As geopolitical tensions rise, responsible investors are asking tough questions: Is there a case for responsible investment in defence? In this episode, Nathan Fabian, Chief Sustainable Systems Officer at PRI, is joined by Mark Wade (Allianz Global Investors), Estelle Parker (Responsible Investment Association Australasia), and Torben Möger Pedersen (Danish Foreign Policy Society; former CEO, PensionDanmark) to explore whether defence can be considered part of responsible investment, and if so, under what conditions. 

Overview

The discussion examines the complexities of defence in the environmental, social and governance context. With NATO members increasing their budgetary commitments and European states boosting spending, defence is becoming a more prevalent part of the investment landscape. Yet reputational, human rights, and environmental risks remain at the forefront of investor concerns. The panel unpacks exclusion versus inclusion approaches, the rise of dual-use technologies, transparency challenges, and the role of stewardship in shaping defence practices.

Detailed Coverage

• The case for defence investment: Torben argues that democracy and national security are foundational, making military capacity essential to safeguarding rights and advancing long-term societal goals.
• Human rights and environmental risks: Estelle highlights investor obligations for heightened due diligence, noting reputational, environmental, corruption, and legal risks tied to weapons.
• Evolving client expectations: Mark outlines shifting European regulation and investor sentiment, with non-labelled funds more open to limited defence exposure under strict conditions.
• Dual-use technologies: The blurred line between civilian and military innovation (cyber, AI, drones, green energy) challenges investors to navigate benefits and risks.
• Transparency and disclosure: All panelists agree that investors need clearer reporting from defence companies — not on classified technology, but on customers, contracts, and safeguards.
• Stewardship opportunity: Rather than blanket exclusion, investors could push for higher standards by engaging directly with defence companies and shaping industry norms.

Chapters

• 00:44 – Why defence is back on the agenda
• 02:09 – Democracy, defence, adding the “D” into ESG?
• 05:26 – Human rights, reputational, and environmental risks
• 08:53 – Ukraine, NATO, and the defence boom
• 11:47 – Client expectations and regulatory shifts
• 16:08 – Responsible investing frameworks: defence as social necessity?
• 18:24 – Due diligence, customers, and sanctions
• 23:31 – Stewardship, standards, and defence bonds
• 28:33 – Dual-use technologies and transparency
• 37:36 – Human rights due diligence in practice
• 40:04 – Policy, regulation, and long-term certainty
• 45:00 – Final reflections on the future of defenCe investing
• 47:16 – The responsibility of investors in today’s world

Keywords

responsible investment, defence sector ESG, PRI podcast, democracy and defence, sustainable investing, fiduciary duty, NATO defence spending, human rights due diligence, reputational risk, dual-use technologies, defense bonds, military ESG risks, transparency in defence, systemic stewardship, long-term investment strategies, ethical investing, exclusion vs inclusion, autonomous weapons, investor stewardship, sustainable finance regulation

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Disclaimer

This podcast is provided for educational and informational purposes only. It is not investment advice, financial planning guidance, or a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold securities. All discussions are for educational purposes only.