What if your home and city are quietly making you sick? In this eye-opening episode, Joe Fier sits down with Dr. Lyn Patrick—environmental medicine expert, educator, and long-time advocate—to shine a light on the invisible toxic exposures affecting almost everyone. From “forever chemicals” in tap water to stealthy mold lurking in buildings, Dr. Patrick unpacks how today’s environments contribute to chronic health issues—and reveals why innovative treatments like therapeutic plasma exchange (TPE) could be game-changers in detoxification and recovery. Expect a hopeful look forward, practical tips, and resources that empower you to take charge of your environment and well-being.

Topics Discussed

• Dr. Patrick’s Journey in Environmental Medicine: How she became a leader in the field, her mentors, and the importance of specialized environmental training for clinicians.
• Hidden Environmental Exposures: The chronic impact of “forever chemicals” (like PFAS), metals, mold, and pollutants in everyday environments—even in seemingly pristine areas.
• Challenges in Conventional Medical Training: Why environmental toxicology is often overlooked in traditional medical education and the gaps this leaves in patient care.
• Testing and Identifying Exposures: How to assess your local risk factors with resources like EWG’s Tap Water Database and understand what’s in your environment.
• Personal Exposure Story: Dr. Patrick shares her own experience uncovering elevated chemical exposures from childhood despite a healthy lifestyle as an adult.
• Therapeutic Plasma Exchange (TPE): How TPE and plasma donation are redefining what’s possible in detoxifying the body from persistent contaminants.
• Preconception Health: The rising importance of detoxification before pregnancy for future generations' health.
• Mold & Mycotoxins: Why mold isn’t just a humid climate issue, the hidden risks in common building practices, and the health challenges related to undetected mold.
• Hope for the Future: Advances in testing, water filtration, and detox protocols; Dr. Patrick’s optimism about human resilience and scientific progress.

Resources Mentioned

• EMEIGlobal: emeiglobal.com
• Environmental Working Group (EWG) Tap Water Database: ewg.org/tapwater
• EPA Superfund Site List: epa.gov/superfund
• Movie — “Dark Waters”: IMDB Link
• Erin Brockovich’s Water Contamination Resource: Erin Brockovich Official Site
• Erin Brockovich Newsletter:https://www.thebrockovichreport.com
• Dr. Anne Marie Fine: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-anne-marie-fine-b798796/
• Dr. Jill Carnahan: https://mdlifespan.com/tpe-bp-podcast/tpe-blueprint-podcast-ep-19-is-mold-behind-your-fatigue-brain-fog-dr-jill-carnahan-unpacks-the-hidden-epidemic-breakthrough-detox-solutions/

Connect with Us

• Website: TPE Blueprint
• Instagram: @tpeblueprint
• Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: TPE Blueprint on Apple Podcasts
• Subscribe on Spotify: TPE Blueprint on Spotify
• Contact: Visit our website for feedback, questions, and upcoming episode info!

Liked what you heard? Don’t miss future episodes—subscribe now to the TPE Blueprint Podcast wherever you listen! Share this episode with someone who wants to take charge of their health or is curious about environmental medicine and cutting-edge detox strategies.

Disclaimer:

MDLifespan PlasmaXchange protocols are designed to support general health and wellness. They are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The information provided on this podcast is for educational purposes only and should not replace medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before beginning any new health program, especially if you have a medical condition or are taking prescribed medications.

What if the very homes and cities we love are making us chronically

sick without our knowledge?

So today on the podcast, I'm joined by Dr. Lynn Patrick,

who's an environmental medicine pioneer, a researcher and educator.

Where she's gonna pull back the curtain on a lot of these hidden toxic exposures

that almost all of us are exposed to, maybe all of us from forever.

Chemicals in our water, our tap water, or silent mold that's

inside of all of our walls.

So she's gonna break down how this all works and really why therapeutic

plasma exchange is completely redefining how things are done to

truly detoxify and reclaim your health.

So she's gonna break it all down for us.

Let's dive in.

All right, Dr. Lynn, I am so happy, Dr. Lynn, Patrick, that is, sorry.

Um, happy that you're here.

We're, we've already been chatting.

I'm like, we gotta hit record because this is gonna be good.

So how you doing today?

Overall?

I'm great.

We've already gotten deeply into it very quickly, so we'll pull ourselves

back out and get right back in.

right?

Well, that's, it's always a good, it always makes me feel good

and I know it's gonna, you know, it's gonna come across great.

You've been studying environmental what?

Toxicology and just everything.

Medicine 20 years, 20 plus years,

Yes, I had a mentor, Dr. Walter Crinnion, who I worked very closely with for

decades, he was trained, he and myself were trained by Dr. William J. Ray,

who was a, a cardiothoracic surgeon.

Who, believe it or not, who also practiced environmental medicine and

had a treatment center, environmental health Center, Dallas, in Dallas,

Texas, uh, since the seventies.

And he was one of the pioneers in environmental medicine in this country.

And we were both extremely fortunate and blessed to be able to be under

his tutelage and to learn from him.

And, uh, he was an amazingly.

Brilliant human being, um, has a five volume set.

You know, each one's about an inch or two thick

on his experience treating patients.

And on the, uh, referenced information in the medical

literature on environmental medicine,

Wow.

So he was setting the foundation for all of this to, to

he was, yes.

what got, uh, it's not a new, or it's, yeah, it is a newer science or focus

and I mean, it's developing so fast.

You would know best what got you into this whole space.

I'm just curious what

Well, uh, yeah, we call it the new toxicology.

You know, toxicology is more about acute poisoning.

Now we're seeing that we're dealing with an entire planet in which humans

are being chronically poisoned.

So this is a little bit different than what we would, you know,

think of as medical toxicology.

So here's how it happened.

I had been in practice for about.

Mm, 10, 15 years.

I went to Dr. Crinnion's day long, uh, environmental medicine workshop, and

I was sitting next to a friend of mine who's an internist, um, Dr. Calsu.

And so we were whispering back and forth.

He, because he presented these patient cases and we recognize

these situations and patients like, oh my God, I saw that patient.

They didn't get better.

I saw that patient.

They didn't get

better.

I didn't look at what they'd been exposed to either recently or historically.

And so Dr. Culsa and I, as we're whispering back and forth during this

day long, uh, patient case presentation, uh, that Dr. Crinnion was so good at,

uh, he was a great teacher.

We decided during that day long course, that day long

presentation that we would get him.

To teach us everything that he knew.

So we elbowed our way to the front of the line of questions of doctors.

Uh, at one of the breaks.

We said, we've gotta take you to lunch.

And at that meal we said to him, you've gotta start a training program

for physicians because, you know.

We don't, we didn't learn this in school.

Nobody learns this in school.

I didn't learn it in naturopathic medical school.

Dr. Calsa did not learn it in his traditional,

conventional medical training.

lo and behold, uh, I think that was 2000.

Uh, in 2001 there was the first class that he had put together of

docs from all over the country.

We flew into the naturopathic medical school in Tempe, Arizona,

and we met, uh, every, I think two or three months for a weekend.

And then we had a curriculum of a lot of material.

That we had to learn from the medical literature.

By the way, this is all published in the medical literature.

It's

just that nobody's put it together.

And, uh, it changed my practice completely.

I had a general family practice.

I did a lot of, uh, OBGYNs, I did recognize the role that toxic metals

played, but I didn't specialize it.

I changed my entire practice to specialize in environmental medicine.

I worked with a physician, a do, and we built an addition to his clinic

that was an environmental medicine.

Uh.

Wing basically of his clinic, and we started treating patients and

that was in Durango, Colorado,

which you'd think it's in the southwest.

It's pristine mountains.

It's

beautiful ex, except that it is directly north in the plume of the two

oldest grandfathered in coal burning.

Electric generating plants.

So we had a lot of sick patients, higher risk for autoimmune disease, higher risk

for cancer as a result of those exposures.

So, um, we had a population to work with

Yes he did.

And so then, uh, I started teaching with Dr. Crinnion in his

postgraduate training program.

And then sadly in 2019 he passed away and I took over that training program.

And that's what I do now, is we have a, uh, global, international,

uh, training program for clinicians in environmental medicine,

And that's, uh, E em ei global.com, right?

That's,

correct.

Em ei global.com.

Yes.

And I just interviewed your colleague, Dr. Ann Marie uh, Fine.

And she was awesome.

And like you said, she's the queen of microtoxins toxins, or

sorry, microplastics and, um, and even nanoplastics, which

were frightening me even more.

I'll tell you Dr. Fine has educated me a lot

and I'm really grateful for this specialty area of knowledge of hers,

uh, in both personal care product.

Yep,

Uh, toxicants as well as microplastics and nanoplastics.

And, uh, we now have, not here in the United States, but in, uh, Europe,

we have tests that will measure blood levels of micro and nanoplastics.

talked about this.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

So, yeah, that's, that's a podcast not to miss for

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

And, um, yeah, just, just search her name, Dr. Fine, and you'll

find her, we'll make it easy.

We'll, we'll link it in the show notes as well.

But let's talk about, so your focus and, and well, the fact that you

are educating, I'll just talk, go back to your model really fast.

'cause I find it so fascinating that.

This isn't taught in normal medical school.

Not at all.

Dr. Fine was like, everyone's so busy too.

They don't even have time to read the literature, the new research, right.

I will say, I have to say this to be, to be, uh, transparent.

We do in medical training, learn about lead toxicity.

Uh, we learn about.

Some of the other, like air pollution, how dangerous air pollution is.

The problem is that medical training, and I'm talking both about, uh,

conventional medical training and what we would consider functional medical

training or alternative medical training.

Does not go into the areas of what do you do about it?

Right?

How do you test for it?

How do you diagnose conditions?

Uh, like for example, we know that about 400,000 people in this

country die every year from heart attacks caused by lead poisoning.

That's about a, that's about 30% of all deaths from cardiovascular disease,

from heart attacks and strokes.

That's in the medical literature.

Wow.

Doctors, how many have you, or how many people do you think that

go into their physicians who have risk for heart disease, either from

family history or currently are tested for their blood lead level?

Zero.

heard of it.

Yeah.

Because doctors aren't trained in this and they, yeah, they don't have

time to read the medical literature.

I mean, Dr. Fine and I live in that world, so we're reading the

medical literature all day long,

but no, doctors are way too busy to to, to train in that way.

For many years I worked with an organization called A CAM, the American

College for the Advancement of Medicine, and we taught a course in medical

toxicology where we literally took doctors through the medical literature as well as.

The clinical training for how to test for and to treat metals.

I think Dr. Savage has taken that training, if I'm not mistaken,

or one similar to it, and all the docs would come up to me and go, ah, why did

I never learn this in medical school?

There are probably multiple reasons.

One of the reasons is that we don't focus on.

Toxicants as a cause of disease in medical training other than occupational

medicine, which is a specialty and only looks at acute poisoning of

workers in an industrial environment.

We are so far beyond that now.

You know, if we look at, for example, the residents who were involved

in the Eaton Fire in Los Angeles.

Right, right.

Those people as well as the residents, uh, in New York City

for who were there for 9/11,

as well as several other.

Exposures like East Palestine, Ohio, we know that those residents have

been exposed to significant amounts of toxic metals as well as other very

poisonous, uh, carcinogenic compounds from combustion, from burning,

uh, because the, we're in a new world now.

You know, we don't even call them wildfires.

We call them, um, uh, urban.

Wildfire interface fires, something like that.

But really what they are, Joe, is they're industrial fires

They're burning houses.

They're burning, uh, businesses and, and

cars.

a lot of plastics, polyvinyl chloride.

And so what we're dealing with now, and Dr. Fine and I are actually work

working with this amazing organization of the residents of the Eaton Fire who

are surviving, is to really try and understand more about their exposures.

Because from the small amount of data that we have.

'cause people have had to generate this through their own expense.

We are seeing very high levels of metals as well as other, uh, very

harmful compounds like cyanide.

So, you know, sadly these compounds are carried in wildfire,

smoke for a very long distance,

Right.

So it's not just the actual Eaton fire residents,

obviously they're getting brunt of it, but

the plume.

You know, if you look at a map of the e of la, the Eaton fire, the

plume went directly south and a little bit west I or east, I'm sorry.

Um, and so all of the inhabitants of Los Angeles that were south of, uh, I think

it's Alta Dana, the Eaton fire was in,

are exposed as well.

So this, this is a major.

But it's not uncommon

there's fires everywhere now and, but it's not even these wildfires

or these incidents, they're like you said, they, they, 9/11, that

was a big one in a different way.

But there was combustion, there was a lot of debris, of course.

Um, East Palestine, like you said, what, that was a massive explosion, I

believe yeah, all these other events, like what is combustion, the big thing.

And then obviously that goes up, wind carries it.

Well, it's not even that.

That's only one scenario of exposure we have, unfortunately, in the United States.

This is documented by the Environmental Protection Agency

exposure through our water system.

Sadly there are about, I can't remember the most current figure,

but I think historically within the last decade we've looked at about

5 million people who are exposed to significant amounts of pesticides

in their water.

We know that lead is a huge problem, as is arsenic a huge problem in the tap water.

So what's coming out of the tap that people are drinking?

Uh, this is all documented by a group called the Environmental Working Group

that has, uh, taken the EPA data and organized them in an extremely wonderful

data database called the Tap Water Database, which you can access for free,

and you can look by zip code and you can see all the contaminants in your

particular zip code and all the other, uh.

Levels of contamination of all the contaminants that are documented

I've looked at that before.

Yeah.

Is that EW g.org.

correct tap water database.

Uh, and you know, when we train our doctors, we train them how to figure out.

What the high risk contaminant exposures are for their patients

by looking at where they live,

by looking at where they work, by looking at where they have lived in the past.

All of this data, much of this data is available to us through websites like

EWG, as well as the EPA, which maintains a database of all the Superfund sites.

Uh, and you know, about one out of five kids lives within.

Uh, three miles of a Superfund site, so, you know, it's not uncommon.

can you

so yeah,

A Superfund site is a site that has been determined by the EPA to

have significant contamination of toxins, either through the air.

Through the water or through the soil.

So this could be a municipal waste site, it could be, uh, you know, a dump site.

It can be industrial leakage, it could be anything.

And people don't know.

I mean, they're not gonna get an email that says, Hey, guess what?

You live in this Superfund site.

Uh, there

are thousands of Superfund sites all over the country.

At any given moment that the EPA is trying to remediate, but the funds for

that remediation come through a, uh, a, a bill, a law that was passed decades ago

called the c of legislation.

And sadly, most states have already used up their CRC of funds.

So it's, it is difficult for that remediation to take place.

I'm sure you've heard of a woman named Erin Brockovich.

of course.

Yeah.

She now maintains a very wonderful website.

I wish I knew the name of it, but it's probably easy to find

where she actually crowdsource current, uh, water system contamination events.

Uh, and there are hundreds of them.

Uh, I, I'm on her e list, so I get emails from her every day

I'm looking it up right now.

I'll find it.

it would be a good resource to list, so.

Yeah.

all of us are exposed to significant amount of toxicants, even if

we take measures to avoid them.

So for instance, I'll, I'll use myself an example.

You know, I do it all.

I have an air filter, a water filter, I eat organic food, blah,

blah, blah, you know, on and

on.

And I recently measured my forever chemical burden.

So forever chemicals.

We know them as Goretex and Teflon, and there are thousands of

different chemicals in this class.

Uh, we have been exposed to them through our water supply.

Sadly, uh, the Environmental working group has a map that is current of

all of the contamination sites for these per fluorinate chemicals so

that you can look in your zip code and see if you have water contamination.

So I don't have water contamination where I have lived for the past.

25 years.

I historically have lived and was born in areas where there

were water contamination.

So my blood pernet levels are now and I am 70, uh,

high.

But that's from, not from your own doing as you've been in your

70 awesome years, it's from what you've inherited from your parents.

Wow.

it is what I drank when I was a kid,

Ah,

right?

And so we call these chemicals forever.

Chemicals because they're flooring and carbon bonded, and this bond

is literally impossible to break.

So Dr. Fine and I have been meeting with some scientists

from uh, Eurofins Laboratory.

Which is in the United States now they've come over from Europe and

they call themselves Empower Dx

with the scientists that develop the test, the blood test for per performances.

Uh, it's just a do it yourself, poke your finger at home test.

It's

very good actually.

Um, and what we understand from them is that every person they've ever tested

has some level of detectable performance.

The.

Center for Disease Control knows this, and they have given

doctors guidance for what to do.

Now, here's the catch.

There is no guidance about how to get Perforance out of the body.

Right.

The guidance is, well, you gotta check for thyroid cancer and testicular cancer

in men, and you've gotta look at, uh, altered blood fat levels, cholesterol

levels, and it causes thyroid disease and fatty liver disease and on and on.

But there's no guidance from the CD, C about how to get these

chemicals out of human bodies.

Hmm.

However, we know that from some really good data in Australia,

they've looked at firefighters.

Firefighters because of their exposure.

They're one of the most hazardous occupations.

We've gotta help firefighters.

Uh, they really need our help because they do such a, a heroic, literally job.

yeah.

have one of the highest risks for cancer of any occupation.

So these Australian researchers said to the firefighters, we're

going to have you donate plasma.

As well as blood.

And so they looked at firefighters with no donation.

They looked at blood do donation, they looked at plasma donation.

The firefighters that actually brought their levels of per performance back

down to normal over a period of a couple years were those that donated plasma, so

So just donation, not even the full TPE, but, uh, interesting.

getting plasma out of the body,

let's say that right?

We, we know that a lot of these perforates are carried in the blood, that they live

in the blood and are carried in the blood.

That's why I think one of the thousands of reasons, but one of the main reasons that

I think that the pioneering technology of.

Plasmapheresis, you know, the therapeutic plasmapheresis is the way that we can

actually identify one, what I think is one of the most concerning toxicants in our.

Environment and in our bodies that nobody is talking about.

I mean, I think it's becoming more common knowledge

that you don't wanna use Teflon and you don't want to, you know, marinate

yourself and, and you don't wanna rub your Gore-Tex jacket all over your

skin anymore.

yeah, I bring it up to friends all the time and it's almost

like, you know, eyes get wide.

Do they want to

know

more?

I'm like,

uh, clinicians as well, because clinicians are like, who cares?

We can't do anything about it.

Now we can.

So, you know, I have listened to, educated myself about performance.

Probably read every study that's ever been written and written a lot, and

educated our clinicians about it.

And it is dangerous.

I mean, the, the studies looking at fatty liver disease in children.

Correlated with their pernet levels.

You know, this stuff is not benign in any way, shape or form.

We have made a big booboo by, uh, you know, and 3M the company.

If you don't, if you wanna learn about per performance, watch the movie,

uh, Dark Waters with Mark Ruffo.

That is probably one of the most entertaining.

It's based on the true story of contamination of the Ohio River Valley.

Uh, of 70,000 people that were heavily contaminated with per performances in

their drinking water by the 3M company that knew exactly what they were doing.

Uh, and Mark Ruffo plays the lawyer that, uh, was brave enough to actually

defend, uh, some of the farmers and the people that were watching their, their

cattle get sick and die as a result.

So,

Yeah.

Oh, that's, um, it's DuPont it looks like.

Yeah.

DuPont, yeah.

That's okay.

No, I, I, I haven't seen the

3M.

Yeah, three.

3M also did the same thing, but they did it in the Great Lakes area.

yeah.

I'm like, it can't be the first time this happened, but

either way.

Yeah, that we'll link that.

I wanna watch that.

I have not seen it.

I've heard of

Oh yeah,

please.

It.

It's very, it's highly entertaining and you learn a lot about

performance, but bottom line

is that these are the toxicants we need to worry about, right?

We need to, we need to be concerned and attentive to all of them,

but we as clinicians, we know how to get lead out of the body.

There's a very, you know, we've been doing that since the fifties,

EDTA chelation.

We know how to get the other metals out of the body except for

aluminum, which is kind of difficult.

And I know the data.

I've seen Dr. Savage present his data on the ability of TPE to completely eliminate

aluminum in the blood, which.

Pretty impressive data.

Um, and, but there are certain, like microplastics, we don't know

how to get those out of the body.

And now that we know that microplastics are found in penile tissue and in blood

vessels, everybody in the medical world is horrified in paying very close attention.

Believe me.

I think we have good technologies for getting many of the other

toxicants outta the body,

but the ability to do plasma exchange is probably the most heartening,

uh, exciting, I think, revolutionary technology that I have seen.

because we can address these toxins that we didn't know how to address before.

Literally the ones that, you know, keep us awake at night.

I mean, once you.

Both test enough people for perforates and you understand the research and

the literature of which there is a lot looking at the relationship of disease

to levels of perforates in the blood

and now with what we already know what Dr.

Fine is teaching us about micro and nanoplastics, you know, these

are the ones to worry about.

and it seems like with the more technology, the better

screening or testing, it's almost like you uncover more, right?

Like the, that's what I kind of gathered without her totally

saying those exact words, but like nanoplastics and what's to say?

All these other chemicals have other variations that we just haven't

detected or know how to look for.

and I think the other really heartening part of this from the, the research

and the data that Dr. Savage has shared with me is that the human body does

have the ability to be resilient.

So, you know, in his.

He's such a forward thinking scientist.

So, you know, he tests people six months later, did they ret detoxify?

Did they detoxify?

Can they maintain that level of low toxicant, uh, body burden?

That they were able to gain with the plasma exchange?

Yes, they can.

So we know, even though he is really good about educating them in the

areas of water filtration and air filtration and food, uh, selection,

you know, you just don't want to eat non-organic food.

Right.

And even that, that can be sometimes kind of sketchy in some regards.

we can go into that, but basically because he teaches them avoidance,

there's that much more that doesn't come into their exposure area.

But you know, you go outside and exercise and breathe

and you're re-exposed, right?

So I think what.

He has done is created a model for getting a human body back to the place

where that human body can be resilient.

And to me, that's the most impressive of all the data.

to me, the six month post last TPE is the most impressive because I know

that people are constantly exposed.

We can't help it.

It's just the world we live in.

Right.

And I am.

So impressed by the capacity of the human body, right?

Given the right nutritional support,

the right avoidance protocols to maintain a level of health and

capacity to excrete these toxicants that are in our everyday exposure.

You know, we have a test that looks in the urine.

This is kind of an illustrative point.

We, and this test looks in the urine for metabolites of plastics and

solvents and, uh, personal care product pollutants, and it's in everybody

And that means it's coming through

Yes, you get worried when you don't see it, because when you don't see

it, those are usually the sicker patients who don't have the capacity

to detoxify these everyday exposures.

Right.

Right.

So.

What we know from that testing, and there are hundreds of thousands of,

uh, data points there in those, uh, urine, um, metabolite, toxicant panels

is that we are exposed and we do detoxify and eliminate these

chemicals on a daily basis.

Bisphenols, phthalates,

Yep.

There are a whole family of phenolic compounds that we

eliminate, so we know we're exposed.

We have proof of it, uh, and we know that some people are better

at detoxifying than others are.

So if we give those folks overall detoxification support, basically

nutritional support, and we get rid of the reservoir of historical exposures,

Mm-hmm.

I think this really gives the human race so much hope.

It sounds like it.

And.

I, I like how you're illustrating TPE therapeutic plasma exchange in this way.

Of course, Dr. Savage has outlined a lot of it here and talked in detail,

but it, it's interesting when you say, you know, uh, and maybe this was before,

but our body burden, like a lot of that has, has come from, of course, the

environment is, is playing to that, but we inherit so much from, I mean, we're

seeing, like you said, babies coming out

We do, and in fact, one of the protocols that's available for

TPE is a preconception protocol.

We are at a point on planet Earth in 2025 where it is advisable for men and

women who are planning to conceive to do something prior to conception because.

S uh, toxicants as well as some of the downstream damage from those toxicants

can be carried through the sperm, right?

Sperm can be both.

Uh, minimal in terms of their population.

They can also be damaged.

The individual sperm can be damaged.

So I think we're at a point where we really need to understand

the concept of preconception detoxification as a necessity.

That's much more common in the European Union than it

is here in the United States.

Uh, it is difficult because.

You know, there's a problem with infertility in the first place.

however, I think there are some real important scientific principles

about, you know, cleaning house before you try to get pregnant.

That really, A, make it much easier, and b, ensure.

Full term pregnancy of a healthy human infant.

So all of those three stages, right?

You wanna make sure that preconception you get healthier during conception,

you get healthier, and that your infant is healthy when it's born at term.

is there any way currently to test children, obviously little or body?

Yeah.

Tell

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

Um, we test children if they have A-D-H-D-A-D-D.

Uh, pans, pandas, uh, or uh, are on the autism spectrum anywhere for metals.

Uh, we can certainly test them for per performance.

Uh, we can test them for a, not, we can test them for mycotoxins.

We can test kids for anything we can test adults for, and

So I guess it's urine, right?

Yeah, it's urine test.

It's pretty, pretty

easy.

and urine.

Blood and urine.

Mm-hmm.

Got it.

Is there, so what protocols, I guess, for children, what would, what would you see?

I haven't heard of any TPE being done on children.

At least

Uh, the,

it's being done in Europe right now.

Uh, it's being pioneered in Europe.

We don't do it here in the United States.

I think that what we can do with kids.

Is we can actually look for metals in their blood and urine.

We can look, uh, a big problem with kids is their microbiome is really messed up

and we can actually look for and address that.

Absolutely.

Yeah, well that's, that would be an interesting, maybe that's another

topic for, for the future we can dive deep on, but that's, yeah.

The fact that you have sounds like a lot of hope and, you know, with TPE as

it's coming out now, and Dr. Savage is certainly pioneering that, and that's what

we're trying to do here with bring, bring awareness, educate not only the general

pop population, but physicians, people in the, in the health space that are.

Right.

So I would absolutely advocate for TPE in anyone who has elevated

levels of pernis in their blood.

Uh, that's the, the E-P-A-C-D-C approved way to test for performances in the

blood, And I think that according to the CDC, there are three categories

of evaluation of those levels.

One is below two nanograms, one is between two and 20, and one is above 20.

That's the real danger area is when you've got, uh, per

floor, its above 20 nanograms,

I believe it's per mil

especially in those who are in that middle category where I am between

two and 20 nanograms who have.

An increased risk for any of the conditions that are associated with per

fluorines, like fatty liver disease, like thyroid disease, uh, elevated

cholesterol levels, um, et cetera.

And we'll go through the long list.

There are certain cancers like testicular cancer, kidney cancer,

thyroid cancer, uh, absolutely to do, if possible, as much as they can to

get the performance out of their body.

And it looks like, and more data is forth, gonna be forthcoming that.

That plasma removal, whether it's plasma donation, which is kind

of an ethical problem, right?

You don't wanna be putting, uh, pernet uh, laden plasma back into the blood

Right.

I was thinking about that.

I'm like, wait, we're donating this.

That's what they did in the Australian firefighter study.

'cause they didn't have any other option.

Um, you know, but there is a. Protocol to do therapeutic phlebotomy

to remove blood from the body.

Um, but now we have the ability to get plasma out of the body

Yeah, Before ethically, yes.

And, and yeah.

So keep your eye on this and of course we'll keep reporting MD lifespan.

Dr. Savage talked a lot about it.

He can definitely explore.

We have all the links and everything, but yeah, and different protocols

depending on your situation.

I brought up mold to you earlier and you know, I, I was just personally curious

from, because I saw some content that you put out, but at like a, I guess a high

level, we won't go, we won't really have the time to go super deep on the mold

stuff, but I guess quick thoughts on, I guess, uh, because I, I personally have a

whole bunch of that in me, I did a whole episode actually outlining my toxin test.

Oh, great,

free to share and I'll happy to share any experience I have with TPE as well.

But yeah.

What are your thoughts on mold?

Uh, especially in places maybe that like people are like, how do I have mold?

I live in a hot place, for instance.

Um, is it food, is it

so

Yeah.

mentor, Dr. William Ray.

Who has been treating patients who are extremely ill from mold exposure

since the sixties and seventies.

If you can imagine.

That

said to me, there are two basic mistakes that humans have made.

One is building homes with, uh.

Plasterboard, wallboard, drywall, whatever you wanna call it.

That's a Petri dish for mold.

Literally mold

lives every house.

Mold lives on cellulose.

That's cellulose.

The second is that I cannot remember the decade, so forgive me.

Let's say the eighties or nineties, uh, antifungals were

added to paint because you've got

a drywall that's

growing mold and, uh, you know, silly theory of putting an antifungal,

coating a paint over your Petri dish to somehow keep your home for, you

know, your pain from getting moldy.

Lock it in there, right?

I don't know.

You

know, IQs have been going down since the time of Queen Victoria apparently.

And this is, and seriously,

and this is evidence for that, right?

Is that makes no sense at all.

The problem is that that phenomenon.

Increased the amount of mutant molds that are resistant to that

antifungal, that's added to pain.

It's still

in there.

They used to use mercury and they found out, oh, that's not a good idea.

When a little kid died after sleeping in a room that was

painted with mercury laden paint.

Um, you know, so they took the mercury out and put these antifungals in.

So we now have these resistant molds resistant to anything that tries to kill

them that are in our Petri dish homes.

Whether or not we have, uh, we live in a, a moldy place.

I, uh, practiced in Tucson, Arizona for a couple decades.

There are a lot of dry molts in Arizona.

There are also these, uh, contraptions, uh, on the.

The roofs of the homes called swamp coolers, not so much anymore.

They were older, right?

Where you have a pan of water and you have a flywheel going

around that literally shoots humidified air into the homes, which

works great as long as your humidity is like below 50%.

Um, and.

The, there are lots of environments in dry areas that will grow

molds and lots of molds that grow at very low humidity levels.

Uh, so we had a lot of mold problems in Arizona.

The other problem, I don't think Dr. Fine talked about this

is that copper, uh, plumbing

very often, uh, will respire, I don't know how else to.

Say that you can get micro leaks.

You can get micro leaks in copper plumbing that then pushes water out of the plumbing

and into whatever the environment is like.

I don't know, drywall.

So there are a lot of uh, uh, kind of mini mansions, you know.

Um.

In California and other places where there is mold hidden behind, it's invisible.

You can't tell it's there as a result of this little

problem with the copper tubing.

Copper plumbing,

I've had some friends have that exact issue.

Yeah.

And they don't know it.

And then this whole, the whole house is either engulfed or a

room and you would never know.

And it's just the tiniest little drip that's happening.

exactly.

So most mold is invisible.

You know, you see those horrific pictures of stacky bores, black mold on the walls.

You hardly ever see that.

It's mostly you don't see anything, and you've got people living in

that home that are all really sick

with allergies, you know, or asthma or chronic fatigue, or.

Uh, my myalgia is, you know, sore muscles and joints.

It's runs the gamut, or depression.

It runs the gamut.

Okay.

Well, and luckily, TPE at least that's why that's a, that's a large motivator.

So it, it appears from the preliminary evidence we have that mycotoxin

levels go down in the urine after TPE.

Much as we would hope they do in an environment where you get

people out of their moldy homes.

Right now, we don't know.

I haven't seen the data.

All the TPE patients where we've looked at mycotoxins pre and post, how

many of those were currently exposed?

How many of those had mediated, how many of those had left the environment?

So that all has to be factored into it.

But

in general.

Again, what we're doing is getting a significant enough portion

of those mycotoxins out of the circulating plasma that the body

has less to excrete in the urine.

Right.

I think Doc, Dr.

Carnahan probably talked about this in graphic detail.

yeah.

Dr. Jill Carnahan.

Yeah, so she's, she's awesome and definitely the expert and

we'll, we'll point to her as well.

Great.

Yeah.

Well, Dr. Lynn, Patrick, this is, I, I laugh just because there's so much

new information I get every single episode, but this one is, you just

went down some rabbit holes that

I did.

I

will have me exploring.

I know.

Well, you're opening minds and I think that's, that's exactly what I, I love

that you, you are all doing that.

Continue it.

Please.

Anything we can do to support you, we will.

And um, I guess.

Two things.

So let's, let's remind people where they should go to follow you and, and

Oh, sure.

So we, we have a platform where we educate physicians.

We also have some consumer courses for the public brought on by our.

Con our frustration, uh, about what happened in East Palestine

and what we want to do to help.

Everybody understand how to avoid toxic exposures.

And then we do have a podcast, which

is available where we, uh, we, we talk about all of this stuff and we've been

talking about it for years every month.

So it is both problem and solution.

In a podcast, we review the medical literature, we look at

all areas of toxic and exposure, and we also look at solutions,

no one else really is thinking about the solutions.

They're, we're on this interesting time, and this is where I kind of

wanna, I ask this often, but like, what's the thing that, like when

you project out five-ish years or so, what makes you hopeful, excited?

Um, obviously TPE you talked a lot about,

but anything

so what What makes me hopeful and excited is that we will now, at that point, five

years from now, we will more easily be able to understand the human exposome.

We'll have better lab testing, cheaper lab testing, and we'll have solutions.

Both in the area of, there's all this amazing stuff going on, uh,

in the water filtration and water purification arena to get per

performance out of the US water supply.

Over half of the US water supply is.

Uh, polluted with per performance right now contaminated with Perforance.

Uh, and I am on one of the, um, engineer websites for water purification and

they're doing amazing things like that's gonna be totally different in five years.

We're going to get per performance out of the water supply, so

we will keep poisoning people

and being able to actually.

Get rid to enough of an extent of the human body burden that people

can return to their natural immune competence and resilience as humans.

That to me is really exciting.

Uh, you know, we, we didn't talk about the whole spike protein issue, but I think

there will be great strides in dealing with long COVID vaccine injury, et cetera.

There already have been, but I think it's gonna be better.

And I think that TPE is a big part of that,

a big part of that.

They're doing some research in Europe, actually looking at changes

in spike protein with plasma, uh, filtration plasma exchange.

Okay.

Maybe that's the next episode.

We, we do pretty soon together and go deep.

I can connect you with the scientist in Germany who's doing that.

That would be even better.

Yeah.

Well, I have you on as well, but

Well, she's better.

She will be

awesome.

to talk to.

Yeah.

Cool.

Thank you so much.

Well, this again, my mind is swelled with, uh, new information and thank you

for doing the work for so many years and, and you're just deep in the research

where other people just aren't and not their fault, you know, life and all

We're all doing our best to

try and learn everything we can about this and, and work for solutions.

And I, especially after Dr. Savage's, uh, pioneering research, I am very helpful.

I haven't been this hopeful in a long time.

Wow.

All right.

Well, I, let's end on that positive note there and, um, thank

you so much for your time, Dr.

Patrick.

Yeah, take care.

Have a great one.