Divorce and finances can feel overwhelming, confusing, and scary—but they don’t have to. In this episode, we break down divorce and finances, how to overcome fear, and how to build financial confidence after divorce. If you’re navigating divorce and finances, this conversation will help you feel more empowered, informed, and in control of your future.

In this episode, Lesa sits down with financial advisor and Certified Transition Specialist Kathleen Judge to talk about one of the biggest fears women face during divorce—finances. Together, they explore how your relationship with money is shaped, why so many women feel disconnected from financial decisions, and how to rebuild confidence step by step.

You’ll learn the three phases of financial transition, how to avoid costly mistakes, and how to align your finances with what truly matters most in your life. Whether you’re going through a divorce, preparing for one, or simply want to feel more confident with your money, this episode is for you.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction to divorce and financial fear

(03:45) Kathleen’s personal story and career transition

(08:20) Why women feel disconnected from finances

(12:10) Financial triage: what to do first in divorce

(18:30) The messy middle: emotions and decision-making

(24:15) Common financial mistakes to avoid

(28:40) Understanding assets, debt, and beneficiaries

(34:10) Aligning money with your values

(40:05) Creating a vision for your financial future

(45:20) Final thoughts and how to get support

Key Takeaways:

1. Financial fear during divorce is normal—and can be overcome with clarity and support
2. Avoid major financial decisions in the first 3–6 months (financial triage phase)
3. Understanding your assets, debts, and cash flow creates immediate empowerment
4. Your financial decisions should align with your personal values and life goals
5. Working with a financial advisor can prevent costly mistakes and provide peace of mind

Guest Bio:

Kathleen Judge is a financial advisor with Edward Jones and a Certified Transition Specialist. She specializes in helping individuals navigate major life transitions such as divorce, widowhood, and retirement. Kathleen is passionate about empowering women to understand their finances, build confidence, and create a secure financial future.

Resource Links:

1. Kathleen Judge (Edward Jones):
2. Doing Divorce Different Podcast
3. Lesa Koski Coaching & Mediation Services

Tags/Keywords:

divorce and finances, divorce financial planning, women and money, financial empowerment for women, divorce recovery, financial advisor divorce, budgeting after divorce, divorce coaching, midlife divorce, financial confidence, money mindset, women over 40 finances, divorce mediation, financial independence, life after divorce

Welcome listeners.

2

I'm so glad you're here today.

3

We have the lovely Kathleen, judge with

with us, and she's been here before, but

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when Kathleen was here before, I didn't

delve into the financial information

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as much as we're going to today.

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So here's the thing.

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My divorcing clients who come to me for

either coaching or divorce mediation

8

or one of my courses, their number one

concern is always kids, if they have

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children, and then tied real close.

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Um, a second to that is their finances.

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And finances can be so scary,

and this podcast is here to

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help people feel less afraid.

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And that's why Kathleen is.

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The perfect person to be here

talking about this because

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she's a financial advisor.

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She's worked with me because there's

other transitions besides divorce.

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There's becoming a widow.

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There's like even retirement

transitions when you're hubby retire.

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You know, there's just all

kinds of transitions in life.

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So I.

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Fully think of Kathleen as a partner

and my journey to help clients.

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And so I'm really excited because

she's here today and she is a certified

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transition specialist, and I don't

even think I've ever interviewed.

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Anyone who is that and a

financial advisor on this podcast.

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So, Kathleen, welcome and

thanks so much for being here.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much,

Lisa, for that warm welcome.

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It is always such a pleasure to work

with you and, um, talk with you.

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And I so respect the work that you're

doing on the podcast to help people

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through these really challenging

times where, um, you feel alone,

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you feel isolated, and you feel.

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Terrified.

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And so I, I so respect and appreciate

the work that you do to, to bring

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women together, bring people together

to, um, help and support one another.

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Speaker: Ah, you're so sweet.

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I appreciate that.

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Well, and would you mind sharing,

because you are one of those

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guests that I love because you went

through something a little hard.

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Yeah, it kind of led you to do this.

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We just talked about that for a little bit

before we jump into more opinion details.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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So I, um, I'll, um, I'll give

you the abridged version.

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I started my career in the nineties and,

uh, we adopted our children from Ukraine.

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And I had wanted to just take a step

back from my career for, um, just a

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couple of years or even a year just to.

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You know, bond with the kids

and, and get that all started.

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And it ended up, um, when I stepped

away, we also owned a construction

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company and so I had always helped

run the construction company.

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So I just did more of that and.

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Um, as, as, as it turned out,

both kids had pretty significant

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learning disabilities and I

ended up homeschooling them.

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I much, to my surprise,

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Speaker: yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I, I literally,

the worst that came outta my

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mouth when my husband suggested

it were, I am no more meant to.

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To fly to the moon than

I am meant to homeschool.

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I am a professional and I work, and,

uh, you know, how, how things work out.

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How do you, how do you make God laugh?

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You tell him your plans.

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Speaker: Amen.

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And I, I remember telling you about

this before because I too had a little

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moment in there where I homeschooled for

a bit and I thought I was really good.

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I mean, I think I got her

ahead and she was like.

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No child should be

homeschooled by you, mom.

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So that wasn't my gift,

but I do like, I do.

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That's terrible.

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Yeah.

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I do give you so much credit

because you, you jumped in.

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There was need.

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I have a really good friend who was

like, oh man, I don't wanna do this.

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I don't wanna do this at all.

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I mean, I don't even know if I learn well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker: And she just felt a calling

on her heart, uhhuh from God to it.

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So,

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Speaker 2: and that's what happens.

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And, and let me tell you, it

kept me on my knees every day.

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Speaker: I believe it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I ended up doing that, took 12 years

out of my career and, um, and then.

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Uh, very, I very, I was

very caught off guard.

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Um, we divorced, my husband and I

divorced, and I did not see it coming.

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It was very unexpected, and

suddenly, here I am in my forties.

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12 years out of the workforce and I

need to support myself and my children.

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And I had not, um, I had always

been good with finances, right?

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Like even in college, I actually

graduated college with a savings account.

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Like I, I could save and spend

really well, but the way our

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marriage worked was my husband made

all the decisions and I didn't.

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Realize the power that I was giving

up in, um, uh, in allowing that.

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And of course now I look back and I

see it, but, um, we, our finances were.

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Um, essentially when he, when when

he left, um, I was starting over.

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I was starting from scratch and I had

never been comfortable with that part of

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our life, but I didn't have a say in it.

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So I'm a huge advocate of helping women.

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Even if you don't like the topic,

just, um, attend the meetings, meet

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your financial advisor, ask questions.

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Don't let anybody, don't let

anyone make you feel, um, silly

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or uneducated because it is.

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Important to just know where you

stand and where the basics are.

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So

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Speaker: Well, and I just, I have to

jump in and speak to that a little

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bit because, um, even married women

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker: I feel like I want you to listen.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker: Pay attention because I'm edu

I'm an attorney for goodness sakes.

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I'm very educated and yet.

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I didn't feel it with the finances.

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I didn't feel a part of it.

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I felt afraid.

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I have felt afraid.

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Mm-hmm.

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For so long, even, you know what I mean?

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And I think it's time Yeah.

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For us to overcome that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker: And to, you know, be able

to, and it's, it's hard, Kathleen,

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because I don't wanna think about it.

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Right.

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I don't, I would rather

not think about a budget.

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I'd rather just live.

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And you know, it's like

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Speaker 2: I do,

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I do, yes.

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It's hard.

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And I counsel so many clients.

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I, I counsel clients who come to

me either after a divorce or after

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being widowed who know nothing,

and they're talk about terrified.

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That's even, you know,

that's a whole new level of.

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Being terrified as well as

clients that are married.

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And I always invite the

women into the conversation.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it always starts out where

they say, oh, this isn't my thing.

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I let him do it.

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You know, I don't even understand

what you're talking about.

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And my approach is just That's okay.

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You if you have a question, ask and.

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We will talk about it

until you understand it.

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And I, and I, and I promise everybody

it, within a year you're gonna feel more

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comfortable and then within two years

you're gonna feel more comfortable.

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And, and, and it really, em empowers the,

the wife to feel much more part of the.

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Significant decisions 'cause financial

decisions are really what underpin your,

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the most important things in your life.

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Speaker: Right?

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Amen.

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Speaker 2: So,

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Speaker: and you know, the thing is,

if you are going through a divorce,

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now you have the opportunity to

decide exactly where you want your

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money to go, and it's a chance to

start to become more comfortable.

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Yeah.

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And to grow in it.

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And Kathleen, I am on a journey

to get comfy with this because I

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Speaker 2: love it.

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I love it.

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Good

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Speaker: for you.

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Well, I need that.

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I need that help.

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And, and I know that, I know I'm

not in the same exact predicament

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as someone who's going through a

divorce, but together, let's just

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start changing how, like, let's make

this so that it's a fun, happy thing

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker: To look at instead of

feeling, I feel like so much

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of the time we're feeling.

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So much scarcity.

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Speaker 2: How

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Speaker: do you change that?

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I, you know, that's the mindset that,

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Speaker 2: right?

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It is.

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And you know, it's, um, surprising.

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Those everyone has, the way that

they have a relationship with money.

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Everybody has a unique relationship

with money and usually those, those

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are rooted in how you grew up.

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And how you saw your parents handle

money and how did they invite you in

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and teach you about their business?

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About how to, how to save and how to

spend and how to invest, or were you

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just not a part of that conversation?

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: And those early experiences

really shape how we feel in adulthood.

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So, uh, I think that's a really important.

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Piece to just think through

and start to understand.

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And then I always say, I've done

so much research around women and

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um, and, and their finances and.

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Uh, there's all sorts of research

that supports this, but, and it just

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makes me so excited because when you

connect a woman to the people and

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the things that are most important to

her financially, then you just see.

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Tremendous change, and sometimes

it's change within your family.

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Sometimes it's change within your

neighborhood, you know, and, and

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depending on where your footprint

is, it, it, it goes out from there.

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And so I, I do believe that.

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Connecting a woman to those things that

are most important to her financially.

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Uplifts, um, uplifts.

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Our uplifts.

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All of us.

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Speaker: I, I so agree.

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And so now I kind of wanna go

to, so you know, someone who's

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listening to this, maybe they're

just starting the divorce process.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker: And I have noticed.

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In my own work when I worked

together, doing a mediation with

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a couple, um, whichever party.

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Not always the wife, whoever is

not taking care of the finances.

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'cause there's usually

one person who is right?

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker: There is so much fear.

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Well, there's fear usually in both of 'em.

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There's so scared.

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Mm-hmm.

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Every, you know, isn't that, don't

you wish you could get rid of that?

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Speaker 2: Oh

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Speaker: boy.

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Stupid boy with emotion.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker: So there's so much

fear, but I always tell them.

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You know, I give them

their budget worksheet.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I say, and then I say, now write down

all your assets that you have, you know,

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and start looking at what debt you have.

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And once you start seeing it

and get a little clarity on it.

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It often brings a little comfort.

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Now that doesn't mean it's not

a little uncomfortable, but we

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have to be uncomfortable to grow.

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I love that.

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I'm gonna remember that in my head as I'm

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Speaker 2: going through

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Speaker: my own little

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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I love that.

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And, um, you know, as a transition

specialist and a financial

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advisor, um, the process.

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From either divorce or widowhood from

when it starts until you're comfortable

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with a new normal is a long time usually.

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And the framework that I use to

help people walk through that, uh,

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the first, believe it or not, the

first three to six months, what my

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mission is, is to slow you down.

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Because your, you know,

emotions are so high.

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There's a lot of anger, there's a lot of

confusion, there's a lot of self doubt.

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And, and the biggest risk during that

time is making the wrong decisions that

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are, that are, that you can't take back.

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And so.

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I try to slow people way down.

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Don't sell the house, don't

keep the house, don't, just

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don't make major decisions.

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And that's sort of the, the transition

phase is called financial triage, where.

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We make sure that there is

cashflow available and that you

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have access to that cashflow.

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Make sure that bills continue to get

paid and to what you were saying, um,

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just listing out what all your assets

are, what all your liabilities are, and

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how they're titled is, uh, is it's a.

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It feels daunting, but of

course there's help for that.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, you know, we, we help women

with that, or we help divorcees or,

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um, widows with that all the time.

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Um, but it's, it's taking those, those

steps, those kind of, they feel small,

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but they're actually huge, huge steps.

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And the goal is to, um, to

really help people feel.

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Like they're moving

towards a secure future.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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That hope, right?

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Speaker 2: That hope.

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Yes.

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Speaker: Yes.

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And I like what you're saying because

that's one thing I've learned.

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I'm a life coach along with an attorney.

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I did that and I, and I really love it.

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But one thing, and I always was

able to do this self-coaching, get

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my mindset right, until something

really big and devastating happens.

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And you can't.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker: And then I say you stay

in this stage kind of of stillness.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker: You just are surviving and

you're kind of moving your body.

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Yeah.

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And you're just taking care

of yourself as best you can.

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And that sounds like that.

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Period to you, which is probably

why my husband said, don't buy a

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cabin right now the day I retire.

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Like they say you should wait.

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Right?

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So, but they, but, but it's true.

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And that's the thing that's so hard.

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Like in the heat of the moment in a

divorce, radiation, I want people to

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jump up and down and shake their hands or

whatever you can do because it's too much

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to try to get in and do the mind work.

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It is, but you have to think.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker: You have to think.

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So I like how you're saying this

transition and then I thought, when do

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you generally start working with people

who are going through, like say a divorce?

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Is it after they've worked with

someone like me, or is it during or.

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Speaker 2: It's during, it's during, I,

I, I like to put together a team mm-hmm.

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And to help people quarterback that team.

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Yep.

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So that it takes a, an administrative

burden off of their plate.

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Mm-hmm.

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And they can focus more on

what's immediately before them.

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And on healing and on, um, on

the, you know, on the divorce.

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Uh, settlement and agreement and, and that

first, that, you know, those first 90 days

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is really creating a, a space of safety.

301

Mm-hmm.

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And, um, and security.

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Speaker: I love that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and, and then, you know,

like you said, you move into this period.

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It's actually the second

part of the transition.

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My terminology is the messy middle.

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Where

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Speaker: Yeah,

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Speaker 2: where you know the divorce

is likely over and you just feel

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like you've been through the ringer.

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And you have been through the ringer,

and that messy middle looks different

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for everybody, but it's really difficult.

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And again, the focus is on, okay, taking

all of these emotions, the sadness, the

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regret, the again, confusion and fear.

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And you know, those align with pretty

complex deci financial decisions.

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And so that's where I'm.

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There to help, um, help move them

along and move them towards something

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that they're, that they really are

looking toward and not looking back at.

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Speaker: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Um,

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Speaker: again, hope.

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Speaker 2: Hope Yes.

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Moving forward.

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Okay.

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Absolutely.

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And you know, in that messy

middle, I, there are some

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personality types that jump.

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They wanna just immediately by

the cabin or they want to Yeah.

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Immediately, you know, move back

home or whatever that looks like.

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And then there people who just get

stuck and they, they're paralyzed

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and they, they can't make a change

and they can't make a decision.

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And, uh, you know, that's

a really tough place to be.

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And I, I get it.

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I've, I've been there.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Okay.

337

So those are the, the first two steps

in the, so just to restate, the first

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one is kinda safety and security.

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Speaker 2: Uhhuh Financial

triage is what I call it.

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Speaker: Okay.

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Speaker 2: But, but the, the

end goal is safety and security.

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Speaker: All right.

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And then you're in the messy middle.

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And you're, you're working

to help them start seeing how

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they're going to move forward?

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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And as what, and from a financial

standpoint, we're getting their

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new financial picture in order.

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Speaker: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Because it's, it's

gonna change significantly.

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Speaker: Tell me a little bit about that.

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So new budgets,

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Speaker 2: new so well, so

it's really new everything.

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Absolutely.

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A new budget.

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Uh, whether you have full custody of

the kids, whether you have no kids,

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whether you have part-time custody

of the kids, all of those things.

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Are decisions that need to be made?

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Do we still send the

kids to private school?

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Do we do we continue with

the expensive dance lessons?

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And all of those decisions have to be

made, and then you have to really dig in

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and understand, okay, how much do I have?

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Where is it located and how is it titled?

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Is it titled now?

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Just in my name?

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Is it titled in The name of a Trust?

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Um, do have, I changed all of my

beneficiaries on my life insurance

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policies and, and other types of, uh,

you know, life insurance strategies and.

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Um, and

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Speaker: really, lemme ask

you a question, Kathleen.

371

Yeah, yeah.

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Just for people who are listening.

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So if you have a couple that's married

and they get divorced and they forget

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to change the beneficiary on their

life insurance and they pass away

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and their spouse is named mm-hmm.

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Does their spouse get it?

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Speaker 2: The expo gets it.

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Speaker: That's what I mean.

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Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah,

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Speaker: yeah.

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Speaker 2: So

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Speaker: it's important stuff.

384

Speaker 2: It is so important.

385

And actually we, we do that

in the, in the early days.

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Yeah.

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Very early days.

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That's one of the first things

that we do is review beneficiaries.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Um, because I've, I've

had horror stories of clients

391

that just didn't change and Yeah.

392

And their, their new families, um, did

not get a, a penny of the life insurance.

393

Um,

394

Speaker: that's hard.

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Speaker 2: It's hard because that's a,

that, that is, um, an administrative task.

396

It's a financial task and it's

something that someone like

397

me, uh, can help 'em with.

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Speaker: Yep.

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And

400

Speaker 2: it's, that's where

you, it's not hard for me to do.

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Speaker: Right.

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That's where you save money by

spending a little on somebody.

403

Speaker 2: Exactly.

404

Speaker: Okay.

405

Yeah.

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So what comes after that Messy middle.

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Speaker 2: So after the messy middle,

when the fog starts to clear a little

408

bit, it's um, what we call future sensing.

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Speaker: Right.

410

Speaker 2: And so it's really, um, taking.

411

Um, and a, and again, this phase,

believe it or not, can be just as scary

412

for people as the first two phases.

413

Some people, it's, it's not, it's a

little more energizing, but for some

414

people it's really scary to envision

themselves in a completely different way.

415

So your whole life, you've been a spouse

to your partner your whole life, your.

416

Church group has known you as a

married couple your whole life.

417

The, your, your friend groups have

known you as a married couple.

418

Mm-hmm.

419

And so suddenly you're navigating this

new, brand new, uh, landscape that.

420

Some people, again, feel energized

by and can come up with a, a, a

421

million, million ideas of what

they'd like that to look like.

422

But most people are, um, are

hesitant and, and fearful.

423

And so that phase is really about, again.

424

I don't rush anyone through any of these

phases because it has to be at your

425

pace and what you're comfortable with.

426

But, but really looking

at, okay, what do we want?

427

What do I want to do and

how do I afford that?

428

So we start out by talking

about what are your key values?

429

You know, what are your life values?

430

Uh, um.

431

How do you wanna be remembered?

432

What are the things that are absolutely

the most important to you in your life?

433

And then we start to think about,

okay, so what does that look like?

434

If, if the most important things

in your life are, uh, your children

435

and your grandchildren, then let's,

let's put together a structure

436

where you can financially help

in some way, whether that's.

437

College or, you know, whatever

that looks like, gifting,

438

college, whatever that looks like.

439

Other people, um, other people want

their children and grandchildren

440

to, to, to pay their own way.

441

Mm-hmm.

442

And what's really important to

them is something very different.

443

And maybe it's living in a beach

house or having two, you know,

444

two different properties or Right.

445

Or multiple properties.

446

Or it could be right.

447

Taking up a new hobby,

going back to school.

448

Speaker: Right.

449

Speaker 2: You know, all of those

different options are available.

450

And so we think about

what does that look like?

451

You know, starting out at

that really high level mm-hmm.

452

What are my values and what are my

priorities and my goals, and then,

453

okay, what, what does that start to

look like from a practical perspective?

454

And then, okay, what can I

afford and how do I afford that?

455

Speaker: I'm taking notes 'cause

I'm trying to grab some things that

456

can help us change our mindsets.

457

Speaker 2: Yes.

458

Well, and, and the other thing I want

to, um, really, um, emphasize is I work

459

with the clients team of professionals.

460

So in that first phase, I would

work with you very closely.

461

The, the mediator or the divorce attorney.

462

Yeah.

463

Um, 'cause you've gotta know.

464

What's happening financially?

465

Uh, you know, I tell all my clients,

don't, don't move us a penny until you

466

talk to your, um, divorce attorney.

467

However, we need to make sure that

you've got cashflow and that it's

468

cashflow that only you have access to.

469

Um,

470

Speaker: well, and in speaking for

attorneys and mediators, when there is

471

a couple that has a financial advisor.

472

It's a beautiful thing.

473

It makes my job easier.

474

It's saving them money because

there's not any digging around.

475

It's just all there and it's clear and

it, and then you get a nice spreadsheet.

476

So for even like my clients who I have a

DIY, uh, do it yourself divorce course,

477

just in the state of Minnesota, even for

them, if they have a financial advisor,

478

that financial advisor can go in and

do the, actually do the spreadsheet.

479

Speaker 2: Oh, that's fantastic.

480

Speaker: I know, it's, it's

really, really helpful.

481

Speaker 2: Well, and if, especially if you

don't have a background in finance, you

482

can take a $5 million traditional IRA and

a $5 million Roth IRA and the value of.

483

Each of those, they, it

sounds like they're the same.

484

It is absolutely not the same.

485

'cause you've got a giant tax

burden with the traditional IRA

486

and virtually no tax burden.

487

Yes.

488

With the Roth ira.

489

And if you don't have someone advising

you about things like that and

490

there are lots of things like that.

491

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

492

Speaker 2: Then, um.

493

You know, it's, it's,

uh, it's a, it's a mist.

494

It's a miss.

495

Speaker: It is, and it, it also

helps you see what you can do.

496

Speaker 2: Yes.

497

Speaker: Yeah.

498

Which kind of is bringing me to,

you know, I told you I've been

499

working on this a long time.

500

I was thinking about

getting in a better mindset.

501

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

502

Speaker: And when you talked

about how your finances really.

503

Speak to what you value.

504

Yeah.

505

Kind of what you've a million on.

506

So this is an opportunity to

really look at what's important

507

to you, because I have learned,

isn't that what we wanna focus on?

508

Speaker 2: Yeah.

509

Speaker: Rather than like, I want

this and I want this and I want this.

510

Do you really?

511

Right?

512

Or does that look you tired?

513

Speaker 2: Yeah.

514

Speaker: Is it a lot of work?

515

Would you rather just do this

and it can, you can bring it

516

down so that you're focusing on

the thing that you really love.

517

Speaker 2: I love

518

Speaker: that.

519

And then there's no scarcity because

you actually have time for the

520

thing that you really love, which

might be something you already have.

521

Speaker 2: Uh, it does.

522

So true.

523

Lisa.

524

I had a client call me not too long

ago and say, okay, we're gonna buy,

525

we've got this great deal on this

condo in Florida and we wanna buy it.

526

And I, you know, I, I said, okay,

well, you can absolutely afford it.

527

However, and our previous conversations,

what you told me was most important to

528

you was spending time with your family

who live in the same place that you do.

529

So is buying a new property in a different

state, really what you value the most.

530

And they had not thought

about it like that.

531

And they came back a couple weeks

later and said, you know what?

532

We're just gonna rent.

533

We're just gonna rent for a

534

Speaker: couple weeks.

535

I love it.

536

Yes.

537

Every winter.

538

I love it, Kathleen, because we

came to the same conclusion because

539

we had always thought, well, we're

probably gonna be those people that

540

get a place somewhere down south.

541

And then I was like, I have grand babies.

542

Speaker 2: Yes.

543

Speaker: I don't wanna be like

gone the whole, a whole season.

544

Speaker 2: Right.

545

Speaker: But I could probably

do a month somewhere.

546

Speaker 2: Sure.

547

Speaker: Right.

548

You know, that was economical and

549

Speaker 2: Yeah.

550

Speaker: Then they get to

come and see me there too.

551

Right.

552

You know, you can work it out.

553

So I, yeah, I love that.

554

I, and you know what, for some

people who have a lot of friends

555

who are going to the same place

or whatever it is, it is worth it.

556

It's worth

557

Speaker 2: it.

558

Speaker: So it's kind, it's your

opportunity to really find out what's

559

important to you, because guess what?

560

Not everything is.

561

Speaker 2: That's right.

562

Yeah.

563

It's so true.

564

And, and what, what seems like, you

know, a, a, a flashy, um, you know,

565

a, a cool flashy thing that you wanna

jump after, if you just pause and

566

think about it for a moment and say.

567

And, and talk it over.

568

Yeah.

569

With your, with your team,

um, who advises you Yes.

570

With your advisory team.

571

Um, is that really aligned with where I

want my life to be and where I want my

572

life to go and how I wanna be remembered?

573

If it is great,

574

Speaker: right.

575

Speaker 2: If not, there's

something even better.

576

Speaker: Yep.

577

I love that.

578

And I'm not going to lie, I actually feel.

579

More empowered right now.

580

I feel I

581

Speaker 2: love it.

582

Speaker: I know I do just, I just feel

better just sitting here talking to

583

you, so that's why you're so great at

what you do, Kathleen, and I'm looking

584

at the time and I'm like, oops, I

told you 25 minutes and we went over.

585

Is there anything else that you wanna

add or how can people reach out to you?

586

I'll have your information in the

show notes, but, or you can even reach

587

out to me and I'll pass you along to

Kathleen, but how, how else can they.

588

Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.

589

Um, you can look at my website

with, uh, uh, I'm with Edward

590

Jones, Edward jones.com/kathleen,

591

judge.

592

Um, all my contact information

I know will be with you.

593

Mm-hmm.

594

Um, and yeah, please reach out and,

and I'm available for questions.

595

I'm available.

596

I'm happy to, to meet with people.

597

Actually, I, I tend to have several

meetings with people before we mm-hmm.

598

Decide to work together.

599

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

600

Speaker 2: So feel free to, to reach

out with questions and, uh, I'd be more

601

than happy to, to provide some insight.

602

Speaker: Awesome.

603

Awesome.

604

Well, thank you Kathleen.

605

Thank you so much.

606

It was so good to see you.

607

Speaker 2: Oh, so good

to see you too, Lisa.

608

Take care.

609

Speaker: See you soon.

610

Take care.

611

Okay.