Show Notes for The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast Episode 121: Politics, Parliament and Psychology with Brad Powell

Thank you for listening to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast.

In this episode of the Aspiring Psychologist podcast, we speak with Trainee Clinical Psychologist, Bradley Powell, who is in his 3rd year of the doctorate and in a fascinating placement, which is certainly different to what you might normally think of, when you hear the world “placement”. Join Brad and I as we delve into the world of Parliament and UK politics, psychology and policy-making. We also discuss the importance of protecting the psychologist title in the UK and the impact of having an unprotected title on the wider public. If you would like to hear how Brad even got into this placement, how he appeared on the front page, and hear about a day in the life of a trainee in parliament, listen on!

We hope you find it so useful.

I’d love any feedback you might have, and I’d love to know what your offers are and to be connected with you on socials so I can help you to celebrate your wins!

The Highlights:

• (00:00): Introduction
• (01:42): Bradley’s journey to Psychology
• (03:12): Imposter syndrome – everyone has them
• (05:12): The importance of having life on the other side of the doctorate
• (07:45): The power of psychology in policy making
• (11:35): What work does a trainee psychologist do in politics?
• (14:09): Protecting the psychologist title – why is it critical?
• (17:08): The resistance in not protecting titles
• (20:11): Learning from countries in policy-making and the role of learning in placements
• (24:03): A day in the life of trainee clinical psychologist on placement
• (27:58): The purpose of placements
• (29:18): Prime Minister’s questions
• (30:45): Making the front page
• (33:56): That fascinating feeling of taking it all in
• (36:17): The extensive checks that (sometimes) happen pre-placement
• (37:42): The lasting impression of Parliament
• (39:41): How final year placements dictate your qualifying path as a psychologist
• (42:09): Summary and close

Links:

📲 Connect with Brad here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradleympowell/

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💡 To check out or join the aspiring psychologist membership for just £30 per month head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/membership-interested

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📱Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her, including the Aspiring Psychologist Book, Clinical Psychologist book and The Aspiring Psychologist Membership on her Link tree: https://linktr.ee/drmariannetrent

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Coming up in today's episode, psychology Meets Politics. Join us as we chat with a trainee clinical psychologist on a really exciting placement in the world of Westminster uk. Politics. Get ready as we explore the fascinating mashup of policymaking, mental health, and a good bit of political drama. Our guest for today gives us the lowdown on the corridors of power and how carving out a placement in such a niche area has become a possibility. I hope you find this intriguing episode about the intersection of psychology and politics. So useful.

Welcome along to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast. I am Dr. Marianne Trent, and I'm a qualified clinical psychologist. If you're new to the podcast or to the channel for that matter, please do take a moment to rate and review, like and subscribe. We create incredibly interesting, useful, engaging content that helps you be aware of developing trends in psychology and in mental health and maybe illuminates and explores areas you've not considered before. I'm really excited to bring you today's episode, which is with a trainee clinical psychologist in the third and final year of their placement. It's not your average placement, but it is really, really interesting. I hope you will find it to be so, and I'll look forward to catching up with you on the other side. Just want to welcome along our guest for today, Bradley Powell. Hi Bradley.

Hi Marianne, and thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here.

Oh, it's really nice to have you here. I've been so excited. Looking forward to meeting you. I first heard about the role that you're doing via reading the Psychologist magazine. I think I saw an article written by your predecessor in your placement, but we'll come on to think more about your extra special, very exciting, very interesting placement in a moment. Firstly, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and what stage of your psychology journey you are at?

So I'm currently in my final year of the doctorate at Royal Holloway, and it's quite funny when you ask someone, can you tell me a little bit about yourself? There was one interview I had previously where I just smashed off my career experience and then I thought it was quite a good answer and I got to the end and they said, oh, but what do you like to do in your free time? But I think really for me, I'm in the final year and currently working in parliament. In my first year I was in IAPs or NHS talking therapies and that was a really good experience for me. As prior to doctorate, I didn't have that much clinical experience as in delivering therapy. My experience was more as support work as a research assistant and then working in a kind of lack a strategic network.

So when I started the doctorate and going into IAPT kind of gave me a really good grounding in how to give therapy. But when I did start, I do remember looking around thinking, well, I've got nothing compared to everyone around here. Everyone else has been a PWP before. Some people have done a PhD or done amazing work as an assistant psychologist. Whereas my AP role, I didn't really do clinical work. It was more project related stuff, but I think starting anything new, those feelings of kind of imposter syndrome, I think everyone has them. I actually had it less starting the doctorate compared to when I started in parliament and being one of the only psychologists in there. I kind of thought, what have I got to add here? Everyone else has done politics at uni, they've been here for years and I felt like a rabbit in the headlights. Basically, I'm currently doing my thesis as well, so that's due in May. It's going quite well. I think systematic review is basically ready for publication and then powering on with the empirical paper as well. So generally things are going quite well. Of course, I'm looking forward to finishing the doctorate. I was kind of visualising that a couple of days ago and that gave me quite a positive feeling. So yeah, it's a pleasure to share a bit of my story with you today and your audience too.

Oh, thank you. So it sounds like you are almost daring to see, to kind of see where you are going. And actually by the time this academic year is out, this chapter of your life will be drawing to a close. I think certainly having been a trainee myself at some point you just have to get your head down and just keep going and just keep going. But you're lifting your head a little bit and thinking, oh, there is actually a life the other side of this.

Yeah, the thought of having a life on the other side of this. And I do try to maintain a good work-life balance as well, but in the current phase of doing the thesis, that does become a bit more consuming. But I do like to stick my head above the parapet and see what's going on on the other side. And I think it's quite helpful for me or it has been throughout the doctor actually because my fiance has been the year above me, so she's qualified. I've seen her living the qualified life and I thought, yeah, could do with a bit of that.

Two psychologists in one house. Gosh, love that. I love some existential conversations happening there. I'm sure. I also loved that when you were speaking about your systematic review, you were like, yeah, that's ready for publication. I love that. That is taking control. We are going straight to publication. Will you do that before your vivo? Is that kind of the plan?

That's definitely the plan, and I've heard that getting it published before the Viva gives you a bit more confidence when you go into it. So I think that would be quite a nice feeling. But really for me, I didn't want to spend all this time doing my thesis and then for it to just sit there if it could be published. And for me personally, I found once you've written the 12,000 word systematic review, you've done the majority of the work, you just need to cut it down and submit it, and then we can see what their publishers might want changing. But yeah, I think for me, I've always kind of planned my time in advance. So months in advance I'll be thinking, right, this is my time to do this, and I try not to go over that. I always try to stick to those deadlines and make it happen. So I had it on my radiator October, November, December, a plan for each month and sometimes the plan changes, but following that template kind of helps.

Amazing. Gosh, you're very driven, very self accountable, which is incredible. I've really enjoyed seeing your name in my diary for months. We planned this in specifically for towards the end of your placement, didn't we? So that you kind of be able to reflect on your journey. So lovely. Shall we have a think about what your placement is. If someone is listening to this and they're like, why is psychology involved in politics? How's that happened? What would your answer to that be?

I think that there's two parts to this answer. So the first part is how has this even happened? So when I first started the doctorate, I spent the previous year working for the Psychological Professions Network and I was there at a conference talking about leadership for aspiring psychologists after I did the Edward Jenner programme. And at that conference my supervisor, the only psychologist MP was there speaking at the conference. So naturally what do you do after that? You network, you introduce yourself, and I basically said it would be fantastic to come and learn a bit more about parliament with you. And I put my supervisor and my course in touch and that kind of led to the start of this placement coming about. And it was only really through I guess seeing the opportunity and being interested and taking that step forward is how it happened in some ways.

But I think there has always been a desire in psychology anyway that we should be more involved in politics and my supervisor wouldn't have been elected as a politician if her constituents didn't think Parliament needed a psychologist to. So I think it's definitely helpful for a psychologist to be in Parliament. And for me, what I've really got out of it is learning how the system works, how to maybe influence some policy. And as a trainee psychologist, I think it's really important that we do engage with politics or learn how to influence policy. So imagine you are conducting your research project, perhaps you could be researching any health condition and you've identified quite a novel finding that actually it shouldn't just be published in a journal. This should change some sort of policy while working in here teaches you how maybe you could go about influencing that policy, whether it's giving you the confidence to go and meet with a politician or different policy makers or asking parliamentary questions and building up that kind of network in the policymaking landscape to affect change. And that's really important for us as psychologists because the policies that come out of government impact our service users and they impact us. So why on earth should we not be in that room trying to make that difference? But it's something that we're not learning about at undergrad or master's or doctorate level. But I would argue that it's something we should learn about from an earlier stage in our training

Or just in our general education. I don't feel like I was ever really taught about politics. I feel like I've been a bit politics thick really growing up. I feel like knowing a bit more, even now in schools, they kind of make them watch news round before they go home. And I think that's quite useful because they're at least hearing a child appropriate understanding of what's happening in the world. And I don't think we did that and we turned news round off. It was boring, but they're just, I think they are making children more aware of the issues that are concerning them. So when we're thinking about key performance indicators and placement goals for time on placement, I'm guessing a placement in Westminster looks very different than one in an adult mental health service, for example. How do you navigate what it is you're hoping to achieve by the time you've finished a placement there?

Yeah, that's a really good question. So of course I'm not working with different presenting issues or different clinical models models. Some of the things that I have been trying to do are more project related. So for example, working on a campaign to protect the psychologist title and thinking about how we could maybe implement that change. So perhaps we can have a conversation after this about how that could pan out. So planning that campaign and not just that campaign, but actually helping lots of different other stakeholders who want to change a policy, whether it's related to health or social care. So for example, yesterday I was meeting with a veterinary group who actually have a similar problem to psychology in that they need to change the legislation, they need to have an increase in the workforce and they're trying to influence parliament. So meeting with different lobbying groups and just learning how to influence the system is something that's quite important for my development here.

I'd say there's also research projects that we want to get involved in. So at the moment we are looking at best practise in disability policy across European parliaments to see whether there's any best practise initiatives that perhaps we could adopt in the UK parliament. So trying to increase the number of people with disabilities working in parliament to make it more accessible. So that's another project. I mean it really is quite broad and varied. And another thing at the moment is developing some performance workshops for political candidates, parliamentary staff, and perhaps counsellors. And it was quite interesting when I was having the meeting with the university about how as a psychologist for me now anyway, you take it for granted about CBT or psychological principles and then when you start talking to other people about them, about how, for example, our thoughts can influence how we feel and then our results, people stop and think, oh yeah, I've never thought about that. Of course that's an issue. So delivering some sort of performance workshops and disseminating psychological information, there is another thing that I'm working on. And of course I'll probably try and write a article for the BPS at some point too.

Please do. I look forward to reading that. So for those who are watching on YouTube, you will have seen my face light up when Bradley told us that he was working on trying to protect the title of psychologists. So that is something I'm passionate about. For anyone that's listening to this that's like, what do you mean protect the title of psychologist? It's actually currently in the UK totally legal for anybody with zero potentially psychology knowledge or qualifications to call themselves a psychologist. And there's nothing that can be done about that. And I've been ranting on about it for quite some time. But I've taken a very interested effort on social media even within the last seven of really trying to stir up some support for this campaign. Of course, it's largely professionally qualified psychologists who are getting behind this. I do believe later today I even have a chat booked in with a Radio four producer about this very issue.

It needs to happen, it really needs to happen. And my reasoning for why this needs to happen is because people are out there, especially on social media, somebody described mental health as being the next gold rush because there's such a demand for it. And when there's a gold rush, people go out there with their pans, don't they, panning for gold. And it feels like that's what's happening with the term psychologist. So you get people on TikTok, on Instagram, wherever, punting themselves out there as a psychologist, but when you dig, they may have a psychology degree, which as we know is theory-based only and doesn't necessarily involve any clinical contact or supervision and certainly no regulation. And they're calling themselves a psychologist and ethically they feel that's appropriate. But of course what we know is that the general public think that if someone is calling themselves a psychologist, that they mean professionally qualified. And that's where the grey area is for me.

Absolutely. And one of the hard things about this problem is that the people who do call themselves psychologists are well-meaning okay, maybe there is the gold rush problem, but they're, they're trying to help other people. But actually if you're not trained in the evidence-based approach and you haven't been assessed and delivering that to an effective level, then actually you could be doing more harm as well. And I think it's fantastic that you're speaking to Radio four because as psychologists we can want that change to happen, but really the cause to make that change will be so much more powerful if it's the public behind the campaign. And it's really difficult as a member of the public to find a qualified professional who's going to provide the best treatment for your care when everyone's marketing themselves as I can treat this, but actually, are they going to be treating your problems with the nice recommended treatments?

Probably not. So I think it's really important that we do that work and when we speak with other countries, they're completely shocked that we don't have the psychologist title protected. So I think it's really a matter of time before we make it happen and we need to do it sensitively as well because academic psychologists, people who work in universities naturally, they may not want the title to be protected because they've worked very hard doing their psychology degree PhD and their research and potentially protecting the title could impact on their ability to call themselves a psychologist. But I don't think we should let that stop us from trying to protect the public from this issue. And I'm sure there's ways round of actually making sure that every psychologist can be called a psychologist in a way that's safe and ethical for the public.

Yeah, absolutely. I could not agree more. And I love the idea of getting the public behind what you do so that I think it's probably, it's like the drama about the post office campaign that happened recently for the Horizon scandal. This became a public movement. The public were demanding that something be done. I think the problem is there hasn't been big enough case studies to demonstrate why this is problematic currently. I think the more and more the unregulated, unqualified psychologists go on, there will be harm to people as a result of what is being propagated. And I would love to think that everybody has got the best will behind what they're doing. But some of the stuff I've been watching recently are so wildly unethical and non-evidence based that the passive income products spring up off the back of that and it feels like it's mainly driven in trying to line their pockets rather than genuinely ease the distress of the general population.

So I think it's, it's very tricky and of course we get lots and lots of resistance for this movement from experts by experience who are of course putting content out there as well. But I still think generally speaking, a sensitively positioned, professionally qualified, regulated insured mental health professional is a best place to start with anything that you're trying to do to change the way you feel about your mental health. Anyway, this is a slightly protracted, I'm just very passionate about this and of course it really is political. I know that Australia and New Zealand, their title is protected and I think that's possibly more recent. Do we ever piggyback off other country's guidance and policies? Does that happen Bradley?

I think it's funny, actually. I was at an event last night, it was actually about finances and how Australia developed a really innovative system for reducing the complexities with certain financial exchanges. And off the back of that, we're trying to implement that in the UK because it will save time and money. So I think that there's definitely a case of learning from other institutions and places and seeing how we can do what we do better. But it's quite funny as well because working in parliament, when I first started I kind of felt like I was learning a completely new role. So I came in and I didn't have my kind of CBT crutch or my prior foundations that when you go into a different service, you know how the NHS works, you kind of know what you'll be doing. So I was really trying to immerse myself in this political parliamentary environment, taking in all of this knowledge.

And about two months in, I received a message from my family friend who is trying to find a psychologist and they showed me the link to the person that they had been seeing before who said they could no longer help them. And this person unfortunately wasn't really providing the evidence-based approach for the difficulty that they were having. So I kind of provided a text message summary of what I thought would help. And after I sent it, it was probably a bit of an essay on that text. It kind of reminded me of how lucky I am to actually be trained as a psychologist and to be able to share that information. And it kind of re-grounded me in Parliament as well because I'm coming in here not as someone with a politics background, I'm coming in here with the clinical research background and I think that adds something so much more as well.

It really does. And I think it probably helps quieten down the imposter syndrome a little bit because you are not being expected to go in there as a fully fledged established politician. You might well have had to go suit shopping before this placement. This might not have been something that was already in your wardrobe for this placement, but you are seen as the mental health expert and that's why you are there and you're allowed to be the expert in that area and learn and grow in others.

Definitely. It's funny how you say that. So my first day going for the placement visit, I get on my smartest work outfit that I would've used previously, very rarely wear a blazer for a placement day, maybe I've done that once for a staff party. So anyway, I put on my Chinos, my nice shirt, my blazer, and I get there and I see Big Ben and it's a fantastic environment to be in. But then I realised looking round everyone else is in suits, I think I'm under dressed. So I think there's something to be said of dressing up wearing the suit, it does make you feel like you fit in a bit more as well. So yeah, I did go suit shopping after that. But yeah, it was a funny way to start the placement.

I always prefer to be overdressed for any occasion. I never like to feel like you're the one, oh, I've got this horribly wrong. I'm in my joggers. Oh no, no, this is terrible. All right, so I've got so many questions I want to ask you before I ask you my slightly more flippery silly questions. Could you give us another example of something that you do on day to day on placement days? Are they all in person placement days in your placement?

Yes, they're all in person. So it could be quite varied, but let's say as an example meeting. So for example, there could be an issue in society that people are trying to change and one way of going about trying to affect that change is to ask parliamentary questions, to write early day motions. And these are things that kind of raise awareness about an issue in parliament. So I could meet with a stakeholder, understand the problem, and then draught this question to be submitted to be answered by a politician. And likewise with early day motions as well, there was another time where I've had to write a speech on a topic that would be delivered and not being an expert in the area it was delivered in, you're working with the stakeholders as well to get their views on what they think should be incorporated in the speech.

And that was quite a nice use of my writing skills really. There's also lots of events going on in Parliament, so every day there's all sorts of different events, but one of the ones that I went to recently, which I really enjoyed was a awareness raising event. And as I went in there I was speaking with clinicians and people who have been affected by this condition as well. And it really reminded me of, as a psychologist, you really can understand the problems that a person has been through possibly a bit more than other people without that clinical background or you're able to validate the kind of difficulties that they have had and build those relationships up quite easily, not easily, but yet it's helpful having that kind of psychological background there.

If you are as a constituent, you could also write to your MP as well and get in touch with them. So sometimes a constituent might write with certain problems, maybe they're having an issue with accessing NHS appointments and then you can kind of liaise with them and with the relevant service to try and make that change happen. And that's more of the psychological type of work that we can do here. And outside of that as well, sometimes my friends and associates might want to come and see parliament, so I've given them tours before and it was quite funny actually on Monday we sat in the House of Lords and the Lords is quite an impressive room to sit in and my friend peers over the balcony because you're kind of out of the way and he goes, well that's Lord Cameron there Brad. And I go, I don't believe you.

And he goes, no, no, honestly, look. And it was the first day David Cameron had been made a Lord and was delivering his speech. So it's really varied the work that we're doing there and it's quite fascinating walking around the estate, the kind of sense of history and awe is really powerful. I've become a bit habituated to it now, so that's why it's nice to do a tour and be reminded of how lucky I'm to be there. And as I've been walking around, I have had a few smiles from people and I thought, oh well they're smiling at me. So yeah, you see lots of people with impressive careers as well. So it's a really great place to be working. I do feel lucky.

Sounds amazing. And it sounds like you're actually watching history unfold. It sounds like a really incredible privilege. Was it a very popular placement? Did you have to fight people off for it or because you kind of found your supervisor? Were you first in line?

I'm not too sure. I think one of the requirements is as a training psychologist, you must hit, and I know you know this, but you must hit all of your competencies by the end of training. And as I started my first year and I met the supervisor and that's when the placement started being formed, I knew exactly what I wanted to be doing in my final year. So that didn't necessarily guarantee that I would be able to do this placement, but I did have that prior connection and the motivation to go out and try and hit all of my competencies before my final year. And I was quite lucky. I think really being in a placement where I was able to work with some older adults in my adult service, I was able to work with some of the other competencies in my forensic placements. So I think I was really lucky with the placements I was in. It aligned well, but also looking for those opportunities and trying to make it happen to make sure that I did hit all of my competencies as well.

Amazing. So you had your eye on the prize you wanted to get, and so made sure that you'd met your milestones before you got there. One of my questions was going to be have you been in the House of Lords? Have you been in the House of Commons? But I think you're like Yeah, loads of times.

Yeah, I have been a few times recently. One of the hard debates to go out and see is Prime Minister's questions, which is every Wednesday 12. And I've never really watched it before, to be honest. Maybe a highlight on the news. But since I've started working here, it's a great one to watch. And in all of our offices we've got TVs, so you can see debates unfolding, you don't need to leave your office, but Prime Minister's questions is naturally the busiest one and you actually need to get to book tickets. But I was able to make it recently, there was one spare seat left on that day and it was quite an eventful debate, but there's so much history in the Commons as well. So for example, if I am walking around and giving a tour before you walk into the Commons, there's a part which was actually hit by bomb in World War ii and rather than completely recreating the archway of this door, they've remade it out of the rubble to represent resilience. So there is history and you do get to see lots of the estate. Yeah,

Sounds just so fascinating. I'm reading a book that's actually set in World War II at the moment. It's historical fiction, but I think it's just so, so interesting, so interesting. Have you met the Prime Minister?

I haven't met the Prime Minister Mo, but if there's an opportunity to do so then that would be fantastic. Just talk rolling back to the House of Lords as well. When you walk behind the Lords, actually there's a part in my little script for a tour where you get in there and you say, now, just to let you know, all those years ago, you're now stood on the spot where Guy Forks laid the gunpowder and every year before the parliamentary session commences, the basement is checked to make sure there's no gunpowder in there as well.

So that was just another point about the Lords and it's very glamorous inside. It's more glamorous than the Communist Chamber actually. And whilst I haven't met the Prime Minister, there was one day when there was lots of paparazzi outside of Parliament and I thought this is a bit odd. I just rushed into the office and did some work and it got to lunchtime and I thought, oh, better get outside, get some sunshine. Initially when I first started, I wasn't leaving the estate, I was kind of just doing my work, but actually going for a lunchtime walk is something that's quite important to me. So I broke the mould and I started building that into my routine. And as I left the office, I came in through another entrance where there was so many paparazzi here, and as I'm walking to the building, someone turns around and goes, whoa. So they mistook me for someone else, but I still made it to the front page of the paper. No, I'm joking. I didn't really, but that was quite a funny moment. It's not every day you walk past. Yeah, it's not every day that happens.

No, it certainly isn't. And as you were I thinking, oh, wonder what the house Lord smells like, house of common smells like does it smell like leather or is it just smell like lots of sweat and people that need a shower? How does it smell?

No. Well, of course there's the history within the whole parliamentary estate. There isn't really a distinctive smell, but there are really good services within the parliamentary estate. Lots of restaurants, lots of cafes. There's even a place you can get your haircut. So I actually had a parliamentary haircut recently. I didn't ask for the politicians cut. I kind of went for my usual style. So yeah, it doesn't have a smell

Hairdressers there.

No, I didn't. Not quite. But yeah, I smell necessarily. But there is a sense of, there's lots of meetings going on and there's a sense of there's lots of stuff happening. If anything, it's a surprise. There isn't smell of sweat and things like that.

Yes, it sounds like really buzz. It sounds alive, it sounds vibrant and it feels a little bit like when you go to an arena venue and there's all those shops and cafes and stuff just outside that you can kind of, so you don't ever need to leave. It feels like they've created a town in Westminster itself.

Definitely. And one of the funny things is I didn't actually realise that from one of the buildings, there's a tunnel under the road which enables you to get into the more into the kind of parliamentary estate where the Westminster Hall and the Commons and the Lords is. And on that first day when you go under the road and you see the gargoyles and you see the arches, I kind of had to pinch myself in some ways. It was such an amazing experience and when you do step outside of the estate and you see the London eye and the river, it's just such a nice place to be working right in central London. So I try to make more of a mindful intention of just taking in the surroundings inside the estate and outside just to really ground myself in that as well. So if you like mindfulness, I think it's a brilliant place to practise because you could literally spot something new every time you are walking around.

It really does stand amazing and it is making me think of the first time I ever got my first badge that said assistant psychologist. And I was working for St. Andrew's Healthcare at the time and they used to give out these really beautiful gold metal badges. So you put on your shiny gold metal badge it an assistant psychologist, and I just couldn't believe that my swipe card would get me into this incredible building. It is in a really, really historic building and I'm feeling that the same is true of having a swipe past that gets you legally into this really amazing building full of history, full of it either past now or unfolding right now. It sounds like just lots and lots of pinch me moments.

It's funny actually when I received my pass and I could walk around on my own because if you don't have a pass, you've just got a visitor's pass, you need to be accompanied. And I finally got my pass and I thought, oh, I can walk around on my own. I'm not sure where I want to go if I'm going to get stopped. There's men with guns everywhere, men and women with guns. And I thought, no, I just need to go out this way. Even if I walk the wrong way, I'm sure it'll be fine. And I'm still here to tell the story, so that's fine.

That's really cool. When I started working in a youth prison, I actually wasn't allowed to work there to begin with because I had to have Ministry of Defence clearance where they went through every single reference, including my primary school to check that I was who I said I was and that there wasn't any unaccounted for time. I think I had to get a letter written to say that I actually was travelling the world when I was backpacking for six months. I literally couldn't be a single gap that Did they do something similar for parliament? They little bit happier for you to float under the radar?

No, it's quite an extensive check as well. I remember. I shouldn't have been surprised actually, but it was a bit when I had to fill in this kind of security form, I had to message my parents and find out where they were born and a few extra details. And I thought this is, it's understandable really. It sounds like you would be able to get in here as well, Marianne, if you have a fancier change of career, you've already got quite an extensive security clearance by the sounds of it. So yeah, one step closer,

I bear that in mind, but when I'm Prime Minister, what will be your lasting impression from this placement with you, do you think, as you consider it now? Obviously it may change in future.

That's a really nice question to be asked because for me, I always like to think about how would I like to think with the end in mind, what would I like the final outcome to be? And I think in terms of my lasting impression of Parliament, I think it'll be one of feeling very fortunate to have had the time working in there, to be honest, just from knowing how it works. And I can imagine in the future visiting London, if I move out of London, hopefully with a family walking around and thinking, oh yeah, worked in there. Let's try and get a tour and it'll be quite an exciting place to visit as well. And one that was quite perhaps formative for me in terms of shaping the way that I want to work as a psychologist as well, because it's given me quite a lot of exposure to different areas, not just psychology and health, but a understanding different professions. And I think there's so much out there, which as a psychologist, I knew from 16 what I wanted to do and that was kind of my tunnel vision on that goal, but actually it's kind of taught me there's so much out there, so I feel very fortunate to have had the experience.

That's a very humbling end. That's really, really lovely. Yeah, it's just been an absolute pleasure to speak with you and I think people will take many things from what we've spoken about, but I think if you are in a professional qualification where there are optional placements where you can choose what you want to do, you don't necessarily have to pick something out of a book. If you know where you want to go, you can create that for yourself. And I think when I was in training, some people even had out of catchment placements, all they had to be able to do is evidence that wasn't available in their locality. And so if people are interested in creating their own placements, I think what you've really nicely demonstrated that is possible, even if there is no precedent for it,

I think it's something that you need to be careful with because of course not everyone can start approaching supervisors. I think that will become quite contain. But I think, like you said, if there's not what you want to do in your area and that you are quite confident that's what you want to go into, then I think there's a strong case for making that happen. Because I think there's a lot of research which shows where you spend your final year placement or research that dictate, not dictates, but there's a high likelihood of entering working in that place, which as I said that out loud, I've started thinking about what that means for me. Not sure if that's where I'll end up in the future too.

Yeah, I'm trying to think what my final year placements were. They were psychodynamic with adults and then systemic solution focused lifespan service, I would say. But actually my qualifying job was determined by the fact it was recession and there weren't any jobs. So I ended up in Cams for four years, but had a delightful time in doing that. Anyway, I digress. It's been so, so lovely to speak with you. Please do consider coming back and chatting to us when you're qualified so that we can see where you end up and whether you do kind of go further down the political route, be fascinating to see the next stage in your journey.

Well, yeah, so thank you so much for having me, Marianne, and I think I'm a year long placement as well. So seeing how I finished the last couple of months will be helpful. I mean, unless the election is called early, which I think there's the working assumption apparently is it'll be in the second half of this year. It should be therefore a year long placement for me as well. So it would be fantastic to come back and give an update both at the end and in the future as well. So yeah, thank you for having me, Marianne.

Oh, thank you. I'm wishing you the very best with getting your thesis finished and passing your Viva with flying colours. I too have heard that getting your systematic review published before your Viva is pretty good way to go. So yeah, wishing you luck with that. I think it's your organisational skills that are going to probably make that happen. Other methods are also available and are okay too. But yeah, thank you so much for your time, Bradley.

Yeah, it's been a pleasure.

Gosh, what an absolute privilege to speak with Bradley. I feel like I've learned so much and I'm so energised and I am totally going to try and book to go and see him and have my own lovely swanky tour of Westminster. He thanked me for what I've been doing these last few years in psychology for aspiring psychologists, and that was humbling. It's lovely. It's lovely to think that what I do is useful to you as my listeners and my viewers, and I would love your thoughts. I would love your feedback. The idea that I'm helping you in any way is just the biggest privilege, the biggest pleasure. And because I know I would've found this sort of content really useful when I was an aspiring psychologist. Heck, I find it useful and interesting now. So yeah, thank you for allowing me to keep doing what I do.

Keep gracing your ears and if you're watching on YouTube, your eyes with this content, please do consider also the Aspiring Psychologist Collective book, the Clinical Psychologist Collective book. And of course, if it matters to you that people are able to access qualified and regulated therapists mental health professionals, please do also bear in mind the brand new book called Talking Heads, which is people's guide to help them find qualified and regulated therapists in the uk. If you have got any ideas for future podcast episodes, please don't be shy, come and connect with me on my socials. I am Dr. Marianne Trent everywhere. If you'd like to get involved with the debates about psychologist title being a protected title, please do come and find me on Instagram specifically and LinkedIn, which I am Dr. Marianne Trent in both of those places. Of course, too. Love to hear your voice on this.

Let's see what we can do as Bradley suggested to get the public behind this cause because that might just be the difference that makes the difference. One of the reasons I do what I do is that I passionately believe in psychology as a professionally qualified profession. I don't want you guys to get to be qualified or to get further along your journey and to feel like it doesn't matter or that others are getting more kudos for what doing when they are not at all qualified or experienced. So I care about what you do. I care about you being able to ease the distress of people you work with as well, and about you having a long, happy, healthy career in psychology. That's the dream, right? But I will look forward to catching up with you for our next episode of the podcast, which as an MP three is available from 6:00 AM on Mondays and as a YouTube episode, you get a little sneaky extra. It's usually available on Saturdays. So I'm also Dr. Marianne Trent on YouTube. Please do subscribe. Please do like please do tell your friends. Take care.

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