At first, Amy Stein thought the aches and pains gripping her body were psychosomatic. Working as a medical researcher studying chronic pain management, it seemed plausible that the symptoms her patients were experiencing made her hypervigilant of her own body.

But then the muscles in her back started to fuse, her weight dropped to a dangerous 85 pounds, and her body — screaming in pain — began to shut down.

Western Medicine — including 30 different specialists, from Neurologists to Hematologists, and Rheumatologists plus $320,000 in out-of-pocket medical expenses — offered no solutions.

Sick of being a medical guinea pig, and with a growing cocktail of prescription medications, Amy — who has a Bachelor of Psychology, and an MBA — put her research skills to personal use.

More than 8000 hours of investigation later, Amy discovered the link between trauma and autoimmune disease, the power of plant medicine, addressing imbalances within the body, toxicity, and parasites.

A note from Amy:

"Dr. Kim D'Eramo and other Energy Medicine teachers have been a big influence on my journey. It wasn't until I understood the relationship of mind-body-spirit healing that I began to recover. I am still constantly learning as I love researching and reading. I am working on starting to reach out and helping others to rebalance and thrive with the "power of the plants". I created my own original herbal products that I use in my daily healing and look forward to sharing with others in the future. I want to share my story with others to let them know there is a way back from the HELL of trauma and AI diseases. I decided to start writing a book about my experience. I am also planning on creating a series on different topics that I feel are relevant to know about in order to maneuver the minefields of our toxic world. I have used the plants in many different forms and I am always excited when I discover a new use for a plant-I owe a lot of my healing to Mother Nature and establishing trust in the innate intelligence of my body."

Connect with Kim on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/381761643253110

Dynamic Neural Retraining System (DNRS): https://retrainingthebrain.com/

Dr. Kim D'Eramo: drkimderamo.com

Head over to https://rebelhealthtribe.com/kit to get a free download of our loaded quick start guide to help you along your healing journey.  If you like us, subscribe, review, and share us with your friends, and come join our Rebel Health Tribe group on Facebook.

A Podcast Launch Bestie production

I'm here with Amy Stein, Amy.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm happy to be here.

Yeah, it's going to be fun.

And we had a great chat before we came on and it's a lot of fun and she's now

watched a bunch of our stuff and she's on the other end of the, of the camera now.

So let's all try to make her really nervous.

But, um, what we did is we wanted to do something unique with this

podcast and I don't know unique.

I don't honestly listen to tons of podcasts, so I don't know if somebody

has done it before, but we were looking at who we wanted to have on for this

first season to talk about healing journeys and the healing process.

And going through that we came up with the idea we have some pretty

amazing stories in our community.

Why don't we read.

To our people and see what comes up.

And so we chose four of them and we're going to get to know some

of our, our HT community members.

And I think it'll be a lot of fun.

I think it's, a fun way for, for you guys to be involved.

And then for our audience to see that, you know, all the other guests so far

have been doctors or practitioners of some kind, and now they can see like,

people like them, like people, people who aren't like a doctor, aren't a

practitioner, aren't a nutritionist.

And, um, to see that like, you know, see yourself more in the journey and

to see that, um, there are those who are among us in the community here who

have been through quite a bit and who have come out the other side of it.

So, um, I guess my first question would be where you healthy as a kid.

Yeah.

So that's the thing.

Like I don't ever remember being healthy.

Like I had bad acne in third grade, I had a dermatologist, like with third

grader has a dermatologist third grade.

I had bad cystic acne.

So I was seeing a dermatologist from third grade on.

And the treatment was then you gave him antibiotics, chronically on antibiotics.

As a kid had no idea that was destroying my gut.

Then they put me on Accutane in high school, which has like all

these other crazy side effects.

Now they don't even use that.

no.

Luckily the only thing I have is GI because of it.

And my father was

on a nasty list of side effects.

Yes.

You have to get blood work every month to make sure it's in effect your

liver, but it affected your liver.

Anyway, as we all know, everything goes through your liver.

So I always had migraines and some gates as a kid, but nobody knew it.

Celiac was then.

Right.

And so I grew up in a tine household.

My mom made chicken cutlets and like pasta, you know, like three

times a week, we always had salad.

We always had vegetables, but we always had some sort of

pasta or breading or something.

I mean always had stomach aches and I felt very unseen because my parents just

thought I'd want it to get out of things.

Right.

So I didn't want to go to someone's house or I didn't want to do

something because I had the stomach aches and I wasn't comfortable

going to somebody else's house.

And it followed me through high school.

The migraines progressively got worse.

I would like black out after lunch in high school.

And I would go down to the nurse's office and they would say, you

just don't want to sit in math class because you don't like math.

And I said, no, I'm like, blacking out.

Everything goes fuzzy.

Like there's all these, you know, I'm seeing these things that aren't there.

It's something's going on.

So I would go to my doctor.

I would tell her the things they would run, the routine blood work, nothing

would come up, nothing would come up.

He'd come up.

I was just always told you're really sensitive.

Just stop being so sensitive, you know, take the medications we give you.

Here's the medications for my greens.

Take it.

And I, I think like crazy nightmares.

I had nosebleeds, I had all this stuff.

I was depressed.

They put me on all these antidepressants.

I had all these crazy symptoms from it.

Yeah.

Acne the whole time to like junior high high school.

Um, it

got better, I guess, after the Accutane, the acne did

get better, but the GI symptoms got worse and the migraines got worse.

So before I just had like headaches as a kid, but now I was

in full on full blown migraine.

And then in college, like I, I was that person that I would have to

take like a two hour nap before I went out drinking with my.

Because I just didn't have the energy to get through it.

I was always tired.

I wanted to go to bed at like eight 30.

I still go to bed at like nine o'clock now for different reasons.

But I was always like, I couldn't function.

I was falling asleep.

I had fatigue.

I had all this stuff.

I went to my doctor in college.

I said, do you think I have a cache motos, his thyroid thing?

There's a lot of women in my family who have it.

No, no, no, no, no.

You don't have an, as we know, it takes, you know, 10 to 15 years,

20 years to get accurate diagnosis.

But basically how long it took me to get my diagnosis.

I've seen some versed it with what I was doing, but it was

like a long string of events.

I had childhood trauma, as we know, there's a correlation with trauma and

auto-immune, I didn't know any of that.

You know, I went to school for psychology.

I did all this research at the university.

None of that was ever mentioned.

I wasn't.

Doing that field, but like, you know, I was on pub med all the time.

I loved it.

I was a big book nerd.

I always read a lot.

I liked the excitement of learning new things.

And then I started to work with chronic pain patients a few years

after college, after I got my masters and we were doing, we were

teaching them alternative modality.

So guided meditation, coping skills training.

Yes.

Which was revolutionary.

So

yes.

So it was, but then not back then, I wasn't familiar with any of

the people that I know now back then, because I was very in the mindset of,

if you had an issue, you went to the doctor, they gave you a pill to fix it.

And if you didn't get better, it was cause you weren't compliant.

So even with my chronic teen patients, I kind of had this chip on my shoulder.

Well, you must not be compliant because we're offering you these alternative.

Options.

You're taking the medications.

You're taking a lot of medications, but you're still telling me all these things.

So I was, I enjoyed, I was with the geriatric population, which I enjoyed

a lot, but I was clueless and I didn't realize it until I got sick.

How cool was that?

I was, so I started to resemble my patients, I guess, I noticed a strong

correlation, probably about two years in.

And I remember telling my mom, like, I think there's something wrong.

A lot of these things are getting worse.

So my doctor referred me to an endocrinologist and he was really cold and

was like, there's nothing wrong with you.

You just have stress.

You just bought a house.

You're getting married.

These are good stressors.

You deal.

And I was really upset and I was, I thought, no, I, I

think there's something wrong.

I think you're missing something.

He told me I was pre-diabetic your thyroid was fine.

You know, just change, change the way you're eating and you won't.

Cause I was blacking out again.

So the migraines came back really, really bad.

I was blacking out.

I was throwing up, I was miserable.

I had no energy and everybody keeps telling you it's just stress.

It's just stress.

Go back to a, see a therapist.

You'll be fine.

And I knew like, no, no, no, there's something going on.

But again, in that system, I was indoctrinated as a child.

Like the doctor knows best you just, the doctor tells you the doctor,

if you're not doing it right.

It's not it's your fault.

Cause they know what they're talking about.

They went to medical school.

And so even though this little voice was like, Hmm, no, this isn't right.

I still went along with it.

It got to the point after I got married, I got really sick.

I, it was January.

I was coming back from the clinic to my office and I rolled my ankle outside.

I had flats on like, it wasn't wearing high heels.

I want to breaking my whole foot.

Like the whole metatarsal shattered had no idea.

I just thought, oh, it's really painful.

But it was edited.

My doctor was away and I couldn't get an x-ray.

It was like this whole thing.

So I pushed it off for a few days and they're like, oh, you know, your

metatarsal is completely broken.

I was like, oh, how does that happen?

They asked me what I did.

I said, I was just walking on the sidewalk.

I rolled my ankle and it broke.

So that was the beginning of the downhill slide.

The wheels just fell off.

So all this stuff started happening.

I was working with rheumatologists.

That, that time, that's how I was getting my patients.

I was one of the head rheumatologists was a PI on our study and

he was referring patients.

The other doctors in the facility were referring patients.

So I thought I'll just go see them.

I work with them every day.

I respect them.

I'll go see them.

So they did my blood.

At first, like, it was a little bit of things came up.

Like I had a little bit of a positive Ana had some positive C-reactive

protein, but other than that, like they really couldn't find anything.

And then I telling them like, all this is happening.

So they thought, well, we'll put you on some drugs to, you know, balance

things out, come back when it's worse.

Right.

They always tell you, come back when it's worse.

Like I said, can I make any changes?

Can I change my diet?

Can I change?

I, you know, I read this thing about deodorant.

You're pretty on your lymph nodes.

There's aluminum.

Do you think I should change that?

No, no, no.

That's you don't need to do any of that.

No, just take the medication, come back when it's worse.

And it really upset me.

And I remember telling my mom and my husband, like I respect these doctors.

I work with them all the time and I felt like they didn't listen to me.

And I'm just not a regular patient.

Like they've known me for years.

I worked with them on a daily basis.

You know, they know who I am.

And they were like, oh, it's fine.

Just take the medication.

I'll be fine.

It didn't get fine.

It aggressively got worse.

My Ana was like 3000.

All of my stuff was off the charts, but they couldn't, they

couldn't find a name for it.

Right.

So it was just like, oh, well, you're not, you don't fully fit into this box of RA.

You don't fully fit into the lupus box.

You don't fully fit into this box.

So we're just going to give you more medication and then

we'll see how that goes.

And I know this doesn't sit well with me, but I didn't know what else to do.

I felt really helpless.

I felt disempowered.

I didn't know what to do.

So I live in New York when I'm going into Manhattan.

Right?

Cause everyone's like, oh, the better doctors are in Manhattan.

That was not the case.

I did not have that experience.

So I went to other rheumatologists, other specialists throughout the whole area.

Everyone called me something different.

No one could agree on what I had.

No one could agree on a course of treatment.

No one could offer me any sort of guidance as to what to do.

They just felt like I was a difficult patient because even though I

cleaned, I was doing what they told me to do, I was getting worse and

they didn't know what to do with me.

So they just didn't want to deal with me.

So then I was like, either I would quit or they would fire me because

they didn't know how to handle me.

And it was a really, really awful feeling.

And I know I'm not alone in that.

I know there's a lot of people in our community who have gone through this and

it's a really bone-crushing sucky feeling.

So I remember I was like, okay, maybe I'll go back to therapy.

Right.

And that will help.

And I, even though I knew that it was just going to retraumatize me

and it wasn't going to do anything.

I didn't know what else to do.

And the therapist I saw didn't know what to do with me at that point.

I was trying to fight to get onto disability.

Totally defeated.

I couldn't get out of bed.

I had ridiculous pain.

I lost massive amounts of weight.

I kept breaking my feet.

So I would be like in double CAS, the doctors didn't know what to do with me.

I changed my diet.

I went to the celiac center.

I mean, I did everything as a type a person would do to get better.

It was this manic, manic, trying to figure out what was wrong with me.

Have you figured out what was causing your feet to break?

Yeah, it was the celiac.

Okay.

So like malnutrition, basically Villa that was so damaged that you

weren't absorbing nutrients and

minerals and I developed osteopenia because of it.

So

yeah, I'm

talking

faster.

Oh, it's totally fine.

I just want to, um, kind of lean into it.

It's okay.

If this is not where you want to go, but, um, just let me know as long as

you're, well, I'm going to talk about the correlation between being negated by

your parents and like that you're fine.

You just don't want to go do the thing or that you're fine.

And this or that, you know, you're, we're invalidated in your experience.

And then you were invalidated in your experience by the doctors

that you were going and scrambling.

And so

my husband, my husband didn't believe me either.

Oh, that's that's three.

So there's three that all different layers.

And so, um, I've been doing a lot of trauma work the

last few years and, um, Dr.

Gabor Matteo, who I'm studying under this, uh, international trauma expert.

Now he talks about his definition of trauma is not

the thing that happens to us.

It's what happens inside the body or what happens after.

Yeah.

And so it's more about what support and validation and care and

compassion and protection and all of that that we're able to receive.

So like the same thing can happen to two kids.

Yes.

And there's tons of examples of this, but the same thing can

happen to like a bus load of kids.

And if some of them get like care and compassion and validation and support

and protection and attunement and all of these things that are like for a healthy,

nervous system response to something, um, That incident will not really affect them.

Long-term very much.

And then the ones who don't receive that have a completely different

experience where it's like, my experience is invalid, meaning I am invalid.

Like I am it's it's stories, kids make up stories.

Like you've used the phrase, what's wrong with me a whole bunch of times

when you were trying to figure out, you know, your health situation and

kids make up stories, like we make up stories to make sense of the experience

that we're having and the experience.

The story that might get created.

If you're a kid and you always don't feel good and somebody telling you you're fine,

you just don't want to go to the thing.

Let's go to the thing.

Then you'd probably start to not even tell them half the time when you

didn't feel good, because you feel like it's a burden and then I'm a burden.

I'm this I'm that something's wrong with me.

I'm a complainer.

I'm going to get you a pen.

So like you learn to eat your you're not physically eat, but like absorb

and suppress your own experience.

Like your feelings.

Yes.

But like the thing that you're actually like experiencing is

suppressed then, because you can't share it, you can't express it.

And then to have that from doctors, from partners, from things like

that, like that's a lot of time of being really isolated with this,

because then that feels really alone.

Like when Mira has gone through her really bad flare.

People in her life who like don't know how to be there in that

will just be like, oh yeah, one time I had a really bad fall too.

And it's like, no, you don't get it.

Like at all.

Or like, oh, you can't even have pizza this one time.

Or like all these little things, like they just don't get or understand.

And then there's like a boiling, like rage, that comments and like, uh,

and then, but that can't be expressed either because they don't understand and

then they'll get defensive if you lash

out,

cut off even more.

And so you have to be something which isn't a bummer to

them in order to be around.

And I just, I think there was probably a lot of that going on.

And so I just wanted to point that out because that's something I've

learned about and witnessed being the caretaker for someone who's been

really sick and then studying a lot of trauma and psychology stuff like that.

Is just as painful or scary as the fear as the symptoms, it has the

breaking of the foot as the stomach upsets and all these other things.

And it's like the silent part of chronic disease that, okay.

Nobody

talks about it.

Nobody talks about it.

So even when I got to a place with a doctor who believes me,

right, which took over 10 years,

the doctor I have now, it's great because she actually lets me do my own research.

Right?

So she respects that I know what's best for me and that I am competent

enough to do the research, to look at the data and to figure out what's

going to work best for me, that was incredibly hard to find prior.

I went to other functional practitioners, other integrative practitioners.

When for treatments in Florida to see practitioners down there

because New York is so strict with what you can and cannot do.

Like you basically can't do anything here.

So we went to Florida to get treatment.

And even then it was like an uphill battle, right?

You're pushing the rock, the Boulder up the hill.

No one listens to you.

No one sees you.

No one believes you of what you're saying, right.

It can't be that there, you can't be that alone.

You can't be in that much pain.

You couldn't have tried everything.

There's something you're doing wrong.

It's never, it's never the doctor.

It's never the protocol because I would do these.

So they would have me do these protocols that other patients had done.

And I would just get sicker.

I'd become septic, I'd become bedridden.

I would not be able to eat anything.

You know, I'd have to go on a liquid diet and it was my fault.

Right.

I wasn't doing it.

And so it was crazy that I finally got to the point where I

realized this, this is insanity.

Like, this is the definition of insanity.

And that I now see how frustrated my patients were.

Like, I would listen to them and I would advocate for them, but I never

really understood where they were at.

And so I got sick myself and then to try to explain it to people that I had been

friends with for years, they had no, like you said, they would try to compare.

It was like, you know, it was a comparison or like even people in my family.

Oh, well I have this.

Okay.

But you don't get it.

Like it's, it's different.

It's completely different.

And so it was another layer of being unseen.

So what happened was it got really dark.

Like it got really dark.

I didn't want to live, I didn't have a plan.

I went up calling a friend of mine a few years ago, I guess it was like

three years ago on new year's Eve.

And we had worked in college at a crisis hotline.

We used to work together.

And I said to her, I'm calling you, I don't have a plan, but I

don't want to do this anymore.

Like, I really just, I can't, I can't do it anymore.

I can't live like this.

I don't know what to do.

I've tried all these things.

I've, I've tried, it's just not working.

It's not working.

And she listened to me and she was, you know, she got me down to a part where

I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look into this other protocol because I

feel like this is, this is gonna help me.

And something's telling me to do it.

So I did the DNRs training.

And before I, with Annie

hopper, do the in-person thing or did

you not do the in-person because it was so bad.

I couldn't travel.

I couldn't be in a car longer than a half hour.

I couldn't fly.

I couldn't.

So many

of the people that utilize that training are in that same boat too.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who can't go to a three day, four day,

five day workshop in some other cities.

I

couldn't even leave my house to go to the doctor.

You know, there was points where my mom would have to take me or my husband

had to take me, so to do that with so, but I knew I could get the DVDs.

And I had read her book.

I had read so many books by this point.

I would bring the books in and say, do you think we should try this?

You know, um, Dr.

Shoemaker's mold protocol because I live on an island and it's moldy all

of the time and our house had mold and I knew we had mold and we try to

remediate and it was still in my body.

And I mean, I went through the gamut of all this stuff.

I, you know, I meet all my friends from scratch.

I cut out all the chemicals.

I was still getting triggered by going outside of someone's who

laundry, or if someone sprayed Windex or someone was smoking a cigarette,

five cars ahead of me on the highway.

Um, and it was debilitating.

I, I couldn't, I couldn't leave.

I couldn't, I couldn't do anything.

So I thought, okay, this I'm going to have to do this in order to figure out,

to get my brain to a place where I can think rationally, because at that point

I couldn't even think rationally anymore.

And I was like, I don't know, And at that same point, I'd already

been listening to all these webinars and all these podcasts, reading all

these books, um, for years, right?

I had all these notes and all what I should do, and I chat all these things.

It didn't work.

And I, I wasn't really spiritual at that point.

And I didn't really understand the connection with emotions and spirit.

And you have to feel the heal.

I didn't understand any of that.

I heard it, but it wasn't resonating with me.

I wasn't at that point that I could absorb it.

And it got to the point where one day I was listening to, uh, Stephen Bonaire.

So he's an herbalist who wrote a bunch of books about you make your own

tinctures and you, you know, too with plant medicine, so utilize the power

of the plants to make plant medicine.

So plant medicine has been used for 15,000 years.

And if Dr.

Maya talks about this all the time, And all these different plants have

all of these different properties.

And I thought this was fascinating.

I've always gardened.

I've always loved growing things.

We grow our own vegetables and I realized all these plants I already had growing.

I can harvest for medicine.

And I was like, this is crazy.

And it reminded me of a book.

My grandma had been reading before she passed about plant medicine and, and

using it rather than all, you know, as a farmer of alternative medicine.

And she had written in the book and inscription, and

I was like, you know what?

I think this is the route I need to go.

And once I started doing that, I guess it was like three or four years ago.

Everything changed.

Everything shifted.

When I turned the power plant medicine.

When I started to study homeopathy, I had already been dabbling in essential

oils for 10 years before that, but I didn't really understand how.

I just knew like, okay, I did this and it, it did this, right.

It was like the pill for ill type thing.

But I didn't understand the energetics of it.

That was all energy medicine.

Then I found all these energy medicine practitioners.

So Dr.

Kim's you drama?

She was huge.

So a lot of her ideas and her techniques have worked well for me.

Um, Donna Eden, I follow, I do her energetic routine every day.

I had died tight.

She, when I was working and I would refer my clients to it, they thought I was

crazy because I was in my twenties and I was the youngest person in the Tyson.

I've been to Tai Chi classes.

And I've been the youngest person at one of them I've ever been to.

Yes.

Yes.

So they thought it was hysterical that I was there and I'm like, no,

I think there's something to it.

You can do it with me.

And then the teacher, I had known 10 years ago, she started doing it online.

So I started doing that with her again.

And once I understand that everything was energy, right.

Because 10 years ago, if you would've told me.

To use an oil to use, uh, this, you know, this liquid homeopathic

remedy, I would have thought you were talking about craziness.

Like it wasn't science to me.

I needed the science.

And then when I realized there was science to it, there was a lot of science

for thousands of years in signs on it.

I thought, this is, this is where I need to do.

This is where I need to go.

And once I did that, I also did the micro formulas protocol.

That was huge too, because it addresses healing at the foundational level.

So I will definitely give a big shout out to them.

That

was so core now.

Yes.

Well, so of course their practitioner line micro is the regular people line.

Yeah.

I have Salesforce here.

I am on self-worth too.

So core has more products in the line than microbe.

Gotcha.

Yes.

So I, I introduced my doctor to that and I was like, this is, this is a game changer.

This is actually working.

Like, I, I felt like I was dying and had no other options.

And I started doing this along with the energy medicine.

And I feel like there could be hope now.

So I started studying more about the plant medicine.

I started taking urbalism classes online.

I started reading a lot of urbalism books.

I started making my own medicine, which was very empowering.

It's a lot cheaper too, which is why I did it.

And it was incredible.

The differences were night and day.

And so I fully got behind it.

I started studying more about homeopathy.

I started making my own bombs because a lot of things on the

market were in adjusting my issues.

So I was able to meet.

My own formulations that were specific for my issues and it was

working and I thought this is great.

So then I would give them out to people for Christmas.

Like, yeah, I think you should use this.

It'll be good for you.

And people liked it.

And then I was like, yeah, yeah.

So I'm a back burn right now, but,

so what was that like when things started to kind of turn

the corner a little bit, Like what, how did you know you were feeling

better that if something was working,

I just felt it I'm like a spiritual level like

once I started actually tapping into that, which was huge.

Cause I didn't know to do it before.

I really made no wrong decisions, whereas before everything was

made decision out of fear.

Right.

Okay.

I'm just going to do this because I don't know what else to do.

And this is what everyone's telling me to do.

And this is what the research says, and this is what this

person said on this podcast.

So I'm just going to do that and maybe it'll work, right?

I'm going to hope it'll work.

I'm going to hope it'll work.

And it was that desperation, that manic energy, that managed healing,

rather than just going relaxing, listening to my body, trusting me, need

intelligence of my body, that it can heal.

It can rebalance.

You just have to give it what it needs.

And as you know, we get in the way, cause we think we know

better and we try to treat the body like a car that breaks down.

And it didn't work when I was going at that, when I was fighting it.

Right.

I thought, oh, but I have to fight this because if I don't fight

it, that means I'm giving up.

And I couldn't tell it was my life.

I couldn't fast.

I just kept fighting and fighting and fighting.

I have to fight to read this book.

I have to fight to listen to all these podcasts.

I have to fight to do this protocol and to, to, you know, to beat it, to beat

the, the conditions and submission.

I mean, at one point I had like 10 different diagnoses

that we were working on.

So then it always felt like you're chasing the dragon, right?

So you get one to kind of calm down and then another dragon pops up and

then that one kind of calms down.

And then the first dragon resurfaces, and it was a shitty way to live.

Like, cause you never knew when the other shoe was going to drop.

You never knew what you were going to be dealing with.

I mean, I'm still in it.

Like I'm definitely not out of it completely.

I'm in a lot better place than I ever was, but I still don't know

what I'll feel like tomorrow.

You know?

I mean, I still can sometimes push myself too much and I paid for it.

I still contend with the migraines.

I still have.

But now, rather than pushing through it, I listened to my body when

it first gives the message and I'm like, yeah, I need to stop.

Yeah.

I need to not do that.

I need to reprioritize.

I need to, you know, and if my husband doesn't have dinner tonight, oh wow.

It is what it is.

Like if there's something I can eat or if I'm not hungry, that's what it is.

Like, rather than feeling the guilt to please everybody, to be a certain person

for everybody to make everyone else happy.

I was dying because of it, because I had this, you know, I had to be this

certain person and to the world and

people pleasing,

probably speaking to everybody, that's listening to this.

So it taught me a lot about myself.

And initially when I first got sick, I said, I wouldn't

wish this on my worst enemy.

Right.

But this is an awful thing.

It's horrible.

I probably said that for the first five.

And then the more I started to get as the energy medicine and

plant medicine, it started to shift DNRs, I think again, right.

The brain fog wasn't debilitating.

And I could kind of have rational thought process and the DNR.

Um, I do aspects of it.

I, I do more of Dr.

Kim's techniques now because it's, to me, it's, it's more manageable.

The DNRs is great, but it's, I feel like if I were to refer it to people,

the time commitment, especially if you don't feel good is a lot.

And I know

that's the one catch for a lot of people.

I know it has to be like minimum 30 minutes a day, preferably 61 90.

Yeah.

Some people do it for 30 and still.

Yeah.

So I wasn't that person I had to do the hour and even the hour,

I still had to sometimes do more.

And.

So I checked the, what I, the way I treat myself now, because essentially I'm, I

treat myself I'm work under my doctor, but I've been treating myself for the

past few years is what resonates with me.

So I take aspects of DNRs that resonates with me.

I take aspects of your Veda.

I take aspects of traditional Chinese medicine.

I take aspects of urbalism homeopathy, whatever resonates with me.

And I check in with myself like, okay, what do you want me to do?

What do you think is going to help body?

Like, you know, I still eat really clean.

I still make my own food.

I don't eat out.

You know, I don't have that luxury.

There's really nowhere to eat here.

We have one restaurant, but it's kind of pricey.

So we'd go for special occasions and, you know, I'm able to get

somewhat of my life back now.

I am still really careful with what I do and I'm still really.

Structured compared to most people of how I live my life.

You know, we don't use any chemicals in our house.

We don't do a lot of things that people do that are normal.

Like I haven't drank since I got married 10 years ago, because I just

cannot metabolize alcohol, you know?

And, and that's a lot of our social experience is that you go out, you drink

with your friends, you go out to eat.

So I don't do that.

So I've lost a lot of people that I thought were friends.

That was a hard part of the journey as well is you realize

really what's important.

Who's actually there for you and who you really are.

Right.

So the person I am now, I like a lot better than the

person was before I got sick.

And I would now say the last few years I would do it over again because the

lessons I learned from it are huge.

And now I realize what I'm meant to do with.

Rather than what I thought I was supposed to do.

So even though my life does not look like what I thought it would be, and

I'm not doing what I thought I would be doing, I feel like the work and the

knowledge I have now is so much more important for the world we live in.

And for all the people that are going through this, that it's,

it makes, it makes it worthwhile.

So I feel like this whole journey was for a reason, as much as it was.

Really shitty.

And you don't want to hear that when you're in it.

Like people would always say stuff to us when Mira was really sick or when I was

really depressed or whenever somebody is really struggling, like, oh, you

know, you're going to come out of this in some sort of improved way, or you're

going to learn something from this.

And I was always just like, shut up.

I hate you.

Like, I don't want you all to die.

Just stop saying those things, because I want this to stop because

he always just wanted to stop.

Like he just wanted it to stop or whatever.

Yeah.

And it's not built that way, unfortunately.

And yeah, it's been through, you know, our hardest times with all that stuff

that, you know, the first flare she had.

We were able to get it under control pretty easily and just had to like tighten

up her diet and do a couple other things.

And the second one was more severe and longer.

And we had to go to like deeper levels of stuff that she needed to do.

And then this last one was like a year long and really terrifying and really

horrible, and then went into, you know, energetics and trauma things and stuff

that like we weren't doing before that.

And it's always like another level.

And for me, when I, when I got really depressed, I tried the diets and then

I was trained in functional medicine.

I tried the supplements, I tried the things and like I did it didn't work.

And so I was forced to like, explore different levels of things, which

is now where I'm moving my whole like work and career and business.

And all of that is more in that scope because like you can get marginally

better with like switching a diet or like reducing stress is huge.

And like there's a difference between like reducing exposure to stress

and then improving your ability to handle and tolerate stress and

manage stress two totally different things both need to be done.

But then, but then there's this other level that you touch on a little bit

with like your spirituality and your intuition and energetics, and like I'm

somebody that three years ago, if you said an energy healing to me, I was like

out the door, like baby, who is nonsense.

Now I've been in like a really high level of energy training for two years.

And so my perspective is a little different than it

was, it was witnessing it.

That got me on board that got me to want to do the training.

They got me now I understand it a lot better, but like it was

witnessing somebody do something that I didn't think was possible.

Right?

Like this type of work that I was like, this is hooey, this is nonsense.

And then watching what happened and then being like, huh,

that just flipped everything.

I thought I knew in my head, how do you do that?

And then now learning how to do that.

Everything really just truly is energy.

Like it really is.

And that was where medicine was before pharmaceuticals.

And so there was like a split and we followed the money

and that's where it went.

And certain people, one that split and that's where we went.

Yeah.

And that's where we went pharmaceuticals over energy as medicine and, you know,

things like Qigong and Tai Chi and Chinese medicine and acupuncture and these

things like they've known it forever and indigenous and native cultures know that.

And that's how they work too.

And it's all.

Yeah, it's, there's plenty, plenty of research that I was blown away to

find on, you know, on, on different aspects of energy and things that in.

Western culture.

We tend to turn away from, um, but there's way more science

to it than I thought there was.

There's wait a minute.

You get into quantum physics and neuroscience and all kinds of

it gets it's pretty undeniable.

When you look at the bigger picture of it, it just doesn't fit our medical model.

So it always gets food, food away,

but, and you, you know, they think you can't make money off it, right?

So plant medicine can grow your own plants.

You can make your own medicine.

Where's the money in that?

Yeah.

We're entirely driven by the medical systems entirely driven by, by that.

And so is most of our psoas, most of things like most things and

studies are very expensive to run.

Like I know cat tubes pretty well, who did recently finished a study with Dr.

Dale Bredesen reversing dementia and Alzheimer's in people and it costs,

I think it was a million and a half dollars to do a study with 20 people.

Yeah.

And now they got funding to triple the size of that.

They got a $5 million grant to now do 60 people.

Drug companies do studies with like thousands of people in them, right?

Because they can spend millions and millions and millions of dollars

and people will fund this because if they get a certain result, which

is manageable, uh, then they get more money and then they can sell.

They just put out a drug for Alzheimer's just last week, that

$60,000 a year, I think can take it.

And three people at the FDA quit over it getting approved.

And they have a pretty low bar at the FDA for like what their morals are at.

And so for three people over there to quit, because something was

corrupt is like pretty damn extreme.

And it's 60 grand a year to use a drug that marginally sort of works.

If it's a certain population, like, yeah, it's all, it's all money.

And so.

And that's how I took it back is that time became

empowered as I did it for myself.

Right.

So I wasn't relying on the medical model anymore because I I don't have

any calms out saying I lost hope in it.

And I not really think it's going to get back.

Emergency medicine is completely different.

You know, I cut off my arm, I'll go to the hospital for sure.

But anything else was chronic pain or chronic conditions.

It, it completely failed and it completely failed me.

And it completely found a bunch of people.

I mean, even recently, like my pre-diabetes turn into

type two diabetes, right.

Even though I, I eat a really good diet, I don't eat processed food.

I eat quality meat and protein and organic vegetables.

And I cheated it with homeopathics.

My doctor was bored.

She wanted me to go to metaphor and I'm like, absolutely not.

I'm going to treat this my way.

And if it doesn't work in six months, we'll readdress.

But between homeopathic and some other changes, you know, I don't believe

there's one magic pill for everybody.

Even with alternative treatment.

There is no, there's no quick fix.

I hate to tell people there's no quick fix.

I used to tell my patients when I worked at them, there's no magic pill.

Not every diet works for every person.

I mean, I've been on a lot of different diets.

I do what works best for me.

And that's what I think is the most important part is people have to

realize that they have to reconnect with themselves on a higher level.

Yeah.

You mentioned listening to like knowing when you're overstepped

or when you've, you're too extended or you're too tired or things like

that, your body will have science.

Like you'll get messages.

You'll feel a certain way.

You might feel a little bit and our tendency and what we're

taught to do is push through that.

And if you don't, something's wrong with you and if you complain about

it or you tell somebody I can't do something, then you're letting

them down or you're weak, or this.

And I have witnessed with Mira and my own stuff.

My my struggles have been more like mental, emotional, spiritual, not

physical I've somehow miraculously not really had any health issues

considering I did everything I could to destroy my body for about 15 years.

It's very resilient.

So I'm grateful there, but with her, the signals will get louder when you don't

listen to them until they will haul to it.

And that's where Gabor's book.

I mentioned before we came on, uh, when the body says, no, that's the

whole premise of the book is like, when you get to a certain point,

it's just going to say no for you.

And that can show up as an auto-immune conditions.

It can show up as cancer.

It can show up as chronic fatigue syndrome.

It can show up as a lot of different things.

Debilitating depression will shut you down really quickly.

Like, and so connecting to the.

That knowing the knowing and the subtle sensations it gets it's I don't need

the pain to be at a tend to notice it.

I'll notice it when it's starting to creep in to be a one.

And then it's like, okay, weird.

That doesn't feel good.

I need to rest the rest of the way and take care of

myself and do what feels good.

Like, um, mirror started doing this thing when she comes home from work.

It's just like toning, like, uh, like sound like, no, just with her, with her

own, like, just like a sound like that.

And she, no one taught her to do that.

No one told her to do that.

It just, when she would come home from a shift in the ER, she would lay down and

put her hand on her chest and do that.

And I'd say, what are you doing?

You say I'm vibrating.

And I don't know, it feels good for my body and like, starting to learn,

like, it feels good for my body and trusting that and not needing to be

told, like, by someone that you need to do this, like that, wasn't something.

Like I've learned if I want her to try something or do something.

The last thing I should do is like, tell her to do it.

Yeah.

Maybe like leave a book about it on the table, but don't, um, don't say

you need to do this, or you should do this because after you've been

through the ringer with the medical institutions and people invalidating

you and telling you what to do and all these things, like that's not helpful.

And people offer you suggestions, have you tried this?

Right?

Like you haven't tried everything and then some,

yeah.

And they're usually like 19 steps ago for you.

Like, they're like something you tried like seven years ago is their cutting edge

thing that they just read an article about

or something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it was just like in the paper.

Right.

But we knew about it 15 years ago.

Yeah.

So that, yeah, that that's been hard for me too, is just trying to

figure out how to talk to people in a way that does not shame them.

Right.

And cause more internal trauma for them.

And in a way that can make.

Accessible for everybody because unfortunately I fear that it's already an

epidemic now auto-immune so even if you're not aware that you have something going

on, your body's already feeling it, right.

5g, the EMS, the poor diet, the toxins, heavy metals, all that,

your body's already feeling it or hurting, trying to cope.

And it's not.

So these people may be failing after we've already fallen down the hole.

So that's something I try to think about.

Well, how would I explain this to somebody who has no idea that their

body's already experiencing this?

You know, how would I make it so that they understand that these small changes.

We'll make big differences and yeah, it may not completely reverse everything,

but, you know, do you want a cast or,

oh, it's just a million small changes.

It's changing the way that you relate to yourself and your body

and like the whole situation.

And so many times to chronic diseases, the body becomes the enemy and here's that,

and it knows that that's not what we need.

Like it's always doing its best at a hundred percent of the time, like all

the time and the messages you're getting in the symptoms you're getting are

like the light turning on in your car.

And if we just turn the light off in the car all the time,

the car will explode, right?

So like you need the signals, you need the warnings, you need

the symptoms and it's not fair.

And it's not, I think the most frustrating thing, at least for

her is when, like there's other people that do tons of stuff that.

Well, like that way worse than any, like she's always eaten pretty clean.

She never really drank a lot.

She never part, like our backgrounds are very, very different.

I'm the one that did all the things over her.

Perfect for me.

And she's not, and she's the one that's been really sick and I'm not,

and there's like a resentment there, not towards me, but towards life.

Like, why does this happen to me?

Why is this me?

These people are all out drinking and doing all these things.

Like if she went out for like two nights in a row and party

until two in the morning and like whole, like, I don't even know.

I don't even know what would happen.

Like it would be catastrophic yet.

That's like most people's lives.

And like, there's this like attachment to wanting to be normal.

And our normal sucks.

Like our normal is just not good and healthy and it's

not something to attain to.

The, one of my favorite quotes is like, I don't remember exactly how it

goes, but it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a sick society.

Exactly.

And so like, it's.

The things that I thought I was missing out on when I shifted my

whole life about like social things and going out and all those things,

and that lasted for a little while.

Like there was this foam on for awhile, and then I was like, man, you couldn't pay

me to go somewhere at 10 o'clock at night.

Now I'm like, are you kidding?

Like, if somebody was like, Hey, I'll meet you there at 10.

I'd be like in the morning.

Or like, what?

Like, there is no place I'm going at 10 o'clock at night.

Like that's just not going to happen because I'll feel like hell the next day.

And like, that's not worth it to me anymore.

So yeah, just people can respect those decisions.

And if you know somebody in your life that's dealing with chronic

disease, like just be mindful of this.

This is the world they live in.

Like this that's the,

is there every day, you know, the ability, the fatigue, like,

you know, you see all this thing about the COVID long haulers, right?

These people are suffering people in the autoimmune community have been

suffering like that for so long.

And there's no money towards the research for fatigue.

Finally, Dr.

Tim bomb, he's a big fatigue doctor.

I'm sure.

You know, He finally got research money for, for fatigue research.

It took him like 40 years to get substantial money from

the athletes to do research on fatigue only because of, because

there's not going to be a pill there.

Right.

The reason they got the money is probably because they think there's going to

maybe be some sort of crossover between what he was doing and then some sort of

treatment for either COVID or something else or something that they'll be

able to turn into a drug or like some something, cause chronic fatigue syndrome

is not going to be treated with a drug.

So that's why it doesn't get attention

and treated with a drug.

Cause they give it to people with fibromyalgia.

They give you.

Yeah, but the thing, I mean, LDN is more effective than that,

but there's like, um, chronic fatigue is just a very loud shutting down of the.

And it's

and it's throughout a lot of conditions, right?

I think there's this misnomer.

And it's also been vilified as a psychological issue when the data shows

that it is a very physical issues.

That's another issue in this community is that you're told you're crazy a lot.

And I, and I was from that background and to be told, like, just go, just go

to back to therapy, just take a pill.

Wow.

This is how we treat people

like millions of people.

Like most, most people, that's how we, that's how we treat them chronically ill

for anything that's a medical system.

Doesn't have an answer for.

So it's yeah, it's maddening.

And it, the funny thing about it's in your head goes full circle.

They say it's in your head and then you're like, screw you.

My symptoms are physical.

And then what we realize when we go further down, it is it's, it's

not in our head, but it's in our, like being, and it's the, yeah, but

it's the mind, it's the emotions.

It's the trauma.

It's the things which technically there is a psychological component there,

but the, the in your head part that they mean is not the, in your head.

Part of the reality is the thing it's like 20 levels to

shallow, but that's because we only do the physical

and the mental components.

There is no spiritual and emotion component in our society.

And that was what was lacking in my care as well.

And I, it took me having to get that skill set for myself.

There was nobody there doing it for me.

And I think that that's, that's the huge disconnect is that they don't look at it

as a whole, even in the functional arena.

A lot of those doctors don't have the time or the skillset, or they

don't have someone in their office.

Who's trained in that.

To teach people energy healing work.

They could do themselves.

You know, like I taught myself the body codes.

Um, you know, I, I just had a

meeting with Brad Nelson yesterday.

Oh yeah.

How funny their stuff on the new platform.

Oh,

that's great.

And you know, like the other things you were saying about the

HMI, you know, so I do energy.

I was doing it before actually actually started our podcast to try to get myself

back into my body and to be connected so that I could be fully on for this.

Right.

And give, give the best version of what I want to give.

And so that I could speak from the heart and, and be able to resonate with the

community so that they know that I get it.

I'm living it still.

I'm not out of it.

Right.

It doesn't really ever end changes and you have to change with it because it's just

another layer that you're appealing back.

There's something else you have to learn.

In the past, I'd get really angry.

Like what now?

Like, what am I doing with now?

Why is this, what am I not learning?

What is happening here now?

I, I I've learned do the work I've done.

That's not helpful.

Right?

Just as a form of self hate, like I'm just getting mad at myself again.

So I've been doing the whole opponent prayer for a few years.

That helped as well.

That, I'm sorry, please forgive me.

Thank you.

I love you.

And I substitute people in my life who were, you know, hurt me and

rather than say, I love you to them.

I say, I forgive you because it may be hard to say, I love you

to these people that hurt us.

Right.

Or even to ourselves.

So I forgive you.

And that was, that was huge part of my healing as well.

But it it's a whole moving machine.

It's not just one component.

So it's not just the diet.

It's not just the supplements.

Yeah, I wish we had an easier, simpler, faster, more, more,

easy answer for you, but it really is.

It's simple in that it's like once you see the whole picture, it's like,

of course all those things matter.

Like it, can't not matter like energetically, like, you know, how

you feel different when you go in a room of certain types of people or

you're in this place or you're in the forest for me, like it shifts

the entire way that my body feels.

And like, that's just as real of a thing as having a headache or having whatever.

And we just need to see it as that and be able to learn to hear that

and feel that and acknowledge that and make decisions based on that too.

Like, oh, I'm not feeling this, uh, thing, this isn't for me.

And like to trust that, but when you're told that your opinion is,

or your experiences and valid for like years and years and years to

like regain that trust of your own experience is super empowering.

Like it's, it's a total shift.

This is true.

What's happening to me is real.

It's true.

It's happening.

This is true.

I know what it's like.

I know it.

And other people see it now and it's real.

And, but learning that, that doesn't matter.

Like the other people can't validate it for

you.

Exactly.

And their opinions are none of your business right before with Dr.

Kim.

What's been huge as she says, to live through your heart.

Right?

So from your heart, rather than your brain, Dr.

Kim, dear Damo, he's in Colorado.

So she says,

you told me I

needed to talk to her.

She's amazing.

She's, she's amazing I always get dabbling into it before I was introduced to her.

And I just, I found her on a podcast or something.

Right.

It was just the universe, bring her to me.

And then once I started listening to what she had to say, and so how real she

was, she overcame her own health as well.

Um, It was like it connected, right?

It just felt ranked.

So that's what I, my most important tip is to the people in this group

is to go with what feels good for you, because what feels good

for me may not feel good for you.

What feels good for Michael May not feel good for you, but to go with

what feels good for you to reconnect with that innate intelligence of your

body, the innate intelligence, that's always been there, even if you're not

spiritual and you can't connect to the higher power or the universe or

archangels, or, you know, whatever you do.

Like I pull an Oracle card.

That's how I connect and ask how I should, you know, what I should do with things.

Um, there's so many different ways that you can connect, you know, sound healing.

There's so many different modalities where you can find a spiritual

connection without having to go.

Somebody makes you uncomfortable.

It's a practice too, right?

It comes, you build up on it with what you're comfortable with and,

and more will be introduced to you.

Because it's all connected.

So what you'll need, you need to know what we brought to you.

I'm a firm believer in that because

yeah.

You just gotta be open to listening and hearing it and not trusting.

You're like hit on it.

Like, yeah, this is good.

Or this isn't good.

And

my thing is, if he's here at three times, like if someone says to me

to me three times, like, oh yeah, okay.

I'm going to read that.

Dr.

Kim that's about the 10th time somebody brought it up somewhere.

So I should probably, uh,

kind of the book is a quick read and it's really,

it's the mind body, soul kit.

It's really.

I, I think I have it bookmarked I'm on her website at Dr.

Kim Deramo.

Okay.

Mind, body toolkit.

Yep.

I will make a note to, I

think that a lot of free resources that people, and she does

a three, uh, like webinar every week on her site and on Facebook.

I don't know.

I recommend her a lot.

Like I started the Facebook group to teach people about the power of the plants and

I, I post her videos cause I feel like,

cool.

Can we link your Facebook group under the podcast?

All right.

I'll get the link from you.

So if you're watching, I'll put her website on here too, because why not?

So we'll, we'll get Dr.

Kim's website down below.

We'll get your Facebook group.

And then anything else you want to share with us that we've mentioned

that you think would be worth?

We can send DNRs website.

Yeah.

Micro formulas, I think would be helpful too, because it's a foundational protocol.

And that was the one that I feel has helped a lot of people because

I did so many protocols before that.

And it was.

So what's great about that protocol is they have videos every week, right?

And so the doctors come on or, you know, affiliates that work with

them, come on and they educate, it's an educational platform.

You can create an account it's free and it's not just Willy nilly.

You take these things.

But again, I listened to my body with it.

I did not take it at school recommendation.

I took it at half and I've still never gotten up to, I mean, some

people are dosing really high.

That's not for me.

And I know that.

And some people learn the hard way in the past.

I've learned the hard way, but that's the only protocol I did

that I did not get sick around.

So.

I would definitely recommend that.

Good to know.

We're looking at bringing in some of their bar products into our shop.

Um, it's just, it's tough.

Cause it's like, there's so core protocols or like a zillion products that they

recommend you do all these things.

And so we're trying to figure out which ones we could,

well the drainage products, like the limp and the two Duca, anybody

can take those cause they adjust drainage.

Right.

And a lot of people in this group have an issue with drainage.

So either they're not pooping every day or they have so much crap in their

body and their potty can't get it out.

Right.

So the first phase is drainage.

So the lymphoma to Duca would be the, would be I think the best

products to start with because they address drainage and they'll

start opening things up for people.

Those are the ones I take consistently.

I don't take all of the products consistently anymore

because I energetically, I don't feel that I need them.

I would did it for three years.

So, you know, that's another thing is just.

You have to trust yourself, right?

Like that, you know, better than anybody else, you know, better than I know you,

you know, better than the doctor knows you, you know, what's best for you.

So just remember that you have that knowledge, you just have to tap

back into it because we've been taught that we don't know better.

The doctors know better.

Everyone else knows better, but you, right.

Your mom knows better.

Your husband knows that.

Especially

for people who've been sick since they were young

and got disregarded invalidated.

And all of that, it's been years of that our mind will believe

exactly.

So, you know, better, you know, best.

Remember that connects to that again.

We're about at time, this was great.

I think that you gave people a really solid glimpse into like

what, what it really is like to go through the ringer with.

Mystery chronic disease and frustration around doctors and not being validated

and not understanding what's going on and trying a million different things and

healing as like a, I could just feel your frustration when you talked about like

how regimented you were and how structured everything was and how it wasn't working.

And you were trying all these things.

And it was like, uh, I know what that's like, and it's like

a full-time 24 hour a day job.

That's exhausting.

And, um, and it's like panic inducing and it it's, it's, it's,

I'm never going to get better.

This is always going to be like this because you lose the ability to see

outside of the immediate bubble of hell that you're in and it's confusing

and you don't trust anything.

So like, I think that the lessons you learned in that journey are really

beneficial for everybody to hear.

And I think that that's what we're really looking for is to bring that to people,

to hear that, you know, That coming back to being able to read and listen to the

singles and the signs and trust that, and that there's deeper levels to this.

Like I know that we've taught in this platform mostly around, um,

diet and lifestyle and supplements and like nutrition things.

And that there's a whole nother level to this that, um, you know, I'm building

with, uh, with another platform to bring over there to kind of connect the two.

But, um, Most people stop there.

And a lot of people that's going to limit your ability to heal.

So the energetic, the trauma, the spiritual, the emotional side of

things is what moves the needle for a lot of people when they're stuck.

And it also shifts how you experience the struggle to begin with, which then

reduces the stress signals on the body.

Like it's a, it starts a chain reaction that only good things will come from.

So I would recommend diving.

No, it's not an, it causes you to face a lot of things to that

is fine.

Yeah.

You have to face your demons.

But in doing that, you learn so much more about yourself and

it makes it so much more work.

Well, thank you so much, Amy.

I was really, you know, I appreciate the openness and vulnerability

that you shared everything with.

I'm sure that over time, some of this stuff has become easier to talk about,

but I know that, um, for a while, it's, it's really challenging to

even talk about some of these things.

Cause it's super triggering to bring up like where you were and people not

hearing you and not listening to you.

And when I brought that up, I could like feel the charge.

Like you're just like, yeah.

And then they told me I was crazy.

And like, and, and there's so much anger there and there's parts of

us when we go through that type of stuff that needs to be validated.

Like they need to hear that like your experience was true

and that really happened.

And I'm sorry that that happened and that people should have treated you like that.

And if you've never heard that, that can be a really powerful thing for

people just to get that validation.

So I just want to.

Commend you on sharing so openly.

And so many people benefit just from hearing that they're not alone, like

going through this stuff that it's not just them, that they're not the

only ones and that, um, you know, we'll link your Facebook group down

below so people can come find you over

there.

Yeah.

I would love that.

Cool.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

It was great to meet you and to chat with you.