In this episode of 'Dare to Be More', host Anthony Perl speaks with Dr Jan Milburn OAM, whose remarkable journey from MLC School student in the 1950s to award-winning educator and principal demonstrates the transformative power of exceptional education.

Jan shares her memories of MLC School during an era when most teachers were single women dedicated to their vocation, and when the School was one of the first girls' schools to offer physics and chemistry. She describes how the depth of learning and strong values she experienced at MLC School opened up horizons that would shape her entire life, from her PhD studies in London to her career as a teacher, principal, and education consultant.

The conversation explores Jan's multiple returns to MLC School - first as a teacher of English and history, then as Head of English, and later as a consultant working on computing and public relations. She reflects on the privilege of serving on the selection panel for Principal Barbara Stone and how each return felt like paying back what the School had given her whilst contributing to its future.

Jan discusses her extensive career in education, including her time as Principal of New England Girls School and her consultancy work with diverse schools across New South Wales - from Islamic and Jewish schools to Greek Orthodox and other faith-based institutions. She shares how this exposure helped her understand Australia's cultural diversity decades before it became widely recognised.

The episode includes Jan's surprise at receiving her Order of Australia Medal for services to education and her work with families of Vietnam veterans, chairing the national selection panel for Agent Orange scholarships. She reflects on the unexpected ways teachers influence students' lives, sharing touching stories of former students who reached out years later to express their gratitude.

The conversation concludes with Jan's powerful interpretation of 'dare to be more', drawing on the SAS motto 'he who dares wins' to explain why taking calculated risks - physically, spiritually, and mentally - is essential to truly living rather than merely existing, and how this philosophy has enabled her to accomplish the best version of herself.

Connect with MLC School:

• Website
• Facebook 
• Instagram 
• LinkedIn 

Host:  Anthony Perl

Production: Podcasts Done For You. For more information about podcast production services, visit podcastsdoneforyou.com.au.

Inspiring journeys of alumni award winners.

2

Welcome to Dare to Be More, the podcast

from MLC School in Burwood, Sydney.

3

Today we are honored to feature Dr.

4

Jan Millburn, OAM, whose extraordinary

journey from MLC School student to

5

award-winning educator demonstrates the

lasting impact of exceptional education.

6

Discover how early mentorship shaped her

remarkable career, the pivotal moments

7

that defined her success and her insights

on taking calculated risks in life.

8

Learn why she believes that.

9

To truly live you must dare to

step beyond the safe path, and

10

you'll hear her powerful advice

for current students dreaming of

11

making their mark in the world.

12

I'm your co-host, Anthony Pearl.

13

Let's get into today's conversation.

14

Well, hello everyone and welcome

to another episode of Dare to Be

15

More, and I would dare say this is

going to be one of our most special

16

episodes, yet I am delighted to

have Jan Milburn, OAM joining us.

17

Thank you so much for being

part of the program, Jan.

18

Jan Milburn: Thank you too for having me.

19

I went to MLC as a

student at the age of 11.

20

I left after sitting in the leaving

21

and went on to the University of

Sydney where I did a Bachelor of

22

Arts and then a diploma of education.

23

And I went back and taught in the

department for, I think it was two years.

24

And then I went back to MLC as a

teacher in English and history.

25

Ms.

26

Stark and some of my old teachers

were still there then, and Dr.

27

Whitley, whom I had met when I was a

student, when she was leaving to go

28

over to England to do her PhD in London.

29

So I actually left MLC in 65, 19 65.

30

And went to the University of

London to do my PhD and I was

31

there for three and a half years.

32

Came back, was at the University of

Macquarie on the staff, and then Dr.

33

Whitley rang me up and asked if I'd go

back to be head of English because Ms.

34

Stark was retiring.

35

And so I went back as a teacher

and I knew Ken Cornwall very well,

36

and we were really good friends.

37

And I left in 73 to be principal

at New England Girls School.

38

My husband was at the University

of New England, and Ken and

39

I of course stayed friends.

40

I spoke at one of the speech days

41

we both left in MLC and I left Ns.

42

I became a, a consultant.

43

And one of my first jobs as an education

consultant was to go back to MLC

44

and do some work on what they could

do with computing public relations.

45

The other interesting thing,

I dunno whether people are

46

interested or not, but I was on the

selection panel for Barbara Stone.

47

Bruce Bagley, the chairman of council.

48

I think Bruce was then asked me,

so Barbara, the council, that's

49

why I, they asked me to go and be a

consultant and I did some work there

50

and I think that probably, I think

that covers all my career at MLC.

51

Anthony Perl: It's

certainly a, a long career.

52

I'm fascinated by the influence the school

has clearly had, because I think it's the

53

ultimate endorsement of the school that

you not only went back, but you went back

54

as a teacher and you kept going back.

55

It's clearly had a big influence on you.

56

Jan Milburn: Yes, it did.

57

I really loved Ms.

58

Stark, who was the English, well, she

was head of English when I was a student,

59

and I did English Honors under her.

60

And I liked Dr.

61

Whitley too very much, and

it had a big impact on me.

62

And

63

it was sort of a personal thing because

both times I went back to teach.

64

I was actually asked if I would come

back and, and I was delighted to because

65

in a sense it was playing back what the

school had given to me and hopefully

66

I was then contributing to its future.

67

And then I was very privileged to be asked

to participate in the selection panel.

68

It was, Barbara Stone was an incredibly.

69

Grace Head of MLC.

70

So it was really, and then to work with

her for a little while when I consulted.

71

That was great too.

72

So, no, it was a school that actually gave

73

It was one of the few girls schools

that did physics and chemistry.

74

In fact, I think it might have been the

first girl school to introduce physics

75

into the curriculum, and it just had a

depth and it, it had very good discipline.

76

Some people thought the discipline was

too much, but I, I enjoyed the structure

77

and I enjoyed the depth of learning.

78

Nothing was too difficult for you

to keep exploring and Miss ard.

79

It's bad that I can't remember

her name properly, but was the

80

librarian and she was fantastic too.

81

So you had a wonderfully

rounded education list.

82

I felt that way and it opened up horizons.

83

I went overseas, as

you know, to do my PhD.

84

I'd also gone overseas in 1960 and.

85

C, the education I'd had there

really prepared for me to have

86

wonderful trips overseas in

history, in English, in literature.

87

It was wonderful to go and

visit the places that the

88

school had taught me about it.

89

So it actually, it actually

affected my life very, very much.

90

Anthony Perl: Tell me what's

your memory of what school was

91

like when you first joined MLC?

92

Jan Milburn: Well, compared to what

education is like today, I think the

93

girls would be thinking they went back

to the Victorian era because most of the

94

members of staff, of course, including

the principal, or sorry, in my day, there

95

was a principal and a head mistress.

96

Sorry.

97

So the principal was a Methodist minister.

98

The head when I went there was Dr.

99

Wade, and she would be one

of the memories I have.

100

But certainly it was, I suppose, all

single women, I can't think of perhaps

101

one or two in the fifties when I went in

102

And it was, I think they were

so dedicated to teaching.

103

It was the location with nursing

that women went into in the

104

1950s, and it was their life.

105

And some people might have

thought that made them too.

106

What can I say?

107

Too precious, if you understand the

way I'm using that word, but I actually

108

found that attitude interpreted for

me that they cared about the students

109

rather than fuss too much about them.

110

So I enjoyed that.

111

So that was an impression, but certainly

I would say their dedication to

112

their subject was another thing too.

113

Anthony Perl: And I imagine physically

the school has changed a lot.

114

Oh, physically, from those early days,

115

Jan Milburn: as I said, not only from

the staffing point of view, would the

116

girls think you'd gone back to the

Victorian era, but the physical, goodness

117

me, I can't even begin to describe it.

118

Uh, the girls today would think it

was claustrophobic, pokey, amateurish,

119

like with the science laboratories.

120

The gymnasium was only a room

virtually, but we had a few

121

pieces of equipment, not much.

122

We certainly had very good outdoor

physical education, although not the

123

opportunities that the girls have today.

124

But the library was, and as I said,

the librarian was extremely good.

125

But again, nothing to the,

nothing to the library and all of

126

the technology they have today.

127

Anthony Perl: I mean, tell me,

was it back in those days when you

128

were at school, how early on did

you think I want to be a teacher?

129

How early on did you maybe even dream that

you would go back to MLC as part of that?

130

Well, I

131

Jan Milburn: never dreamed I would go

back, to be honest, but I was actually

132

probably from my first year, which

133

from then wanted to be a teacher.

134

I briefly changed my mind after when

I got the leaving certificate and

135

thought I might change to arts law

because I was quite interested in law.

136

And my father went to visit one of his

friends who ran a solicitor's practice

137

in Sydney, and he just said this.

138

That was my dad, who was a very, very.

139

Great father, as was my mother.

140

I was lucky with my parents.

141

Dad came back and he said, Jan, Stan

has said that it's really not a good

142

thing for the women to go into law.

143

I think he, he thinks she'd be better

to stick to teaching even though I'd won

144

a Commonwealth scholarship and so on.

145

So I stuck to teaching and

I haven't regretted it.

146

I'm glad.

147

But these days girls

would not accept that.

148

I don't think they would, you

know, they, they would think.

149

Why can't I do that?

150

Whereas we were more compliant,

but it didn't worry me.

151

I mean, because I was, I wanted

to be a teacher, so that was good.

152

Anthony Perl: I was gonna say, it's a very

noble career and a very rewarding career.

153

I imagine over the, you know,

when you reflect back on it.

154

Jan Milburn: Yes.

155

Oh, I wouldn't have changed being

an education Anthony, for anything.

156

I had the most incredible career and

the people that I've met through it.

157

Like for example, when I was doing my

consultancy work, I worked with most

158

of the Islamic schools in Sydney, the

Jewish cobbles, the Greek Orthodox

159

school, and Nan Marga and Hari

Krishna schools up on the north cos.

160

So I've actually been exposed through

education to so much of the diversity,

161

and this is back in the 1990s now.

162

Australia that I think I probably

understood a lot of the roots of where

163

we are today much earlier because of

my exposure on a quite a, well only in

164

the state of New South Wales because

that's where my consultancy was grounded.

165

So it was a really, no, I'd never

changed it and my time doing

166

my PhD in England and I was.

167

Investigating the

Association of Head mistress.

168

It was the first professional body

of women in English history, and

169

I mean going around to all of the,

the schools in England and you know,

170

working on their archives and so on.

171

Now, I wouldn't change it for

anything if I'd been a lawyer.

172

It had just been very blase

compared to what I was exposed to.

173

Anthony Perl: Tell me about the

influence of, of MLC and the values

174

that, and the way that influenced

you, you know, throughout your career.

175

Jan Milburn: Well, I was honored,

even though I, I didn't think

176

I'd ever go back and teach there.

177

I was really honored when I was asked to.

178

So that was something.

179

And the reason I was honored would fit

with what you asked me in the question.

180

The values were that you had to.

181

The, the best possible example of what you

took on in life, you couldn't be mediocre.

182

Um, you actually had to, well, using the

title of the podcast, you had to dare to

183

be more, and that I think is what I took.

184

And not just in knowledge of your

subject, but in your character as well.

185

No, I, I met some very, very fine women

at MLC in on the staff and I, and some

186

of the old girls too are just wonderful.

187

Anthony Perl: Yeah.

188

I mean, how much do you

keep in contact with?

189

Those people and their stories

are, you know, well, unfortunately,

190

Jan Milburn: because of my age,

I have lost a lot of friends.

191

I've lost one of my very best

friends a few years back.

192

I was her bridesmaid and we

kept in touch now all our lives.

193

But I'm having lunch in a couple of

weeks with one of my classmates who

194

is still with us, and that was Lynn

Hungerford and she's now Lynn Ham.

195

And so I've kept in touch

with her all the time.

196

I've kept in touch with R Cooper, who is

R Mann, and she had a brilliant career,

197

Roz, so I've kept in touch with those two.

198

Roz cannot was my friend

who died and let me think.

199

I was bridesmaid to another

one, Mau in wood woodlands.

200

But we lost touch after about 20 years,

and I'd say they, they were the ones

201

that I've kept in touch with most.

202

Anthony Perl: And what about those you

taught with and those that you taught?

203

Jan Milburn: Yes.

204

The ones I taught with at MLC,

interestingly enough, one of them,

205

I'd just recently been honored by

MLC with one of their alumni awards,

206

and it was actually one of my old

students who nominated me for that.

207

So.

208

And then I also had kept in touch

with, well, again, off and on with

209

some of them back in the 1990s

when I went back as a consultant.

210

So yeah.

211

Interesting.

212

It's the same as when I

was principal at Negs.

213

You perhaps sometimes sort of months

and months and months where you're

214

very, an old girl rings you, it's

got a problem or something like that,

215

and you have quite a lot of contact

with them while you're helping or.

216

Doing whatever it is you do, listen

is often the thing you need to

217

do most, but then after that you,

you lose touch with them again.

218

So it's, yeah.

219

It's probably not a consistent

relationship, whereas

220

your classmates, it is.

221

Anthony Perl: Do you reflect

back on the, the influence that

222

MLC had then subsequently knew

being a principal and a teacher?

223

And how much that's

influenced other people.

224

Jan Milburn: That's

really a good question.

225

In fact, you can't really gauge.

226

The answer to that question because

you never know your influence.

227

Like Michelle, who nominated me for

the award, well, I mean, she just came

228

out of the blue down at a bus stop at

circularly in Sydney, and so you don't

229

realize you're influenced sometimes, but.

230

Even at Negs, a girl that I used

to teach at MLC, Joanne, she came,

231

applied for a job on the staff

and she became my head of English.

232

So yeah, my, the influence

is quite widespread.

233

And one day, one of them, she

was working for forestry, I think

234

Ann, yeah, I think that was right.

235

She came down to Negs.

236

Because she was at a conference at

the University of New England and

237

I was just in the corridor walking

and she said, you know, doc Dr.

238

Melbourne?

239

And she introduced herself and it

was, and she said, I just had to come.

240

Um, and because I'm, I was sure

it was you who was the head, and

241

she said, I want to come and tell

you, you know what it, you know how

242

you've affected my career and so on.

243

So.

244

I dunno whether that answers your

question very well, but it, it's

245

interesting, the influence you have.

246

I'm sure I had a bad influence on some

people too, but certainly you have a good

247

influence on more people than you think.

248

Anthony Perl: I wanted to ask you as

well, tell me about the moment you

249

found out you were getting an OAM

and then that day when that happened.

250

Jan Milburn: Oh, that

was, that was wonderful.

251

That was for my services to education,

but also for my work with the families

252

of veterans, the Vietnam veterans.

253

I was.

254

Well, to be honest, I didn't

even know I'd been nominated.

255

So when I got the letter, I was

flabbergast, I think is probably the best

256

word, but I just couldn't believe it.

257

But then the Vietnam people had

nominated me and when I said

258

to them, did you nominate me?

259

Because a few years earlier we'd

that they'd nominated the major.

260

Behind the Agent Orange Money, which

was used for university scholarships

261

for the children and Vietnam veterans,

and that's the scheme I was in.

262

I was the chairman of the national

Selection panel from all states,

263

and we chose students to go to

university on scholarships at who were.

264

First of all with the Agent Orange

Money, they were children of Vietnam

265

veterans and then later grandchildren.

266

But by that stage, the Agent Orange money

had run out and we formed another veterans

267

charity and we ended up helping people

from Afghanistan, Iraq War, et cetera.

268

Uh, so.

269

That was what the OAM was for,

but I still can't believe the

270

day that I opened that letter.

271

The surprise was enormous.

272

Anthony Perl: I can imagine.

273

One final question that we ask

everyone coming on the show.

274

What does Dare to be more mean to you?

275

Jan Milburn: Well, probably I've

answered in some of the earlier

276

questions, dare to be more means.

277

The motto of the SAS is he who daress

wins and dare to be more, I think is

278

encapsulated in he Who Dares wins.

279

We need in life to make calculated

risks and we need to dare to.

280

To look at the opportunities and

sometimes even make those opportunities

281

if we see the circumstances are right,

but I've got no, no hesitation in

282

saying if you live a life that's safe

in all ways, physically, spiritually,

283

mentally, whatever, you, in my couple

opinion, you don't live, you exist.

284

But dare to be more, or he who dares

wins to me, that sums up the fact that

285

you can be alive and accomplish the best

version of yourself that you can be.

286

Anthony Perl: Well undoubtedly you

have achieved all of those things.

287

Janet has been an absolute delight talking

to you, so thank you so much for sharing.

288

No

289

Jan Milburn: problem, Anthony.

290

Thank you very much indeed and

good luck with the project.

291

Anthony Perl: Thank you for

joining us on Dare To Be More.

292

If you enjoyed this episode, please

subscribe wherever you get your

293

podcast so you never miss an episode.

294

Your likes and comments also

help more families discover

295

these valuable conversations.

296

For more information about MLC School

and their approach to girls' education.

297

Visit their website@mlcsid.msw.edu.au.

298

Check out the show notes

for more information.

299

The Dare To Be More Podcast is

produced by podcast done for you.

300

I'm your host, Anthony Pearl,

and we invite you to join us next

301

time as we continue to explore

what it means to dare to be more.