The Movie Wars crew dives into the Snyder Trilogy by kicking off their discussion with "Man of Steel," motivated by James Gunn's recent trailer for a new Superman movie. The hosts debate the film's portrayal of Superman and his struggle with identity, examining how it balances the hero's alien nature with his human upbringing. They also explore the impact of supporting characters like Jor-El, Martha Kent, and Zod, with particular praise for Michael Shannon's performance as a compelling villain. The conversation touches on the film's visual style, the effectiveness of its action sequences, and the tone that Snyder sets compared to previous interpretations of Superman. Ultimately, the crew reflects on how this film reshapes the superhero narrative, setting the stage for the complex themes to be explored in the upcoming entries of the series.

Stoked to feature ads from our friend's Greatest Movie of All-Time Podcast and Shoot The Flick!

The Movie Wars crew dives into the Snyder Trilogy series, sparked by the recent trailer release for James Gunn's upcoming Superman film. This episode centers around the exploration of Zack Snyder's reinterpretation of Superman in 'Man of Steel,' which has been met with both praise and criticism. The hosts engage in a lively discussion about the movie's themes, character development, and the broader implications of Snyder's vision for the superhero genre. They highlight the contrast between Snyder's darker, more complex portrayal of Superman and the traditional, more optimistic interpretations. The dialogue touches on the significance of Clark Kent's duality as an alien and a human, the emotional weight of his decisions, and how this film sets the stage for the ensuing Snyder Trilogy. With moments of humor interspersed in their analysis, they reflect on the cultural expectations surrounding superhero films and how Snyder's approach challenged those norms. As they dissect the film's performances, particularly Henry Cavill's as Superman and Michael Shannon's as Zod, they consider how these characters embody the film's core conflict of identity and responsibility, paving the way for deeper discussions in future episodes.

Takeaways:

• The Movie Wars crew explores the impact of Zack Snyder's interpretation of Superman, emphasizing his unique approach to character development and storytelling.
• Listeners are introduced to a new perspective on Superman's struggles with identity, showcasing the film's focus on his human side alongside his alien heritage.
• The discussion highlights the importance of supporting characters like Lois Lane and Jor-El, who contribute significantly to the narrative and emotional depth of the film.
• The crew critiques the visual effects of the movie, particularly the tornado scene, questioning its realism and overall execution.
• Michael Shannon's portrayal of Zod is praised for bringing a terrifying and complex villain to life, showcasing the stakes of the conflict with Superman.
• The podcast concludes with the acknowledgment of the Snyder Trilogy's cultural significance, as it redefines superhero narratives and sets the stage for future films.

Mentioned in this episode:

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Shoot The Flick Podcast

Movie wars.

Just start.

Ladies and gentlemen, Drew has got something stuck in his crawl.

That's why you guys replaced me with Marian.

Intros like that where I tried to drink all my coffee beforehand.

We were gonna intro the show, and Drew had never heard the phrase get stuck in my craw.

It's old phrase if you haven't heard it.

And then we.

We start the podcast, and something got stuck in his throat.

Craw.

And whatever a craw is, it can go anywhere.

Yeah.

I think the reason that's an old phrase is because it's so weird.

And people, we evolved as a society, and we're like, let's not say weird stuff like that.

It sounds both strangely innocent and strangely crass at the same time.

It's like, this sounds like it was in the 20s, but it also sounds like this could be a horrible thing.

It also sounds like it's like in the next, like, rap music video.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lil Craw stuck in cr.

May.

I hope somebody gives us credit for that, because there will be a little crawl.

Now you watch.

Perfect.

Yeah.

And it started here on the Movie wars podcast.

I actually did research.

75% of our audience are mumble rappers.

There we go.

Perfect.

That's helpful.

That's our demographic.

Well, you know.

You know, Seth has gotten on my good side when we are voluntarily covering hero movies outside of Batman, because that's the only one I care about.

But James Gunn just released his a trailer for the new Superman, and it got.

It got.

It was very.

It was viral right off the bat.

Oh, yeah.

I.

I know Matthew Blevins wouldn't mind me quoting him, but Matthew Blevins said the funniest thing about this.

He said.

I sent it to him and said, what do you think about this?

He says, it looks like a Sprint ad from the mid aughts.

He's not wrong.

I've texted him twice since then saying I randomly thought about that text and laughed.

Right.

Just out of nowhere.

Like, I was on the phone at work and I thought about Sprint ad from the mid aughts and just started laughing.

And he is not wrong.

Like, you said it.

We're not here to talk about it, but that's why we're doing it.

But the trail looks horrible.

It looks like dog shit looks so bad.

Well, the dog is the best part of it.

Yeah.

And people have been memeing the shit out of that dog.

It's like, Super Lassie.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, I.

I understand why everyone's like, it's Kane and he's Been in the comics since the 50s.

He's been.

I don't know why we're putting him in this movie.

It just feels so weird.

It's like Homeward Bound, but with Superman.

I'm cool with it.

No, to me, the trailer.

The trailer was just so generic.

Like, at the end of it, I was like, okay, so that's.

That's a movie.

Yeah.

Well, and Superman is kind of a generic hero because of, you know, he's one of the oldest and.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, he's kind of a generic superhero.

He wears red, red and blue, and it's like, yeah.

But every deviation lately has been, how can we make him not generic?

Oh, my gosh.

So I.

Because after watching it, the trailer, I remember thinking, like, well, I wonder if they're gonna do anything different.

That seems so generic.

And then in rewatching man of Steel and Batman versus Superman, I was like, oh, okay.

So maybe a little generic would.

Would help.

Yeah.

Here.

Okay.

Are you about to get in the history?

Because I have some shit to say about the.

Yeah, I'll kick us off.

Yeah, we were.

We were actually gonna start a new franchise in February.

I think we were looking at.

We were looking at a bunch.

And then Seth texted me, is like, hey, did you see the new trailer?

He's like, we should do the Snyder trilogy.

Yeah.

Because it was timely, and we're trying to get more timely here.

Usually I, I.

My.

I'm.

I'm a contrarian.

So someone's like, hey, we should do something about this movie.

Because this thing's out.

Let's go watch the racist Batman series.

Yes.

Let's do that instead.

Let's be the antithesis of what's in culture.

But I have wanted to kind of get into it because, I mean, not just because of the Superman trailer, but the Snyder stuff.

It's funny because I don't keep up with the culture of movies.

I just care about the movies.

I don't care about celebrities.

I obsess over the movies.

Yeah.

I typically miss out on this stuff, and I find out about it much later.

Like, when the Snyder trilogy came out, I started seeing all these comments and stuff.

I was like, why is everybody so upset about this?

Yeah.

You know, and so.

And then I go, when man of Steel came out, people were actually, for the most part, obviously, you had the dissenters.

But at the time, Man Of Steel was considered to be an incredible.

You sound like you're, like you run a country.

Obviously we have the centers.

We don't talk about that.

I am the king of Snyderville.

We just let the military take care of those people.

Yeah.

The Earl of Snyder done.

I do.

I remember seeing man of Steel in theaters and absolutely loving it.

And, and actually really enjoying because the big part was the controversial ending.

That's where the dissenter.

Yeah.

And.

Well, that and the color correction and the tone of it, which I'll get into it as I keep going.

But I remember for that movie, really liking that that was the end.

Yeah.

And I'll be.

But I'll be honest, in my, in our rewatching of it, I, I think I'm.

I, I think I let the whole love for superhero movies my first roll around get me more with man of Steel because when I watched it this time, I still liked it.

Yeah.

But there are some things that I.

And then, then going it then I was a lot more aware with them.

When we get into our next episode, we talk about Batman versus Superman.

But man of Steel, if it was just by itself, it holds up.

It's.

It's a very solid movie.

Yeah.

Here's the thing.

You have to remember the time period.

It came out the year before.

We had just wrapped up the Dark Knight trilogy with the Dark Knight Rises and the first Avengers movie had come out both in the same year or literally within months of each other.

At the time, people, when they, when they saw they were going to do a Superman movie, literally everybody online was like, oh, wouldn't it be awesome if we had like a Christopher Nolan type Superman movie?

Like, that is literally what people were begging for.

And so when he signed on to produce, executive produce, and then Zack Snyder came on to direct it, people were excited because they thought they were going to get something different from Marvel and something a little more in the grounded tone of the Dark Knight trilogy.

So, I mean, that's kind of where this whole thing started was people hoping that the Superman series was going to have a very similar tone to the Dark Knight.

And it's interesting when I think about, like the Snyderverse, because I feel like, I don't know, maybe.

Maybe one day you'll.

Seth, you can teach.

I don't know if you teach this.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I teach this at community college.

I think someone should teach a unit of film of a film class and entitle it.

What went wrong with the Snyderverse?

I can tell you exactly what went wrong with this?

Because I think there's a lot of good things about the movies that.

That we saw from it.

Yeah.

But I think there's a lot of things that it.

Like, it makes sense now in the future to be like, oh, that's why the movies ended up not finishing.

Yeah.

Before they.

But for me, I think the biggest problem was, and you said it yourself, like, right from the minute they started man of Steel, it was leading.

There was always like, we're going to make our version of the Avengers.

Yeah.

And so there was always this long, drawn out chronicle of movies we're gonna make.

And somehow in thinking of the big picture, they forgot the kind of important thing, in my opinion, which is each movie needs to be good.

Sure.

And now I know if we were to look at Marvel nowadays, we could say that they've also forgotten that.

But before the first Avengers, every single Marvel movie stood by itself.

Yeah.

And then the first Avengers maybe capitalized on that.

But it.

And I still think man of Steel may, at the most, maybe that one could stand by itself.

Right.

But I mean.

Well, we'll get into the next movie in the next episode.

I don't want to.

Here's.

Here's the thing.

Just to give a little overview of the movies we're about to go over.

We're not going to go through the entire dceu.

We're not going to go over Wonder Woman or Aquaman or Suicide Squad or any of those other movies.

We just wanted to focus on these.

But when you look at the broader picture of what Warner Brothers and DC did with the dceu, I've actually looked at the box office numbers, and every movie that Zack Snyder had a direct hand in working on killed at the box office.

Man of Steel, I think, was above half.

Half a billion dollars at the box office.

I think it was 800 BVs made even more legitimately.

Wonder Woman made a shit ton of money.

Uh, then you had Justice League, which still did well in the box office, but was nowhere near as well received.

And then that's when things started to go downhill because you saw Zack Snyder have to check out.

He had a child who committed suicide, and so he had to leave the franchise at the time.

And Warner Brothers started nitpicking every single thing that every director did because Batman vs Superman was so divisive.

I can't personally say it was not well received because there is an entire half of the fan base that raves, especially over the Ultimate Edition.

But overall, kind of like the Last Jedi, it Very much split the entire fandom as far as people who loved it and people who hated it.

And there really isn't much middle ground.

But once you see Warner Brothers really getting their fingers in the tone of the universe, which mostly started with Suicide Squad Squad, that's when you really see the box office numbers continuously go down.

Yeah, yeah.

There's this.

They're almost.

I don't know if they knew they were doing this at the time when they decided to do this.

Obviously, we're focused on man of Steel today, but we're also introducing this whole franchise.

They're recovering, but, you know, they really stepped in it without, I think, knowing, because not only.

So you have what you just talked about with the background of the film that was divisive, and then never has it because of the Internet.

Never has canonization also been.

Oh, yeah, such a hot topic.

So they're.

They're purposely stumbling into this.

Like, not only the stuff you talked about with the background, but, like, then you have the comic book warriors.

And again, I don't have a problem with them, but I just disclaimer, I love Batman, but that's the only superhero I care about.

I am disregarding the comics for this.

Not.

Not that I'm saying it's not important, but, yeah, I will be approaching this as a film.

So before you at me about the canon, there are dozens of different comic book storylines that are out there.

So many different iterations.

Yes.

Yeah.

So I'm looking at this as a movie, you know, a little more.

I think you probably know more about the comics.

I don't know about.

I know very little about any.

Any comics.

I wasn't really into them growing up.

I do enjoy superhero movies, but for me, because each comic storyline is its own thing.

Why can't the movies be their own thing?

We should treat the movies as their own version of the story.

I think there's nothing wrong with looking at great comics and appreciating the great comic, but then looking at the movie adaptation of it and be like, it missed its mark.

I mean, in other things, we do that with books all the time.

We do that with.

I mean, even.

Even movie.

We.

We've done it here with movie reboots, you know, when, like, it's just.

It's hard to take something that people love so much.

Yeah.

And I mean, I don't.

I just think it's unfair to that thing to give the same kind of reverence to a movie based off of it.

Like, I mean, because I think.

I think that's the part of the challenge for the director is.

And not just the director, but everyone in the filmmaking process, even from the actors who are playing the individual characters, is you want to do something in a way where it pays homage or does well for the original comic version.

But then there's also the whole creativity part of it, where you want to add your own creative liberty to this.

And Zack.

Zack Snyder did a lot of creative liberties with this whole series, but remember.

He is also trying to build on people who may not be into the comics.

Yes.

Trying to get them into the.

Which is fair.

And so.

And I.

But I almost.

When it's done well, or at least when it's the way that I.

I enjoy.

I like it when you.

You know, if a movie is adapting something else and then it takes its own creative liberties, it makes it kind of more fun, like a little.

Like a little twist.

It's like, I really like cover songs as long as they're good and have, like, a good electric guitar solo at some point.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I mean.

Yeah, sometimes the.

The COVID of a song is what becomes more famous.

Yeah.

So, like, Hurt by Johnny Cash is.

A Nine Inch Nails cover, and everyone knows the Johnny Cash version.

Yep.

Literally every hymn in the Protestant.

Yeah.

Because it started off as a drinking song at a bar.

Yep.

Yeah.

In case anyone is.

In case anyone listens to the Movie wars podcast for church history trivia.

There you go.

Yeah.

Wasn't one of the greatest hymn writers blind?

I'm sure.

Yeah.

That's what he was doing.

He's ripping off drunkards.

They didn't even know he's blind.

They wouldn't accuse him.

He was the first Weird Al Yankovic.

Yeah.

Surely the blind guy wasn't ripping off our drinking songs for the church, was he?

That's a movie in and of itself.

I thought I was just at a restaurant.

I didn't know it was at a bar.

That's your next movie, dude.

Yeah.

That's hilarious.

That's a hilarious idea, actually.

There we go.

Some, like, medieval.

Yeah.

So let's get into our experiences.

You know, I'll kick off because, you know, I.

I really like Batman a lot, and I've read some of the comics, but outside of that, you know, mcu.

I'm just gonna be honest.

It doesn't get me excited, and I don't hate that other people hate it.

There's just so much of it out in the world.

There's just so many.

And every time I see they're making another property, I'm like, it's over.

Yeah.

It's like, it was good when it was good, you know, and.

Yeah.

So, you know, my thing with Superman is I in these movies.

We'll get into it more later, but these movies actually confuse me even worse because my biggest problem with Superman is knowing what his limitations are.

And we.

You say kryptonite.

That's like the obvious one.

But it's like, when does his punch hurt the most?

You know, it's like, because he's invincible in a lot of ways.

I never, in these movies, like, every Superman movie I've seen, like.

Well, I don't really know what his limitations are.

Batman's very easy because he's a man, you know, he's not an alien.

He's a man with gadgets.

Yeah.

And so it's easier to kind of, you know, demarcate where.

Where he is not supernatural.

Yeah.

But with Superman.

Except he's got the supernatural plot armor.

Like, when you're watching him in the next movie.

I mean, it was literal armor, but we'll get to that next movie.

That's true in every alliteration of Batman because that's the biggest thing to be.

Like, he doesn't have any superpowers.

I was like, he has the writers section of the room.

That's the superpower.

Is they.

He can money.

Yeah.

But when.

When they start getting in the fights, especially towards the end of man of Steel, like in.

And they're destroying the, you know, 2 trillion doll worth of property damage, which.

I will say, in preparation for this, even before we fully decided I knew we were going to do it eventually, I went through for the first time the entire animated series of Superman.

Oh, good for you.

Same shit, dude.

They destroying the city left and right, and then suddenly next episode, it's all back together.

So, I mean, this is kind of standard for Superman.

You know, if you're a.

If you're a construction worker, if you're an architect, Metropolis is the place to move.

Literally.

You will always have work.

Yes.

Then why wasn't the song Break Stuff by Limp Bizkit?

It should have been on the soundtrack.

Think every movie everywhere should have a Limp Bizkit song.

Absolutely.

Big fan.

But that's the reel that will make everyone hate this podcast.

Yeah.

No, it should have the Deftones.

The Deftones.

The Limp Biscuits.

The.

The Limp Biscuits.

Limp.

The Biscuits.

Limp Biscuits and Gravy.

So when I.

I actually saw this pretty close to the time it came out, and I, I, I'll be honest, I just kind of went into it negatively.

Just because I don't like Superman.

Fair.

I was excited when I heard Seasons by Chris Cornell on the soundtrack.

That's one of my favorite songs of all time.

That was kind of cool.

But, you know, by and large, like, I like Henry Cavill.

I like what he does here.

I.

I like the things they're aiming at.

I do like this dark approach.

Obviously, though, it was like, well, Nolan's involved, Goyer's involved.

It's like.

But this isn't a Nolan movie.

Yeah.

Right.

And it's always been weird for me to see him.

His name on it and his involvement, but it's like, he has such a high standard.

Yeah.

And it's like.

Like, was this okay with him?

Like, did he just kind of inspire him to do this stuff?

So that was always a big point of contention for me.

It's like, well, I know it's not a.

And he loves these movies.

He does.

He literally.

Every time he's talked about Zack Snyder in these movies, he's been very, like, very full of praise.

He.

He and Zack Snyder are very close friends.

Actually, when Justice League came out, which we are covering, he literally told Zack, do not go see this movie.

You will be.

You will be crushed by what they did to your baby.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

I wonder if that.

This.

This might be cynical, but does he love those movies?

Because he loves Zack Snyder and he's a good friend and just in the way I would support either of you.

Or, like, he also.

Is it because he's a good movie director and he looks at these like, this is a good work of art.

Fast and the Furious is his favorite series.

So, I mean, take that as you will.

You know, Liz does claim Tokyo Drift is the best.

That's.

We talk.

We talk about that at the Quarter Mile podcast.

It's kind of like how, you know, there you read stories about Michelin star chefs that love McDonald's.

Yeah.

I'm not saying that it's that disparate.

Like, I know that sounds like I'm shitting on this movie a lot, but when you compare this to a Nolan, like, there's.

It's not the same level of like.

Like the standard.

I mean, I.

I genuinely think man of Steel could easily fit in the Nolan universe.

Really?

I absolutely do.

So I see.

This is where I know you two are going to start ganging up on me.

I'm going to disagree.

I'm going to use your Nolan love against you.

Now, granted, you.

You've been spared for the Most part you haven't.

You haven't been.

You haven't been the ire.

We've been pretty positive for the most part.

Yeah, yeah.

But I try to get, I try to keep it positive.

I also try to give space when I respectfully disagree.

Only in that I think this, now this would movie would fit in the actual universe with, you know, Batman from Nolan, Nolan verse and the color scheme and that version of Metropolis.

Absolutely.

But like, if we were.

I feel like if it was in the same universe and we were comparing the overall plots of the Dark Knight trilogy versus even just the man is still, we'd be like, oh, this one, this one kind of fell short.

Yeah.

What do you mean by we, Kemo Sabi?

Whoa.

We the general public of people.

See, that's the thing is again, especially when man of Steel came out, the vast majority of people were totally on board with it.

And I personally don't really see any issues story wise.

So feel free to tell me your grievances.

But especially just concerning man of Steel, like, I think it is everything it needed to be to bring in a new version of Superman.

Because when you look at the five Superman movies we had before this, we had the four Christopher Reeves movies and then we had Superman Returns with Brandon Ralph and having for the first time very recently seen the first Superman movie and Superman Returns, I don't like the tone that they take because there is nothing for me to give a about Superman.

Right.

I don't care about Clark Kent.

I don't care about Superman because there is no emotion behind that character.

He's just the, oh, I'm gonna beat everyone and I'm cool.

Here we go.

I'll reverse time by turning the world backwards.

That was so stupid.

And it's in the first movie.

That's the one.

Everyone's like, this is the greatest Superman movie ever.

I'm like, they're horrible.

As far as, like, there's a lot of good I could pull out of both them and the Brandon Routh versions.

But overall the tone of them I just don't think made me care about the person the movie is named after.

TV and animated Superman's where it's at.

That's all.

I.

I haven't seen any of the live action TV shows, but I've heard great things about them.

But as far as the Animated series go, I think they make Brandon Routh's and Christopher Reeve's version look terrible.

Now this, on the other hand, the reason I like it so much is because at least for the First, I don't know, hour and 45 minutes of the movie, you are focused on Clark's struggle with trying to figure out how to be a human, but also who's an alien.

He's trying to figure out his place in this crazy world where he knows the moment people know what he can do, he's gonna get looked at strange.

So I, I think this is the first time we've really seen in film form.

I'm not going to include TV in this, in this statement, but in film form that we've actually seen the, the character of Clark Kent really struggle with the emotions of being a person that has all these powers.

Yeah, I don't.

I, I like 80% agree.

Okay, I, I'll, I'll, I'll.

And like I said, film only not including tv because I know, I know big.

Because I've been told that the live action shows really do capture that struggle.

But of course, they have more space to.

Yeah, exactly.

Build the character.

And here, here was the thing that was.

Here were the couple things that were interesting to me about man of Steel as it pertains to Superman.

First of all, right from the very beginning, Snyder's very clear that this is going to be a different version of Superman than we've seen.

Even in the flashback sequence when they say this was the most useless and weird thing to me, but it added to the characters.

This is the first natural born child that is authentically Snyder thing.

Oh, 100%.

And it also, later in the movie and for the rest of the series, has no use whatsoever.

Oh, I disagree with that.

But that was the reason he could absorb the codex.

Okay, okay, that makes sense.

But okay, so right from the bat, when we are seeing Clark, we're seeing a more human version of Superman in that this.

I mean, at the end, of course, the big ones, when he has to make the choice to kill in every other version of Superman, he always finds a way to save the day and not kill at the same time.

Right at the beginning, when he's coming back from the Arctic at one point, he steals people's clothing.

Superman doesn't steal.

This version does.

And it's kind of letting you know that this is a flawed hero, which is like, what they.

What?

And actually with all the heroes, they eventually, they kind of show.

And then there's the scene, of course, when, you know, he's struggling with his anger that the guy at the bar who pours the drink on him and he could punch him out, but he doesn't, but he still goes and impales the truck on the thing.

And that's the movie's way of showing you, okay, he didn't kill him, but he does have a bit of a temper, and he did.

Whereas any other version of Superman would have figured out a way to fix the issue with his words and make a lesson out of it.

You know, citizen, you really shouldn't be consuming this much alcohol.

So.

But.

So they frequently have humanized in this movie his alien ness.

Yeah.

And that.

But the one thing that they.

But the whole movie is all about the Superman side of Superman.

Whereas in every other telling of Superman, you have the Clark Kent, him growing up as a human and dealing with human things, but then you also have his superhero real version of himself.

And this movie was interesting to me because they humanized Superman more while completely neglecting his human side.

Like, we didn't even see him dawn on the geeky Clarkness.

And he made it look cooler than it usually does.

I mean, he's a bit too sexy.

Yeah.

He's kind of the nerd in real life.

So.

I mean, he is actually the video game addict.

Yeah.

He almost missed this audition.

I'm sure it's one of your randos.

He almost missed this audition because he was playing World of Warcraft.

Yeah.

It's amazing.

I actually didn't know that.

It's amazing.

Oh, yeah.

It's so great.

Yeah.

That.

So I.

It was interesting to me because this Superman lacked a few of the things that make Superman Superman.

But I don't feel like it necessarily took away from the first movie.

Sure.

And later one, then this Batman versus Superman.

Superman 100% becomes a plot device.

And we can talk about that next week.

But yeah, see, I think I disagree with you because I feel like the majority of the movie focuses on him as Clark.

It's him coming to terms with the fact that there are two versions of himself.

But you never see his human side.

You're always seeing him as Clark dealing with supernatural stuff.

I wear's the.

I mean, the whole thing about how he has the ability to do certain things but has to choose to hide it because that's what his dad has said is the best thing for him because the world wouldn't be ready to accept it.

Like, again, it's.

It's.

He hasn't figured out who he is yet.

So there is no geeky Clark yet.

That's what happens in.

In BVs, where you actually do see a lot more of Clark in the whole office circumstances.

But in this, it's.

It's Again, something we have never seen on film before.

And that's him actually having to struggle with figuring out who is my public Persona, Clark Kent, and who am I actually.

Superman.

See, I mean, different opinions are different opinions.

I feel like this movie, all we see is him coming to terms with his alien side, which is fine.

Which is.

And that was the thrust of the movie.

But what was interesting to me was in the first time in movie, or maybe even Superman in general, there might be.

Many people may know this is where I'm wrong, and for the first time, they'll correct us.

Yeah.

For the first time ever, we're seeing Superman with a much more human light.

I mean, originally, super Superman doesn't kill people.

Yeah.

In this one, that is the crux of what he has to do to save the greater good.

Yeah.

And, you know, he is the archetype of the superheroes.

Like, everything can be.

This day can be saved.

There can be no casualties, and everybody can win because of.

Because Superman is able to save it.

This time, this movie, it was all about.

There are consequences, there are costs, there are.

You know, he had to make sacrifices.

Yeah.

And he had to save the day by killing someone.

And then at the end, you get to see the turmoil he had from killing someone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I would argue they were maybe setting this up if.

If the Snyderverse got its entirety.

It was.

Snyder had a plan from the beginning.

It would have.

It would have led to the Injustice storyline, and it would have led to Superman becoming a villain that Batman had to stop.

Yeah.

Which I do feel like is worth mentioning.

Snyder did have a fully drawn out plan from the very beginning as far as the movies he wanted to make.

He left all of the extras and spin offs up to Warner Brothers.

But basically, he said, my core movies are going to be man of Steel, bvs, Wonder Woman, Justice League, Ben Affleck, solo Batman movie that never got made, Aquaman, man of Steel two, and two more Justice League movies that was going to hit Injustice and then a final movie that was going to, according to reports, have a Return of the King level battle for Earth against Darkseid, and then was going to finish with a Flashpoint movie that would let Warner Brothers do whatever they wanted with the universe after that.

So he.

He had a plan.

And like I said, when you look at the box office numbers, it's clear that once Warner Brothers started putting their fingers and everything, that's when everything started to go down and they lost the plan that he had.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What a mess.

Yeah.

We need a Hero.

Yeah, I need a hero.

I know that you have friends out there on Reddit talking about how this isn't canon, that nothing is canon.

I am banned from the Snyder Cut subreddit, so.

Oh, yeah, you are.

I'm not gonna go in there.

I just don't even shouldn't.

It's a show.

I don't want to deal with it.

That's the thing.

I get so afraid when we do these movies, because I know that, like, I'm stepping into it.

Like, last time we covered a Star wars movie because, you know, I don't like Star wars, but I tried to be as nice as possible.

I.

I wanted to quit podcasting.

I was like, these people.

I can't.

Which one did you cover?

The.

The Fallen?

No, that.

We did start a Star Trek reboot versus I had a kid, remember?

It was Episode seven.

Okay.

So trilogy.

Yeah.

So that's.

That's interesting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was.

It was a shit show.

I'm sure.

Like, I said Star Trek.

I know I did, but I was just waiting and, like, somebody.

It's track, and I was like, I did say it, but I'm also, like, Filipino American.

Okay.

Give me a fucking break, all right.

I have an aneurysm, though.

But if you have a friend that's spending too much time on Reddit, get them to take a break, listen to this podcast, calm their soul.

This podcast can become canon to you.

There you go.

There we go.

That's right.

Imagine.

Imagine Superman is destroying Nashville, and we're here just talking about it.

That's right.

That's right.

Oh, the Batman building just got blown up.

Yeah, that's funny.

The Batman.

The bitter rivalry.

We have a Batman building.

Here's the AT&T building.

Google it.

It's pretty great.

Yeah, it's fine.

It somehow has become Nashville's identity.

Yeah.

So weird.

It's our Empire State Building.

Yeah.

The question questions.

Kevin Costner got pretty far into that tornado before he got sucked up.

Huh?

For real, though.

Good Lord.

That was like an F3.

And he was basically standing.

He was standing in the tornado for at least five.

It's like he should have been off the ground before it was even that close to him.

He should have just said, hey, Superman, can you go get the dog?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That.

Honestly, that one sequence is probably my biggest gripe with the movie is I think.

I think that whole thing could have been handled way better.

Like, I get they wanted to kill him off to give Superman a little bit more to, like, you know, ground him to Earth.

But.

Yeah.

I just don't think that whole scene was done as well as it could have been.

Yeah, I don't.

I think they could have done it better.

I don't quite know how, but.

You're right.

It just kind of.

I get what they were trying to do and they.

They just jumped right into it.

Killed him off.

And as a viewer, you're just like, okay, I guess that.

I mean.

But as a suit.

As a Superman fan, I know that part of Superman's develop is the death of his father.

I was kind of in the Animated Series.

His parents are both alive in the Animated Series.

True.

But I was kind of bummed that they didn't.

I mean, because one of the.

For lack of better word, beautiful parts of Clark's dad's passing is it's usually by some kind of, like, heart attack or something.

Something that's outside of Superman's control.

Yeah.

And that's a big thing for him to overcome.

Because part of the appeal to Superman fans is when Clark has to deal.

Superman has to deal with things that.

That he can't solve.

So anytime.

Kryptonites.

And that's a.

That's a big plot device.

Yeah.

But also anytime there's sickness that's like, in human error, that's it.

That's a sickness.

That's a problem.

Anytime people he loves.

I mean, that's the big thing with the injustice.

One, he goes crazy once Lois dies.

And then another one people forget about often about, like, magic really messes with him.

Yeah.

It's like, those are so.

It's always fun to see.

That's how you humanize Superman a little bit.

By putting him up against things that his powers can't fix.

Yeah.

Which to compare, I do appreciate what Zack Snyder was trying to do with this scene where he knew he could have saved him.

And his struggle was respecting his father's wishes by not doing the thing he knew he could have done.

How long do you think Martha got.

Had.

Got.

How long did it take her to get over the fact that her son could have just ran in there and saved her husband?

She never seemed too bothered by it.

She was like.

I mean, in the movie, they talk about it, like, in the scene before he goes.

Well, it's when she's in the destroyed house.

They kind of do touch on it.

And.

And I think she kind of understood, like, what his purpose in not letting Clark save him was.

But.

Yeah, again, that.

That's probably my biggest.

That was a big mom moment there.

She realized there's there's what I want to say and what I need to say to my child.

Yeah, that tornado looked horrible.

I'm sorry.

The CGI was bad.

It made the twister CGI look, like, incredible.

And.

Yeah, yeah.

And he.

He was standing way too far into that tornado.

He should have been sucked up.

Like, that kind of tornado would.

Sucked you up like, well before it got to that point.

But he's just standing there with the debris just like, that's gonna kill me.

It looked cool.

It did look cool.

And I get it as far as, like, the visual thing, but.

No, I agree with you.

That scene is.

Is.

It's the one thing I'm like, with.

With the Snyder movies.

I do sometimes get tired of the every.

The.

The.

The.

The pressure to make everything look like a visual masterpiece.

And the.

All the.

The later you get the visions and the dreams and you get the.

Everything's supposed to be like an allegory.

Yeah.

Sometimes I like watching things and just like, oh, there's a man being sucked up by a tornado.

Yeah, sure.

But then again, you're watching a superhero movie directly after the Avengers had come out.

Like, there had to be some visual spectacle to kind of let it.

The beginning of the dceu live up to that.

So, yeah, there was definitely pressure on both sides.

It definitely could have been better.

But I also don't think it was shit.

It was all right, but, yeah, definitely not the best.

I had a lot of stupid comedian thoughts during that scene.

I was like, what if.

What if his dad died because he was like, like Superman used his vision to, like, laser off a melanoma and, like.

And accidentally like, pierced his dad's brain or something.

It's like.

It's like.

Damn it.

I knew we should have just gone to the dermatologist.

I'm Superman.

I'm not a scientist.

I don't know.

Dad was all like, we don't have insurance, son.

It's either this or I die.

You better use that laser vision, by the way.

The gas is off.

Can you cook within the skillet there?

Just heat it up, son.

I'm tired of wearing glasses.

Can you do Lasix on me?

I don't want those damn doctors.

They track you for the government.

Yeah.

Where I'm from, that's exactly how we would use if, like, I adopted an alien superhero in accident.

I've been using the superpowers to.

With people like, hey, Jimmy, Jimmy the neighbor.

Why don't you go burn the cat?

The hair off his cat.

So he's just naked yeah.

Next question.

I don't care how advanced the Kryptonians are.

Who the fuck architected the designs of these UFOs?

They are like this all over.

First of all, they kind of look like someone watched Prometheus.

Yeah, they got that.

And the suits have the look.

Prometheus came out after this.

That's.

Oh, really?

That's crazy.

Oh, yeah.

They look like Prometheus, and then the UFOs are just, like, random and weird.

Like, that doesn't look very aerodynamic.

Yeah, I mean, it looks like a giant tooth just coming down there for space.

They're not supposed to be aerodynamic, you idiot.

I care.

Brought to you by your neighborhood dentist.

I don't.

They don't look very effective, even.

Okay, you're right.

Okay, that was dumb.

They're not.

They're for space.

But still, even then, don't.

Don't you need some space flight?

Yeah, I don't go to space.

What did you go to space?

Vacuum of space works.

I don't know how space works.

I don't know.

I.

I had questions about them from the very beginning when they were like.

Instead of saying, like, hey, we should all leave Krypton.

It's about to blow up, they were like, hey, I'm going to leave Krypton.

And how weird was like, them infusing the Codex with Clark and.

Or Kal El.

And, like, it's like the whole time I'm just like, is this, like, the best way to do all of this?

Well, I mean, remember, at that point, you're dealing with the downfalls of.

Of that kind of governmental system.

Yeah.

Is what he's trying to do when there's so much red tape that you can't even agree, hey, we should leave this fucking rock.

Yeah, Like, I.

Again, I get it.

I don't.

I don't have a problem with it.

I mean, it was.

It was fun to watch.

It was the intro to the movie.

But the whole time I'm like, yeah, they could all just, like, also, the.

First time on film that we've actually seen the origin of Superman.

Yeah, so.

Because that wasn't really.

I think it was very briefly in the very first one, but nothing in depth, where you.

Again, to me, it just gives you more of an idea of where he came from and.

And.

And why he's so split, because he very clearly has the two pieces of him pulling himself apart.

Well, to me, when I watched it, it was.

It was setting up the fact that they were really gonna focus More on the alien side of Superman.

Yeah.

Like the whole.

I mean, and then, you know, Zod coming back.

I mean, that's a.

Yeah.

I mean, that Zod is a very alien villain for Superman versus Lex Luthor, who's a very human.

Which I think, honestly, it was a good idea to start with Zod and have the little nods to LexCorp and Wayne Tech.

As you see during the big fight scenes, there's a couple of those.

Yeah.

Pieces put together.

But no, I, I, I do think it was solid to start with an alien villain to, to give him a reason to decide, do I give a.

About Earth or am I just gonna do the thing?

Like, am I gonna go back with these people because they're my blood.

Yeah.

I thought, I thought, I thought Zod was a great villain.

I thought Michael Shannon was so good.

I thought, I love him.

The.

Any, Any time that, I mean, that big old fight at the end between the two of them, that was, that was, that was, that was like.

If I hadn't already been caring about the movie, that's, that would have been like.

All right, this is what I'm ready to watch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Back to the UFO design.

My bad.

No, no, it's all good.

That's why the questions are here.

It generates discussion.

Right.

We're digging under rocks.

It's great.

I did want to come back to one more thing.

I do think this just hit me.

By the way, the UFOs do look like they're designed by someone that lives on a planet where they're no longer having sex.

You know, they are.

They're no longer having sex.

They are making.

They're making these babies in tubes.

They're no longer.

They're basically not allowed to have sex anymore.

Yeah.

You can tell.

Go ahead.

This guy was taking his frustration out on designing these UFOs.

That's why they're all elongated.

You know, he's like, oh, what I would do to this thing.

It's like car designs.

After everyone stopped doing acid and started doing cocaine.

Yeah.

How many.

How many people were having a good time on the.

That spaceship when the big old laser was drilling the earth, going up and down and up and down.

We need more soldiers to send.

They're all preoccupied.

And that's it.

Yeah.

That is now how they get off.

Yeah.

Finally, we can set off the world engine.

Not yours, Jimmy.

The actual one.

Put your pants back on and press the button.

I do think the biggest disadvantage coming to even just the world builder ships.

I think the biggest disadvantage this movie had Just going into it was having four years of Marvel previous to it.

Yeah.

Because with.

With Iron man and Even Iron Man 2 and Captain America and Thor, like, they were really able to start small scale and build into the Avengers levels threat, which.

Which I think is one reason why post End Game, everything just feels ridiculous because somehow they're trying to top End game with this.

They had to top Avengers before they could even put the Justice League together.

Like, they had to make a spectacle.

And I think that might have been where they might have gone wrong because if they had gone into it knowing that that's where they wanted to go.

Yeah.

But really focusing on, like, we're not, you know, we're on level one of the series.

Yeah.

So we need to keep it on level every.

Everything about the entire, like all the Snyderverse movies is setting up for the Justice League.

Setting up for.

And instead of keeping up with Jones, they're keeping up with Marvel.

And I think, I think that might have been.

And I, I get it because like, you know, fans are thinking it and saying it and it's all around you when you're making these news like, oh, is it going to be as good as the Avengers or is it going to be as a comedian?

When you say, like, I have a show next week and they're like, oh, is it at Zany's?

It's like, oh, it's in a brewery in the back room.

But.

But when you do those brewery shows, you're like, this is going to be the best damn brewery show in this back room.

Oh, yeah.

And then maybe one day it'll set me up for the Zany show or whatever.

But like, so I feel like everything about these movies always went back to like, we're going to make an amazing masterpiece in four movies.

Yeah.

And I feel like, I feel like one.

The big differences between Snyder and the MCU is Snyder, like, bit off a lot from the source material.

Like, even though I don't know the source material, what I did in research, he borrowed especially as he progresses towards Justice League for the.

With the next few films.

I say a few.

The next two films, including Josh.

Whatever.

Yeah.

It's hard.

It's hard to say, but they, He.

He basically picked.

Picked a lot of different scenarios from the comic books.

And I think mcu, they kept it pretty simplistic, comparatively.

Yeah.

I think they were more like, we're gonna do a lot of these.

Let's not try to like, overdo the source material.

Let's not try to please everyone.

We're Gonna like, kind of cherry pick.

I'm not sure why he did that.

That just to me, if you're making a movie, I don't know if, like.

Because he's a comic, Stan, he absolutely adores the comics.

And so I'm sure going into it, he was like, oh, we could do this, we could do this, we could do this.

And yeah, I can see how.

How again, I don't really know as much, especially about the Superman and DC comics overall, but I can see how for people who love those watching pieces get pulled from all over the place and get put into what I felt like just as a movie watcher was a reasonably cohesive story, I could see how you'd be like, wait, why is this here and this is here and this is here?

Like, I could see how that would.

Be because he altered it to fit together.

So he's.

He's both taking and like breaking them down.

Yeah.

Then, yeah.

If you really do care about the canon, I'm sure it pissed you off at that point.

It almost seems like it'd be easier and better to either pick one or.

Or pick, you know, a couple.

I mean, he picked like 15 at some point.

Yeah.

Or, you know, this is a nice thing that people should do more often in movies.

Make something new.

Like.

Yeah.

Like you, you know, give Superman a new threat that he hasn't had to deal with yet or, you know, later or with the Justice League or something like inflation.

Yeah, right.

What do you do when the cost of living.

You have no powers that help you with the cost of living?

Versus Versus JP Morgan.

Superman versus the Federal Reserve.

What if the whole second movie was just about, like, focused on his.

The lawsuit.

The government was.

Yeah.

Superman Attorney at law.

Yeah.

Instead of journalist.

Last question.

Superman may have saved humanity, but what the are they coming back to besides $2 trillion worth of property damage?

Where am I gonna live?

Where am I gonna work?

I don't know if my family's alive.

Thanks, Superman.

I mean, the Avengers literally destroyed half of Manhattan.

Yeah, it's true.

I mean, here's.

Okay, so this was a huge gripe, which I am.

Spoiler alert.

I.

I very much appreciate the fact that in the directly next movie, two years later, they hardcore start dealing with the reality of the damage that was caused physically.

So they had two Avengers movies and every other solo movie before they even thought about approaching.

Hey.

We kind of literally destroyed New York City.

Yeah.

Here a.

It's Par for the course as far as the Animated Series goes.

Like I said, they are knocking down buildings left and right.

And he'll.

He'll catch it, get everyone out, and then just let it collapse.

Yeah.

Like, he would have been horrible to have on 9 11.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I don't know.

I.

It's par for the course of superhero movies, and I feel like they dealt with it pretty quickly as far as, like, series like this.

Yeah.

I mean, in the next movie, they.

They have scenes where, you know, Batman's there and trying to save someone.

That doesn't.

I mean.

Yeah, yeah.

It is cool to see that the destruction comes to play in later plots, devices, and also just in comic books in general.

That is usually a good start to another story is, you know, you watch the next.

You read the next comic, you watch the next episode, you do the next.

Whatever next.

See the next movie.

And it starts with.

As the damage is happening, someone gets hurt, and then someone else turns to a villain because of that.

And that really, you know, this was the first time the world saw Superman.

So them seeing all that damage.

There was the two kinds of people.

The people that, you know, would end up, like, worshiping him and seeing him as a hero because he saved us from the aliens.

But then there's other people.

Like, I had a house and children.

I had one more payment on that car.

Yeah.

It was one thing I noticed that was kind of interesting because it goes along with the Superman that he's creating in this movie is usually Superman is all about saving people first and then fighting the bad guy.

Yeah.

And at the beginning, we see him do some heroics, you know, with the ship and a couple of the school bus.

When he's a kid.

Yeah.

But during that fight, man, like, it's kick Zod's ass and save people on the side.

But also, remember, this is technically his first actual outing.

Absolutely.

So.

But it.

But it is interesting that they really.

And that.

That's the thing that comes into play in all the movies is you do.

And it goes back to.

They're just painting a darker pictures of superheroes.

Like we.

At that stage point, all we've ever seen is the bright, happy, peppy, you know, always good guys, superheroes.

Now we're seeing.

We're seeing the dark sides of them.

No pun intended.

We're seeing the.

We're seeing the issues.

We're seeing them as flawed heroes.

It eventually leads into series like the boys and invincible.

And like.

Yeah, I was about to say Snyder got stomped on.

So the boys could run.

Yeah.

The Dark Knight kind of showed that we had interest in kind of dark.

The Dark Knight series showed that we had an interest in.

To kind of more emo superheroes a little bit.

The Snyderverse kind of helped us get there, and now we actually.

It's kind of interesting.

I feel like we're actually on the other end of the pendulum.

We've been getting tired of that.

We've also survived a pandemic.

We also have enough dark people in our world running our governments and doing our things.

We're ready for a bit more light stuff.

So I really think that this next Superman movie, we're not going to see him as dark.

We're not going to see him as.

Oh, no.

James Gunn has been very clear about that.

He's going to be more classic Superman.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it's just interesting to.

When you're watching this movie that you're reminded of this was the start of us kind of as a culture.

People that like superhero movies, kind of wanting to see them struggle.

Yeah.

Kind of want to see them do the.

Kind of want to see me get pissed at the drunk guy and throw this big old semi truck into a power line.

Yeah.

Regardless of the ramifications it has for the rest of the small town and the power outages that were bound to happen in the amount of money that that was going to cost everyone.

Just send them to the dmv.

Right.

Superman goes to the dmv.

Yeah.

Rando.

Rando.

Randos.

This is crazy.

Henry Cavill actually auditioned for Superman Returns, like, before it was even called that so early.

And he got rejected.

He was devastated because he loves Superman.

Yeah.

But then eventually he was elated and ecstatic when he got this one.

But it's kind of crazy that he.

Almost missed the audition.

And he almost missed the audition because he was playing World of Warcraft.

Yeah.

That's funny.

I didn't know that.

But I didn't know that he was, like, excited to be Geralt because he loves Witcher.

Yeah.

He's just the king of getting the perfect role for him and then having studios it out of him.

Yeah.

And then he's doing Warhammer, but he's.

A producer on that, so he has a little bit more creative control on that one.

Can you guys picture him as the Brandon Routh version of Superman?

Like, I feel like he did such a better job at this one.

Yeah.

And I mean, as an actor, maybe he could do the.

That one, but I just.

I don't think I wouldn't.

I I can't really picture it as much.

Yeah, same.

No, I, I.

That again, that movie.

Brian Singer directed it.

He tried hard to balance that.

Happy go lucky Superman with a little bit of darkness.

Like the scene where Kevin Spacey comes back as Lex Luthor and the dog is eating the other dog.

Like.

Yeah, random like that.

To try to add some.

Some darkness to it.

But I just totally did not.

Superman Returns might be my least favorite.

Superman.

It felt like.

It felt like a chick flick with Superman.

It was like a romantic movie.

Yeah.

Like Superman made by Lifetime.

Like, it's legitimately.

Yeah.

Good thing he made his.

Good thing he made his bones here.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ben Affleck was originally going to direct this.

Yeah.

Zack Snyder, before he directed this.

Ben Affleck was given the chance to direct this.

So that's before he was actually cast as Batman and B versus.

Yeah.

He turned it down because he had never made a movie with so many visual effects shots.

That's fair.

That's what he said.

Because he had done fair.

But he was riding hot off of Argo 1 Best Picture.

Yeah.

But that's a very organic movie that movies like, probably got very limited vfx.

Can you imagine if he was directing and he had to at one point come to Henry Cavill, like, so I get what you're going through.

Back when we did Daredevil, that is known as one of the worst superhero movies.

I watched it for the first time a couple years ago.

Definitely not great, but nowhere near as bad as people said it was.

Yeah.

Like, it had some solid moments.

Which ones?

Daredevil.

Daredevil with Ben Affleck.

Yeah.

And Jennifer Garner as Elektra.

It was fine.

Yeah, it was, you know, it was fun.

It was.

I think sometimes you watch, sometimes the superhero movies are just meant to be fun and exciting.

And if you too hard, you're like, well, my brain starts hurting.

Yeah.

And it was being compared to the Spider man movies and the Blade movies and the X Men movies at the time.

So, I mean.

Yeah, it definitely didn't live up to any of those, but it was.

It was all right.

And that was a transition period.

Like, you know, like the superhero genre was changing.

Yeah.

Rapidly.

Yeah.

And Electro was very formative in my early years.

I haven't watched that in a long time.

Yeah.

I probably won't ever watch it again.

Yeah.

I was about to say it's not worth a rewatch, but it was fun the one time.

Sure.

The first cut of this was three and a half hours long.

So the runtime is 143 minutes.

But originally this was going to be like the other ones.

It was going to be a lot longer hours.

I'm not surprised.

I, you know, I, I, it's, I both, I love seeing the extra content of these movies, but I also feel like releasing the extra version at times is a bit lazy.

Like, I mean, again, so here's, People say that with Snyder a lot, especially after the Rebel Moon movies have come out and with Zack Snyder's Justice League, here is what happens, okay?

He goes and he, he gives the studio the script and he's like, this is the movie I want to make.

And they're like, cool.

Then he goes and makes that movie.

And then the studio comes in and they're like, hey, you got to not make that movie.

You've got to make this version of that movie.

And then it almost.

Other than man of Steel, I don't know what an extended cut of man of Steel would look like.

And I don't even know if it would be any good.

Yeah, there's probably a reason he's never released an extended cut.

That being said, with both BVs and with his version of Justice League and both versions of, or both parts of Rebel Moon, his version, which his definitive version is usually the extended cut is significantly better than what the studio makes him put out.

So I don't think it's lazy.

I think he's literally bowing to the overlords at the studios, doing what they're telling him to do.

They realize it's not great.

He's like, well, let's try my version out.

And then everyone loves it more.

Right?

So I don't think that's his fault.

He just gets fucked into making a shorter movie than he wants to.

And then they're like, oh, we'll put all that stuff back.

And then they're like, ah, okay, this was actually a good.

And then they get to make twice as much money for releasing the same movie.

It's probably just footage of the horny Kryptons making.

Yeah, making UFOs.

Yeah.

Making sexually ambiguous UFOs.

That's all it is.

It's just an hour and a half of that.

Yeah.

Or maybe it's more of his, his first day at the Daily Planet at the end of the movie.

It's like shows him, you know, getting.

His first story and a 20 minute sex scene of Russell Crowe making, Making Clark.

Yeah, I forgot Russell Crowe was in that movie.

I love that he's in that movie.

I just, every time I see Him.

I think of Gladiator.

I just.

And every role, like, I feel like it's just Gladiator doing it.

Apparently whenever he goes to Italy, he's just treated like actual royalty there, because that's amazing.

It's so funny.

As well he should.

That's funny.

All I think about is the crow.

Only wicked prayer.

Only wicked prayer.

Henry Cavill said the most difficult scene to shoot was the shirtless scene coming out of the water before when he goes out and does the oil tanker.

Because he refused to do steroids.

Yeah.

Which is kind of disappointing because he looks really great without steroids.

I'm like, dear God, genetics rule you.

Nice jeans.

Nice for the rest of us if we learned he was on Sarah.

Yeah.

I kind of needed him to be on steroids for my own personal.

But he wouldn't take performance enhancing drugs.

But he also refused to let them touch him up with vfx.

Yeah.

So it was really difficult because he knew that they wanted him to look bigger.

They wanted to look more jacked, but he wouldn't do either.

So it was kind of.

There's a lot of tension, so.

Yeah.

And I think there was some insecurity about coming out in that scene out of the water, knowing that, like, probably they wanted him to look.

Yeah.

Well, he also refused to shave his chest.

Yep.

That was a big deal.

Yeah.

They wanted to shave his chest.

And he was like, no, Superman is Clark Kent, who is a human.

Why?

Why is he gonna look like a figurine of a superhero?

He's.

He's a man.

Let him have.

Yeah.

Hair in his chest.

Yeah.

Especially if he's hanging out with all the oil tanker guys out there and the fishermen and doesn't want to get made fun of.

Her being a, you know.