.

Russ Haworth: 00:02:46

Fantastic.

Russ Haworth: 00:02:47

And given, um, so we are recording this during Family Business Week, so we'll come

Russ Haworth: 00:02:52

on to talk a little bit more about, um, what Family Business Week is in a second.

Russ Haworth: 00:02:58

We're recording this on the Monday and the episode's gonna

Russ Haworth: 00:03:01

be released on the Wednesday.

Russ Haworth: 00:03:02

And I think part of the reason behind that was there was certain things happening

Russ Haworth: 00:03:05

in the run-up to, um, our conversation.

Russ Haworth: 00:03:08

And let's be honest, neither of us really knew whether

Russ Haworth: 00:03:10

we'd be called up to have our.

Russ Haworth: 00:03:13

Um, pm uh, for this week.

Russ Haworth: 00:03:15

So I, I think we needed to, to make sure we were recording it in very

Russ Haworth: 00:03:18

good time and just given some of the instability, I think we could summarize

Russ Haworth: 00:03:25

it as h how's that impacted your role?

Russ Haworth: 00:03:28

Because you are dealing with policy makers and yet they seem to

Russ Haworth: 00:03:31

change quite often at the moment.

Fiona Graham: 00:03:36

I'm not going to pretend it has been the easiest time

Fiona Graham: 00:03:39

for somebody in a role like mine.

Fiona Graham: 00:03:41

Um, but I think the bigger concern is the impact that it has on the businesses

Fiona Graham: 00:03:47

and the instability, the kind of impact the instability has on confidence, and

Fiona Graham: 00:03:52

then plans that people are waiting for.

Fiona Graham: 00:03:55

You know, if the government says they're gonna work on something

Fiona Graham: 00:03:57

that's very important for sector, for example, and then there's a leadership

Fiona Graham: 00:04:01

election or a change of Prime Minister without a leadership election.

Fiona Graham: 00:04:05

Um, that then kind of hugely disrupts that work within the, within the

Fiona Graham: 00:04:09

government, within the civil service, because obviously there's a delay then.

Fiona Graham: 00:04:12

So personally, it has been, let's say, an interesting time, uh, as the proverb

Fiona Graham: 00:04:17

goes, but, um, more worrying than that is kind of the impact that it's had

Fiona Graham: 00:04:21

on businesses and their confidence.

Russ Haworth: 00:04:23

Yeah, and again, we'll come back to some of the more recent,

Russ Haworth: 00:04:27

um, events and announcements and the autumn statement and things like that.

Russ Haworth: 00:04:31

But as I mentioned, we're recording this during Family Business Week to be

Russ Haworth: 00:04:36

released during Family Business Week.

Russ Haworth: 00:04:38

Um, it's now your second year of, um, hosting Family Business Week.

Russ Haworth: 00:04:43

But can you tell us again a little bit more about the aims for the week and.

Russ Haworth: 00:04:48

Importantly how the audience can get involved

Fiona Graham: 00:04:50

So, as you say, this is our second family business week.

Fiona Graham: 00:04:53

The first one last year.

Fiona Graham: 00:04:55

We really wanted to, after two very difficult years for business, really

Fiona Graham: 00:04:59

wanted an opportunity to celebrate and champion all the amazing work that

Fiona Graham: 00:05:03

family businesses had been doing during the pandemic, going above and beyond,

Fiona Graham: 00:05:07

but actually also then to demonstrate that that is kind of the way that

Fiona Graham: 00:05:10

family businesses operate all the time.

Fiona Graham: 00:05:12

Yes.

Fiona Graham: 00:05:13

You know, some people really set things up during the pandemic,

Fiona Graham: 00:05:15

whether that's supporting a food bank or, you know, pivoting their

Fiona Graham: 00:05:19

business to produce hand sanitizer or PPE or whatever it might have been.

Fiona Graham: 00:05:23

But actually family businesses are always going that extra mile,

Fiona Graham: 00:05:26

um, whether that's in their local community or supporting charities

Fiona Graham: 00:05:30

or supporting their own employees.

Fiona Graham: 00:05:32

So we wanted to launch our new business week to celebrate the sector, um, because.

Fiona Graham: 00:05:38

Family businesses are doing amazing work, but they're busy doing that work

Fiona Graham: 00:05:42

and they don't always shout about it.

Fiona Graham: 00:05:44

And we felt it was really important for them to get the recognition that

Fiona Graham: 00:05:46

they deserved and also to demonstrate to politicians and policy makers and

Fiona Graham: 00:05:52

kind of other business groups and kind of the broader business community

Fiona Graham: 00:05:57

and then also the general public, like actually family business is an

Fiona Graham: 00:06:01

incredible model when you are looking.

Fiona Graham: 00:06:05

Championing responsible businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:06:06

Let's look at what family businesses are doing.

Fiona Graham: 00:06:08

What should other types of businesses be emulating?

Fiona Graham: 00:06:11

So the first year was really successful.

Fiona Graham: 00:06:14

The then Chancellor Act was tweeting about it.

Fiona Graham: 00:06:17

Um, we had lots of great support from across kind of the political spectrum,

Fiona Graham: 00:06:21

but also from different sectors and lots of businesses got involved.

Fiona Graham: 00:06:25

So the first year was great, and then this.

Fiona Graham: 00:06:28

What we are really looking at is the theme of celebrating our place in the world.

Fiona Graham: 00:06:32

So we are looking at the kind of ways that family businesses go above and

Fiona Graham: 00:06:37

beyond to support their local communities.

Fiona Graham: 00:06:39

So whether that is through how they are supporting a local sports team,

Fiona Graham: 00:06:44

or what they're doing in the natural environment, or all sorts of ways that

Fiona Graham: 00:06:48

they are doing that and celebrating.

Fiona Graham: 00:06:51

Specific stories, but also showing how the sector as a whole continues

Fiona Graham: 00:06:55

to do this and encouraging other businesses to do, uh, to get involved

Fiona Graham: 00:06:59

and to share their stories as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:07:03

We're supported again this year by Nawe and that's really great to have their

Fiona Graham: 00:07:06

support for this campaign as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:07:09

Um, in the run up to our, the week itself, which is this week, we have

Fiona Graham: 00:07:14

been going around the country, um, meeting businesses, holding events

Fiona Graham: 00:07:18

in different parts of the uk.

Fiona Graham: 00:07:19

Talking about kind of what makes those.

Fiona Graham: 00:07:21

Businesses in that area special and also some of the

Fiona Graham: 00:07:24

challenges that they're facing.

Fiona Graham: 00:07:26

And Russ, you very kindly joined us in Bristol for that as well, um, which

Fiona Graham: 00:07:29

was a great event and a great evening.

Fiona Graham: 00:07:32

Um, we then during the week, tomorrow night, so.

Fiona Graham: 00:07:37

Tuesday, yesterday for people listening.

Fiona Graham: 00:07:40

Um, we have a reception in Westminster where we have the business small

Fiona Graham: 00:07:45

business minister and shadow small business minister coming along to

Fiona Graham: 00:07:48

share their thoughts about the sector and bringing together kind of a large

Fiona Graham: 00:07:51

group of businesses and advisors and, you know, people who care about

Fiona Graham: 00:07:56

support family businesses, which is really important and special and it's.

Fiona Graham: 00:08:00

A new thing this year for the second year, and then throughout the week

Fiona Graham: 00:08:04

we are sharing case studies online of what businesses are doing.

Fiona Graham: 00:08:08

We are encouraging people to make as much noise on social media as possible.

Fiona Graham: 00:08:12

We are encouraging mps to visit their family businesses in their

Fiona Graham: 00:08:15

constituency and get to know them because I think that's a really

Fiona Graham: 00:08:19

important part of the week as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:08:21

And then we're kind of talking to the media and sharing some

Fiona Graham: 00:08:23

stories through that as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:08:25

Um, if people who are listening.

Fiona Graham: 00:08:27

Haven't heard of family business week before, which I'm sure isn't the case.

Fiona Graham: 00:08:31

But if that is and they still want to get involved, I'd suggest that people

Fiona Graham: 00:08:34

look at getting involved on Friday, which is hashtag Family Business Friday,

Fiona Graham: 00:08:39

where we are really encouraging as many people to share stories as possible

Fiona Graham: 00:08:43

and get involved on social media.

Fiona Graham: 00:08:45

And, um, I think that, you know, it's gonna be kind of this culmination of

Fiona Graham: 00:08:48

the week where there's gonna be a lot of activity, so it's very exciting.

Fiona Graham: 00:08:52

Obviously it's kind of Monday lunchtime now, so we're only, we're only a few

Fiona Graham: 00:08:56

hours into the week, but already the kind of uptake on social media's been

Fiona Graham: 00:08:59

incredible and we're so, we're so pleased to see so many people getting involved

Fiona Graham: 00:09:04

and supporting it and it, I think it just shows that the message really

Fiona Graham: 00:09:07

resonates and that actually there's a huge amount of love out there for family

Fiona Graham: 00:09:11

businesses that it's just nice to kind of hear people talking about publicly.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:15

Absolutely.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:16

And I think in, given the backdrop of what's happening at the moment

Russ Haworth: 00:09:21

in it is there is a little bit of, um, Perhaps doom and gloom around.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:26

I think it's really important to focus on all of these positive elements

Russ Haworth: 00:09:30

and the positive contributions that family businesses are having, not

Russ Haworth: 00:09:34

just in, I know Family Business Week is, is the uk but across the world

Russ Haworth: 00:09:38

in terms of the, the positive impact that family businesses can have.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:42

And I think you touched on the point.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:44

Earlier around the fact that because family businesses are

Russ Haworth: 00:09:47

busy doing this stuff, it doesn't necessarily get celebrated as

Russ Haworth: 00:09:51

publicly as perhaps it could do.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:54

And Family Business Week for me is a really important opportunity for

Russ Haworth: 00:09:57

everybody to do as much as they can to try and celebrate the family

Russ Haworth: 00:10:01

business sector because it is.

Russ Haworth: 00:10:03

It's a huge sector, and b, it's a hugely positive sector that

Russ Haworth: 00:10:07

can have a hugely positive impact on, um, society as a whole.

Russ Haworth: 00:10:11

So I would encourage everybody listening to get involved.

Russ Haworth: 00:10:15

If you're listening to this on, say, Wednesday when the, the podcast episode

Russ Haworth: 00:10:19

is released, you've got a couple of days until Family Business Friday to start

Russ Haworth: 00:10:22

planning how you're going to get involved on the social media side of things.

Russ Haworth: 00:10:26

So I would, uh, encourage, um, that

Fiona Graham: 00:10:29

The other thing I was gonna say is, um, the.

Fiona Graham: 00:10:31

A lot of the businesses that, you know, we talk to who are doing these exceptional

Fiona Graham: 00:10:35

things kind of have said, oh, but it's just the way, it's just something we've

Fiona Graham: 00:10:38

always done and it, it's actually really important for family businesses to

Fiona Graham: 00:10:42

recognize how exceptional of the stuff that they're doing is, yes, you've always

Fiona Graham: 00:10:46

done it, but a lot of people out there aren't doing these kinds of things.

Fiona Graham: 00:10:50

And actually there's.

Fiona Graham: 00:10:51

You know, sharing your story might actually encourage

Fiona Graham: 00:10:53

other people to do it as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:10:55

So it's not just about kind of getting a pat on the back,

Fiona Graham: 00:10:58

but that's very well deserved.

Fiona Graham: 00:11:00

You definitely should get that, but it's also how you can inspire other

Fiona Graham: 00:11:04

businesses to do more and to go further I think is really important because a

Fiona Graham: 00:11:08

lot of what these businesses are doing is completely achievable for other

Fiona Graham: 00:11:12

businesses as well if they just put their mind to it and decided to do it.

Fiona Graham: 00:11:17

So hopefully we can encourage some kind of action in that way as.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:21

Yeah, completely agree.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:22

Um, and are there any particular hashtags that, um, people should be filling?

Russ Haworth: 00:11:26

So you got hashtag Family Business Friday, is it hashtag Family Business Friday.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:31

Family Bids Friday.

Fiona Graham: 00:11:33

Family Bi Friday and hashtag Family Biz Week.

Fiona Graham: 00:11:36

Um, and you can follow it on social.

Fiona Graham: 00:11:39

It's at Family Biz Week on Twitter.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:43

Excellent, and we will link all of those up in the useful

Russ Haworth: 00:11:46

links section of the show notes.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:49

Um, you mentioned your UK tour, uh, with you and, uh, your IP colleagues.

Fiona Graham: 00:11:57

That

Russ Haworth: 00:11:57

I'm, I'm picturing a tour bus and you're heading around

Fiona Graham: 00:12:01

there were speakers, light shows.

Russ Haworth: 00:12:05

Um, we, we had a very enjoyable, um, evening in Bristol hearing

Russ Haworth: 00:12:09

from family businesses and obviously those that, um, serve family businesses.

Russ Haworth: 00:12:15

Um, I got the opportunity to, to sit in on and listen to, to that event, but

Russ Haworth: 00:12:19

for those that didn't, what were sort of come up, some of the challenges,

Russ Haworth: 00:12:24

some of the, um, opportunities that family businesses were speaking about,

Fiona Graham: 00:12:29

no one's gonna pretend that it's an easy time for business.

Fiona Graham: 00:12:32

You know, coming out of two years of lockdowns and pandemic where they have

Fiona Graham: 00:12:38

been kind of, it's been exhausting for the individuals involved in, in pivoting

Fiona Graham: 00:12:43

these businesses and keeping them going.

Fiona Graham: 00:12:45

But there's also been a huge amount of disruption that

Fiona Graham: 00:12:47

people have had to adapt to.

Fiona Graham: 00:12:50

And then coming out of that into record inflation.

Fiona Graham: 00:12:53

Record increases in energy prices, recession.

Fiona Graham: 00:12:58

Um, you know, really, really low levels of consumer confidence.

Fiona Graham: 00:13:02

It is an incredibly challenging time.

Fiona Graham: 00:13:04

And all of those things were things that came up in the discussion and

Fiona Graham: 00:13:07

there was a lot of kind of, People could point to a lot of difficulties

Fiona Graham: 00:13:11

within every sector, basically.

Fiona Graham: 00:13:13

You know, some people were having issues with energy costs regard almost regardless

Fiona Graham: 00:13:19

of the sector, um, and supply chain issues and all these sorts of things.

Fiona Graham: 00:13:24

So it was, we, we did hear a lot of challenges.

Fiona Graham: 00:13:27

Definitely.

Fiona Graham: 00:13:29

I think what was also very interesting is how positive people were about

Fiona Graham: 00:13:34

the long term outlook for the sector and for family businesses general.

Fiona Graham: 00:13:39

That people really pointed to the resilience of the businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:13:43

Those older businesses could say, you know, we have been

Fiona Graham: 00:13:46

through challenging times before.

Fiona Graham: 00:13:48

We have managed to survive, and we are confident that we will have a difficult.

Fiona Graham: 00:13:52

Year two, but we will get out the other side.

Fiona Graham: 00:13:56

And actually a lot of the businesses in the room didn't want to talk about

Fiona Graham: 00:14:00

the difficult stuff, the, the short term difficulties that they're seeing.

Fiona Graham: 00:14:04

Many of them wanted to talk about the longer term resilience and talk

Fiona Graham: 00:14:08

about their optimism for the future, for the model, um, and the strengths

Fiona Graham: 00:14:12

that they saw within the model that.

Fiona Graham: 00:14:14

Put them in a good place.

Fiona Graham: 00:14:16

So, um, for example, their kind of long term outlook, their resilience,

Fiona Graham: 00:14:22

um, the fact that they don't, don't have high levels of debt.

Fiona Graham: 00:14:25

Um, the fact they have very strong personal connections with customers

Fiona Graham: 00:14:29

and suppliers and that can make difficult conversations, you know,

Fiona Graham: 00:14:31

sometimes smoother and there's a high level of trust amongst them.

Fiona Graham: 00:14:36

So that was seen as a real kind of advantage.

Fiona Graham: 00:14:39

One of the issues that did really come up in the conversations was skills and

Fiona Graham: 00:14:43

people, and just the availability of the people and skills and kind of also

Fiona Graham: 00:14:48

the challenges around the workforce.

Fiona Graham: 00:14:50

Still settling into the post pandemic world.

Fiona Graham: 00:14:55

We have not, I don't think really.

Fiona Graham: 00:14:58

Established what the future way of working looks like.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:00

Some businesses are kind of trying to be fully back in the office.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:03

Others are fully still away from the others.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:05

Others are trying hybrid working.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:07

Some people are struggling to kind of get people into a rhythm and a routine.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:12

Um, and there are skill shortages across the country in all sorts of sectors.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:16

But one of.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:17

Again, one of the interesting things was how people were talking

Fiona Graham: 00:15:21

about, well actually, you know, we are really upskilling our people.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:24

We are offering really good kind of apprenticeships, whatever

Fiona Graham: 00:15:27

it might be to attract people.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:30

And that many people felt that actually being a family

Fiona Graham: 00:15:33

business gave you a really good.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:36

Advantage in the skills market because increasingly people want to work

Fiona Graham: 00:15:42

for a business where it's not just about the salary that you take home.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:45

At the end of the day, it's about the business, the kinds of business

Fiona Graham: 00:15:48

that you're working for, the purpose.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:50

What are you all working together?

Fiona Graham: 00:15:51

The value, the cultures of that business, it's not enough just

Fiona Graham: 00:15:55

to get paid a certain amount.

Fiona Graham: 00:15:58

You actually want to feel valued and part of something that you believe in.

Fiona Graham: 00:16:03

And they're, that's somewhere that family businesses have a real kind of

Fiona Graham: 00:16:06

advantage in the market because they do have such a strong sense of purpose.

Fiona Graham: 00:16:10

They do have such strong values.

Fiona Graham: 00:16:12

And we see all the time when we go around talking to businesses, you'll go to

Fiona Graham: 00:16:16

a business where there'll be multiple generations of a family working there,

Fiona Graham: 00:16:20

not the owning family, other families.

Fiona Graham: 00:16:22

And I think that's testament to what good employers they are, because you

Fiona Graham: 00:16:26

wouldn't recommend to your children that they should work somewhere if you

Fiona Graham: 00:16:29

didn't think it was a good place to work.

Fiona Graham: 00:16:31

And I.

Fiona Graham: 00:16:32

Small things like that send a really strong signal.

Fiona Graham: 00:16:35

Um, so I think that again, like the family businesses really felt that there was

Fiona Graham: 00:16:41

a real opportunity for them in the kind of the war for talent as it sometimes

Fiona Graham: 00:16:46

described in positioning themselves as family businesses and as good employers.

Fiona Graham: 00:16:52

Um, one of the other interesting things that came up when we were talking

Fiona Graham: 00:16:55

about people within the businesses was the importance of non-family.

Fiona Graham: 00:17:01

And how important many people kind of were increasingly realizing that the role

Fiona Graham: 00:17:06

of a really trusted non-family person within a senior level of the business was

Fiona Graham: 00:17:11

whether that's, you know, whether that's the someone on the board or you know,

Fiona Graham: 00:17:15

someone in the exec who could challenge your way of thinking, bring in new ideas

Fiona Graham: 00:17:20

as well, and also kind of just shake up the way that you think about stuff.

Fiona Graham: 00:17:25

So I think that, A lot of optimism actually amongst a

Fiona Graham: 00:17:29

very challenging background.

Fiona Graham: 00:17:31

But it was also interesting that the family businesses were thinking

Fiona Graham: 00:17:34

about these longer term issues like skills and like people, which isn't

Fiona Graham: 00:17:38

something you are gonna solve overnight.

Fiona Graham: 00:17:41

Um, it's something that's gonna need a kind of cultural change or

Fiona Graham: 00:17:44

a big push in a certain direction.

Fiona Graham: 00:17:47

Um, yeah, so, so challenging, but positive at the same time.

Fiona Graham: 00:17:51

I.

Russ Haworth: 00:17:52

Yeah, there's a few things in there that are, are resonating with

Russ Haworth: 00:17:56

the conversations that I've been having as well with, with some of the families

Russ Haworth: 00:17:59

that I'm working with, and the, the kind of, as we were emerging from.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:05

The Covid pandemic and, and getting a bit more of a handle on what that might,

Russ Haworth: 00:18:10

um, look like and involve for people.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:12

A lot of people talk about the new normal and that new normal being where there

Russ Haworth: 00:18:17

would be hybrid working, and then there would be this and there would be that.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:20

Um, you mentioned as well the.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:23

People striving for something more purposeful in terms of the work

Russ Haworth: 00:18:27

in which they're doing and the competitive advantage that family

Russ Haworth: 00:18:29

firms can have, um, in, in that space.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:32

I think now because we are seeing things like energy prices increase and

Russ Haworth: 00:18:37

that kind of cost of living crisis.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:39

Whereas people were thinking, well, I can spend more time at home, um,

Russ Haworth: 00:18:43

sort of cozy at home, um, instead of going into the office, it's now

Russ Haworth: 00:18:47

like, well, if, if the heating is so expensive at home, then maybe I need to

Russ Haworth: 00:18:52

go and spend more time in the office.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:53

And so our kind of ideas around what that nor new normal could look like, I think

Russ Haworth: 00:18:58

has been disrupted by the fact that we've now got a set of market conditions that,

Russ Haworth: 00:19:02

you know, don't necessarily align to, to that hybrid way of, um, doing things.

Russ Haworth: 00:19:09

I think as well, it, it, you mentioned about the, um, skills shortage.

Russ Haworth: 00:19:14

It, it is a very competitive market in, in terms of recruitment and

Russ Haworth: 00:19:20

there are certain sectors that I've been talking to where they've had.

Russ Haworth: 00:19:23

This issue has been building for a number of years.

Russ Haworth: 00:19:26

It's been a lack of sort of training and investment maybe as

Russ Haworth: 00:19:29

long ago as five, 10 years ago.

Russ Haworth: 00:19:31

That's now led to their not being the right type of people in, in,

Russ Haworth: 00:19:35

with the skills at the moment.

Russ Haworth: 00:19:36

And so I think we can't, we can't ignore the fact that

Russ Haworth: 00:19:39

there are some, um, headwinds.

Russ Haworth: 00:19:42

Um, but it's great to hear that there's that optimism amongst those,

Russ Haworth: 00:19:46

um, you're speaking with, um, and the the wider family business community.

Russ Haworth: 00:19:51

That long term view is such an important aspect of, um, family businesses that

Russ Haworth: 00:19:56

I think is gonna really come into its own over the next, um, six to 24 months.

Fiona Graham: 00:20:02

Yeah, I think, you know, skills I think is one of

Fiona Graham: 00:20:04

those things we've been talking about for a very long time.

Fiona Graham: 00:20:07

Um, in terms of the kind of political levers around skills, you know,

Fiona Graham: 00:20:11

we would like to see some big changes to the apprenticeship levy.

Fiona Graham: 00:20:14

It just doesn't kind of work for businesses at the moment.

Fiona Graham: 00:20:16

It's not working for, for, for people who might get apprentices,

Fiona Graham: 00:20:20

apprenticeships either.

Fiona Graham: 00:20:21

You know, if it doesn't work for business, they won't offer enough

Fiona Graham: 00:20:23

apprenticeships and therefore it won't kind of stimulate that.

Fiona Graham: 00:20:27

But I think that there are kind of these big challenges, particularly around.

Fiona Graham: 00:20:31

You know, as we have an aging workforce, how are we creating good quality work

Fiona Graham: 00:20:36

for people and how are we upskilling them throughout their working life?

Fiona Graham: 00:20:42

Because we're kind of, and then we've got like net zero, which is going

Fiona Graham: 00:20:45

to require a major skills overhaul.

Fiona Graham: 00:20:48

There's all these different elements and it does kind of require some quite

Fiona Graham: 00:20:51

big thinking, I think, to really get us to where we need to be as a country,

Fiona Graham: 00:20:56

which is growing, creating more jobs, uh, seeing businesses thrive.

Russ Haworth: 00:21:01

Mm.

Russ Haworth: 00:21:02

And part of the temptation when, when market conditions are, um, trickier,

Russ Haworth: 00:21:07

is to get heads down on, just work on getting through that period of time.

Russ Haworth: 00:21:11

And I guess what we were hearing in, in the.

Russ Haworth: 00:21:15

Road side of things was that the, there needs to be that balance.

Russ Haworth: 00:21:19

It's kind of, yes, we've got the immediacy of, of what's happening, but

Russ Haworth: 00:21:23

as we are taking longer term views, we can afford to take longer term decisions

Russ Haworth: 00:21:28

rather than just focusing on what's happening on, on the here and now.

Russ Haworth: 00:21:32

And I guess that's an important element as well of considering, you know,

Russ Haworth: 00:21:36

where, um, skills shortage might be, is actually let's look further ahead rather

Russ Haworth: 00:21:42

than what's the immediate here and.

Fiona Graham: 00:21:45

Yeah, the hibernation point is kind of, uh, It's a real worry

Fiona Graham: 00:21:50

because if we, if we're, we've had a kind of a decade of low productivity

Fiona Graham: 00:21:54

growth and just low growth generally.

Fiona Graham: 00:21:57

Um, we had this huge interruption with the pandemic and now we really need to

Fiona Graham: 00:22:01

be kind of setting course for future growth to get where we need to be and to

Fiona Graham: 00:22:06

kind of make up for some lost time there.

Fiona Graham: 00:22:09

Um, And, and hopefully we will see more of that.

Fiona Graham: 00:22:12

You know, we have, we have a new prime minister, we have a new chancellor, a new

Fiona Graham: 00:22:15

business secretary, and we really hope that we can see still very early days.

Fiona Graham: 00:22:19

But um, and we've already seen the autumn statement, you know, within a

Fiona Graham: 00:22:23

few weeks of them coming into office.

Fiona Graham: 00:22:25

But hopefully we can see more on what their plan is, what

Fiona Graham: 00:22:28

their longer term plan is.

Fiona Graham: 00:22:29

Cuz that's the challenge for family businesses is when there is a change

Fiona Graham: 00:22:32

in government or there is a change in.

Fiona Graham: 00:22:34

Um, you know, even, even individual ministers that often that

Fiona Graham: 00:22:40

completely overhauls the policy.

Fiona Graham: 00:22:41

Well, actually what family businesses tell us they want is kind of long term

Fiona Graham: 00:22:44

stability and pre autum statement kind of stability was my, was my buzzword,

Fiona Graham: 00:22:49

um, as it was for lots of people.

Fiona Graham: 00:22:51

But, um, you know, we do want to have that understanding of what is the government's

Fiona Graham: 00:22:55

long term ambition for growth.

Fiona Graham: 00:22:59

Um, and.

Fiona Graham: 00:23:01

We as we as kind of representatives of this sector, can make sure that's

Fiona Graham: 00:23:06

gonna work, family businesses, but also make sure the family business voice

Fiona Graham: 00:23:09

is heard because the kind of way that policy is often made on very short term

Fiona Graham: 00:23:12

cycles isn't gonna work for, you know, family businesses that are planning

Fiona Graham: 00:23:16

their investment over the long term.

Russ Haworth: 00:23:18

absolutely.

Russ Haworth: 00:23:19

And we are just, um, a few days post autumn statement, so I guess it's

Russ Haworth: 00:23:24

timely for us to perhaps spend a couple of minutes just looking at.

Russ Haworth: 00:23:29

What was um, announced?

Russ Haworth: 00:23:31

What was announced?

Russ Haworth: 00:23:33

You know, what is gonna come in over the next few years that's gonna impact on

Russ Haworth: 00:23:38

those, um, family businesses listening.

Russ Haworth: 00:23:41

Now, I appreciate that, that we have a global audience with the, the podcast.

Russ Haworth: 00:23:45

Um, and this is a very UK focused, um, statement, but I think it's important

Russ Haworth: 00:23:50

to understand the challenges that, that everybody's facing in that sense, uh,

Russ Haworth: 00:23:55

and to, to give, um, kind of an overview.

Russ Haworth: 00:23:59

What's happened in the UK statement is, is important.

Russ Haworth: 00:24:02

So what were the things that stood out for you in, in terms of, um,

Russ Haworth: 00:24:06

the statement we heard last week?

Fiona Graham: 00:24:08

So, yeah, as you say, last week, the chancellor

Fiona Graham: 00:24:10

delivered the autumn statement.

Fiona Graham: 00:24:13

Only two months after the previous Chancellor's mini budget, uh, which

Fiona Graham: 00:24:18

certainly, um, you know, had some extreme reactions, uh, to that one.

Fiona Graham: 00:24:23

Um, so Jeremy Hunt, when he kind of set out this statement this last week, said,

Fiona Graham: 00:24:28

you know, his priorities were stability and growth and public services, and I

Fiona Graham: 00:24:33

think you'll have seen from all business groups, all business representatives in

Fiona Graham: 00:24:37

the weeks leading up to the statement.

Fiona Graham: 00:24:39

Stability was the key message, and that was what he was really

Fiona Graham: 00:24:43

kind of trying to push for.

Fiona Graham: 00:24:45

I think that's also why we saw a lot of the, um, the announcements

Fiona Graham: 00:24:50

pre-announced as we refer to it.

Fiona Graham: 00:24:53

Um, Because I think there was one, they wanted to kind of really not

Fiona Graham: 00:24:57

blindside anybody with, um, decision or with decisions or statements.

Fiona Graham: 00:25:01

So we kind of did expect a lot of what was in there.

Fiona Graham: 00:25:04

There was some rumored changes that were maybe gonna come around rates

Fiona Graham: 00:25:08

for capital gains tax, which didn't emerge, which were very pleased about.

Fiona Graham: 00:25:12

Um, there were changes around dividend tax and capital gains tax allowance.

Fiona Graham: 00:25:17

Which I think will really hurt, hurt small business owners who rely on

Fiona Graham: 00:25:22

dividends and who didn't get a huge amount of support during the pandemic,

Fiona Graham: 00:25:25

and so will already be struggling and feeling it's a difficult time.

Fiona Graham: 00:25:29

So that, that I think is a, is a difficult decision to have made.

Fiona Graham: 00:25:33

Um, There was still no clarity on the energy support package for business.

Fiona Graham: 00:25:39

Um, we weren't expecting that in this statement.

Fiona Graham: 00:25:42

We're expecting some more clarity on that pre-Christmas because to remind your

Fiona Graham: 00:25:46

listeners, the support for businesses as it's currently structured, um, only lasts

Fiona Graham: 00:25:51

until the end of March, beginning of April next year, and the government said it will

Fiona Graham: 00:25:56

do more targeted business support over after that, so we weren't expecting it.

Fiona Graham: 00:26:01

Autumn statement, and we didn't see it in the autumn statement, but

Fiona Graham: 00:26:04

we are expecting some clarity on the kinds of sectors or the kinds

Fiona Graham: 00:26:07

of businesses that'll get support.

Fiona Graham: 00:26:09

Pre-Christmas on that one, there were big ticket items like business rates.

Fiona Graham: 00:26:15

So business rates is an ongoing issue, um, and has been for many years and.

Fiona Graham: 00:26:19

There's been talk about kind of major overhaul and reform of that.

Fiona Graham: 00:26:24

There wasn't that big overhaul.

Fiona Graham: 00:26:26

There was some, um, kind of transitionary relief to, because as it stands,

Fiona Graham: 00:26:31

business rates are meant to go up by about 10.1% in April, the same time that

Fiona Graham: 00:26:36

businesses are potentially also facing a massive increase in their energy costs.

Fiona Graham: 00:26:41

So that's another thing that.

Fiona Graham: 00:26:42

This double whammy is gonna be hugely damaging for a lot of businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:26:46

There's some relief on that in terms of just reducing kind of the impact

Fiona Graham: 00:26:51

of that massive rise and a bit of transitionary relief around which,

Fiona Graham: 00:26:56

um, which band you are gonna be in.

Fiona Graham: 00:26:59

And there's an extension of some relief for retail and hospitality

Fiona Graham: 00:27:03

and leisure businesses as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:27:05

But we would.

Fiona Graham: 00:27:06

To have seen kind of more movement on the fundamental reform of the system

Fiona Graham: 00:27:10

because that is something that PI people have been talking about for a long time.

Fiona Graham: 00:27:15

Um, alongside that, there was also.

Fiona Graham: 00:27:19

There have been rumors about an online sales tax and part of the kind of how

Fiona Graham: 00:27:23

we're gonna move forward and address the business rates, issues that the

Fiona Graham: 00:27:27

government said in this, in the documents supporting the, um, supporting the

Fiona Graham: 00:27:32

auto state, and then not going ahead with the online sales tax for now.

Fiona Graham: 00:27:36

Um, which was an interesting decision I think.

Fiona Graham: 00:27:39

, there was some increases in terms of employer costs.

Fiona Graham: 00:27:42

So the national living wage is gonna be going up by about 9.7%.

Fiona Graham: 00:27:48

Um, there's also going to be an in, um, the level, the threshold

Fiona Graham: 00:27:54

at which employers start paying secondary, uh, national insurance

Fiona Graham: 00:27:57

contributions has been fixed as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:27:59

So it's kind of a fiscal drag measure, but the employment allowance

Fiona Graham: 00:28:03

remains so for smaller businesses, they'll still have some relief.

Fiona Graham: 00:28:07

There was a mixed picture on r and d.

Fiona Graham: 00:28:10

Um, although the r and d tax credits were reduced for SMEs, the

Fiona Graham: 00:28:18

government did maintain the overall kind of government spend on r and d,

Fiona Graham: 00:28:25

That, which is kind of gonna go up by about 22, about 20

Fiona Graham: 00:28:29

billion a year by 20 24, 25.

Fiona Graham: 00:28:32

So there was that kind of short term, taking away the r and d tax credits, um,

Fiona Graham: 00:28:37

but protecting the public spending and r and d, which I think protecting that

Fiona Graham: 00:28:42

public spending is important when you're talking about long term decision making,

Fiona Graham: 00:28:47

the same, um, The government protected the public capital budget for infrastructure.

Fiona Graham: 00:28:52

So things like HS two, EastWest Rail, the kind of core Northern Powerhouse

Fiona Graham: 00:28:58

rail and the Project Gigabits, um, funding has all been protected.

Fiona Graham: 00:29:02

So not there is a temptation at times like this.

Fiona Graham: 00:29:06

Economically to slash those big ticket items just to keep

Fiona Graham: 00:29:10

the cash in the reserves.

Fiona Graham: 00:29:11

But actually I think the decision not to make that short term decision that

Fiona Graham: 00:29:15

has massive long term consequences cuz these infrastructure projects

Fiona Graham: 00:29:19

take such a long time to deliver that.

Fiona Graham: 00:29:21

Actually I think that was a good move.

Fiona Graham: 00:29:24

Um, there was some positive news, I think on, I mentioned it, apprent.

Fiona Graham: 00:29:29

Apprenticeships Earlier, there was some positive news on, um, the appointment

Fiona Graham: 00:29:33

of Sir Michael Barber to set out how the government's gonna implement the reforms

Fiona Graham: 00:29:38

from the Skills for Jobs white paper.

Fiona Graham: 00:29:41

So that includes things like the lifelong learning entitlement,

Fiona Graham: 00:29:44

T levels, higher technical.

Fiona Graham: 00:29:47

Qualifications, skills, boot camps and things.

Fiona Graham: 00:29:49

So not forgetting skills I think was important as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:29:53

Um, so it was quite, um, it was, it was, it's a challenging time.

Fiona Graham: 00:29:57

I mean, nobody's gonna pretend that it's not, and there are, on the

Fiona Graham: 00:30:00

personal tax side, obviously there's a freeze to income tax thresholds, a

Fiona Graham: 00:30:04

reduction in the highest rate band, all this kind of fiscal drag measures.

Fiona Graham: 00:30:09

But I think that, Um, there were some signs of where the government's

Fiona Graham: 00:30:13

gonna go longer term that were positive, but I just think I would

Fiona Graham: 00:30:18

have liked to have seen a bit more.

Fiona Graham: 00:30:22

On signaling intentions for where they were going to

Fiona Graham: 00:30:25

look and focus on the future.

Fiona Graham: 00:30:27

I know that with kind of three weeks, you can't put together a huge amount

Fiona Graham: 00:30:32

of, kind of spend, particularly spending interventions, but, um, some more signals.

Fiona Graham: 00:30:38

And I hope that this side of Christmas we see more detail from grant shops

Fiona Graham: 00:30:41

as the business secretary about what the longer term plan is on business.

Fiona Graham: 00:30:47

Um, I think, you know, we need to stimulate growth.

Fiona Graham: 00:30:50

We need to stimulate productivity improvement.

Fiona Graham: 00:30:52

We need to stimulate investment and, uh, we can't take our eye off the long term.

Russ Haworth: 00:30:58

Yeah, absolutely.

Russ Haworth: 00:30:59

And I, I guess as well, we've touched on this a couple of times during this

Russ Haworth: 00:31:03

conversation, obviously our previous conversations as well, in terms of your

Russ Haworth: 00:31:07

role with the IFB in, in looking at policy and external affairs, this statement at

Russ Haworth: 00:31:14

least now gives you something to, to go.

Russ Haworth: 00:31:17

Back on because it was previously the, there was the mini budget, there

Russ Haworth: 00:31:22

was then a reaction from the market that created a lot of instability,

Russ Haworth: 00:31:26

which then had to, we kind of knew what was gonna be rode back on and,

Russ Haworth: 00:31:30

and what was gonna be, um, looked at.

Russ Haworth: 00:31:32

At least now there has been this statement that goes, okay, and then you can stop.

Russ Haworth: 00:31:36

Um, Be being, um, vocal with, uh, within your role based on

Russ Haworth: 00:31:42

that rather than speculation.

Russ Haworth: 00:31:44

And, um, it, it's something tangible to, to go for, right.

Fiona Graham: 00:31:49

Yeah, I think you know, the usefulness of a statement like this is,

Fiona Graham: 00:31:52

as you say, there's the opportunity to feed in before to make sure that things

Fiona Graham: 00:31:55

you want either make the cut or aren't done, which is as important a part of

Fiona Graham: 00:32:00

Public Affairs as anything is making sure that bad things aren't introduced

Fiona Graham: 00:32:03

as well as that good things are.

Fiona Graham: 00:32:06

I think, you know, we are very clear on we need to grow and we need to

Fiona Graham: 00:32:11

not take our life the long term.

Fiona Graham: 00:32:12

And that's what we are gonna continue to push for.

Fiona Graham: 00:32:14

We can react to these, some of these short term measures we're

Fiona Graham: 00:32:17

feeding in on what the new energy support should look like and things.

Fiona Graham: 00:32:21

Um, I think

Fiona Graham: 00:32:22

that long term plan is really important.

Fiona Graham: 00:32:24

Um, we also, At some point in the next couple of years probably have an election.

Fiona Graham: 00:32:32

So we're, we're gauging kind of with politicians across the board to

Fiona Graham: 00:32:35

make sure that they all understand what family businesses need.

Fiona Graham: 00:32:38

My role is not just about talking to the government, whoever

Fiona Graham: 00:32:40

the government of the day is.

Fiona Graham: 00:32:41

It's about talking to all policy makers so they all understand a, the

Fiona Graham: 00:32:45

kind of role and value of the sector, but also what they need specifically.

Fiona Graham: 00:32:50

Um, and, you know, the stability point was key.

Fiona Graham: 00:32:54

People felt very.

Fiona Graham: 00:32:56

You know, the, the market movement had huge impact on pensions and

Fiona Graham: 00:33:00

things, but it also had a huge impact on business confidence.

Fiona Graham: 00:33:03

So stabilizing some of that, the fact that there was an OBR forecast to

Fiona Graham: 00:33:07

go alongside this was a huge deal.

Fiona Graham: 00:33:10

Um, and we will see, okay, where do we go from here?

Russ Haworth: 00:33:16

Mm.

Russ Haworth: 00:33:17

And if people are listening to this and have particular views on,

Russ Haworth: 00:33:21

uh, a certain policy or a certain, um, objective that would assist

Russ Haworth: 00:33:27

them, they can get in touch, right?

Russ Haworth: 00:33:28

They can say, Fiona, can we talk to you about this?

Russ Haworth: 00:33:32

And that's part of your role again within the IFB and the IFB in general,

Russ Haworth: 00:33:38

is to, to champion that voice of, um, family business and to, to elevate it.

Fiona Graham: 00:33:43

Yeah.

Fiona Graham: 00:33:43

Yeah, absolutely.

Fiona Graham: 00:33:45

I'd also really strongly encourage kind of along the lines of what

Fiona Graham: 00:33:49

we're trying to do with Family Business Week to talk to your mp.

Fiona Graham: 00:33:52

Like if there are things that you really need, if there are things that you really

Fiona Graham: 00:33:58

like , there are things you really dislike that the government are doing, then all

Fiona Graham: 00:34:02

of those things are important for your.

Fiona Graham: 00:34:04

MP to know they're there to represent you, you're an important

Fiona Graham: 00:34:07

part of their constituency.

Fiona Graham: 00:34:10

Um, but I really highlight the kind of, if there are things that you.

Fiona Graham: 00:34:14

Like, and that are working for you, it's important for your MP to know,

Fiona Graham: 00:34:18

because people often go to their MP to complain about things that

Fiona Graham: 00:34:21

aren't working completely valid.

Fiona Graham: 00:34:23

Um, and the important part of, you know, communicating with your mp.

Fiona Graham: 00:34:27

But often the feedback they get is about stuff that doesn't work.

Fiona Graham: 00:34:31

And that means that when something comes up for, is it gonna be renewed

Fiona Graham: 00:34:35

if it's a business support program or you know, some kind of intervention.

Fiona Graham: 00:34:41

And none, nobody has kind of said to them, actually, I really love this.

Fiona Graham: 00:34:44

This has been phenomenally helpful to us.

Fiona Graham: 00:34:47

Then it's difficult for them to decide, well actually

Fiona Graham: 00:34:49

should we continue with this?

Fiona Graham: 00:34:50

So it's really important to tell them about the things that are working as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:34:54

Um, strongly encourage that.

Fiona Graham: 00:34:57

Cause for example, so the help to grow sys scheme, which, uh, helped grow management,

Fiona Graham: 00:35:02

which was launched by Rishi when he was Chancellor, which is about, um, gives

Fiona Graham: 00:35:07

business support that people can go to.

Fiona Graham: 00:35:09

Um, Business schools and things and do learning that way for small businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:35:15

I'm hearing fantastic feedback about that.

Fiona Graham: 00:35:18

Um, there were then some rumors that pre autumn statement that, that

Fiona Graham: 00:35:21

might be cut back, um, didn't happen.

Fiona Graham: 00:35:25

But, you know, I know that a lot of people who were kind of with

Fiona Graham: 00:35:28

small businesses particularly were saying, this is really valuable.

Fiona Graham: 00:35:31

This is.

Fiona Graham: 00:35:33

People are saying This is a good scheme.

Fiona Graham: 00:35:34

Please don't change it.

Fiona Graham: 00:35:36

Because for businesses that kind of constant changing of the goalposts

Fiona Graham: 00:35:40

and and around what support is available and to who and how you

Fiona Graham: 00:35:43

access it is really disruptive.

Fiona Graham: 00:35:44

Cuz businesses have got a full-time job running their business.

Fiona Graham: 00:35:48

They don't have time to understand and navigate and ever-changing

Fiona Graham: 00:35:50

business support landscape.

Russ Haworth: 00:35:53

Yeah, absolutely.

Russ Haworth: 00:35:54

And we've touched on that as part of your role in terms of your specific

Russ Haworth: 00:35:59

job role that the, um, policy and external affairs, but there is,

Russ Haworth: 00:36:06

if we broaden the conversation out around what other work, the I F B.

Russ Haworth: 00:36:11

Do, and I know you are working in conjunction with other, um, teams as well.

Russ Haworth: 00:36:17

What are some of the other areas that the i b um, particularly

Russ Haworth: 00:36:21

getting involved in at the moment?

Fiona Graham: 00:36:23

So our job is to support family businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:36:27

So on my side that's kind of predominantly making sure that the

Fiona Graham: 00:36:30

regulatory environment is supportive, um, for them and to champion them.

Fiona Graham: 00:36:36

But what we also do is we have a network, um, and create connections

Fiona Graham: 00:36:41

between family businesses so that they can kind of tackle the core family

Fiona Graham: 00:36:45

business issues, but also other.

Fiona Graham: 00:36:49

Bigger challenges, longer term trends, things like that.

Fiona Graham: 00:36:53

So we provide support in a number of different ways.

Fiona Graham: 00:36:56

That's through events and learning and through, um, those connections and

Fiona Graham: 00:37:01

through offering advice and kind of support articles, that kind of thing.

Fiona Graham: 00:37:05

we are looking at all sorts of, kind of different themes.

Fiona Graham: 00:37:08

So as I said, you know, the core issues around that we always do will be around

Fiona Graham: 00:37:12

family business, governance and, uh, succession and kind of the, the model

Fiona Graham: 00:37:17

and how that influences how you.

Fiona Graham: 00:37:19

Act.

Fiona Graham: 00:37:19

But then we also have, um, this year we've relaunched our next gen community.

Fiona Graham: 00:37:25

So that is bringing together members of the next generation to get together and

Fiona Graham: 00:37:29

to build a network for themselves and to share their experiences, hear from some

Fiona Graham: 00:37:33

great speakers, um, talk about the kind of challenges that they're facing and kind of

Fiona Graham: 00:37:38

appear network that they can learn from.

Fiona Graham: 00:37:40

We've also launched, um, a community for chairs in family business.

Fiona Graham: 00:37:45

So being in that role is really important and, uh, quite challenging

Fiona Graham: 00:37:49

sometimes so that they can get together.

Fiona Graham: 00:37:51

And then next year we're looking at launching communities, um, for

Fiona Graham: 00:37:56

non-family, within family businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:37:58

So I think that that is a, an interesting place to be, particularly if you are

Fiona Graham: 00:38:01

the only non-family person in the exec.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:04

That's quite a challenge, . And, um, and creating a network for

Fiona Graham: 00:38:07

those people, um, which I think is gonna be really important.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:11

And then also for non-executive director.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:13

Because increasingly we're talking to people about the

Fiona Graham: 00:38:15

role of non-exec directors.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:17

We launched a, a kind of a guide.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:20

Um, a report a couple of years ago on that, uh, known last year on that.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:25

And, um, we've been talking more and more to people about non-executive directors.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:29

But, you know, next year we have quite an ambitious events program planned.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:33

We're gonna be doing stuff around the country.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:35

We are going to be looking at, um, Kind of what it means

Fiona Graham: 00:38:39

to be a responsible business.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:41

How do you grow responsibly?

Fiona Graham: 00:38:43

What are the challenges you're gonna face?

Fiona Graham: 00:38:44

What are the opportunities that you are, that you have?

Fiona Graham: 00:38:47

Um, particularly looking at the role of people within the businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:50

So whether that is family, whether that's non-family.

Fiona Graham: 00:38:54

Um, so yeah, we have an exciting year planned, so an ambitious events program.

Fiona Graham: 00:39:01

Online content, these communities where people can join and be part of those.

Fiona Graham: 00:39:06

And then also on the championing, um, and advocacy side, which is what I'm doing.

Fiona Graham: 00:39:11

And then there's our sister organization, the IFB Research Foundation, which

Fiona Graham: 00:39:15

is a separate charity, which does amazing work exploring the sector

Fiona Graham: 00:39:19

and putting together research on.

Fiona Graham: 00:39:22

What the sector looks like, the scale of the contribution, then it makes

Fiona Graham: 00:39:26

the economy the kind of challenges that they're facing, but then also

Fiona Graham: 00:39:29

deep dives into specific kind of re um, topics of interest with guides

Fiona Graham: 00:39:34

and support, um, out for businesses, kind of practical, tangible support.

Fiona Graham: 00:39:39

So they've done something recently on family business governance,

Fiona Graham: 00:39:43

which is really interesting.

Fiona Graham: 00:39:44

Looks at the way that family business.

Fiona Graham: 00:39:46

Structure their governance.

Fiona Graham: 00:39:47

What's, what are people using?

Fiona Graham: 00:39:49

What works really well.

Fiona Graham: 00:39:51

They've also, um, done something called community engagement,

Fiona Graham: 00:39:54

which was very interesting.

Fiona Graham: 00:39:55

And then they also have this set of family business challenges guides, which are kind

Fiona Graham: 00:40:00

of a snapshot of planning your succession, what do you do, how do you think about it?

Fiona Graham: 00:40:07

And each one has a case study.

Fiona Graham: 00:40:09

So they've got all these kind of different resources that they put out.

Russ Haworth: 00:40:13

Yeah, it's fantastic.

Russ Haworth: 00:40:14

And one of the, um, other areas that they work in is obviously they publish,

Russ Haworth: 00:40:18

um, like sector reports and, and updates on, on that side and as well

Russ Haworth: 00:40:23

as this being family Business week.

Russ Haworth: 00:40:24

This mini-series is kind of focusing on.

Russ Haworth: 00:40:29

Some of the myths that perhaps we hear around family businesses.

Russ Haworth: 00:40:33

So in order to, to tie the two together, what are some of the more common things

Russ Haworth: 00:40:38

that you hear and it kind of makes you grind your teeth a little bit.

Russ Haworth: 00:40:42

You go, oh, , it's not, it's not the case.

Fiona Graham: 00:40:46

So I think one of the things that I hear a lot is that, or

Fiona Graham: 00:40:50

this perception that family businesses is somehow a thing of the past and there

Fiona Graham: 00:40:55

aren't very many of them around anymore.

Fiona Graham: 00:40:57

And it's something that used to exist and doesn't anymore.

Fiona Graham: 00:41:00

Um, but actually, That's completely incorrect.

Fiona Graham: 00:41:05

Um, so this, the I three Research foundation's latest report, which

Fiona Graham: 00:41:09

is gonna come out shortly, shows that, um, you know, there are

Fiona Graham: 00:41:14

nearly 5 million family businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:41:16

They employ nearly 14 million people.

Fiona Graham: 00:41:19

Um, so that is not a small sector by any stretch of the imagination.

Fiona Graham: 00:41:25

And actually what they're, so they've been putting together that sector

Fiona Graham: 00:41:28

report for the past 10 years or so, and what we've seen over that time is an

Fiona Graham: 00:41:33

increase in family businesses over time.

Fiona Graham: 00:41:36

Um, now we have the data to kind of back that up because they've been doing

Fiona Graham: 00:41:39

it for such a long time and people are starting new family businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:41:45

Because they want to work with their family because they understand the kind

Fiona Graham: 00:41:48

of the special source that comes with being a family in business together.

Fiona Graham: 00:41:53

Um, but also, you know, entrepreneurs are thinking, well, what am I

Fiona Graham: 00:41:56

gonna do with this business?

Fiona Graham: 00:41:58

Actually, you know what, I'd really like this to continue.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:00

I don't want to just sell it.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:01

I want to kind of continue in the family, or my family are really interested

Fiona Graham: 00:42:04

in it, so let's continue the legacy.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:07

So I think that there's this idea.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:09

People don't want to be in family businesses anymore, that they don't exist.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:13

And actually, when you ask people, when I talk to people that I, they

Fiona Graham: 00:42:17

often kind of can point to a family business that they know or they love,

Fiona Graham: 00:42:20

maybe on their local High Street or you know, one of the national brands, the.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:24

But they kind of always assume that that's not replicated everywhere.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:28

not replicated in every village, in every high street, in every town, in every city.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:33

Um, and it really is, um, I think that the sector is resilient as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:39

So one of the other things that the, the new report shows is that,

Fiona Graham: 00:42:43

you know, it looks at kind of the time period that of the pandemic.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:48

So it does show that actually family business.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:51

Did have a really difficult time and lots of them did close.

Fiona Graham: 00:42:54

And that's not a surprise because lots of businesses closed and, um, lots of small

Fiona Graham: 00:42:58

businesses particularly really struggled.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:00

And so, um, that doesn't surprise us, I think.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:04

But it also shows that family businesses were less likely to make people redundant.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:10

Or less likely to lay off staff.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:12

And I think that that's something we've seen now in more than one

Fiona Graham: 00:43:15

recession or difficult economic time, that family businesses are

Fiona Graham: 00:43:19

less likely to make people redundant.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:21

Um, and I think that that's actually kind of points to their resilience,

Fiona Graham: 00:43:24

that they understand that this is a.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:28

Difficult time, but we will get past this.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:31

And when we get out the other side, we really want to have these

Fiona Graham: 00:43:34

skills and these people here to carry on the journey with us.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:39

So I think that that's an interesting kind of point.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:42

Um, I think there's also myths around the size of.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:46

The kind of, not only the kind of size of the whole sector, but that

Fiona Graham: 00:43:50

all family businesses are small.

Russ Haworth: 00:43:53

Mm.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:54

half of all midsize businesses in the

Fiona Graham: 00:43:56

UK are family businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:43:58

So we talk a lot about the middle stand in the UK and how if only we had

Fiona Graham: 00:44:06

this middle stand that Germany has, what that would mean for our economy.

Fiona Graham: 00:44:10

But actually, We have a middle stand.

Fiona Graham: 00:44:13

Some people have referred to it as the brittle stand, which I'm not a fan of,

Fiona Graham: 00:44:17

but we do have that mid-sized business.

Fiona Graham: 00:44:21

You know, we have a good number of mid-sized businesses.

Fiona Graham: 00:44:24

They are strong, long running businesses, and you know, around half

Fiona Graham: 00:44:28

of them are family owned and they have all the same kind of long term

Fiona Graham: 00:44:33

values led characteristics that the middle stamp businesses do as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:44:37

So let's.

Fiona Graham: 00:44:39

Celebrate those, um, and recognize them and actually make sure that

Fiona Graham: 00:44:43

policy recognizes them as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:44:45

Um, and then personally, I think one of the other things that I have

Fiona Graham: 00:44:50

heard sometimes is that kind of founding businesses are old fashioned.

Fiona Graham: 00:44:54

Well, I.

Fiona Graham: 00:44:55

Completely disagree with that because you do not become a

Fiona Graham: 00:44:58

successful multi-generational family business if you are not

Fiona Graham: 00:45:01

adapting and innovating and growing.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:03

And the sector report again, points to that.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:05

It points to, you know, the fact that businesses are investing in their people,

Fiona Graham: 00:45:10

they are investing in their products.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:11

And services.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:12

They're looking at new ideas.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:14

They're doing all of these things to continue to grow because they

Fiona Graham: 00:45:18

understand that to be a sustainable business you have to evolve.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:21

Um, there's many businesses within our network that I know started in

Fiona Graham: 00:45:25

one industry, you know, a hundred, 200 years ago, and somewhere completely

Fiona Graham: 00:45:28

different now because that's what business has to do to survive and to adapt.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:33

So I think that's one of the myths.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:35

And then kind of go back to the thing we were talking about earlier about.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:39

Purpose being a really strong opportunity for family businesses

Fiona Graham: 00:45:42

when it comes to people.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:44

I think often I kind of feel calls from journalists who are write, want to

Fiona Graham: 00:45:48

write something about how family, the next gen and family business doesn't

Fiona Graham: 00:45:51

want to join the family business.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:53

And it's kind of not true.

Fiona Graham: 00:45:55

Um, because, The next gen in those businesses do want to work in them

Fiona Graham: 00:46:00

because like other people, they want to work somewhere where they have really

Fiona Graham: 00:46:03

strong sense of purpose and where do you have a stronger sense of purpose

Fiona Graham: 00:46:07

than in building your family business.

Fiona Graham: 00:46:09

So I think that, you know, The we are in difficult kind of times.

Fiona Graham: 00:46:15

This is gonna be a difficult winter for all businesses, I think.

Fiona Graham: 00:46:18

But actually when you look at the fundamentals underpinning

Fiona Graham: 00:46:22

the family business model and the family business sector, there's a

Fiona Graham: 00:46:25

huge amount to be optimistic about.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:28

Yeah, I completely agree and I think that's a fantastic way to, to

Russ Haworth: 00:46:32

conclude on our conversation today is that despite the fact that there might be some.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:39

Sort of doom, gloom headlines out there.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:41

And there's no denying that it is gonna be difficult for many, many people.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:46

There is a huge amount of reason to be optimistic as well, and

Russ Haworth: 00:46:51

for those businesses that are listening, if you are looking for.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:55

Support in that I would strongly recommend, particularly UK based

Russ Haworth: 00:46:58

businesses to, to reach out to the IFB because it is a fantastic community.

Russ Haworth: 00:47:04

Um, it's a great organization, as Fiona says, to support, uh,

Russ Haworth: 00:47:09

and help, uh, family businesses.

Russ Haworth: 00:47:11

So I would strongly recommend that that is something, um, they

Russ Haworth: 00:47:14

do as well as share their, um, stories for family business Friday.

Russ Haworth: 00:47:21

Fiona, where can people get in touch?

Russ Haworth: 00:47:23

How can they find out more about, um, you and what you do?

Fiona Graham: 00:47:27

So you can find out more about the ifb ifb.org uk.

Fiona Graham: 00:47:31

You can find out more about Family Business week@familybusinessweek.co uk.

Fiona Graham: 00:47:36

Um, you can share my email in the show notes.

Fiona Graham: 00:47:39

Uh, you can become one of my four Twitter followers by as well.

Fiona Graham: 00:47:44

We'll put my Twitter handle in there, . Um, but yeah, or, or

Fiona Graham: 00:47:47

connect with me on LinkedIn.

Fiona Graham: 00:47:48

I'm on LinkedIn.

Fiona Graham: 00:47:49

Fiona Graham.

Fiona Graham: 00:47:49

So.

Russ Haworth: 00:47:51

Fantastic, and we will link that up and, um, just be

Russ Haworth: 00:47:55

prepared for your Twitter following to, um, skyrocket as a result of

Russ Haworth: 00:48:00

the power of this global audience.

Fiona Graham: 00:48:03

next time I'm here I'll set up a T and we can

Russ Haworth: 00:48:06

Sounds.

Russ Haworth: 00:48:07

Sounds good.

Russ Haworth: 00:48:09

Um, Fiona, thank you very much for your time.

Russ Haworth: 00:48:12

Um, and, uh, good luck with the rest of Family Business Week

Fiona Graham: 00:48:14

Great.