In this episode, Ken sits down with a cruise line supplier: John Devine, President of Michael J. Devine and Associates, a family-run business steeped in the wine industry's tradition.

Together, they offer insights into supplying wine to the travel industry, navigating the journey of Michael J. Devine and Associates from family dynamics, to cruise line deals, providing anecdotes and best practice examples along the way.

This episode offers the opportunity to understand the business of supplying F&B to cruise lines, and the importance of partnership with cruise line buyers - working together to adapt, finding products that meet everchanging guest expectations.

Tune in as John shares insights into relationship-building in the cruise industry, the evolving landscape of wine sales, rising interest into sustainable and low2no wine categories, and current ventures into better-for-you snacks.

Welcome to eat drink cruise, a podcast that supports and is really solely focused on the amazing food and beverage experiences it see across all the cruise lines in the industry and the people that really make it happen. CLIA the industry's cruise lines Association recently said, they expect 12% growth of passengers cruising in 2024. That's 4 million new cruisers cruising on cruise ships this year, which is really quite amazing. So why do people take cruises? Well, for me and foremost, I believe it's the incredible dining and beverage that you can experience on board. So we talk to the interesting people that make it happen and all the behind the scenes stories you get with that tune in weekly to eat drink cruise, a podcast that I host, my name is Ken Taylor, and welcome to the show. Joining us today, guys is John Devine. I affectionately call him Johnny and he affectionately calls me...

Kenny

...president of Michael J. Devine and Associates. You work with your brother and a whole team David, I don't actually know who was funnier, or maybe even honored to be with John or Dave, I'm gonna say maybe you but I'm it's still up in the air. So a reason why you should think David?

Well, David's a pretty funny guy. I will say that, you know, growing up, we had a great time. And you know, we'd play played a prank on one another every now and again. I guess his brothers do. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, we had we had a fun fun childhood, that's for sure.

We we traveled together. And most of your a lot of your clients experienced you two together, which was great. And also, you know, I have to say, congratulations on being named president of your group. Your mom is very much the boss still. And I've had dinner with your mom a couple of times. And she's one heck of a lady. There's no question when someone sits down with her at the table, I can assure you they're prepared. At least that's the perception I always got. And I'm assuming you are equally as prepared as President, when you're sitting down with Mom, tell me what that's like.

Yeah, mom still comes in the office every single day. So it's her love. It's her passion. You know, or my, my dad started the company back in October of 1983 on a rented typewriter in Miami Beach, California. So a lot of a lot of long nights, a lot of weekends up in Napa. And there's still just such a love and passion for her and for the rest of the family.

And you always wanted to work for the family. I mean, the business as it is your father, and you know, I'd like to hear that story. But you know, off the cuff. This is something you've been interested in doing. Since really young.

Yeah, you know, I remember when I was, you know, 12 years old, my dad was selling martini and Rossi. And yeah, it was always a love for him. And he met my mom and, you know, fell in love. And, you know, they again, they opened up the business back in, back in 83. But, you know, my brother and I funny story, we were in Hong Kong, when I was 17 years old, my brother was 15. And, and we had the the idea that we're going to approach my parents and find out what you know, when we're going to join the business. We're talking about it. And I guess I was nominated to be the one to ask them. And we were at dinner. And I said, so, you know, we would really love to join the business. And my dad and mom both simultaneously said, I don't think it's a good idea. My brother and I were literally speechless. Didn't know what to say it was kind of a quiet dinner from then on out, to say the least. But you know, they explain things to us. And interestingly enough at that age 17 and 15. Back then, you know, your parents tell you, you can't do something, you tend to want to do it even more. Guess you know when you're a teenager.

And your brother your brother probably was like last time I give you that responsibility to you, some salesman you are. So you grew up in Rancho in California and are in Corona really but you moved to Rancho is that right? And then you really got your personal start. And that part of the country?

Yeah, worked for a company called Kindig wine company then in retail sales. Today it's called constellation. And then I moved on to work for southern wine and spirits for probably about a year and a half in in their sweetest office and then at which point my my parents asked me to, to essentially move to Florida and reopen our Florida office that's in that was in August of 97.

And you moved to Florida and somehow you got down the cruise line track. I know you also provide service to the airline industry. So this would be the duty Free World. How did cognac play into this story?

Yeah, so funny enough, you know, my dad was very, very good friends with jock Hardy and Benedict Hardy. And you know, as sometimes small family businesses do, they struggle at the very beginning. And you know, it was the 1984 Olympics. And people were coming in from all over the world. And in cognac was in high demand as as gifts. So my, my dad, my mom began to sell Hardy perfection, which is 150 year old unblended cognac. And that really is what kind of kept us in business. And it was duty free retail, quite honestly, that kept us afloat, you know, for the first couple of years.

So then you cut your first cruise line deal. And I think Paula, your wife was involved in that. And I'm just, you know, all the years we've known each other. I don't know that I've ever sat down with her for dinner with you. I know you've done that with other clients. Is she afraid to sit down with you and some of your better clients? What's that about? I just haven't I don't remember ever meeting her at the table anyways.

No, my wife is a very lovely person. Her father, Juan Carlos Maggi was actually my competitor when we first met, but yeah, later on, I guess you could say it played a little bit of a prank on her.

You have to tell me the prank. Now what what happened here?

Okay, so l was the... and just a fantastic human being. And I went to their house to celebrate several holidays, because I didn't know anybody when I first moved here. And anyway, so I had met my wife, and I don't know why I got this thought from but I said, you know, I really want to stand out. I think she's a beautiful girl. She's got a great personality, and I've got to do something different to stand out. And I'm on a where I got this harebrained idea, but anyway, what

what date was this? Like your first day? And or was it you guys dating while

it was our third date...

Oh my gosh.

So maybe it wasn't the smartest thing in the world to do. But anyway, I told Paula that they were nudists. I don't know why still to this day, but we still talk about it. And it's really hilarious.

You're told Paula that the client you're having dinner with is a nudist like a nudist colony member?

The both of them were? Yeah. The both of them were nudists. Yep. He was with his wife. Yep.

How do you? What did she do? I can't imagine.

yeah. So Paula called me probably three nights in a row leading up to our date with Ellen Linda. It was at a place called Martha's. It was a really nice paddlewheeler. In Hollywood, Florida. It was on the intercostal waterway. And it was white tablecloth. And again, I don't know what got into me. But anyway, it did. And I said what I said and so she called me three nights in a row. She said she had spoken with her mother, and had no idea what to think or what to do. And I got to the restaurant early, because I knew Alf & Linda is so well I let them in on the little prank. And Alf literally fell off his chair dying laughing. So he thought it was funniest thing in the world. And so did Linda as well. Because they got over their house, probably, I don't know, probably 2025 times. I was always over there. So my wife comes in and she sits down and she's really nervous. Most of my girlfriend obviously at the time, but halfway into the meal, I let her in on the little secret. And she laughed pretty hard. And then she kind of looked at me. And then she started laughing again. So our first few days were really great. And we had a lot of fun. And from there on out. The rest is sort of history, you know, yeah, I'm later and

yeah, two kids later, and at least you got out front end that John Devine was going to be John Devine, at least the John that I know, most of your clients know, what's up with you?

I don't know what else to say, besides, I guess.

Life is critical to the success of anybody. And you know, your industry is about relationships. But let's start with the first one really, which was your dad, I mean, tell me about like, he is an icon in the wine business. And obviously, 27 years now you guys have been doing this. Obviously, he's left us a wonderful person. But in your memory, like, tell me about what it was like once you were started, you know, really did start working for him and getting into the business. You know, was there something or today as President what comes to mind that, you know, your dad would always tell you?

my dad was always he was a thinker. He was really, really funny. I guess that's sort of kind of where I get some of my humor from anyway. Or humor is a little bit different in some ways. But yeah, I mean, those two things. He was always driven. He came from little means and Lacrosse, Wisconsin, and always worked extremely hard. But at the same time, you know, he would always say, you know, when things got tough, we always knew that Things would be better. And so his famous line to most people that, you know, were facing difficulties was, This too shall pass. You know, there will be a brighter day. And so that was something that he always communicated to everybody that he that he loved and, and was with. So that was very, very important to him. This is true, you know, there's always a better day in front of us. So yeah, I'm really, really look back and think about that quite often.

And when you think about what the cruise industry has gone through, he would have been there right there saying, Listen, you know, what doesn't look good, but it's gonna pass probably gonna pass.

certainly with COVID, certainly of COVID, he would have said, Oh, my goodness, what what are we in for? But, you know, look at us now. Cruise lines right now are doing incredible. So it's great to see.

John you in my mind are a sales guy. I mean, that's what you do you move wine, you know, and you work with a lot of different people in the business. When I think of great sales, for me, obviously, on this side of the fence, I work with an agency, we sell our product. But I'm thinking, you know, traditional unit sales, like wine, for example. It's really about getting people to make a decision on a multi unit scale, right? Like, let's move some product. And my mentor in this area was my father in law, one of the things you always tell me, it's like, listen, I used to sell a lot of stuff. He was in the food and beverage business as well. And he's like, but really, I don't look at it as sales. Do you look at it as sales? Because in his mind, what I'm asking here is, it's a relationship business. How do you leverage that?

But it's a relationship business. You know, again, I've been in the wine business for over 30 years. So yeah, I mean, you get to know people. And in some cases, you can tell you another family like Linda, for example. You become close with people. And because you've been in the industry for as long as you have myself, I guess, you know, people do take what you say as good advice. Some do, some don't. But I try to always put myself in the other person's shoes, and look at it from their perspective. And that's the way I've always tried to approach things. What would I do if I was buyer for XYZ cruise line, for example, truth, honesty, and trying to have some fun along the way. I mean, we're, we're quite blessed to be in the business, we are, to be able to travel the world and be in the travel sectors is really incredible. So I'm very, very thankful and and appreciative of being in this industry.

I think the operators out there, I know respect you. I was one of them. Right? You took you took me on trips, you've taken others, I think you just got back from the UN Expo was that in Paris this year?

Yeah, it was. So we went over there and saw a lot of our international suppliers, we do that every year. In some cases, we do. In some cases, we don't many times, we don't but but we should go over there and see all of our as many suppliers as we can, and review our business because sometimes our suppliers can get caught up or we can get caught up. So it's always a great place, kind of a middle ground to meet with our suppliers and discuss business and then have a few, you know, good times in between.

So when you approach the selling of product on cruise lines, and there are some new players in the client world, right, that this is typically the beverage director category, or even the the VP of food and beverage and they call you and say, you know, John, I need to sell more wine. Like, what's your approach to that? Like, this is a really great business opportunity, because now you're basically be invited to have that conversation, how do you start that conversation?

Part of what we do is, you know, we look at a list and we evaluate it, you know, kind of a where the where the holes, I mean, this is like any salesperson, right? Where are the opportunities? Can you upsell, can you develop a new, exciting new program, whether that's around a single event, you know, like the Kentucky Derby and, and do a program around that, or, you know, women of the vine program, you know, where it's women winemakers around the world. So there's there's all kinds of great programs that cruiselines put together and we try to help with that and come up with new ideas to help drive revenue make a great statement on their program in and of itself. You know, diversity is very, very important. And in having women winemakers is absolutely incredible. And I don't think that we do enough as a as, as an industry to promote women in the industry.

That's one of your successful programs. Because obviously you keep a pretty good list of supplier products and your distribution channel. The suppliers approach you how do you pick the wines you are working with?

I would say it's a little bit of both. And, you know, a lot of times it's fit. I mean, you know, one that we've been working with, I think now for, I want to say it's been seven or eight years, maybe slightly longer than that is drawbar Tron. So we saw them both at Vin Paris as well as proline. So they've been a big player of ours, and they were already doing some business out there. But you know, us together is has been an incredible ride. And one of the new wines interestingly enough, I know we were going to talk about innovation, and one of the new wines that they have is called product called trouble. And it's unfined, unfiltered, organic product to vegan as well. And it's cloudy. And that's actually what trouble means in French. So anyway, it's really kind of cool. And so that's one of the latest and greatest, but that's the big partners we've been fortunate enough to represent.

Is there a demand coming to you from the cruise guys saying, Look, you know, sustainability is important. You know, in wine, you know, the global players are doing a lot of different things to address these, these expectations. So that's part of your agenda, really, to make sure we offer that?

yeah, I mean, it's becoming more and more popular around the globe. You know, over in Sweden, for example, you know, some of the biggest sales within Sweden is is in the organic category. And it's, it's growing that and biodynamic, which you know, will say to Arbitron is, is one of the main leaders of biodynamics. So yes, that's very, very important. Moving forward is going to be sustainability biodynamics. That category.

Yeah, and then other products, too. You guys are carrying fine His call is on your list that makes me now wonder I haven't asked you this question. But but what's your favorite cocktail? I mean, you drink a fair amount of wine that I that I know. But then you also have a cocktail from time to time. What's your favorite cocktail? We typically ask this question to our guests.

Yeah, I would, I would have to say, you know, Margarita is definitely one of my faves. I like it was a little jalepeno Actually, I like it on the more on the a little bit more on the sour side than most normal people do. And, and then I really, really enjoy so spicy Margarita, I'd have to say it's probably my favorite. Enjoy a lot of different cocktails. But I would say that one's got to be in there fresh lime juice that they do is absolutely delicious in that cocktail.

So the way you got yourself organized, you remain on the East Coast and your brothers on the West Coast. Right? And you guys entertain collaboratively from time to time. You're entertaining a lot of clients in Florida. Is there a restaurant that is your go to? I can't think when I'm thinking of this question, I don't know what it is, is there a spot or two that you just love to take people to?

in South Florida? One of my faves, I would have to say is probably a restaurant down in Wynwood. It's called Ucci. It's more of a kind of a sushi restaurant. But there's a little bit of fusion going on. And I absolutely love it. It's a little bit more on the healthier side. So you know, I traveled so much.

What's your guess on how much travel you actually get done in a year?

as of last year wasn't that bad. But you know, really started to speed up now. I think I've been traveling 50% of my time, all the way up until now, which is, you know, march 14. So I would have to say, probably 50% of my time so far. Now that will lean out. As we get more into the year. It's always it's always seems like January through May are always our busiest times. You know, we've got you know, conventions...

Also new for you guys. And this was interesting for me when you mentioned it, that you're offering other products. And I think you're getting now into the snacks category. So for you to kind of go down that lane. Tell me how it was inspired. And what exactly are you guys doing there?

Yes. So we were approached about doing snacks. And so one of the things that we are doing is better for you snacks. That's the only thing that we're really doing right at this moment. We're doing a little bit of crackers and stuff out of chili, for example, but better for you snacks is a category that we're really looking at. It was something that AVP Wyatt Cooper started looking into and we found that there's some interest in it. So we are pursuing it both for cruise in and for airlines right now. And we're excited about it. You know, my kids are 18 and 19 Right now, he's got little ones at home and that's what they you know, what they do at home is the better for you snacks and that's kind of how this thing kind of came about was families are starting to look at the snacks that they eat and they prefer to have, you know, no artificial colors or flavors and and those types of things. So it's really exciting. Adding to see and getting I wasn't as familiar with it as he was. I'm starting to learn more

Yeah, any customer, you know, interest that you started starting to feel out?

Um, I mean, we definitely are seeing it in the airlines for sure. So yeah, some of our large carriers are starting to look at it. Some people have said that they would consider it for crew bars and some other things, as well as some of the kids clubs. Because it just makes sense if it's better for you. And I mean, I just saw the other day, we're CFDA chips, which is one of the brands that we represent was in Publix. And that's great to see. That's obviously mainstream at that point in time.

That's awesome. And that trend, you know, the better for you thing. I mean, I believe it's even happening in wine, right? I mean, isn't there the whole low and no alcohol trend continues? I hadn't heard about it much in wine. But does the trend carry into wine? Are you carrying wines that are lower in ABV?

We certainly are. So one of the wines that we carry is Kendall Jackson, and they make a couple of low ABV wines. There are some wineries out there that have no alcohol in them and are absolutely on fire. You know, one of the ones we don't even carry is called giesen. And I know that that is absolutely doing incredibly well out there right now. People just love New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc, and Jason has done a good job making that wine as close to the one with alcohol as possible. I'm sure people like to taste. So that's what's important.

And yeah, if it makes you feel better, and you know, that's the trend. I know, my son's 21. So, for him, you know, he's probably not unlike your kids. They're a little more concerned. And maybe we were when we were that age. But I guess that's a great thing. I've really enjoyed, you know, traveling with you, John, and spending time with you over the years. And so I really appreciate you joining our little show here.

Let's do it. Let's grab a glass and, and toast.

Yeah. And hopefully we won't find ourselves in the same boutique hotel redesigning the interior lobby. Out with John, I just gotta tell you, listen, this was in Bordeaux, but it can happen. That's all I'm calling

Research and development. Kenny is research and development.

Thanks for joining the show. Looking forward to see you and we'll talk soon.

Great. Thank you so much. Appreciate the time