Angie Stegall is a Wayfinder and an award-winning author of five books. Wayfinding is a term Angie uses to describe the work she does with people - usually business owners and other professionals. Wayfinding is about finding out who you are, what do you really want, and how will you get from where you are to where you want to be.

In our conversation we talked about her work, and we talked about the Forest Bathing experience that she offers to her clients. It is a way of being out in nature to get quiet, to go inside and experience your surroundings with all of your senses and to really get in touch with some of your inner most truths.

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Welcome to the heyboomer podcast, the show that inspires people to know that you are never too old to set another goal or dream a new dream. Each week we have extraordinary guests, thought leaders and active, engaged adults who share their insights with us.

This week, my guest was Angie Steagall, wayfinder and someone who leads us on forest bathing with her wayfinding work. Angie works with business owners to help them really get to their truth, to figure out what is their best and highest use of their time.

And forest bathing is one of the experiences that she offers to her clients.

It is a time to go out into nature, to get quiet, to experience what is around you, to feel with all of your senses and to hear some of your inner thoughts and get some clarity. I really enjoyed this conversation with Angie. I hope you will as well. My name is Wendy Greene and I am your host for hey Boomer.

Hello. Hey Boomer listeners from chilly, rainy Greenville, South Carolina. I hope everybody had a wonderful weekend.

And although today, at least, in Greenville, may not be the day that you want to be out in the forest, I want you to think back for a moment with me to a time that you've been sitting by a mountain stream and realized that you've become mesmerized by. By the sound of the water, by the colors around you, by the smell of the forest and the smell of the wet rocks.

And that can be a very peaceful moment when you realize that. And in today's world, that seems like it has really speeded up.

Even during the pandemic, I find myself feeling sometimes like I'm running out of time to do the things I want to do, the things I need to do. And don't get me wrong, I love what I am doing.

But I also know that taking a time out and stopping to smell the roses, take a walk, get centered again, is so important for my sanity. Today, our guest, Angie Stegall is going to talk to us about something called wayfinding and forest bathing.

These may be terms that you have not heard before. I know I had not heard these terms before when I first met Angie. And some of the ideas may be new to you, some of them may totally resonate with you.

And I really encourage you, especially for this broadcast, to sit back, take a few deep breaths, relax, and take in this information that Angie has to share with us about calming and connecting with yourself and with the world around you. Before I bring Angie on, though, I want to talk to you about two sponsors that we have.

Our show today is partly sponsored by the Fearless Leader Program. If you want to get your business, your life or your career back on track, the Fearless Leader program.

It's an eight week program and it's facilitated by my friend Kathy McAfee. It is 100% virtual and it is 100% empowering.

And I know this to be true because I am just finishing up an eight week program with Kathy of the Fearless Leader and I have to tell you, it has been beyond my expectations.

The information that I have received, the resources I have received, the people that I have connected with in the group, it has really broadened my thinking and it has provided me with resources that I can use going forward for a long time.

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It really is.

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One more thing before I go. Sorry, Angie. If you would like to get a Monday morning email with a reminder of where the show is, you know where the link is for the show.

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And you will get one other email during the week and that will be when I publish my blog. So no other spam problem. Promise? Promise. Okay. With that, I would like to bring Angie on. Hi Angie.

Hello.

Thank you for joining us today.

Thanks for having me.

You are welcome. Let me give a brief introduction. Okay. Before we get to the questions.

Okay.

So Angie Steagall is a wayfinder. She is an award winning author of five books and we're going to learn more about wayfinding and forest bathing during our conversation.

She has spoken to groups at Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina, Mass Mutual Insurance, the the Western Women's Business Center Annual Conference, and many more. She has been interviewed by the New York Times.

.

Personally, Angie is an avid flatwater kayaker, a hiker. A hiker, a camper. And she and her husband Nelson have a dog named Calvin and a cat named Hobbs.

Yay.

So, Angie, thank you for joining us today.

Thank you so much for having me. I am delighted to be here with your community and with you.

Oh, thanks. So you just got back from an extended getaway and that's something that you incorporate into your lifestyle as I understand it.

So help me understand how this kind of travel supports the work that you do.

Yeah, so travel is one of my core values. It's a strange core value to have, but it is one of my core values. And travel has been a big part of my life since my early 20s.

And I need, and I'm going to use that word really deliberately. Deliberately. I need to get away from my business and from my regular life on a regular basis. Long weekend trips are great. Week long trips are great.

But these extended trips that I do that are three weeks or four weeks at a time really help me as a person because it unplugs me from my regular life. It helps me as a business owner both to just get away from my business for a while. I love my clients, I really do. I love the work that I do.

It's a such fantastic. But burnout, overwork and overwhelm are things that I talk about with my clients.

And so modeling, getting away from the regular everyday grind is really, it's a self leadership skill and it's one that I practice and it's one that I teach and it helps me expand my boundaries. Especially this most recent trip that I did.

It helps me find my edges, like the edges of places that I'm comfortable, places that scare me, new skills. It reminds me of how skilled I am in some cases. So extended trips are beautiful.

And just in case people are curious, this trip that I just did with my husband and two friends and our ages range, I'm 48 and Clyde, who was another one of our participants, he was almost 60. We all just kayaked across Georgia and Florida. So it was 340 miles, two rivers, one swamp, from the Atlantic Ocean all the way to the Gulf of Mexico.

Wow. So you were completely unplugged then. You didn't have email or phone or any of that.

So it's still, it's still Florida for the most part and it's a pretty urban place. So there were places that we did not have cell service. There were places that we couldn't check our email, but for the most part we posted.

We called it the Great Florida Traverse. And then we put a group together on Facebook so people could follow our journey.

And we posted almost every day and put up pictures and told stories and the places that we didn't have service, probably of the 23 days that we were out, we probably had five days where we didn't have service. So yeah.

Wow. What an experience though, to allow yourself, like you said, self leadership to allow yourself that time. That's awesome.

There were days when we were cold. There were days when we were uncomfortable. There were a few days when I was scared.

We had some swift water that we weren't expecting because of the level of the river. And we were in 17 foot long sea kayaks and swift water on a river with trees in the middle of the river and quick decision making.

That really tested my skills. And I learned that I'm a very capable paddler and. And I did, I did okay. It was scary, but I did okay.

Right. And when you come out the other side, it's one of those.

Yes, I Did I can do hard things. That's what it felt like.

Yeah.

Good for you. Good for you.

And it's another lesson learned now that you can share with your clients.

Exactly. Yeah. We can all do hard things. Even when we're scared, we can still do hard things.

So true. So true. So you use it with your clients. You use a methodology called wayfinding.

Yeah.

Okay. I have. You know, I'm a trained coach as well, but never heard of wayfinding.

So can you give us a little understanding of what that methodology is like?

Yeah.

So I am a certified Martha Beck wayfinder life coach, and Martha Beck is the one who I first heard using the term wayfinder, and she added that into her program in the last couple of years. And wayfinding is really about figuring out what you want inside what your truth is.

So when I talk about truth, a lot of times I'll say capital T. Or there's a little T. This is a capital T, truth. And it sounds like, what is the best and highest use of your time, Especially if you're a business owner for real. You can do all the things.

Business owners are super talented. They are great multitaskers in a lot of cases. They're very smart. They can figure things out.

But just because we can do everything doesn't mean that we should. So what is actually in your business, the best and highest use of your time?

But at a deeper level, it's also, but what do you want to be doing in your business and in your life if you're not doing what you want to be doing? How can we re engineer your business, your life, both so that you are doing what you want to be doing?

It's also asking the question, but how does this work for you? And my most recent client that signed on said, I'm always hearing you ask that question, Angie, and nobody else asks me that.

And so I want to work with you because there's a lot of things that are happening that I keep asking the question, but does this really work for me? Does this really make me happy?

And then finally, what's best for you when you remove what I call tribal influences, Meaning we are all part of a tribe, right? We have family, we have relatives, we have community, we have religion, we have school. We have all those things.

Things, when we remove all of that noise, what is really best for you?

And wayfinding really helps you unpack and unload and unpeel all of those layers of cultural conditioning to get down to, like, the core of who you really are. What you really love what serves you the best, and then we take little tiny turtle steps to get you there.

It sounds fabulous, you know, and it sounds hard. It sounds like it's hard work because like you said, there's so many layers to get through.

And I would imagine, Angie, that it's kind of scary for some of your clients to look really what's right for me, because everybody else says it should be this.

Right.

How do you do that?

A lot of my clients find me when they're ready. They find me when they're ready. Someone refers them to me and says, you know, I've worked with Angie, or I know someone who's worked with Angie.

And it sounds like, you know, the traditional business coach coach who's really into goal setting or who's really into future casting. You know, this is. This is not that. What you need is something that is slower and more personal. So in a weird way, I'm kind of.

Kind of like a life coach for business owners.

And that sounds really strange, but most of the time when I work with my business owners, business owners, we're not talking about financials and operations and scaling and those sorts of things. That's not. That's not what interests me. What interests me is how happy are you in your business? And we'll. We'll talk about this, I'm sure.

But forest bathing is one of the ways to help somebody slow down and to help somebody get to that vulnerable place of saying out loud the thing that they've been resisting saying out loud for a long time. And it can be like serious work, hard work, vulnerable work, and not everybody's ready for that. So.

Yeah, yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense. And you brought up forest bathing, so jump in. What is forest bathing?

The Japanese term, and I will mess this up because I don't speak Japanese, but the Japanese term is shinrin yoku, and it literally means taking in the atmosphere of the forest. So forest bathing is really about quiet stillness and presence and whether you're literally in a forest. And Japan has some. I think.

I can't remember the exact number. The Japanese have actually created these forests, forests that are specifically for forest bathing.

Oh, they have guided trails, and they have placards that give you invitations. And so when I take somebody out, forest bathing, we are going to engage all six of your senses.

And I know there are typically five senses, but I also work in the woo woo realm of the Sixth sense, where you're sensing what is going on around you. Forest bathing is not a nature walk. We don't care about the official scientific names of the plants and the animals and the trees that we're around.

Forest bathing is literally stillness, presence and quiet. You go out into the forest to meet yourself.

You go out into the forest to meet the trees and connect with the trees, to connect with the plants and the dirt and the atmosphere in a way that is incredibly healing. There's lots of scientific benefits. I can go into them if you're interested. There's tons of scientific benefits about practicing this.

And in such a busy, noisy, fast world, getting still, getting quiet and being present to nature and yourself is incredibly important. That's another one of the self leadership skills that I would talk about.

All right, so here I am feeling like I'm busy all the time, sometimes running on a hamster wheel, but, you know, mostly enjoying what I'm doing. And I'm thinking about, you know, going forest bathing with you.

I know in the past, Angie, I have been able to get out in the forest and, you know, recognize how huge it is, how small I am. You know, I kind of appreciate that.

But I think now it would take me a long time to just slow down enough, you know, I would almost feel like I'm on a mission. Okay, so here I am, I've got to slow down and I've got it done. I mean, what am I going to get out of it?

How am I going to take this calmness back with me?

People who have been forest bathing with me, my, my only intention for them is to settle into the stillness and the quiet and the presence. And I tell them, I just want you to be here now. And most of my forest bathing programs are two to three hours in length.

And without my asking them to set an intention, without my asking them to feel or see or hear or smell anything, to just be still, be quiet, be present with me for two to three hours. They have reported independently that they've gone home and have slept better for several days than they have in months.

They report going home and feeling more calm for the day or for the week. They report having more patience with themselves and with other people. They report feeling just in a better mood in general.

And so there's nothing that you have to do and there's nothing really that I have to do other than create the space where you can create this space to go out and be quiet and still and present.

So no attention. So I like that. I like that. So we're getting a few comments. Dara says the Brevard branch of AAUW had a zoom program on forest bathing some months ago.

She believes Angie was the presenter. Yes, she was Doris. And that's how I heard about Angie. Was Doris said, oh, you've got to get this person on your show.

Kathy says nature has tremendous healing powers. And then she asked the question, is it like mindfulness meets nature?

Nature, yes. That's a really good description. Yes, it is. Mindfulness, Right. Stillness, presence to the moment you're in. Being mindful of where your feet are.

Being mindful of what's around you. Just being mindful of the thoughts, the monkey mind. And being mindful of just noticing. Oh, my gosh.

If I sit out here, my monkey mind, my thoughts start running away.

But the longer I sit here and I'm mindful of my breath and I'm mindful of my butt sitting on this rock, and then I notice, oh, I hear the birds chirping. I hear the stream running. Oh, my gosh. Now I'm mindful. I can smell the water. That's weird. I've never done that before. Oh, my gosh.

I noticed that the forest, when I got here, just sounded like a cacophony of noise. And now I don't hear anything. Oh. And I sit here a little longer, and now I hear everything. I hear all the birds. Oh, I hear the squirrels.

In fact, I can hear the squirrels before I see the squirrels. Right. So there's this thing that happens as you let yourself.

You give yourself permission to settle in and be mindful just where you are with no intention other than just to be here now.

Nice. Ted says this is what he's been doing for the last seven and a half years with his walking in the forest.

And he never came up with a great description. Now he can name it something Mindful Forest bathing.

That's right.

Yeah. And, Kathy? Yes? I think Angie would tell you, turn.

Off your cell phone.

No texting.

I would.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Get away from the technology.

Right, exactly. So your clients are mostly business owners.

Okay, so like you said, you would normally think business owners would be like, okay, I've got to figure out the financials. I've got to, like, make my goals and set my goal.

So what kind of business owner or where are they at in their business or life when they decide they need to reach out to you?

Yeah. So.

There is a certain time or maybe times, I have a lot of repeat clients over the years. There's a certain point in business where You've taken all the learning classes you can take. You've read all the books you can read.

You've worked with all the goals driven people that you can work with, and those things aren't working anymore. You're still feeling miserable inside.

You're still thinking, if I could take a grenade and pull the pin and toss it backward into my business and blow it up, like I would do that Right when you're sitting in your car driving to work. Well, not anymore. But you're sitting in your house, looking at your office, thinking, you need to go to work and you don't want to.

That's the point where a lot of people come to me and say, it's not working. I'm not sure how to fix it, or I think I know how to fix it, and I'm afraid to say what I think the solution is.

And so I need a trusted partner to just talk this through. I need a trusted partner to help me get to my truth, not anyone else's. Not my board of directors, you know, not my employees, not my co founders.

I need to get to my truth, and I need help doing that.

Yeah. And I.

And that's really significant, too, because when you're at the top of your company, you don't necessarily want to be vulnerable to your board of directors or to your vice presidents or anybody like that. Yeah. So talk to me about vulnerability. I mean, that's got to be a big part of what you're doing.

And in fact, you commented on my blog last week about vulnerability.

Yeah.

How do you. How do you work with your clients around that?

Yeah. One of my clients remarked, he was like, angie, you are just like a well of compassion.

There's just something about you that helps people feel safe to open up. So there's just something about me and who I am that I don't entirely understand. But it really works with the kind of work that I do.

And in some examples about vulnerability, when a client who has a $10 million business opens up to me and says, this business is killing me, that's vulnerability.

When the owner of a $2 million business says, I'm spending so much time I think on the wrong things, but I don't know how to make the changes I need to make because it's become so enmeshed in my day to day, that's real vulnerability. The vulnerability piece comes from allowing the person to. To say whatever it is they need to say in a place that is safe.

I call it the cone of safety. Right.

All of my Sessions are cone of safety places where you can say the thing that you think is going to shock the world and it is not going to shock me.

No judgment.

No judgment. It is a no judgment zone. Absolutely.

So your description of the agony and the discomfort that people are feeling in their business, I sparked this question where she says, do you do the wayfinding with people who are struggling in broken marriages and relationships, or is that a separate specialty?

I think that is a separate specialty that I think moves more into the realm of finding a good marriage and family therapist who can work individually or together on those kinds of issues.

But I was thinking also, as you were describing it, that doesn't have to be just a business owner that says, oh my gosh, I don't want to go to work one more day. I mean, people that work in organizations feel that as well. Do you work with them also?

I can and I have.

I did a little stint of coaching in corporate America, but quickly found out that so many people are so unhappy in corporate America that corporate America was hiring me to help fix the issues. But all I wanted to say to the people was, you hate your job. You hate the way this is. Quit. Find something different.

And that is not what corporate America was paying me to do.

Yeah.

And so I. I just have so much experience working with business owners and I know their troubles and I honor how quickly they make decisions. I honor how autonomous they are in doing what they need to do. That that's sort of the niche that I've gotten into.

Yeah, that's your sweet spot. And that's an important thing to know, right? That's an important thing to know. So you shared your book with me. Notes from Nature. There we go.

You see all my little bookmarks here?

So it's a great book to take out into the forest with you or to think about, you know, before you go, because has different sections about, you know, your mind and your spirituality, your, you know, your physical being, your. And you talk about going outside to go inside.

Yes.

Which is part of the forest. Bathing. But. But can you do it by yourself?

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

If you have five minutes in a day to walk out into your backyard and take your shoes off and stand in your lawn and close your eyes and breathe and listen and smell and feel and then open your eyes and see what you notice, that five minute practice is one of the most healing gifts you can give yourself. Truly.

What do you do on a cold, rainy, snowy day?

You bundle up.

You still go out.

Still go out. So for December, I did I did 31 days of sit spotting.

And a sit spot is where you go and you sit in one place and you forest bathe just in from that one place. And I had 12 courageous souls that signed up in December to do sit spotting with me for 31 days.

And whether it rained or it snowed or it was below freezing, you just put on the right clothes and you go out to your sit spot in 20 minutes, you set a timer, and you just sit out there and let whatever happens happen.

Wow.

And I had a couple of clients that got sleeping bags. They got their down bags sat out in the yard. I took my down place blanket out with me on really cold mornings.

Wow.

You just go out there and sit. It's the weirdest, most revolutionary practice. And it changes you.

It changes you because you find it changes you because you start to feel like your physical body, and you start to notice things happening with your physical body. And our bodies don't lie to us. They are great givers of information. What they need, how they want to move, how they like to be nourished.

And when you sit with your body, you start to hear and feel and sense all these things. And when you sit for 20 minutes out in nature, you start to access your own inner thoughts and your own inner desires.

And.

It's a beautiful gift because there's no. There's no input from anybody else. No one else is telling you how it should be. And there's no television, which is telling a vision.

That's what television does. It tells a vision.

I never thought of that.

Right. There's no one else's expertise. There are no gurus. There are no. There's. There's nobody out there to tell you what to think.

And so you're just left with your own original thoughts,.

And you become your best guide.

Yes, you do.

Yeah.

And so then your inner wisdom comes, right? Inner wisdom go out to go in. Your inner wisdom comes forward. And sometimes it's really surprising.

I mean, some of my 12 participants in December said, I didn't know I felt that way until day 11. Something shifted, and I noticed this thing, and then I made this connection, and I'm kind of shocked that I feel like this.

But now I know, and I know that's true. You know, like, I'll try to meditate, and sometimes my brain won't shut down. And yet all of a sudden, like, this thought will pop up, and I'm.

Like, oh, I like that.

Yeah. Donna says my biggest breakthroughs have come walking in the woods, letting go while Walking, clearing my mind, expending energy elsewhere.

Yeah, thanks, Donna. And Kathy says it's a great time of year to watch the birds, smell the air, feel the wind, and know that spring is coming.

That's right.

Can't wait for spring. So. So do you do forest bathing, like with just individuals or do you do groups? How does that work?

I do three different kinds of forest bathing. I forest bathe for myself, by myself, with myself.

I have individual clients that I take forest bathing, where sometimes we go once a week because it is so valuable to them to just get outside of their day to day routine. And so we'll do a combination of forest bathing and wayfinding while we're out in nature.

And then I will do small groups of people and take them out for a group experience. And sometimes it's in a retreat setting. I try and run two retreats a year.

Last year I did a retreat at a center and we had 10 people that came and we incorporated a lot of questions, group work, and a bunch of individual forest bathing teams. Time.

And then in the fall, I did a backpacking retreat where we combined some backpacking with wayfinding and did a bunch of forest bathing out while we were backpacking.

Wow.

Yeah. But then, you know, if.

If somebody says, you know, I have a piece of property and I'd like to bring the group out to this piece of property, then we'll put together a group forest bathing experience for that kind of a thing too.

And do you do like a debrief at the end or is it all just still an individual experience?

So I will set it up so that everyone knows what we're doing and what to expect, why we're here. People like to know kind of who's in the circle and give everybody a chance to talk about who they are and why they're there.

And then we will have a series of invitations. So an invitation to see in a specific way, to hear in a specific way. Smelling, tasting, feeling, walking, sitting for the two to three hours.

And then at the end, we sit in a circle and we share what we experience.

And I can tell, Angie, just from talking to you that you create such a safe space. I mean, it just feels calming just having this conversation with you.

Good. Yeah, it's that again, that's.

It's something that I'm probably more conscious about it now and deliberate about it, but it's been something within me for a long time.

Yeah, it's a gift.

Yeah, I think so. Hard to explain.

So I always like to ask our Guest if there are two to three takeaways that they would like to leave with the audience. So what would you say to that?

Yeah, so I would say if you're asking the question, what's next? Or what's my purpose in life? These are, these are common themes, themes that I hear from people who are seeking, who are ready to find their way.

Because you don't ask those questions unless you're starting to become ready for what's next or to really step into and find your purpose. So if you're asking those questions, step one is get out into nature. Truly.

And like I said, even if it's five minutes a day, go out into nature, find that stillness and get quiet and just listen. Just listen. Five minutes a day to solve all the world's problems. I really believe that.

I really believe that a second thing and this my way finding journey started because I was really bad at wanting what I wanted. So the journey that I help people on is the journey I had to go on.

I ignored for a long time the things that I wanted because they weren't in line with what my culture said was okay. They weren't in line with what my family said was okay. They weren't in line with what the religion I was raised in said was okay.

And it took me a long time to really want what I wanted with my whole heart. And so I would say to folks, want what you want with your whole heart and go after it.

Go after it with your whole heart and your whole soul and all, all of your energy. Want what you want. It's okay.

What you want. And that's it.

That's.

It's okay. It's okay. Want what you want. Thank you, Angie. Thank you.

Let me share with people how they can get in touch with you if they have any other questions or thoughts about this. So they can email you at Angie. Angie steagall.com they can find you on your website. Makes it easy. Right.

And they can find you on Facebook and Instagram at Angie Steagall Wayfinder. So just search for that. And yeah, so you'll get to see some of the wonderful pictures that she shares too, of being out in nature for.

Yep, I share. I share all my adventures. I'm pretty open about the things that I do. And I, I talk a lot when there are themes as I work with clients.

I love to write about them and share with people and have dialogue and conversation online about those kinds of things.

Yeah. So go on micro pages.

Yeah.

So that you can, you can follow her and get all that? Yeah, it's good for the soul. Thank you. I want to remind all of you to check out the Fearless Leader program.

Like I said, it was a fabulous eight week program. You're going to learn so much. And if you mention that you heard about it on hey Boomer, you're going to get a hundred dollars off the tuition.

So encourage you to go look at that. Check out the Lifeline screening. And let me tell you about our guest for next week.

His name is Don Herzl and Don had a long career in corporate America and retired as the CEO of a major insurance company. He now lives in Hawaii and he lives a life of adventure photography and writing.

You will find as we discuss his book what's Left of Dawn, that he tends to put himself in some very precarious situations like swimming with sharks, walking around volcanoes and stuff. But he has managed to come away mostly unscathed. He's been married for 50 years and his wife is a photographer also.

And many of his adventures, she is right there with him. So if you love adventure and learning about things that you may not ever want to do, but you can, you can share in his storytelling.

He's a good storyteller. You're going to love this show. So I always like to end with A quote from C.S.

Lewis where he reminds us that you are never too old to dream another dream or set a new goal. So please join us each week to dream with us, to share with us and to build community. Thank you. I am grateful for all of you.

And my name is Wendy Green and this has been hey Boomer.

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