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In the Climb with Markiesha E. Wilson
Episode 21 • 30th October 2023 • Listening for Clues • On the Journey with Jon & Lauren
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In the Climb with Markiesha E. Wilson

We are honored to have Markiesha E. Wilson, a human capital consultant, leadership coach, and author of "In the Climb." Markiesha talks about how her vocation came to be, the power of forgiveness and her amazing book.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Markiesha's book "In the Climb" on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Climb-Audacious-Actions-Overcome-Corporate/dp/1737622300

Markiesha's website: https://wilson-chapman.com/

Markiesha's email address: pursuejoy@wilson-chapman.com

Markiesha's Instagram address:https://www.instagram.com/wilsonchapmancoaches/?hl=en

The TEDX talk Forgiveness in the Workplace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EUHyo9N1iA

Listening for Clues is pleased to present our new series, "Good News!" featuring weekly conversations with people who are making a difference, large or small. We want everyone to know what they are doing, why they are doing it, and how. So, our listeners and viewers can experience the good news and go out and make a difference themselves.

Listening for Clues invites you into conversations that discover clues, rather than solutions to life’s problems. Join the journey with Jon Shematek and Lauren Welch, Episcopal deacons, as we explore whatever lies ahead. Check our website Listening for Clues.

© 2023 Listening for Clues

Transcripts

Speaker:

Music

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Jon: Welcome to Good News being

brought to you by Listening for Clues.

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Lauren: We are Lauren Welch and

Jon Shematek, deacons in the

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Episcopal Diocese of Maryland.

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Jon: We sure are, and today we have a

very special guest with us, Markiesha E.

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Wilson.

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Markiesha is a human capital consultant,

a leadership coach, An author and

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an expert in change management.

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In her bio that she provided for a TEDx

talk that she's given about forgiveness

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as a powerful tool in the workplace,

this is how she describes herself.

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Being an authentic leader is difficult and

especially difficult if you are a woman.

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Even more challenging if

you are a woman of color.

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She is a human capital professional

with over 15 years of proven experience

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in strategizing and partnering

with leadership teams to design

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and empower dynamic workforces.

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Markiesha is a leadership coach with

a unique ability to ignite growth.

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She is an expert level facilitator and

designer of highly rated interactive

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leadership and communications

courses for adult learners in the

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defense and financial industries.

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Welcome, Markiesha.

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We are thrilled to have you today.

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Markiesha: I am thrilled

to be here, Jon and Lauren.

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Thank you so much for this opportunity

to share with your listening audience.

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And for this invitation

just to chat with y'all.

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I'm super excited about it.

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Lauren: Markiesha, we are too.

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It's a joy to have you with us.

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So you are a human capital

consultant that helps leadership

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teams to empower their workforces.

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What inspired you to do

this in the first place?

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Markiesha: Oh, what a great question.

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You know There are some things

that find you, right, that you're

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doing and then you realize, oh

shoot, there's a title for this.

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For me, I was doing training and

development work and spent a lot of time

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working with different So And during

those training sessions, so many of them

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would say, well, you know, it's a bigger

problem than we're being trained for.

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Training isn't always the answer.

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And that was really clear to me as a

training and development professional.

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The training is often given as

the answer for many organizational

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problems and for leadership challenges.

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So I was able to see that and

found an opportunity to get into

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an organization where I could.

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Speak to leaders at their level about

creating strategies that would go

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further than a four hour training.

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That makes sense.

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Jon: Mm hmm.

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Yeah, it sure does.

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Now what has impressed me is I've

learned something about you and

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listened to your TEDx talk which I

highly recommend to folks to do that.

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It's fairly brief.

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I mean, it was only like 12

minutes or something, right?

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Markiesha: That's the requirement.

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TEDx Talks can actually

only be 13 to 17 minutes.

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Did you know that?

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Jon: No, I did not know that.

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It's a rule.

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But it was fascinating to me that the

topic that chose you, or that you chose,

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I don't know quite how that worked,

was forgiveness in the workplace.

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Because I know, you know, when

you're reading your resume, it's

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really all about work and management

and executives and and so on.

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And yet...

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Your talk was about forgiveness.

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Markiesha: Yes.

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So, Jon, being that you, you both

are in the church, you understand

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what it means to be called and

answered to a higher power.

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And I'm a Christian as well.

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That topic literally chose me.

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The conference was set up already, the

TEDx conference, to focus on forgiveness.

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I was a late add when I met

the coordinator of the author's

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tour and they said to me,

well, the topic is forgiveness.

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We'd love you to speak.

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What can you share about that?

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And I just.

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Like, wait a minute.

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This is honestly, Jon and Lauren,

I was thinking this is actually the

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last thing I want to talk about.

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Be in full transparency.

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And then as I, I worked on what

my offer would be to the community

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Yeah, it made so much sense.

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It came to me like, boom, forgiveness

is missing in the workplace.

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And that was my original title is that

forgiveness is missing in the workplace.

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And that's how the topic came to be.

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And it's something that

I firmly believe in.

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There are so many situations that

occur at work that we don't get over.

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And we can't get over.

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And even in my talk, in the 13 minutes,

you'll see that I don't necessarily

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say you're going to have to get over.

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It's really about releasing

what has happened so that you

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can get to the next thing.

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You spend much more time at

work than you do anything else.

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I think the statistic that I quote in

there is that the only thing you spend

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more time doing is sleeping in life.

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Aside from being at work, right?

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And so a lot of things can occur

in all of those relationships.

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And we, again, we train around them.

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We consult around them.

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We strategize around them.

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We write, write you up in HR about

it, but we don't talk about how you

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can release it and move forward.

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Yeah.

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Jon: And I think that was one of

the messages that really struck

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me in your in your 13 minute

talk was about the forgiveness.

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You know, you say the old adage for

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forgive and forget.

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And you say, no, you

don't, you don't forget.

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You don't have to forget.

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It's a memory that you have.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Lauren: So, can you say some

more about the releasing and

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letting go rather than forgetting?

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Markiesha: Yes.

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And you know, since I've done this talk,

Lauren, I have been asked this question.

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Now I'm an expert on it.

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I'm like, wait a minute.

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I'm still working.

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Listen, we're all works in

progress in many ways, right?

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So the releasing to me has become, for

lack of a better phrase, a brainwashing.

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It is a brainwashing and

a heartwashing, right?

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I believe that the heart only

has so much capacity to hold.

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It can hold Joy, hate, hurt, pain,

but it only has so much capacity.

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So if I'm holding onto the pain of someone

offending me in the workplace, making some

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insulting comment, if I'm holding onto the

hurt of not being invited to participate

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in this leadership thing or that thing,

if I'm holding onto offense of any, of

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any kind, any, any sort of negative,

problem that I had that gives me less

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capacity to enjoy the work that I'm doing.

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And so I have to force myself to process,

to think on the positive things, right?

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We know that that is

in Philippians, right?

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Think on these things that are positive.

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There's a very specific reason that exists

because the more time you thinking on

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what's positive, what's What's beautiful.

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What's just, what's right.

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The less time you have to think

on who pissed me off at work

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and how to get back at them.

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And Oh, when I'm boss, I'll do this.

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So for me, it's about intentionally

forcing my thoughts on the positive so

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that I push down and push out the negative

that's really the only way I can speak

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of it now in our coaching training that

I've done at Georgetown University.

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We talk about changing neural pathways

and so on, and that's the science of it

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all, but that's the truth of it for me on

the day to day basis is a brainwashing.

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Markiesha, you cannot think about

how these people got on your nerves.

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You have to think about the joy that you

feel when you mentor a junior consultant.

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And that's what works for me.

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Jon: Yeah, Lauren and I have so often

said, the joy is what's missing,

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and this is one of these amazing

themes it sounds like, in your life.

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I wanted to ask you, Markiesha

in the TEDx talk and also in your

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book, you were really vulnerable.

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You shared some very painful

information about your past.

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relationship with your

parents, your father's death.

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And I'm just wondering have you

incorporated that also in your

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leadership training and your consulting?

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Do you show that kind of vulnerability?

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When you thought of, think about,

I am an audacious black woman

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and I'm going to model this.

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And on the, on the one hand,

and on the other hand, here

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you are with your heart open.

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Markiesha: Yeah.

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Wow.

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There's like 10, 000 ways

I can answer this question.

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So I'll go the easiest way.

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The easiest way is have I incorporated it

in my trainings and my work with women?

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The answer is yes.

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In a very strategic way in that I believe

that all of the, the pain and things that

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I have gone through has enabled me to

put work pain In its proper perspective.

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So that's one of the things that I think

occurs in the lives of men and women is

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we endure a lot at home, put on a nice

suit, cover it up and come to work.

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And I, I bring that forward by

saying, I did that for years, right?

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Showing up nicely dressed and

stuffing down all of this pain

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and regret and sadness, right?

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And so the vulnerability that I show

in the book, I believe, gosh, there's

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so many ways I could go with this.

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But what I believe about that is that

I was at a place where I realized that

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those things that I went through enabled

me to go through and thrive in the work

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environments that I had endured as well.

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I didn't realize that really.

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I'm being honest until I was putting

the book together because I initially

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and intentionally set out to give a

blueprint to women and men and young

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people to follow these eight steps

to get through corporate America.

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But in the writing of it, I realized

that I was going to be using stories

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and as I got to each story, I realized,

yeah, that was the lesson there.

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If I could take the troubled relationship

with my mother, endure that, still love

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her to the best of my ability through

that, then surely, I could figure

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out how to come to work and take all

kinds of things from upper management,

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process it, smile, and push through it.

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It was sort of one fed the other.

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So when I, when I speak in a vulnerable

sense or speak from my vulnerability,

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those challenges that I've had,

I know that I'm speaking from a

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place of experience and strength

and it can make Those workplace

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challenges that feel insurmountable.

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It puts them in their proper perspective.

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Something else to just to say, and

your listeners don't know this.

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You probably don't know this, that

I share when I give my book signings

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and things is that my book went

st,:

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And I do talk about this in the TED talk.

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And that is the same day.

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That my father took his own life and,

and we're coming up on that anniversary.

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So I'm already like getting to that

part where, you know, when you come

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up on the anniversary of things and

I tried, I just was like, God in his

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divine timing, there's, I was trying

to focus on the book, but there was

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no way for me to separate them now.

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Right?

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You're asking me, do you bring it in?

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Well, I don't, I can't separate them now

because they occurred on the same day.

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And What I can say to

people is life is like that.

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Life is like that you can

be on an extreme high.

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And plummet in moments to an extreme low.

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And it's getting through those lows

because you have the encouragement of

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the high that gives you hope, right?

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That you can get through them to

the next side, to the other side.

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So I, I can't get away from it now, Jon.

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I know it's like.

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They're, they're linked

forever, these stories.

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Lauren: Markiesha, you are integrating

your whole life, so together, I

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mean, so that the pain teaches you

a lesson and you can get through to

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the joy by working with it, because

we do have to work with the pain.

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We can't just ignore it.

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Markiesha: In the beginning,

you were stuffing down.

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Lauren: What has surprised you with

all that you're doing and working

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with the people that you work with?

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Markiesha: Oh, I love

this question, Lauren.

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What has surprised me is the impact on

people I just did not expect, right?

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So When I wrote the book, I

pictured young Markieshas, right?

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Like coming into corporate America,

you're young, you're black.

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People have told you you're brilliant.

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You've been the only this, that,

only, only, only a lot in these

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rooms and you need some support.

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So I pictured little Markieshas.

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I also pictured little Laurens,

like, okay, starting my career.

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How do I make it through male

dominated corporate America?

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So I pictured women of all shades.

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I pictured young Harithas.

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I pictured women of all shades, right?

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I did not picture Jon s

being impacted by my book.

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But there are Johns and Donnies and

Ricks who have reached out to me.

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saying this book has impacted them.

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And that has been the biggest

surprise because I, I really thought

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women will pick it up, right?

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My friends will read it.

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And I thought people would

just, you know, read it.

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to see if they were in

the acknowledgements, but

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that was the hardest thing

for people for me to write.

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People keep asking, what

was the hardest chapter?

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The acknowledgements, because I kept

changing it and adding a person.

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But I really just didn't expect that.

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And a friend of mine who shared this

book with her brother and he said

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to her, wow, that really helped me.

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I've been depressed.

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And that completely shocked me.

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I just, I just didn't expect it to have

that impact on different types of people.

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Jon: And let me affirm that, as

someone who's read your book a

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little skeptically at first, because

I thought, you know, what could

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this possibly have to say to me?

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And yet, the day that I read it,

it helped me with something that

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had happened the day before.

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So, you know, an old white guy can benefit

from this and somebody who is, you know,

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retired and not in the corporate world.

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I was at one time, but now I'm in kind

of in the church world primarily and

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in podcasting world it's applicable.

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It applies to Everyone's life situation.

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So I just got to thank

you for for doing this.

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It's

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and the way that you

the way that you did it.

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So you're an author now in this

book I imagine triggers people's

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interest in you and so on.

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What is it that you do on a day to

day basis that's making a difference?

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Is this a consulting business?

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Do you do you do motivational

speaking types of things?

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I'm very much like my daughter in law.

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I've got Excel spreadsheets

for everything.

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So I'm very task and list oriented.

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So

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we need that kind of person

in the world for sure.

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But could you tell us a little bit about

your daily work and how that is actually

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making a difference in people's lives?

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Markiesha: Sure.

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My daily work I spend, I dare not

draw the percentages out, but I

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spend probably most of my time still

doing human capital consulting.

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I work in a couple of

government organizations and.

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Some intelligence communities

around people problems.

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So I make a difference there

working on leadership development

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programs and organizational

development challenges that.

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So that's what most of my

actual work looks like.

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And then, with regard to the book, I've

been invited to talk about my book at

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a number of different organizations

and even family groups and book clubs.

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So most of my time that was

still spent doing the consulting.

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And I also take on a few, very

few executive coaching clients.

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I'm very, very, very picky about the

executive coaching clients I take on,

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because I like to spend real time.

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Getting into their true challenges.

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So I would say a third, a third and a

third, I guess, is how I spend my time

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and making a difference in the world.

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If I can just say, you didn't ask

me this question, but I just want to

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tell people that I finally figured

out what I want to be when I grow up.

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I figured it out like three years ago

when I left corporate America on October

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9th, 2020 at the height of the pandemic.

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Right.

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On my great granny's birthday.

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But I want to be a philanthropist.

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So in order to give money,

I need to make money.

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So my only purpose now in making more

money is to give more money away.

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This year I was able to give away three

scholarships to students, all different

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ages, And they all look different.

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So I just want to continue to work

so that I can continue to give.

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That's what I want my

future life to look like.

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So being on a podcast like this is what

I want my life to look like so that I

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can reach more people and do more good.

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Jon: Yeah, that's amazing.

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And I think it's really ties into one

of your one of your eight messages

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in your book about generosity.

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It's the whole thing.

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Markiesha: It is my number

one core value is generosity.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Beautiful.

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It's all I want to do.

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Beautiful.

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You gotta make money to give money.

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I, I, I just learned that recently.

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Lauren: So, Markiesha, with, with all

your work and all that you do, it sounds

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like everything that you do enjoy it.

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What else do you do for fun, if you?

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Markiesha: So glad you

asked me that question.

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Outside of iIn the Climb for fun, I

am addicted to travel and dessert.

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I've really had to work on the

dessert thing because now that I'm a

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woman of a certain age, things show

up in ways you don't want them to.

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Right?

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That is what my travel outfits.

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But, I love to travel.

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I'm obsessed with the Caribbean.

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I spend as much time getting there

and spending time on beaches.

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I gotta keep my tan going, you know.

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So that is what I do for fun.

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When I can't travel, I go to concerts.

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I'm too thrilled.

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One of my great friends just

got us tickets yesterday to go

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see Madonna in DC in December.

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I go to concerts and I travel.

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I was at the hip hop 50th concert in

the Bronx but yeah, that's what I do for

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fun, I haven't done it in a bit, but I

have done some acting through my church.

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Yes, I did a lot of that, but we

put it on pause because of COVID.

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So, but I'd love to get back into acting.

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Jon: You have done that

in the past, I know.

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Even in your college days, right?

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Markiesha: Yes, I did some

improvisational theater.

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It helped.

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I have

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Jon: moments like these.

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I wish I had that background, too.

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So, you know, the other thing I'm kind

of curious about, Markiesha, is you're

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totally unashamed about your faith.

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You talk about it in your

book, you have quotations from

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scriptures, you paraphrase.

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You have an NIV according to Markiesha,

something like that at the end of

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it I know your faith has sustained

you through so many difficult times.

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How else has your life experience

or your faith as a Christian woman,

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kind of informed your spiritual life?

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Yeah,

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Markiesha: it, it is.

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It is my, my Christian walk

is my whole hope for tomorrow.

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It's what gets me through.

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It's my source of strength.

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It is my blueprint for living.

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It is my source of joy.

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It is everything to me, right?

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If I can just tell you one little thing

about the TED Talk, when there's a rule,

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you can't bring up God in a TED Talk.

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Wow.

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And they said that is one of the

many reasons why TED Talks don't

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get published because you can do

one and they don't publish them all.

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I was, I felt blessed that they published

mine, but you cannot mention God.

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And at first I was like,

I don't want to do it.

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How am I going to not say God?

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And I heard God say, listen,

you gotta get the word out.

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This is, these are ways to get the

word out without getting the word out.

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Right?

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People will watch mine

and then they'll find me.

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And then they'll find what would sustain

me through my childhood, through trauma,

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through the death of two parents.

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You'll find that it was

God that enabled me to.

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become successful when I shouldn't have

been, when I graduated college early.

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You'll find it was God that enabled

me to be the only Black woman

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in these spaces and be respected

and make it through disrespect.

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You'll find that it was God in

everything that I have done.

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So I took the opportunity to do the

TED Talk to speak without saying

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God, but He's everything to me.

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I, you know, when he says I

am, he was talking Markiesha.

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I am whatever Markiesha needs.

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That was just for me, y'all.

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Lauren: You don't have to say

God to share the divine presence

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because you are the divine presence.

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Markiesha: Thank you.

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Yeah.

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I feel the same about you guys.

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It's true.

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Jon: Thanks so much I do want to just kind

of and I have it right here, Markiesha.

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This is your book.

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Oh, that looks familiar!

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It looks familiar.

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It's called, it's got a very long

subtitle, like most books have these days.

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It's called, In the Climb, Eight

Audacious Actions to Overcome Life and

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Climb the Corporate Ladder with Joy.

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There's that joy message again.

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And, is this a bird of paradise on there?

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Markiesha: It sure is.

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Yes, there's a story behind

the cover of the book.

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Yeah,

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Jon: please, I love the cover.

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Markiesha: Oh, yes.

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So I had, you know, in the

book that I lived in St.

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Thomas.

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So I asked one of my friend's

daughters who was studying art at

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Parsons to paint the cover of my book.

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She interviewed me, asked me

about the book, and at that time

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I had barely written anything.

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I didn't know anything that I

was going to put in the book.

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And then she started to ask me to send

a couple of pictures, and so I did.

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And then she started to ask me what

the favorite flower of my mother was

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and the favorite flower of my niece.

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And she knew the favorite flower

of a gentleman named Fletcher,

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for whom I thank in the book.

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And that was the bird of paradise.

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And so the flowers on the book and

throughout the book are intentional,

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and they are symbolic of people.

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The white calla lily, my

mother's favorite flower.

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The purple flower, which I can

never remember the name of, is my

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niece's flat favorite and the pink

calla lily is my favorite flower.

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So that's the story behind

the cover of the book.

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Jon: It's beautiful and it's actually

quite a, a beautiful painting.

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Markiesha: Yes, it's hanging

in my living room right now.

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Jon: There's your pink.

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Yeah, fantastic.

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I love it.

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Good.

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So let's see Markiesha I feel

so connected to you today.

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And this, I also feel like this is

one of those times where, I, I look

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at Lauren and afterwards and say,

we've been on holy ground here.

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I should have taken my shoes off.

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Amazing.

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I thoroughly enjoyed this.

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I'm just wondering though, I'm sure

there are people that are going to want

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to reach out to you, they're going to

read the book, they're going to want

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to contact you or learn more about you.

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How can they do that?

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Markiesha: Awesome.

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Well, sure, the book, In the Climb, is

on Amazon, and the audiobook version

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just came out last month on Audible.

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The cover is different on that one.

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Intentionally, by the way, I took

off my face so Johns would look at it

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and say, Hey, I might want this book.

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Jon: Beautiful,

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Markiesha: beautiful.

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So that's on Amazon.

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On Instagram, you can go on there.

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I mean, look, I'm not a big Instagram

person, but it's Wilson Chapman Coaches.

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C O A C H E S at the Ann

Wilson Chapman Coaches.

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My website is wilson chapman,

C H A P M A N dot com.

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And that's really the best way to get me.

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But if you want to shoot me

an email, it's Pursue Joy.

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at wilson chapman.

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com

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Jon: Oh, amazing.

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:

Great.

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And we'll put all those

links in our show notes.

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So our viewers and listeners can find

them easily and, and get to you easily.

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So, Markiesha, thanks.

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I've just, I've just really

enjoyed our conversation today.

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This has been great.

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Markiesha: Me too.

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It's been such a thrill to meet you

both and share this time with you.

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I hope your listeners are.

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Continue to be blessed by your podcast

and thank you for what you're doing.

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:

Bad news is on 24 seven on about 40

percent of the channels that we watch

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and good news is almost never ever on.

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So I love that you all are doing

this for the kingdom and I appreciate

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the opportunity to be a part of it.

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Lauren: Markiesha, before

we leave, you have shared so

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much wisdom with us already.

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Is there anything else

you would like to share?

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Markiesha: Sure.

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It is that in all that you do, remember

that someone needs exactly what you have.

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And all that you become, remember.

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to still make time to give that thing

that only you have to other people.

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That's all I got.

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:

That was, thank you.

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Jon: Yes.

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Thanks so much.

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Markiesha: Thank you.

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What a joy this has been.

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I hope I get to come on again.

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Jon: Listen, we're going to do

another series next year, so

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we would love to have you back.

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Lauren: Jon and I also want to

thank all those who are watching

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:

and listening with us today.

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:

We cannot do this without your

participation, so please take a

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:

moment to comment, like, and share

on all your social media sites.

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:

And again, thank you for the

gift of your time with us today.

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Until next time, peace and blessings.

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Jon: Good news is being brought

to you by Listening for Clues.

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You can find us on our

website, listeningforclues.

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:

com, our YouTube channel, our

Vimeo channel, and just about every

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:

podcast platform that there is.

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:

Hope to see you soon.

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