Love and sex addiction aren’t issues people talk about regularly. But this week’s guest Mason Spector, co-founder of the clothing brand Madhappy, doesn’t shy away from sharing his struggles with Dr. Emily in this Taboo Tuesday episode. From infidelity and seeking self-worth through the attention of others to rehab and starting a clothing brand rooted in mental health positivity, Mason shares it all. Tune in now to hear why he says all men need to get honest with themselves and their loved ones about their own struggles with mental health. 

Staying emotionally fit takes work and repetition. That's why the Emotionally Fit podcast with psychologist Dr. Emily Anhalt delivers short, actionable Emotional Push-Ups every Tuesday and Thursday to help you build a better practice of mental health, and surprising, funny, and shocking conversations on Taboo Tuesdays - because the things we’re most hesitant to talk about are also the most normal. Join us to kickstart your emotional fitness. Let's flex those feels and do some reps together!

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The Emotionally Fit podcast is produced by Coa, your gym for mental health. Katie Sunku Wood is the show’s producer from StudioPod Media with additional editing and sound design by nodalab, and featuring music by Milano. Special thanks to the entire Coa crew!

JUMP STRAIGHT INTO:

(02:04) - Battling mental health and creating Madhappy - “It's inevitable that we’ll have really sad days and go through hard times, and I think the more that we can pay attention to that and really honor those times so we can just learn so much more about ourselves, about each other, about the world, and therefore really be able to grow and evolve.”

(04:49) - The stigma around men's mental health - “Having that ability to be vulnerable is actually such a sign of courage. And I think for men especially, they will do whatever it takes to just put on that facade of being very strong and kind of being rock solid on the outside and never showing that weakness.”

(08:31) - Mason’s love and sex addiction - “I had really just built a world where I was just getting all of my self-worth from other people, and always having to be in relationships and always having to be talking to people on the side to really just make me feel like I had this web of people who needed me and wanted me so that I would really never feel alone.”

(15:58) - Mason’s work to get to the root of the problem - “Really seeing what comes up and really getting to know myself and my story, and being able to contextualize as to how these events that I might not think about on a daily basis or consciously even remember are really drastically affecting my present-day life and my behaviors, has been a game changer”

(20:01) - Advice for men who want to confront their mental health struggles - “Even if you can't see it, it's there, and for better or for worse, it will eventually rear its ugly head in some way someday. So I think it's better to just kind of be realistic with yourself and be practical and just know that it's a normal part of the human experience.”

I was just getting all of my self-worth from other people and always having to be in relationships, and always having to be talking to people on the side to really just make me feel like I had this web of people who needed me and wanted me so that I would really never feel alone. And it wasn't until I hit my rock bottom that I even heard of sex and love addiction for the first time.

Welcome to Taboo Tuesday on the Emotionally Fit podcast! I'm Dr. Emily Anhalt and I've always loved talking about taboo subjects, sex, money, drugs, death, because being a therapist has taught me that the feelings we're most hesitant to talk about are also the most normal. Join me as we flex our feels by diving into things you might not say out loud, but you're definitely not the only one thinking. Quick disclaimer that nothing in this podcast should be taken as professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment because while I am a therapist, I'm not your therapist and I'm not my guest's therapist. This is intended only to spark interesting conversation. Thanks for tuning in!

Hey there, Fit fans! I'm here today for a Taboo Tuesday episode with Mason Spector, co-founder of mental health clothing brand Madhappy. Mason is 28 years old and lives in Los Angeles, California. He co-founded Madhappy back in 2017 with his childhood friends. And as someone who has struggled with mental health issues for a lot of his life, he's used his own experiences to build this next generation lifestyle brand that helps to create a conversation around mental health. Madhappy is positioned at the intersection of culture and impact and has grown into this global brand looking to really spread its mission to every corner of the globe. Today, we will be talking about the stigma of men's mental health, and Mason will be sharing a little about his own struggles with love and sex addiction. Mason, thanks so much for being here today.

Yeah, thank you for having me.

Before we dive into the meat of things, I'm curious if you can tell us a little about yourself and your journey to getting where you are today.

For sure. Well, I started Madhappy with a few of my partners who are actually some of my best friends. We actually just celebrated our five year anniversary on April, which is pretty crazy.

Congrats.

Thank you. And Madhappy is this brand that we built around positivity and creating conversation around mental health. And for me, our mission is really personal. I'm someone who's really struggled with a lot of mental health issues my entire life. Moved around a lot as a kid, had a pretty turbulent family of origin, and I think that led to a lot of my issues. And then I was never considered myself to be smart. I always really struggled in school. And after dropping out of college, I tried to start one clothing company with one of my current partners, Noah. And after that, kind of flamed out. There was a little bit of success that we experienced and it was kind of like just enough spark to get us to keep going.

And how Madhappy came to be was I was in somewhat of a period of depression back in late 2016. I had dropped out of college. I didn't really have any direction, was struggling with just what I wanted to do in life. And I thought of this word, Madhappy, and it stopped me dead in my tracks, and felt really powerful, and to me really encapsulated the essence of life, and really gave me permission to be sad and be in the moment of suffering that I was in. And I think that the lesson that I learned from that is that it's such an inevitable part of life and something that we'll all experience. It's inevitable that we'll have really sad days and go through hard times.

And I think the more that we can pay attention to that and really honor those times, we can just learn so much more about ourselves, about each other, about the world, and therefore really be able to grow and evolve and become better people, and truer versions of ourself. So, that was just the inspiration for the brand. And then, since then we've really grown a lot. I think people have really responded to the mission and the type of products, and experiences, and content that we create. So, we feel like we're just getting started, but it's been a wild ride so far.

What does the term Madhappy mean to you?

Yeah. To me, it means the ups and downs of life, almost if life is like this two-sided coin and it's not like a competition or one side is better than the other, or we're striving to only be happy. It's a really realistic and comprehensive look at the full spectrum of life and the full spectrum of emotion. And I think just allowing ourselves to have that 360 degree experience, and most importantly, just really being honest with ourselves about whatever's going on and how we're feeling, then we're living a Madhappy life. So, I think it's really just being true to yourself and having that integrity and honoring whatever it is that you're going through.

Well, I know that one of the things you speak out about a lot, which is the taboo topic of the day, is men's mental health. And of course, I have my ideas about this, but why do you think there is still so much stigma around mental health, particularly for men, and what did your journey with that look like?

Yeah. I mean I consider myself kind of lucky in that regard. I was primarily raised by my mom and my grandmother and a lot of women. And I feel like I'm naturally somewhat empathetic and sensitive in my character. So, I think I never really inhibited a lot of those traditional more manly qualities. And I think I became much more emotional and in tune with my feelings and these sorts of things. But at the same time, I grew up with four brothers and sisters and was very active as a kid. So, then I also love playing sports and loved playing video games and all of these other things that you might consider "normal" for guys. So, then in my young adult in early twenties, I realized what was so special about my experience was that I was really able to do both.

And looking back with a lot of kids and when we're growing up, it seems like we're trying so hard to fit in that we really have to label ourselves and identify ourselves as one thing, all the classic archetypes, a jock, a nerd, a cheerleader, all these different things. And I feel like that's really limiting and that's really not accurate as to how we can be. So, when I think of the modern man and what I love to really speak about, and hopefully inspire in so many kids is that we can be all of those things and there are no rules or regulations, or right or wrong way of what box we have to fit in. And I think there's something really cool about being able to go play sports, and then have a really tough conversation, and maybe get really sad and just experience that full range of life, like I was talking about with the meaning of Madhappy.

Yeah. I mean, when I think about why mental health stigma exists in a different way for men, and I think about how there's this kind of double whammy, where there is the stigma of having feelings period that I think a lot of men feel. And then there's the stigma of struggling period that I think a lot of men feel. So, to be in a position where you're struggling with your emotional life, there's just not historically been a lot of room for men to be public and to reach for support around struggling with their emotional life. What's that look like for you and how did you move through that or overcome that throughout your life?

Yeah, that's a great point. I think the biggest thing is the association of struggling with weakness. And anything that makes you seem weak in any way, you want to try and avoid and never speak about and never share. And that is something that I didn't understand until later in life of struggling actually being, not only a realistic part of life, but inevitable. Having that ability to be vulnerable is actually such a sign of courage. And I think for men especially, they will do whatever it takes to just put on that facade of being very strong and being rock solid on the outside and never showing that weakness. And I think now it's really reflected tenfold and just all of the stats of, I think it's three fourths of suicides in the country are men.

Obviously, it's so much harder for them to seek treatment. And even when they do seek treatment, it's very hard to get them to open up about things. So, we really see it reflected in a lot of data when it comes to mental health across the country too. So, that's why I feel like it's such an important thing to talk about. And it's come a little bit in these last few years, but obviously really still a massive stigma around it.

And I mean the stigma exists for everyone, but I do think there's something particular to people who identify as men in our culture, that there's not quite as much permission to lean into that. I know in terms of your mental health journey, something you're really outspoken about, which I think is really important for people who might feel alone in it, is a struggle with sex and love addiction. Would you be willing to share a little bit about what that has looked like for you and how you stepped toward a healthier version of yourself around that?

Yeah, totally. That's something that I didn't really recognize in myself until three or four years ago. I think it's hard for a lot of people to really understand what love addiction even means, I mean like how it's even real. I think we all have an innate need to want to be liked and loved, and I think on surface that can seem a very real thing. And I think the way that it kind of manifested for me is I never really felt myself at school. And I think when you're a kid, you're always looking for like, what's my thing? What's that label that I'm going to put on my chest that people are going to know me by when they talk about me, that I'm good at, that my parents can talk about to their friends, and really be proud of? And I never really had that thing as a kid.

I had a brother who was much smarter than me and went through puberty before me, and was kind of bigger, and faster, and stronger, and all of these things. So, I kind of felt like I was in his shadow. And one of the things that really first started to give me attention and really make me feel value was from women, and was from girls flirting with me or telling me that they thought I was cute, or all these different things. I mean, I think it happened to me at that perfect sweet spot of getting a cell phone, and the internet, and some social media, and all these things where that attention and that communication became so much more accessible. And I didn't realize it at the time, obviously, but since I was an early teen, that was how I was getting all of my self worth, and self value, and really how I was masking all of my self-esteem issues and all of my insecurities.

So, obviously, with that really going unaddressed, I move into my late teenage and early 20 years, and that starts to escalate. Drugs and alcohol come into the mix. As you get older, you start to experiment more sexually and romantically, and things kind of escalate in that sense. And before I knew it, I had really just built a world where I was just getting all of my self worth from other people, and always having to be in relationships, and always having to be talking to people on the side to really just make me feel like I had this web of people who needed me and wanted me so that I would really never feel alone. And it wasn't until I hit my rock bottom where I had gotten out of a very serious relationship, because of some infidelity and just because my addiction was raging so hard, that I even heard of sex and love addiction for the first time.

So, the fact that I was struggling with it for so long, had pretty much been in therapy almost that whole time and never was really familiar with it. It was one of those moments where I was reading the 12 Steps of SLAA, which is Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous, and it's just like every single one I felt was just written exactly for me in that moment. So, finding that program was really huge and really helpful. And then I went away to treatment and I was able to really start to unpack all of those things as a kid that I experienced that led to me going out and seeking that attention. And I think ultimately what I've realized, which has been really helpful is that, that addiction and all of my struggles, that wasn't the problem. That was just the solution to another problem. And I think it's really understanding that and going deeper to the root of everything that has allowed me to reduce my shame around it, and ultimately be able to really champion it and just have the full perspective of my experience.

Yeah, that feels really important. Along that journey, what role did the therapy play in you coming to this realization and thinking about what to do about it?

I've always had kind of like a hot and cold relationship with therapy, and I first started when I was seven years old and my mom put me in. So, I grew up knowing how to talk in those rooms and operate in those rooms. And I think it always ebbed and flowed of like, I would just show up and get my way through the session and not really feel motivated to be there. And with my emotional toolbox and vernacular, I was able to just keep things going and maybe just not really be my true self and not have a lot of integrity in those rooms.

And then there'd be moments where I was actually struggling and I had to really be honest and really show up and be present in those rooms. But for me, I've just found that if I'm not motivated in my core to actually be there and want to be honest and want to do something, it doesn't matter if I'm going every single day, I'm not going to get anywhere. So, for me, it's really more about just how I'm feeling and my motivation than what therapist or how often or what modality or anything like that.

Yeah, I definitely agree. If a person doesn't want to be in that room, then it's not going to go anywhere, because ultimately the therapist isn't the answer, the therapist is supporting the person in finding those answers within themselves. So, that makes sense to me. Another thing you said that makes a lot of sense to me that I think is really important, is the idea that the things that we do in an addictive way or in a compulsive way are not usually in and of themselves the true problem. They're a manifestation of the problem and they can become a problem. The behavior itself can become problematic, but just eliminating the problem doesn't fix things. You have to understand what was I trying to not feel, what was I trying to turn away from or cover up or fill in myself, that kind of thing.

So, as you did that exploration, and with love and sex addiction it's complicated because it's not like with alcohol addiction where you can just not drink altogether for a while. We can't get through life without love and sex is a really important part of life for most of us. How did you learn to have a healthier relationship with those things, versus an unhealthy or no relationship with those things?

Yeah. That's a good point and definitely what makes it super difficult, obviously, just because it's so omnipresent everywhere in our life and just you're going to see the opposite sex a million times a day just out in the world, so it's really unavoidable. I think for me it was really about building my world as best as I can to just set myself up for the best chance of success. So, really like noticing the things that would maybe send me down a path, some flags in my life. So, I think the biggest things were deleting certain apps off my phone, limiting screen time on my phone, really trying to cut out things like pornography or certain social situations that I knew would trigger me. I definitely really had to look at my friend group, really identify what people in my life were making me feel good and were really kind of allowing me to be my true self.

And I think after I got back these last few years, my circle has definitely gotten smaller and for the better. And then I think just taking life a little bit slower and really stopping for those in between moments, like when you speak about, what am I avoiding that's making me go do that? So, I'm really trying, anytime I get a thought or an urge, to really pause and then ask myself, what am I feeling that is instantly making me want to go over there and do this thing or pick up that drink or whatever it may be for you? And if I can identify that, that's the real issue that I need to work on. And it's a super hard habit and it feels really weird at first and I'm still not great at it, but that's currently what I'm trying to master.

Yeah. I think a lot about the idea that if we want to know why we do anything, we should stop doing it and see how we feel. If you want to know why you smoke too much, if you want to know why you drink too much, if you want to know why you eat too much, stop doing it for a moment and see how you feel, what comes up, what feelings are you trying to numb or avoid or turn away from. So, it sounds like you're in the process of practicing that almost as a meditation, kind of checking in with ourself in those moments.

Totally.

Something else you mentioned too is that it sounds like all the things that you just spoke to are really great ways of confronting, like you said, the symptoms of the problem. What have you done to work on the root of the problem to learn how to accept love in other places and to be your own source of love, instead of needing to find it in places that didn't feel healthy before?

Yeah. I mean the first thing that comes to mind is just going back and really learning about myself. We all have these stories of ourselves as kids that I think I was at least extremely disconnected with. So, I think that inner child work has been really incredible for me. And I was just so surprised at how much that 6, 7, 8, 12 year old version of myself was running the show up here or the kid that was driving the car. And I think really doing a lot of different cool therapies, and psychotherapies, and exercises like that to really talk to myself and relive some of these experiences, and doing things like EMDR and just really seeing what comes up, and really getting to know myself and my story. And being able to contextualize as to how these events that I might not even think about on a daily basis or consciously even remember, are really drastically affecting my present day life and my behaviors, has been a game changer.

And I think just forgiveness in that regard, really being able to just learn a lot more about myself in that way, I think is super powerful and is something that's so fascinating to me about it for everyone. Because we all have these little versions of ourselves and all these suppressed memories that we never think about, but are having a huge impact on our lives every day.

I so agree. We carry our child self along with us. And if that child needs something, it will find a way to be known so we can meet those needs and have self-compassion.

Totally.

I love that approach. These days, what are your self care non-negotiables? What do you need to be doing in an ongoing way, whether it's physical health or mental health? What do you do to make sure you're in the best possible position to be supporting this big community of the Madhappy population?

Totally. I think the three biggest things for me is one, being outside, I think just spending time in nature, whatever that means. So, even if it's a walk around the block, in the office, in sweaty Downtown Los Angeles, that still lets me get my fix in. I think that sometimes people think for spending time outdoors, you have to be in a national park or where there's no cell phone service or whatever. But really just getting outside and just feeling some sun on my face is really helpful. The second one is playing some sort of sport or activity, kind of like breaking a sweat. So, I really love tennis, I love pickle ball. I just started playing basketball again, which has felt really good. So, more of that inner child stuff, playing games, being outside, running around, that youthful nature of just sport and competition.

And then the last one for me is watching movies. I try and watch at least a couple movies every week, just because that's really a pass time for me and my family, and just loving film, and just being able to tune out and also feel inspired creatively and moved emotionally. It was a huge piece for me. So, those are probably my three non-negotiables I'd say.

I love that. Nature, exercise, and movies, that's a good trio.

Yeah. What are yours?

Oh, good question. Let's see. Mine are probably therapy, community, and sleep. If I don't get eight hours of sleep every night, I'm a mess. So, those are probably my three.

And when you say community, is that just checking in with loved ones and your support system and stuff?

I think it's ongoing time with other people. I think I'm a true extrovert and getting to see my loved ones regularly and spend time together. And then also definitely asking for support when I need it. Knowing that there is a group of people who we all have each other's back, I think helps me feel really grounded in the world. And that's family and friends, and my work community, and it looks like many different things.

That's great.

Yeah. So, what advice do you have for, let's say men in particular who want to confront their mental health struggles but are scared to or are feeling the stigma of it? What would you say to them?

Yeah, that's a good question. I think what I would say is that, just thinking logically and rationally, it's a part of your life. It's not like it doesn't apply to you or if you make X amount of money, or if you know date this girl or you have this car that it won't affect you. Something that will affect everyone in the world almost every single day. So, just thinking about it like that, why wouldn't you want to have something in place to be able to support you when those things come up? I would really encourage people to think about it in the same way as physical health. And I know that we really beat that a drum, but I think it really is the best visualization for people to realize of like, if you had a broken leg or a sprained ankle, or any sort of thing like that, you would go get it checked out so you could go about the rest of your life and you could still walk around and do whatever you needed to do.

And our feelings really do weigh on the psyche, and the body, and are conscious in the same way. So, even if you can't see it, it's there. And I think for better or for worse, it will eventually rear its ugly head in some way someday. So, I think it's better to just be realistic with yourself and be practical, and just know that it's a normal part of the human experience. And it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you or you're crazy or X, Y and Z, and all of these things. And I think if you have anyone in your life who isn't willing to listen to that and who makes you feel bad for expressing that, maybe you should reevaluate some of those relationships. I mean, I think really being kind to yourself and loving yourself, and just knowing that it's something that we all share, to me has been really empowering and just made me feel like I have more of a sense of belonging and community.

That's beautifully said. Speaking of community, who supports you? What does community look like in your life?

I feel like I kind of bucket in into a few different places. I think first with work, my two partners, Payman and Noah I think are huge support systems. For me, it's been really interesting navigating those relationships, from being best friends to being business partners, and to really agreeing to go on this journey together and really work really hard and dedicate our lives to it, I think has changed the dynamic of our relationships a lot. But they've just been huge pillars for me when I was in and out of treatment, picking up some of the slack and have just been really great for me, especially with what the mission of our company is, having it be so personal to me. I think I feel really blessed to be able to talk about these things for a living.

Next, I would say my family. Like I said, I have four brothers and sisters, so it's a really big family. I have aunts and uncles, and cousins, and grandparents, and really just family has been such a big part of my life for as long as I can remember. So, I'm very appreciative for that. And I think especially having siblings who are close to me in age has been huge. When I talk about the inner child stuff and all the family of origin, to unlock some of the clues with them makes me feel like I'm not going through it by myself. And those are the only people who really understand what it was like to be a kid under my roof. So, those relationships have been huge. And then just some close friends and romantic relationships have been really huge.

I have a best friend who's been my roommate for the last five years, who's really been my rock in a lot of ways. So, it's interesting. I've noticed as my circle kind of got smaller, I'll find myself going back more to people that I've known the longest. A lot of people who aren't from LA, which I think is interesting, and people who really just accept me for who I am and have a similar perspective on life as me.

Yeah, it's really lovely. Thank you for sharing all of that. And the way that we generally end our Taboo Tuesdays is that I'm going to pull up a list of questions that are taboo questions about all kinds of different topics. Read them over, pick one that you like, and read it out loud, and then answer it.

Let's see. I'll go with the second one. What is something you're secretly very proud of yourself for? I want to answer this one because it was the one that I wanted to answer the least. I think I've had a huge problem with feeling proud of myself and feeling accomplished. Just because I deal with a lot of insecurities and struggles, that's never been something that's really registered for me. I've noticed since Madhappy started getting successful, it seems like everyone else in my life is so much more excited for my own life than I am, which I've been working on. So, I guess I just want to say that I'm secretly proud of myself, I guess, for just working really hard and really learning as much as I can, and keeping an open mind, and really dedicating everything I have to building this community, and building this brand, and really trying to inspire as many people as we can to take their own mental health more seriously.

Just talk about it with your friends, feel optimistic, feel the power of positivity through our apparel, our content, or coming into one of our stores, and really just this whole world that we're trying to build and this movement as a whole, which is really just getting started and I think is bigger than any of us can even really comprehend. So, I'm proud of myself for that.

As you should be. And thank you for sharing that and definitely recommend everyone go check out Madhappy. Mason, thank you so much for being here today and I really appreciate the conversation.

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for doing this show. It's super important and inspires me all the time. So, thanks for having me on.

Absolutely. Take care.

Bye.

Bye-bye. Thanks for listening to Emotionally Fit, hosted by me, Dr. Emily Anhalt. New Taboo Tuesdays drop every other week. How did today's taboo subject land with you? Tweet your experience with the hashtag #EmotionallyFit, and follow me at @DrEmilyAnhalt. Please rate, review, follow, and share the show wherever you listen to podcasts. This podcast is produced by Coa, your gym for mental health, where you can take live, therapist-led classes online. From group sessions to therapist matchmaking, Coa will help you build your emotional fitness routine. Head to joincoa.com, that's join-c-o-a.com, to learn more, and follow us on Twitter and Instagram at @joincoa. From StudioPod Media in San Francisco, our producer is Katie Sunku Wood. Music is by Milano. Special thanks to the entire Coa crew!