Conflict is the gateway to intimacy, and in this episode, Doctor Ray Mitch explores how engaging in healthy dialogue during disagreements can deepen our relationships rather than destroy them. He emphasizes that dialogue is more important than simply achieving a desired outcome, as it fosters understanding and connection between individuals. Throughout the discussion, he addresses the common tendencies to avoid conflict or resort to unhealthy coping strategies, which can lead to resentment and isolation. By focusing on the importance of truth, boundaries, forgiveness, and reconciliation, Doctor Mitch encourages listeners to embrace conflict as an opportunity for growth and intimacy. Join him as he unpacks the dynamics of conflict and offers insights into how we can navigate it constructively in our relationships.

Imagine for a moment that you are a road weary traveler.

You're tired, you're hungry, and wondering if there will ever be a safe place to rest.

You've been told there's an outpost ahead that provides safety information for the road ahead and people who understand what the journey is like.

You keep scanning the horizon, hoping against hope that it will be there.

Then, as you come over a rise in the terrain, you suddenly catch a glimpse of it.

There it stands, beckoning you to come and find the rest you need.

You're moments away from the outpost.

Welcome, everybody, to another edition of the uppost.

I am Doctor Ray Mitch, your host.

Thanks so much for joining me.

It is my distinct pleasure and privilege to spend some time with you during this time that you take out to listen.

And so what we're about.

Let me explain that.

I'll do that each time.

I'm sorry if that bores some of you who have heard it 15,000 times, but what is the outpost?

The outpost is a digital place where we're trying to build bridges back to faith, or even strengthen the bridges of faith that.

That are already built.

And ultimately, what we want to focus on and continue to wrestle with is how to do this with authenticity, to be what we say we are, with grace and truth, and then ultimately with a commitment to being known and knowing other people.

So we're trying to create a space in the larger picture of stained glass international and the outpost.

We're trying to create a space where the doubters and the wounded and the confused and beat up and beat down the bent and bruised who feel like their lives are disappointment to God, can feel accepted enough to know other people and to be known.

And so we seek a place to create, a place where people can actually bump into the biblical Jesus, not as they have told.

Been told he is, but as he really is, and even in being embodied in relationships.

And that's really where, unfortunately, we've been wounded.

And it is also the very place where we can rewrite some old scripts at trying to do things differently.

So pull up a chair, get comfortable, relax.

If.

If that's even appropriate.

If you're driving, my apologies.

You're already seated.

And if you're running, keep running.

But let's.

Let's.

What I want to talk about is the issues that matter in the.

In the world of the outpost.

And as the intro made clear, that we're imagining a digital place where you can come in, you can take the mask off, you can be known as you are without trying to be something you're not.

And try to understand what grace looks like and how it can make a difference in our lives, because I think generally we have got grown, we have despaired of the possibility of it being even present in our lives.

And I think generally, our culture is not really built on grace.

It is built almost entirely on performance and law.

And just what have you done for me lately?

Approach, or a contractual approach to relationships, rather than one that is built on grace.

And so what I want to explore, and what I have been exploring is the nature of the relationships within the context of an outpost.

And the outpost where we gather, we talk about life as it is, not as we, as we think or we've been told it should be, and be able to find the ability to, first of all, first and foremost, own it.

I had an interesting experience this past week.

I have a class, two classes now that actually have a group component to it.

And in those group components, the students have to sit and look at one another and share life, if they so choose.

I can't twist anybody's arm or make them do something they don't want to do.

But I have two different groups.

I have one for the shame and grace class.

I do.

And then I have one that I do for my group leadership and processing class.

But then the third one is the most unique one of all, I think, because it is what you would think is the last place vulnerability would be seen.

And that's in a men's group, young men's group, that we gather every Friday from three to five in the afternoon.

And I will tell you that in the context of that group, it is a shining example of what an outpost can be.

To be able to come in, take our armor off, take our masks off, and be known as we are.

And to find strength and courage and hope by naming whatever it is we're fighting.

It doesn't immediately make it all go away.

It's not really.

It is about that, but it's not really about that, because ultimately we can't make things go away that we don't own or we don't accept exists.

Somewhere along the way, we've gotten this strange conclusion going that if I just don't accept that it exists, then maybe it'll just go away.

And it never does.

It never does.

And so what I have been looking at over the last few weeks is some key dimensions or aspects of relationships.

And this can be what I'm calling in an outpost.

This can be in any relationship, really.

And we looked at the role that truth plays and then we also looked at what about control?

And how does this impact my relationship with other people?

And what efforts am I making to try to manage their perceptions or manage the conclusions they make about me, which ultimately change me to them and change me to the strategy that I have got to control what they think, the conclusions they make, and everything else which takes me farther and farther away from me, because I continue to create an image of who I am, rather than actually be who I am.

And so we looked at that, and then we also take time to talk about boundaries and where that fits into our lives and the nature of that, in terms of what's me and what's not me, what kinds of things are my responsibility and what aren't, and how can I be responsible to somebody without being responsible for them?

All of those sorts of things.

And we looked at four different kind of ways of handling boundaries.

And the people that just go along to get along, and the people that say, so what?

And the people that try to control and manipulate, or finally, the people that say, you know, I don't have a problem, I don't know what you're.

What you're making a big deal out of.

And so we have all sorts of managing strategies, if you will, for handling boundaries.

And then we wonder why we feel so alone and isolated, because we don't know anything about separating ourselves or being clear about who we are and who we're not.

And in a lot of cases, most of the time, a lot of the conversations I've had with, with young people has been, they can tell me what they aren't or who they aren't, but they can't really tell me who they are.

And we.

That's particularly hard when you keep looking for a standard to live up to, rather than discovering the realities of the landscape of your own soul, in your own heart.

The one thing I will say, and in our last newsletter for stained glass International I just sent out a week ago, I talk about in there, about exploring the landscape of our own hearts.

And I spend some time looking at and talking about solitude and silence.

And this is the season right in the life of SGI.

We do two retreats, one in the fall, one the spring, and they are silent retreats.

And it is the place to not only intersect with ourselves, but to hear from God, not because somebody's teaching at us about what we're supposed to believe, but simply by calming and quieting ourselves enough to hear.

And that is what is key in all of this that we're talking about.

So we went on from boundaries.

Then we spent last week talking about forgiveness and repentance and reconciliation.

And I've had a lot of people ask me, so why I, why are you doing, why are you doing forgiveness before what our next topic is?

And there's good reason for it, but there's also, there's also something behind it because most of the time, people will ask me, when I get into dealing with conflict, which is what we're going to be talking about, I tend to forget everything I learned about forgiveness because of the nature of the conflict.

And so the topic for tonight is winning the peace and losing the opportunity for intimacy and conflict.

Is there.

I don't know how to say this.

Well, yeah, I do.

I just don't want to, maybe.

But our, our society, and particularly even in our christian society, we are so conflict averse, it is little wonder to me that there is so many people feeling alone and isolated.

Now you'd say, well, wait a minute.

Why would conflict be related to that?

Because, after all, conflict separates people, right?

No, it doesn't.

And that's what I want to try to unpack for you, because oftentimes we see conflict as knock down, drag out, fur flying, character assassinations, gaslighting and all the other list of things that happen when we are sideways with somebody else or we're experiencing conflict with somebody.

We don't see it as a positive thing.

We don't see it as a constructive thing at all, partly because of the images we oftentimes have, not only maybe from our own families, but also even from movies.

There, there is a movie clip that I show when I, talking about this from Tommy Boy and Chris Farley and David Spader is in it, and they go at it with one another in the clip.

And eventually David Spader picks up a, I think I've got his name, David Spade.

Maybe that's it.

I don't know.

He picks up a two by four and up hits Chris Farley's character upside the head, and it's kind of the end of the conflict.

And then they show up in a restaurant and they're talking to one another and Chris Farley's saying, I don't, you know, I, yeah, you, you've got some pretty good licks in.

And the, the other actor, David Spade, for lack of other quotes here, he says, I thought I hit you in the shoulder, not the face.

And Chris Farley turns his face and there's literally a bruise across the side of his face.

He said, I don't feel it in my shoulder here.

And I don't feel it anywhere else, but I feel it right across here on the side of my face.

And what does the other person say?

But it looks good to me.

And that's oftentimes how we go about handling conflict because we see it in such a threatening way.

Now, I am not going to sit here and tell you that conflict feels wonderful.

I love to dive into conflict every chance I get.

No, no.

But at the same time, if we are held hostage by conflict, we will never be known.

You see, there are two fundamental assertions I want to make about conflict.

The first one is this, is that dialogue is more important than our outcomes.

See, we don't see con.

We see conflict as destructive to a relationship.

Therefore we do everything we can to avoid it.

But in the one instance in conflict, it is the one time where people errhe the things that make them different from the other person.

And if we see that those differences are fatal to a relationship, then you better start thinking again.

Because ultimately the warp and woof and the rich texture of a relationship is not built on how similar we are.

It is built on how different we are.

And if we're spending all of our time doing everything we can to hide and kind of soft pedal, the difference is because we have this false belief that similarity leads to intimacy.

When it doesn't, it doesn't.

Just because I'm similar to somebody doesn't mean I feel any closer to them.

And in the early stages of a relationship, usually, yes, that is the case.

The two people are oftentimes looking for things that they have in common.

That's the initial building blocks of every relationship.

But sooner or later we are not going to see eye to eye.

And it's at that moment that you actually get a view of what matters to me and what is actually what makes me different from you.

And either I'm going to say you being different than me as a deal breaker, I'm out.

Or to say, I want to understand.

I want to understand.

The first assertion about conflict is that dialogue is more important than just where what we're trying to accomplish, because the dialogue is what is makes for depth in a relationship.

Now the second assertion is this.

Conflict is the gateway to intimacy.

Now, you may think you are out of your blooming mind.

Conflict has nothing to do with intimacy.

But what I have seen over and over again, when people and relationships and couples have conflict and they work it through and they stick with it to the end and maybe land not not land with.

Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

No, we don't have to agree to disagree.

We can just disagree.

We seem so Bentley on not, well, removing the dissonance that disagreement brings because we think it's such a threat when I don't believe it is.

I can disagree with somebody.

I don't have to be, as the old saying goes, I don't have to be disagreeable, but I can disagree.

We can have a different point of view.

That's okay.

That is okay.

Now there is something I ran across that I want to read, y'all.

And I think it's significant in this discussion because the author says the mark of true community, of true biblical relationships is not the absence of conflict.

Rather it is the presence of a reconciling spirit.

Many of us assume, the author continues, many of us assume that there is something inherently wrong or a miss in a relationship that has disagreements or conflicts.

But that is really isn't, that really isn't the case.

All, and I'm adding, but they say all relationships will have conflict.

I would add all healthy relationships will have conflict.

The relationships that have no conflict in them.

And this is, I'm taking a bunny trail off of what the author just said, the relationships that have no conflict in them.

Somebody is lying or somebody is covering up what their true feelings are because they are convinced that if conflict arises, they will lose the other person and they want to run that risk.

And so what we have to move toward is learning about what I just talked about last time, and that is forgiveness and repentance and reconciliation.

The lack of those things is fatal to christian community and to our relationships.

That's what the issue is.

And that's why this is so important.

It is also important that I talked about forgiveness and repentance and reconciliation first, before we get here.

And so what I want to talk about a little bit is how do we typically approach conflict?

Right.

And one of the problems we have, which I alluded to earlier, is that we tend to caricature conflict.

In other words, the definition of that is to represent or imitate in an exaggerated and distorted manner.

You've probably gone, maybe you haven't, but I have.

When I was a kid, we used to go up to Wisconsin Dells.

I grew up in northwest Indiana.

We'd go up to Wisconsin Dells and there were caricaturists, artists on the street, and you could sit down and they'd do a caricature of your face.

Whatever the prominent features were of your face, they would exaggerate them.

Now, no doubt we have seen caricatures of Jay Leno or of David Letterman with the gap in his teeth, or probably the characters of our favorite sitcom or rom.com, i guess that's what they're called.

Now, we've probably seen a caricature of those.

And that is the very thing that gets in the way of us being willing to engage in healthy conflict, is the caricature of it, which is usually violent and destroys relationship.

Now, the other thing we can do, which I think is the prevailing approach, is just avoid it, is that when things come up that I don't see the same as the other person.

I just don't.

I just avoid it.

It's not.

And we have these wonderful ways of rationalizing it and saying, it's not that big of a deal.

I'm not going to make a, you know, a mountain out of a molehill.

Let's just keep moving.

And by avoiding it, it's a little bit like brushing it under the rug.

And every time I do that, I have to get a bigger rug because it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

And before too long, we have a well of resentment sitting underneath that thing because we kept avoiding it over and over and over again.

Now, there are also the people that just squash it.

I mean, or they gaslight and say, I don't know what you're talking about.

It's not that big of a deal, blah, blah, blah.

And we can do that, or the people that just can keep the peace and say, smooth it all over, it's okay.

And ultimately, over time, if I keep saying something's okay that it isn't, it will still come back to bite me.

It is a poison to the relationship.

Just like I mentioned a minute ago is the lack of healthy conflict is fatal to christian community because we don't ever get to learn how to engage in forgiveness, in repentance and reconciliation.

We don't get any practice if we don't have any conflict.

So my question to you is this is, how do you tend to, quote unquote, fight?

Now, the funny thing about it is that with conflict, we have our own words for it.

Like that word that I just used.

We call it fighting when, you know, you could call it, well, it's a heated discussion or we're having some kind of just disagreement or dialogue or whatever.

But our caricatures are found by the words we tend to use.

It's pretty unavoidable, really.

All you have to do is look at it.

I mean, we look at it even in when people start feeling emotions.

And what do they say?

I'm falling apart or I'm having a meltdown or a nervous breakdown.

See, what we don't understand is that our words frame reality for us.

It isn't reality, but we frame it that way.

And guess what we will react to?

We will react to what the frame actually is.

And so the question is, how do you tend to have conflict with people?

What do you tend to do?

Now, one of the key questions I think we have to consider is what is your ultimate goal and what do you want?

When, when somebody says something that offends you or hurts your feelings or whatever and you choose to say something about it, what is your ultimate goal for doing that?

What do you want from the other person?

And in a lot of cases, we have such a problem solving approach to the whole thing that I say I bring it up so they will apologize and then we will be good.

So now I go fishing for a response from the other person.

When they don't give it to me, then what happens?

Then what happens?

Because now I've set the contract in place, they have violated the contract, and I'm going to get even more upset as time goes along.

And so what is your ultimate goal and what do you want?

Are you focused on keeping the relationship intact or are you focused on what I want to come out of bringing this issue up in a relationship?

So one of the ways to think about conflict is about in terms of your goal.

And if your goal, for example, if your goal is about for outcome, then you will have, tend to have a win or lose approach to it.

And that's what comes out of that.

If I am going to bring something else up, I have got to win.

And it sacrifices the relationship in service to whatever my desired outcome is.

And so I tend to see it as either I win or I lose this battle.

Now, nothing ever, and I'm not overstating it, nothing ever good comes out of this approach to winning and losing, because if you lose, then what?

You pull out of the relationship, it doesn't work.

What?

And if you have a string of losses, then what?

And see, again, we have to think about what is it do I want in bringing this issue up with the person that I'm in conflict with?

And so win or lose, the goal there is for my desired outcome now is there's another one.

There's another one that is all about outcome.

And that other one is withdrawal.

And the thing about people with withdrawal is if you go back three, two weeks, three weeks and listen to the podcast about control and control and trust and all of those things I tend to talk about.

What you will find is that control is all about outcome and withdrawal is control.

Now let me explain.

If I am in a relationship or I am in a conflict with somebody, and it is starting to dawn on me that I'm not going to get what I want or I'm going to get less than I want, and I say, enough is enough.

I'm out of here.

And I go out the door, slam it behind me, and guess what?

The conflict is over.

Because you can't have a conflict with one person.

The interesting thing about that is, is that something that we actually have a phrase for in psychology, it's called terminal control.

I exercise control by terminating the situation that I am not going to get what I seek to get.

And so withdrawal is about outcome.

Win or lose is about outcome.

And I either I get it or I don't, or.

And if I don't, I'm going to get out of.

And that's about outcome.

Now, what about focusing on keeping the relationship intact?

And there are two more strategies that we can engage in to keep the relationship intact.

One is called compromise.

And compromise is kind of a horse trading sort of idea because I'll say, well, I'll go 50% on mine.

I if, if, if you come 50% on your yours.

Now, our relationship stays intact.

We're each having to give something away under a compromise.

And quite honestly, compromise can be an intermediate step to help us get to the most desired one that I'll talk about here in a second.

So, compromise keeps the relationship intact, and we both make a sacrifice on behalf of the relationship.

The issue is, is that this is not the kind of covenant relationship God calls us to in our marriages or in significant relationships.

A covenant is both.

People are both giving 100%.

It's not, I give 50, you give 50, because that means then we're equal when we're not.

Because we are patrolling what the other person is actually giving and determining whether or not it's actually 50% or not.

So compromise keeps the relationship, at least ostensibly, keeps it intact.

Okay?

And then the last one that is focused on keeping relationship intact is yielding.

And this is one that a lot of people do.

They just bow out.

And so what they end up saying is, oh, never mind.

It wasn't that big of a deal, and I'm sorry.

I made a big stink out of it and I shouldn't have done it.

And I don't know what I was thinking, and it's fine when it really probably isn't.

But they are standing in fear of losing that relationship, and they don't want to risk that.

And so they simply yield.

Now, like I said, yielding has offspring, and the offspring of yielding is resentment, because we keep submerging and burying our real feelings about what is really going on.

And we don't bring it up because we want to manage keeping that relationship intact.

And that's where the problem typically arises eventually.

I have seen so many relationships where one person yields, the other person thinks everything's great, it's going along well, we get along well.

We don't fight that much.

Hey, it's all good.

So we've created a picture of intimacy when in fact, we don't have it at all, because one person is burying it all.

And over time, and maybe even eventually, Mount Vesuvius goes off.

That's the mountain that buried Pompeii.

The great volcano goes off.

An explosion occurs, and all sorts of collateral damage occurs to both people involved.

Also, if there are kids or anyone else that is kind of orbiting the relationship.

So yield has an initial look of being in a good strategy, but it can, over time, corrode the relationship.

Now, let it be.

Let me.

Let me make really clear.

There are times that I will choose to yield and not create a contract.

But I choose to yield out of deference to the other person that I care about.

This is not an ongoing pattern.

If it was, that's what I'm describing, an ongoing pattern.

Not one that is periodically, I don't know how else to call it, where I choose to yield to the other person.

It's called self sacrifice.

And there is a perfectly appropriate place in any relationship for one person to sacrifice on behalf of the other.

But I would suggest that sacrifice is not the same as this thing that I'm referring to as yielding because we're giving in on one and the other.

Self sacrifice is based on a very active choice to give on behalf of the other person.

And so we have four different strategies in handling conflict.

We've got those that are focused almost entirely on outcome, which would be the win or lose or the withdraw.

And then we have two that are focused on keeping the relationship intact.

And that would be compromise and yield.

Okay, now, so far, so good.

Hopefully.

The question is, is that all there is?

And the answer is no, actually, win and lose.

Win or lose is never good.

It's always damaging to relationships.

It always is.

Usually it comes with a combination of yield and withdrawal as well.

But it rarely is helpful to the people involved.

And so, therefore, that one I am going to leave out.

But there is one more that I want to talk about, and that is resolution.

And resolution requires dialogue.

It requires a commitment to move toward the other person, to find out where they're coming from.

Not to make my point, but to simply understand.

Resolution is not necessarily a goal to be achieved, but it is an outcome that occurs with two people that are committed to understanding where the other person is coming from.

And so resolution, if you break it apart, it means to resolve something.

So resolution is built on dialogue.

And dialogue is the contribution we make to the strength of our relationship.

And the longer we tend to have that dialogue, the more we begin to find that we may have more in common than we thought, because we tend, with all these other strategies, we tend to interact with one another in info bytes, I mean, just bytes of information, not longer discussions or longer explanations of what is actually going on.

And so resolution is harder, and it creates anxiety, it creates ambiguity, it creates uncertainty.

And that's exactly why people don't do it, because the uncertainty of what's going to happen is so overwhelming that they would rather just yield than deal with the uncertainty that comes with the ongoing dialogue and conversation around what's going on.

And that same thing is true about a lot of these other strategies.

Most of these strategies are to get it over as soon as I possibly can.

It's not meant to contribute to the health and breadth of.

Of the relationship.

So when I said earlier that losing the opportunity for intimacy, conflict is the thing that reveals not only the depth of love the other person might have for me, because they're sticking with me through this, but I also see glimpses or maybe even grand pictures of grace that are afforded me in that conversation.

That changes how I look at things, because in a lot of the.

Particularly in a win and lose, the win and lose one, whoever it is I'm in pitched in this battle with, they are my enemy.

And withdrawal is retreat.

So I'm still retreating from an enemy, but in dialogue and in willingness to hear where the other person is coming from and understand the backstory in the context of what contributes to where we are right now, that is where resolution comes.

And it's almost like you turn a corner and we're there, we're not really looking for it.

We didn't know a corner was coming, but we turn the corner and it's there.

And that's ultimately what resolution is about.

Because in resolution, we handle truth well.

We don't beat somebody over the head with big t truth.

Like I mentioned in the first kind of first episode that was devoted to these.

And we are respectful of the little t truth that's unique to the other person.

We are respectful of that and want to find out about that.

So truth is respected and handled carefully and well in service to deepening our relationship.

Freedom and choice are accentuated and encouraged in a resolution boundaries allowing other people to have their own emotions without making them mine or personalizing them to me.

And I'm.

I'm willing to forgive.

I have a stance of forgiveness.

And, and, and don't forget, I also have a stance for repentance that I may have a part to play, and I need to own it for what it is.

Not excuse it, not give, not point fingers at somebody else, but own it for what it is.

And what I want.

The reason I go through all of those is what I want you to begin to see, is that these building blocks all build on one another.

It is really hard to have resolution.

If I am going to belittle and berate and shame the little t truth of the other person, we're not going to get there the same way with controlling people versus trusting them and allowing them the freedom to choose, even if they choose differently than I want them to.

I might actually say they have the freedom to choose wrongly, because ultimately, if I give somebody the freedom to choose wrongly, they also have the freedom to choose rightly.

And so that is the same case.

So each one of these are interlocked in such a way that make wading into this what seems like a shark infested tank, wading into it in order to come out on the other side with a far greater level of intimacy, a far greater level of understanding, and maybe even an appreciation for the grace and love and truth that's being offered me and that I'm trying to offer the other person.

But because we don't persist and move through it together, it's far, let me say it this way, is far easier to fight a battle with an adversary than it is with an ally.

That's really the bottom line.

And so conflict of, literally, is the gateway to intimacy.

It is the crowning glory of all of these other dimensions that I've been talking about all along.

And so let me leave you with this one final thought.

It's from Max Locado, well known author, christian author.

He's a pastor.

I believe it's.

I think he's in Dallas.

I could be wrong, but he said, conflict is inevitable, but combat is optional, and that is the summation of a lot of what I am talking about and why this is so vitally important.

Because if we're going to be conflict averse, then we are also going to be intimacy averse because they are connected.

And again, I am not talking about the fur flying and all of that kind of conflict.

I'm talking about just having a disagreement about something not big, but we feel all those same feelings as if something very, very dangerous is happening in our relationships.

So conflict is inevitable, but combat is optional, and that's what we seek to find, and it is a key characteristic of christian community and ultimately healthy relationships.

So that's it for tonight.

Thanks so much for joining me.

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Amazon is the same way, so you can find us there.

Unscripted collected wisdom of life living in sorrow.

We'll have another episode coming out.

It is, as the name implies, unscripted.

I sit down, fire up the mic, and I usually have something to talk about.

Not only my own journey through sorrow after losing a dear friend back in March, but also just on life and living and what that actually looks like.

So you can find us on three different social media outlets.

Instagram, at SGI International.

I think that's not right.

I think it's SGde underscore International.

That would be correct.

On Instagram, Facebook, we are at Stained Glass International.

At stained Glass International and then LinkedIn, doctor Mitch.

Hopefully we will eventually get a page devoted to SGI.

So listen to the podcast, subscribe, and follow us.

That raises our profile if you're interested in partnering with us.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

We are still trying to grow our scholarship fund for people that can't afford to go on a silent retreat.

So all of your gifts are tax deductible.

And we are at a 501 C three organization, according to the IR's, so you can get a write off if you're interested in any of the gifts that you give.

And there's merchandise, you can check it out on the SGI store.

There's window stickers, books, books that I've read, written, not read written, the newest one being seasons of our grief.

And you can just, if you want to do snail mail and maybe send us a check, you're welcome to do that as well.

So thanks so much for joining me tonight.

It has been a pleasure to have you along for the ride.

And I will see you next week.

I will be here.

And until then, love you later.

Bye.