Are you ready to revolutionize your Credit Union with cutting-edge AI? How can Pankaj Jain's expertise in technology and entrepreneurship transform your digital lending?

Welcome to Credit Union Conversations, where we unpack the future of finance with industry trailblazers. Join host Mark Ritter as he dives deep with Pankaj Jain, exploring AI innovations from Synaptic to Algebrik, building trust amid  legacy systems, and overcoming fear through continuous learning to attract Gen Z credit union members. Pankaj Jain, a serial entrepreneur whose journey from India to the heart of New York has fueled game-changing tech for credit unions, shares insights on innovation, relationship-building, and staying ahead in a rapidly evolving world. Whether you're navigating digital transformation or seeking growth strategies, this episode is packed with actionable wisdom. Let's dive in!

IN THIS EPISODE:

• (00:00) Intro: Meet Pankaj
• (03:13) Pankaj describes his early entrepreneurship and his drive for Technology
• (04:57) Pankaj recounts moving to New York and pivoting Synaptic to serve Credit Unions
• (08:10) Algebrik, started in August 2024, to build Digital ecosystems for Credit Unions
• (13:50) Pankaj shares what he has learned over the years and emphasizes Trust as key in Credit Unions, built through consistent engagement
• (19:27) Reflecting on AI discussions in 2014, before ChatGPT, facing cynicism but building credibility for Synaptic’s technology 
• (29:14) Pankaj advocates digital tools to attract younger generations to the credit unions
• (34:35) Pankaj stresses the democratization of AI Technology to avoid mergers and maintain charters 
• (39:55) Pankaj suggests the importance of education and learning about current and future technology

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• AI and digital technology are critical for credit unions to modernize lending, reduce reliance on legacy systems, and attract younger members by meeting them on mobile platforms with seamless, paperless processes.
• Building trust through consistent, personal engagement is essential for entrepreneurship in the credit union space, as Pankaj Jain demonstrates with Synaptic and Algebrik, emphasizing relationships over transactional sales.
• Overcoming the fear of change through continuous learning enables credit unions to adopt AI solutions, as Pankaj Jain advocates, ensuring that smaller institutions can compete and grow without merging, thereby preserving their mission and charter.

RESOURCE LINKS:

Mark Ritter - Website

Mark Ritter - LinkedIn

Pankaj Jain - LinkedIn

Algebrik AI - Website

Pankaj LD Jain - Website

Contact Pankaj

BIOGRAPHIES:

PJ is the Founder and CEO of Algebrik. Algebrik, headquartered in New York City, is the world's 1st cloud-native, AI-powered digital-era Loan Origination Platform (LOS), designed for the next generation of members/consumers.

KEYWORDS: AI, Credit Unions, Pankaj Jain, Technology, Entrepreneurship, Travel, New York, Synaptic, Algebrik, Digital, Lending, Members, Trust, Legacy, Systems, Fear, Learning, Loan Originating Platform, LOS

All the AI Talk you ever Wanted with Pankaj Jain

[00:00:56] So I wanted to bring somebody that I've gotten to know [00:01:00] over the last few years on to talk just about this and the AI conversion and, and, and tidal wave that is coming up. So joining me today is PJJ. How are you, pj?

[00:01:18] Mark Ritter - Host: I am doing great, but not as you, not as good as you because.

[00:01:52] Pankaj Jain: No, I've been to, in just last 12 days, I've been to three countries and seven cities over 25,000 [00:02:00] miles.

[00:02:16] Mark Ritter - Host: I just get exhausted sometimes when I travel and dealing with different time zones.

[00:02:26] Pankaj Jain: No, I think that I found a mojo to figure out how to relax while traveling. I think I've been doing it for 25 years, so it's become like my second life and I just figured out how to make, how to take a rest between travel and you know, all of that. So when you love something, you actually don't get tired.

[00:02:53] Mark Ritter - Host: So enough of the travel channel, even though I could talk about traveling and vacations and airports or [00:03:00] about the next three hours, but I think people would turn off.

[00:03:12] Pankaj Jain: So, uh, so thank you for that question. So I'm gonna start from little early age. So I'm originally an Indian from India. I was born in a middle class family. You know, we had means to feed ourselves, but not as, as much as I have today.

[00:03:53] And that's how I used to make money because my family is from a community which is like a hundred [00:04:00] percent entrepreneurs. And if you look at that community out of a hundred billion years of from India, I would say 80 to 90 are from that community. So I'm actually. Born in that community, you know, drank that water.

[00:04:33] And then I've, I've, I've done my engineering as a trade. I've always remained very close to technology. So originally I started my journey as a programmer and I was awarded Best Technical Person Award, and then went on to join Citibank or a company of Citibank, which became later spinned off as independent company and got sold off to Oracle for $4.1 billion for 80% of the company.

[00:05:19] And in 2016, when I was part of a company called ge, that was, uh, again, a spinoff of GE called Genack. And that's where I met my co-founder, another Pankaj, uh, whose, whose name is Pankaj. I call him pk. He and I decided that because the technology is not democratized and the computing power is available on your palm more than it was available in a house full of room, we said, okay, let's use the technology and see how do we help people improve their lives, especially in the financial lives.

[00:06:09] So we did get a lot of banks as our clients, large banks, but it wasn't, you know, sort of fulfilling to us because our objective was to use the technology to really help the communities and people. Rather than just sitting in the labs and you know, getting too much time to get deployed and getting in political member jumbo.

[00:06:54] So we were all shut down because I'm, I'm a guy who actually likes to meet people in person, take them out [00:07:00] for drinks and dinner and get to know them better at the personal level. And I'm very good at, you know, building personal relationship. So I was shut down from travel and I had to do all of that on Zoom call, but we did lots and lots of meetings that year.

[00:07:34] So in that journey, mark, when I was meeting C-Suite like yourself and CEOs and chief lending officers and chief experience officers of lots of, lots of great union across the country. They were telling me that pj, you know, we are not happy with our LOSI know that you built this whole decisioning platform.

[00:08:10] So I started ELRICK exactly one year back on, on August 20th. So we just celebrated our first anniversary yesterday from the time of incorporation. And we've been operational for last 10 months. And in that ma 10 months mark, I have achieved so much what I was able to achieve in synaptic in four years, I've been able to achieve here in four months.

[00:08:53] It must be good, and they sort of trust me. So I think I've earned that trust, you know, in last six years and that has helped me crunch the time [00:09:00] from four years to four months. To achieve what we have achieved in algebraic. So that's, that's what I'm doing today. I'm like totally a hundred percent ker focused on building algebraic and help credit unions get onto the digital ecosystem so that they can, you know, get new members, new Gen Zs and digital natives and grow their membership, their loan portfolio, and also reduce their average member age from 53 to 43.

[00:09:49] Oh, I'm not too sure about this. Moving to America, living in America full time.

[00:10:14] Mark Ritter - Host: But

[00:10:15] Mark Ritter - Host: heard of a lot of people who learn English just by watching TV shows and movies, and that's how they learn the cult.

[00:10:35] So I learned English as my second language in my, throughout my schooling and my college. So I knew how to speak English, but fascinated by American culture and most importantly, the American dream, and knowing how the entrepreneurs. From all over the world have come here and built like financial lives and did innovations and help the society, not just for Americans, but also all over the world.

[00:11:18] But finally my dream come, came true when Citibank put me here. So when I landed in New York. And the reason why I'm here, mark, because I'm a guy who's a hustler. I love the energy around me. People do vacation in New York City. I do vacation in suburb and live in the city. So I'm like completely opposite.

[00:11:54] So for me to start a company at the age of 50, it's not a joke because most people will put [00:12:00] up my their feet and retire and drink beer on a ock all day. When I said no, I'm gonna do, start another company and take it to IPO and probably get a picture, click in front of Naec. So I actually love the energy of New York within like two blocks where I live.

[00:12:21] Mark Ritter - Host: that's, that. That's great. I love visiting New York and you would've had a much different American lifestyle if you would've went to Purdue than, than in New York City.

[00:13:01] Or 20 years ago. What, what's really that, that lesson that you give people when they come and ask you about starting a business or that trick that you've learned to, to over the years?

[00:13:25] So let's start from my, you know, zero contact in credit union world. As you know, mark, that the large banking industry or large banking institution work very differently than the credit union movement industry. It's completely different. Somebody who has not experienced credit union movement or not been there long enough, they will not be able to even appreciate that because you cannot have a Chase or a city or Wells Fargo or Bank of America at the same table if you're discussing best practices.

[00:14:18] I think it's very different of serving credit unions, which are community based and in the heartland of America. In different counties where you know, people are underserved or people are, you know, not so well off and their financial life is not what it is in the Wall Street, it's very different. So let me start with what I learned in the credit union world.

[00:14:59] So as [00:15:00] people come to me and ask me, so I say, look, you have to tell me that. What is the market or what is the space you are trying to serve? Because I will have to give you different advice. So I get this an analogy that in banking or generally financial services, which is more money center banks or you know, capital markets or Wall Street, you could actually do a Navy Seal type of deal or build a transactional relationship because people there are always thinking that this vendor or a partner or entrepreneur is always coming out to fleece us.

[00:15:55] You cannot earn it quickly. It needs to be developed and built over time, and that [00:16:00] can only happen when you're seen. On a constant basis, meeting people and other people talking about it. And you are not just saying things, but you're walking the talk. And you have to be seen as delivering overdelivering under promise, over delivering.

[00:16:32] I see that a lot of entrepreneurs are trying, now that I'm making it popular on LinkedIn, I have like 21,000 in, you know, connections and everybody's seeing that. It looks like PJ's having fun. He's building all these connections, building different companies. So I'm inspiring people, but I also tell them guys that if you're trying to do a transactional type of relationship, if you show up two, two times a year, not meeting people in person, you don't have enough trust built out and don't have enough people talking about it.[00:17:00]

[00:17:17] And the reason why is that most people come from the banking background and try to replicate that strategy, which is more of a Navy SEAL transactional strategy. It doesn't work in the credit union. It is like courses for courses, so people have to think about it. So I give them different advice, but I think if I knew that credit union is so sweet and the people are so nice, I don't think I would've wasted my previous 10 years in the banking world.

[00:17:49] Mark Ritter - Host: You have done a tremendous amount of good in a very short time and. I always [00:18:00] now, now from my side, I am a Qso, CEO, and we deal with about 110 credit unions nationwide.

[00:18:51] And hire some outsource people to get this done. Let's do it. H how do, how do you think this will shake? You know, I, I, [00:19:00] there there is it, it's all, I almost look at it like search engines. In the nineties there used to be so many options in search engines and then it ships funneled down and then the, you be, have become a champion.

[00:19:26] Pankaj Jain: Yeah. I think it's, uh, it's a very interesting question. I, I would say that when I was starting my synaptic journey in the credit union space, I think I would've faced a similar, uh, I would've faced a similar roadblock or the credit union executives would've faced a similar dyna dilemma.

[00:20:04] Because if you are really a snake oil seller, it'll show up, you know, very quickly, which you're trying to just get onto the band bandwagon or a, or a fashion. Trying to make more money very quickly. So Mark, as I said, that Synaptic was founded in 2014, and when 2014, we obviously did not come to Credit Union, but we started talking about ai, you know, 11 years back then today, and AI has been made famous by Chad GPTA couple of years back when the chat GPT was launched, which was seven, eight years into it when I was already talking about ai then.

[00:20:39] Mark Ritter - Host: I think up, up until chat, GPT, when somebody said AI to me, I thought of science fiction movies.

[00:21:02] You know, sometimes that could work for you. Sometimes that could work against you. 'cause many products have advanced products have come in the market or platform, come in the market. But they were ahead of the time and people did not understand the utility of it and they flop. So I think that I would say that those initial four, five years before we got into focus on the credit union movement, we were also seen as with cynicism and with doubts and dilemma.

[00:21:57] We actually try to understand [00:22:00] the product market fit and also try to understand whether it is solving the real problem, which is clouding the industry or becoming the growth impediment. So we were not trying to be something like a marketing tool which sits on top of, top of something on top of something and just try to write an email.

[00:22:40] 'cause they were using technology. So, so what we did is that before we started talking about the product, we started learning about the people and their problem. So I had done like 600, 700 meetings that year, even though it was Zoom meetings, but we were even more productive 'cause I was able to do three, four meetings in a day versus traveling and able [00:23:00] to do only one meeting.

[00:23:24] Now, I know Mark Litter, I know Floyd Drum, I know Michelle Dean. I know what a, what her kids are doing, what, you know, what, what life she has been, she has been to death page has been to this, what is our agenda with the full credit union. So I actually know and invested and understand the people, and people appreciate that.

[00:24:03] Sometimes it's not even connecting on what I'm doing. You know, they're asking me basic questions, which they can actually learn by little bit. Looking on my LinkedIn because my whole life is on LinkedIn, and do the research and then try and connecting with me at the personal level and see what is PJ's ambitions, what are his challenges, what is he trying to do to achieve a lja break?

[00:24:48] You have to consistently show up. So when you say you're gonna show up, whether it takes a plane, whether it takes a boat ride or a car ride. If you say that you're gonna do it or you're gonna show up, you have to show up. Most [00:25:00] people get cold feet last minute. They would make excuses, move the meeting to a Zoom meeting or whatever.

[00:25:25] He never a snake, snake on seller. So I think that people don't spend that much time and energy in learning about people and their problems and going there.

[00:25:55] If, if there is some, if I feel that [00:26:00] you personally wrote a message to me or have some connection to what I have done, where you're sending a message to me, I'll respond back. And, and you're probably the same, but I, I feel like the more active I get, the worse it becomes and the more I have to have that funnel go through.

[00:26:49] Yeah. So there are method you can deploy and there are now tools which can actually filter that for you. So I've deployed all those tools, but you're absolutely right that 90, 95% of the people are just [00:27:00] not looking at or making an effort. That is the reason why they're not even successful, because they don't get the responses.

[00:27:25] So I absolutely agree with you, but unfortunately, it's like a necessary evil right now because everybody's here, like, you know, billions of people. So if you're really trying to build that, and in our case, mark, believe it or not, it has worked magic. I don't think I would've been able to achieve what I achieved in synaptic or even in Eja.

[00:27:56] Mark Ritter - Host: So I was at a conference this week and we had [00:28:00] a speaker on ai. Mm-hmm. And as I looked at the speaker, I looked at myself and I looked over the conference, I realized.

[00:28:40] 12 months and this is something that we need to solve. Tell me a little bit about your thoughts on the aging of the credit unions. You know, my, my, my 20-year-old son and 23-year-old daughter have credit union counts, and [00:29:00] neither of them have ever been in a physical credit union branch. So tell me a little bit about your thoughts on how.

[00:29:14] Pankaj Jain: Yeah, so, you know, interestingly enough, I was at the dinner table, uh, just two days back in Austin and at a CU Strategic Growth Conference, and this Linda, I'm not gonna name it, but leader of the Credit Union was saying that, uh, youngest person on their board is 75 and the oldest person is 92.

[00:30:00] So one of the reasons why we started L Gbra Mark was when in my journey at Synaptic, when I talked to these 2,500 leaders, I'm talking about now, my speed dial, everybody said the same thing, you know, apart from all the Callahan reporting and all of that. And the reason why they cited is that there is not enough digital tools available because, as you rightly said, they're 23 years old and 20 years old.

[00:30:50] They are more into giving. Not that earlier generation was not, but I think that they are associating themselves. If you ask them to jump through the hoops of visiting a branch, deal with the [00:31:00] paperwork, wait for three days to get a loan application approved, and another five days to get it funded in the bank account.

[00:31:24] For example, the Citibank's marketing budget is over a billion dollar. If you total up the asset size of all credit union, it is lower than Chase's asset size. So the scale is completely different. So the credit unions will not have 5,000 million dollars capital investment required to build AI technology or digital tools, which are required to the MA to match the levels of what these fintechs or big banks or new banks have.

[00:32:20] The reason, my thoughts on this is that this can only be achieved by providing the digital tools to be able to open an account digitally, end to end, without any paperwork involved, without visiting the branch, without calling someone. This is required even for the loan origination, whether it's point of sale.

[00:32:57] There are this technology to check the [00:33:00] driver's license match with your, you know, selfie. There are technology to do video, KYC, this technology to agent tki. Now, we have used our platform, which, and actually do the task on behalf of younger members. Your lenders so that they don't have to fill the information, which is not required.

[00:33:40] Because the technology is holding it up. The last innovation Mark was 26 years back. I'm not gonna name the company, but everything else is 30, 40, 50 years old.

[00:34:09] But we're finally seeing choices into the marketplace. And I think it, you said you hit it on right. Perfect. When you said, you know, you have $150 million credit union, and maybe it's the management, maybe it's the board, but people need to realize this is accessible today. This is not only for a $6 billion credit union.

[00:34:58] They're not even coming to the table [00:35:00] to have a discussion. But I suggest that if they come with an open mind. Work with a partner who's reliable, has, has standing in the industry. I think people like us can make it work because what we are trying to say is that if we really democratize the technology in the true sense, and, you know, anything, if you look at from the, you know, first industrial revolution, the reason why humans have been able to make the progress, what they've been able to make is because the technology has been democratized and the technology has become cheaper and cheaper, not more expensive and expensive.

[00:35:53] Mark Ritter - Host: Do you think it's just a fear based. Or that that's holding them back? [00:36:00] Or is it just percept that, that they don't understand? They haven't seen it. Maybe they don't go to all the conferences. What, what, what do you think is just legitimately holding them? And, and I'll be candid, is it the board that is just nervous about having this conversation?

[00:36:26] Pankaj Jain: So, so people are actually not saying no, they are just moving or walking 12 feet out from wherever the word AI is written. So we are, don't even get to the point of hearing yes or no because there's no conversation.

[00:36:57] For example, when I ordered a Uber [00:37:00] in, uh, Vegas, three weeks back, a driver's less car showed up. I think that I was fearful to take that car, so I canceled the car and order the one with the driver. But now I have now devoted myself to learn this technology to say how safe it is, and having conversation.

[00:37:34] So I say that if I just compare myself, you know, here versus learning, I might be fearful, but I'm not saying I'm not gonna learn about that because eventually it's gonna happen whether I like it or not. So I'll have to get into that or I'll be obsolete. 'cause there is no driver, full car will be available.

[00:38:16] If somebody would've come to me and wanted me to do demo or have an education session or meet me at the booth or even the conference, it's not gonna cost you anything. I might, I might feed you a drink or give you my coolest swag, but, you know, so I think that it, and the board obviously is not helping, right?

[00:38:57] Mark Ritter - Host: And it's not that dissimilar from my [00:39:00] world in business lending where people say, well, we don't have the knowledge base, or I don't understand. But what I always tell them is, your members are getting a business loan. Your members are doing this, whether you like it or not. They're just doing it through somebody else.

[00:39:51] But that's not really what's gonna happen, I don't believe at all.

[00:40:20] It has always happened whether it was steam engine or whether it was internet, but I think that people who embrace learning and upgrading their skills. I think they are able to move the mountains, including their board. So some, so think about it, that's $150 million credit union. I have to give kudos to the leadership, which is CEO, VP of Lending and COO, that they were able to convince their board that this is the technology which is gonna move us forward and, and being able to educate them with our help.

[00:41:07] So if credit unions, uh, want to make sure that they're growing and the boards want to make sure their credit unions are growing. I think they have no choice but to embrace. Hopefully, you know, with all the voices which are promoting this, you know, we'll see some movement on that. But it, I hate to see about 150, uh, or more.

[00:41:37] Mark Ritter - Host: well. Thank you for your time today, and I think it's important that people go to where the ball is going instead of where the ball has been.

[00:42:08] Pankaj Jain: So we are everywhere. We are on LinkedIn. Uh, you find your search box Jerick ai.

[00:42:31] Mark Ritter - Host: And we'll make sure to put all the contact information in the show notes as well. So thank you for joining us today.

[00:43:05] So thank you very much and we will talk to you soon. Thank you, mark. Thank you for having me. Bye-bye. Thank you.