In Part 2 of “Are You Playing Too Safe With The Gospel” George Binoka and Jeff Musgrave talk about the everyday situations where Christians can step into meaningful gospel conversations—new neighbors, coworkers, family gatherings, hospital visits, weddings, funerals, crises, waiting rooms, and even sporting events.

But what does success in evangelism actually look like? George and Jeff explore why biblical faithfulness—not conversion statistics—is the measure of success. They discuss the fear that keeps Christians from taking gospel risks, the importance of relational evangelism, and how God invites us to participate in the rescue work He is already doing.

Jeff also shares a powerful story of an atheist who came to faith after simply being given a chance to encounter the gospel.

The challenge is simple: God doesn't expect us to win the world. He does expect us to faithfully do something for someone.

Listen, look for the opportunities God puts in your path, and give the gospel a chance.

We're continuing part two of risky gospel opportunities and why playing

it safe isn't always faithful.

~ we talked about this last time.

The greatest risk in evangelism isn't rejection,

it's burying the opportunities God has entrusted to us.

And we looked at the passage of the talents in Matthew twenty five,

fourteen to thirty. ~ you know,

we

We worked through a number of things,

~ understanding the parable, defining what is gospel risk,

~ what are we really afraid of?

Persecution, ostracizing ~ being ostracized from society

or rejection. ~ and and then we ended last week talking about risk management versus

risk avoidance. You know, businesses talk about managing risk.

not eliminating it and that's true in the kingdom of Christ as well.

We can't eliminate the risk. As a matter of fact,

there's a a a writer that wrote a book about ministry called Dangerous Calling.

And I just yeah I think it's this Jeff,

you could comment on this. Ministry is quite the dangerous place

for any Christian to be.

I think it's dangerous on multiple levels,

but i if nothing else, just the spiritual battle.

We have an enemy who hates what we do and he wants to stop us because

he wants to stop ~ the work God wants to do through us and and so as we step

out for God, we put a target on our back.

Yep. Yeah, we do. And what's amazing is Jesus has said to us,

Love your enemies. ~ I don't know how to do that yet,

but he says, Love your enemies is what he's commanded me to do.

And y relational evangelism is the only strategy that I know of

to get the gospel to people who are resistant towards it,

who are against us and our message.

And it also is a great way of managing the risk.

Like we've said, it's a great platform to have repeated gospel opportunities

to manage risk because people will know you care.

They will know you're invested in them and that you love them.

They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

And so ~ that being said, we're picking up where we left off.

And what we're gonna look at today is what are the opportunities we commonly miss.

And

~ what gospel opportunities do Christians most frequently bury?

But before that, let's introduce the podcast.

Welcome to Gospel Talks Podcast,

where we help Christians all over the world become more effective

in relational evangelism and discipleship.

My name is George Binocca, and with me today is Jeff Musgrave.

And it's great to be with him,

author, founder of the Exchange.

Jeff, you just finished writing a brand new book.

~ you want to tell us a little bit about that?

So Conversations with Jesus Volume One has been out for a while.

~ it's the first half of the book of John.

And just finished editing and ~ sending off to the publisher

~ volume two and super, super excited about it.

I feel like I've been living with John for just I mean,

literally the person, ~ for the last ~ couple of years,

but specifically the last couple of weeks.

my wife Anna and I have read through the book two different times and ~ just kind of

~ zeroing in on everything, learning,

~ seeing ~ the life of Jesus in that last night,

watching him restore Peter. ~ there's actually a section of a chapter

on ~ what what Peter's restoration looks like in the book of Acts.

It's yeah

Yeah.

super exciting. We're I'm really thrilled.

Hmm, I love it. I can't wait for it to come out ~ and we will tell

you guys all about it. You won't miss out on that.

Well, let's just start with this question that I left off on in the introduction.

What gospel opportunities ~ do you feel that most Christians frequently bury?

Yeah, I ~ you know, this list that I have in front of me that I'm gonna talk about,

you wrote. So maybe maybe the two of us should work on this together.

this new neighbors, I am confident you put that on there because when

you ~ first moved into town,

~ you left all your connections ~ where you were and were kind

of with nobody and I

I actually told you, I said, George,

you're in a brand new neighborhood.

There's gotta be people right there.

And it took a while for people to move in where you were,

didn't it?

It did, it did. That ha house right across the street from me wasn't even done yet.

The people that moved into that house are Dylan and Emily.

They have two kids, ~ and little ones.

And they've been actually coming over on Fridays,

been doing a Bible study together.

~ and so it's amazing.

The new neighbor thing is a real thing.

When you see a U Haul, you should grab your back brace and your Ben

Gay and you should go over and help unload.

Yeah.

Yeah. And and ~ bring meals. I mean,

people need ~ so much in those moments.

And

Yeah.

just make yourself a good neighbor.

I mean, that's i we're not trying to buy anything,

we're just trying to be a good neighbor and become friends

Yeah.

because that's what friends do.

Yep, that that's exactly right.

there are other people on this list.

~ coworkers are a big one. Jeff,

I I have not worked very long in a secular I've had little short stints

in a secular workplace. I don't know if you've had a a stint in a secular workplace,

but ~ there I mean, it is hard to be a Christian in a secular workplace

and at the same time there's such great gospel opportunity because

you spend probably more time with these pe as much time with these people

as you do your family.

Yeah. I and I think ~ again, the way to reach co-workers is

I think first and foremost be be a good worker.

~ but

Mm.

but secondly, ~ just be a good making friends with people,

letting them know w I I want to know you personally as a person.

I care about you personally. And ~ that relational connection ~ just takes

you past ~ accomplishing work together.

to accomplishing life together.

Yes. Yes. ~ I I agree with you a hundred percent.

The next one is also a great one.

I love family gatherings. ~ and can maybe I could expand it,

Jeff. Helping your family, let's say they buy a new house and they need somebody

to come and demolish floors with them and paint and do stuff like that.

I don't know how you handle witnessing to family members and things like that.

Well, I think it when I do seminars,

the biggest question that shows up every single seminar just we just

got back from ~ where was I?

~ Norfolk, Virginia. And ~ the church that we were in there had three

or four people that their family had I mean they one woman said when

I first got saved, I really pushed people too hard.

And now they don't want to talk to me.

What do I do? And so

Mm.

we talked about that very thing.

~ making yourself a loved ~ relative by just simply showing up,

being the the person who's always going to care for everybody else.

frankly, the only way to get people like that to want to talk

to you is to talk about the things they want to talk about,

and ~

Mm

if you're

You're earning back the the relationship.

The relationship has

Mm.

been damaged and it didn't mean to.

You I I don't I don't think people on purpose burn relationships,

but when we recognize we've got a wounded relationship,

we have to we have to earn back the we call it pocket change,

Anna and I do it's just a term we use to to relationships and and really help them

desire to be with you.

And what I found

Mm.

is that when I'm a genuine believer and I am genuinely living the life

of Christ and ~ carefully giving people the relationship that they need

and and want from a relative, eventually they're gonna want to talk about

me helping them because they watch me help other people and they I mean when when

they get emotionally, physically ~ ill,

they're gonna want us around.

Yep.

Amen. Amen. I agree with you a hundred percent.

And on this list are things that I know we could talk about.

We probably have examples ~ of each of these hospital visits,

weddings, funerals, crisis moments,

waiting rooms, sporting events,

any of those that you've

Well let's

take those all together. ~ the sporting

Yeah.

event kind of goes into a different category.

~ hospital visits, weddings, funerals,

~ crisis moments, waiting rooms,

all of those are situational. I'm I'm with you because I mean it

Mm.

it ~ and ~ when we are in those moments,

I think that we have to be ever like ~ a wedding,

I whenever I

go to weddings, I always recognize ~ that that preacher over there is nervous.

I need to go talk to him. And you know,

they're just people that need help.

And ~ I always want to jump in and help where ~ that is is needed.

And what you find is that as you're going in and serving,

funerals are the same way, crisis moments the same way.

~

Mm.

then you just find these are the people who are open and need

ministry. I had a friend who was in intensive care

for some time and eventually died.

This just recently happened. And ~ I I ~ went

to the hospital and went to every single family member.

I didn't you know it wasn't like I was checking them off,

but I just needed to know how are they doing?

What can I do to help? And in the process you find

those abilities to to minister Christ to them.

Yeah, ~ agreed. ~ those are critical times,

those are rare opportunities, but ~ those are times when people

are thinking about life and death and all that sort of thing,

and so ~ we shouldn't pass those by easily.

~ why do you think sporting event yeah

That sporting event. I mean y are you are you ready to move on?

~

I shouldn't

jump ~ in.

No, you're good. ~ sporting events,

I was hope to I was hoping to run away from it.

But any I don't know why. I mean,

I think

this is a thing, but

here's the deal. sharing an event together

is what's gonna build that relationship.

So it's possible

Mm-hmm.

that it is impossible to actually witness during a football game.

I mean, you know, we're cheering,

we're you know, and it's like it's not like you can interrupt this moment

of look at that touchdown with let me give you the next point of the gospel.

But what we can do is enjoy that event together and in the process of doing so,

connect us, which gives me an opportunity to be able to speak to him

at a different place, a different t venue ~ of about the Lord.

So these are events that we are purposely connecting with people.

So in other words, I'm not just gonna go there and enjoy the football game.

I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna purposely try to connect with the person that

I attended with.

Hmm. Why do you think that

why do you think God entrusts us with these types of opportunities or talents

if we borrow Jesus' terminology from the parable?

why does God open these doors for us?

Yeah, i I I think we have to go back to the meta-narrative of nature of of history.

And the meta-narrative of history is that Jesus came to seek and to save that which

was lost from Adam's fall to the very last ~ soul before

the trump is blown. ~ God

Mm.

is working to rescue people. He he sent me to

Mm.

serve him.

on this rescue mission. It's not my rescue mission.

I don't have to rescue people.

He's rescuing them, but he he works with me.

And so if that's the case, if he really has sent me to this rescue mission,

then the fact is that ~

he is also going to connect me with specific people

he's trying to rescue. And I I I feel like that's my job is to be looking

for those people and knowing that he's doing that.

Mm-hmm. I love that. Yeah, being aware of what God is doing around you.

that's the one situation where you could say,

Don't be scared to read into it.

Because God is probably doing something.

Yeah. Yeah.

we call those divine appointments.

And the fact is that we should be looking for them,

expecting them, and ~ and read I I love this thought,

and I'm really stealing something from later on in our in my our notes,

but God is always at work. ~ I mean he's never not at work,

but when

Mm.

he pulled back that veil just a little bit.

and allows me to see what he's doing,

I personally see that as his invitation to get to get involved in what he's doing

and to actually be a

Mm.

part of it myself.

Mm. I love that. I love that. A and

I

guess the question we could ask is ~ what's the goal?

Because let's talk about the word success for a second.

~ success, this idea of success.

We could start thinking of evangelism as ~

an opportunity for our success.

You know, were we successful in converting them?

but but I don't think that's the goal.

When you look at that parable

What do you see as the goal of this whole process?

I think that pointing back to the parable is really valuable because

in the parable you've got three different guys and with three different levels

of what we would call success.

And the two who serve their master well were both equally commended,

equally commended. And in the process,

the the the words that we hear that are so beautiful are well done,

good, and

faithful servant. So I I think those two words,

good and faithful, are the words that determine success by God.

So I live my life for him in goodness

and am faithful to take the opportunities that he puts in my path.

So that is success. Success is ~ God seeing me as faithful.

So to drill down on that a little bit,

~ you know, for my friends who are a little bit more analytical,

~ how do you define success in witnessing w because there

I mean, because isn't there a failure in witnessing,

right? I mean, I like it's the thing I think of is you can't fail when

you fa when you witness. So what does succeeding look like with those biblical

caveats of it's not what the world would define a success?

So how would we define

success in in a scenario where we're witnessing.

Yeah, I ~ I don't know whether you feel this way,

but I feel like when I take the risk,

have the conversation, and get shut down.

And I mean that it it was a failure in terms of conversion rate.

~

Right.

I go I go away from that and have this sense of victory.

I I didn't

Right.

I didn't

chicken out even though the possibility of rejection was high.

I I I s I took this the step.

I did what God wanted me to do.

And ~ I I love the abil the thought process.

I'm not trying to win the world.

That's God's job. What I'm trying

Mm, mm.

to do is follow my savior. And if I'm following the savior,

then I'm I'm actually successful.

I mean I

I feel like I have done what I was supposed to do.

Now failure in a in a witnessing opportunity,

I've certainly had those two. That's when I chicken out.

That's when I I sometimes I chicken out by talking about God and

not talking about the gospel. ~ sometimes

Mm.

I chicken out by kind of mentioning that people need to be saved,

but not helping a person recognize they need to be saved.

Do you know what I mean? I'm I

Mm, mm.

I'm I'm I'm taking the easy path and

And most of the times I go away recognizing that that was a failure.

I wasn't faithful.

You know, it's interesting because ~ I I think the only way we can fail

is to not do what God told us to do.

~

He he.

I mean, really, disobedience is failure for a Christian.

~ that's I just I just have to obey.

I I just have to live life his way.

~ the results have nothing to do with success for a Christian.

~ because the results are all God's.

He gets the glory for the results.

No one gets to go to heaven and go,

Yeah, but you're like, you know,

I won these people for you and Jesus is standing there like,

No, I died for them. You just were a witness for me,

but ~ thank you for pointing the finger,

you know. because that's what John the Baptist did.

He pointed, he pointed, he pointed.

I do think though that Jesus is going to

~ recognize our intimate service with him.

So in other words, when I get to heaven

Mm.

and and there are people there that I had the privilege of being

in the birthing room, you know,

I had the privilege

Mm.

of being part of their their trusting Christ.

I I just have ~ a confidence that Jesus is going to

purposely acknowledge we worked together to see that one saved,

didn't we, Jeff? ~

Mm.

I just I really believe that there's a companionship with Jesus

in witnessing that that is beyond anything we could experience any other way.

And you see what Jesus respects.

He respects what he loves, what he praises is our faithfulness.

you know, in in those things. ~ cooperating with him is a great way to

put it the way you put it right then.

~ but that and doing that on a big scale,

multiplication, which is the thing that ~ I've I remember back when

I was seventeen or eighteen when I first took the seminar,

you came to our church.

I still remember that analogy of the guys who really gifted guys were winning like,

what was it? Like a thousand people to Christ every

Yeah, we

yeah. Versus the guy who's like one,

then two, then like it was compounding,

Two one person

but it was slower to begin with.

every six months is what that d illustration is about.

Yeah.

I love that. By the way, that's how multiplication works in the kingdom.

That's how multiplication works with money.

That's how multiplication works for everything.

Is, you know, it there's this compounding effect over time.

~ but any investment like that,

we know this as people who maybe invest in the stock market or invest in the future.

Risk is the price you pay for opportunity.

And there is

Yeah, it's interesting, George,

when it comes to money,

the higher the risk, the the the greater the payout.

I mean, it's it's just really

Yeah.

interesting. I think the same thing is true in the spiritual realm,

that sometimes the risk is a little bit you know,

that's why we get afraid.

Yeah. ~ I mean, and this is a question I'm gonna ~ was gonna ask is

is that similar in in evangelism?

And you you you kinda already answered it there.

It is. how though how do we become bolder in our witness knowing there

is risk here? How do we become risk tolerant in evangelism?

Yeah. Well, if I if we knew that someone would be saved

if we talked, we

Mm.

would all be talking all the time.

I mean that there

Mm.

there's I I I deal with different I mean,

I was in this seminar last weekend,

~ we had 50 people plus in our seminar,

and I I looked around the room and there was not a single person in that room that

that wasn't there because they didn't want to see people come to Christ.

They were there because they wanted to see people come to Christ.

Mm. Mm.

The problem was

not that they didn't want to see people saved.

The problem was that they is not that they don't know enough.

The real problem is they don't know what's going to happen.

And we're we're hesitant because we don't know what this foray into evangelism

is is going to actually do. It's we don't know what where it's going to take us.

~ frankly, I think we're afraid of being asked questions that we don't know.

~ I think we're afraid someone's gonna really push back too hard.

~

Mm.

and I I feel like I

I was in a ~ store the other day and

I saw this statement. It was a it was a sporting schools store and it says,

You miss every shot you don't take.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

And I think I think we have to remember

that ~ we we're not gonna see anybody come to Christ if we don't introduce anybody

to Jesus. And

Mm.

~ and so w if we just have to kind of recognize the the only way this

is gonna happen is if I take the risk and and not every opportunity is gonna

hap is gonna is going to present itself as someone trusting Christ.

I know even in the New Testament it says some plant,

some water

some till and those are all people who are going to eventually trust christ there

are people who are eventually going to reject christ we're not every opportunity

is gonna pan out but we know

Mm.

this that if we don't take those opportunities no one is gonna be saved from

our ministry.

Hmm. ~ w what do you think is

the missing ingredient ~ that people don't maybe don't have

or don't have enough of that is necessary to have this multiplication mentality?

I think I think the real issue is do we believe that God is in the saving business?

Do we believe

Mm.

God will use me? And I that's that's really,

I mean, we we close every single session with pray the Lord of harvest that

he would send forth laborers. The reason we do that is because Jesus preceded that

prayer request with this statement the harvest is plenteous.

Mm.

And either we take him at his word.

~ and and take steps because we believe that's true or or we don't take

him in his word and do nothing because it if and faith is really the issue.

~ do I believe that God is genuinely in the saving business?

And do I believe that he has invested in me because he believes in me

and wants to use me?

You know, every time I've done an exchange bible study and I get to chapter two,

I kind of dread it. And but I am I'm almost never disappointed at by

the end of chapter two because here I think I'm stepping into

an uncomfortable conversation about the gospel.

This is an uncomfortable topic,

yet God blesses. I don't know if you have any moment in your life where

God surprised you when you stepped into an uncomfortable gospel conversation.

Can I just back up and and comment about that before I answer the question?

Yeah.

~ it's what I love about the Exchange Bible study is that lesson

two is coming whether we want it to or not.

~

True.

And so in a conversation, it's really easy to kind

of downplay it, to kind of sides it,

Mm, mm.

to kind of

and the nice thing about the Exchange Bible study is number one,

it's not me saying it. It well actually it is me.

You let the author say it and and you don't have to.

~ but it it it's the book,

it's the truth, it's the Bible saying these words.

Mm. Mm.

but

number two, ~ it

you know, lesson two follows lesson one and and people recognize I've

got to get through this. And and you're right,

over and over and over we see the outcome that is positive.

So you asked the question, what's the most ~ surprising,

~ uncomfortable gospel conversation?

Anna and I had a long conversation with

an atheist and Anna said at the end of the conversation,

Jeff, this is not working.

We we gotta do

Mm.

something different. ~ she suggested we get a a a an apologetics type book

and and kind of help him with it.

And I and I remember the conversation we had,

and basically my response was let's just give the gospel a chance.

Let's let he had he had agreed to do the four lesson Bible study,

and ~ I really wanted to see what was gonna happen.

And the the coolest thing is that

We didn't even get a chance to get to the third lesson.

After we finished lesson two, ~ he came to me and said,

~ literally these words, I don't need to study anymore because I'm convinced this

is true. I need to make

Mm.

what you told me about. And ~ I just would love for all of us to

To let that phrase go through our brain,

let's just give the gospel a chance.

Sometimes we ~ forward the the ~ opposition answers before

the opposition is even given to us.

so

Mm.

rather than s trying to apologetically convince someone,

let's just give the gospel a chance.

And as people have real problems with something that's being said,

then we can stop and answer those questions.

So I just

I watching Carleton come to Christ was one of those moments in which

I decided I'm gonna give the gospel a chance and I watched the gospel prove itself

to me. And we can always do that.

Yeah. Yep. Amen. ~ as we get ready to wrap this up,

~ let's just do a practical risk assessment.

So you just kind of trying to put ourselves always in the shoes of somebody

in our audience who's saying, Okay,

I want to become bolder and I've got some ideas on this,

but Jeff, you go first. What are some low risk,

high impact opportunities they can start taking this week?

Yeah, I I I love the question.

So tell me your story.

Hm.

most people love to talk about themselves and th you're showing interest

in that person and before you know it,

you're gonna get to the place where you can help them see Jesus.

So I think just my my favorite go-to is ~ so tell me a little bit about yourself.

Tell me your story. Where you know,

how how did you get to where we are today?

And ~ it's just really cool to watch that happen.

Hmm. I I I love that. the one one that I love

is ~ almost nobody, even an atheist,

probably won't turn you down if you go,

hey, can I pray pray for you? Is that okay?

How can I pray for you? Can I pray with you right now?

~ pe people just ~ of all faiths,

backgrounds, worldviews, they pray.

And so ~ it's kind of an interesting thing,

the credence even the world pays to prayer.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting,

~ you you hear about what's going on in Nepal and people say,

we gotta be praying for those people,

you know, we gotta be thinking about that.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

And I just think that's

really ~ true. I another one that I think is really,

really simple is and I I know I wrote the Bible study,

I'm supposed to say this, but it is

Mm-hmm.

so easy to just tell people I have this four lesson Bible study that

I really believe the two of us would enjoy studying together.

It's just a simple introduction to who God is,

how to have a close relationship with him.

Use as the

Yeah.

Bible so that you s see it for yourself and decide whether you believe it

and ~ just offer to study the Bible and specifically the exchange bible study with

people.

Hm. Yeah, I love that. ~ I love that.

We've talked about other things before.

most people drink coffee. Everybody eats.

Okay, so those are easy ones. Inviting them to just common things.

every and you talk about this,

Jeff. ~ I think in giving the exchange,

your testimony is ~ a presentation of the gospel.

It's w it's one of the best gospel tools.

Yeah, and it is the most

powerful tool to get into gospel conversations of anything else we have.

~ just telling our own story. So invite their you know,

tell me your story. And then the cool thing is when I invite someone else

to tell me their story, they usually reciprocate by wanting to hear my story.

So that and I'm always gonna tell my spiritual journey.

Yeah, absolutely. ~ okay, last thing,

lightning round. When we stand before Jesus one day,

what do you think he'll care most about regarding our witness?

Yeah. I just finished Conversations with Jesus,

Volume Two, and in that section we have the ~ denial of Peter.

And I just think to myself, when Peter was standing at that fire

~ and denied Jesus, the likelihood of him seeing someone converted

if he just started witnessing to them wasn't very high.

I mean, that wasn't why he was there.

What Jesus wanted Peter to do.

was to stand with him. And I I really feel like ~ what

God is gonna want from me when I get to heaven is not how many people

did you lead to Jesus, but did you stand with me?

I I think he wants us to love

him so much that we have to talk about him.

I mean that's that's literally the biggest issue.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, did you hide hide your light under the bushel or did you l

set it up on a hill? ~ were you ashamed of me?

Like you said before, ~ you know,

are we wearing it comfortably on our shirt sleeve?

~ yeah, I I think that's a great one.

anything else before we close this out?

You know, I don't know that this will touch other people as much as it touches me,

but my friend Mike Reddick and I were in the Philippines together and

I was just overwhelmed by the physical needs around me.

And I knew that Mike was involved with helping some specific kids make their

way through college and those sort of things.

And I said, Mike, I said, doesn't doesn't this get overwhelming to you?

I mean

And I will never forget what he said.

Just because I can't do something for everyone doesn't

Mm.

mean I can't do something for someone.

And I think sometimes

Mm.

we get a little overwhelmed at God told me to go g give the gospel

to every creature. And ~ if I think about the overwhelming nature of it,

it can kind of paralyze me and and help and not do anything.

And so I kind

Mm.

of love that thought. I

I I'm just gonna do something for someone.

I I really believe this. God doesn't expect me to win the world,

but He does expect me to win someone.

And so that's that's that's what I want to just leave

Mm-hmm.

with everybody. Look, God doesn't expect us to do everything,

but He does expect us to do something.

Mm, mm. Amen. Amen. ~ yeah,

I I I think that's that's a great way to to to end it.

That's that's the truth about this situation.

And ~ you know, we go into the harvest,

we pray this every week with you guys,

but we know that some water, some sow,

but God gives the increase. and so it's God who wins,

and Jesus does win. I mean, read the book of Revelation to summarize

the whole book of Revelation as Jesus wins.

And so, ~

Pray with us as we pray to the Lord of the harvest that he would send forth

laborers. We love you guys. Thank you so much for listening.

If you haven't subscribed, subscribe to the podcast and share it with somebody.

Share it with your pastor or somebody in your church who's who's down about gospel

opportunities, who's who feels frustrated by evangelism.

And reach out to us if we can be a help to you in any way.

my email is george at exchangemessage.org.

I'd be happy to interact with you or even pass you on to Jeff if you have

a question for him. So ~ we love you guys and we will see you next week.