In episode 105 of Tabula Rasa, B!tches!, Allie and Nick discuss season one, episode five of Buffy, “Never Kill a Boy on the First Date.” Buffy is thrilled to be receiving attention from Owen, a brooding cutie who has a love both for poetry and for danger. In the course of trying to thwart the prophecy that foretells the coming of the Anointed One, Buffy has to learn the painful lesson that not everyone will be able to partake in the dangerous world that is dating the Slayer.

Links

• “Strong” by Velvet Chain

Credits

• Hosted by Allie Press & Nick Mercer
• Music by InflatonCult
• Artwork by Charlotte Fleming Design
• Consultation by Evo Terra

Connect with us on social media!

• Email: tabularasabpod@gmail.com
• Twitter, Instagram, Facebook: @tabularasabpod

Connect with Allie on social media:

• Twitter, Instagram: @Daughterpick
• Tiktok: @futureblackcat
• buymeacoffee.com/AlliePress

[Intro Music]

Welcome to Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

[Intro Music]

Hello, hello!

Hello.

My name is Allie.

And I'm Nick.

And welcome to season one, episode five of Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

We are so glad to have you.

In Tabula Rasa, B!tches, you'll listen as two decades-long

friends jump back into the world of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and relive

the show that brought them close together and taught them so many of

the values they still cherish today.

As always, we are going to give a spoiler warning for our friends listening in.

We're going to be discussing this episode spoilers and all.

If you haven't watched and you don't want to hear any spoilers, go ahead

and go do your watching, come back.

We can't wait to have you back here.

Each episode of Tabula Rasa, B!tches, we'll dive into an episode of

Buffy the Vampire Slayer and discuss the lessons that can be learned from

our favorite Sunnydale warriors and the supernatural creatures they use their

talents and friendship to overcome.

Today, we'll be discussing season one, episode five, "Never

Kill A Boy on the First Date."

Wise.

Allie, I have a question for you.

Oh yeah, yeah, don't or like, depending on the boy, if he sucks,

go ahead kill him, like fair enough.

My question to you is, where do I learn about this, this strange podcast title?

This strange podcast title?

Well, if you have that question in your mind, that means you didn't

listen to our first episode!

So naughty, naughty listener, you can go back over to episode one, where we talk

about where we got our episode title or our show title, Tabula Rasa, B!tches.

And

- Allie Press: So go do that!

Just to wait until you're clued in, friends.

It's a good one.

It's a good one.

That's true.

Yeah.

So for everyone who, who isn't initiated to that episode, you have,

you have something to look forward to.

We love a homework moment.

We do.

Allie, do you mind if I share with our friends this episode summary?

I would be delighted if you would do so.

And I would be delighted to do so, so we are perfectly aligned.

This episode summary.

Buffy is beginning to feel the lack of a boyfriend in her life, but when the

quiet and mysterious Owen starts to pay her attention, things start to look up.

Meanwhile, Giles and Buffy learn of The Master's plan to bring forth the

Anointed One, a powerful vampire who is destined to help him fight the Slayer.

Buffy is unconvinced about the prophecy and goes out on a date with

Owen the following evening, rather than following up on a lead that the

Anointed One may be about to rise.

Giles follows up on the lead alone and finds himself in

trouble with a group of vampires.

After Willow and Xander interrupt Buffy's date with Owen, the three

arrive to save Giles, not knowing that Owen has followed them.

Buffy finds the strength to kill the presumed Anointed One after he hurts Owen.

The following day Buffy decides that perhaps dating is pretty dangerous

after all, she breaks things off with Owen, and sighs with relief that

the prophecy didn't come to pass.

Or did it?

OoooOOOOooooo!

OoOoo.

Yeah, definitely some solid "don't make an

assumption" in this episode.

Uh, for sure.

There so many, so many, so many quotes in this one, too.

I'm really excited to chat about that with you, Allie.

Yeah.

This is a good one.

This is one that I ended up watching a lot as a kid because for some reason

I kept thinking that this was the one where she has Angel over and the

whole like shirtless tattoo thing.

For some reason I kept thinking that that was this episode.

So I kept putting it on and then like, oh, different date, different boy, whatever.

So I've seen - very familiar with this episode.

I wouldn't be mad about seeing Owen shirtless.

I wouldn't be mad at all.

No, no, he's cute.

He's cute.

I mean he's no David Boreanaz, but he's cute.

Okay.

Okay.

Flag that for yourself.

I have a question for you later on that we're going to come back to that

gets at that point that you just said.

Excellent.

Excellent.

What is your first note?

So my first note is, yeah, glad the grunts got better.

Uh, Buffy's fighting in the beginning

- Nick Mercer: I noticed that too.

Yeah, yeah.

They are a lot

- Allie Press: They're getting,

They continue to improve.

She clearly got some coaching.

I get it.

Hey, fight choreo, that is a specialty all on its own.

Um, I think we all think we know how to make sounds until we're asked to do it.

I don't know how to make sounds.

Especially if you're not the one doing those moves.

Cause, cause obviously she had a stunt double.

So that means that she was going in ADR.

Um, which is, I don't know what ADR stands for, but it's when the actors

go into a studio afterwards and rerecord lines, either for clarity

or they have to change things.

Um, sometimes that's when they also change things for international release.

All that kind of stuff.

So that means that she was going into a booth later and trying to time

imitates fight grunts , you know, trying

- Nick Mercer: Grunting

So it's, it's hard, you know, I didn't-

Wow.

I thank you for that education, Allie.

I didn't know about that.

You're so welcome!

Neat!

My first note is a quote from Buffy where she says, "Giles, don't mention it.

It was my pleasure to make the world a safer place for humanity."

And that vibed with me particularly here, particularly today.

I am going to speak in generalities here because I don't want to throw anybody

under the bus who might be listening.

But I had an experience today where I was sharing a win that I had with somebody.

And that person didn't mean to, they did not mean to, and they

explained it afterwards, but they immediately started asking me a

million detailed questions about this win, and it was like just a little.

And I interrupted them and I was like, okay, did you mean

to say, "Good job, Nick?"

And, and she said, "No, I didn't.

I was going to get to that."

And we had to get, it was, it was a productive discussion.

It was a healthy, it was, it was good.

It was good.

But I then, after that conversation, I watched this episode and

it, it resonated with me.

It did.

Yes, I used to have a lot of those moments, uh, after shows

with my dad where he'd be like, "Oh, So-and-so was, did a great job," or

"You should lift your chin up at this moment so that the light's in your face."

And I'm like, did you mean good show?

Right.

We'll get to notes.

Did you mean great job?

Right.

Person who's not my director?

You know, and there's time for feedback, there is.

I'll share information with you, but we're gonna celebrate first.

Yeah.

How about you just give me flowers and shut the fuck up?

Absolutely.

Come on, Bruce.

I love you, Bruce.

I would die for you.

Yeah.

Chuckling So, so I love the moment when Giles picks up the ring that the vampire

left behind, she goes, "Oh, great.

I'll slay them, you'll fence their jewelry."

[Nick laughs] And I just had this immediate, sketch, like SNL sketch

spin-off in my head, like, still the same world, still the same seriousness

that's going on, but then there's this goofy cartoon spinoff of actually

Giles pawn stars style selling off.

And he keeps getting questions about like where these came from and he has

to either make stuff up or he just tells the truth, but they don't believe him.

He's just this wacky librarian who has really good vintage stuff.

I dunno.

I just, my head went off and I was like, I would watch that show.

I would also watch that show.

I want to see how much money he gets for a ring from the Order of Aurelius.

That'd be so interesting.

Such a specific thing and people would be like, I don't know.

He's like, trust me, it's a thing.

Um, I, uh, continue to be impressed with

how terrifying The Master is.

Just his makeup, his costume, his lair has gotten creepier.

And I really like in that scene, how we get kind of just, just a little taste,

just like the glimpse of his strength when he lifts the dude by his neck.

Mmm.

Mhm.

Mhm.

That is, uh, an opposite reaction to that scene that I had because

I have the note "LOL The Master?

More like the SASS master."

[Laughing] "Oh, that isn't in the prophecy at all," or whatever he says.

I know, I know.

I was just, okay, sarcasm much?

I just, I loved that moment because again, you were saying he is, he is very scary.

So then when he also is very flippant, I don't know something about it.

I love it.

And I think that's what makes him such a great villain

because he has those moments.

Get yourself a villain that's both scary and is a little bit of a bitch.

Get you someone who can do both.

Right.

"Two points for the Slayer and the Watcher has yet to score."

[Nick Laughing] That was pretty great.

So many good Slayer vibes from this one.

Um, I think that her green dress in the, in dress?

What did I just say?

Green dress and chunky ring she's wearing are amazing.

Yes.

I had a chunky ring very similar.

Actually still have it.

I was really glad when I found it recently because the nineties/seventies

are very much in, so I - mhmm.

They've been in for a while, but finally, like on a larger scale, people

are catching on and I am all about it.

So, very excited for that.

Um, I want a picture of that ring.

It's super cute.

It has rhinestones in it.

So I have, I wrote down, uh, the quote from Giles, "The mere fact

that you would want to check out a book would be grounds for a holiday."

Um, b'scuse me?

Did she not just give you an I told you so on the research you were just doing?

And he's like, oh no, I can't, I can't find it.

And she's like, yeah, I saw that.

It's right here.

And she like, literally finds the page and totally schools him.

And then he's like, pff, Buffy the fact that you would even pick

up a book would be astonishing.

Bitch!

Yeah, Giles, I'm gonna need you to check yourself

before you wreck yourself.

Before I come into the TV opposite Ring-style and wreck YOURself.

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Don't, don't shade Buffy for this.

And we actually do learn throughout the s - well, yeah, we learn throughout

the series and it's already been established by, uh, science teacher

who ended up dying that Buffy's smart.

She's smart.

It's not, it's not for lack of intelligence.

Yeah, no, not at all.

She's just, you know, a superhero and has to whatever.

Right!

No, I had this whole tangent in my head cause she's, she says

this later, but she says, you know, "Clark Kent had a day job."

And it's like, well, actually, how good of an employee would Clark Kent have been?

Like how...

he worked at a newspaper.

How was he getting those articles in on deadline?

Yeah, and I bet, I bet he knew his priorities very clearly

and did not convey to his employer what those priorities were, obviously.

Yeah, there's no way.

He was missing deadlines left and right.

Yeah, or Lois was writing them for him.

Wouldn't that be fucking typical.

Some dude just gets to publish them on the back of a woman's work.

We do live in America.

I honestly wouldn't have even been surprised if some of the

originals were written like that.

He's like, oh, thanks Lois, blah, blah, blah.

Um, I have a quote from Giles in this scene that I thought was funny.

Uh, also I think that it's hilarious that we learn that Buffy clearly has a brooding

mysterious type with our friend Owen here.

is so true.

The quote from Giles that I really liked or the exchange,

uh, he goes, "She's quite a good poet," referring to Emily Dickinson.

"I mean, for-" and Buffy says, "A girl?"

Giles goes, "An American."

Chuckling.

That's good, Giles.

You saved your- you checked yourself there.

That was a good idea.

Yeah, I believe that, that that's what he meant.

Yeah, it a good save.

But it is, yeah, that is great timing.

We've all had that moment of like, you better watch the next

words that come out of your mouth.

You're on, choose them carefully.

Thin ice.

Um, can we talk about lying about interests?

So, this whole time she's like, oh, Emily Dickens!

And he's like Dickinson?

[Nick laughs.] And she's like, uh, love her.

She's great.

She's my favorite.

I read all - Me?

I love books.

And it's like, actually- And lots of people would make the same move.

But, if anyone's listening out there who thinks that pretending you already know

about a subject to impress a potential love interest is a good idea, no, no, no.

Better idea, be really interested in it and share it with them.

"Oh!

You know, I've always meant to read Emily Dickinson.

What if we went to a park and read some together?"

Or what if I sit and listen to you talk about how much you love Emily Dickinson?

I did do this as a move.

Um, a now-friend, who at the time was a romantic interest, err,

one-sided, uh, expressed one of his, uh, his favorite movies.

And I was like, that's your favorite movie?

Huh.

I think you would like my favorite movie.

What if we got together and watched them together?

Off taping I need to know who this is, but you could name him

later, but keep going, keep going.

No, that's it.

It was it, and we did.

He came over and we watched both movies and they were not short movies.

Uh...

Uh [Nick laughs.]

What movies did you watch?

We watched Gran Torino and Dead Poet's Society.

Which one do you think was my favorite?

Oh, Dead Poet's Society.

That shou-, that was, that was a gimme for you.

Gran Torino.

Do I know this person?

I think so.

Yeah, I obviously I know this person.

Who, who do we know...

okay, I have an-

It's not, so it's not over my embarrassment.

It's not wanting to embarrass him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, that makes sense.

That makes sense.

It'll leave a little mystery for folks.

That's good.

Speaking of broody guys who like poetry.

Anyway.

Oh, okay.

Now I know exactly who it is.

That's funny.

Allie snickering.

Gave it away with that one, huh?

This is just good dating advice though, right?

It

You don't have to fake.

If you take interest in somebody, in something that, that you want to know

about and they're already interested in, they're totally going to go for that.

They, people love explaining things they're interested in.

Ask me about World of Warcraft sometime, Allie.

Oh, psh, abso - no.

[Laughing.]

Fine.

I won't date you then.

No, I'll still date you, please.

No, cause it, cause it sort of leads into some of the best

dating advice I ever, I ever read.

Um, I read Modern Love by Aziz Ansari, which whether you think he's

questionable or not, there's some really good information in the book.

Um, a lot of people, they do all the same things on dates.

They always go to the same restaurant or they always do that same activity

of like coffee or drinks or whatever.

And so you're wondering why you're never having success with dates.

It's like, well, you're always doing the same thing.

But what actually creates a connection is shared experiences.

So finding something to do, so like monster truck rally, like even if neither

of you end up being into it, you've now both been to a monster truck rally.

It's like, it's a shared thing that you can now, you have A] more

to talk about, and B] now it's a new thing that bonds you two.

Neato.

Huh.

Dating advice with Allie.

This should be a regular segment on our podcast..

Yes, me and my, my wealth of knowledge.

You just gave two really good pieces of advice there.

In the next scene, I have an I, uh, well, I guess it's not an iconic quote

from Cordelia, but it's an iconic quote that is because of Cordelia?

I think I know what you're going to say.

So, uh, Buffy has just gone to sit with Owen who's sitting

alone and Cordelia tries to sweep in and she hits Buffy and Buffy goes, "Wow,

Cordelia's hips are wider than I thought.

[Laughing.]

Not that we should be body shaming other women or

putting other women down, but LOL.

Um, I love, so they're talk, so Owen's talking about going to The Bronze or uh

Cordelia is inviting Owen to The Bronze.

And he says, "Who's gonna be there?"

And she says, " I mean, I'm going to be there."

And he says, "Who else?"

Yeah.

I wrote down that he's just so innocent and sweet and socially unaware.

Uh-huh.

Yup.

But I just, I just love, I love that.

Cause I feel like that's also a dating moment or an interest

moment where we've all had?

Where like you're trying to get your crush to come to something and he's like,

cool, so who else, who all is going?

And you're like, well, I guess that means I'm not enough....

Yeah, I'll just go fuck myself, thanks.

Yeah.

I do love his initiative, though.

So for all of his like, social shyness or it kind of seems like

it's not that he can't be social he just chooses very sparsely to?

But he does very quickly go well, Buffy, would you, would you want to go?

How about at eight?

And I was like, oh, all right, then.

He does definitely give very clear signs of his interest because

he, like, he makes the plan.

He is bold and it's refreshing.

We see that later on too, when, um, maybe we'll get to it.

Maybe we won't.

But when he's like, when she doesn't show up, sorry, I'm jumping ahead here.

We can go back.

But when she doesn't show up and he, he goes up to her the next

day and he's like, where were you?

Wanted to - th, that, yes, Owen.

Love that.

Yeah!

Communication!

Communication, that's good stuff.

So for all, all of the right, for all of the red flags that he

does eventually end up putting up, that is a very green, green flag for sure.

I love that we are getting this glimpse into

Buffy as an actual teenager.

Yes.

Yes.

I love that.

I have written down the quote, um, when Giles is talking about

her, like going out and patrolling and she's like, "But cute guy!

Teenager!

Post-pubescent fantasies!"

And again, clearly not dumb, using words like post pews, post-pubescent.

Totally.

She's smart.

Give her some credit.

And self-aware enough that this is a normal developmental milestone.

Come on, let me do this.

This a thing that teenagers- like that's, I don't know.

impressive.

Yeah.

And so they do, she does go after, after they are, uh, come up with

nothing with the prophecy stuff.

And, you know, I was a little bummed that she sees, she sees, uh, Owen and

Cordelia dancing and it's like but...

he's clearly not into it.

Read some body language, hun.

That's funny.

I had the opposite reaction.

Really?

I, I, so when Buffy looked at, have you ever had that experience

where you have a crush on this dude and then you see him talk to somebody else

or like showing some sort of interest, just that sinking feeling in your chest.

You're like, damn it.

I thought...

Of course.

I wanted, I, and I felt like they did a really, well, okay.

So you also recognize they did a good job with that.

You're just like Buffy, that's not what he's doing!

Come on!

I going to say, I felt like they did a good job capturing that...

Yeah, I think-

Right.

Cause I can see where she felt that and definitely like she was

already feeling the pressure of being late and probably like already

lots of bad self-talk on her part.

And I do think that's probably very accurate to what a teenager would do.

And we've been there.

You know, I grew up with Anna Cooke as my best friend.

Every guy I ever introduced to her had a crush on her.

[Laughter.]

Damn it, Anna.

Cause Anna, you know, it's true.

Don't even fuckin lie.

Bitch, I hate you.

You better be listening.

You better be listening as it comes out.

Uhh she because she's one of our friends who did actually watch Buffy.

Cause there's going to be a lot of friends we're going to share this

with who don't watch Buffy, but she's one of the ones who did, so...

So, this is a challenge to Anna Cooke, specifically, as soon as you

hear us say this, put Allie and I in a group text and text us the word penguin.

So we'll know that.

Ooh, I love that.

I love

- Nick Mercer: Yeah.

We'll see.

We'll see.

Um, okay, so in the next scene with the van, with the creepy dude going

off about the prophecy or whatever.

Um, he asks the question to the other people in the van, "Are you

willing to stand with the righteous?"

And I'm not in the van, but just to be clear, I am sure as hell not willing to

stand with the righteous, you creepy fuck.

On just about anything.

In most situations, but oof, god, that would be terrifying

to be on a bus with that guy.

Yeah, it's just spewing all of that.

And then he's not even just sitting down, he gets up?

Please don't get up.

Please don't walk towards me.

Please don't address me.

At first, I just have secondhand embarrassment and

then I am afraid for my safety.

Right, because he's not your standard crazy

person babbling to themselves.

Like, this is somebody who comes off threatening.

He's clearly muscular and he's got that like crease in his forehead.

Like he's angry about it.

So it's like babbling craziness with intent.

Yup.

Yeah.

Definitely lots of like, he looks like a vampire before

he even gets turned into a vampire.

Um, yep.

Don't love him.

I don't, I don't love any of that for him.

Yeah, gross.

Um, I have a quote maybe at, this might be skipping.

You did not have to swerve that hard.

[Laughing.]

That's true.

Yeah,

kind of looked like an overcompensation.

I know I wasn't there.

I know I wasn't driving, but I don't know.

I feel like that crash was a little unnecessary.

You're supposed to be a good driver, too, sir.

Right?

Um, oh, I love the watches moment with-

I wrote that down, too!

Was so cute!

Going like, cause Owen gives her the like really old timey, old

fashioned pocket watch, which is like, aw, super cute moment.

Very classy.

And I would not expect anything less for him to have a classy pocket watch.

Yeah.

Definitely.

But then, I just love that cinematic moment of then panning

over to Xander's cartoon watch.

Fantastic.

Little Tweety Bird.

I To be fair, personally, I like Xander's watch more.

Yeah.

Agreed.

But it, perfectly emblematic of-

as if, you

and -insecurity that Xander feels.

Girls don't have big enough pockets - she probably

didn't even have pockets at all.

It's the nineties.

She probably didn't have any pockets.

Like she has somewhere to put a pocket watch?

True, good point.

Just saying.

Um, I love the, Buffy:

does normal teenager thing.

"She is the strangest girl."

[Light laughter.]

Um, this is my first question for Allie moment the episode.

We saw in the scene with the watches that Xander had decked out the

inside of his locker with stuff.

Mhmmm.

How did you decorate the inside of your locker?

Well, that depends on middle school or high school.

Because high school, we were allowed to carry our backpacks

with us so I did not use my locker.

Um, past freshman year, I didn't even bother to like

go find where my locker was.

I didn't even know where mine was either.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, there's probably still a, an umbrella in there or something.

Uh, but middle school, oh my god.

I took a decorating my locker very seriously.

Always went to Target and I would get the magnets and the mirror and the picture

frame holders and the little magnetic thing, cup holder thing that you'd put

like extra hair ties or whatever, and like the extra shelf for inside the locker.

And every year, I would make a collage, in like Open Office or whatever.

I wouldn't, it's not like I was cutting and pasting things.

No, no, no.

I was full digital.

I'd make a collage of all the celebrities I had current crushes on.

And I would have all of those in my locker.

So yeah, Angel was probably almost definitely in my locker.

I bet.

Do you think you have any pictures of the inside of one of your lockers?

No, I may still have one of the collages somewhere?

Cause I keep that shit.

It is, it is really funny to see some of the stuff.

Um, Tom welling, Kent from Smallville.

I, I mean...

Cheaper By The Dozen, as well.

Oh yeah, Cheaper By The Dozen.

Well, and he was in Lucifer and he may or may not be coming

back to the role of Clark Kent.

There's rumors.

And he is still fiiiiiine.

Yes.

So sexy.

Um, if you have that collage, I need you to find it.

If you have it.

I need to see it.

I will look for it.

Glorious.

Thank you.

In, in two months when I'm actually back home.

Uh, what about you?

What was your locker situation?

So I, well, similar to you in high school, did not even

know where it was past freshman year.

I don't think that I ever...

I know that I wanted to deck it out, but felt like that was too feminine

and everybody else already thought I was gay and I was definitely not gay.

Absolutely.

I'm not gay.

I was, I was about to ask that.

Did you think that, was it part of trying to hide?

Oh, yeah.

Total toxic masculinity internalized homophobia thing, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, so fantasy world.

Middle-school Nick.

Who would you have had in your locker?

Or what would you have had in your locker?

It's so funny you mentioned Tom willing.

If I were to make a collage for middle-school Nick, uh, Tom Welling,

yeah, as Superman in Smallville.

Oh my god.

So fine.

Who else?

Yeah, David Boreanaz would have been There.

Yeah, I watched Buffy in middle school.

Who else would have been in there?

Um, oh, uh, Channing Tatum.

Still a crush.

Hell yeah.

Step Up era.

Fuck yeah.

Oh yeah.

I mean, now I only love him even more after all

the comedy stuff he's done.

But we were already all over him just from Step Up.

Yeah, get yourself a man who's sexy and funny.

And dances.

I did decorate people's lockers for their birthdays.

That was always a thing.

That was so much fun.

That was always really sweet.

Oh, middle-school.

So, I actually have a question written

down here for you, Nicholas.

Um, do you have a worst date story?

Or a funny date story?

Oh my god, I do have a worst date story.

Oh god, one of my - okay.

It was in college, one of my friends- So Allie, you and

I went to Towson University.

Um, one of my friends attended American University, which is far from Towson.

That's where my big sisters went!

And bless them.

Bless them both.

All.

How many big sisters?

Oh yeah, 2, 2, 2.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, my friend decided to set me up with somebody that she knew.

Looking back, I'm pretty sure she, I think she only decided to set us up

because we were two gay people and like, naturally it's going to be a good.

Whatever.

So I traveled all the way to American University.

I think we ended up taking like public transportation.

Which is far.

That is from Baltimore to DC and with public transportation, that is rough.

They do not make it easy to go between those cities.

No, they don't.

And then, once I got to American University, I still, we still

had some public transportation to do to get, but once you're in DC

it's a little easier, whatever.

I'm saying, it was, it was an evening, it was a night commitment.

Dinner was so bad.

It was so awkward.

Nothing in common whatsoever.

I think he asked me what my favorite magazine was?

Which is a fair question as somebody who's interested, but I think I said Nickelodeon

Magazine cause was the only, that was it.

I was a, I was a 20-year-old saying, like just..

And then I had to, oh yeah, that was uh, oh yeah, it wasn't great, Allie.

Wasn't great.

What about you?

Any, any funny, bad...

Funny, bad dates stories...

Uh, ha ha ha, uh, it's funny, like, do I go with a sarcastically funny

reference to my emotionally abusive ex?

Or do I go with something that was like actually funny?

Um...

no, I don't really ha- cause I

I won't name him, but fuck that dude.

Hahahaaa...Already did.

[They darkly laugh.]

True.

Regrets.

Um, no, anyway, no, see, the thing is I didn't date a lot.

That's the thing, like I didn't get asked out much.

I mean, I had a date with my, my middle school boyfriend.

Also a Nick.

I definitely have a thing in my life for Nicks.

And we went to-

Why won't you date me, then?

I tried so hard.

Don't even act like I didn't.

That is offensive for you to say.

[Nick laughing.] Slap you across the face.

Um, so my middle school boyfriend and I's first date was Prom Night.

Not the night of, but like the movie with Britt-Brittany Snow.

Because my thinking was, we'll go see a scary movie, I'll get really scared

and like jump over and cuddling and maybe kissing will ensue or whatever.

It didn't even end up being scary.

It was just sad.

Cause it opens up girl who was attacked by a stalker.

She's currently in therapy, still having lots of PTSD.

She's barely recovering enough to go to prom.

And this is supposed to be this big, happy, joyous thing after this guy.

I think he even like killed her parents or something and now

she's living with her aunt uncle.

Like, serious trauma already starting off from minute one.

She's probably never gonna be ok.

Or, you know, she has a long journey to get to okay.

So she has prom night and then, obviously, horror movie, things go

awful, best friends die, all this stuff.

She was already barely okay and now she's just never, like,

lock her in a padded cell.

She's never going to be okay.

Like, it just ended up being sad.

[Disgusted sound.]

No touching, or like maybe I even tried to hold hands or

something, but we didn't, or I was too scared to cause it was middle school.

It was just a very unsuccessful date.

Not, not even not funny, but just kind of, yeah, just kind of lame.

That's okay.

Things have gotten better for both of us with our lifelong partners.

Yeah.

I mean, I can tell, I can tell amazing date stories with my current partner.

That'll be episode 5.5.

It'll be great.

Um, in the next scene where Buffy is getting ready for her date.

I wonder if we wrote down the same quote here.

Oh, well, not a quote, but, um, how insensitive

can they be having Xander there?

Yeah.

That's not great, is it?

She's profusely talking about this, this date that she's going

on with a different guy, obviously.

Picking out outfit, all this stuff, and like, okay, we all know, let's

not pretend like we don't all know that Xander has a thing for Buffy.

Yeah, it's not their kindest move ever.

Rude or maybe he's like trying to show that he's okay?

I don't know.

I, I also remember watching this as younger, and I

think the fact that he was so in love with her had just escaped me.

I thought that he had gotten over it.

I don't know.

The vibes that I get from him now is obviously he's like jealous

and would like to be going on the date with Buffy instead.

But the vibes that I got back then was that he was, it was like an

overproductive brother kind of.

Okay.

It could be both.

It could be a bit of both.

Um, or like over-protective because you're in love with her?

Or if like, like maybe he's acknowledged that he's not going to have her, but he's

not ready for someone else to have her.

Which is fair.

We've all been there.

Like, okay, I get that, I get that I - Well, it's fair

for the situation to exist.

Yes.

It's not fair to like, put that on them,

Yeah, yeah,

been there

I see what you're

I get that we broke up, but that doesn't mean I want

to see you with someone else.

Yup.

Totally.

I'm not saying you can't be with somebody else, but

doesn't mean I have to like it.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That seems fair to me.

So what's the quote?

The quote that I love is, uh, so Giles has come to be

like, oh, it's the end of the world.

And then Buffy goes, "If the apocalypse comes, beep me."

Chuckles.

That is a good one.

That's another, in a previous episode, I talked about how the DVDs would

play a preview, a selected quote.

When you pressed play on an episode, it would play the quote

and then start the episode.

That was the quote for this episode.

So good.

"If the apocalypse comes, beep me."

I, I wrote down, "A cranky Slayer is a careless Slayer."

Yeah.

[Laughs.] True.

Um, there's a quote from Owen that I don't love when they're in The Bronze together.

I bet I know what it is.

I wonder.

He says, "I find most girls pretty frivolous.

You know, there's a lot more important-"

"-important things in life than dating."

It, like...

Says the guy pursuing a girl!

Well, and this whole part at the beginning, "I find

most girls pretty frivolous."

If you find, if you are categorizing most of any group as one

thing, then I think that, yeah.

And the problem is probably with you.

"Most girls pretty frivolous."

Why don't, do you just need to...

be more social?

Like, do you-

Well, I also, I can see it definitely from his like...

He reads Emily Dickinson and he has to have his Emily with him.

And so he probably has like what today would be considered

very like hipster perspectives.

Like, oh, I bet all you read is Vogue and Covergirl or whatever.

And he's like, oh, but you don't, you don't read like

real pain, blah, blah, blah.

And a lot, I feel like he can, he talks about like how morbid she is and stuff.

And I bet he has a very stable home life, good grades...

Mmmm.

Has decent friends and is like desperately trying to-

He needs to be edgy.

-he has, yeah!

He's just this edgelord who's like talking about girls being frivolous

and it's like, you know what...

Let people enjoy things.

People enjoy things.

And actually Teen Vogue has pretty provocative, nuanced...

True.

Teen Vogue was not a good example because they do lots-

Well, no, it's something that, that somebody

like Owen would be like, oh, Vogue is so frivolous or whatever.

But then it's like when somebody says something-

No, they had interviews with like Emma Watson and stuff like that.

Um, so yeah, Teen Vogue is actually like, you know, and also, I just

think it's so obnoxious to be dumping on something that you do.

It's like you're, you were, you're clearly dating.

Right.

Oh, they're all so obsessed with dating.

Uh, oh, uh, we do have a message, uh, this episode features music by

Velvet Chain, the song "Strong."

I didn't know that!

You looked it up!

I did!

Cause, um, cause I recognized the song off of Buffy the Album.

So I wanted to make sure, I was pretty sure, but I definitely didn't

remember the band name is Velvet Chain.

So, in that, when they're at The Bronze on their date, uh, that is

who was playing on, on the stage.

That is Velvet Chain.

How about that?

It's good music.

"Hello, salty goodness."

Ew.

Also, gross.

[Laugh.] Shut up.

[More laughing.]

That's Cor, Cordelia reacting to Angel, which I think

is a perfectly valid reaction.

Salty?

Why is that the adjective?

I don't know.

Uuugh, um, I do like, I do like that quote,

there's another quote from her.

"Pick up the phone, call 9-1-1.

That boy is going to need some serious oxygen after I'm done with him."

[Snickering.]

[Sigh.] Gurla, yeah, that's straight, that confidence.

Gurlaaaa

I do, I do love that.

Like immediate blow to her confidence when he walks straight to Buffy.

Why is this happening to me?

Yeah, that's good.

Yes.

I also love the immediate shift in Angel's physicality when Owen comes back from

getting the drink or the food or whatever.

You can just tell he immediately goes into like posturing mode.

Oh, yeah, he's threatened.

So this is, this is where I, um, this is a question that I think I know

your answer to now, but based on what we know about Angel and Owen so far,

I think I might say Owen's cuter.

Wha-hut??

Yeah.

I think, yeah, just looking at the two of them together.

I think, I think Owen's the cutie there.

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion.

[Laughing.] Thanks.

I appreciate it.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

I, I did look up the actor who plays Owen.

He's still really cute.

I believe that.

I believe that.

No, he's, I mean, I will not disagree that he is a cutie and he is definitely

somebody, like, I would have had eyes for in high school, as we said previously.

Definitely my type.

Um, but no, them compared side by side?

No, not a chance.

Angel all the way.

Hmm.

All right.

We'll see if our listeners agree with you or me.

Um, and then we very quickly get to issues with personality

with Owen when he says, "Actually, that sounds kind of cool" - going to, uh,

going to a morgue and it's like Ooh!

Red flag.

That's weird.

Red flag.

Red flag.

Yeah, that's you, yeah, that's not normal

Maybe going to a cemetery - cool.

Morgue?

No.

Going into a morgue, yeah, I don't need to see that.

Yeah, I'm okay.

Yeah.

We love a first kiss moment.

Yes, and Angel's face.

Yeah, hahahaha, when Buffy kisses Owen.

Yep.

Ahhh, that's so funny.

Yeah.

Why is Willow so good at lying?

Um, yeah, so they, Xander and Willow here when they're interrupting

their date, it's big, um, big lame parents crashing the hangout energy and, and

yeah, Willow is, she's on right away.

Oh yeah.

And a good story, too.

Not one of those it was flying monkeys and you're like, okay,

well you're ly, you're lying.

No, she's like, she's on top of it.

And she's supposed to be the goody-goody.

So...

I don't know.

Hmm.

Interesting skill for her to have.

Interesting skill.

There's, there's some things we don't know about.

I don't know.

There's, I have something written about like the prophecy being vague and...

Oh!

I think Giles is talking about like, yeah, I don't know, I, I guess it

could be pointing to this thing when the, um, I think it's when he's

looking at the news article where the five people died in the bus crash?

And he saying like, this could be the five people.

And he's like, I know it's not rising from the ashes.

It's like, well, prophecies are notoriously flowery, flowery language

and vague so that they can come true.

So like, yeah, of course, of course it's vague and weird and can be

interpreted a million different ways.

It's intentional.

Yeah.

Yeah, they're tricky.

Um, so now we're at the point where, uh, Buffy, Xander, Willow are in

the morgue trying to save Giles.

We learn that Owen has followed them.

Goddammit, Owen, whatever.

When Buffy, I love Buffy's continued development here,

really shining as a leader.

Telling Giles to like, hang on, she's managed, she's says to

Xander and Willow watch him.

Just the delegation there.

It's nice to see.

We love to see it.

Yep.

Definitely.

Definitely a natural, natural born leader.

Um, although I do have close the - when they're looking through

all of the, um, what are those called, where the bodies are stored.

All the doors and stuff.

Close the doors!

Were you raised in a barn?

Cause they're just like leaving all of them open.

It's like everyone, someone's going to know that someone was in here

rifling through all of these drawers.

Yeah, you monsters.

Come on.

Do you leave the cupboards open at home?

I hope not.

God, I hope not.

Hayden does.

I have to go behind him and shut them.

Um, I have "Pork and beans?"

written down.

So this is when the dude wakes up, he's a vampire, and he start, he come, he

breaks through the observation room window, and he's like, "Pork and beans,

pork and beans, I smell pork and beans."

And I looked that up cause I was like, is this some kind of like folky song?

Something?

So I, I put the quote into Google and the first thing to

come up is a Buffy chatroom.

Uh, and I took a screenshot.

It's okay.

This time will be edited out in post that's what

- Nick Mercer: Don't do it

It'll be fun.

So.

Uh, okay.

So the quote is, "'He is risen in me, pork and beans, pork and beans.

I can smell you.

You're the chaff, unblessed.

I'll suck the blood from your hearts.

He says I may.' So vampire Borba is simply equating" - I guess

Borba's the name of the dude?

Um, so "he's simply equating the teens fleeing from him to food here.

And it's specifically this kind of food because canned pork and beans is probably

something he's familiar with, whether as a transient or from prison or the army.

And he's equating them to something cheap since they're insignificant to

him now in his new exalted state."

Wow.

So that was someone's interpretation, but

I think that's pretty spot on.

That's spot on!

Yeah!

My goodness.

It's not something I would've pulled out, but yeah.

Good for you doing that research, Allie.

Wow.

Heck yeah, Internet.

I wrote down- so this was before the dude has woken up.

They're barricading the door or whatever.

And Xander, I, so Xander puts, they, moving various things in

front of the door, Xander places a cushion from a couch and then Willow

puts a lampshade on the chair.

Good job.

Thanks for that.

That's great.

I had that exact same thought of, you know, that's going to do a lot.

I'm so glad you took those extra seconds.

Yeah.

Um, I'm not sorry for asking this question.

Mhm?

The crazy vampire...

is he kinda hot?

Mmmmm...

Come on.

Not even a little bit?

No...

no...

Whatever.

Uh, wi-with that much religious drivel being

spewed out of his mouth...

I just, no, no.

I mean maybe if I saw him smile?

Un-unknit that brow?

But-

If you go to church with him I'm sure he'll smile.

Chuckling.

Fine.

I'll just thirst over him alone.

Yeah, I mean, more for you.

Uh, okay.

So Buffy's talking to Owen the next day.

And she's saying, you know, the, the usual, it's not me, it's

you - or it's not - snort - it's not

- Allie and Nick: [Laughter.]

Freudian slip.

Uh, saying that it's not you, it's me.

And it's like, no, no, no, no.

It's definitely you.

Yeah.

We found out that you're crazy and you're accident prone, or you

have a, have a adrenaline junky side and that's, that is dangerous and not ok.

Yeah, you seek out danger.

That's not a good match for a Slayerrr.

No, no, no, no.

And then I had, I have this headcanon now that Owen doesn't make it to senior year.

Like, he is definitely someone who ends, I bet this track record

of seeking out danger continues.

And I bet he ends up getting killed by another vampire.

He dies at some point.

Right?

Yeah!

I was just like, I, I had that thought and I was like, no, I'm certain he

ends up being a Sunnydale casualty.

But like the casual in casualty because he's probably - not to victim

blame, but putting himself in very dangerous, vulnerable situations and,

you know, reaps the consequences.

Totally.

Yeah.

I feel like victim blaming is a little different when you're in a

town full of vampire, then we can kind of be like, you should not do that.

There's precautions you can take and like, you can be safe.

And I know that sometimes it's like, especially in Sunnydale, there's

no amount of safe you can be at some point, but I feel like Owen

probably doesn't try very hard.

Oh yeah.

Oh Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Dude like walked through a cemetery at night or something, which is

a sketchy thing to do anyways.

Don't do that anyways, but still.

Yeah, he does not live to fight in the battle

of Sunnydale High School.

I don't think he does.

Um, I noted a very nineties item.

Willow is drinking one of those- do you remember those little juices

that would have the twist off things?

And then it would, um, you would know it if I showed it to you,

it was, it was so casual just for those plastic jui-, whatever.

It'll be on social media, friends.

Look at.

But, um.

I, it took me back to my time enjoying those juices as well.

And I'm happy that Willow was.

I know she was enjoying it because they're delicious.

That's lovely.

I have another, yet another spinoff idea with Giles.

Uh, but did you ever hear of the story Pen, uh, the show Pennyworth?

Nnno.

So it's about, it's basically a prequel to Batman about, uh, Alfred

Pennyworth, um, the Butler Alfred.

Yeah.

Because it is in, in some of the comics it does mention his like

special, English special forces, forces training, and that kind of thing.

And we see briefly towards the end when, um, and this, I think this is

a significant moment between Buffy and Giles, cause it's kind of his,

kind of his first like parental talk.

Like consoling her after, and again, and it's consoling after a very

normal thing of like, and a very mature thing of her choosing not to

stay with Owen because she probably thought she blew it and then didn't.

She could have just been like, cool, guess I can still date him.

And no, she, she stepped back and took the very mature move.

And he mentions, I was called, my parents told me that I was destined

to be a Watcher at the age of nine.

Nine?

Mmm.

Jeezle-Petes, like, I think I still thought I was going to

be a Spice Girl at nine, you know?

Yeah.

So, so thinking about that, what other stuff does that mean for

Giles's life growing up before he gets to be a 40-something

librarian in Sunnydale, California?

You know, from age nine to whatever, what does Watcher training look like?

You know, did he grow up with other members of the

- Nick Mercer: always wondered that.

You know, I think that would be such a great prequel to explore.

And I think there would be so much there.

And we do see in later seasons, when we see more of the Watcher's

Council, there are female Watchers.

So there could be absolutely more diversity and there's

Watchers from all over the globe.

And I wonder like what else they're doing throughout the year?

Cause you know, there's only one Slayer.

So what work do they have?

There's one Slayer and one Watcher who's with that Slayer.

So what are the rest of them doing this whole other time?

I've always wondered that too!

Yeah, that would be so interesting to explore.

Well, she calls them out on it later, which is bad ass.

I fucking love it.

Cause they deserve it.

But it's interesting.

That is really interesting.

What an interesting thought experiment.

I don't want Joss Whedon to do it, cause fuck that dude, somebody

else, somebody else do it.

Um, some female writer.

Oh yeah.

Uh, maybe a person of color.

I think they could do a great job with it.

And it could be maybe an HBO Max show?

You know, cause they're doing

- Nick Mercer: could star Allie Press.

Oh yeah.

I could do that.

Um, I wrote down similar kudos for Giles in this scene, especially

as kind of scoldy as he's been during the episode, this is just a really

nice, like he's not just some sort of trainer or some sort of teacher.

He really is a parental figure.

And that's really nice.

Yeah.

And he does have a good moment of, you know, admitting

his, his lack of knowledge.

He says, you know, I don't have a manual for how to actually do this.

So I love, I love that admittance because I think, I think it's important to take

responsibility and, accountability.

All good things.

And then at the end, I just think they did such a good job

with the Anointed One bait and switch.

So it wasn't actually the crazy dude.

It was, it was the kid in the bus.

Yeah.

And this whole Anointed One, like the existence of the Anointed

One stuff ends up having a very interesting arc between season one

and season two, which we'll see later.

Mhm.

Yeah, so th, that's a very interesting journey and I

do, I do love a bait and switch.

Um, and I do love what that says, maybe even in the greater, like, metaphor

of Buffy of like the things that end up being a big deal to you aren't

always what you think are gonna be.

Yeah, hadn't thought about it that way.

I just, in this moment, thought of that.

Allie, you brilliant, beautiful bitch.

How bout that alliteration, huh?

I love me some alliteration.

Almost as profound as your point.

Um, so, uh, the only other fun fact I have about this episode as I was

doing research, I didn't know this.

Owen, in the original script, his name was Chambers?

And I am glad they changed it to Owen.

I don't know why they changed it.

That was his first name?

That was his, yeah, Owen was initially named Chambers as he

was identified in the - Owen Thurman!

Yeah.

Thurman Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They talk about that in the cafeteria.

There you go.

Yeah.

Ooh.

I mean, I, I can sort of get where it's supposed to be this sort of like

eclectic, you know, to go with his whole like moody personality, but yeah.

Owen is much better.

Um, anyways, what are your favorite quotes, Allie?

I think it- Yeah think we, we definitely mentioned,

yeah, we mentioned all of mine.

We hit all of mine.

Well, a moral of the story that I saw, and I wonder if you saw

any others, Allie, just this idea that you're going to have to make sacrifices

one day and it's not going to be fair.

sucks.

It's not fair.

And that's life.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, we, I don't think I've ever had to make any sacrifices

or make any choices, such that if I don't do it somebody's going to die.

But, but, that's the great part about Buffy is that we can still

relate to pieces of it, even if it's not, you know, a direct one-to-one.

Because there have been times where it's just not fair you have

to do something and that you still to do it and that's just life.

And that sucks.

Yeah.

You can't have it all.

I definitely like, you know, I feel like a lot of kids end up going through

this, when you're a little kid and you don't have homework and shit,

like you can do 1,000,001 activities.

And then you get older and eventually you have to like

drop some of those activities.

And that ends up sucking.

And I miss, I miss gymnastics.

That's one of them.

That's like the one that got away.

Hmm.

You're learning how to crack a whip.

You can always revisit gymnastics if you want to.

Das.

True.

Also, you know, pole dancing.

So that's one of my, my current hobbies.

One day when we're allowed to go places and exercise without a mask

and touch things without washing our hands 10 times, then I'll be

able to go to outside activities instead of just working out at home.

How about that?

What a day it will be.

What a day, what a day.

Well, uh, Nicholas, shall we, shall we wrap this mutha up?

Let's wrap this mutha up!

All right.

I think that about does it for this episode.

Thank you so much for joining us and we hope you'll join us again for

our next episode where we'll discuss season one, episode six, "The Pack."

And if you are just too excited to wait until our

next episode to chat, send us an email at tabularasabpod@gmail.com.

And you can also say hello to us on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook at

@tabularasabpod, spelled the same way.

Allie!

Yes!

Where can people find you on social media?

Well, Nick, they can find me at @Daughterpick on Twitter and Instagram.

That's D-A-U G-H-T E-R P-I-C-K.

And they can find me on TikTok as @futureblackcat.

And oh!

If you would like to support me in my journey as a budding artist, hungry actor,

you know, you can toss me a couple bucks over at BuyMeACoffee.com/AlliePress.

You can join one of the memberships and read more about what my journey

has been like as a young actor.

And folks, let me just tell you, Allie's Not-So-Weekly Updates are

amazing, engaging, love them every time.

Totally check them out.

And if you didn't catch any of that, don't worry.

All of our social media handles are in the description.

Until next time, Allie, I love you very much.

I love you.

Make some proud choices.

Yes, folks, make proud choices.

Mwah!

[Outro Music slowly fades in.]

Tabula Rasa, B!tches!

is hosted by Allie Press and Nick Mercer with music by InflatonCult,

artwork by Charlotte Fleming Design, and consultation by Evo Terra.