Struggling to cut through the noise and get noticed as a photographer? In this episode, Pat Miller sits down with acclaimed celebrity portrait photographer Ian Spanier to reveal proven strategies to rise above the crowd and grow your business even in a saturated industry.

Episode Highlights 🎤💡:

(03:43) - Standing out in a crowded photography market

(09:20) - How LinkedIn helped Ian grow visibility and clients

(13:54) - Shoot, fail, learn, repeat

Connect with Pat Miller ⬇

LinkedIn | Website

Connect with Ian Spanier ⬇

LinkedIn | Facebook | Website | Instagram

I'm Pat Miller and this is The Professional Photographer podcast. We're live at Imaging USA in Nashville, and it's been such a great conference and our setup has been fantastic. Thank you to Sony for bringing their Sony Cinema Line cameras and allowing us to use the monitor and control app. It's been a showstopper as people have filed by the studio. They're not watching me, they're watching the gear. They're having a great time talking with Sony, and so thank you, Sony, for making us look so good on the show. Today we're doing an Industry Trends episode with Ian Spanier, and we're going to talk about what does it take to stay relevant, what does it take to grow the business and what's going on in the business and the economy right now. During the interview, he's going to share how he's critiquing his own work, how he's bringing in some outside help so he can get some objective feedback on how he can take his work to the next level. And he'll even share some marketing ideas, including how important LinkedIn has been to his marketing in the past year. He's a great conversation. I know that you're going to enjoy it. Ian is standing by. We'll talk to him next. Ian, welcome to the show. Great to see you.

Thanks. Great to see you.

We're at Imaging USA. How has it been for you so far?

Very good. Very tiring.

Yeah.

A lot of talking. More talking than I probably did in a year, I would say, for sure, but definitely a good time. So many great questions, which, when you're doing these speaking engagements, it's the hardest thing to not get questions. People are asking questions. I would say I'm definitely doing my job, and I love that. And I love to answer these questions to the audience every time.

And it's great to be in person rather than doing it on zoom. It's just not the same. Right. You get to be here and really know what resonated and what landed.

Seeing people's faces, that's the big difference. Because when you see the nods from the crowd, that definitely reassures you that what you're speaking about is something that they wanted to actually learn about. Speaking at dead end there, that's. That's always tough.

It is tough. It's very, very quiet. We're doing an Industry Trend series interview today, but if someone hasn't met you yet, tell them who you are and what you do.

So I'm a portrait photographer. I work primarily in the commercial space, advertising, marketing, editorial, I am in la, so of course I work in Hollywood. Most of my work these days has been in the celebrity world and that ranges from portraiture for marketing and advertising products, as well as for the networks and streaming services, editorial projects like LA Times and different magazines that feature celebrities and that kind of stuff.

Sounds like an exciting genre to be in.

It is fun. It's very fast paced. Some photo shoots are 30 seconds. Yeah. Some are 10 minutes. Those are the good ones. And ambitiously, I'll do three setups in 10 minutes like, you know, an idiot.

That's crazy.

Of course I want to challenge myself, so it is a good time, though. It's, it's really fun and, you know, being able to work with that kind of talent, it's, you know, an instant gratification situation. So you're, you're satisfying not only your client, but also your subject.

Yeah. And you're working with people that know, most likely know how to pose or be present in front of a camera. Does that help? A little.

You know, most of the time you'd think so. But you know, as I tell photographers all the time, we are meant to be directors too. So I'm very big on controlling the situation through my lighting, through my direction, to my subjects. I love to interact and work with them. So a big part of working what I do comes down to psychology. And I was a double in art in psychology, so I love that aspect of photography and definitely use a lot of it in my approach to photoshoots.

Very few of us are in Hollywood, but we are all in business. So today in the industry Trend series, I really want to talk about, what are you seeing in the business world? What are you noticing that's changing right now?

Well, we all know it's a flooded market, right. There's more photographers than ever. Everyone with an iPhone is a photographer these days, so competition is very high. So standing out as a photographer is definitely a challenge for all of us. And it's something that I've actually gotten three or four questions from people just in passing. You know, what do I do to stand out? You know, how do I have a style? How do I create a style that makes me unique as a photographer? So I think that's a very good question to get from people and to address what it is that will make us stand out in a world like we live in today? And then of course, the other big challenge is, you know, what is AI? What is it going to do to us? You know, are the robots taking over all those things? And quite Honestly, my take on it is embrace it, understand it, decide how you want to use it, how it's going to benefit you, and it will. And based on that, you'll survive. We're not going to be replaced, in my opinion. I think there's certain areas that are going to be replaced, but they're going to save us time and they're going to allow us to maybe make more money in a shorter period of time by being more efficient in the way that we approach our jobs.

Yeah. When people are asking, how can I be different? Is that a sign that they're thinking positively, that it's important to be different? Or is it a potentially negative sign that people are thinking, I can't get jobs anymore, I need to stand out? Which one does it read for you?

Well, I never sit still myself, and I always question myself constantly, so I'm guilty of it, too. But I would actually argue that to me, it's perfect topic of mine because I'm always looking for opportunities to better myself as a photographer. I'm not satisfied with where I'm at. Never satisfied. And it was. It is what drives me very much so. And the reality is that if you're questioning those things, you're doing the right thing. Because if you are sitting on your laurels and assuming that, oh, well, I've done it this way for 20 years, it's going to be all good, I think you're going to get left behind, so I'd rather you question it.

To be honest, that takes a lot of reflection and observation and perspective that not everybody can have. In your instance, because we can't talk about a mythical person, but in your instance, always driving to get better. How do you find objectivity and perspective in your work or what you do? So you can say, hey, I could do this better, or here's an opportunity I could capture, but I didn't know it was an issue to begin with. How do you go about it?

Well, number one, I challenge myself all the time. So I'm always working on outside projects, my personal projects, in order to challenge myself to have, in my opinion, another solution to the challenges I face on photo shoots. Maybe the lighting isn't what my client wants, or maybe the situation changes, the weather doesn't work out for what we planned. I need to have solutions to those challenges. I don't. I never call them problems. I call them challenges. And challenges are meant to be overcome. Problems are just problems. Right. So that's one part of the answer I would say. And then the other part for me is really that if I am constantly looking to improve, there are things that I can do, and there's things that I might need help from others. And so I'm currently working with a consultant, for example, to reposition my book to put myself in a better position, to get the kind of work that I want to get that I haven't been able to get on my own. I've been doing this by myself for a very long time. I've had different agents over the years. Never really had much luck in that world. So as a result, it's all been on my shoulders. And I feel like in a certain way, I've taken myself as far as I can in certain areas, and now I need some assistance from somebody else. So finding those right people, super important. Finding the people that will help you learn, and you should never stop learning. That's a big, big thing. I feel like too many people go through this process without thinking that there's more to learn. You know how to use your camera, you know how to use your lights, great. But there's always something else you can

learn, and it has something to do with the story that you're telling. If I'm hearing you correctly, here's all of my work, but now you're getting some help on what does that work say about who I am and what I want to do? Which sounds like having outside help would be a real gift.

It is. I've had an elevator pitch for the last probably five or six years that I've been using and just now learned it's not the right elevator. Oh, no, no. In a good way.

I guess it is good, but. Oh, no.

Yes. In a way, I'm kind of kicking myself for never looking at it from that perspective. But as soon as I heard it, it was like, not even just a light bulb. Like, I'm talking, like a wall of lights went off. And I was like, wow. I never thought that positioning myself in this way would make a difference, but, man, that's right on. Because I'm not going to stand out. The way that I was saying it, there's a lot of guys who are scrappy. I was a scrappy guy. There's a lot of guys that can light a closet and make it look like a big studio. But what is it about me that's different? And that comes down more to me as a person? And I never took stock in that. I always looked at it as the work will speak for itself. No, not good enough. No, not good enough.

Which is enlightening. And empowering and terrifying at the same time. Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that because watching you get stopped every five feet coming on the show, your level of work, you're teaching here at Imaging, to know that people in it, even at the highest level, are having these kinds of conversations inside and outside their world is inspirational. So thank you for sharing that, because we all go through it, so I appreciate that. How about building relationships? We all want to have a strong business. What's working right now to build new relationships and to get new leads in the industry, and what maybe isn't working as well as it used to.

Well, we always face this challenge, particularly in social media, which is where a lot of my advertising, if you want to put it as a word to it, takes place. And the reality is that we are fighting algorithms, we're fighting so much content. That, again, is, how do you stand out? You know we're all on Instagram, right? I took some advice from a friend of mine who works in a completely different field, but is a CMO at a company, and he was able to suggest to me to make some changes on my LinkedIn. And I always looked at LinkedIn as, oh, that's very businessy. It's not really my thing. But with the economy that it was last year, so many people that were out of work or maybe looking for new jobs were on LinkedIn. So he was spot on. And when I made changes to my LinkedIn profile, no joke, and this isn't boasting, it's more compliment to him, I went from like maybe five likes on post to 60,000 views in five days.

Whoa.

Yeah, it was incredible. Yes. It was crazy. And he was even blown away. Like, he knew what he was talking, he was confident in what he was telling me. But these little changes started with just that. And then since that point, that was probably mid summer, we've continued to hit these content pillars, as he calls them. Half the stuff he says, I don't know what he's talking about, but I'm not. I'm not a smart man, but at the end of the day, he's spot on with the message that it puts out there and what he reminded me, which I don't know how much you know, you don't know me, but I'm pretty humble. I kind of like to not say a lot and I'm pretty quiet when I shoot. But he said, you are in a position where you're doing something that a lot of people wish they did and you need to remind people that you've worked with these top talent. It's not about name dropping, more about saying people don't know your story, so you need to put it out there. And so it's been building for the last six months, I would say, and the results are showing much more than I've seen with what I've received from Instagram. And so now we're now starting to focus some attention on Instagram and try to build that up a bit more as well.

That's great. Finding that confidence to share your resume, work history book, the people that you've worked with. I can totally relate with not wanting to sound boastful, but at the end of the day, you've done all these amazing things. You got to go out there and tell somebody.

I guess so, yeah. I mean, I'm still sort of about it, but, I mean, the crazy thing is I've known him almost my whole life. He's a friend I grew up with. And he said flat out, I had no idea you shot Jeff Bridges. And when did that happen? And I'm just like, how do you not know? I've put it out there. It's on my website. Whatever. He's like, don't assume people actually look and don't assume people actually think about what you've done. They only see what's in front of them right then and there. And the reality is you have to remind them, I've done this, I've done this, I've done this. So you do have to toot your

own horn quite a bit in conjunction with that. My theme of this year is to do what works. And I know that sounds so silly, but I like to invent a way forward. Like, I can figure this out. I bet if I did it this way, it would work. But a lot of the things, when it comes to finding new clients and spreading our personal brand, it's somewhat of a solved problem. People have done it and do it this way, and it works. And similar to what your friend said, go out and do these things on LinkedIn and you started to blow up, which is kind of cool. Now, did LinkedIn turn into business is the question.

Yes. So we essentially set all this up with the intention that sometime in 26, there would be work coming in as a result of it.

Yeah.

And before 26 even happened, I started getting some work calls and he was like, that's incredible to get that, because in the short period of time we did this. That shouldn't have happened just yet. Yeah. I did pick up a new client in September. And part of it, I would argue, was from some of the interaction. I literally met the person off LinkedIn. So had a meeting, got a job two weeks later. And I've continued to work for her since then and she's feeding me fantastic clients. So it's been one after another after another. And then those are becoming great content for the posts.

Yeah.

So it's just feeding itself.

Total cycle. Telling the story is great. Earning the story is better. Because as I said at the beginning of the interview, not everyone has a crazy compelling story to tell. They're on their way to the crazy compelling story. So can you share how you hustled to get there and kind of the best practices you have as far as how we earn those opportunities? What are we doing on a daily basis to shoot and to earn the stripes that we need to serve at a high level?

Well, on the shoot side for photographers, I always give the same advice, shoot, shoot, shoot. You know, you need that 10,000 plus hours and then some. I'm big, big believer in that. So shooting is a number one failing. Super important. I fail all the time and I love it.

Yeah.

Because you learn when you fail and you have an ability to take that and put it in the bank so that when that situation comes up again, you now have a solution, not a problem. Right.

Yeah.

And then on the other side, there is a bit of fake it till you make it. I think that's important. I certainly, you know, ran that game at the very beginning as well. People assume things all the time. So when I was traveling to Florida for vacation, people assumed I was going for work and I let them believe it, you know, and, you know, to this point, you know, much to what my friend said, I have endless content. I have a portfolio of images that I can go back all the way to, you know, the beginning of my career if I need to. So taking that material and putting it out there, it doesn't matter when I shot it. I can even reference something that I shot that I would do better now and talk about that and how would I do it better now? And here's an example of how I shoot it now versus how I shot it then. So there's endless ways to promote yourself in a way that showcases your ability to grow as a photographer. And I think that's what people want to see, is that you're not just settling on one thing.

Yeah. It's a behind the scenes story as well that you're sharing with the folks that are either fans or fellow photographers that you're Doing the work just like

they are or even potential clients because they want to see what your sets look like. They, you know, I, I tell photographers as well that, you know, the talent is, is the foundation of your business. Right. That's the given. A lot of times, especially when you're competing at a certain level, it's assumed you know how to make that image. Notice I say make, not take. Yep. Yeah. And then it's everything else from there. I ball out assistants when they hand me an invoice on a word doc. That's not an invoice.

Yeah.

That's not a good representation of who you are as a business. So it should be a formal invoice. It should come from a QuickBooks or another program that shows that you're tracking those things, not just some folder on your desktop of word docs, you know, and you know, even to the crew you decide to bring in on a photo shoot. What's the vibe on set? These are all super important things and those are the things that the client's actually caring about. They. Half the time I go to meet somebody, they don't even look at my portfolio. They've already investigated who I am. They've seen my website, they've seen Instagram, they've seen LinkedIn, they've seen my portfolio, whatever it is. So now they just want to know if there's something here and if there's something here, they can spend the day or the week or the month on set with me. And that's what you're looking for.

And it's all by design. The people you have, the way that it looks, the way that you're presenting it, it all stacks top of the portfolio 100%.

Who you choose to put around you needs to represent you as a brand. And we are brands. Right. So you need to create your brand.

I've heard you say if you can light it, you can shoot it. Is that that earned concept that you've done all the work and you know, when Kobe steps up to the free throw line, he's going to make the free throw. Is it the same kind of concept?

I think so, yes. I mean, I feel like the style of photography that I do is built off of a little bit of school learning, but a lot of life learning. I'm self taught in lighting. All my theories about lighting come from the natural world. I'm just recreating situations that I've made note of mentally and learned in the studio how to do, but to a point where it isn't a exercise. To do that. That exercise already has been done. It's much like training for sports.

Right. So those muscles have already been trained. So me throwing a light up and making an image is super easy because I've done it so many times and that's that. 10,000 hours plus.

Yeah. You say that photography is a business of. And what do you mean by that? Can you explain that?

Well, you're as good as the last thing you did and.

Yeah.

And you know, you can't just be a photographer. That whole thing I just said about the talent being the given is a big thing because you're a photographer and you're a businessman or a woman. Sure. You're a marketer, you're a hustler.

Yeah.

You know, you're you. I mean some of us are. You're a foodie. I mean, you have to be all these things because even in the conversation with the client or potential client, you have to have that ability to converse in a way that makes you interesting beyond the ability to push a button.

Right.

Because they're interviewing you. Like you say, at the end of the day, they've seen all the stuff, the pre work. Now is there a vibe?

Is there a connection?

I can tell you a thousand percent that that celebrity, if they care about people, some don't. But if they care about people, they're sussing you out.

Right?

Right. Just as much as you're making sure that light's there and this is here and you're loaded, your memory card and all those other parts are in play. But they're trying to figure you out. So who you show up as is very important. And it's not just the guy behind the camera. It's. I always have a conversation. My camera's over there or it's sitting on my hip. Yeah. And I'm just sitting here and it's just you and me talking. Because I want you to feel something that you need to give me. Right. And I'm going to take it from you. But you don't know. I'm going to take it from you because that's part of the game as well.

Right.

I'm going to make you think you're giving it to me, but I'm taking it.

What do you say? Making.

Making it. Yeah.

And they don't have the same notoriety, but someone in Milwaukee is working with a client that still has to build that kind of relationship. So what have you learned from working with high level talent or the people that you work with that people could use with an everyday mom? Or a high school senior. Like anything that goes in that initial relationship building sequence that you could share,

I don't think it's any different, to be honest with you. I don't care who's in front of my camera. I often say, you know, part of that old elevator pitch was talking about how I define portrait loosely, in that I don't care if I'm making a portrait of a cup of coffee on a table or a celebrity or a CEO or a model or a mom who, you know, rescued her drowning kid. It doesn't matter. To me. It's about lighting and what's the story I'm trying to tell. Right. So the reality is that my connection with a celebrity or a CEO or a real person or a model, it's all the same. And it's about making some kind of a connection that I can extrapolate from them what's needed for the job. My mentor is a photographer called Harry Benson, a famous photographer who came to America with the Beatles and photographed every president from Eisenhower to Trump. And. And Harry always told me, your job is to get the job done. So his high shrill Scottish accent's always going in my head, telling me, get the job done. And so I don't really. I get phased by who's in front of my camera as much as that need and that desire to make sure that I deliver on that job. And I don't stop until that is delivered.

Yeah, when you have someone like that in front of the lens and you get the shot driving home, you gotta do a fist pump. You gotta feel good when you make the image. When you're on the way home.

Well, we all doubt ourselves constantly. So don't think for a second my camera bag sitting next to me and I'm at the stoplight and I'm looking at the images on the back of the camera just. Just to remind myself, okay, did you get it? Did you not? You know, and then of course, you need that feedback from your client to, you know, also say, yeah, yeah, you nailed it.

It's been a great discussion. You talked about LinkedIn. Where else can we find and follow you?

So primarily Instagram. Still my. My big game because it's a visual, you know, venue, I would say, obviously. My website, ian spanier.com I am regularly posting with Westcott, who is my main sponsor for lighting, as well as a number of my other sponsors. So I'll be appearing at B and H in the end of the month and I'll be on the Adorama podcast at the end of month as well. I have never done that one so that'll be fun. I just met Seth this this weekend which is cool and you know I'll post all those things out on all my socials TikTok as well. Hardly on there but they have to be. And Facebook. Hardly on there but it have to be.

Yeah. Well we'll definitely look you up. Loved the conversation. Thanks for coming on.

Thank you so much.

Appreciate it, appreciate it.

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of The Professional Photographer podcast. Live from Imaging USA inside the Sony Cinema Line Studios. A big thanks to Sony for doing all the hard work to make us look good. Now, if you're still watching the episode, that means you enjoyed the show, which means you should be a subscriber of the show. So click subscribe on whatever platform you're on. Also, leave us a like and a comment so we know what the guest said that really resonated with you. The other thing is, if you're not yet a member of Professional Photographers of America, what's going on here? Because PPA offers terrific benefits like incredible equipment insurance, top notch education and a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. Join now at ppa.com. That's ppa.com. I'm Pat Miller, host to the show and the founder of the Small Business Owners Community. I appreciate you tuning in. We'll see you right here next time. Take care.