Episode summary introduction:

The focal point of our discourse centers upon the intricate process of managing grief, a universal experience that inevitably touches each of us at various junctures in our lives. As we traverse this poignant subject, we acknowledge the profound emotional turmoil that accompanies the loss of loved ones, relationships, or beloved pets. It is crucial to recognize that no individual should navigate this arduous journey in solitude; communal support is paramount. In this episode, we are privileged to welcome Brock Adam, our esteemed Valley Huskers chaplain, who shall impart his spiritual insights on coping with grief. Together, we shall endeavor to illuminate the path through sorrow, fostering a deeper understanding of how we might effectively process our emotions and continue to advance in our lives.

Thought for the day:

"When they talk about seeing our loved ones pass away as part of the circle of life , It is not easy to understand. If it helps, look around to those people in your circle to lean on."

Topics discussed in this episode:

Engaging in a discourse on the intricate nature of grief, this episode offers a thoughtful exploration of the emotions associated with loss, a universal experience that touches us all. The speakers, TC and Mad Dog, candidly share their personal narratives of grief, revealing their struggles and the societal aversion to discussing such a poignant topic. The inclusion of Brock Adams, a chaplain, enriches the conversation with a spiritual perspective, emphasizing the role of faith and community in the healing process. The dialogue navigates through the complexities of grief, addressing the myriad emotions that can surface, including confusion, anger, and profound sadness, all of which are valid responses to loss.

The episode underscores the importance of recognizing that grief is not a singular, linear experience but rather a multifaceted journey that manifests uniquely for each individual. TC & Maddog encourage leaning into one’s emotions, allowing oneself to feel the weight of sorrow rather than attempting to manage or suppress it. This theme is recurrent throughout their journey, as they emphasize that true healing comes from acknowledging and embracing the emotional turmoil that accompanies loss. The conversation highlights that one does not have to navigate this path alone; rather, it is crucial to seek support from those within one’s community, as shared experiences can foster a sense of connection and understanding amidst the isolation that often accompanies grief.

Ultimately, this episode serves as both an invitation and a guide for listeners to confront their own experiences with grief, offering practical insights on how to cope with the emotional challenges that arise. By fostering open conversations about loss and encouraging individuals to seek comfort in their support systems, the speakers aim to illuminate a path toward healing and acceptance. The episode concludes with a powerful reminder that while grief is a heavy burden to bear, it is a journey that can be undertaken with the support of others, allowing for a shared understanding of the human experience in the face of loss.

Walkabout takeaways:

1. The podcast emphasizes the universal experience of grief, asserting that everyone will face significant loss at some point in their lives.
2. It is crucial to recognize that grief is a complex emotional response that encompasses various feelings, including sadness, anger, and confusion.
3. Listeners are encouraged to lean on their community and support systems, as navigating grief alone can be overwhelming and unmanageable.
4. The episode highlights the importance of discussing grief openly, allowing individuals to express their feelings authentically and without judgment.
5. Spiritual perspectives on grief are explored, suggesting that faith can provide comfort and guidance during times of loss and suffering.
6. The discussion touches upon the non-linear nature of grief, illustrating that individuals may experience overlapping stages of grief, such as denial, anger, and depression.

More about E-Walkabout:

To learn more about Electronic Walkabout visit us at www.ewalkabout.ca.

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“St. Mike's Fortunes”

A special thanks to Steven Kelly, our technical advisor, who keeps trying to teach these old dogs new tricks when it comes to sounds and recording!!

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Electronic Walkabout. No one should have to walk through life alone. We share the good times, the bad times and the best times.

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The Electronic Walkabout. Well, good day everyone and welcome to another episode of Electronic Walkabout.

This is this episode we journey into a difficult subject which is managing grief. At one point in our lives, we will be faced with the loss of a loved one, a breakup, or from a long term relationships, and even the loss of a pet.

How do we manage these complex emotions when faced with this kind of loss in life, most, if not all have a challenge with dealing the emotions. And when it comes to this kind of loss, it will be overwhelming.

They also welcome back, Brock Adams to the podcast to give a spiritual perspective when faced with grief. For listeners who don't know Brock, he's our very own Valley Huskers chaplain. Well, Brock, welcome back to Electronic Walkabout.

You know, we truly appreciate your input and you really do add value to this podcast. So thanks for joining us.

Thank you so much for having me. It's a, it's a privilege and an honor to share some honest, you know, thoughts and feelings about, about different topics.

So I appreciate being on here and.

As you know, this is a pretty difficult topic that we're going to talk about and I think it's difficult more so because people don't know what to do with grief. They shy away from it. And as we're brought up, no one really holds us by the hand and say, okay, this is what's going to happen.

This is the best way to continue life after experiencing that loss. But one of the key things, and that's why we appreciate you, having you, is that there's a spiritual importance when dealing with grief.

Do you want to make a couple comments about that? And then I have a few pointed questions for you, Brock.

Yeah, I think, yeah, grief is, it's something we all encounter, it's something that we all go through. It's a very almost normal part of the human experience.

And some people maybe experience it more or to a greater depth than others, but there's no way to really go through life unscathed.

And so I think it's amazing that you are taking the time to talk about a topic that impacts everybody and impacts everybody at, at, at, at a deep level because since it is something that is such a unfortunate but natural part of the human experience.

I think it's great to spend some time thinking, discussing and reflecting on, on grief and what it entails and, and maybe not necessarily how to eliminate it, but. But more or less how to maybe deal with it in a way that's helpful.

Yes, I agree totally with you. And I'm going to be perfectly honest. We were meant to do this episode shortly after Wilkie had passed, but like most people, I tended to avoid it.

But over the last while, we've lost some, some very good people. I just thought it was timely. It was time to finally take the bull by the horns and actually deal with this topic.

Yeah.

Join us as we wander around this episode trying to find some light, help manage grief and how to still move forward in our lives. I don't know what to say about. Yeah, it's.

Yeah. Dead air. Dead air.

But first, as always, a thought for the day. When they talk about seeing our loved ones pass away as part of the circle of life, it is not easy to understand.

If it helps, look around to those people in your circle to lean on.

Very much so, that is, you can't get through these things by yourself. You have to lean on your community and the close ones that are near you for support.

You just hit the nail on their head and you can't do this by yourself. There's no way. And I'll just, I'll be perfectly honest with the listeners. You weren't meant to do this by yourself.

No, no. It's a literal heavy cross to bear. So don't do yourself a disservice and just try and push through this solo.

Well, Maddog, I'm not, I'm not going to lie to you, but this is going to be a different one, difficult one to travel down. We have both lost special people in our lives. To say that I know how to manage my emotions surrounding this would be the farthest from the truth.

And I know you joke about me and my emotions all the time, but we're going to be a little bit serious about this today just because maybe I might even find some light in this episode. It's fair and I think the best place to start really is the obvious. What is grief? Your thoughts on that?

I think grief is just the sadness and sorrow of missing somebody.

I think to sum it up simply, there's many layers to it and it is complex, but it is just, I don't know, I call it self induced sorrow, but it is just a sadness that one would feel for, you know, one of those aforementioned things that you spoke about. Not being in your life anymore.

You know what I love when I, when I ask these questions, you, you, you, you bring it down to earth where everybody can understand it. And then afterwards I like to share with the. I'll say.

The experts try to explain grief to the world and it's, it, it's a natural, complex, emotional, psychological, physical and behavioral response to any significant loss, most commonly to death of a loved one, but also a job loss, relationship endings or health diagnosis involving feelings of like, sadness, anger, numbness, confusion, and physical symptoms like fatigue or sleeplessness with no single right way to experience it as your unique personal journey of healing over time.

Yeah, I give the layman answer.

No, that's what we need, the layman's answer. Because at the end of the day, and it doesn't matter, what we're talking about here is going to be truly practical.

But when I read that, I pictured this tsunami of emotions that, that we're hit with. And the biggest question I asked myself, well, how the heck do I manage these emotions and where did I go to as a role model to help me through that?

And, and, and sure, I've, I've, I've experienced loss in my life. I remember when I was about 15 years old, my grandmother passing, and that was probably my first exposure to, to gr.

Of course, all you're doing is looking around at the adults saying, well, what's going on here? How do we move forward with this? What am I supposed to do?

You try and model yourself in their behavior, but if they're all sad and crying, it's just okay, well, then that's, I guess what you do.

And I don't, I don't think it's that simple. But you recall the first time that, that, that was brought into your life. Was it while you were a kid or later or.

I've always been a. Call it a bit sensitive, if you will, and that's fine, and I'm okay with that.

Just, just to be clear listeners, he probably didn't even know he was sensitive until he.

Oh no, I knew, trust me. But I didn't really like. I think I was fairly fortunate.

My grandparents were the first kind of loss that I experienced and I was in my kind of late teens, so you know for sure that that was upsetting and whatnot. And a very close friend of mine's dad passed away when we were in grade 12, so I still felt that.

But my, my biggest first loss was my mom 25 years ago now. Lord, that's a long time ago.

Wow, that is a long.

Yeah, Yeah, I was 29 and yeah, that was, that was life altering, if you will, because she was my confidant, she was my go to, she was my kind of. She made sense of everything for me. So when I lost that, I was, I felt definitely lost. But it was, yeah, it was, it was tough.

Any parental loss is tough or any loss in general. It's just sometimes the closer they are being your immediate family, it definitely. The sting is a lot more raw and lasts a lot longer.

It certainly does. And I always tell people that truly when you're faced with somehow trying to figure out how those.

Managing those emotions just truly be kind to yourself. Yeah.

And it's funny because it's, it's almost not even managing the emotion because you can't manage it if it's there and you're feeling it. You need to live in it for a bit.

Because I think sometimes when we say you have to manage your emotions, it's like, you know, managing your, your budget or managing your household, you can't really manage emotions because those are truly raw feelings that are just there.

Yeah, it' funny you say that. I agree with you.

When I was kind of looking at the research on this, they, they refer to it as the symptoms of grief, as if grief was some kind of illness. And I just thought, well, that that is kind of odd because it's, it's, it's a natural, complex thing. So how can you say that?

And don't get me wrong, I. And, and it would be perfectly natural if you lost, let's say a parent, that you would start to feel these emotions.

But it's a question more of understanding what they are and, and how to move forward with them. And I love what you said. You can't really manage them. You have to kind of.

And just to paraphrase you deal with them in the moment just to get it right.

Yeah, you're going to kind of ride them out is how is what I say. It's like, you know, I have no issue. If I feel like crying, I will cry because if I feeling it that way, I can't go, I need to manage this.

I'm going to park it for now and I'm going to cry in three hours when I have time. That's not how it works when it presents itself. You just have to hold on and just let it go.

Because if you, the more you stifle or quote unquote, try and manage them, you're not addressing them as they appear. You're just waiting to, till it's a convenient time.

And I don't think there is such a thing as a convenient time because, you know, you just put that aside and let's deal with that tomorrow. But guess what? Something else happens, another crisis happens. Before you know it.

That or those emotions that are associated with the loss of that loved one are somehow, I'll just say stuck. And they'll need to be dealt with. Yeah.

And if you keep compacting them down to quote, unquote, deal with them later, you will eventually hit a boiling point where it is all going to come out all at once. And that's necessarily, is not a good thing either.

No, not at all. You often hear the, the five stages of grief.

And I, and I thought to myself at one point, I don't, I don't think the same way now, but I'll share those, those stages with you. But I thought to myself, if I understand the stages I'm going to go through and what they do to me, then I got it made. I just, I just.

Then you can manage them.

Well, getting back to that point you made, but you have no control over when those emotions will kind of pop up. The stages aren't linear. They don't say, okay, well, I'm done, I'm done. Stage one, so I'm ready for stage two.

Yeah. Sometimes those stages overlap a whole lot.

They overlap. You might bounce back into one. And, and truly we, we started out saying, okay, well, don't think you can do this by yourself.

But just by this discussion, there's no way that you can do this by yourself.

And it's not that somebody can do it for you. It's just, maybe just having that shoulder to lean on and that ear to bend just to talk through things.

The first stage of grief is denial, because you don't want to believe at this time they can't be real.

No.

So as an immediate reaction, you might doubt the reality of the loss because it might help you to deal. Yeah.

Because then you're not having to face it at that moment. Nope, nope, that couldn't happen. So I'm going to manage that emotion later.

So, you know, and I'm just going to speak a little bit from the old job when we had to bang on someone's door and advise them they had lost one of their loved ones.

Probably one of the worst things you can do in that job because there's, there's certainly no happy end goal you want to, you want to do, share as much compassion as you can, but Knowing very well that as, as we've already said that at the time, they're not going to believe you. So you have to do the best you can to kind of bring some reality.

And there's, you know, that to our previous point of when these emotions hit, there could be anger, there could be sadness. So I couldn't imagine the barrage of, of those overwhelming feelings that one would get delivering that news as a part of your job.

Like, and, and I don't, I don't like as much as they, they give direction and guidance on how to do that. I mean, it's, it's no different than feeling the emotions. Like you're literally watching someone, you've ruined.

Their life at that point, essentially. Right.

Yes. So the second stage, anger, which seems, seems reasonable as far as an emotion is concerned. And it's, it's not rare that you won't see anger.

What we're really talking about is anger. It's not rare to also feel angry towards the situation or person you lost. So you actually get mad at that person that's, that's left you.

How could you do this to me?

Yeah. Bit of a selfish feeling, but yes, like, it's. Yeah, I can understand that one.

We had so much time left to spend in this world and you walk out of it. I mean, you just talk about your, your mother being that confident. I don't have a confident in my life anymore. And I felt the same way about my dad.

And I thought to myself, I really got to be patient about that. And, and I do talk about it a little bit in my, my first book. But it, at the end of the day, you still want that person you can go to.

Not to replace that.

No, I can't.

But just to truly have that someone that you can trust and speak to.

But, and I'm sure you'll agree with me, but when it came to my dad, like it was, he was so comfortable that you could share anything, any problem, and he had this calm nature about him that just made you feel so good. No matter how big the challenge, it.

Was a safe place and a safe person to talk to.

Yes. It's reasonable that you would get upset at these people.

Yeah, there would definitely be. Yeah. Unresolved things, I'm sure possibly that would, you'd be angry that you didn't get to, to deal with her.

Okay, here's, here's the next stage is called bargaining. And it's a stage of grief that helps you hold on to hope.

In a situation of intense pain, you might Think to yourself that you're willing to do anything and sacrifice anything if your life is restored to how it was before the loss.

Right. That's the. I would give anything, I would do whatever and whatnot. But that's unfortun, unfortunately, too little too late. Right.

But I can see how that might be a coping mechanism for some people.

Yes. And let's, let's be frank about that, is that nothing's going to change the reality you're living in right now.

You can, you can make all the bargains in the world.

You can, you can look to a higher order and, and, and say, God, if you just bring that person back to me, I will do A, B and C. It's not going to work though. Brock.

I'm, I'm just wondering, do you literally have people come to you and say, hey, I need some help because I've just lost a loved one and what kind of direction might you might give them if they do come to you?

Yeah, so I, so I'm not a counselor. I'm not trained in that field. I was a pastor, youth pastor for over a decade.

And I'm somebody who has really grown up connected to Christianity, believing in God and Jesus.

And so that's been an instrumental part of my life when I try, try to, I guess initially, and like I said, not a trained counselor, but I am someone of deep faith. And so I try to look at things from a, maybe a biblical or spiritual perspective.

There might be people who have a different opinion or approach than me, but I just kind of, I have a certain way that I like to approach things. And so for me, kind of how I phrase things.

So if someone is a person of faith, something that I personally believe is that, um, like my, my faith should determine and dictate the circumstances in my life. The circumstances in my life shouldn't determine or dictate my faith. So God is God regardless of what's happening in life.

The Bible's a Bible regardless of what's going on in life.

So whether life is great and awesome or whether life is hard, the truths that I believe about, about God and his character and who he is, that's still the same no matter what. And so there are people who will go through a ridiculous amount of hardship and grief and sometimes there'll be people who go through a lot less.

And so neither are an indication of God's love or God's acceptance. To me, it's more or less of. It's a symptom of the broken nature of the world. That we live in.

And so I think for some reason a lot of us feel as if we are or we should be immune from tragedy and hardship in this world because then we go like, why me? Or why did this happen?

But if we look at things historically speaking through the existence of humanity, or we just look at our modern day context, there isn't a group of people that have ever had a trouble free existence. Grief, sorrow, hardship, pain, tragedy, that's just a part of the human experience.

And so for me, what I, what I personally believe is that grief, sorrow, hardship, tragedy, I tried to normalize that to an extent where it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you as an individual because these things have happened or are happening. Sometimes life is hard, sometimes life sucks.

Sometimes there are things outside of our control and it's not an indication of whether we're good or a bad person person. Sometimes it's just the broken world that, that, that, that we find ourselves in.

And, and so I, I think there's power in normalizing grief and normalizing hardship and tragedy and sorrow and trying to look at, look at it from the lens of, it's not an indication of who I am as a person, but sometimes we just live in a broken world and, and, and, and tragedy happens. And so it's not a personal indictment on anybody, but it's just more or less an indictment of the fact that we live in a broken, fallen world.

Okay, that's an interesting perspective.

And just getting back to what you're saying and let's say for example, if I was a person of faith and really because of this loss, I'm beginning to question my faith. And I go to you, I say, hey, look, I need some help with this.

And I'm really questioning my faith and I'm really questioning why God let this happen to me and why is God making me, making me suffer as I'm going through this hard time? I'm just wondering how would you respond to an individual if they were to kind of bring that to you? And that's pretty heavy. It really is. It is.

No, it is there.

So for me, so this is just my, my opinion, but when I read the Bible, I see plenty of examples of, of suffering and a lot of biblical passages that don't, they don't speak to the removal of hardship or suffering. They speak to more or less how to, how to endure it. And so I think for me it's not so much where is, where is God? He's actually there all the time.

So where was God when this happened? He's. He's right beside you and he's right beside you now, and he wants to lead you and guide you and help you through.

Just because something's going on that's negative doesn't mean that God has abandoned anybody. And so for me, it's not so much where was God, or how could you? The question is, how can I suffer?

Well, because suffering is a part of the human experience. So God doesn't promise us a life free from suffering, but what he does say is, I can help you to suffer well. So there are like verses.

There's a verse even when Jesus is hanging on the cross where he says, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? So even at times, the Son of God felt alone. So that's a very normal part of the human experience.

But it also says in the book of John, you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world.

And so for me, when, when I or anyone else goes through suffering, I try to look at things from the perspective of not where are you to God, or how could this happen? But how can I suffer well, and the other thing too, that's also true.

And it's another unfortunate part of humanity is we learn and we grow through hardship. So you and I both like sports. So imagine a team where the practices were easy. No one ever had to work hard, no one had to really study any film.

No one was pushed to the max. Well, by the time it's game time, they're not going to. They haven't learned or grown enough to be ready to handle what's happening in a game.

And so in the moment it might seem like this is meaningless or pointless or I don't understand this. Sometimes later on looking back, we can see how we've learned and grown for something from something.

And so that's obviously not a lot of solace in a moment, but learning how to suffer well, because suffering is going to happen. I believe every person has a choice.

And we can choose to not suffer well, or we can choose to suffer well and learn how to grow and forge some character as a result of that. And so, and one thing, example that I point to is say person A has a really bad experience and let's say they learn how to suffer well.

Well, when person B, C and D have a similar experience now, they can actually lead and guide and help them to suffer well through that specific scenario in a way that they understand because they've been through the same thing. And so there is good that can come from suffering.

And we can learn and grow as a result of suffering in a way that we would not if life was always just easy. But of course, that's not necessarily something we always take in mind in the moment. And so for me, the question is, how can I. How can I suffer?

Well, because that's the one thing God that promises, is that he'll be right beside us as we're. As we are suffering.

Well, thanks. That kind of touches on one of the other questions I was going to ask you.

But the other question was, how can my faith help me find meaning in this loss? I think you kind of touched on that very well, and it's really helpful. One of the things.

And it could be.

I could be saying to you, like, why didn't God take me? Why did God have to take my wife, for example? And. And again, because of that loss, I'm starting to get angry with God. And.

And how do I take that anger away? So I'm not so angry with God because of my loss. Yeah.

Let me read a Bible passage here. It's Lamentations 3, 21. It'll be to 25. Kind of answers this question and goes a bit back into the previous question, but to provide some context.

The Babylonians taking over Israel and Judah, and they're in Jerusalem, and it's because of poor leadership. And so all the people are suffering. So remember, this is ancient times.

So when an ancient civilization would take over another one, everything's burned, people are enslaved. Your entire livelihood is gone.

And what the Babylonians kind of specialize in is they would take a group of people and disperse them throughout their kingdom to avoid them congregating at home and stirring up for rebellion. They separated them everywhere. So life as the Israelites knew it at this particular time was over.

And in The Lamentations, chapter three, starting in verse 21, it says the following. But this I call to mind, and therefore I have hope. The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end.

They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness. The Lord is my portion, says my soul. Therefore I will hope in him.

The Lord is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him. And so, in essence, how can you know, how can my faith help me, you know, with loss and to navigate suffering?

And is it okay to be angry at God and all that sort of stuff? That's a. This whole section is all about the despair of what's actually transpiring.

It's it's complete loss, complete hopelessness, complete chaos, complete fear. And like Lamentations, it's a lament. It's sadness.

And so whether it's Lamentations or there's Psalms or their other books in the Bible where there are plenty of examples of people being fully open and fully honest with God with, you know, with how they feel now, what He. What's being said in this passage is that every single day God promises to be with us in our grief and our suffering. We can find hope in that.

But the reason why that that passage is so impactful in many ways is because the recognition of the depth of despair that people are going through. So whether it's despair, sadness, grief, anger, there is no emotion too big for God. God is omnipotent, meaning he's all powerful.

He's omnipresent, meaning he's everywhere, and he's omniscient, meaning he knows everything. So he already knows our inner lives, our inner thoughts. He knows our heart. So it's not as if we could say to him, I'm really angry.

And he's like, huh, I had no idea. Also, it's not as if we would say, God, I'm really angry with you right now. And he would cry about it and be really sad because we hurt his feelings.

If he did create the universe, if he is who he says he is, he's able to handle our true, honest feelings. The best relationship that we have with other human beings are the ones where we are authentic and can be ourselves.

I would argue the same is true when it comes to a spiritual relationship where when we are honest and open with how we really think and feel, that's. That's a key to having a healthy spiritual relationship with God. And so I would say, I think it's completely okay to be angry.

I think it's completely okay to be sad. I think it's okay if people want to go and swear at God because he's actually big enough to handle our honest thoughts and feelings.

So if we're swearing on the inside, but not on the outside, but he knows what's happening on the inside, is there really any difference? There isn't. He knows what's going on in our inner world.

And so one step towards finding hope, I would say, through faith, is to recognize God already knows. So I can be honest with him. He can handle my feelings. He's a big boy. He can take it. And he promises to be there with me through it all.

And in order to fully experience the hope that he can provide. I need to be honest with him about where I'm at and what I'm thinking and what I'm feeling.

And he's not scared of our thoughts and feelings, scared of our opinions. I would argue he actually wants us to be honest with him about those things.

Because just like human connection is deepest through vulnerability and honesty and authenticity, the same is true with God. The only difference is other people can't read our minds, but God actually knows what's going on inside of us.

So I would actually encourage people to be.

That are angry, that are sad, that are frustrated, that don't know what to do, full of grief and sorrow, to actually express those thoughts and feelings openly and honestly with God. And I think that's a positive step towards healing and a positive step towards authenticity. And the Bible is full of.

Of people who did just those things.

So is it fair to say, just based on what I'm hearing from you, that when, let's say I'm angry at God, that's an invitation for God to comfort me through my pain?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And you know, the funny thing about it is that there's a lot of people that don't have a spiritual connection, but when they have that loss, they're looking for answers. And sometimes that's where they go. They go to see a priest, a rabbi, whoever it is, and just please help me explain what just happened in my life.

How do I get through this and take it one step at a time?

Yeah, absolutely.

Depression. During the depression stage, you start facing your present reality and the inevitability of the loss you've experienced.

Understandably, this realization may lead you to feel intense sadness and despair.

Yep.

No one wants to feel that way.

No, no, it's. But again, it's. It's one of the stages and, you know, it's like an evolution of. Of sorrow or grieving and stuff.

It.

It has all these different faces to it and yeah, you try and I think, latch onto them to help you get through it or. Because it doesn't usually ever make sense. Never, is it? Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. That makes.

Unless they're, you know, sick and been on a deathbed for a long time and stuff like that. But, yeah, all you would get. Yeah, the. The depression, the anger, the. All of it. Yeah, it's all there.

And. And again, with no, no consideration of time as to when you're going to deal with one stage or the other. And, and keep in mind, the.

The stages, again, were.

Just give someone a picture of what it would look like not how you would manage the actual emotions or move forward in dealing with those emotions, but.

It does help a bit for sure. But during that time, all of those are going to blend together and you'll feel different, different ones or numerous ones on a daily.

So yeah, it would be hard to differentiate listeners.

This concludes the first part of our episode on learning and living with grief. Stay tuned for the second part as TC and Mad Dog continue to share their own experiences and thoughts when experiencing grief.

We also want to thank Brock Adams for sharing his spiritual insight to help us live better with grief. Thanks, Brock. Remember to take advantage of the moment before the moment takes advantage of you.

To learn more about E-Walkabout, please visit us at E-Walkabout.ca.