Kendall Harrell is a Minneapolis-based C-level HR leader with extensive experience across various industries. In his more than twenty years in human resources, he has helped organizations build, refine, and execute integrated talent strategies…and work in a good laugh from time to time.

 An anchoring value of his is to “bring others along”. It informs the way he leads and how he inspires other leaders to do the same. He cares deeply about the success of others and responsibility leadership teams have to take care of the business by taking care of the people. 

Today's chat is all about shaking things up in the workplace because let’s be real—it's high time we start rethinking how we do things! We're diving headfirst into the future of work, where traditional norms are being tossed out the window, and I’m here for it. Our guest, Kendall Harrell, brings some serious insights from his years of experience in HR, highlighting how those comfy, old-school practices might just be holding us back. He argues that a little discomfort could spark innovation and growth, and you know what? I couldn't agree more! So, buckle up as we explore how leaders can step up, embrace change, and actually listen to what their teams want, all while keeping it real and fun.

Takeaways:

• This episode dives into how traditional work culture norms are being challenged, especially in the US, which could lead to exciting changes.
• The importance of discomfort in the workplace is emphasized, as it can lead to growth and necessary re-evaluations of business practices.
• Leaders are encouraged to listen to their employees and adapt to their needs, ensuring a balanced employer-employee relationship.
• The discussion highlights the potential for positive change in work environments, driven by employee engagement and community building.
• Kendall shares his journey from fitness to HR, illustrating that career paths can be unpredictable but rewarding when pursued with passion.
• The impact of recent social movements on workplace policies, focusing on transparency and employee rights, is explored as crucial for future work dynamics.

Links referenced in this episode:

• Kendall's Linked In Page
• Kent's Linked In Page
• https://kent.coach

Buckle up, folks! We’re on a wild ride through the shifting sands of the work landscape, and guess what? Kendall Harrell is our trusty guide. In this chat, we grapple with some big ideas like the need for discomfort in a world where comfort has been the norm for too long. Kendall breaks down how traditional workplace expectations, like always being in the office and keeping quiet about pay, are being challenged—and honestly, it’s about time! We’re tackling the tough stuff here, from unions on the rise to the need for leaders to actively listen to their teams. The episode shines a light on the importance of allowing employees to voice their needs and frustrations, because if we’re not careful, we could see social movements popping up in response to workplace inequities. So, whether you’re climbing the corporate ladder or supporting someone who is, this episode is jam-packed with insights that'll help you understand how to thrive in the new era of work. It's not just about making it through the day; it’s about making a real impact and pushing for change.

**Music for this podcast comes from the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on PertNeaerSandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.**

What I'm most excited about, though, is that it feels like just about everything's on the table. That some of the mainstays that have become kind of an orthodox of our work culture in the US in particular are being challenged.

And, you know, for that reason, you know, some of those provided security and kind of safety and comfort in how we run our businesses and lead teams. But I think it's time for a little discomfort.

Hi there and welcome to the Step Up Expert Voices for Leadership Growth. I'm your host, Kent Knievel. Every week I talk to experts who focus on helping leaders step up their leadership game.

If you're new to the show, then on whatever platform you're using, I encourage you to subscribe so you never miss an episode. One last thing.

As a leadership development consultant and executive coach, I have a particular interest in supporting, supporting recent internally promoted leaders.

If that's you, or if you support a leader who has been recently promoted, I encourage you to visit my website at Kent Coach Playbook and download a free copy of my 90 day blueprint filled with practical advice for you or the leader you support in hitting the ground running and truly stepping up to their new leadership level. Without further ado, on with the show. Welcome, everyone. Welcome. Today we're going to be talking about the future of work.

And with me to help us through this conversation or be a part of this conversation conversation today is Kendall Harrell. He's a Minneapolis based C suite HR leader. He's had a couple decades worth of experience leading various parts of hr.

So I'm really thrilled to have you here today, Kendall, and I appreciate you being a part of the podcast.

Oh, I'm honored to do it. Thanks. Thanks for asking me. This is great.

Yeah. Well, I don't want to tell your story for you, so I'd love to just start with, tell us a little bit more about Kendall.

How did you get into the line of work you're in? How did you. How did I sweet talk you into being on the other side of this interview today?

Well, you know, HR people, we, we look for every opportunity to talk. So. Yeah, that was. You didn't have to twist my heart. My arm. Very hard. Yeah, you know, I, I didn't, I didn't grow up in hr.

I actually thought I was going to be an athletic trainer working with a professional athletic team or college athletics.

Nice.

Potentially even be an orthopedic surgeon. I just, just fascinated by the human body and in its, its capability. But, you know, once I, once I got in the job Market.

I found out pretty quickly that those jobs are not. Those opportunities aren't a dime a dozen. And I had a difficult time getting into that network. Hmm. So I.

I found my way to Lifetime Fitness for my first job really as a personal trainer. And, you know, I. I found myself once I kind of really understood, you know, how to be successful in that, in that role.

I just kind of, you know, accelerated pretty quickly that organization and went up to the business ranks and I was working the fitness division. And, you know, I was lucky enough to have a really great mentor at Lifetime at the time, Andrew Robinson, still, still in hr.

And he gave me an opportunity to work in recruiting. And, you know, I didn't know what I was doing, but he said, you're smart, you'll figure it out. Which has kind of been the story of my life.

And, you know, it was great. You know, that kind of moved me into other opportunities within hr, organizational development and org effectiveness.

You know, I continued with some responsibility with recruiting and corporate recruiting, you know, getting into employee relations and project management. HR technology, like, really started to kind of grab. Grab a hold of these building blocks of hr. Total rewards, compensation, mostly.

Nice.

And then, you know, throughout, I kind of realized that I wanted to take this as far as I possibly could. And, you know, I think I was probably in my early 30s when I decided, oh, I was younger than that. I don't know if I was 30 yet.

And I said I wanted to be a chro before I'm 50, not knowing what that meant, not knowing. You know, you might as well said, I want to be an astronaut. Like it was that it felt like that far away from where I was at the time.

And, you know, over the course of my career has really just been about trying to get in. Put myself in positions where I'd have the opportunity to grow, to learn, you know, make mistakes. And, you know, I just.

I've had a really amazing career, I think, because of that. And, you know, I, I find.

I find the, The HR executive role, if, if you will, I find it to be far more rewarding than I ever thought I would, far more challenging than I thought I would, you know, and, you know, I'm. I'm excited to continue. Like, it's just.

Especially in this day and age, I think our topic will kind of speak to that because I think what's happening now is like, you know, it's easy, really.

Either really difficult to get people interested in building a career in hr, or they're completely fascinated by the opportunity that all of this kind of, kind of renaissance, if you will, is kind of created around us.

Yeah. Well, so before we get into our topic, great story. Because I was, I was at first I was wondering how, how did fitness lead into hr?

So lifetime fitness. That makes some sense to me. What have you found to be the most, especially in the executive roles you've been in?

So you said you found it to be more rewarding than you thought. So what. Yeah. What. What did you find to be the most? Or what have you found to be the most rewarding?

I think it just, it just taps into one of my core values. I think one thing that I learned from my father was his, his kind of mantra was bring others along. And I've kind of adopted that as well.

And what I, what I found is like the, the opportunity that I have to impact the career, Careers of others and, you know, give them opportunities for growth. Like make some of the things that.

Experiences that I went through that were some really difficult, make them less difficult for others, at least, you know, make them less of a mystery to, to others.

Yeah.

You know, the opportunity to influence the growth of an organization is just it. I just love it.

And I also appreciate in the responsibility that comes with if things go sideways, like, you gotta be willing to step up and, you know, take the lumps for it and.

But when things go really, really well, you also have to be equally as willing and eager to push that recognition to those people that are on your team, those folks that are executing the plan.

So I think, counter to what I think a lot of people may think looking at these roles, that it's not for everyone because you have to be willing to accept the responsibility for when a plan doesn't go as planned as you intend it to, but be again, equally as eager to push the recognition to others because they deserve it. You know, they really do.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah. So two, two things on that. Right.

One is, I think it's, it's easy for us to, I think everybody to forget to celebrate wins because we're like, right, let's just get on to the next thing.

So I think that's a good reminder and I think the other good reminder and what you're saying is, hey, HR are leaders within their own job, family as well. Right. Like, we're not just in service to the organization, which we certainly are, but I think it's a good reminder too.

In, hey, like, I'm leading in this area and there are people under me and how do I make their lives and journeys easier? I just, I Think it's a good reminder that you're human too.

I don't know why that's a, that's a touchy subject. But yeah, yeah, we are, we are human.

Well, so let's, let's dive into the future of work. It's an area that I think you've been doing a lot of thinking about and passionate about. So lead the way.

Oh, gosh. You know, Ken, to be honest with you, I feel like I have more questions than answers right now, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

Yeah, you know, I think what I'm most excited about though, is that it feels like just about everything's on the table, you know, that some of the mainstays that are become kind of an orthodox of our work culture in the US in particular are being challenged. And for that reason, some of those provided security and kind of safety and comfort in how we run our businesses and lead teams.

But I think it's time for a little discomfort. I think it's time for us to kind of rethink. And it's the same thing that you would do running a company when you have a long term strategy.

At some point on regular intervals, you need to come back and revisit that strategy.

You have to revisit, you know, your plan of action and say is, are these, is the same business, environmental, kind of economic environment still the same, you know, or have they as we. You would, you would predict they would. Have they changed?

And I think that is kind of, you know, we've been kind of casual, maybe a little lazy in regards to revisiting the state of work in the US And I think sometimes it takes a lot of social or maybe civil unrest to be a catalyst for that new thinking. And I think that's maybe where we are right now. I think we're seeing through a lot of cultural pressure and influence.

We're seeing things come out of it like pay transparency in ways that we, you know, we've never had or seen before. I think that's a good thing.

We're seeing, you know, additional laws, whether it be at the state level or municipality level, around, you know, safe and sick time and making sure that people have the ability to take care of the unpredicted things that happen in your, in your life without fear of losing your job.

Yeah, so.

So it's, I think we're just at a really interesting time, you know, still seeing sentiment around, you know, unions at kind of an all time high, you know, and I think for, for us we can either react to each of these little kind of clickbait, you know, news flashes, you know, they're, and they're material and they're, they're meaningful, but we can react to each of those. Or we could a step back and, okay, why, you know, what's the, what's the root cause of some of these things?

And, and you know, I would come back to what I think I mentioned earlier, which is I, I think our, we're operating in a different time. Yeah. The context around our businesses is, is different. It's changing.

Yeah. Well, I think if, you know, if we wheel it back really far, right.

To my parents, maybe even your parents generation, you know, I remember just growing up in grade school, right. And, and as you know, you're approaching graduating, thinking about what comes after graduation. Maybe that's college, maybe that's not.

You know, I remember the thinking really being, all right, maybe you go to college, but then you find a job at a company and you stay there forever grinding it out and the company will take care of you. Right. So both my parents, you know, worked for over 30 years for their employee respective employers before retiring.

And I remember the, just the kind of, the shock from my parents each time I changed, each time I changed jobs, for example, I'm like, why are you leaving or what? You know, you know, so I think that's one example that I've seen throughout my entire lifetime. Right. Is this, this change in. I think I would.

Even as we think about pensions and 401ks and the move from pensions to 401ks, for example, and the ever looming whether or not Social Security will ever be here for us, that has been at least talked at me for, you know, 20, 30 years. I would say that was one big major sort of employment contract that I've seen shift fully right. In my lifetime from work one place forever.

They will, they will take care of you. Right. And that agreement, you know, kind of shifting away, interestingly enough.

Like this is all just, you know, ubiquitous zoom and teams and things like that.

I got my master's in adult education, instructional design and online learning.

Yeah.

And the reason I did, because I was in training and development at the time and I was traveling all over the country, you know, to do these instructor led live, face to face workshops and training sessions. And I just knew that there was a cap to that, but I wanted to learn how might we do that?

Yeah. And now it's just the given, right?

Yeah, completely.

So what I want to pull back to is I feel like as we look at some of these other elements of. Of work. Right. Virtual hybrid, in person, pay, transparency, unions. Right.

I feel like there's been, especially in the last five, 10 years, there's been so much push and pull. Right. A lot of push for higher minimum wage, for example, or. Yeah, I feel like a number of years ago there was a lot of pullback from unions. Right.

And maybe we're still facing some of that. So I'm just kind of curious, like, what are the things that you're seeing over the last.

It's been a wild year in terms of policy and things like that coming out of Washington and you're bringing up like, the state of work and how there's a real. There's. I'm hearing you say there's opportunity. Right.

So I'd love for you to shed light on that because I think a lot of people are concerned right now.

Well, the reason I think this, it's a great opportunity for us is that as leaders, it gives us a reason to do the right thing by our people. And that doesn't mean everybody makes $500,000 a year. And I don't think that people are asking for that, you know, literally either.

I think, you know, where we are is reminding leaders that we, we have to listen to our people and we need to be mindful of the contract that, that we've established with them, which is, you know, we've established some clarity around what, what we need, like the. What we need to get from you by. By nature of your job. And we're going to, in return, we're going to give you this. Right.

So you have this very balanced equation that employer and employee has at Time of hire.

Well, what happens when the employee asks for something to do their job per the terms that we've agreed upon and they're not listened to or they're not appreciated for recognizing that, oh, I think there are tools that can do this better.

Well, now what I'm getting for that, it's imbalanced, you know, because now I can't do what you're asking me to do, and I'm only getting paid this to not do the job that I want to do, and I want to do it well. And conversely. Right.

That for leaders, if we find ourselves in a situation where with what we're giving is no longer in alignment with what we're getting. Right. Then we have an issue.

And we've established all of these things, whether it be performance management or PIPs or terminations or whatever, we have these tools at our disposal to address those things, including obviously performance management and deploy development, skill building and so forth. But we haven't really done a great job to give the employee the same tools. Right. So they feel kind of stuck.

So you can play this out when that happens in many cases now they don't trust their leader. Right. And so who will they talk to? Another employee that may be experiencing a similar experience. And so how do social movements start?

It starts by people feeling disenfranchised, and it could be one or several. And then they find others that have a similar experience. So now you don't have just the one voice, you have many.

And so that is their, that that's their only tool today is create a collective voice that creates more tension and adversity, adversarial relationship between employer and employee.

And if we're honest about it, then we should come, we should take a step back and say, okay, how do I make sure that our employees have tools not only to do their job, but when things aren't going well or they have questions about something, they have needs, how do we make sure that they have the tools to address the challenges that they're experiencing right now? Right. And which may just mean, you know, opening up your ears and listening people.

Yeah.

Right. So I know I'm making a very complex situation pretty simple, but I think, I think we try to over complicate things all too often.

And you know, I think this in the state of the US right now, I think shame on us if we create an environment where the only recourse that employees have is to find other employees that are feeling the same discomfort because there's no other way to resolve their Problems.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I kind of feel like what I'm hearing from you is there's certainly a lot of interesting whiplash I'm gonna say, coming out of Washington from certain policies and coaching a leader today who's, you know, his team's all over the place because of tariffs on, tariffs off, tariffs high, tariffs low.

But what I'm hearing you say is regardless of what's happening there, the employee kind of contract, the way work is done, that's still being managed today as it was six months ago. Right. And we still have the same challenges and opportunities today as we had.

Yeah. I think we are getting better.

Yeah.

I, I'm, I'm.

I am certainly on the optimist side of most issues, you know, but I do think that there were lessons that we, that we learned going through the pandemic that a lot of us forgot.

Yeah.

And I think at the root of that is we were forced in the situation to bring real clarity in what's important to priorities. And I think that unlocked a lot of employees on what they were focused on. Right. And, and so I, and if with that clarity, I can execute really well.

And, you know, we're not. There aren't any other distractions, like, am I showing up at, you know, 8 or 8:05, or am I you leaving the office before or after my boss.

Yeah.

Or, you know, am I spending too much time at the proverbial water cooler? You know what I mean?

Yeah.

But those, those distractions were gone. Now, I will also say, though, that I don't think that everyone did their best work remotely.

Sure.

I know a lot of folks did. I know I don't. And so I, so I.

My point, I'm being may ramble a little bit, but I think that the moral of this is that above all else, we as leaders need to bring clarity to the priorities for every single person that we employ and amongst ourselves as leaders. And I think that will drive. And by the way, that clarity is agnostic of what you turn your computer on or all of that, but that's a whole. Another.

Yeah, there is a big focus on that right now, though. Right.

Like, it's interesting to see the results that certain organizations had when everybody was remote and then having been through the, you know, preceding years of us quote unquote, coming out of the pandemic. Right. And I remember, I don't know how I felt like, I know we.

I was sitting in certain town halls and just remembering how much executives were commenting on, like, how nice it is for us all to be together again. And I knew that there were conversations that were being had at the executive level about how badly certain executives at least wanted everyone back.

Right. And so there's.

There was, I think over the last five years for, you know, let's just call it the last three years, there's been a lot of tension, I think, between employees saying, hoping that companies don't, you know, pull the lever and say, hey, everybody's coming back. And I think we've seen different decisions, mixture, you know, mixture of, you know, from a.

Everybody's coming back full time to, you know, different kinds of hybrid restrictions or, you know, tighter rules coming in. And I think it's just been an interesting time. Right.

Because on the one hand I can look at this and say, hey, I get that you have this giant facility that you are. And I'm thinking of bigger companies like I worked for. Right. Like you've got this giant facility.

You are paying to heat and cool that building year round and to keep that water or the grass, you know, outside looking great. So I can get the pull of, hey, if. If we have this giant asset and expense, and if we don't have people here, what are we, what are we doing?

Or even if we think to, like, downtown areas, you know, I'm certain there were certain lease agreements being made around occupancy. Right. And, you know, so how are we now getting people back?

But I feel like people are taking an all or nothing kind of approach, which I'm just curious what your reflection on that is.

It feels like instead of us doubling down on leadership and saying, if you're not getting the output from an employee or a team that you expect, then that's management, you need to dig in and have the tough conversation around what's expected and whether or not you're capable of delivering upon what's expected under whatever the current relation, you know, whatever the current agreement is about where you're based on which days. Right. Yeah. But I feel like so many orgs are just making this, like, let's just make it easy and then make a blanket decision.

Yeah, yeah. There are certainly those out there.

And, you know, I think all too often we try to make this topic a binary one, which is either your work from home or the office. And I know there are many organizations that have gone to a hybrid model. And I think what I would offer is that this is a.

Much like you said, this is a leadership issue or topic. But we can't act like we have different individuals doing different work in ways that they do it best differently.

So if, you know, depending on who I am, how I'm wired to be most productive, that's, that's one kind of criteria. The other is the work that I do. Right, that's another criteria.

You know, and then there is, you know, depending on the type of work that I'm doing at that time, that's another criteria.

So I think if we can do whatever we can to give employees real agency over their work, which comes back to clarity on the work itself and the priorities, a real recognition for what type of work do you do best in what environment?

Because if we're honest with ourselves, we, we may recognize that there are some things that I do that when I'm either at home or not in an office, I'll just say remote, I'm more efficient at them or I can actually do the work output itself is going to be better, or there are times when I need to be in an environment of inspiration or utility.

There may be particular utility that comes with your, the physical office space that allows you to do the work more efficiently or better or more collaboratively or that may be. So, you know, I, so I don't think there's a right answer that says one is better than the other.

I think the answer is we have to come back to being clear about the objects of the work. And you know, what we should really care about is how do we make sure that we deliver the best work and that our employees have agency in doing so.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so it may, it may seem like real pie in the sky kind of thing, but I don't, I don't, I don't believe that that's an unrealistic expectation for us.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and not to make this the remote work versus in person work debate episode, but I have one other question for you and then I'll.

We'll get off this topic in just a second. But you, you, I think you were at Caribou Coffee at, you know, kind of in the midst of coming out of the pandemic.

And I'd be just really curious to hear because not only, you know, is Caribou running retail coffee shops, but you also had manufacturing operation essentially as well. Right. So you're balance. You were, when you were there, you were balancing essential workers from, you know, non essential.

We'll just, I'll just make it real binary for us. But so how were you balancing coming out?

Because I think there's been some interesting conversation happening out there around the fairness of the fact that like you know, we've got frontline workers who have, have no choice but like I, I, I can't brew coffee for Caribou customers from my kitchen. Right. So my barista needs to be there. So before I Seymour, I just, I'm curious.

I'm sure there was plenty of conversation around I'll say equity, you know, or equality versus equity around location.

Well first, first what I'll say is I, I mean every opportunity I can to applaud the Caribou organization in which when I say that I mean the frontline baristas, the general managers to you know, the multi unit leaders and their directors and so forth.

I would say that I was so impressed with the, with how they showed up and the work they did because you know I think they, what they, what they heard from us was serve your community and serve your community in the safe way as possible. And we will. And tell us what you need to, to do that. Well, you know, and you know, you remember this.

It was very difficult to meet everyone's needs but you know we were activated so quickly on touchless payments and you know, moving to drive thru only and.

Things that were in the works. Right. Like these things were kind of in the.

Yeah, yeah, yeah it was, it was so impressive. But the, but the one thing they also heard was we don't care what your plan is. Forget, forget budget, forget like serve your community.

And you know we, our purpose statement is, I still say our, I left there about a year ago but our purpose was to create day making experiences that spark a chain reaction of good. And we went back and re emphasized that and they were just doing some really incredible things in their neighbor, in their communities.

You know, bringing canteens of coffee to first responders and taking care of you know, healthcare workers as they would come through the drive thru line. And you just knew that they were, they needed that coffee as bad as anyone on the planet.

Yeah, you know the, so I was just really impressed with them during that time and there was a level of I think real understanding on like what the assignment was.

You know our, our Roastery team, they were just phenomenal at safety measures and incorporating new safety, safety measures to make sure that everyone was safe.

And you know the you know those folks that weren't coming into the office anymore just staying plugged into the business and supporting you know some of these community events in droves was, it was just really cool to see and so I think that's a lesson for all of us. Around that whole clarity topic, like, just be clear on what our priorities are and people will, they shouldn't surprise you.

People will do what people do. And that is just take pride in the work that they do.

Yeah. Cool. Well, so I want to. Let's come back to the broader topic, which is the future of work.

And I think what we're really talking about is the future of like the employment agreement. Right. And what, what are, what should employees expect out of their organizations? What should organizations expect out of employees?

And the thing that I keep thinking about as, as you're talking here is things in Washington change, right. Every two to four years, depending on, you know, what kind of change there is. But one thing that doesn't change is what we know about.

I'll just pick on employee engagement. Right. And where. And how employee engagement drives so many other results for an organization. Right. How employee engagement impacts sick time. Right.

Impacts performance. I could go on and on. There was something I was just reading yesterday even about how one of our lessons learned.

So here I go, going back to Covid again.

But one of our lessons learned coming out of COVID and that I think is getting some additional conversations starting around community and the lack of community that is happening for people in their communities. Right. And then where, you know, where does an employer step into that space? And it was, I was just kind of thinking about that as you were talking.

And I was thinking about employee engagement and how that affects things and how time, you know, helping people make connections at work. Anyway, I don't know if this is bringing anything up for you, but I.

Just was kind of, you know, when I hear you talk about it, like there's one kind of anecdote individual that I think is doing incredible community work. And his name is Houston White. And, you know, he's a serial entrepreneur. He's a barber in the Camden neighborhood.

And I had a chance to meet him a couple years ago and he was talking about his vision for the, for Camden North Minneapolis neighborhood.

And he was talking about making Camden a place of community again, a place where people are welcomed and, you know, can congregate and have, have meetups. And his, he has a coffee shop there called the Get Down Coffee Company.

Yeah.

And it's a phenomenal. I mean, I happen to be a big hip hop fan and it's very hip hop themed, so you'll find me there every once in a while.

But in the summer, in the, in the spring and summer on Saturdays, he has a, a local chef come out and they do breakfast burritos and right there on the street. And you're waiting two hours for these bad boys and that they're, they're worth it, you know, and. And so come back to the community piece in.

What you're starting to see now is exactly what his vision was, was that, you know, a. An area that has, I think has. Has had a bad stigma a little bit, is now a place where you. Can. You go grab a cup of coffee, chill out, grab.

Grab something to eat. He'll do book drives out there, all of which he's. He is kind of built and coordinated through this kind of vision of his.

And I don't know, I don't know the role of every organization to find ways to facilitate that kind of environment, to make our communities a gathering place again, to make them safe, to make them a place of fun and celebration of culture. I don't have an answer to that. But I know that one gentleman has taken it upon himself to change his kind of slice of the city.

And I think it's a lesson for all of us to figure out ways to either support people that are doing that work and partner with them, create and generate, you know, you know, opportunities and, you know, for them, or do it ourselves.

Right.

You know, rather than donating, you know, don't just. Yeah, beyond. It's beyond writing a check, you know, it's. How do you, how do you show up?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it kind of gives me this sense of there's community. Community can be created in a lot of places. Right.

It can be created literally in the community, community that you live in, as well as the kind of community we are trying to create, you know, in our organizations as well. Right. And I think I've seen a bit more pull for that and I think the engine is starting to hum a bit more.

Well, I think we're going to have to have you back on to talk more about the future, future of work.

I'm going to force us into, you know, the final part of the show, which is, you know, I asked you to come prepared to talk about a few things and I'm making a, you know, kind of continuing to evolve, you know, how this goes for the show. So I, I specifically asked you for one piece of advice for leaders and one piece of advice for, I'm just going to say supporters of leaders.

So typically, you know, I'm. I think the easy one for me is to say HR folks, right? Talent management, leadership development, heads of hr.

But I want to include leaders of leaders in that as well. Right. Because it's not just HR who's supporting leaders out there. So let's start with advice for leaders.

I think my advice for leaders is to seek. Look for ways to create a stage for every single one of your employees, everyone on your team.

There aren't very many people that enjoy promoting themselves, you know, despite it being like it or not, it is a valuable skill when looking to building a career. Promote the work that you do, you know, and make your wins visible.

But I also think that managers can play a pivotal role in that, in creating the space, the proverbial stage. Right. For every individual to have a time when they can shine and have their.

Have their work speak for them, for itself, without them having to feel like they have to self promote.

Yeah.

I think as leaders that, that is something I've tried, I've tried to do consistently, regularly. Sometimes people don't necessarily want it. It feels uncomfortable.

Sure. Yeah.

But it's the best way to be undeniable as someone that performs is to put it front and center.

Yeah. I had a leader who.

I'm going to tag onto that, who he always said it was his mission to be a net exporter of talent, that his goal was always to make his people look good. And nothing made him feel better than.

Even though he would have a gap to fill, you know, nothing would make him feel better than them being able to move on to something.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So advice for those who support other leaders.

Yeah, I would just remember that leaders are employee employees too. Right. And yeah. And essentially, you know, I don't care what your title is. You know, the. For the.

By and large, we all have aspirations that need support and, and that we need kind of, I'll say, advocacy around. We all need to know that we have people in our corner, we all have insecurities. Right. And that we can.

That I think, you know, if I'm speaking to my fellow HR people out there, make sure we're taking the time to get to know the leaders that we support and work with, get to know what their aspirations are, what their, what their superpowers are. You know, that's kind of catchphrase right now. You know, what, what did those leaders do as well or better than anyone?

Because you can always use those strengths as ways to validate future performance, validate confidence in future performance, and then get them to be vulnerable with you, develop a trusting relationship so that they can share the things that they're not comfortable doing, because those are the opportunities that you will have to make those other people more successful.

Yeah. Awesome. I've had Kevin, Kevin Wilde on and talking about coachability. Local guy.

And I would say that's, you know, a theme there too that's coming up is right. It gets, it gets lonelier and lonelier. Right. The higher you go. Right.

So I think it's a good call out for, you know, remember that your leaders are employees too. And I'll tag on to that from earlier in the episode. And hr, you are leaders too. Right. You are also right. All right, well, what else?

Gosh, you know, I had a. I had an interesting call. So I've. I have this book called the Rules of the Red Rubber Ball. I wish I had one to show it to you. It's a.

It's a tiny little miniature book. It's a very quick read, kind of remedial for lack of better term.

Sure.

But it is brilliant in its simplicity and it's written by gentlemen Kevin Carroll.

Okay, can you say the name of the book one more time?

The Rules of the Red Rubber Ball.

Okay. Okay, cool. I'll make sure to link to it in the show notes.

And to remember to kind of allow yourself to, to bring back those elements of play in your work.

Nice.

Right. And it's just, it's just a, it's a well, really kind of well written kind of biography of his upbringing and the lessons that he's learned from it.

Cool.

I have to check that out.

And then the other one I suggest is the go giver.

Okay.

And this was. I wrote the author. John David Mann is the. Is the author and the basis of it are these kind of essential rules for stratospheric success.

And the premise of it is about real success comes from being extremely liberal with your.

The things that bring value your skills, yourself that the more successful you will become is a product of how willing you are to take care of others interests first. There's a rule of authenticity which, which says, you know, the most valuable gift that you can offer someone is yourself.

And you know, I've, as I alluded to earlier, you, I've been doing a lot of networking while I'm kind of in search for this, my next role and it has brought some real reciprocity to these interactions.

Yeah.

You know, that has made networking so enjoyable for me to be able to, you know, know and recognize that I have some real valuable traits and skills that whoever I'm talking to, it doesn't really matter. I want them to know that, that I'm. I'm willing to give of myself in any way that, that they need.

I don't care if it's, you know, proofreading a deck that they, that they, that they, you know, aren't quite comfortable for the main stage in their organization yet or talking through an area of conflict they may have. And they want a safe space to do that.

Talking about some of those regular and traditional HR initiatives that we drive and new ways to think about them. It doesn't really matter. And it's just. And I was inspired to do so from this book. Also a short read. You can find it on Spotify as well.

Cool. Well, I appreciate you giving to all of us by being here today. So that brings us to the end. So I will have to have you back on. I'd love this.

I would love to. Thanks a lot.

Yeah, thank you. And you know, big thanks to all the listeners. And just one last thank you, Kendall, for being here today. Greatly appreciate it.

Sure thing.

That brings us to the end of our episode. Thanks for listening. I'd encourage you to head on over to my website, Kent Coach, and start a conversation with me there.

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