Graham Betchart explores the profound impact of mental skills training on personal development and performance, emphasizing that true mastery lies not in avoiding mistakes but in embracing vulnerability and acceptance. With a background in sports psychology, Graham shares his journey from battling personal challenges to guiding elite athletes like Jaylen Brown and Aaron Gordon toward success. He highlights the importance of treating every experience as a training opportunity, advocating for a mindset that prioritizes presence and resilience over fear of failure. Through engaging anecdotes, he illustrates how competitive compassion can transform the way we approach our goals, both in sports and in life. This conversation invites listeners to rethink their definitions of success and encourages a deeper connection with themselves and others in an increasingly technological world.

Graham Betchart delves into the intricate world of mental skills coaching in elite sports, emphasizing the profound impact of mindset on performance. With over 25 years of experience, Betchart has worked with notable athletes in the NBA and NCAA, guiding them through the mental challenges they face on and off the court. He shares his journey of personal discovery, beginning with his struggles with anxiety and depression as a young athlete, which led him to seek help and ultimately explore the depths of sports psychology. This exploration has shaped his unique approach to coaching, where he teaches athletes to harness their mental strengths and face their fears head-on.

Betchart's philosophy centers around the concept of devotion— the commitment to daily practice and self-improvement. He encourages listeners to treat every day as an opportunity to engage with their goals, comparing the mental game to a physical workout where consistency is key. The conversation also touches on the importance of vulnerability in personal growth, as Betchart highlights the necessity of embracing discomfort to achieve true success. He draws parallels between athletic competition and life, illustrating how athletes can learn resilience and self-acceptance through their experiences on the court.

The episode culminates in Betchart's belief that the mental game is not just about winning championships but about unlocking one's potential. He proposes that through mindfulness, compassion, and awareness, individuals can cultivate a deeper understanding of themselves, ultimately leading to a more fulfilling life. This insightful discussion is a treasure trove for athletes and individuals alike who seek to elevate their mental game and navigate the complexities of modern life with a sense of agency and purpose.

Takeaways:

• Graham emphasizes the importance of devotion in achieving goals, suggesting that true success requires daily practice and persistence.
• He discusses how athletes face intense pressures that can accelerate their personal growth and development.
• The key to overcoming self-doubt is to practice self-acceptance and awareness in challenging moments.
• Graham highlights that results should not define self-worth, encouraging listeners to focus on the process instead.
• The mental game is an everyday practice that helps individuals navigate life's challenges and uncertainties.
• Ultimately, Graham believes that human connection and compassion are crucial for personal and professional growth.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Sacramento Kings
• Uconn Huskies
• Dream Team
• Train the Mind

You think this is hooey.

This is coming at you full speed like a Mack truck.

You're going to get decimated by stuff that's not even real.

You will follow illusionary thoughts like you will be gone.

In life, especially in the modern world, most of the stuff I'm teaching is addressing really, really deep stuff without them even knowing it.

I'm in the business of human development, you know, I'm in the business of helping humans unlock themselves, unleash themselves and become unlimited.

What's great about athletes is they face a certain amount of pressure that allows them to go through this rapidly.

And all I'm talking about is like self doubt and worry, comparing yourself to others and thinking you're a numerical assessment or something.

This is where the excitement is like, you know, if you have a thrill and you want to learn how to fight, you know, and you want to learn how to really compete, man, this is it.

This is like this frontier will satisfy you on the deepest levels as you go into the darkness and face your fears.

And it was just a fight against her own self.

All right, welcome to the Evolving Potential podcast.

This is episode number 23.

Today I have on the show Graham Bechart.

Graham is a mental skills coach who's renowned for his work in elite sports psychology and peak mindset training.

In his 25 years or so, he's worked with the NBA and NCAA, including the Sacramento Kings and the Yukon Huskies, privately with stars such as Aaron Gordon and Jalen Brown, as well as CEOs, sales team surgeons and whoever else.

He has a master's degree in sports psychology and has spent most of his life doing personal work and developing his passion for proactively teaching people mental skills.

Some of his accomplishments with those clients, Jalen Brown, includes signing the biggest contract in the NBA history, Aaron Gordon winning the NBA Finals with the Denver Nuggets, the Kings breaking the longest drought in the North American sports history, and the Yukon Huskies winning back to back national championships.

Graham is also a published author, accomplished speaker and independent recording artist and producer.

His work makes mental skills practical, relatable and dare I say, simple.

Not easy.

Simple enough even to teach kids before issues are developing.

I've personally learned a ton since doing research into Graham and it's been an absolute pleasure and honor to have him on the show.

So thank you for being here, Graham.

Man, it's my honor to be here.

Todd, man, thank you for having me.

I'm super humbled by all this and just like grateful to be a part man.

Thank you.

That's Dude, I like, I said honor to have you.

I.

I was telling you before we got on, he has some videos if you guys are interested.

Back in the day, even.

I think they're about five years old now, maybe.

But it was with his company at the time called Train the Mind, and they made really cool videos, really practical.

He was sitting with Aaron Gordon.

They were doing breath work.

He's talking about certain mental skills, and it just, like, really engaged me, and I was like, this guy knows what he's doing.

And it's been really cool to watch his growth over the past couple of years, both mentally and as a teacher, as well as physically with this giant beard he's got.

So I'm really happy to have him here.

Yeah, right on, man.

I mean, this.

This journey never stops.

We're just in it together, all of us, all human beings here.

We're just, you know, walking on our path together.

And, you know, the mental game, once you start to figure it out, it's an everyday practice.

So I'm just practicing and teaching the stuff that I was taught decades ago.

And what I'm good at is devoting myself to it.

And if you stick with something and you practice every day, it is pretty amazing what happens.

So anytime someone reads my resume, you know, I'm like, yep, that's real.

Like, that.

All that stuff is real.

But more impressive is my resume of loss, which is a hundred times longer and way more powerful.

And the reason you can say all those amazing things is because, actually, as you just go through the process of life, like, you're going to have all kinds of stuff that happens.

I just.

I never quit.

And so devotion is the thing that I think is important for people, Todd, because I've noticed people are in a hurry.

Or maybe you hear those results and you're like, oh, my God, like, I want to win a championship, or how do you know NBA?

And you're like, I always tell people walk to win with lethal patients.

You know, like, whatever you're doing right now, treat it as if.

However you think you'll act when you get to whatever level you want to go to.

Like, that's.

That energy is here today.

And I got that advice, and I just stuck with it and was like, I'm going to treat today like however I would treat.

However I would think I'd be in the NBA or something like that.

And then when you end up making it to the NBA, you just treat that like some regular day, you know what I mean?

And it kind of.

It kind of works.

Like that, like, treat an average person like a pro.

And once you start working with pros, just treat them like an average person.

You know, it's like most time we do the opposite of that.

And so I've just, like, the mental skills work.

This stuff is real.

It isn't fake.

It isn't even like a belief system for me, this is how it is.

It's just whether or not you want to do it or not.

And I just.

I'm just a good student, dude.

I'm just a dude who's like, hey, I got taught this stuff in the 90s.

I think that was a big.

I just was like, okay, I'll do it every day.

And then, you know, 20, whatever, 27 years later, you can read a resume like that.

But really, it's a testament to, like, mental skills, to devotion.

There's no overnight success.

You know what I mean?

Like, none of.

It's all just like, this stuff all real.

It's not magic.

It's not hooey.

It's not like some.

Oh, my God.

You're like, no, that's what's going to happen if you stick with something for a while.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Crazy results.

Dude.

So first of all, devotion is what's right there.

Hey there.

So I'm 100%.

I'm 100% with you.

Yeah, that's a word that I.

That's a word that I was happily committed, you know, to put on myself and have there my whole life, you know, it's just so important to me.

So I 100% resonate with that, you know, so what.

What were some of the things that you were first learning?

What were some of the.

Potentially the books or the things that maybe.

I don't know if you had a mentor at the time that was kind of, you know, showing you some of these things that were able to.

To turn it around.

And potentially what were you trying to overcome at that time as well?

You know, just.

I was playing at a junior college and just really anxious in life, going in and out of depression, like, just kind of going through it, you know, mentally, and couldn't really smile through it.

I'm an optimistic guy, but I was like, I can't just push through this.

And so I reached out for help.

My mom introduced me to a counselor in San Francisco who was profoundly impactful in my life.

And this really came from a Place of, like, spirituality and healing.

I didn't know sports psychology was a thing.

I didn't know any of that.

I just went in there and started just working on healing as a human, you know, becoming whole.

Language like that, like, learning how to become whole and do that stuff.

And of course, that stuff is super powerful, you know.

So I'm a teenager getting introduced to this stuff in the 90s, you know, and so, like, my heart was just opened from this stuff.

And the woman who was teaching it to me was the most, deepest, most confident human I've ever seen in my life.

A confidence beyond what we would consider confidence.

Not like I'm confident.

It was like, man, she's at a place of knowing, like, a different place, where all the stuff that was going on in my life she would just kind of giggle at and not giggle at, like, in a way of, like, insulting, but like a trainer giggling at you.

And you're like, I can't do this set.

And they're like, you got this problem.

And they're like, the fact that they're laughing in the moment feel like it's all over.

And they're just like, I've never seen radiance like that before.

Like, I.

Like, you're fine.

Not like you can do it in a hard time, just giggling.

And if you've ever experienced that, it'll set you free in a moment.

There's a direct transmission that's going on in those moments that directly takes you to a space where they are.

And when you come back from that, you have to do the work every day to figure out how they got there.

And so when she introduced that to me, I was like, wherever you are, I want to figure out how to be there.

And because you're not saying I'm in this special place.

Just her energy in what looked like a crisis, she was giggling.

And I was like, well, that if that's not the highest level, I don't know what the highest level is.

And so that's what I got introduced to in the 90s.

And then I found out about sports psychology three, four years later.

And I was like, oh, that's a thing.

Like, there's a profession you could get a degree in this stuff, you know?

And so I went out and got my master's in sports psych.

But that, you know, sports psych doesn't scratch the surface of the depth of where this goes.

Sports psych was just my way of kind of like, oh, let's go learn it through athletes, teach it to athletes.

Because I had to find a way to bring this to people in a realistic way.

Or is your average teenager going to reach out and go do, like, healing work?

Man, hell, no.

Like that, you know?

But I was like, I love sports, so let me go through sports.

That's my way of laundering this stuff.

You know what I mean?

I was like, you want to win and be better at sports?

We'll start teaching you some of this stuff, you know?

And so that's.

That's where I felt the calling, and that's why I wasn't phased with the stigma or that there were no jobs, or they were like, everyone's against this stuff.

And for me, that's like someone saying they're against water and air.

I would have genuine compassion because I was like, man, they are so lost.

And it.

None of that would faze me because it.

Again, if someone was like, water is bad.

You'd be like, damn, you got about three days before you die.

You know, you'd kind of be like, all right, maybe I should drink water in front of them.

Like, maybe I should start to model this stuff.

And so that.

That's how.

That's how this whole thing started, was from that and just, you know, being anxious and depressed and just basic stuff we all go through.

And I reached out and started to build, really build my mindset up and build it.

And then what again, the whole thing is.

It's an everyday practice.

That's the.

That's the part that's like, it's not one day you get done with it.

It's like, I gotta do it today.

Like, I gotta.

When I woke up today, it's like, okay, let's work on being present today.

Let's find our breath, let's observe thoughts.

Let's recognize we are not our thoughts, we are not our feelings.

You might experience all that, but that's not what you are.

It's not close, you know, and just start to go through the process, you know?

Like, I've been doing this work for a while, but it doesn't mean I just sit here in a state of no thought, total bliss, with my breath every second living, you know, like a mystic.

I'm like, no, I'm here like a regular guy just doing this work.

I have thoughts and feelings and all that stuff.

And when I'm really good at it, I just observe the thoughts.

If I'm not doing well, I might grab onto a thought, act on it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then later on, you're like, what?

Yeah, you know, and so you Know where it's just, it's a practice every day.

That's kind of how I look at it.

And that's how it got introduced to me.

And then my first teacher was also like, this stuff is hardcore.

So that's what a lot of people don't know.

This ain't, this ain't soft at all.

Like, this is really how to fight.

Like, if you want to know how to fight, we can teach you how to fight.

By the time you're fighting outside with your hands, you have lost so many fights.

And I'm not talking about a sport like you're doing UFC or boxing.

I'm talking about, like, if you haven't won the mental game inside and you're projecting violence outside, you have lost epically.

Yeah, absolutely.

Best way to win a war.

Most people know this is never fight a war, right?

They've heard that before.

But then how do you never fight a war?

You win the war inside, and to win the war inside, you gotta be well equipped with a certain skill set and certain tools that are very powerful, that if you don't look at it like a real fight, like, you're gonna be in trouble at times.

And so I tend to phrase this stuff with a certain level of competitive flair that I found people are attracted to in this space.

Right?

Because it's not, oh, this is who am I?

You think?

This is who he.

This is coming at you full speed like a Mack truck.

And if you don't know the counters to all this stuff and sharpen your weapons and know the tools, and you're going to get decimated by stuff that's not even real.

You will follow illusionary thoughts like, you will be gone in life if you don't have agency, especially in the modern world where everyone's being triggered every way from the outside.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude, that's powerful.

That's a powerful metaphor even.

And so simple is like, how, how quickly it does come at you.

Like you get out in a game, you get out in the real world, you get, you move beyond what college to MBA or whatever.

It's like, it's, it's coming at you quick.

You become a CEO, get a promotion, whatever.

Hardcore.

It comes at you in your most vulnerable moments and it comes at you with no mercy.

And all I'm talking about is like self doubt and worry and comparing yourself to others and thinking you're a numerical assessment or something, or you're an a or an A plus or a 4.0 or you're the results like that stuff will come at you hard, and it'll come at you with gripping emotions.

And that's what.

That's what we mostly get caught up.

And if you don't know how to fight in that moment and know the counters to all that, we can get drowned by that.

And the funny thing is, the counters are love, awareness, compassion, acceptance, you know, like, an understanding of who you are.

You still got to go through the experience of the feelings and stuff.

If you have the tools, though, you know how to ride that wave.

That's why I got surfboards behind me.

It's just a reminder of like.

And we say palms down, right?

You can't ride it like this.

We got to ride it choosing our response and knowing how to work through it.

And if you have that competitive spirit and you know what we're doing in these moments, like, this is where the excitement is.

Like, you know, if you have a thrill and you want to learn how to fight, you know, and you want to learn how to really compete, man, this is it.

This is, like.

This frontier will satisfy you on the deepest levels as you go into the darkness and face your fears and come out the other side with the light, and you're like, man, that was the greatest fight I've ever been in.

And it was just a fight against your own self.

You know what I mean?

And as you.

So as you keep freeing yourself and lean into the vulnerability, like getting some buckets, playing hoops or something like that, that's nothing.

Like, that's.

That's not even what this is.

You know, most people come to me, and they.

You know, they think it's sports, but as you get into it, sports is just a medium that you.

That we have been chosen and called to display what we've been working on inside.

And I just feel like I was called to music, I was called to sports.

Like, these are the spaces I was called, what I enjoy.

You know, I mean, I get called to business.

I love business.

I love sales.

Like, I love that space.

And all of this is a space for you just to free your spirit.

Um, because what's great about athletes is they face a certain amount of pressure that allows them to go through this rapidly, where someone might spend most of their life avoiding doing this work because they can.

They can just avoid it somehow.

But, like, trying to avoid your shadow, it's never.

It's all.

It's.

You can't shake it.

But an athlete will be under the lights in a big moment, and by the time they're 25, I'm talking about pro athletes.

They've gone through so much in, like, in hyperdrive.

So they have an opportunity to really free themselves on a deep level energetically, because they're forced into it a lot of times.

And so I just kind of look at it like whatever you love in life, that's the lever you need to put a force on you to show you how to lift weights in the mental game, you know what I mean?

Whatever you're doing and you can't duck this stuff in this lifetime, there's nothing you can do to duck it.

Like, you could make a bunch of money, you could get a bunch of outside of awards.

There's nothing you can do to duck this work.

And it's just like people, it's got going to the gym.

Like, you can do everything you want to avoid going to the gym.

Some way you have to move your body, you know what I mean?

Like, it doesn't matter what it is, but you got to do it.

So that's what I enjoy about this time a lot is it feels like people realize they can't run from this, and that's okay.

That's like realizing, man, it's okay to do this.

And then everything starts to get better.

So I do feel a great thing in this time, along with being like, man, we are out of control with how we trigger people and how we use media and social media and, man, more kids are depressed than ever, like, all that stuff.

But I also see it as like, if that's all happening, then we have the greatest opportunity to really fill people with the stuff.

Because in great crisis comes great opportunity, and it's right here.

You know, most people don't even get to this without a crisis.

Yeah.

It's just, why would I.

Why would I go do it?

You know?

So anyway, that's such, that's such.

No, that's such a powerful metaphor.

Again, like, I mean, it just was a reframe, honestly, of thinking, like, okay, you know, I've got all this pressure on me, and so my life is so much harder.

Yes, yes, sure.

That's.

That's an amazing challenge.

You know, the idiom of pressure is a privilege, you know, and so really, really taking that seriously, I was like, wow, like, you, you have this opportunity, this great opportunity to learn and grow at a much faster rate than most of the world because of the immense pressure that's going to be put on you.

Right.

And, and, and we so as a society also have that same challenge to bring up people like ourselves.

Like, you're doing out in the world to take on the challenge of yes, anxiety and overwhelm and burnout and all these different things that are peeking their head up with the culture of go, go, go, go, go and results driven.

Right, man, no doubt.

I mean, that's why I think this generation coming up is the strongest and greatest generation of all time.

And it is our job to be in service to them.

They get a bad rap of being like soft and in fact, to me it's the exact opposite.

They're the strongest, the most tuned in, the most conscious, the most aware.

They're not going to override bs.

They're not going to push stuff down to follow a track.

Like they have agency from within and they don't just follow blindly.

And I think a lot of people that follow blindly perhaps look at them as lazy or like they're just not going to do the same stuff before.

And I see them as looking for the mental game.

They're looking for this skill set.

They want to know how to tap into purpose and meaning and have the skill set to do that, to find that in their life every day.

And they're gonna, they're gonna stand up for that.

So I've, I've always felt called to this generation and from like 5 year olds up to like whatever, 25, like this group that's like here in the world, I see them as the enlightened group.

And I'm like, it's our job and probably would have been my job the last 25 years to prepare for this, to make a language for them, to help them, to make it simple.

I mean, I put in music now like everything I do is just like, how easy can we get it to people because they need it.

And then the more people have agency and they develop this thing from within, you can't be swayed from the outside.

As, as awful as it seems like people are being swayed in whatever way it is these days.

And so it's like I see that as a real fight that because once you have agency, once you have a presence from inside, someone trying to trigger you is hilarious.

You know what I mean?

Because what's going on and you know how to diffuse it and you understand and you have all that.

But if not, and you feel a strong feeling and say you're feeling angry now, but most of your life you've been feeling scared.

Anger feels better than fear.

And so if people can get to that emotion of anger, they're like, this is way better than feeling shame, guilt, fear or any of that.

Stuff, and that happens all the time.

And people operate from a place of anger.

And of course that's a futile energy that plays out week over time.

You know what I mean?

You might be able to get something going for a day, maybe a year or something like that, but it doesn't play out well over time.

And funny.

Every athlete I've ever worked with, including myself and every, I'm like, hey, do you like it when somebody yells at you angry?

Do you like being coached like that?

And funny.

Not a single person said yes.

So surprisingly, none of us like to be spoken to like that.

Not a single human being.

So funny.

Isn't that hilarious?

But, and I'm not saying I haven't spoken out of anger.

I'm, you know, I'm, I'm in there trying my best too.

But what?

Like, people don't want to be driven by that, by fear and anger anymore.

But when they feel fear and anger, they're like, how do I get out of this?

Because the feeling's very strong, you know, and those are the moments where like, man, if your thoughts are tied into it and you have catastrophe thoughts and you're just riding that thought, like, it can feel like that's the only option.

When in fact, that's like walking into a weight room and someone hands you a 30 pound weight and you may have never held weights before and you're like, oh my God, it's pulling me down.

You're like, that's what it's designed to do.

Guess what you do?

Get your core tight.

Breathe.

Pull that right up, right?

So mentally, we're in the mental gym right now.

It's a great gym.

Not sure anyone, some people wanted to be in it, but they're in the, they're in the mental gym now.

This generation coming up is dying for this.

And they will literally like.

And that's why I'm like, this is the strongest generation of all time, the greatest generation, and has the greatest opportunity and the most weight.

That's on them for sure.

Everyone agrees with that, that they have the most.

And that's all from the adults that set it up like this.

So if anyone is like, these kids don't get it.

I'm like, you set that up for them.

You know what I mean?

You didn't like it?

Well, it looks like you didn't have enough influence to set it up right.

You know what I mean?

So we got to do our work here.

This is all just my opinion, but that's, that's why I always find myself Wanting to help kids and wanting to make this simpler and make it easy.

And why I've always been like, it's got to be bite sized.

It's got to be simple.

It's got to be something they can digest in an easy way and then practice it every day, right?

Because then you don't get swayed.

And if you're following your heart and you're in a place of service, hey, we got a chance to have a pretty beautiful world here.

But you got to know how to fight to do that.

And that's the whole thing.

You got to know how to fight, you know, and most people don't know that.

I think that's like, they're like, you know, when you look at, like, you know, if you're reacting, the negative thoughts and emotions that run through you in a moment, man, we're in trouble, you know.

Do you find.

Sorry, do you find that.

Do you find that the coaches are receptive to this?

Because here's the thing, you are almost a spokesperson for this generation, for the 5 to 25.

You have a different view of them, right, Than an average person does.

And let's just say there's a coach out there who likes to scream and yell at people.

Maybe he can't, you know, control his own reactions, or perhaps he thinks that's a good strategy, or perhaps he lacks other strategies, you know.

And so for me, it's always been very important to address the self regulation of parents, coaches, teachers, managers, all those things, because they're creating the environment almost like the soil in which we either grow or struggle to grow, right?

And so it's like, all right, do you find yourself, I guess, able to.

And often able to address that and find coaches receptive to the fact that they might be the ones causing this environment in which people are struggling to produce the results they want.

I think at this point, people are pretty aware of it, you know, like, and you see it as a culture that in general, people are aware and they're looking for how to do it.

Because we all, like, we've all coached, we know you and we've all.

If you watch your kids play sports, everyone feels strong feelings.

You know, if your kid gets fouled and there's no call, sheesh.

Parents, parents can react massive in those moments, you know, so, but that, that's the, like, we have a responsibility to show our kids how to choose our response in those moments, you know, and how to be emotionally intelligent and.

And how to do those things.

So I think it seems like everyone is receptive at this point.

Again, it might be someone, though, who's like, hey, I'm finally ready to work out.

They may have not hit the gym for 35 years, right?

So it doesn't mean like the first day you go, it even feels good, might, you know, the first day, but like, people are pretty aware of it.

And at this point, if you're not doing it, some team is going to really kick your ass that is doing this stuff.

You know what I mean?

And that's.

And that's what I notice all the time.

And that's why my dog gets excited sometimes.

Sorry.

But that's all good.

Why I wanted to go in with sports too is I knew, like, we could teach this stuff and beat other teams.

And when you beat other teams, they're going to open their eyes, right?

So they're like, oh, what are you doing?

I'm like, this is.

We're doing loving things, creating safe environments for people.

Loving things.

The next play fast, right?

Tap, you know tap.

What tap means is trust, acceptance and presence.

Trust your skills, accept the results and be present.

Like, that's it.

That's the entire competition.

That took me 27 years to get it.

That simple.

It doesn't mean it's easy to do, but when you say, hey, what's the goal?

It's tap.

Like, trust your skills right now.

And whatever thought is telling you not to do it, we're not going to listen to that.

Because there's never a time not to trust.

If I ask an athlete or a coach, hey, is this, would this be a good time to not trust your game?

They're always like, no, it's never a good time to not trust.

So it's the acceptance that is important.

Most people aren't trusting their game because they're not accepting something.

Maybe they don't want a result to happen.

They don't want to fail.

You have to ruthlessly accept, like, this is where.

This is the actual fight, right?

The part of you that's like, no, I can't make a make a mistake in front of my coach.

The acceptance is, I might make a mistake in front of my coach.

That might.

That might be what happens.

And I'm going to learn to live with that and I'm going to trust my game and I'm going to do it in the present right now.

I'm going to tap in right now.

That's the fight.

You just won the fight.

Now you might very well dribble it off your foot.

You might do something atrocious on the court, that shit happens.

But then we say, so what?

Next play, come back, do it again, right?

And we're not saying being reckless when you play, but we're like, if this is what you're here to trust, you have to trust it.

And once you know that tap is the fight, you just get to the root of the fight.

And so if someone's like, I'm competitive, I want to win, we go, okay, let's see.

We'll see about it.

Where this comes down to is a moment when you're playing.

You're going to have a subtle thought that's like, just don't trust.

And it'll be so subtle, so mellow, you probably won't notice it.

And then you just, boom.

You don't trust.

Just like that.

And that's how lethal it is.

And that's why when you're in this fight, you're like, you know how subtle it is, you know how powerful it comes to you in your moments.

And it just comes so subtle, you don't even notice it.

And you just let it in and then, boom, you're gone.

So consciousness is what we're doing, where as long as you're aware what the fight is in that moment and say the thought pops through, hey, don't trust.

The counter would be.

Laugh at it.

You're like, you're welcome to be here and say, not trust.

Guess what I'm going to do?

Guess what I'm going to do?

I'm going to go trust my shit right now.

And then that thing that told you not to trust, it has no counter for that.

You've.

You've literally got it right where you want it, and then you go for the kill shot and you go, okay, let's go see what happens.

I'm cool.

If I airball this shot, I'm cool with whatever it's.

Whatever reason you're telling me not to trust, I'm cool with that.

And that's the equivalent if you were in a real fight.

Like when I work with the Navy or police officers or something like that.

It's a different.

That's different than sports, right?

That's way different right there.

They have a bad day, they're.

Their family's devastated.

You know, you never want to fight someone that's down to die.

You know, like, if someone's like, if today's the day I die, today's the day I die.

If you fight that person, you better be there, too.

So imagine that in a non life or death situation, like sports in General where you're like, dude, if I have to fail miserably today, so be it.

That's.

That's confidence.

And you may feel vulnerable in that moment, uncomfortable.

But you have the clarity in what you have on your hands.

The devotion.

This is when the devotion gets tested.

You're like, devotion has nothing to do with motivation.

Most people want confidence and motivation.

I'm like, that's futile.

What's confidence anyway?

Like, a feeling.

What's motivation?

A feeling.

I'd rather have clarity and devotion.

And the clarity is I'm doing this, and the devotion is I'm doing it right now.

And that.

That's unstoppable.

But that's a real fight, right?

Because you are going to face some things inside of you that are telling you for really logically good reasons to not trust.

And in basketball, just a general story is say you miss your first five shots.

Logic is like, it's not my day, so I'm not going to trust.

You cannot unlearn how to shoot a basketball.

In a basketball game, missing five shots.

You can't.

It's impossible.

But if you stop trusting, you have essentially shut your whole self down.

And so once you know this fight and you're like, my only goal is to tap, then you put everything you have into that, and you become aware in the moments that you would usually bail, and you start to anticipate those.

And that's like a boxer that goes, I know where the punches are coming from.

So if you can anticipate the moments, you usually don't tap, slip it, bang, hit it right back with trust.

Now we're in a good fight, and you want to have no mercy on whatever's telling you not to trust because it's having no mercy on you.

Fact, right, it's having no mercy on you.

It just may come off subtle.

It may come off like some victim.

It may feel.

Come with an emotion that actually makes you feel comfortable in the moment where you're like, who?

If I don't have to trust now, I feel safe.

You ain't safe.

You're getting choked out in that moment.

You don't even know it.

And that choke's just slipping in deeper and deeper and deeper.

By the time you go home, you feel like you're dead because you just killed your spirit by not trusting.

So to me, that's the mental game, you know, is like, you can get it down to, like, what's the essence of what you do?

And whatever you're doing, trust that.

And when I say the essence like say you're shooting a basketball.

It might be like, get my feet squared up and flick my wrist.

You're like, I just do that.

Whether it goes in or out, dude, I don't know.

I don't know.

Like, who knows?

I just do the essence.

I get my.

As long as my feet are right, we're straight.

I'm not thinking about making shots, missing shots.

I don't care about any of that.

I just go feet, right?

Trust it.

And then the acceptance is where you get into faith.

Acceptance is where the spirituality comes in, right?

That's where the real fight comes in.

And that's where you want to, you want to have deep mental game in those moments.

You want to have a deep bag of what acceptance means and what.

And like the opposite of acceptance is holding on.

Holding on is like holding hundred pound weights in a pool.

Like you're going to go down.

You know what I mean?

Like, no matter how much you can tread water, you won't be, it won't be long before, before that in acceptance is drop the weights.

Yeah, drop it.

And.

But a lot of times that's, that's a big transformative moment to do that.

The athletes that go through that experience and, and do that, they develop a confidence that's otherworldly because it's transformation.

It's not like I have to feel good to tap in.

Then you get to the other level, like we say, victory to the vulnerable, where you're like, dude, I'm fine, I'll tap in no matter what because I'm safe.

And you realize you're actually not safe if you don't tap in.

Once you get to that, once you get to.

If I don't trust right now and don't accept that I don't do in the present, that's dangerous.

And that's dangerous on a spiritual level.

That's dangerous to your energy, that's dangerous to everything that eventually days and days of doing that compound into stress, disease, all kinds of stuff.

So you're like, oh, this is dangerous.

So like, if my fear is I miss this shot, it.

I'll miss every shot because if I don't, I'm dying inside and I ain't doing that.

You know what I mean?

So.

And of course, this only works if you practice your sport.

You're dedicated.

This can't be like you've never tried or you don't work out.

You go join some, try to join some team and just tap in.

This is predicated with I do all the work, I do the physical work, I do all of that, then of course I'm going to go trust myself.

If you don't do all the prep work, you're trusting nonsense at that point, right?

So this is.

This is the final piece of, like, I do everything, and now the final piece is, let's just go trust and see what happens.

And you don't know what's going to happen.

And you accept that.

You don't know results.

That's even more lethal for your opponents.

Because if you don't know what you're going to do, how could they know what you're going to do, right?

So you don't want to know what you're going to do.

You don't want to know if you're going to win or you're going to lose or when you're going to score.

You don't want to know that.

You want to be like, the more I don't know, the more this defender, they're in big trouble.

Of course a part of you wants to know, right?

Of course it wants to know, but that's the part of you we're getting rid of.

That's what mental training is, is getting to your higher self.

You know what I mean?

Listening to that.

And that's why we say you're actually playing a different game.

Like, I'm not playing volleyball.

I'm playing the mental game.

I'm playing, can I tap?

Can I trust?

Can I accept?

Can I be present?

Whatever happens in volleyball is whatever's going to happen, that if you're competing against someone like that, oh, you already know you're gonna have, like, it's gonna be a long day and you better be back.

Same thing.

Because they're like, I'm not even playing against you.

They're like, I'm.

Thank God my opponent is here.

You're giving me a chance to go do this tap work.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Better you are, the better I am.

You better be doing the same stuff.

If they're like that, if you go to a place of fear in that moment and be like, oh, my God, I got to beat them, you're already lost.

You're like, all I got to do is tap, you know, and once like that to me, I've seen that unlock a lot of people.

So anyway, that's what I was going to ask that.

So I mean, that.

That already sounds like incredibly beneficial for anyone to hear as far as the positive advantages of, you know, being really focused in the moment and how much more of an edge it really can be.

And then also on the flip side, the disadvantages of, you know, how, how much weight it can bear on you, how it's like literally like you said that holding those dumbbells and, you know, all you have to do to come up to the top and stay afloat is, is like, oh, you know.

And so do you find, are there other methods in which you might be able to help someone who finds themselves obsessed with the results really, like struggling, like they don't want to make an air ball in front of everybody.

You know, they'll be so embarrassed and they're kind of like, you know, if you're having a one on one talk with them and not just addressing a group of people with these concepts, you know, what might that look like?

I mean, it's really very similar, you know, I mean, if you're talking with someone one on one in general, they're probably open to it.

And you ask them, hey, what does it feel like when you don't trust?

What's that like in your life?

And they're all going to be like, it's horrible.

Like, and you just talk to them like, what's it like when you don't accept, what's it like trying to control results?

How's that going for you?

Are you getting the results you like?

You know, so you just.

Because they're using logic in those moments, right?

They're using logic.

So you just be with them, you just talk to them logically and usually you can get that pretty quick that they realize if I'm avoiding making mistakes, that's like a baby saying, I want to learn to walk, but I don't want to fall.

You're like, you know that's not going to happen, right?

Like, you have to embrace falling all the time as that's the actual thing, you know, so if someone doesn't want to miss, you know, and they're avoiding missing shots, you're like, hey, that's a baby.

Avoiding falling.

You know you're never going to walk, right?

Like, you'll never go through that experience.

So you just try to get them to embrace it and then be like, you know, this is training, so like it's okay to feel uncomfortable.

And then, you know, I got this belt that says victory to the vulnerable on it.

I pulled a belt out and I'm like, look man, like, if you want to be competitive, let's compete at trusting and accepting and whatever you're afraid of.

That's the weights you need for your mind.

Like, we need those weights.

You know, So I just try to be with people and connect with them.

It is similar to someone working out at a gym, though.

Everyone knows they should be working out, right?

Pretty much every human being in the world.

Does that mean they do it?

No, there's still.

There's still a part of.

There's an effort to doing that.

Like, you have to.

It takes effort.

So mental training is the same thing.

This stuff takes effort, takes work, and for some people, it's not the right moment for them.

So what I tell them is, hey, whenever you're ready, I'm here.

But if you don't want to do it, we can't talk about you wanting to win, because you don't want to win.

You just want to.

You want to feel comfortable in these moments, and that's totally fine.

That's like walking to the weight room and going, I just want to walk around.

You're like, no problem.

You can walk around.

Like, we're not going to do anything.

But after, if you're like, where are my muscles?

You're like, man, it doesn't work like that.

You just.

You just kind of, you know, you take your time with folks and I might send them a song.

I'm like, just listen to this song, right?

Just.

You meet people right where they are and just try to connect and let them know, like, hey, whenever you're ready, it's here.

But most people get it that when they're avoiding making mistakes, they know that doesn't feel good.

They know that.

They know that's not it.

They just don't know what to do in those moments.

They know that's not it, or else they would feel good.

They'd be like, oh, it's amazing avoiding making mistakes.

I feel so great later.

No, they're all like, I feel horrible.

And it's like, devastating.

I'm like, no, you feel heavy, don't you?

By definition, you should feel heavy because you're holding on.

You're not accepting.

And I don't mean you should, like, but I mean, like, this isn't hooey.

This is real.

So if you hold on, you're going to be heavy, right?

If you learn to accept, which takes compassion and love, a willingness to feel vulnerable, you're going to feel lighter.

And once you experience that, the first time, you're like, oh, I just figured out how to train.

So when I feel scared, I feel like gripping and holding on to something.

Ah, that's a side to breathe and let go.

And usually what we mean by let go, let's say you're holding on to not wanting to make a mistake.

And you're like, well, what does let go mean?

Let go means let's go make a bunch of mistakes.

Like, counter it.

Because if it's like, don't make a mistake.

You're like, well, today we make a mistake, then we're going to make mistakes.

And it doesn't have a counter to that.

Because if you can love yourself unconditionally when you make mistakes, you've just won a fight, right?

Because the fear is telling you if you make mistake, your life is over.

It's not going to work.

That's all an illusion.

None of that is real.

But until you actually go face it and say, look, if a mistake happens, a mistake happens, which is a lethal punch, right?

That's a wham.

It doesn't know how to counter that.

And then you tell it, you know what?

By making mistakes, that's how I'm going to learn to really do this.

This isn't a mistake.

This is the mechanics of success.

What are you talking about?

And then you counter it with something like that.

And then it's like, it's in a.

It's in a.

It's in a bad fight and you got it right where you want it.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, basically all you're doing is talking yourself into allowing yourself to feel uncomfortable for a little moment.

That's it.

That's what this all comes down to.

People don't want to feel uncomfortable.

So just like.

You know what I mean?

So if you can just feel uncomfortable for a brief moment with no hesitation, you can win the fight very quickly.

Most people prolong it.

They avoid the uncomfortable peace.

And then that causes suffering and that causes profound injury.

And all these other things where once you realize, look, I'm going to go, like, if you're going to lift weights, we're going to get uncomfortable for a sec.

Let's go get it.

We don't have to linger around forever, but let's go get it.

And then after.

How do you feel?

Really good.

Yeah, you want to.

So once you get those habits down and you're like, when I say victory to the vulnerable, that literally means if you allow yourself to feel vulnerable and you still tap in, you, you will experience victory.

And by victory, we mean incredible energy.

You will unlock real energy and you will enlighten.

This isn't like a joke.

Like, and if you hold on, you will feel heavy.

There's, like, really, like, real.

You'll really feel heavy.

You'll feel like gravity's stronger on you.

And then when the word enlightenment is real, like when you start to work on acceptance, you're like, I feel lighter.

I've had athletes figure this stuff out when they're 32, 33, and they're like, I'm more athletic at 34 than I was at 24.

Because at 24, they were holding on.

And finally at some point, they're like, I'm done holding on.

I want to experience life after.

And all of a sudden, they totally open up and they're moving with more fluidity, more grace, they're lighter.

Like all these things happen and it doesn't make any sense till you do it.

You know what I mean?

Because you're like, how could that be?

You know, or whatever, you know?

But that's why this is such an advantage if you do it, you know?

Yeah.

So.

So going through that 27 years of it, it taking you to developing this tap method and having it be so simple.

Can you talk about some of the stuff that you were teaching at the very beginning that may have not been so simple and kind of your journey of getting to the tap method, you know, just some of the things that you did coming up that may not have been the smartest or the best or.

Or that you optimized.

Man.

You know, sometimes early on, you end up saying everything you know to people because you just want to make sure you give.

Like someone like a strength and conditioning coach, when they first work someone out, they usually just do way too much, you know, I mean, they.

They work everything out times a thousand.

That's not what that person needed.

So I definitely felt that early on this, like, oh, like, do I need to tell them everything I know, but I always, honestly, I always knew the fight was, it's got to be simple.

Like, I knew that was it because, like, the woman teaching me, it was so vast what she was teaching it, like, in it and like, it incorporated, like, essentially everything.

So you're like, okay, I always knew I gotta get it to a 14 year old in 30 seconds in real time.

And if I can, if I can get it to a 14 year old in 30 seconds in real time, then we've got something here.

Then any human being could essentially do this, right?

Then we got e equals mc squared.

And that's where things started to come together.

Like, I was teaching play present, which is like the Actual goals to be present.

I didn't know what to do in the present yet, but I knew we had to be in the present.

And then we taught what we call next play speed.

I got this little next play speed whistle, which is like, after you shoot a basketball or after you do something, how fast can you move on to the next play?

And we were saying, we don't care if you make or miss shots.

Essentially, that's acceptance.

But we didn't.

I didn't know to use the word acceptance.

I just was like, I don't care if you make or miss.

And they were like, what do you mean you don't care?

Like, we have to make shots.

And I was like, you know, if you're great, you're going to miss half if you're great.

So we have to do well on the ones we miss.

We have to be able to move forward with grace and get going and move on.

So that was the language we started with and just worked on play present and next play speed.

And it was like, just be in the moment, and then when that moment's done, get on with the next moment as fast as you can and do it again.

And then that's what we're going to judge you on.

Like, that's it.

We're not going to judge you on results and outcomes.

And we just started doing that.

I didn't think it was going to win as big as it started to win.

I just was like, this is going to help some kids out.

We'll use basketball.

And then working at Mission High School in San Francisco, where I started, like, like, within four years, we won the city championship in San Francisco.

And, like, the program just took off, and I was just an assistant coach helping out.

And my job was like, the mental game and just helping a little bit.

But, like, the head coach was so solid.

He was the dean of the school.

Like, we had support, and they.

They might have won 12 city championships in, like, 16 years.

After that, even won the state title.

And, you know, so doing all this historical stuff and so that stuff, to me, just let me know, okay?

It is simple.

We got the language simple.

And then I knew I had to get it into a book.

I had to make it real.

I had to just go from, like, I'm just saying some stuff, which is every dime a dozen, right?

Everyone's got a few things to say.

Maybe a little personality.

I'm like, and a good friend.

It was like, if you don't write in a book, you're just going to be a Dude with a cool personality who talks a little bit, and that's everywhere, and you need to be different.

So I was like, I can't write.

I don't know how to write.

And he was like, well, you have to.

And it's 50 pages long.

I worked with an artist, so it has art.

It's really simple.

It took me like my whole life to get it to 50 pages to make.

And to my knowledge, I think it's the smallest mental training book that might exist, or maybe not.

But, like, that was my goal.

And that was 10 years ago almost.

And since then, I feel like I have it a thousand times simpler now to where, like you said, literally, it's just this.

It's just tap.

Yes.

And I got a song called Tap.

And so we went from like putting it on words and pages to where you have to read it to process it into an action to now it's a symbol.

And then you can put a song on.

Listen to the song for three minutes and you're being trained in it and it's hitting your subconscious.

And we train through music, not.

Not just because music is fun.

And like, why wouldn't you want to train with music?

Like, who would want something without that?

But the science behind learning with music is profound.

That you retain the information at twice, twice the ability with melody.

And if you were.

If you're singing something, right, you can retain it because it has melody to it.

So we say, like, I don't react, I respond, I take a breath and I move on.

Right?

That's just a little example of something that.

Like that once or twice, that might be with you for life.

And then if you start saying that yourself ten times a day and you get it into, I don't react, I respond, I take a breath, and I move on.

Now it's like we're working on cognitive, behavioral, tried and true principles of the mental game, like shift how you're thinking and shift what you're doing, right?

So all this stuff, while it seems kind of fun and like, not silly, but like, is this real?

Hell yeah, this is real.

And it's based.

It's backed on all the deep science and all that.

And for kids, again, if you can get this into something simple where they don't even know it's.

It's like they're doing anything.

Like you just have a song in the background, but, like, it's hitting your subconscious, right?

It's sticking there.

Then we've made something so simple.

It's like, you know, it's, it's there.

So that's why.

But I got it into like chains.

Like another one was like Walk to Win.

I got all these like wild chains and like and you put them out there.

Because what people are Walk to Win is the counter to anxiously running to results.

Most people are anxiously trying to get to like some level or they want to get to some place and then when they're there they're still feel like how they were before they got there because they're like, I need to get somewhere else.

And so Walk to Win helps remind you that it's here right now.

Everything you're looking for is here.

And lock in today with a one day deal.

That's the other chain.

It's not, hasn't arrived yet.

But one day deal means just do it today.

So walk to Win tap one day deal, palms down.

The opposite of doing this.

All of those came after I wrote Play present.

So Play present took me 20 years to write.

Tap is shorter than E equals MC squared.

So that's something I'm proud of because it really does take a while.

But my mind is obsessed with this stuff and it's cool sometimes.

But sometimes I'd have to tell myself, please give me a break because I can't just keep like downloading information, trying to process it and bringing it to the earth.

I mean that's what this is.

When you can tap into it, you tap into where it comes from.

I didn't make any of this stuff up.

I just tapped into it and was like, oh, there it is.

My job is to bring it to this world.

That's like why I call myself a guide.

I'm like, okay, I can pick it up, I can hear it pretty well and I can pick it up and then use creativity to bring it to us, how we need to bring it.

And yeah, I find myself like it's amazing where it goes basically.

Like I didn't know I was going to go here, going to music, going to this stuff.

But like there it is.

So yeah, at first you're just saying a bunch of words, right?

And eventually you get into a book, then you get into a song.

I always had the hardest time, Todd, with five year olds because a five year old, you can't just talk to a five year old, right?

If you're not singing and Dancing, they will laugh at you.

Like, you can talk to a teenager in general, you can talk to someone who's in their 20s, you can talk to someone in their 30s.

But a five year old, if you go in and you're like, hey, let's be present, they're just going to like turn around and look to the side and they're like, what are you talking about?

But if you're like, okay, everyone, you ready to do sing along?

Okay, you ready?

We don't want to do this.

We do this.

All right, everyone do this.

I don't react, I respond.

Every five year old, it's like, I don't react, I respond, right, then you.

It's like teaching the ABCs doesn't mean they're going to do it at a high level or anything like that.

But, but it's there, right?

So as you go through life, you're like, hey, wait.

I don't react, I respond.

I'm in a moment where I feel like just reacting.

I guess I have a choice how I respond.

Oh, okay, I'll take a breath.

Oh, then I move on.

So that talk track is there, that cognition is there to hopefully influence behavior in those moments.

Right.

And do that.

So now I'm like, okay, if I can get into a five year old or a four year old and it makes sense to them and they can repeat it, then really anybody can do this stuff.

Yeah.

So is it, is it like hip hop kind of like music?

Yeah, hip hop, jazz, R B, spoken word, Afro beats.

I mean, like really country.

I made a country song the other day.

Like, no way.

It's.

Well, yeah, it was whatever comes like.

And I'm under Graham the guide.

So that's where I do all the music I draw.

I've dropped probably close to 200 songs in the last two years.

I make the beats.

So I've turned into, I mean, you did some music.

I didn't know it was like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.

I've, I've produced a couple R B songs that have nothing to do with mental training.

They're love songs with some great artists who are like just rappers and singers and we don't even have a connection in the mental performance space.

I'm just producing music.

So that's the, like, you never know where life's going to go when you keep listening to your heart and keep doing the work.

And I would have never thought in my 40s I'd become a music producer.

But I have, you know, and I, I, I've made probably 700 beats in the last year and a half.

And I can't even explain it, really.

You know, I'm just here serving, doing the work.

And I knew I was supposed to make music.

I didn't know why.

I knew I loved it, and I just kept sticking with it.

And it's fun to see where it goes.

I found myself speaking at Solano County Prison the other week with the Golden State warriors, their basketball camps.

They were helping out, teaching inmates how to coach.

And that was one of the most powerful experiences in my life.

To go work with them, with some folks in there being lifers, you know, no chance of coming out, and you're working on being present.

You're like, okay, this is a whole different level.

Like, someone may not want to be there, but yet this is where we are.

And learning to, like, make our home where we are is really important for your mental health and that.

And what.

How much more profound is it to do it with folks like that?

So I'm blown away where this goes.

I find myself training police officers and prisoners at the same time, and I think it's interesting to be like, wow, hopefully what we're doing.

Like, I agreed to help train police officers because I wanted to lower use of force.

And I was like, if we give them mental skills and equip them with all this stuff, right, Instead of reacting, right, learning to choose your response, that we know, deescalate, we know it intuitively, that's going to de.

Escalate scenes.

And when you see someone who's emotionally intelligent, we like to look at that as being an alpha.

And Alpha is not who's got the biggest gun and muscles.

It's who's the one who can harmonize the energy of the room.

I always knew Alphas to be women around my life, you know, because they were the most skilled at this stuff.

So I find myself working with police officers now, teaching them, and then most recently, being called to work in prisons.

And I see this, like, amazing thing of, like, okay, someone gets released from prison, right, and they're coming back into the world, there is some pretty good odds against them at that point of re coming back in, you know, of just kind of playing out the same loop.

So if we give them the mental skills to kind of choose their response in moments, right, and to breathe and not react, because most of them are in there because they reacted in a really challenging moment.

And if we give the same skills to police officers now, we're creating a moment where perhaps two folks come together and they're like, the most mindful people in the world connecting in that moment.

And maybe in the past, that was a, could be a pretty lethal, dangerous moment, you know, and now we're doing something different.

So I'm always blown away where this stuff goes.

And, you know, I, I don't feel called to sports.

Like, I once, I mean, I still help out UConn this year.

And, you know, I have the, my mental training academy I do every Sunday called Palms down for Kids.

But, like, I'm not like, dying to go work with teams or to go help more pro athletes get better at being pros or something like that.

Like, I did that for 20 straight years, and that's kind of like run its course on a deep level for me.

And so it is kind of fun to see where it's going now and, you know, see where I'm supposed to, like, take this and serve.

And I never would have thought police officers and prisoners, but pretty cool when you just kind of follow your heart to kind of see that so much bigger than you and it goes to play.

Like when you're devoted to something and you just keep showing up, like, it goes there.

And so, yeah, basically a producer working with police officers and prisoners.

So, so crazy.

Do you have, do you, do you have a larger dream or.

I mean, I know a lot of people are going to be like, perfectly in the moment and seeing where it goes, and that's totally fair.

You know, like, I have no idea where my business is taking me, and we'll just see what happens.

But at the same time, do you have, like, a larger vision for how you might like to impact more and more people?

I mean, I, I, I always do.

I always see a big vision and I just remind myself to come back and handle it today.

And that's how you get, like, the big things happening is you just do the little work today and it gets to really big stuff.

So I've always known this was going to go to business for me, that it was going to be really, really big in a business space.

And so I help out this company now called Dream Team and Dream Team DreamTeam wins.com is the website and we help ex athletes transition into software sales to make the make the leap.

When they're done playing sports and they're done doing what they do, we help them kind of transition into this other space.

And the two founders I've worked with, they're both basketball people.

One I've coached with for 18 years, one did really well in sales and was always, always loved Basketball and was like, hey, I've been part of the three of the bigger IPOs in software sales.

By the time I was 35, I got generational wealth.

What I need to, like, help other people come into the space.

And so they called me to ask me to be a part.

My heart was like, yes, man.

Like, this is it.

So sports and sales are essentially identical, you know, so I've always had a big passion for both of those, and I see it going into the business realm now, into that space.

And I'm building a team, a dream team, like, where I'm kind of.

I'm the chief mindset officer.

I think that's a pretty cool title.

And I've always.

And I'm just building a team.

So I'm bringing on mental performance coaches and kind of.

I really like helping other people be successful.

I like helping other people set up generational wealth, you know, for their families.

I really enjoy all of that.

And, of course, all that starts with a mindset.

So, yeah, it's going to business.

I kind of knew it was always going to go there, and I just had to, you know, wait for the timing.

And, you know, the last couple years when I've transitioned from basketball, I've kind of just been making this transition into business.

And of course, music and, you know, police and folks who have been locked up.

That's happening.

But I see the next 20 years of my life really doing big things in business and helping companies create cultures where the mental game is seamlessly integrated into everything they do.

And it's not some outside thing or some love luck.

It's like we.

Everything we do is a mindset.

Everything we do, we develop people mentally.

We develop them as human beings.

And of course, what that does in business is profound.

You know, so the cool thing about businesses in general, no one's physically trying to stop you.

So it's a little bit different in sports.

Like, in sports, someone's physically trying to stop you.

In business, no one's doing that.

So it's like you don't even have as many obstacles in sports, but you find the obstacles are just yourself.

So the word CEO to me stands for Conscious Energy Officer.

And if we can help train people to be a leader and lead from a place of energy, where they're only putting energy into the space that brings out the best and the people they're called to lead, can you imagine.

Can you imagine what that does, how powerful that is?

Like, sports is usually the first to pick up on stuff like this.

It's kind of the barometer, that business copy sports.

So just seems like a natural thing for me, Todd, to go into it.

And I'm having a blast, man.

Like, I'm really having a blast doing it.

And I enjoy watching people flourish.

And you know, that transition from being like, if you've been an athlete your whole life and transitioning into something else, that's not easy, you know, because you built an identity in a certain space and that's what's made you feel comfortable and.

But yet that same mindset you had being successful as an athlete is overwhelmingly successful in business, let alone sales, where it is astronomically successful.

And most people with software sales may not even know about that industry.

It's an incredible industry.

I think a lot of athletes get involved in, you know, maybe real estate or some kind of finance or something like that.

And software sales is one of those things that is sky's the limit to what you can do with it.

And as you know, like open AI or cloud, like, these businesses are booming, you know, and they're not going anywhere.

And so to this point, AI can't sell big ticket, big ticket items.

You need a human being for all those type of things.

Turns out you need the nuance of a human being.

So these human skills of being able to perform under pressure, to be present and all those, that in my assessment, is the ultimate thing where this is all going like all the technology we have, all the apps and whatever it is it's all leading to, can you connect to a human being?

Because if you are not connected to a human being, you'll always be yearning for that.

And once you know that, you know that, you know that every human needs to connect with other human beings.

And so I see a peak of this technology that's like, say, for example, you're on a dating app and it gets everything but the actual human connection piece.

It'll set you up next to the person, it'll tee the whole thing up, and then what's the last piece?

You got to actually know how to be present with someone, to lean into vulnerability.

Right?

The actual, the actual thing.

So to me, Todd, this technology here, this is the final frontier of what we're learning to use ourselves.

And that's where everything is leading.

So ultimately, when I, when I say I'm in business, I'm in the business of human development, you know, I'm in the business of helping humans unlock themselves, unleash themselves, and become unlimited.

And we're just, we're going to do it through business.

But whether you like it or not, that's where it's going, dude.

100% agree is.

Yeah, especially on the technology front.

You know, I think that technology is giving us, you know, how, how you said that there's those challenges that kind of produce results essentially, you know, at a.

At a rapid rate.

And so now with technology, I think it kind of forces us to ask ourselves, what does it mean to be human?

As if we are putting a neural link in our head and if we're replacing our arms and all, what does it actually mean to be human?

And what does it mean to optimize ourselves as a human being?

Does it mean putting in machinery?

Does it mean increasing our character traits?

To me, what it means to be human really means the love and the connection and all those things that are not tangible, you know, and so for us to, to improve those seems like one of the most important things as we move forward into a increasingly technological world.

That's it, man.

That's.

That's how I.

I mean, if you can't connect with another human being, right?

If you can't get deep most of the time, another human being is the deepest we'll get in life.

Like a relationship, something, could be a friendship, could be romantic.

Whatever it is that requires you like to be open in that to open yourself up requires incredible work.

So many people have just closed off their whole technology because they don't want to be hurt or whatever it is and don't even know how to get to the higher states of vibration, the higher states of existence.

And when you get to the higher state of vibration or existence, nobody is wondering what the purpose of life is in those places.

They're experiencing the totality of life and they're like, oh, my God.

No one is like, what's.

Why am I here?

You really only ask that when you're not experiencing those levels of energy.

When you experience that level of energy, you're not asking why you're here.

You're like, this is it now.

How.

How do I feel this totality?

How do I open myself up to this thing?

And that's where the mental skills come in.

That's where the devotion, the practice comes in.

And so it's like all the technology is guiding you to that.

You know what I mean?

And just like, I.

I guess I bet, like, no technology can work out for you, no matter what.

It can set it up, it can create a workout for you, can make, put it in your house, it can make it easy, but it can't actually do it for you.

You know, and so it's still, this still comes down to you have to have be responsible for yourself.

And there's nothing going to take that away.

There's nothing that you can just like avoid that work.

And you could have what looks like everything in life, but if you can't connect with another human, you'll always know that something really profound is missing.

That's something on a very deep level or else people will just go away.

They would just want to be by themselves.

That's not what happens.

People need other human beings.

What's the worst thing you can do to someone in prison?

Isolate them, like take them away from everybody.

It's worse than keeping them around everybody, you know what I mean?

Like, that's the torture in life.

So I think like to me all this stuff is just leading to, we're going to learn how to connect as humans.

And that takes some work, it takes some vulnerability.

But that's where all, that's where all the breakthroughs are, you know.

So I'm in the business of that.

I'm in the business of helping humans unlock themselves.

And if technology can get you closer to the gym, no problem.

You still got to walk through the doors.

Yeah, right.

You still, you could basically he can drop you off in front and tell you like, great job and here's all your metrics.

But like you still gotta go, like still gotta go do it.

So I'm curious about some of the deeper, let's say self worth issues that are behind someone's obsession with results or someone's inability or unwillingness to make mistakes, you know, as if it's like going to mean something very significant for them in a negative way.

And so how would you kind of traverse or I guess I'm curious about some of your experiences traversing that line between counselor, therapist and mental skills coach.

Because I personally believe that you could, you could solve.

I don't want to.

Maybe not solve is not the right word, but you can treat a lot of these, these things going on through the mental skills and not necessarily need to go to a counselor or therapist.

But obviously everyone's completely different.

Everyone's experiencing their own stuff.

And so how have you kind of come up against that as a mental skills coach?

Because that's something that personally scares me a little bit.

Like just kind of like if something gets deep, like if someone.

Yeah, like depression, like dealing with like actual depression, anxiety, being, being willing to refer out kind of that, that kind of stuff.

I'm sure you've probably referred out someone at Some point.

But at the same time you're kind of doing mental skills presentation, so you don't really need to like, you know, deal with that necessarily.

So I'm curious, just important to know.

Your own boundaries too.

Like if you feel uncomfortable with something or something is like not where you feel qualified to help someone, it's definitely important to have like really great referrals within your system.

I have some great doctors that I've built relationships with and I always have like a marriage and family therapy referrals.

I got referrals that can help you through incredible trauma, you know, like, really, really, really deep stuff.

So it's just important where you feel comfortable doing that and knowing your own boundaries and knowing kind of like, okay, what's my lane here?

You know, I look at myself like a strength coach for your mind, you know, so if you're in like a life or death crisis, that's.

I'm not the person, you know, can I help people?

Can, you know, of course.

But like, that's not my role.

If someone.

So for me, it's always really important to do this stuff now at this, with boundaries now.

At the same time, I look at myself as a proactive teacher and most of the time, most of the stuff I'm teaching is addressing really, really deep stuff without them even knowing it.

Right?

When we're like, okay, we're going to work on total acceptance, that is incredibly deep, right?

You're like, acceptance.

Well, I'm going to start accepting how my parents are.

I'm going to start accepting all this stuff I've been holding on to and all these things.

So you might have incredible trauma built up in your life and then someone tells you that, hey, acceptance is totally okay.

And that might start your work in that space, you know, to start looking at some of this stuff and exploring some of this stuff.

But I'm always like, man, work with as many teachers as you can.

Work with as many people who can help you out, you know, as you can and find the benefits of learning how to work with.

Yeah, someone who's maybe a counselor, someone who's a therapist, someone who's a marriage and family therapist.

Work with a mystical person.

Work with someone.

I know I have people in my life who have no degrees and they've written best selling books and they're just like, I'm so tapped into God.

I can hear it clear and I'm, I can, I can write it out.

I'm like, cool, man, let it rip.

So I get like, let it rip.

Like I Know, people with certifications and degrees and couldn't cross the street, you know, on their own, with their own selves.

So never let education get in the way of intelligence.

You know what I mean?

Never, never mistake those two things at all.

But it's important, you know, I hear a lot, I get this a lot, that, hey, Graham, there's a lot of frauds out there, and there's a lot of, like, people out, and I'm like, man, they don't come around me, you know?

So I like, I.

For whatever reason, I'm like, I don't really meet them, but I hear about that.

So it's important, like, when you're looking to work with somebody, you know, to really feel confident, feel comfortable with them, and feel like this is the right thing, and even if someone has all the degrees and all that and it doesn't feel right, don't do it.

You know what I mean?

Like, listen.

Listen to your deep intelligence.

I think the important thing with doing this work is you got to have a connection with somebody, you know, like anyone's going to crop, you know, help you do this work.

Like, you got to feel connected to them, just like a strength coach or something.

Like, if you're working out with someone you feel connected to, that's way better than, you know, maybe working out with someone you don't.

So.

But this.

This field is so vast now, Todd.

It's so great.

There's so many different specialists, so many different people who do amazing things in this space.

And, you know, if you ever feel uncomfortable, it's important just to be like, hey, this is.

This is out of my league.

Let me refer you to someone who could really help you kick ass in this, you know?

And I tell them, this is who I go to to work on this stuff.

So, like, this is who I go to to work on my marriage and all that kind of stuff.

This person has helped me out in all this space, so I like to talk about it loud and proud and be like, this is the stuff I'm doing with my life.

So if I'm going to refer you to someone.

No, I'm using them in the same way I'm referring them to you, you know?

Hmm.

So you said something really interesting to me, which was the fact that you could basically begin someone's journey through the kind of process of acceptance, or just them hearing about that idea and beginning to kind of unfold what that might mean to them and on how many levels they might need to really, truly accept things to.

To move forward if people, if people are beginning that process of acceptance and they're leaving your talk and now they have a whole bag of things they need to process now, where might they begin?

At home.

You know, some resources, some things, some places to go to be like, okay, you know, Graham just opened a can of worms.

He said some shit that hit me deep.

And now I need to kind of like unpack this, you know, where would they go?

I think like, well, first of all, congratulations in that moment, like once you've started your journey, right, so just start with this everyday thing and we're not going to go solve something like in one day or be like, oh my God, like, you go, thank God this is opened and we're going to start working on this stuff.

So it could mean you're reading books.

You just start checking everything out in the space that helps out because the start of it is it's awareness that activates your ability.

So clearly something hit you that made you like, oh, I'm aware now, right?

So you like, say you became aware of acceptance and you're like, okay, I'm aware now.

That's activated something inside of you, right?

So that thing is active.

And once it's active now, it's just time to kind of check it out all the time, you know?

And so for me, I started with books.

I asked people around me, hey, I need help.

Who would I go talk to?

You know, you just start with that and you just start really, it's curiosity and courage is what this is.

And you just start being curious of, like, what was I holding onto?

I just, just became aware of acceptance.

What the hell have I been holding on to?

And you just start there, right?

And you start your journey and you just start it and you'll go through it and you'll start doing research and you'll find people to read.

And, you know, it gets fun because you're like, oh, who's it?

Like, just however you found me, Todd, you know what I mean?

Like, as it starts to open up, what helps is, hey, it's an everyday practice.

Start with educating yourself, right?

And just go from there.

Just be curious about it.

And then you start and there's a million places to go, you know, but like, once it's activated inside of you, it started like that, that's the moment, like, that's the whole thing.

And you kind of curious and you check it out and you start becoming a student of the game.

So I don't have an exact.

Like, this is what you do, right after that or here's the exact thing.

Yeah.

But your curiosity's opened, so explore that.

And that's.

And that's powerful.

Yeah.

You start to look at yourself as being an explorer, right?

And you go, okay.

All great discoveries come from not knowing.

You can't make a discovery if you already know.

So the fact that you don't know this stuff, fantastic.

Like, the one thing I do know, Todd, is I don't know.

And the fact that I don't know means I can keep discovering every day.

You know, Socrates, it works.

You know what I mean?

Don't know means, like, don't get caught up in stuff that ain't it.

Like, listen deep and find a way to listen.

So for me, it's every day.

So every day I exercise, right?

Every day I exercise because I hear better.

And after I exercise, your mind tends to be a little more quiet.

You tend to hear a little deeper.

And what I'm attempting to do is, after I exercise, I want to hear essentially, my heart.

Not up here, and if I can hear down here, I go serve that, and I follow it.

And that's where the devotion comes in.

That's just an everyday practice.

And if you're like, I don't have time to work out, that's an absolute sign.

You need to do it right?

Because if you think about, say, like, a practice like yoga, and when I say working out, it could be like, take a walk around the block.

Anything, just anything.

And what you'll notice is if you devote yourself to a practice of something physical, it quiets your mind a little bit.

You can hear a little better.

And then when you can hear your heart a little better, now we start to build the skill set to follow it, right?

To, like, follow this thing.

And that's where the mental skills come in.

Oh, I got to be present to hear it.

I got to focus on what's in my control.

I got to not react.

I got to respond.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I got to take a breath and move on, right?

You start working all this stuff to make sure you hear.

And as you do the work today, that's it, you know, and that's what you start doing.

And you just build your practice from there.

And it never ends, you know, there's never, like an end game.

You just keep kind of enjoying the journey and checking it out, and you'll read all the books.

You'll.

You'll find all these philosophers and great, you know, teachers.

And eventually you'll go back thousands of years and you'll.

You'll start to Figure out where this stuff comes from.

And none of this stuff is new.

None of this stuff is like brand new stuff.

It's been around forever.

It's just, you know, whether or not you've been practicing in or what culture came up and did it.

So, yeah, I mean, a great place to start.

There's a great book, the Mindful Athlete by George Mumford.

It's a great place.

I love it.

I love it.

It's a great, great place to start.

Kind of gives you like a little bit of everything in there and that, that should kind of spark your interest a little bit.

Jerry lynch is another great author.

He's written like 30 or 40 books.

Anything by Jerry lynch, the Way of the Champion is a great one to start with.

If you just start with the Way of the champion and the Mindful Athlete, those two are like really, really good.

And they'll give you like a foundation of all this stuff and give you a place to start and practice and yeah, I mean, sheesh, that's a great place to start.

That's perfect.

That's perfect.

And I love the key point for me there was the curiosity because there's a guy named Gaber Mate.

He's like a doctor who's kind of turned into almost like a self regulation guru or I'm not really sure how to describe him, almost a therapist.

But he talks about compassionate inquiry.

So asking yourself things compassionately, not like, what's wrong with me?

But like, you know, hey, what's, what's going on?

What am I feeling?

What's, you know, and so they're changing those, you know, from statements to, to compassionate questions.

And I thought that was like kind of hinting at what you were getting out there too.

You know, I always called it competitive compassion.

Just to put it in a framework so someone knows how hardcore it is.

Like when you're doing this stuff and being compassionate and curious, you are facing fears.

Like that's what they're essentially saying is like instead of trying to force your way through something, you're like, hey, what am I actually afraid of?

What is this?

Eventually you're going to get to death.

You're going to get to like, why am I afraid of dying?

Like that's where it's going to go.

I mean, anything you do afraid of failures, if you keep checking it out, eventually it's like there's a fear of death.

And so if you keep exploring that, it'll take you there, it'll take you there.

And once you start to get there and you're like, okay, what actually dies?

What?

Like, clearly the body comes and goes.

Then you start to explore consciousness, and you start to, you know, check out consciousness a little bit, and you're like, man, seems like consciousness doesn't die ever.

So you go, okay, if I identify with consciousness, is that everlasting life?

I said that to my first teacher one time, and she just did this.

He just put her thumb up, and I was like, okay, got it.

Because I'm like, this body clearly doesn't last forever, right?

Like, no.

Yeah, yeah.

But you're.

But they're like, something does.

And if you can start to figure out what that thing is on your journey.

Yeah, I see a lot of people kind of really open up to a.

To a different level.

Yeah, I love it.

And as you said earlier, it's like when you are at that place, when you find that place, then all of a sudden you're not so worried about what is my purpose.

And now I need to prove myself.

It's just a place of being.

That stuff is like.

It's almost like the sooner you can get through that part of your journey, the better.

Not even better.

I don't mean to say it like that, but, like, whatever you think your first goal is in life, I pray you hit that really quick.

So then you realize that's not it.

And then it's usually what happens after that.

That's when it starts to get real.

Because the first one, you're like, say you had a goal to make a billion dollars, and you make it, and you're like, damn, that.

That didn't do anything for me.

But, like, it drove you your whole life, you know?

And then you get to this big outcome, and you're like, turns out that wasn't it.

Then that can open up a lot of curiosity because you're like, if that wasn't it, well, what is it?

What's the thing?

And that's why most people that we talk about who are like, they usually hit some big goals, then they're like, oh, now I get it.

You know, now I know what it is.

It's not that.

And so that's like a cool place to be, you know, was to be.

Like, it's way beyond me.

It's beyond what I think this is.

And now I'm really curious and courageous, and I just want to go see what this is every day, you know, and kind of.

And be in that space.