Did you know probiotics can do more than support gut health?

In this episode of Yappy Hour, host Nathan Dunleavy sits down with Jo Flanagan from Ingenious Probiotics to explore how probiotic-based pet care is transforming the way we look after our dogs. From soothing allergies and skin conditions to preventing ear infections and improving dental health, probiotics are a game-changer.

We dive into:

🐾 Why probiotics are essential for your dog’s skin, ears, and dental health

🐾 How they help reduce allergies, infections, and irritation

🐾 The connection between microbiome health and pet behaviour

🐾 Why probiotic cleaning products create a safer home environment

🐾 How probiotic care can reduce reliance on antibiotics

If you want to support your dog's health naturally, this episode is packed with expert insights you won’t want to miss!

Resources & Links:

🔗 Learn more about Ingenious Probiotics

🔗 Follow The Yappy Hour for more pet health tips

📩 Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a fellow pet parent, leave a review, and subscribe so you never miss an episode!

Welcome to the Yappy Hour powered by

Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers

2

who want to better understand and

care for their furry companions.

3

I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy and today

we're talking about a fascinating and fast

4

growing topic in pet care, probiotics.

5

My guest is Jo Flanagan, from

Ingenious Probiotics, a company that's

6

revolutionizing pet care with probiotic

based grooming and cleaning products.

7

We'll explore how probiotics work,

why they're a game changer for dogs

8

with allergies or skin issues, and

how switching to probiotic care

9

can benefit your dog's well being.

10

Whether you're curious about microbiome

health or looking for natural

11

alternatives to pet care, this episode

is packed with useful insights.

12

So grab a cup of tea, settle

in, and let's get started.

13

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Welcome back to the yappy hour.

14

your host Nathan Dunleavy and I'm so

excited to bring you our next episode

15

of the yappy hour Powered by Yappily.

16

really excited because we've got

someone on today that's going to be

17

talking about probiotics, which is a

growing topic in the pet care We've

18

got Joe from Ingenious Probiotics.

19

Hi, Joe

20

Joe Flanagan: Hiya, Nathan.

21

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Hello, welcome to the Yappy Hour.

22

So their focus is on natural probiotic

based pet care products that help

23

maintain a healthy microbiome, eco

friendly, plant based approach, and how

24

it benefits both pets and the environment.

25

So is something that we've not spoken

about before on the Yappy Hour, so

26

I'm really excited to sort of dig

in a little bit deeper and Find out

27

lots of information about it all.

28

And I've heard Joe's name branded

around on a few podcasts myself that

29

I've been listening to recently.

30

So it's great to have him with us.

31

Joe, welcome to the Yappy Hour.

32

It's great to have you here.

33

How are you?

34

How are you today?

35

Joe Flanagan: Yeah, great.

36

Nathan, thanks.

37

Thanks for having me on.

38

Today, today's been a really good day

actually, and my mum's in hospital,

39

but she's doing really well, likely

to come out tomorrow and we're all up.

40

So yeah, you got me in a particularly

good particularly good good day.

41

So you go from talking about, you know,

questions about dogs, ears, and skins to,

42

you know, quick, who's going to see mom?

43

Yay.

44

We're going, it's, it's, yeah,

it's, we're having a lot of fun.

45

It's good.

46

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

bit of a rota going on.

47

Joe Flanagan: Yes.

48

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: home

in Ireland at the moment, aren't you?

49

Joe Flanagan: Yeah, yeah,

50

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

you're with us all the way from Ireland.

51

That's great.

52

Joe Flanagan: yeah, yeah, it's, it's

it's great to be, ah, you know, it's

53

like when you go home and you kind of,

with your homies, as they say, and just

54

surrounded by all your familiar things

from your childhood, ah, it's just,

55

just great, yeah, I love it, yeah.

56

Good soul food.

57

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Well, I appreciate you taking the

58

time out then, you know, if you're

back home and your mum's been poor.

59

I do really appreciate you having some

60

Joe Flanagan: delighted.

61

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: this

62

Joe Flanagan: This is great, yeah.

63

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Jo, for

those who might, who might not be familiar

64

with Ingenious Probiotics, can you

share a little bit about how it started?

65

What inspired you to focus on

probiotic pet care, please?

66

Joe Flanagan: Yeah.

67

I mean, like, like everybody's

story, it can have a kind of higgledy

68

piggledy beginning, and then you

realize you're on a, you're on

69

a particular path kind of thing.

70

But the, the thing that got my

interest a bad 20 years ago, we

71

got involved with air quality.

72

We come from a a background of, of

temperature control and ventilation,

73

which, which led into CO2 control

and, and being aware of, of.

74

The air we breathe in and, and,

and that moved into being then more

75

involved in what we call health and

wellness in the built environment.

76

Now, the built environment is just being

inside something that somebody has built.

77

It's that simple.

78

It could be, it could be a car.

79

It could be a pub.

80

It could be your home, whatever

it's inside a building.

81

So there's various people who are.

82

responsible for what's going on in there.

83

You know that the plumber is is doing

your heating and the ventilation guy

84

is doing this and the electrician make

sure you got light and, and things like

85

natural light, ventilation, all these

kinds of became quite interesting to us

86

because at that stage I was realizing and

again, it's 20 years ago, realizing just

87

the impact this was having in health.

88

Overall, my area at the

time was to do with air.

89

So we became very aware of just how

much air people breathe and, and the

90

kilograms of air that people would

breathe way exceeds the kilograms

91

that they would eat in any given day.

92

So we all know the, the, the, the huge

importance of what you eat and you,

93

you, you are what you eat and whatever.

94

But if you're eating I don't know.

95

You know, I never measure what

I eat, but over here in Ireland,

96

it just seems to be cake.

97

But I know

98

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

99

Joe Flanagan: you know, you're,

you're breathing 10, 11, 12 kilograms.

100

Of air every day.

101

So you can, yeah.

102

So you think what,

103

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

thought of it like that.

104

Joe Flanagan: so everything you

breathe in, it's, it's going into

105

those nice little lungy poos that

we try to take care of, right?

106

You know, this, then take what's in the

air oxygen and put it into a bloodstream.

107

And, you know, there's a whole

science about what passes through

108

the barriers inside you and what

doesn't, we end up breathing in a

109

hell of a lot of not so very nice.

110

Stuff and we were involved in air

purification using catalytic converters

111

in in Ventilation systems and really

really interesting quite close to my heart

112

because I felt we were doing something

So doing something to help by taking out

113

chemicals taking out kind of particulates

and some biohazards and so on.

114

And then we started looking at what was

putting those chemicals into the air

115

we were breathing in the first place.

116

And this came about from some of the

rules and regulations around ventilation.

117

And you had to bring in so much

outside air into an office.

118

And then you think, well, hang on,

the outside air isn't that great.

119

And now we've got to,

it's my job to pump it in.

120

To your office in the middle of whatever

town you're living in, and it doesn't

121

have to be London, it can be, you know,

think of a, I don't know, Leamington

122

Spa, just pick, pick a town, you know,

pick a small town, it's, it doesn't

123

have to be some massive, massive, You

know, Glasgow or something, right?

124

So, that led us into looking at where

these chemicals and that we were breathing

125

in, where they're coming from and one

of the things that was, that made our

126

monitor spike was cleaning products.

127

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

128

Joe Flanagan: And at this

time, we were looking to reduce

129

people's use of air fresheners

130

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

131

Joe Flanagan: full of chemicals,

formaldehydes, all kinds of stuff, you

132

know, where people would use a scent, an

artificial scent to mask something else.

133

And we wanted people to stop

doing that because we knew it

134

was adding to the chemical load.

135

The chemical exposure.

136

So we found probiotics and initially Our

entry into this was using the probiotics

137

to, to remove the organic matter that

the bad bacteria were feeding on.

138

So the bad bacteria

were giving off smells.

139

The organic waste matter

was giving off smells.

140

And we could use probiotics

to get rid of both of those.

141

So instead of putting a chemical in

to make it give you that nine, that

142

nice I dunno, pine fresh or whatever

you want to call it, smell, right?

143

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Awful.

144

Joe Flanagan: Awful, you know

what we're talking about.

145

We could actually stop the smell

happening in the first place.

146

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Interesting.

147

Joe Flanagan: in a very natural

way with no chemicals and so on.

148

And at the same time, bearing

in mind, I'm looking at the air

149

quality where people breathe in.

150

So stopping those odors, that's good.

151

That makes people feel better.

152

Stopping the use of the chemicals

people are using to mask those.

153

Hey, that, that was the goal.

154

But also the way the probiotics

work is that the organic

155

matter that they're eating.

156

For some people that represents bio

allergens, you know, allergen triggers.

157

So people with hay fever and so on,

we're removing some of the bio allergens,

158

the, the the organic waste matter.

159

So it was just a win, win, win.

160

And then we found out that the

same technology was available

161

for cleaning products.

162

So now we could stop the harsh

chemicals in the cleaning products.

163

Going in to the environment and

that led us down one one road and

164

then we found I'm still answering

question number one, by the way

165

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

It's so interesting.

166

Joe Flanagan: oh man talk to

talk about you know, the next

167

shiny thing and you okay.

168

So now we can put these

probiotics On an animal.

169

What?

170

Get out of town.

171

What are you talking about?

172

Let's look at this now.

173

Whoa, stop the, stop the lights.

174

And we're finding now that,

175

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: door.

176

Joe Flanagan: shut, shut your front door.

177

So stop the lights, bunny, as

we used to say back over here.

178

So there's Irish people of a certain

age who just got that reference, but so

179

we could do the same process, which was

remove the organic matter, out compete

180

the bad bacteria that we're causing.

181

The problem and stick a pin

on, on that, the problem.

182

Let's talk about what the problem was

in early days that we were talking

183

about malodor, bad smell creation.

184

So that was a problem we were fixing.

185

So outcompeting the bad bacteria to

cause the problem in the first place,

186

we're placing them with a bacteria

that doesn't cause the problem.

187

And this is what we ended

up putting probiotics down.

188

That's how we ended up putting it onto

dog's skin for atopic dermatitis and

189

into dog's ears and into dog's teeth.

190

Cat's teeth in particular and

horses, cuts on horses hooves

191

and past in care and, and so on.

192

So, I think that answers the

first question, but that's how

193

we ended up Nathan, in, in doing.

194

Doing what we're doing

and, and we've taken that,

195

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

196

Yeah.

197

Joe Flanagan: The next line.

198

But chemical reduction, pharmaceutical,

pharmaceutical use reduction and I say

199

chemical reduction, I mean exposure to

harsh chemicals reduction antimicrobial

200

resistance and improving of health

whilst we're reducing all those things.

201

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

202

Joe Flanagan: know, that's what

gets us out of bed in the morning.

203

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Very interesting.

204

Brilliant.

205

Thank you.

206

So probiotics are often

associated with gut health.

207

But your, your products

focus on external care too.

208

Can you just explain the science behind

how probiotics work in pet care, please?

209

Joe Flanagan: The word probiotic is

coined by the World Health Organization.

210

And it just means a microorganism has

a, has a benefit to the host, right?

211

And that could be anything.

212

So people have become aware of the

importance of the gut microbiome.

213

They're becoming aware of the brain

microbiome and so on, but the gut

214

microbiome and the necessity of bacteria

and the role they play and how they.

215

how they feed us, how they break,

help break food down and feed us, how

216

to create certain vitamins, even the

role of certain bacteria in combating

217

or competing against other bacteria.

218

Within the digestive system and has some

bacteria are necessary maybe in one part

219

of the digestive system, but can cause a

problem if they get into some other part.

220

Okay, and how some bacteria,

for example the one I love

221

in particular has had a gut.

222

The gut lining is very thin and it's

got a mucus membrane there that's

223

protecting it and it will recognize.

224

Some friendly bacteria that, that it knows

that their very presence helps keep away

225

some of the bad bacteria that it, it wants

to be there because of doing another job,

226

but doesn't want them too close to the, to

the lining where it can cause a problem.

227

And all of this is going on in

a finely balanced environment.

228

Now, if you cut to the outside, it's,

it's similar, but different in that the.

229

The good bacteria, unlike the gut,

they're not necessarily performing

230

functions, you know, they're not

producing vitamins and so on quite,

231

quite so much as a bit more research

going on to that, but what they are

232

doing is outcompeting the bad bacteria.

233

And this is, this is the, this

is the theme that runs through

234

everything using good, the good

the good bacteria to outcompete

235

the bad bacteria, just that simple.

236

And.

237

If I can explain this, I think when

we talk about ears, ears are a great

238

way of, of, of just explaining it, but

239

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

240

Joe Flanagan: one of my, one of my vet

friends was at a talk at the vet show

241

last year, and he was saying how the,

the laboratory that were given to talk

242

was saying, Hey, look, here's the list

of the bad, the bad, sorry, here's

243

the list of the bad, here's the list

of the bacteria, leave out the word

244

bad, here's the list of the bacteria

that we're finding in the swabs.

245

Of infected ears that you send to us.

246

You vets send to us the lab.

247

Right?

248

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

249

Joe Flanagan: here's a list of B bacteria

we find in uninfected ears, healthy ears

250

that you, the vet send the swabs to us.

251

The laboratory and the

list was nearly identical.

252

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

well, I, okay, that's interesting.

253

Joe Flanagan: Yeah.

254

And of course this was,

this was great for us.

255

'cause the, the vet was saying this and

I'm, and I'm saying, yeah, of course

256

this is what we talk about all the time.

257

It's the balance.

258

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mmm.

259

Joe Flanagan: Now you can have

a little bit of staphylococcus

260

and most of us do on our skin.

261

But we don't have a staph infection.

262

What's that all about?

263

Because we've grown up being thought

that if you've got, you know, bacteria,

264

you've got to kill bacteria, that

person's got a bacterial infection.

265

He's got a bacteria.

266

Oh my God.

267

How did he get bacteria?

268

Well, you know, every single life form on

the planet has its origins in bacteria.

269

That's where life started, right?

270

So, and you're going back

three and a half billion years.

271

So, you and me, we're grown male adults.

272

We've got maybe, depending on what

reports you read, let's say 30 trillion.

273

microorganisms on us and in us and

kind of like a little halo around us.

274

Okay.

275

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, wow.

276

Joe Flanagan: Yeah.

277

And, and, you know, so for germaphobes

switch off now, this is the, this is the

278

light, this is the, this is the thing.

279

And there's, you know, your gut is a good

example where you need those bacteria.

280

How long would you last

without any bacteria?

281

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

282

Joe Flanagan: And, and it's a really

good question and there's animals and

283

insects and all kinds of life forms in the

world that can't exist, certain insects

284

can't get past the larvae stage if they

don't get fed the feces from the mother

285

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

286

Joe Flanagan: of the microbiome that

they need then to, you know, it has to

287

be passed on and passed on and so on.

288

So on the skin, back to the original

question, on the skin, here we are

289

covered in, in the, in this microbiome.

290

But the same is true for everything

you can see, your windowsill, the

291

microphone you're using, the laptop,

you name it, if your eyes can land

292

upon it, it is covered in a microbiome.

293

Yeah, and, and that's just, that's just

it, but what's important is the balance.

294

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

295

Joe Flanagan: Little bit of

Salmonella, nobody's going to know.

296

Your immune system is

going to take care of that.

297

Thank you very much.

298

A lot of Salmonella, now you're sick.

299

So, it's the balance.

300

So, what we do is,

301

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

life's about balance.

302

Joe Flanagan: well,

you're absolutely right.

303

For life balance, the brand

branding is, is a French word.

304

It doesn't mean anything in English, but

in French it stands for, for life balance.

305

Pro Vilan.

306

For life balance.

307

So.

308

Yeah, and it's a nice environment.

309

It's a nice way to approach it as well.

310

Instead of trying to kill off bacteria,

you're using a pro, pro approach.

311

So here we go.

312

We're taught to get rid of bacteria.

313

We thought that bacteria kills.

314

And then we find out, oh, hang on.

315

We're very, very dependent on bacteria.

316

And certain bacteria doing

certain jobs and so on.

317

And on the skin, we're

covered with the stuff.

318

So what happens when we kill it off?

319

What happens when we clean the

floor of the toilet with some

320

heavily antibacterial thing?

321

You know?

322

So we say to people, ask

yourself the question.

323

What happens next?

324

You're going to use an

antibacterial shampoo.

325

You're going to put something

antibacterial in your dogs.

326

Ear.

327

Maybe the vet has told you to do it.

328

Maybe you're following advice.

329

We're not saying here and now, we don't

know your dog, don't know the situation.

330

We're not saying don't do that.

331

But people will use an antibacterial

and manufacturers will proudly

332

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Silence.

333

Joe Flanagan: Great, let me swallow a

tube of that a year into my gut, which

334

is heavily dependent upon bacteria.

335

Okay, what about this cleaning

product we're going to spray around?

336

Yeah, let me breathe some of

that in, into my body, which is

337

heavily dependent upon bacteria.

338

And let's just see what happens.

339

So you, you, let's take the, the

the cat or the dog and you're

340

exposing it to antibacteria.

341

You're wiping out the microbiome.

342

The question is what happens next?

343

So Mother Nature.

344

We learned in school, mother nature

abhors a vacuum, if there's nothing

345

there, she's gonna put stuff there.

346

That's just it, right?

347

So, don't like vacuums, ain't having it.

348

So, good old mother nature, and with

this, with, with, With out competing good

349

bacteria, out competing bad bacteria.

350

Again, she's got three and a half

billion years experience with this,

351

so she knows what she's doing.

352

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

she knows her stuff and

353

Joe Flanagan: just lean our shoulder

into her wheel, rather than go completely

354

against her, which is the easier sell.

355

Right?

356

Let's be honest.

357

Do you pick things up from the

shelf in the supermarket because

358

it says the word antibacterial?

359

I'm going to use this antibacterial spray,

let's say, to clean my kitchen worktop.

360

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: then it

361

Joe Flanagan: What happened?

362

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: 99.

363

9 percent or something,

364

Joe Flanagan: Yeah, because, it

says 99 because they're legally not

365

allowed to say 100 percent right?

366

Because of

367

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I didn't know

368

Joe Flanagan: yeah, yeah, they

used to say it used to say,

369

kills all known germs, dead.

370

And this leads us into germs.

371

People think bacteria are germs.

372

Okay.

373

Well how about We say a pathogenic

bacteria is a germ, bad bacteria,

374

bad bacteria to cause a problem.

375

Yeah, they're germs.

376

Okay.

377

So what percentage of the

bacteria then are germs in,

378

in that way of looking at it?

379

What percentage would you, would

you, would you categorize as germs?

380

And the figure is significantly below 1%,

381

significantly.

382

So, okay.

383

So 0.

384

01 percent of bacteria is bad.

385

Well, let's kill all the others.

386

And proudly.

387

Use it as a marketing slogan.

388

Let's kill all the rest.

389

And again, the question

is, what happens next?

390

So, well, Mother Nature is going

to cover that surface in bacteria.

391

So you clean your kitchen table or

your kitchen floor or your dog's

392

skin with something antibacterial.

393

How long is it going to

stay free from bacteria?

394

And that's going to vary

depending on a number of things.

395

But we're counting in minutes.

396

We're not counting in hours.

397

So, when, when you're talking to cleaning

crews and you say, look, you've, you've

398

cleaned, let's say the kitchen in

this house that you've been cleaning

399

with antibacterial cleaner products.

400

By the time you're lifting your boot

lid to put your stuff back in your

401

van, it's covered in bacteria again.

402

Except this time you don't know

what bacteria it's covered in.

403

So that's the question we say, you're

going to wipe out the microbiome.

404

What is going to happen next?

405

And for most people to say,

look, we never thought of that.

406

What, what does happen next?

407

At which point I jump in and tell

them, you know, obviously, so cause,

408

cause we love talking about it.

409

So there's a couple, I don't know, we, we,

we got some things to go through Nathan

410

and I'm, I'm, and I'm wondering, but

this, this is all, this is all connected.

411

So you're going to wipe

out that microbiome.

412

What is going to replace it

might be something fairly benign.

413

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

414

Joe Flanagan: That's super.

415

So it's replaced with something benign.

416

Do you think it's going to

be any different than the.

417

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

418

Joe Flanagan: and bits of food,

you've got to clean them away.

419

Of course, you've got to

clean, remove physical dirt.

420

But how about we do it instead of

killing all the bacteria, how about we

421

do it, but we leave good bacteria there.

422

to act as a shield.

423

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, I like that.

424

Joe Flanagan: Okay.

425

So now when Mr.

426

Salmonella or Mrs.

427

E.

428

coli parachutes into your kitchen

table, they don't have a free run.

429

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No,

430

Joe Flanagan: so now you've got this,

this, this armed guard of, of all

431

these army of probiotics, they're

offering, offering a resistance.

432

And it's a little bit like

433

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

picturing, I'm picturing it now.

434

Joe Flanagan: Yeah.

435

Yeah.

436

So it's a lovely.

437

So I use a sports analogy, you know

and I have to be really careful

438

because I start using, using a

sports analogy and go, where am I?

439

So I talk about Arsenal and Spurs.

440

Hmm.

441

Better not.

442

What about them darker?

443

No.

444

What about Ireland and

England in the rugby?

445

No, let's, let's see if it defines it.

446

Let's say there's team a

and team B and let's say.

447

Yeah, it's safe.

448

All right.

449

Let's say team A have got 15 of the

best rugby players in the world.

450

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

451

Joe Flanagan: have a

thousand rugby players.

452

Who's going to win?

453

Well, the 15 other guys

are just going to give up.

454

They can't move.

455

They haven't got the room.

456

They've got no sustenance.

457

They can't do any of the job

and they just kind of fade away.

458

So that's how the probiotics work

from our point of view, that they

459

just offer a competition so that the

bad bacteria don't have a chance.

460

The room and the food

that they need to thrive.

461

So if you imagine that level and

I'm holding my we're not on video.

462

I'll be Nathan, but I'm holding my

my hands up level and one hand goes

463

way up and one hand goes way down.

464

So we're going to affect that balance,

but lots of good bacteria on, and

465

remember what I said about the, the

ear results, you may have the same

466

list of bacteria in the good year and

the bad year, but in the bad year,

467

you've got a lot of, let's call it.

468

Drop the caucus or something, right?

469

There's the number of past it.

470

So we put lots of the good ones in and

they just outcompete the bad ones But at

471

the same time if you take the dog skin

analogy or the kitchen table analogy the

472

probiotics How are they outcompeting?

473

Well, we know that even dead probiotics

will will do this They'll outcompete

474

that fit they physically offer

difficulties for the pathogens to operate.

475

But what about the live ones?

476

Well the live ones will, will open up

out of their shell because they're in

477

spore form and that's really important.

478

So inside the bottle they're, they're

hibernated, for want of a better word.

479

You spray them out onto, onto

your dog's skin or, or the mirror

480

in your bathroom or whatever.

481

Now they've got organic matter,

which is food, so they wake up,

482

they've got oxygen and so on, and

they start eating organic matter.

483

So On your dog's skin, on your kitchen

table, they're getting into the nooks

484

and crannies and they're eating those

dead skin cells and those molecules

485

of fecal matter or dust mite poop

or whatever, or whatever your dog

486

rolled in and badger poo or whatever.

487

And on the kitchen table,

488

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: one.

489

Joe Flanagan: fox poo for the kitchen

table, badger poo for the dog's skin.

490

Yeah, but you know what I mean, those

molecules of, of, of nasty stuff.

491

And they'll keep doing that for a

couple of days, maybe three days.

492

So now they're removing those, those

organic Bio allergens taking rid of food

493

for the pathogens and offering a whole.

494

Now you go back to your microbiome.

495

So now your microbiome looks different.

496

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

497

Joe Flanagan: when we're

doing a presentation, I show

498

a slide from a dentistry.

499

We have a pre COVID slide

and a during COVID slide.

500

Now the big difference between

pre COVID and during COVID

501

was the frequency of cleaning.

502

Because at that stage, people

still believe you could get COVID

503

from the surface, which you can't.

504

You can find COVID on the

surface, but you couldn't actually

505

contract COVID from the surface.

506

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Silence.

507

Joe Flanagan: represented in a bar

graph, you've got quite a diverse

508

microbiome, lots of different colors

in this bar graph, as you can imagine.

509

In the during COVID one, where

you have the increased cleaning,

510

you have a shorter bar graph, so

there's less bacteria overall.

511

But within that bar graph, you have, I

measured it out at something like two and

512

a half to three times more streptococcus.

513

So you have two and a half to three times

more of one of the pathogens that's going

514

to cause you a problem in your, if you've

got your jaw open and you're, you're,

515

you're, Tooth extract and now you're

exposed to something going in there.

516

This is one of the ones you don't want.

517

So you have this counterintuitive

situation where the more you clean with

518

antibacterial chemicals not only are you

exposing yourself to chemicals we'll come

519

onto that in a bit but you're actually

finding yourself in a less hygienic

520

Some of these clever little bad

bacteria can become resistant

521

to what you're cleaning.

522

Especially those are what we call quats.

523

They will become resistant

to the cleaning chemical.

524

So they're getting stronger.

525

And you're killing off their competition.

526

So you have this thing

where you're creating it.

527

That's called Antimicrobial Resistance.

528

And I know the word you were

using was Antibiotic Resilience.

529

But being resistant to antibiotics.

530

Well, there's two things cause

Antimicrobial Resistance.

531

Or you might see it written as AMR.

532

One is the overuse or misuse.

533

And sometimes.

534

Maybe a clinician doesn't have any other

option, but the overuse and misuse of

535

antibiotics people know about that, but

cleaning products It's the same thing

536

We're using antibacterial cleaning

products and the pathogens become a bit

537

resistant to it and it's the resistant

pathogens that survive so basically

538

the stronger versions of those those

pathogens they're the ones that survive

539

and Replicate and you imagine this over

generation of pathogen generation of

540

generation you get you you're training

and if you like breeding stronger bugs

541

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

542

Joe Flanagan: To the point

where, in certain situations,

543

this is, this is an issue.

544

You know, you read stories of C.

545

difficile, which was only ever associated

with hospitals, is now seen in the home.

546

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

547

Joe Flanagan: In London,

548

And this professor was saying,

look, we can see a correlation

549

between those parts of the hospital.

550

that are cleaned more and

the rise of superbugs.

551

So what we should be washing our

hands with is soap and yoghurt.

552

So this is before probiotic hand

soap was thought about, if you like.

553

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

554

Joe Flanagan: it's the same premise.

555

If you're going to wipe

out the microbiome, quick.

556

Before something else

replaces it, we take control.

557

We have microbiome in the bottle.

558

And that's what we put on the surfaces,

whether it's the washing of the hands,

559

washing of the, the, the pet teeth,

ears, kitchen floor, it's the same.

560

So we leave that microbiome

intact in a healthy state.

561

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right.

562

Joe Flanagan: So that's I don't

know if we've answered the

563

question at all, Nathan, have we?

564

Does that work?

565

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's absolutely fine, a roundabout

566

way we sort of got there and used

some analogies and so brilliant.

567

So thank you so much.

568

So we're going to move on to our

next section now, which is the

569

power of probiotics in pet care.

570

so how do the probiotics in pet

care differ from traditional

571

products on the market?

572

Joe Flanagan: So again, the big

thing is how do probiotics work?

573

And, you know, what we've been

talking there about is how

574

probiotics work in a general way.

575

And now what we're talking

about is a bit more specific.

576

How we apply that, that same

methodology, that same technology and

577

how we make it work in dental health,

how we make it work on hotspots and.

578

In ears, and we know the condition of the

ear, temperature and moisture, is going

579

to be different in the skin, is going to

be different in the teeth, and even with

580

the skin, we know that most people, when

you say to them, do you think that the

581

microbiome underneath your armpit is the

same as the microbiome on your wrist?

582

For example, they're going to go, no, it's

kind of smells a bit different, right?

583

So,

584

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

585

Joe Flanagan: so we have my, we

have probiotics that are good

586

for skin and, and, and different

ones that work better in the ear.

587

And so, and that's a lot of research

and development right there, getting

588

the right combination of probiotics.

589

So when we put them on the teeth,

590

most people are looking at teeth

as an issue when the problem

591

starts, when you're a human.

592

you start brushing your teeth

before the problem starts, right?

593

Okay,

594

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yes, yeah.

595

Yeah.

596

Joe Flanagan: got to go and take a

look, you know, then may not miss.

597

And I don't like that.

598

Yeah.

599

So my, my cat, I have to tell him I have

to sit down and, and because he's an Essex

600

cat, I have to have to say to him, you

know, Mate, you know this is good for you.

601

You don't want 11 more teeth

out like last time, do you?

602

So and he kind of looks at me with

the dagger eyes, but yeah, that's

603

spraying his mouth And he kind of

like, you know, you know He's fine.

604

He doesn't like me

605

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That

606

Joe Flanagan: it, but it's so yeah

We we couple of couple of sprays

607

either side of the mouth twice a day.

608

We start as a rule of thumb twice a day

So what what's happening there again?

609

It's the same thing.

610

It's replacing the the microbiome

With one that just that isn't great

611

with one that is much better now

plaque is Coming from bad bacteria.

612

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

613

Joe Flanagan: You might say

well, what are we feeding a dog

614

that the plaque can feed on?

615

That's a whole other question.

616

Okay, but even well fed dogs and good raw

meaty bones and so on can get get plaque

617

So the plaque is coming from bacteria.

618

So rather than trying to Remove

the plaque just do something that's

619

going to take the plaque away.

620

Hey look, okay.

621

Well, let's just reset the clock.

622

Shall we?

623

Because if it took a certain amount of

time for that plaque to get to that stage,

624

well by the time the clock rolls around

the same amount of time again, surely

625

you're going to be in the same position.

626

Which is what the probiotics do, is

they out compete the bacteria that are

627

causing the plaque in the first place.

628

So we turn the tap off, okay?

629

So that's how the difference, so instead

of, and we can use that application in,

630

I'll talk about ears in a second, because

that's even more dramatic with ears.

631

But with the plaque We I tend to liken

the plaque as the light on the dashboard

632

in your car, and we're not just fixing

the light, we're actually lifting the

633

bonnet, fixing what's causing the light,

634

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, having a look, yeah.

635

Joe Flanagan: Stopping it happening.

636

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

like, doing a diagnosis or something.

637

Joe Flanagan: That's right.

638

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

the body.

639

Joe Flanagan: That's right.

640

You, you got it.

641

And, and so we go, we, we, we ace the fire

extinguisher at the base of the flame.

642

We, we tackle the issue at

source, stop it happening.

643

So we turned that top off

for the production of plaque.

644

No plaque means you're

going to not get tartar.

645

You're going to be less likely to

get gingivitis, but not unlikely.

646

But of course, gingivitis

is coming from bad bacteria.

647

So guess what we're doing there.

648

We're just competing those bad bacteria.

649

And the gingivitis is really interesting

because now you're into low level

650

infection that's connected to the rest

of the body through the tiny little

651

blood capillaries into the main blood

system into the rest of the body.

652

Okay.

653

That's before you even get into

periodontal disease and so on.

654

Now, I'm not saying if you, if

you have a dog that's got raging

655

periodontal disease and major problem,

go to the vet, don't be spraying

656

probiotics, go to the, do not pass go.

657

Okay.

658

Okay.

659

Just.

660

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Don't collect your 200 quid, get to

661

the vet, you're going to need it there.

662

Joe Flanagan: Yeah, it won't do you,

it won't go very far, but you're going

663

to, yeah, so go, so go to the vet.

664

But but we're, we're, we're, we're, we're

changing that microbiome in the mouth.

665

Okay.

666

So plaque and tartar are just

the lights in the dashboard.

667

Gingivitis is the big deal.

668

So look out for that red line.

669

So that's a really good example in

answering your question, how do probiotic

670

based products work compared to a more

traditional based products, like I say,

671

instead of just cleaning off the plaque.

672

We're stopping what causes

the plaque in the first place.

673

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: getting

674

Joe Flanagan: Yes,

675

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You're

pre empting it almost, aren't you?

676

Joe Flanagan: you are, you are, and look,

no two cats are the same, no two dogs

677

are the same, no two humans are the same.

678

You could be doing the same, you

could have, you know, two dogs

679

from the same, the same litter,

and fed the same food, and one of

680

them's more plaque than the other.

681

And it's the same with using

probiotics, so you might find you

682

need to use a little bit more on one,

but still, you gotta keep an eye.

683

When you're spraying it on there,

keep an eye, and you only need to

684

lift the lips, you don't need to

make the dog go, say, ah, you know,

685

stick your tongue out and stuff.

686

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: just,

687

Joe Flanagan: Get it in,

688

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

to, just got

689

Joe Flanagan: yes,

690

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

go on there.

691

Joe Flanagan: get it inside your lips

and the saliva will move it around.

692

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

and then, right.

693

So with ears then, you mentioned

about coming, talking about ears, but

694

obviously a lot of dogs get all these

yeasty ear infections, don't they?

695

So that must be something

similar, like, you

696

Joe Flanagan: Yeah, I mean,

the ears differ from teeth in

697

our experience in one big area.

698

Teeth, it's a, it's a

bacterial issue, right?

699

That's it.

700

And, and bearing in mind, like I say, most

of our clients would be very aware of what

701

they feed the dog and, and, and so on.

702

And still dental is one of

our biggest selling products.

703

So with the ears, you've got to

look at it and say, Is it yeast?

704

Is it bacterial?

705

Is it both?

706

Is one causing the other?

707

Is it inflammation?

708

Is inflammation causing an infection?

709

Or is an infection

causing an inflammation?

710

So,

711

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

sufficient

712

Joe Flanagan: to the root

cause, yeah, there's a few

713

more things going on with ears.

714

So what, with ears, so what we do, if

someone says, can you help my dog's ear?

715

So, okay, is it both ears or one ear?

716

This is very much a rule

of thumb, Nathan, right?

717

So don't take this one to the bank.

718

If it's one year, chances are if it's

one year, it's going to be bacterial,

719

chances are if it's two years, it

could be bacterial, it could be yeast.

720

And if it's yeast, so again, the

microbiome has mites, viruses,

721

yeast, naturally occurring,

all in a balance, no problem.

722

Loads of bacteria, all in a

balance, everything's fine.

723

Maybe, maybe throughout your whole life.

724

But if something then knocks that

microbiome out of whack, and you can

725

get the naturally occurring yeast.

726

is kind of taken over.

727

It's not yeast.

728

This yeast isn't coming from the moon.

729

It's there already.

730

And something is affecting the microbiome.

731

So we'd say, okay, let's have a look.

732

What could be affecting the

microbiome of your dogs here?

733

Food possibly vaccines.

734

We'll talk about the environmental issues.

735

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

736

Joe Flanagan: in mind your dog

doesn't shower every day and change

737

clothes every day and he's lying

naked on the kitchen floor You know

738

and sweating, sweating there and

re wetting the chemicals and so on.

739

Anyway, more about that in a minute.

740

So in the year number one

741

If it's yeast, sometimes the

yeast needs to be removed first.

742

Now putting the probiotics in there is

not going to hurt But it may not help

743

the yeast if the yeast is established.

744

So we, we kind of take a backseat there

and say, look, when it comes to yeast,

745

we would say that we are a very important

second part of a two stage protocol.

746

Number one is finding is finding

a way to get rid of the yeast.

747

You may need to use something that

some people just changed diet and

748

it goes away and it rebalances

that brilliant, wonderful.

749

But if it's a situation where you're

needing to remove it, then you're

750

using something to remove the yeast.

751

And there's products out there.

752

One that always comes to mind

is Conobrady's propythium,

753

something like that.

754

It's natural, it's going

to remove the yeast.

755

Some people use other things to remove

the yeast that are a bit harsher.

756

But all of these things are going to,

they've got antibacterial properties.

757

So you're kind of in a situation where

you do a protocol in good faith to

758

remove yeast, you leave the microbiome

depleted in the ear, and remember

759

what he said about what happens next.

760

Then, what can happen is that you get a

different pathogen taking up residence

761

and colonizing the ear microbiome

and gaining ascendancy and cause, and

762

all of a sudden you've got a problem.

763

You think, hang on a minute.

764

I sorted the yeast and now it's

got, and all of a sudden you've

765

forgotten about the yeast and

now you've got a bacterial issue.

766

Maybe then you're wiping that out

with something and then a month

767

or two later, you've got another

issue, completely different bug.

768

And you're going, Hey, what

the hell, you know, oversteer,

769

understeer, and we got a problem.

770

And this is very expensive.

771

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

772

Joe Flanagan: with the

probiotics, we're going to do

773

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

774

Joe Flanagan: probiotics,

exactly what we've done on the

775

skin, on the kitchen floor.

776

Like we said, we're going to

outcompete the bad bacteria.

777

We're going to put a

defending army in there.

778

And what we noticed from, from studies

is that as the, the ear, let's say it's

779

a bacterial infection, as the evidence

of the bad bacteria decreases, so does

780

the evidence of the good bacteria.

781

Bacteria, because the job, the job is

being done, we're eating organic matter.

782

We're out competing the bad bacteria,

there's less organic matter, less

783

of the good bacteria are going

to come out of their spore form

784

and start doing, doing things.

785

So they can fade, they can fade away.

786

So with ears, you'd start putting

probiotics in a couple of times a

787

day and eventually you're getting to

the point where maybe you're doing

788

it a couple of times a week, maybe

even you're stopping it altogether.

789

Okay, and then the, the natural order

of things are going to slowly come back

790

into play in a nicely balanced way rather

than, and again, this is answering your

791

question about how they differ, right?

792

So rather than just wiping the

whole microbiome out, keep your

793

fingers crossed and let's go.

794

Now, when you wipe the microbiome out

with an antibacterial, it does the job.

795

Job's done.

796

It does what it says on the tin.

797

You can't say it doesn't.

798

But the question is, what happens next?

799

And, I've had a couple of times where I've

gone to somebody, or met somebody either

800

socially down here, or through, through

business, and they've said, Oh, we, we

801

know your product, we had a dog that was

about to have it's inner ear removed.

802

So, total ablation, removed

in ear because repeat ear

803

infection, repeat ear infection.

804

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: this.

805

Joe Flanagan: But we sent him

to, and they've named a vet,

806

who knows about the probiotics.

807

And not only does a dog not have to have

the surgery that's going to make a death

808

in one ear for the rest of its life.

809

But the repeat cycle of

ear infections is halted.

810

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's amazing.

811

Joe Flanagan: It's very, it's very

gratifying to get, you know, to have that

812

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: done

813

Joe Flanagan: fed back to you, you know.

814

And then when, when we went back to

that particular vet and he told us

815

stories of where a dog would present

with an ear infection, they'd use

816

antibiotics, infection would go away.

817

Brilliant.

818

Two weeks of antibiotics, two weeks

after the antibiotics finished, dog would

819

represent with an ear infection again.

820

They'd swab.

821

Send it off to the lab, you know,

try and get better antibiotics and

822

so on, and the dog would be okay.

823

And then a month later, the dog would

present with an ear infection, and

824

they'd swab again, and this time

they're finding that it's showing up.

825

It's a different infection.

826

It's not that the antibiotics didn't work.

827

It's that the antibiotics worked

really well, killed everything, and

828

the ears left open to recolonization.

829

So that's how traditional

products would work.

830

Whereas the probiotics work in the

other way I've just mentioned, which

831

is literally just leaning their

shoulder into the wheel of, of the

832

way mother nature does it and just

833

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

834

Joe Flanagan: put lots of

good bacteria in, in there.

835

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Perfect.

836

Thank you, Joe.

837

So many pet parents are focusing

on diets, but how important is

838

it maintaining a pet's external

microbiome for their overall health?

839

Joe Flanagan: Look, I'm going to say

it's really important and you, you

840

know, some, and somebody's going to

say, I used bleach all my life and

841

it never caused my dog a problem.

842

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

843

Joe Flanagan: Great.

844

You know, my grandfather

smoked till he was 90.

845

Great.

846

That's great.

847

Does that make smoking a good idea?

848

No, of course not.

849

So there's studies out there already.

850

You can find them that show that

dogs and cats are shown to have more

851

chemicals in their little bodies.

852

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

853

Joe Flanagan: So not just

higher proportions but more.

854

So they test their blood, they

test their urine, of the pet and

855

the owner, this is what they find.

856

And these are household chemicals.

857

Now, there's some household chemicals

that are quite difficult to get rid of.

858

You know, the thing that stops your sofa

bursting into flames, that chemical,

859

you know, bursting into flames, if you

happen to drop a cigarette, hopefully you

860

don't smoke, but you know what I mean.

861

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

As a doctor.

862

Joe Flanagan: yeah, me neither.

863

They're difficult to get rid of.

864

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

865

Joe Flanagan: can very easily take

that chemical based antibacterial

866

cleaning product out of your hands.

867

Put something else into your hands

and all of a sudden now you're going

868

for that lower hanging fruit and

it's easy to change the microbiome.

869

Now, if you can stop spraying

antibacterials around that

870

your dog is going to breathe

in and is there proof of this?

871

Yes, look, there's proof when it

comes to children, you know, child

872

obesity linked with household

chemicals affecting the gut microbiome.

873

And in some cases, it might only

be a small, a small element, but

874

let's give the dog every chance.

875

Let's remove the chemicals.

876

Okay, now you're going to have

less chemical exposure, less

877

chemicals, toxins inside it's blood

and urine, right, in it's body.

878

It's going to be breathing in less

antibacterial stuff going into it's gut.

879

Okay, when it licks, when

it licks something off the

880

floor, what's it licking off?

881

Now, we get people sometimes say, I use

a pet friendly cleaner, and we say, okay.

882

Does it say, keep the, keep

your pet out of the house for

883

half an hour after you clean?

884

Or does it say let your pet

in when the floor is dry.

885

Yes, okay.

886

So, what happens when your pet

sweats through their paws and re

887

wets whatever this substance is?

888

Or licks the floor?

889

Or just goes out for a wee at the

back on a wet day and comes back in?

890

We get sent sometimes not every day, thank

God, but we get sent sometimes pictures

891

of dog genitalia where, what looks like a

chemical burn, a very mild chemical burn.

892

So, when, when you look

at atopic dermatitis,

893

And there isn't a study to make this

connection, but when you look at

894

atopic dermatitis, you're usually

looking at the underarms, the belly,

895

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

896

Yeah.

897

Joe Flanagan: that microbiome

of the skin, then you're open

898

to certain, certain issues.

899

And there's already studies from

a university over in South Korea

900

that was really interesting.

901

Direct link between indoor pollution.

902

and canine atopic dermatitis, where

the pollution, indoor pollution was

903

affecting the skin at, at cellular

level and causing, causing irritation.

904

So how important is it that your

dog is in a healthy microbiome?

905

It's very important, you know, when,

when you look at dogs out in the country

906

there's certain studies out there

They would say dogs in the country

907

have a have a a slightly better time

of it You know, they have different

908

microbiome as long as that the farmer

hasn't been spraying something nasty

909

Then they're they're exposed that they

have a just a healthier microbiome when

910

they go out for a walk and and so so we

say It's really important For the gut in

911

terms of a support thing, if your dog's

got a really bad gut issue, switching

912

your products to clean clean products

to probiotics or your, your shampoo

913

to probiotics isn't going to help him.

914

It's a supporting thing.

915

Okay.

916

But what will help is skin.

917

Also think about ears.

918

The ears are just an

extension of, of of the skin.

919

The microbiome is important.

920

It's there whether you like it or not.

921

Stop trying to kill it because it's

bigger than we are, you know, literally,

922

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I

think you should with regards to the

923

next question, you, you've spoken

about the, the dog with the ear, but

924

if you could share an example of a

pet that has benefited significantly

925

from switching to probiotic care.

926

So would that be the

dog that managed to keep

927

Joe Flanagan: Yeah.

928

Yeah.

929

I mean, I mean those dogs multiples

I mean, they're, they're striking,

930

you know and we talk about those.

931

We, we don't say, you know, we're

very careful to try and under

932

promise and over deliver, but, but

those examples are, are out there.

933

Skin is probably more of an obvious one.

934

Where we, we, we've got case

studies where just spraying the

935

probiotics directly onto the skin.

936

Has, has really helped with a, a, you

know, dermatitis kind of situation.

937

This whole, itchy dog.

938

And I'm kind of doing air quotes here.

939

Because, it's, it's, it's crazy.

940

You know, the amount of dogs

out there with itchy skin.

941

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

942

Joe Flanagan: It might be food, it

might be stress, it could be anxiety.

943

It could be that they've got a,

I don't know, a flea infestation.

944

It could be lots of things.

945

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: sure.

946

Joe Flanagan: it can be

the chemicals in the house.

947

So

948

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Good.

949

Joe Flanagan: their chemical exposure

and reduce their exposure to things

950

that are designed specifically to

kill bacteria on skin, which is.

951

Reliant upon a good bacterial balance.

952

So, that's been great.

953

With the teeth as well, we see

a lot of good results on teeth.

954

And that's a different area

because with teeth you've got

955

to look after them all the time.

956

Don't wait until there's a problem.

957

It's a bit like we brush.

958

So we don't get problems.

959

We floss for the benefit of our heart,

so we don't get gingivitis and so on.

960

We did have one very striking issue

with a dog with a nasty, nasty anti

961

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Can

962

Joe Flanagan: the gums were

attacking it itself basically,

963

and any, any bad bacteria at all

964

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: me?

965

Joe Flanagan: kind of all lesions

and inflamed, nasty, and the only

966

way of treating that is to take

all the teeth out and then let the,

967

he, they let the gums heal over.

968

And although the, the dog recently

had had, did have to have after

969

10 months, so it was due to go in

to have all the teeth out on the

970

Tuesday, started using the probiotics.

971

The Saturday, what's that, three

days before, and got a stay of

972

execution, that was last February.

973

A year later, he did have to, he

did have a really bad flare up and

974

had to have a couple of teeth out.

975

But otherwise, he's still got all his

teeth and he's happy and he's not in pain.

976

You know, which is and he's got his teeth.

977

So yeah, we, we do have some striking

also for postoperative wound care.

978

If typically we get the vets saying

to the pet owners that the wound

979

has healed twice as quickly as they

would expect when they're using

980

the skin based probiotic spray.

981

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's amazing.

982

Joe Flanagan: That's kind of nice.

983

Number one, that you're not allowing,

you know, infections to get in there

984

to cause their kind of problem.

985

But number two, that the

dog is happier, quicker.

986

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

987

Yeah.

988

Sure.

989

Brilliant.

990

So moving on to probiotics in

common pet health issues, we've

991

sort of touched on a few things, but

many dogs obviously struggle with

992

allergies and skin sensitivities.

993

So how do probiotics sort of help and help

soothe and prevent prevent those issues?

994

Joe Flanagan: Well, I think

with, with skin there's

995

almost two questions going on.

996

Why is any irritation getting

through the protective skin barrier?

997

You know, we have the skin, biggest organ,

keeps the rain out, glad we have it.

998

And, and how do some dogs

get inflamed and itchy skin?

999

You know, why isn't the skin?

00:49:57,967 --> 00:49:58,917

So that's the whole thing.

00:49:59,818 --> 00:50:00,388

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, sure.

00:50:00,388 --> 00:50:06,173

Okay.

00:50:06,712 --> 00:50:08,472

Joe Flanagan: The problem

causing the irritation.

00:50:08,742 --> 00:50:09,942

And they might be a secondary thing.

00:50:09,942 --> 00:50:13,642

Something else has caused them to be

able to get into the skin where they

00:50:13,642 --> 00:50:16,722

shouldn't be, you know, and we all,

like I said, we have staphylococcus,

00:50:16,722 --> 00:50:20,492

which is fine on our, on our, on our

skin, but we don't want it if we get

00:50:20,492 --> 00:50:23,632

a deep cut, we don't want any, that's

too much of that stuff going in there.

00:50:24,972 --> 00:50:26,782

So you need to, you need to look at that.

00:50:26,782 --> 00:50:29,302

But what we do is we out compete the

bad bacteria causing the problems.

00:50:29,362 --> 00:50:32,362

And then in most cases, the

skin is able then just to.

00:50:33,092 --> 00:50:37,782

repair itself, you know, produce

the sebum and, and, and just, just

00:50:37,782 --> 00:50:39,872

repairs hotspots and things like that.

00:50:39,872 --> 00:50:43,402

But so that's where we really, really

have to, we put that protective coating,

00:50:43,402 --> 00:50:48,852

if you like, onto, onto the skin and,

and keep the bad the bad bacteria bay.

00:50:49,082 --> 00:50:53,062

And also onto the bedding, the same

00:50:53,093 --> 00:51:01,436

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Silence.

00:51:01,822 --> 00:51:04,252

Joe Flanagan: of, of good bacteria

that I could beat the bad and

00:51:04,262 --> 00:51:08,452

also to reduce those bio allergens

back to the dead skin and the dust

00:51:08,452 --> 00:51:10,352

mite poop and and, and, and so on.

00:51:10,532 --> 00:51:15,122

Okay, so we, we get, that's how we

work really well with with skin at the

00:51:15,122 --> 00:51:22,302

same time, if you're using something

harsh antibacterial or a very different

00:51:22,302 --> 00:51:27,462

pH than the dog's skin, you're

exposing the skin to something that's.

00:51:28,037 --> 00:51:29,177

That's going to cause it a problem.

00:51:29,957 --> 00:51:32,387

So again, we say, look, let's not do that.

00:51:32,457 --> 00:51:35,047

Let's take that bottle of

whatever you're using and replace

00:51:35,047 --> 00:51:36,577

it with a probiotic cleaner.

00:51:37,187 --> 00:51:39,157

So that's a dual, a dual approach.

00:51:39,477 --> 00:51:42,537

What goes directly onto the pet and

what goes into the pet environment.

00:51:43,533 --> 00:51:43,893

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:51:45,353 --> 00:51:48,833

So we know that antibiotic

overuses are growing concern.

00:51:49,203 --> 00:51:53,713

So how do probiotic products reduce

the need for antibiotics in pet care?

00:51:54,477 --> 00:51:58,157

Joe Flanagan: So this

is a really sensitive

00:51:58,853 --> 00:51:59,643

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, okay.

00:51:59,747 --> 00:52:00,767

Joe Flanagan: subject, right?

00:52:00,987 --> 00:52:04,027

Not for, not for us, because we're

like, we know, we know the answer.

00:52:04,907 --> 00:52:05,737

But you know,

00:52:05,903 --> 00:52:07,843

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

tread carefully.

00:52:07,877 --> 00:52:10,187

Joe Flanagan: say to people, look, if

you're listening to this, if you're

00:52:10,187 --> 00:52:11,717

at all worried, go to your vet.

00:52:12,452 --> 00:52:16,812

Right, go to your vet because there's

times where we can really, really help,

00:52:16,812 --> 00:52:18,122

but we don't want anybody taking a risk.

00:52:18,122 --> 00:52:22,212

Go to the vet if you're at all worried,

but the vets know through their own

00:52:22,212 --> 00:52:26,472

industry, not because of what we're

saying, although Nathan, I'd love

00:52:26,472 --> 00:52:29,082

it if it was because of what we're

saying, but you know, it's not, but

00:52:29,082 --> 00:52:33,752

let's let's be real, but their own

industry is saying you have to use.

00:52:34,242 --> 00:52:41,212

Less antibiotics, less autoimmune,

less immune suppressing drugs.

00:52:41,662 --> 00:52:44,482

That's a whole area,

immune suppressing drugs.

00:52:44,482 --> 00:52:47,072

Okay, let's, let's step onto

that landmine, shall we?

00:52:47,362 --> 00:52:52,242

If you can go back to that ear

scenario where my vet is telling me

00:52:52,242 --> 00:52:53,692

that this is what he was finding.

00:52:53,692 --> 00:52:58,052

He was using the antibiotics, they

were wiping out the the microbiome

00:52:58,342 --> 00:53:00,062

and he's having this repeated issue.

00:53:01,877 --> 00:53:05,467

And at the same time exposing that

dog to antibiotic after antibiotic.

00:53:06,597 --> 00:53:10,377

What you want to do is use

antibiotics when you really need them.

00:53:10,387 --> 00:53:12,687

Because when you really need them,

they're a godsend, aren't they?

00:53:12,917 --> 00:53:14,847

I mean, God, where would we be?

00:53:14,977 --> 00:53:19,917

How scary is it to think we could

become resistant to antibiotics?

00:53:19,917 --> 00:53:22,207

That's a scary world, you know?

00:53:22,393 --> 00:53:23,153

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

very scary.

00:53:25,127 --> 00:53:33,037

Joe Flanagan: The antimicrobial resistance

predates the invention of antibiotics.

00:53:33,733 --> 00:53:34,233

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:53:34,277 --> 00:53:37,707

Joe Flanagan: Remember, this comes from

chemicals being used, as far back as

00:53:37,707 --> 00:53:40,197

the Victorian era, they can trace this.

00:53:40,407 --> 00:53:46,527

So, if we can treat at least a

minor, and again, playing it safe in

00:53:46,527 --> 00:53:50,307

answering your question, let's just

talk about minor issues, where the

00:53:50,307 --> 00:53:52,197

animal then doesn't need an antibiotic.

00:53:53,083 --> 00:53:53,393

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

00:53:53,947 --> 00:53:56,767

Joe Flanagan: Let's treat the

environment, where the environment is

00:53:56,767 --> 00:54:01,287

much more healthy, because we're not

creating stronger bugs, so that when

00:54:01,847 --> 00:54:03,797

the dog has a, or the cat has a cut,

00:54:03,798 --> 00:54:08,335

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:54:08,427 --> 00:54:11,367

Joe Flanagan: stuff, let's say, or so

the less chance of them getting root.

00:54:11,597 --> 00:54:16,447

So again, let's aim the fire

extinguisher at the base of the flame

00:54:16,497 --> 00:54:18,977

and try and reduce the amount of

times that they get a bad infection.

00:54:19,317 --> 00:54:24,147

Let's see where we can use probiotics

instead of antibiotics, skin, ear

00:54:24,147 --> 00:54:26,772

issues teeth, preventing those.

00:54:27,232 --> 00:54:29,612

You know, let's not get

up to periodontal disease.

00:54:29,612 --> 00:54:32,282

Let's use probiotics way

before we get to that point.

00:54:33,413 --> 00:54:33,503

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Well,

00:54:33,562 --> 00:54:33,872

Joe Flanagan: So

00:54:33,993 --> 00:54:35,023

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

prevention is better than

00:54:35,023 --> 00:54:35,913

the cure, don't they?

00:54:36,262 --> 00:54:37,632

Joe Flanagan: stitching time saves nine.

00:54:37,722 --> 00:54:38,412

Absolutely.

00:54:38,652 --> 00:54:42,562

So if we can, if we can reduce the

amount of times that antibiotics is

00:54:42,562 --> 00:54:46,752

needed, then there's less antibiotics,

antibiotics going to get used.

00:54:47,112 --> 00:54:51,692

And remember you're at the

level here where investigators

00:54:51,712 --> 00:54:52,752

can go into the sewers.

00:54:53,207 --> 00:54:57,897

Of a city, and they can talk

about the antimicrobial resistance

00:54:57,897 --> 00:55:00,497

level of that city based on

what they find in the sewers.

00:55:01,227 --> 00:55:07,497

You know, this stuff is in the

environment, the level of other

00:55:07,497 --> 00:55:14,207

drugs that gets given to animals and

humans that ends up in our waterways.

00:55:15,133 --> 00:55:15,583

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:55:15,827 --> 00:55:17,427

Joe Flanagan: And antibiotics

are part of that, okay?

00:55:17,737 --> 00:55:22,517

So, there was a report in the Irish

Times, it was actually about two years

00:55:22,517 --> 00:55:25,937

ago, describing the rivers being,

and the word they used was awash.

00:55:26,297 --> 00:55:28,397

The rivers are awash with antibiotics.

00:55:28,647 --> 00:55:31,177

Now you might say, well my dog's

not peeing directly into the toilet.

00:55:31,512 --> 00:55:34,552

Like I am, and it's my anti bacterial,

sure, but you get what I mean, there's

00:55:34,552 --> 00:55:39,882

a build up, build up, and Mother

Nature is just going to climb over

00:55:39,882 --> 00:55:42,212

that wall and just make stronger bugs.

00:55:42,452 --> 00:55:46,202

It's no problem to Mother Nature,

we're just a blip on the landscape

00:55:46,202 --> 00:55:46,992

as far as she's concerned.

00:55:47,162 --> 00:55:51,482

So, that's how we help antimicrobial

resistance, because we out compete

00:55:51,482 --> 00:55:53,982

the bad bacteria instead of trying

to kill them with something that

00:55:53,982 --> 00:55:55,152

they can become resistant to.

00:55:55,152 --> 00:55:56,262

When we

00:55:56,303 --> 00:55:56,613

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

00:55:56,742 --> 00:56:00,332

Joe Flanagan: out compete them, they

cannot get resist to starvation.

00:56:01,117 --> 00:56:05,347

We out compete them, we consume

their food sources, and bugs

00:56:05,347 --> 00:56:07,697

can't get resistant to that.

00:56:08,853 --> 00:56:09,043

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Good.

00:56:09,207 --> 00:56:12,937

Joe Flanagan: worth knowing, when

a bug becomes resistant, when it

00:56:12,937 --> 00:56:16,547

develops that resistance ability,

it can pass it to its mates.

00:56:16,877 --> 00:56:22,127

It's a bit like sharing a a

game on a, on a memory stick.

00:56:22,127 --> 00:56:24,197

I'm not a gamer, but I can

imagine, and then all your mates

00:56:24,197 --> 00:56:25,207

have it on their laptop, right?

00:56:25,497 --> 00:56:25,847

So

00:56:25,923 --> 00:56:26,183

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: God.

00:56:26,407 --> 00:56:30,567

Joe Flanagan: they share, once the

bugs get this resistant genes, they

00:56:30,567 --> 00:56:31,967

want their mates to have it as well.

00:56:32,687 --> 00:56:34,757

So all of a sudden resistance

can happen really quickly.

00:56:34,777 --> 00:56:37,487

So yeah, just stop using

antibacterial stuff.

00:56:38,297 --> 00:56:39,217

Use probiotics.

00:56:40,612 --> 00:56:43,992

Where you can, if you're really,

really worried, if you're worried

00:56:43,992 --> 00:56:45,422

at all, go, go to your vet.

00:56:45,772 --> 00:56:51,202

Your vet is likely to use an antibiotic

unless you're a holistic vet, in which

00:56:51,212 --> 00:56:54,932

case they'll be more inclined to try and

avoid using antibiotics for good reason.

00:56:56,073 --> 00:56:56,593

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

00:56:56,933 --> 00:57:01,833

So we're going to move on to the link

between microbiome health and behaviour.

00:57:02,283 --> 00:57:07,743

How can using probiotic cleaning

products help create a calmer, less

00:57:07,743 --> 00:57:10,123

stressful home environment for pets?

00:57:10,362 --> 00:57:10,622

Joe Flanagan: Sure.

00:57:10,632 --> 00:57:13,572

And again, this is, this is where

we are in a supportive role.

00:57:13,652 --> 00:57:17,422

You know, it's not going to be, you

take, you take the maddest Tyrannosaurus

00:57:17,442 --> 00:57:20,152

Rex pup and spray some cleaner on it.

00:57:20,152 --> 00:57:21,592

And all of a sudden it's, you know.

00:57:22,127 --> 00:57:23,857

It's calm and tiptoeing, you know.

00:57:27,247 --> 00:57:28,367

Think of Blue Smarties.

00:57:28,387 --> 00:57:30,807

You know, if you, if you have a

bunch of Blue Smarties and Coca

00:57:30,807 --> 00:57:34,367

Cola not long before you go to

bed, you, you, you know, yeah.

00:57:34,737 --> 00:57:38,167

It's, yeah, it's just,

okay, you want to train me?

00:57:38,687 --> 00:57:39,397

Go ahead and try.

00:57:39,597 --> 00:57:41,187

I'm full of Blue Smarties and Coca Cola.

00:57:41,557 --> 00:57:49,282

So if we can just reduce chemical

exposure and the microbiome is connected

00:57:49,282 --> 00:57:50,992

with all kinds of things in humans.

00:57:51,392 --> 00:57:53,372

Depression, Alzheimer's.

00:57:53,902 --> 00:57:54,262

Okay.

00:57:54,582 --> 00:57:57,972

And if it's, if it works in

one mammal, it's going to be

00:57:57,972 --> 00:57:59,552

very similar in another mammal.

00:57:59,902 --> 00:58:06,692

So let's not mess up that delicate

microbiome of the gut that's, that's

00:58:06,702 --> 00:58:09,592

connecting all these things, you know,

it's messed up enough with, with,

00:58:09,622 --> 00:58:12,952

with the kind of the food we eat.

00:58:13,962 --> 00:58:16,492

You know, over here in Ireland, I

think, I think we, we, we subsist,

00:58:16,522 --> 00:58:18,042

we subsist on potatoes and cake.

00:58:18,442 --> 00:58:21,912

It's just been mad, mad amount of cake.

00:58:22,102 --> 00:58:22,552

So death,

00:58:24,343 --> 00:58:25,323

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Death by cake.

00:58:25,482 --> 00:58:26,522

Joe Flanagan: death by cake.

00:58:26,526 --> 00:58:28,933

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: you, no,

00:58:29,142 --> 00:58:29,452

Joe Flanagan: Thanks.

00:58:30,412 --> 00:58:30,712

There you go.

00:58:30,842 --> 00:58:31,012

Thanks.

00:58:32,172 --> 00:58:33,892

So, that's I'm, I'm very lucky.

00:58:33,952 --> 00:58:34,722

Sorry about the interruption there.

00:58:34,722 --> 00:58:35,852

I'm very lucky to be home.

00:58:35,942 --> 00:58:38,142

And my dad's got my dad has dementia.

00:58:38,222 --> 00:58:43,832

And he's the most sweetest, wonderful

human that you could ever wish to meet.

00:58:43,832 --> 00:58:44,412

He's wonderful.

00:58:45,242 --> 00:58:45,562

So he's

00:58:45,683 --> 00:58:46,383

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

oh, that's,

00:58:46,672 --> 00:58:49,082

Joe Flanagan: just come into the room

checking on me and aren't I lucky?

00:58:49,382 --> 00:58:50,392

Aren't I a lucky man, huh?

00:58:51,073 --> 00:58:52,313

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that's really lovely.

00:58:52,732 --> 00:58:55,172

Joe Flanagan: So where were we?

00:58:55,212 --> 00:58:56,262

Did I answer the question?

00:58:56,262 --> 00:58:56,872

I have no idea.

00:58:56,952 --> 00:58:57,682

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's okay.

00:58:57,682 --> 00:59:01,582

So we'll just we'll go on to the next

one in terms of behaviour So we know

00:59:01,582 --> 00:59:04,112

that healthy gut can influence behaviour.

00:59:04,452 --> 00:59:08,142

How do your products contribute

to this microbiome balance?

00:59:08,281 --> 00:59:12,991

Joe Flanagan: so the main thing

we do is we don't mess it up.

00:59:13,611 --> 00:59:15,781

We're not an antibacterial.

00:59:16,021 --> 00:59:22,271

Remember antibacterial products

connected with very asthmas, COPDs

00:59:22,571 --> 00:59:24,871

fertility issues in, in humans.

00:59:24,941 --> 00:59:26,631

Child obesity I mentioned earlier.

00:59:26,981 --> 00:59:28,481

So we're none of that.

00:59:30,121 --> 00:59:30,451

Okay.

00:59:30,481 --> 00:59:31,921

So that's the number one thing.

00:59:32,291 --> 00:59:35,671

We're not adding to the microbiome

of the gut, we're simply not

00:59:36,501 --> 00:59:40,161

doing anything negative to it, and

there's enough of that around, okay?

00:59:40,348 --> 00:59:44,152

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right

00:59:44,161 --> 00:59:45,461

Joe Flanagan: just not

having those chemicals.

00:59:45,461 --> 00:59:48,951

Remember, the dog is absorbing,

dogs and cats, dogs especially,

00:59:48,951 --> 00:59:50,361

they're sweating through their paws.

00:59:50,786 --> 00:59:53,596

I'm walking across the floor with

whatever you've cleaned that with