Episode 19 of Jersey Justice Podcast™: Understanding Premises Liability in Apartment Complex Injuries in New Jersey
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Welcome to Jersey Justice, a
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practical tips and stories about
personal and workplace injuries.
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Morris of Clark Law Firm, as they take
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What happens when someone gets
injured in their apartment
building our apartment complex?
So i'm here with mark and jerry And
I want to talk to them and see What
their thoughts are on this, because
I think there's a lot of injuries
that happen in apartment complexes.
And when you think about it, it's the
responsibility of the property management
company or the landlord to create a
safe environment for all the residents.
But as we know, that
doesn't always happen.
So I'd love to hear some stories
from you guys, or maybe any cases
that you've heard about or worked on
where the apartment complexes were
at fault and people got injured.
Like what happened?
Well, the thing with apartment
complexes is so it's no different than
any other premises liability case.
A premises liability case is where
someone gets hurt on someone's
property, whether it's at like a
restaurant, a business, someone's home.
So basically anyone one.
That owns property.
Generally speaking, it's supposed to
make sure that the property is reasonably
safe for anyone that comes on there.
So premises liability cases are
basically where there's a property owner.
Anyone that owns property, whether
it's a business or a house or
an apartment complex is supposed
to keep the property reasonably
safe for anyone that comes on it.
And it's basically a public
policy thing to make sure that
people aren't needlessly injured.
So, you know, if you're a business
owner or a homeowner, Um, you have
to keep it reasonably safe and
there's like different levels of
safety depending on who's on there.
And, uh, one way, uh, I can talk
about the different levels of safety
or the different level of care that's
required is that movie Liar Liar.
I, I don't like the idea of the movie,
like Liar Liar, like lawyers are liars.
Definitely, we've experienced a lot of,
uh, lawyers that lie in, in litigation
or in cases and they twist reality so
much that it rises to the level of a lie.
But I, it's the funniest thing
because it's like, you're not
allowed to call someone a liar.
It's like a super harsh thing.
I don't know.
You have to use other words like, Oh,
misrepresented or not based in the record.
Generally, if you call someone
a liar, it's kind of a turnoff.
But anyway, there's that movie liar, liar.
And there's that funny part in it
where, um, the secretary is like
mad at him and he can't lie anymore.
And the secretary, the secretary's
mad because someone broke into her
apartment and got injured and sued
her, the secretary, the guy that
broke in that was trying to rob her.
And, um, and I forget what man is like,
it's like I had to pay him 20, 000
and, and, uh, um, Jim Carrey and Liar
Liar is like, I would've got him 50.
It's kind of a funny thing.
Um, but what that relates to apartment
comp, first of all, in that movie, like
I think she said, I had to pay him money.
The way that works is she
wouldn't have had to pay anything.
It's always, not always, but almost always
on the list or something unusual happens.
It's almost always the insurance.
If you own a home, it's a homeowner's
insurance would pay the case and
pay for the lawyers and renters
should get renter's insurance.
But anyway, the reason that relates
to it is because different people
on the property, depending on
their status on the property, and
depending on what state it happens
in, there's a different level of care.
So business invitees, which are people
that go onto a property, meaning
go to a store to buy something,
they're called business invitees.
Or if you go to a show, you go
to a concert, you'd be like a
business invitee because you're...
There is part of business.
You're paying something.
They're owed the highest level of care.
And then you have people called invitees
were Licensees where you're allowed
to come on the premises, but you're
not paying anything for it And then
the people that get the lowest level
of care meeting the case would be the
hardest to prove is trespassers So in
liar liar in that situation the guy that
was robbing it would would be called
the trespasser But in reality the guy
who was robbing Her apartment complex
where she lived, no lawyer would take
that case, at least not any lawyers I
know, because it would be super hard.
I like that story.
I think the audience will like that story.
Yeah, so, you know, it's not terribly
unique for apartment complexes.
Um, one thing that can get kind of
edgy about it is if there's a community
association that runs it, like if
there's a management association.
So what happens is if
you're a member of like a.
condo association, there would be like
a condominium association that runs it.
Then they may have, um, they have
what's called bylaws and all this stuff.
And that document is super important
to look at that, to determine what
the rights are and the liabilities are
of the people that live in the condo
as against the condo association.
But it's all important stuff
because people have died from.
Businesses not keeping a safe
premises and got really injured.
And when people get injured, like
I had a call with a woman yesterday
on a case, a potential case.
And she's like, I'm a single
mom, you know, I teach.
Now I have this, you know, horrible
pulmonary injury from what happened.
And I'm the only breadwinner in the house.
And you know, they, they go on and on.
I'm like, listen, I get it.
I've been doing these cases a long time.
I really understand how this
affects your life and everything.
So you could joke and say, Oh, it's not
really terribly exciting or who cares
about this, unless it happens to you.
Um, but I know Mark has an interesting,
uh, story in terms of, it's not so
much an apartment complex, but it's
very similar because it dealt with,
um, like a negligent security thing
and connection with a mall in Marlton.
And there's this interesting story
Mark probably has about that if he
remembers where the person got mugged
by, I think it was like a meth addict
or a heroin addict or something.
Yeah, it was, it was two heroin addicts
that were like casing out an area.
Jerry's right, like we could try
pretty hard to make apartment
complex cases sound interesting.
I, you know, personally found the
classification of trespasser versus
invitee, you know, breathtaking.
But that, that really is the law.
Sometimes there's aspects
of it that are really dry.
Then there's aspects like the story
aspects that are, that can be fascinating.
I did an apartment case where a nice
young lady tripped and fell down a
stairwell that didn't have proper
lighting and the stairway was too steep.
She hurt her ankle.
Like that's kind of about as exciting
as a apartment complex case can get.
Um, unless it's one, I think that Jerry's
kind of mentioning segwaying into,
which is more like negligent security.
Cases, which is like a fancy way of
saying something really bad happened,
almost with like a criminal, criminal
element to it, uh, to someone
and they got hurt like real bad.
I'll give you guys some examples
and you guys can give me your, you
know, professional legal opinion.
Like what if you live in an apartment
complex and it's like a luxury
complex and then there's like door
doors that go into the garage and
there's plenty of doors in these
doors because they are key fob access.
And they've been broken for
weeks because the company says,
Oh, we have to order a part.
We don't have the part in
stock, blah, blah, blah.
And then while meanwhile, the people
who live in the apartment complex
are complaining, complaining because
they're worried for their safety.
Now, hypothetically, if somebody happened
to come into the building and do something
and someone got injured, Wouldn't that
be a pretty big liability on part of the
management, property management company
for not fixing that in a timely manner.
So one of the things that you
said in there, I think would kind
of be key to a case like that.
A lot of times we have to worry
about notice and knowledge.
Like basically, was it
foreseeable that something bad.
Could have happened and then was there
complaints or were there complaints about
the condition that made it potential
for this dangerous thing to happen?
So if there's records, if people
have documented, if it's, you know,
comes out in discovery that there's
been complaints like, hey, we're
concerned about this, can you fix this?
It doesn't get fixed.
Um, that that can be a pretty good case.
But a lot of times what the law looks
for is like, what's fair, what's.
What's like foreseeable?
Like, would it be foreseeable that if
those locks are broken that someone could
break into the complex and hurt someone?
So, if there's been complaints and
people saying, hey, we're concerned
for our safety, like, that's a plus.
That's definitely something
that's really helpful.
If there have been other violent crimes in
the area, like that's extremely helpful.
And then the most helpful is all of
all would be like if something similar
had happened before to that complex,
and they haven't changed anything
or done anything different about it.
And so that a lot of times, like.
You know, in the law, like there's
different things like New Jersey with
dog bites, you don't get like one free
bite before the owner of the dog's
responsible, like if the dog bites someone
and they get injured, that's a case,
it's strict liability with like products.
If somebody gets hurt using a product,
it's not like, well, you know, we didn't
know that someone could gotten hurt
because no one's gotten hurt before.
Like, you don't get 1 free injury before
there's a, there's a case, but with
negligent security, it's a little bit.
Touchier because like if I'm in the
nicest neighborhood in the world and you
know, that's where my apartment is and
there's been no issues before and I walk
outside and someone mugs me and I break
my collarbone and, you know, I have to
get surgery that could be a really tough
case if there's no prior records, if there
was anything, if there's no complaints
about dangerous things, like if there's
the big thing is in a lot of these
negative security cases is we want to get
like the records of criminal activity.
So like the case Jerry's talking about, it
was this really nice, like open air mall.
It was high end stores.
Um, you know, it was like an Apple
store, probably like American Eagle,
whatever you think of when you
think of like higher end stores.
And it's like particular night, they were
putting on a summer concert event series.
And it's not like they've got
like Metallica or some huge band.
It was like.
Probably a little band
there for like kids.
And, um, it brought on like a few
more people to watch this event.
And so this mall knew that like,
by putting this event on, that
they'd get more guests, um, and all
this, and that's why they did it.
So they get more guests,
they can make more money.
And so we, you know, we took the
deposition and I asked like, okay, so
you guys put this event on, like, what
steps did you make sure that like this.
Heightened influx of people
were, were going to be safe.
And they're like, well, you
know, we didn't really do much.
We just talked to the, the two
security guards that were on duty.
We told him just to patrol the perimeter.
So I'm like, all right, great.
Is that written anymore?
Are there post orders?
Like, how is that communicated?
They're like, Oh, we just,
uh, we just told him.
We're like, okay.
So I took the security guards
step and the guy's like, how much
longer am I going to be here?
Like, you know, I thought he was going
to topple over during the deposition.
So this is the security company
that he got out and hired.
Um, so with that case,
there were two targets.
Is it that the guy that would drive
around in the maintenance truck or
something, a maintenance man doubling
as the security guard for the place?
They literally had a maintenance truck
and they just take this like Amber light
and stick it on top and drive around.
And that was supposed to be security.
And, uh, there were two targets,
like two main sets of defendants.
In that case, it was like the mall itself.
Because they're the premise that
like the property owner, they have a
duty similar to an apartment complex
to keep the property safe from
unreasonably dangerous conditions.
Um, and then they're the security
guards themselves since they'd gone out,
they've been brought in to do a service.
They have to follow the standards
in their field, make sure they don't
deviate from the standards and they're
doing what they're supposed to be
doing, which is providing security.
So it turned out for this, um, this
summer concert event, these two security
guards there, their orders from the
general manager, whose experience was
like she had worked at a banana Republic
for a couple of years before the, like,
general manager said, all right, I
want you guys to patrol the perimeter.
So these guys, what they were doing
is it came out through the deposition.
Um, I was like, all right, where
were you when the event occurred?
They were like, Oh, we're standing.
You know, watching the concert and I
was like, so what was your back to that?
Well, our back was,
was to everything else.
And then the other guy, I was like,
all right, well, what was your role?
He's like, well, we were supposed
to be going like opposite ways.
So we had the perimeter covered.
The whole time.
And it's like, all right, was
your attention supposed to be
on the crowd at the concert?
No, it was to patrol the perimeter.
Where were you at the time of the event?
I was watching the concert.
Where was the other security guard?
Oh, he was right next to me.
How long were you guys in that position?
And they were there for
like 15 or 20 minutes.
Tell them the event though.
Everyone wants to know what
actually, what was the story?
It's pretty bad.
This is the, this is the, the long buildup
to, so you've got these two security
guards standing, watching this concert.
They're back to the mall.
That they're supposed to be patrolling
and this very, very lovely, I
don't want to do her disservice.
I think she was 80 years old.
And if not, she's pretty close.
This 80 year old, a woman had gone
out to dinner with her friend.
Friend's name was probably like
Dorothy or Gertrude or something.
It really, I think was one of those names.
She was just this adorable lady.
Yeah, I think it was Mildred.
Like it, honestly, it's one of those,
one of those names that when you hear
your friend name their daughter, you
know, Gertrude or something, you're
like, is that name coming back?
It could have been Mil,
it could have been.
Um, yeah, it could have been
Mildred or, yeah, . Yeah.
It's like Eleanor.
I don't know.
And she sounds like such a sweet lady.
She, honestly, it was, and again.
Like a lot of times in this job, like you
have to put yourself in the client's shoes
and be able to like empathize with them.
This was not difficult.
It, this was the sweetest old lady.
Her husband cared for her so much.
Like, but so this woman's out
to dinner with her friend.
They, I forget where they had gone,
but they're leaving the restaurant.
She's got her purse around her arm.
And these, they were
like, like heroin addicts.
They had been on this like crime spree and
they were casing out the area for a while.
And they were casing the area.
A couple people around the mall had
noticed them suspicious characters.
They made note of it, but the
security guards are supposed to
be patrolling, never saw them
because they weren't patrolling.
So these heroin addicts that have like
been casing out the area, see this
little old lady leaving the mall or
leaving the restaurant, like sprint up.
One guy goes to grab her purse
and it's like attached to her arm.
So when he pulls her down, her
shoulder breaks, her hip breaks.
She's getting dragged along while
this guy's trying to steal her, uh,
steal her purse, eventually gets
it, gets free, uh, and runs away.
She was in the hospital
for, I think it was weeks.
She ended up getting MRSA, like.
Um, it was, it was horrible, but so
she ended up with a broken shoulder.
Remember she had grip issues.
She then had all these
different ways to open things.
Her husband had to help her
like Cook her hip being broken.
I didn't even realize that this is the
it's like medieval the the treatment for
a broken hip Is they essentially put you
in like traction with a pulley system?
Like essentially pulling your like
leg back into place like back into
the socket It's it's wild but so you
can imagine for an 80 year old woman
having broken shoulder broken hip
Um, multiple, multiple infections.
It was a horrible, horrible ordeal.
Um, hurt really, really bad.
And the tough thing in a case like that is
like, like, what's your instinct to blame?
Like, I've talked a lot about the
security guards in the mall, but
like, it's your instinct to be
like, well, who, who did what wrong?
It's like the criminal, the guy that
grabbed her purse and pulled her down
and broke her arm and like her hip.
So in negligent security cases, it's like
that a lot of times is the main defense.
They'll be like, Oh, it's
the criminal's fault.
Like, what were we supposed to do?
And that's where it kind of ties back
into the things like, like foreseeability
and what's the standard of care.
And we did, it was an Oprah request
for anything relating to like
crime in the area, and I'm pretty
positive that I got two things.
One of them was that there was graffiti.
Like, on certain areas of the mall,
um, I, I got them to admit that,
like, you know, graffiti were like,
signs of like, criminal activity.
It's like a broken windows theory,
um, and they were like, yeah, so
we're aware that that was going on.
And there was like a theft at an
apple store, like somebody like
shoplifted and like those 2 events,
the defendants filed a motion to get
out of the case to dismiss the thing.
Like, those 2 events were enough for the
judge to say that it was foreseeable that
something like that could have happened.
So the case survived this summary judgment
motion to have the thing thrown out.
And actually, I remember Jerry
and I split the arbitration.
I think I did liability.
He did damages and it ended up
being, I don't want to misquote it.
What was it like?
It's like a 2, 000, 000 or something,
like 2, 000, 000 plus like ARB award.
Um, I've been one, I'm confusing my
millions these days, but, uh, it ended up
being like a really, really good award.
I think Jerry's pulling something up.
So these are the, these are the two perks.
Can you zoom into that a little bit
for the audience so they can see
what these characters look like?
And they were, you could see.
They appear to be, they're all like
withdrawing from the drugs they were on.
So yeah, and that like our whole theory
in the case too, is like, so if you
go out and hire a security firm, like
you have to, you've taken the step,
you recognize that there's something
potentially dangerous that could happen
on your property, but that's not enough.
You can't just go out and
hire a security company.
You have to communicate to
them what they should be doing.
That's not to say that they need
to be like an expert in security
or what, but, you know, there
were no written protocols there.
Like, I think the operations manual
for the security company itself
said, like, we never want two
people standing next to each other.
That doesn't accomplish like our goals.
Um, and then for the security
company itself, it's like, well,
there's a standard of care,
like they were told what to do.
They didn't follow it.
So they ended up splitting it.
I think it was actually, it was a million.
I think they split it like 500,
000 each, if I recall correctly.
Um, to pay it out, which for, you know,
someone in their 80s who went through
something pretty horrible, like that,
that was pretty, uh, that was pretty good
compensation, especially given the case
had gone to trial and the defendant, the
actual criminals had gone on the verdict
sheet, you know, a jury could have put 100
percent liability on them or 80 percent
liability on them, whatever it may be.
And there we wouldn't be
able to collect on that.
There would be no assets.
There would be no, like nothing
to collect, but that's like
for apartment complexes.
It's the same thing.
So with liability, they have to have
reasonable security and all that stuff.
So I don't know if that's if
that is in any way making.
Well, yeah apartment apartment complex
discussions anyway interesting but I
think mark's story was very interesting
and i'm laughing on the inside because
whatever he Described as an actual real
life scenario partially in the sense
where when mark when you said They knew
that there was going to be a concert
across the streets They knew that there
would be increased traffic in the area.
So the real life story like Where I live,
there's literally a concert place, I
can see it from my office right now, out
the window, and, and we've been saying,
get more security, get more security,
and they did get security, right?
I don't know if it's going to be there
all the time, but doors not being fixed
and all that, because you know, It's when
you have a large venue that attracts a
lot of people from all over a city to
come to one place and there's a parking
structure attached to apartment complex
where people are going to try to park
and go into so we did our little own
snooping around we went to go talk to the
security officer to see because we want
to know if we Or being kept safe or not.
So the security officer was like not
letting, she was doing a good job, right?
But was she there the whole,
the next time there was there?
She wasn't there.
So what happened to the
building hiring people?
Um, another scenario, an older lady, she
was walking her dog on the premises of
the building in the back where they have
like a walking area, but it's part of the
property owned by the apartment complex.
Well, the grass was really high.
Because there's a ton of
construction around and there's
like, like a hole in the ground.
So her foot, when she stepped, because
she couldn't see it, she stepped in the
hole, she fell, she broke her wrist.
I actually took her to the
emergency room and helped her out.
And in my opinion, and of course, I'm
going to think in lawyer terms, right?
She literally could sue them if she
wanted to, but she's like, no, but like
what's your thought on that liability?
It's not never clear cut, right?
Like we can say did she fall because
a dog pulled the leash too hard.
Now, there's cameras around, but
what do you guys think of that?
Because I'm just curious now how do
you like, things are never cut and dry.
Like last time we talked about the
automobile accidents and the camera,
the dash cam, they're never cut and dry.
For the audience, how do you guys
go and determine who's really at
fault and proving like, hey, they,
they were liable department complex.
Yeah, so I think we touched on
this before to the only wrinkle
kind of, or not only, but a wrinkle
with department complex cases.
I know for a fact with the condo.
Potential condo association cases.
Is those bylaws, like it depends a
lot of times, like what those bylaws
say, like in New Jersey, sometimes
it could say like gross negligence,
which is a slightly higher standard
of care than the negligence, um, that
you could sue for it all depends.
Like, I hate to give the politician,
like lawyer answer of like, it
depends, but it really does like,
like saying someone fell in a hole
that was obscured by like tall grass.
There's so many different little variables
was that hole on the apartment complex,
like property, whose responsibility
is it to maintain the grass?
Um, is there like an outside,
you know, is there like a, uh,
agreement between like a maintenance
company and the apartment complex?
Is the whole itself, does that
constitute like an unreasonably dangerous
condition or like a dangerous condition?
And then, yeah, you're right.
If she's walking along in broad daylight
and like trips and falls in this whole.
Not carrying anything like that's one
set of facts if it's nighttime she falls
It's a different set of facts like her
dog pulling her because what happens
is even if you then have like say it's
cut and dry That hole's dangerous.
It shouldn't be there.
We know who put it there.
Um, and they didn't do anything about it.
It's like, all right, that's great.
And then what about the plaintiff?
Did the plaintiff do anything wrong?
Should the person that's suing, should
they have been doing anything different?
Were they carrying too much
stuff, like walking their dog?
Because then sometimes that can poke
away at potential liability there.
Again, it like really depends.
That's like the classic, give
the example like being at a bar.
Someone comes up and like,
hey, my friend's got this case.
And it's like, well, what happened?
And they're like, they fell in a hole.
Outside their apartment complex.
Like, is that a case?
And it's like, I don't know.
Tell him to give us a call.
We'll take a look at it and figure it out.
But there's just, there's so much to it.
That's a great answer, Mark,
because that's what people can see.
There's a lot that goes into, you
know, handling cases behind the scenes.
It's never cut and dry.
There's like a million
factors to consider.
So I think that's what the audience
can take away from From this, you know,
this comment that we're talking about
and different attorneys to different
law firms will have different views on
cases, like, even internally, we'll talk
through cases like one person might see
it one way another, you know, another way.
And there's all these little different.
Nuances to it that there there
really is no just cut and dry.
Thanks so much for sharing that.
I think that's a great, you know, scenario
and example for people to understand.
Um, 1 final question and then
we'll kind of wrap this thing up.
What happens if someone is injured
outside of their apartment complex,
but within a few, let's say, 500
feet, does that still count as.
Being on the property or not, and I'm
sure you're going to say the same thing.
There's probably many different factors,
but what are some of those factors?
So under it, it depends.
It all depends on the law of the state.
Um, it just depends.
And like Mark said, there's so
many different variables and stuff.
But one of the biggest variables
to prevailing on a case like this
is to get the right lawyer that
knows how to do these cases and has
experience and experience in trying
cases and getting verdicts and stuff.
That's that's a enormous factor.
Um, there's only so much the lawyer
can do, and it's a big, it's a big
factor, but it's not everything.
Um, But anyway, under New
Jersey law, it, it depends.
So for example, if generally with an
apartment complex, it would be hard to
envision a scenario where someone injured
off the premises of the apartment of
the apartment would have a claim against
the apartment, but there are cases.
So, for example.
If there's a dedicated parking area
across the street from the apartment,
and let's say it's not on the apartment's
premises, but the apartment knows that
visitors always park there, let's say
it's some open lot or something or some
somewhat abandoned lot, for example,
and the apartment knows that their
invitees or their vacationers park there.
People that visit the apartment will park
there a lot, but there's not a safe way to
get from the parking lot to the apartment.
Then there could be liability if the
person gets hurt crossing the street or
if there's like an adjacent parking lot
and then there's a pathway to get to the
apartment and same scenario they know.
But there's like a dangerous pathway
or jagged rebar sticking up, then
that's a scenario where off premises
they could potentially be responsible.
But I think as far as like a closing
thought, um, I would say that if,
if you, um, you know, if you own
an apartment complex, keep it safe.
You know, do use common sense, be
reasonable, get proper security,
especially depending on if
you're in a more crime area.
And if you're living in an apartment
complex, you know, get renter's
insurance, or if you own an apartment
in an apartment complex, make
sure you have liability insurance.
And everyone should just, uh, be
safe, you know, to try to prevent
getting involved in a lawsuit.
Thank you, Jerry.
Mark, any, any last thoughts?
And if, if there are dangerous conditions
or things going on in your apartment
complex, like document it, report it,
um, because that can be really helpful
down the road, like saying, oh, hey,
there was this dangerous thing for a
long time is way different than saying,
hey, there was this dangerous condition.
Here's this email that I sent
to the apartment complex owner.
They didn't do anything about it.
Um, cause like Jay said, yeah,
that's a great, that's a great point.
If you know something's going on in
your apartment complex, send an email,
document it because if something happens,
like that's huge evidence, like Mark
said, yeah, that's a really great tip.
Thank you guys so much.
We will see you next time.
And if you guys have questions
for us, do not forget to go to
questions at Jersey justice podcast.
com and we may answer them live.
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