Shownotes
In this dynamic episode, host Jill, welcomes Katerina Barron, a trauma-informed coach who challenges the notion of self-sabotage. Katerina emphasizes the importance of understanding and meeting one's basic needs, both physical and emotional, and explores the concept of nervous system safety.
Find all of Katerina Barron's coaching links and freebie at: LINKTR.EE
Follow Katerina on Instagram
Email: katerinabarron@gmail.com
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Transcripts
Transcript
::Hi and welcome to You World Order Showcase podcast. Today we have with us. Katerina Barron. She is a trauma informed coach who doesn't believe in self sabotage.
::So welcome to the show, Katerina.
::I am really excited to have you here.
::She's also a homeschooling mom.
::So let's just dive in and hear all.
::About who you are, how you got started?
::All stuff.
::OK.
::Thank you so much for having me on today.
::Like you said, I'm Katerina.
::And yeah, I really love.
::I really love my job, which I don't think that many people can say.
::And I love the life that I've been able to create through coaching.
::So that's, you know, pretty exciting.
::So tell us your story.
::How did you get involved in it?
::I know you've got some like you have a divergent brain.
::mm hmm
::And so you have to, you have some struggles as far as trying to.
::To fit how you work in with how.
::The world wants.
::You to work, but let's hear about that and how you got started.
::OK, so my story is a I'm like I tell it different every time so I am a trauma survivor myself.
::I grew up in a high control group and I, you know, survivor of religious trauma and because of a lot of my past.
::Experiences and the connection with chronic illness.
::I ended up with chronic health issues at a very young age at around 27. So in order, you know, because all of us that are like helpers, healers like, we kind of get into it to fix ourselves essentially, because we're grasping at ways to make our lives better, you know?
::because we all want to feel better like that is like the bottom line of the coaching world is we wanna feel better.
::We wanna help people.
::Feel better. So that's.
::Essentially how I got into it, it's not to miraculous, but I started out as a health coach.
::And you know, focusing on, you know, anti-inflammatory diets and helping people change their habits. And my neurodivergent brain thought that it was the most boring thing on the planet.
::I was like, I do not want to make one more meal plan.
::I do not want.
::To like I was already doing all.
::Of these things for me and you know the.
::The health the health coaching world is just didn't feel like a good fit for me, so I started to think I was like there's gotta be something more to this.
::There's gotta be something more I feel.
::And even in my own health journey, I felt like there was something missing.
::And that's what really led me to, you know, the work by like Gabor Maté, who's like a trauma expert.
::And the connection with chronic illness and trauma.
::So I went down a neurodivergent hyper focus rabbit hole, read a whole bunch of books, found coaching, you know, materials to help make my coaching.
::practice more trauma informed.
::And now I'm a coach and I use the n.e.r.m. model, which is there's a really, you know, kind of clinical name, the neuro effective relational model.
::And I use it on myself to like help me process my own trauma.
::And then I've also brought it into my coaching practice to help people.
::Just understand themselves in a different way.
::Like I always say, the difference between like mainstream coaching and trauma informed coaching is like mainstream coaching is big picture oriented.
::It's goal oriented.
::You're always looking towards the future.
::You always are like pushing towards a goal.
::On and it's very external and.
::And whereas trauma informed coaching is deep picture, so it's more grief work.
::It's more releasing.
::It's more and you can still combine the two like they go hand in hand.
::You can still be the goal that goal oriented, but the difference is when you hit a roadblock, you don't go.
::How am I getting in my own way?
::How am I blocking myself?
::How am how?
::What do I need to do?
::Why do I?
::How can I push harder?
::How can I try more?
::How can I?
::Go, go, go, go.
::Go more to get through this.
::Thing, whereas trauma and form coaching asks you to pause and go, does my nervous system feel safe, right?
::You know, because if my nervous system felt safe, I.
::Would be easily able.
::To keep going.
::So that's where I kind of differ in my like, I don't believe in self sabotage because I understand that self sabotage is not you getting in your own way.
::What is really self sabotage and things that you know, like being lazy or procrastination, those are just your nervous system.
::You're outside.
::Your window of tolerance.
::So once I learned all of these things, it was like.
::All of a sudden, I felt less shame.
::I felt like I could go.
::I could get through things easier.
::I understood myself more and it was like only a matter of time before I incorporated that into my practice and helped other people feel less shamed through understanding their nervous system.
::In these ways too.
::So how does it?
::Actually look in.
::In practice I understand what you're talking about, but.
::When it comes down to.
::Like day-to-day stuff, how does that look?
::How do you?
::When it comes to day-to-day stuff.
::If you always.
::Keep like nervous system safety in mind when it comes to, you know, doing the things you need to do.
::The most important thing the nervous system needs evidence.
::The at the language of the nervous system is evidence, so it needs to know that your needs.
::Will be met?
::If not now, then later.
::So say you come up against a task for you know, simplicity and you really, really don't want to do it, but you really, really have to.
::And for some reason there is this block.
::If you shame yourself and you're like, you're so lazy, you're just a procrastinator.
::Why just push through and do this thing?
::You'll thank yourself later.
::That is just compounding more shame.
::And you're gonna continue to hit that cycle in the future.
::Like it's gonna be a continual shame cycle
::So instead you go OK what is it about this task that's making me feel unsafe?
::What is it about this that or are there some needs that are unmet that are making it hard for me to do this task because I'm outside my window of tolerance today?
::Not because of this task, but because of other factors.
::So we're always trying to make sure that our basic needs are met.
::Our emotional needs are met, and when those things are met, then roadblocks.
::It just comes it.
::It comes a lot easier.
::It might feel uncomfortable.
::But it edges on being able to tolerate it because when you there's a difference between discomfort and dysregulation.
::So if you're feeling dysregulated, that's where your freeze.
::Is coming in.
::So like, that's where a lot.
::Of people like blame themselves for procrastinating, you're not procrastinating.
::You're gonna freeze response.
::So how do you get back inside your window of tolerance
::and help yourself like ride the edge of like, OK, this is comfortable, but I can keep going without completely throwing yourself into a freeze response and a lot of that has to do with making.
::Understanding whether or not your needs are met, and sometimes you have to go back and meet unmet needs from the past that you didn't get met in the past so that.
::You're able to.
::Be able to meet your needs now because a lot of us shut down our needs, especially coaches, especially people in the healing profession.
::We shut down our needs in order to in order to survive essentially, and made the needs of other people more important.
::So now we're in this position where we have to figure out how to meet our own needs.
::And so that we don't throw ourselves into those freeze response or fight response or even people pleasing is a is.
::A stress response as.
::Well, I kind of went off on a tangent, but so if you have any.
::More questions for me.
::No, it's that's really interesting.
::I have people in my life.
::That that's the struggle with these issues.
::And I'm just like, I'm running things through my head going.
::I wonder if it's this.
::I wonder if it's that what do you do if you're one of those people and you're just, like, stuck in the freeze.
::Response and.
::But you really have to get something done and you've been in that that spot.
::What would you say would be the best thing that you could do to help somebody?
::In that situation, I know people that are in this situation, they're just like frozen and they can't really.
::They know they should do something.
::But they just can't make themselves do it.
::It's just like they procrastinate forever.
::Yeah. So
::There are, you know, they're different.
::So there's like a freeze response, which is like a moment.
::So there's.
::Like a threat.
::It throws you into a freeze response and you freeze temporarily, right?
::And then there is chronic stress that leads to burnout, and a burnout is essentially like an intense freeze response, which is your nervous system saying I'm done.
::I'm done no more.
::You can't keep doing this to me.
::I'm going to fight you against this because it does not feel safe.
::So it's.
::If it's that, if it's this like chronic freeze burnout where it's like a thing that's consistently getting in in your way in your everyday life, it's time to ask yourself, like, how do I get back to safety?
::How do I get back to a place of feeling like I'm not fighting against my nervous system?
::Every single day.
::And it's all about safety.
::So like for me, I've experienced a lot of burnout.
::You know, I have three kids.
::I went through the pandemic just like everybody else.
::I've, you know, was pushing, pushing, pushing in a high stress job environment as a teacher for 10 years and what it really came down to for me, and this is going to sound so simple.
::And so silly.
::But like this is what the nervous system needs is like.
::Meeting my basic needs every single day and doing something and making it about me and feeling good in my body before I do other things.
::So what that looks like for me is like I get up in the morning.
::I I'm not a journaler.
::There's a lot of people that are journalers, not me.
::I have ADHD.
::I get it in the morning, but I take a minute to, you know, do the ritual of my coffee and I sit and I do my coffee and I kind of talk to myself and I check in with my energy and I'm like, where is my energy actually at?
::How does my body feel?
::And I start.
::Asking myself these questions of.
::Like where is?
::What do I really need to get done today versus what is my body capable of doing today and seeing if I can find some compromise in that?
::Because if we continue to push past our bodies capacity, we're just going to make it worse so.
::I've really simplified my life.
::One of the things that I specialize in that I help people in is boundary setting, evaluating how you spend your time, how you spend your energy, how you spend your money and how you, you know, how you expenditure and do.
::Output and setting boundaries as much as possible and having a really.
::Really simple life.
::So that you're not consistently pushing past your body's capacity.
::So this is like.
::Long term stuff you gotta do like a whole rehaul about how you're expending your energy, right?
::And start refilling your cup by going back to basics and meeting your basic needs, not just physical but emotional needs and learning.
::To be like.
::I feel sad today.
::Like what do I need?
::What do?
::I need.
::Do I need to cry?
::Do I need to call a friend?
::Do I just need to, like stare at the wall for 10 minutes and doing that with without any judgment?
::Because if you sit in judgment of yourself and you create that shame spiral, then your nervous system continues to be activated even in your freeze, and it's just perpetuating more of throwing you outside your window of tolerance or your capacity to.
::Cope with the stress of life.
::How would you help somebody who's stuck in?
::That they just like.
::They they've dug themselves into a hole.
::And they're just kind of.
::Like Frozen, you can see it when you talk.
::To them, they're that they're just.
::They know what they need to do, but they just can't make themselves do it.
::Yeah, I would.
::The first question I would ask them is, do you really need?
::To do these things.
::Well, they really need to do them because they're they need to survive
::Like what is that?
::I
mean it's like.
::OK, OK. So
::That's so that's so if they're in this.
::So they have to keep pushing to, like, make money to, like, play the game.
::Of and not even like they can't even.
::Get the inertia up to actually.
::Get a job to do that.
::I mean it's.
::Yeah. Yeah, that's a really.
::Really tough place to be in.
::I could.
::And the.
::The pressure that's already that they're putting on themselves too.
::I mean, it's not like they're oblivious to the need, but they just can't make themselves do it.
::So that is something that n.e.r.m. talks about a lot is like trauma happens when you internalize the failure of your environment as a personal failure.
::And so you're saying like, they can't, they just can't push through.
::They they're and the internal pressure they're putting it on themselves.
::My first question is like, is this pressure really something that you're putting on yourself or is this like environmental factors like the pressure of society?
::That you've internalized and you've taken on and you think that you're the one who has to fix.
::That's it.
::And sometimes just that and being able to see.
::That, oh wait, this isn't really my.
::This is the pressure.
::Of capitalism.
::And that's unfortunate.
::And yes, I have to keep working and like holding the both end of that and being like, OK, this pressure is coming not from within me.
::I'm not putting this on myself.
::This is the pressure.
::Of society, this is the.
::This is a pressure that my mom put.
::On me, this is a.
::A potential that I was supposed to fulfill because I'm not living up to my potential like that pressure has been has been conditioning and messaging.
::That's been going on my entire life, so it's evaluating really where the pressure is coming from and like placing blame where it belongs and releasing the pressure.
::And releasing the shame slowly, slowly, slowly, because if we if we do this too quickly, we can, you know, make matters worse.
::But like starting to like, excavate and really name where these pressures are coming.
::And yes, we need to make money.
::We also, you know, we have to do the job and we have to play the game of capitalism.
::We have to get.
::Up and we have to feed ourselves and we have to, you know, like I always, I always like as a, as a mother myself.
::It's like I have to get out about in the morning.
::It is not a choice.
::So some days when I'm in a freeze response.
::Like I have to make breakfast, I have to do this.
::I have to do that.
::I have to, you know, I.
::There are things.
::That I have to do because other people depend on those things.
::To survive, right?
::Not just thing, so the kind.
::Of internal talk that I do.
::With myself is like, OK, I'm going to get through all of these things, these necessary things, and then.
::I'm going to tend to my internal space and then I'm going to sit with myself and I'm going to.
::Be like, what do you need today?
::And listen to that and be like and there is some you.
::Know the people that.
::Do have some privilege to have the time freedom in order to do this work like that's also a thing too.
::Some people have to keep pushing through, and unfortunately that's just a fact of their life.
::They have to keep pushing through.
::They're on, they're on the wheel.
::They have to keep making money.
::They're not going to.
::Have the time.
::To do this, but those of us.
::Who can start to take the time in incremental ways to just talk to ourselves in a different way and be like where am I pushing where I don't?
::Really need to push.
::Is this really a necessary thing because a lot of times we're like I have to go to this event because it's for my business because it's for that because it's for this and you're.
::But why?
::Why do you have to do this thing?
::So that's why I.
::Talk about really simplifying our lives and sometimes.
::You have to.
::Go through a cocoon phase.
::And get back to and get back to basics and slowly, slowly, slowly start to meet your emotional needs in a different way, which could be like I need to sit under a weighted blanket and watch Netflix.
::But like you know, not all day long, but like I need for.
::For the rest of your life.
::The rest of your life like.
::I need that I need to be frozen for a little while and like de-shaming that need
::Like a lot of it is, de-shaming, like, I feel frozen and it's like I have to do this, do, do, do, do, do.
::And it's like maybe I just need to be.
::Maybe I just need to sit and I need to and I need to be.
::And sometimes when we surrender to that need and we tell our body.
::Ohh you're frozen.
::That's OK.
::I see you.
::I love you.
::Thank you for trying to protect me.
::And we gotta go to work today.
::And like holding.
::Both of those things, and the evidence over time.
::Your nervous system will start to feel safer.
::So like if the needs can't be met now, you talk to it in a way that the.
::Need will be met later.
::Am I am I?
::Explaining myself.
::You absolutely are like I know that.
::I do a lot like get up early and I'm go, go, go, go, go all day.
::But my secret thing that I do like almost every night.
::And we don't have television in our living room, but I have a television in my bedroom and I allow myself to watch TV for a couple hours every night.
::It's just a.
::I watch mindless stuff and I might do other things while I'm doing it, but mostly it's just to let my brain have a break.
::I'm not thinking about other stuff about business.
::I'm not letting my brain chatter at me.
::It's just.
::It's the promise I make to myself.
::There will be time this evening where we're just gonna just exist.
::It allows me to.
::Do a lot more during the day so.
::I'm not like.
::So yeah, so having that.
::I'm not working on into the night and then trying to lay down and go to sleep.
::It's like.
::So that's creating that to me is like your nervous system knows that it's.
::Going to get.
::A break later.
::Your nervous system knows that it's going to be able to decompress, so you're much more likely to be able to do the things that you need when you've created a safety net for your nervous system that it knows that it doesn't have to push forever.
::Because when it doesn't, when your nervous system doesn't see the end insight, then it's gonna make its own choices.
::It's going to go into a fight, it's going to go into a freeze, it's going to go into, you know, one of those, one of those nervous system responses.
::Right.
::But if you.
::Create a safety net like that like.
::OK, I understand we have to get these things done, but later we're going to have a chance to relax later.
::We're going to have a chance to breathe that is.
::People really underestimate the power of like self talk and self-care in that way and letting our bodies know that it will get the break that it needs later.
::You know, yeah.
::And it just allows you if you have something that you can.
::That your body knows that this is coming.
::The break is coming.
::It can just do a lot more for you.
::So I know you have a podcast.
::Do you want to talk a little bit?
::About that, cause.
::It seems kind of exciting to me.
::So my podcast is called 'You AF'.
::Which is so a lot of people.
::You know, it was really trendy, probably a couple of years ago when I, when I named my podcast to talk about being, you know, like successful AF or spiritual AF and.
::I just kind of came up with this concept of like how about we become the most authentic we can be and become like as.
::Yeah, just like the most ourselves we could possibly be.
::And that is what my podcast is all about.
::So it's all about like trusting your body, trusting your intuition, trusting source, or whatever you believe in, and also and through that authenticity than shifting into more authentic relationships.
::Like if I were to really name myself something, I'm.
::I'm a relationship coach because trauma doesn't happen in isolation and it can't heal in isolation, and we heal through relations.
::Through authentic grounding, beautiful relationships.
::And that's what I talk about on my podcast I talk about and I also talk about generational trauma and parenting and boundaries because boundaries are like a really key piece of authentic, meaningful relationships.
::I did like.
::No, I mean trauma, really.
::Yeah, yeah, there's I, yeah, I talk.
::Yeah, I talk about the.
::Nervous system like I'm.
::I talk about a lot of different.
::Things, but they're.
::All under this under arching theme of authenticity and relationship.
::And yeah, I really love it.
::It's my baby.
::I have a project called the evolution of healing, and I have a couple evolution of healing interviews up there, a couple more are going to be coming out in September, and those are just like peoples healing.
::Journeys and how boundaries played in and how the small changes played in and like how they're self talk has changed how their relationships have changed throughout their, the arc of their, you know, so to speak - their
::Heroes Journey of Healing and those are those are one of my one of my favorite parts of my podcast as well.
::Yeah, stories are so great.
::I just love hearing everybody's journey because we never get to where we are by accident.
::It's a culmination of the decisions we make and the changes that we make in our lives.
::And nobody's static.
::It's like the person we were last year is not the person we are today.
::Because things change.
::I honestly feel like I've lived multiple lifetimes within this one.
::I'm like I don't.
::Know who that person was.
::10 years ago, like I'm completely different and we're always evolving and changing and the more we embrace that and the more.
::We get to.
::Hold, you know, nuance and in in all of that the easier.
::And more capable.
::We become of healing trauma and moving forward with the life we really want.
::Yeah, I think that's really important the.
::The whole.
::Recognizing that we aren't the same person we were before and it's OK to change and it's OK to have new boundaries or to create boundaries in your life.
::Yeah, and boundaries, not just for you.
::They're for other people too.
::If you have boundaries, it helps you to recognize that other people might have boundaries.
::And then you can have better relationships with them because you can respect.
::Their boundaries.
::Yeah, I always talk about how boundaries work.
::Is so multifaceted, like a lot of people think of it as just protection and but it's protection.
::But it's also connection, because when we let people know where we are, where we're at, they actually come closer because they it takes the mind reading out of our relationships and then also it lets people know like where our limits are.
::And like, what's OK and what's not OK?
::And a big piece of boundary work?
::Is noticing that other people have them and that it's OK for them to have them, and that when people set boundaries with us, that's not a sign that they're rejecting us.
::That's not a sign that they don't that they that they don't want a relationship.
::With us, that's a.
::That's a sign that they're trying to maintain.
::A healthier relationship with us.
::And I like will could.
::Shout from the Boundaries mountain top for forever like that is my absolute passion in the work that I do is boundary setting.
::It's one of those things that it seems like it's becoming more trendy now to talk about boundaries that I find that as people really start to understand boundaries.
::How much richer their lives can become and how much richer relationships can become?
::Because it.
::Allows you to.
::It allows you as you.
::Said to go up to the.
::Gate to their boundary.
::You know where the boundary line is, you can meet.
::Them and have the chat over the fence.
::Yes, exactly.
::There's actually this study that I love sharing about.
::I wish that I could give credit where credits due, but I can't remember the.
::Name of the study
::But they had children on a playground and it did not have a fence around it.
::And the children, and they told the children they said the same thing to the children.
::And this and then the you know the.
::The other version of the study like they're.
::Like you can play wherever you want.
::But in the in the first version of the study, the kids stayed really close to the center on the playground because they didn't know where the edge was.
::They didn't have enough security to venture out and get closer to the edge of the perimeter, but there was a forest that they could have played in.
::There was a big field that they could.
::Have played soccer on and they didn't.
::Venture out.
::They stayed really close because you want to feel secure.
::And then in the next version they put a fence around the playground and they told them the same thing.
::You can play wherever you want and just the fence created so much security for these kids that they ventured.
::Out and they.
::Were climbing on the fence and they were climbing the trees and they were playing soccer in the field and just knowing where the limit.
::Is create so much security for expansion and that's what boundaries does in our relationships.
::Like when you know where the line is, you can come right up against it and you can you know it.
::It creates a moment for connection and expansion and conversation that.
::A lot of people.
::Are afraid to go up to that line because they're not sure where it is
::That works with kids too, and.
::And you know, there's when I was young, it was like.
::There's rules, family rules.
::And the things that your family accepts as you know, their norms and standards that.
::If you if you work with boundaries rather than rules boundaries go both ways because there's somebody on either side of the boundary line and it allows them to know where the boundaries are.
::But it also lets them know where they can connect with you.
::It's, it's that point of connection.
::Yeah, exactly.
::Our boundaries and so.
::When you have kids and you allow them to have boundaries as well and you teach them how to express their boundaries to adults because adults are notorious for rolling over kids boundaries and they don't know how to defend their boundaries in a respectful way.
::Yes, those.
::Speak to that or like.
::I'm just.
::I'm agreeing with you.
::And also, yeah, I have lots to say, but I was just waiting for you.
::I was just nodding yes thing and waiting for you to.
::Finish and then I have lots to say about this.
::OK. Well, you go, girl.
::Because it's all about.
::You, not me.
::OK so.
::Basically, boundaries are a way for children to maintain access to choice and agency.
::Choice and agency are the thing are weapons against trauma.
::When you have access to choice and agency and you instil access to both of those things in your children's life and model, maintaining access to those things through things like boundaries, speaking your expectations, you know allowing children to decide and not like simple things like what they put in their bodies.
::Like if they like you present the food like you're like, here's the food, but like, not forcing them.
::To eat like.
::Allowing them choice and agency of all those things they're going to grow up.
::Having access to those things the whole time.
::So now in adulthood, they're in these relationships and they know that choice and agency is an inherent human right that no one can infringe on those things.
::So they are able to then notice the red flags in their adult relationships.
::And they are much less likely to get into toxic environments because they have experienced what it's like to have choice and agency, so they will know when their choice and agency is being infringed upon.
::And that is why teaching children, through modeling these things and doing these things for ourself.
::Is so, so important.
::Because those of us.
::Who didn't have choice, who didn't have agency when we were younger?
::Because our parents didn't allow it or they didn't know they didn't have the right tools.
::They didn't understand how trauma works.
::We didn't have those things.
::We are now having to fight to get those things back, which is trauma healing.
::In adulthood.
::So it's like we're now here, you know, trying to figure out where we do have access to choice because a lot of times like when we're in those freeze responses, we don't feel like we have a choice.
::We don't, but like we when you're stuck and you feel like you don't have a choice, that is a sure clue that you are in a trauma response.
::And the best thing you can do to get out of that.
::Is go where are my choices?
::Where is my agency?
::I love that I just tied that back.
::I just.
::Had that thought, where is my?
::Choice, where is my agency?
::That is the best way to simplify getting out of a freeze response is just trying to find the a little tiny space where you have a choice.
::I'm sorry, I don't.
::I don't know if you can hear the noises.
::OK, sorry, you'll have to cut that out.
::I'm not going to cut it out.
::Give me one.
::Give me one.
::Give me one second.
::They're like there's.
::Like kicking a ball and I don't.
::Want it to?
::Hit the.
::Door. OK, no worries.
::Katarina is also homeschooling mom and we were just dealing with the homeschooling mom.
::Drama in in life because you know life and I love kids being part of the podcast.
::Ohh wait, always trying to juggle.
::It's just like.
::They happen.
::It's part of life.
::Yeah, yeah, they're absolutely wonderful.
::They are my they are my joy.
::And also I'm exhausted.
::It's just first season.
::They're going to grow up and then they're going to move away and.
::You're going to be.
::Like ohh no.
::It went so fast.
::Yeah, I think about that a lot and I'm like.
::I don't know if I'm abnormal in this way or that I I'm like I want my kids to move away so badly, I like, cannot wait for that day because I know I love them.
::I want them here if they want to live with me forever.
::I really hope they don't, but I don't think that I'll suffer from emptiness syndrome because I had my kids so young.
::That I went from being a.
::kid. Like I had my oldest at 23 so and then I and then I had kids like I never really had my own life before that.
::So I'm like really looking forward to when they're grown and they have their own lives and.
::They're having grandkids.
::And I'm gonna be the best grandma ever
::And it's going to be fantastic.
::But I also want to travel.
::To Europe and like.
::Let them be on their own.
::Yeah, everybody's got their own thing. I was a mom my whole adult life. I started having kids when I was, like, 21, and I had my last one when I was 44 and she just moved out this year.
::Oh, wow, how many?
::How many kids do you have?
::Five. Wow, I have.
::I have 3, and I'm done.
::I don't know how people have more.
::Than that well.
::I had them in two.
::So I got to I gotta do over.
::I don't know.
::Maybe me and my partner will have another baby.
::We’re not sure yet.
::You know.
::You know, really.
::Life happens and you never know, and I.
::I wouldn't trade any of them.
::They all have brought so much interesting
::Experience to my life, they've all enriched my life and in a lot of different ways, and they're all really interesting human beings, which is like they're adults now, so they they're more like friends than kids cause.
::I'm not responsible for.
::So your relationship?
::Yeah, you're.
::I'm like so I have my oldest is about to be 11 and like I'm already noticing that shift like his friends are a little bit more important.
::You know, he only comes to me when he, like, really needs me when he doesn't need me as much anymore.
::And like there's a.
::Part of me that's just like I miss him.
::But I'm also.
::Like almost one down.
::Y’know.
::Yeah. Yeah, it's really.
::There's a there's a part with kids where
::It's like you're.
::Teaching them all the.
::Stuff you.
::Know, the, just the basics.
::This is how to be a human being stuff.
::And that ends about 10, 9/10 in there - and then they start becoming like.
::Practicing to becoming adults and so you're more like a cheerleader in that in that phase.
::And you sometimes you have to like push them back in the boundaries and then when they get to be teenagers.
::It's just like.
::They're done.
::All you can do is just like, really, if they ask for your counsel, you give them counsel.
::But mostly you just.
::Like cheer them on
::Go, go go.
::You can do this.
::Yeah, that's what I'm really looking.
::Looking forward to and like a lot of our home schooling is like helping my children like follow their own interest and learn through experiences.
::Like we kind of do a mix of like I was a teacher for.
::I worked in education for 10 years in the US
::And then and now.
::So I do, you know, some phonics and reading instruction, but most of it's like unschooling.
::So, like my daughter.
::That's what I did.
::So my daughter like, like she's 7 going on 8 and her home school project right now it like she can already read her home school project right now is her.
::She just got a pet Guinea pig and she's figuring out responsibility and how to take care of it and realize that.
::You know, and also we're learning about how to create safety for like another living creature and like and like listening to the sounds it makes and like, does it feel comfortable?
::Does it want
::You to hold it.
::So I'm, like, teaching her about boundaries and choice and agency, which I think are the foundation of what everybody should learn always.
::Through taking care of this pet, we also have a garden going and we you know we're learning to you know do all of that and we cook together and like my.
::Oldest, like he's he feeds.
::Himself, like he's always been kind of a he wasn't really a picky eater until the pandemic, and then he became like kind of a picky eater.
::And instead of like freaking out and like forcing him to eat, I taught him to cook.
::So now he feeds himself, you know?
::So it's just like looking for these opportunities with them to like foster independence and, like, help them like, follow their own interest in a way that's going to benefit their lives and make them because we're not raising kids.
::We're raising adults, like you said, like, they're, like learning.
::Gotta be adults.
::And you know, and yeah, there's sometimes I have to sit them down and be like, hey, you can't speak to people that way.
::Let's try another way to get what you want, because like it's OK to ask for what you want, it's OK to ask.
::For what you.
::Need, but you're more likely to get it.
::With kindness. Honey, you know.
::Yeah, well, there's always.
::That we kind of have a like.
::We kind of have a cursing problem with my oldest right now, but he can control it because he's not like this at camp.
::He's not, you know, he's in summer camp right now.
::He's not like this outside the house.
::But at home he just, like, lets it all hang out and it's F word this
::And F word that.
::And then.
::Like a playful like just.
::Like it's not, you know, he doesn't.
::He's not like screaming.
::He's not like calling people names.
::He doesn't really call people names, but now my.
::3 year old is.
::Is saying these things and also probably because.
::Of me, I'm probably part of.
::The problem too, because you know, I stubbed my toe and.
::It happens, but now we're like in this whole lesson about, like, what effective communication is
::And like that is our home school right now.
::Like, that's what we're focusing on.
::He's going to camp. He’s
::Doing a lot of physical activity.
::We're talking, but also like he's realizing through how much physical activity is that he wasn't eating enough, but because of instilled this like choice and agency around their food.
::Like he's like Mom, you need to pack.
::More like I'm moving my body so much I need more food, which led to a conversation of more of just anything.
::Or we need more protein and fat because those are the things that.
::Really. Give us energy, you.
::You know, and so it's just like bringing in life skills when it's as close to home as possible when it's as close to something that they can relate to as possible.
::And it's just like.
::Really incredible. Incredible to.
::Watch, but also there's moments where he's like mom.
::I saw this tiktok about the Crusades.
::What are the Crusades and we end up like talking about the Crusades and how the Crusades are kind of still happening in today's world.
::You know, and bringing it home and.
::So I just.
::Absolutely love the directions my kids take me in and I learned so much through their interest and it's really wonderful.
::And they start, like my oldest son starts.
::His own businesses all the.
::Time you know he was selling, he's like raising.
::Fish in a pond.
::My parents house and like selling them to people at a market like.
::They're just really cool.
::Kids and I don't sit down at a table and home school.
::Them all day.
::They are just living life and I'm there to support them and it's.
::What I did, and all three of them, when they were 13, I plugged them into an alternative school, and they all graduated at 16 and they had that little important piece of paper that said.
::I did what the government wanted me to do and the whole time they were going to this alternative school, we were having conversations about, you know, I can get you Cs and Ds at home.
::I wouldn't because I never graded anything that they.
::Did . But you need to really.
::It's a game, and the winners get A's and I don't care how you get those A's, and that was kind of a crucial point, so they were clever.
::I mean they did things and they got A's, and they all graduated in three years and.
::And they all got launched when they were like 16.
::They had jobs and they had ways to make income.
::And by the time my sons, two of my sons, were.
::19/18 and 22.
::They bought our house from us.
::Which was. That's incredible.
::That's really.
::Yeah, I really want.
::Like those are.
::The skills that I want to instil in my kids, like we talk about money all the time, you know, and like.
::How to budget and how to save and you know all those kinds of things like kids, I did not learn that and now I'm in adulthood and I'm having to teach it to myself now at 35.
::Because like I have my.
::Own business now and like I've.
::You know, I always lived it.
::The truth is, like in the US, like I lived pay check, paycheck to paycheck, with, with my teaching job.
::Like I didn't have enough money to save.
::I didn't have enough money to, like, do these things.
::So it's just like you got money.
::You spent it on what you needed, like there was no real money management in that, and now I'm having to learn that at 30, you know, almost 35 and.
::Being able to like, teach.
::My kid, as I as I'm learning about.
::You know, real like life, adult skills that everybody needs
::Yeah, adulting, it's a thing.
::Adulting
::It's a thing.
::So what is the one thing that you would like to leave our audience with today, man, we've.
::Talked for a long time.
::Yeah, that happens with me.
::I'm sorry.
::Not sorry.
::I love it.
::It's been a great conversation.
::All about the things I'm really.
::Interested in too so.
::Yeah. So what is the
::One thing that I want.
::To leave people with today.
::The more you can release yourself from shame, the easier you will be to pull yourself out of however you feel, and it doesn't get easier.
::But you do get.
::Better and quicker at it when it comes to healing.
::So I just like focusing on like, why do I feel shame right now and how can I release it and how can I just, like, love myself unconditionally and do better next time and just kind of get really good at working through and processing, you know, beating ourselves up.
::And that is really what I've come to learn is the most effective way to heal is to release shame and learn to process it in a way.
::That allows us to really access the feelings like beneath that which most of the time is grief.
::And if you can surrender to.
::Like, truly feeling those deep feelings.
::And from that place then accessing your choice and agency like that is the foundation of having a healing practice that will keep you moving even when you feel stuck.
::And even when you feel.
::Like you don't have a choice and it's hard.
::To go on, that's what I would say.
::So how do people get in touch with you?
::How do people get in touch with me so you can find me on Instagram
::I'm right.
::Now I'm taking a bit of a Instagram sabbatical until September 1st, but you can also e-mail me.
::At it's me.
::Dot Katerina at katerinacarries.com.
::And you could also sign up for my newsletter, which is all about boundaries, and if I could send you a link to sign up for that.
::And those are the places you can find me.
::Don't have a website yet because.
::Instagram and e-mail seems to be serving its purpose for now, so I have a kind of minimalist business.
::Well then and you have a website or a podcast and we'll be sure to put the.
::Link for that in the show notes.
::Yes, and.
::Too, and I do have your link.
::Tree which has all of the links.
::To all of the things that you offer.
::Oh, perfect.
::Perfect.
::So I will.
::And you do offer a lot of.
::Update my link
::Yeah, I need.
::To update my link.tree, but I'll update.
::It before this airs.
::OK, perfect.
::So if you can just share that
::Thank you.
::Thank you so much for joining Katerina.
::This has been an amazing conversation.
::I.
::Thank you so much for having me.
::Really appreciate it.
::Alright, take care.
