Ben Canning is a personal trainer and founder and CEO of BC Training. On this episode Ben and I discuss how to stick to your fitness and health goals. How joining a like-minded community can help keep you on track to reach your goals. We also discuss at length the ins and outs of the fitness industry.

BC Training is a personal training and fitness organization that assists both men and women to reach their desired goals and hit their maximum potential. Ben works with a number of clients worldwide around physical fitness, training, and mental health.

Ben is co-host of the weekly podcast We Hack Health with Dave Kennedy which has started a fitness and wellness movement online with the #WeHackHealth . Go check it out Twitter and their Discord channel, links in the show notes. They have the second coolest logo on the interwebs next to mine.

https://twitter.com/bencanning87

https://twitter.com/wehackhealth

#fitness

#health

#fitnesstips

#workouts

One of the most popular industries that trends in podcasts and

social media and YouTube in particular is fitness and health.

You can't go two clicks without seeing another video on the best

tips and tricks to lose weight.

Get better in shape.

Get stronger.

Get faster.

On this episode of the business Samurai podcast.

My next guest is personal trainer, Ben Canning out of Ireland.

He primarily focuses on technology and cybersecurity professionals and

increasing their fitness, healthy lifestyles and making it stick.

He is co-host of the hashtag we hack health podcast and movement

that you can find on Twitter and on discord that has taken a new twist

on creating this healthy lifestyle.

That Is sharing your progress and sharing your journey in a community

platform that is very public and getting the support of many others around

you, of which I also participate in.

By sharing out pictures of food, prep and pictures of my workout.

So sit back and listen as Ben and I discuss the ins and outs of

the fitness industry, the fitness community, and how being part of the

community can help you achieve your goals and stick to your goals longer.

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Our aim is to not only entertain, but educate for you to recognize how

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Sit back, enjoy, and welcome to the business Samurai podcast.

I am your host, John Barker.

So take a couple minutes.

Give a breakdown of your entry into the fitness space because out of some

of the businesses a start, you're one of the trifecta, they always

say health wealth and relationships.

So kinda give us the back little backstory.

How much detail and how many profanities am I allowed to use?

You are allowed to use one profanity, every word

. Okay.

So for me if we go way back.

Before I did what I'm doing.

I realized quite early on that I was highly unemployable.

I just didn't work well for working with other people.

So I knew that there was needed to be something that I did

that was me working for myself.

And it's always just fallen into whatever I have been into at the time,

fortunately or unfortunately depend on what way you look at it, the first sort.

Business, I guess that I ran was providing transport to different nightclubs across

the country, which was just an excuse for me to get drunk five outta seven nights

a week and get paid pretty well for it.

The shelf life of that was quite short to be honest, because I

just couldn't keep up with it.

And then after that, I found myself in the gym instead of in the club.

A friend of mine qualified as a personal trainer and he was like, look, I need

someone to do a have my first ever before.

And after I was like I need to stop being a piss head every single weekend.

So I'm your guy.

And then just absolutely fell in love with it.

I.

At that time worked for someone again, really hated it.

And I was like what do I do to get out of this?

I had, after my original coach, I had an online coach and I was like, this online

coaching thing seems like the one, like this guy just sent me emails every week.

Like it seems to be easy enough.

So I was like what do I need to do to become an online coach?

The first step was obviously become a gym floor coach, like a gym floor PT.

So I tried in that, I moved into that started working on

the gym floor in December, 2016.

And it was always my goal to go fully online by December, 2021.

So I'd given myself five years, I guess that was to be fully

online, off the gym floor.

Obviously the recent global shit show pushed everything that little bit forward.

And from March.

2020, at least.

So I guess two years I've been fully online, which has been

the best thing I've ever done.

Awesome.

How did you have any other like fitness influences in your life

to help that career transition?

Was it just working on that gym that kind of gave you the experience or

is there other certifications and stuff like that to set you apart?

So the being qualified as a PT, I don't know if it's the same over there.

I assume it's probably something similar.

The way I describe it is it's almost like adult learning, you

just pay for the qualification.

So it's like, when you do your driving test, they teach you how to pass

your driving test, but they don't actually teach you how to drive.

So whenever you get that initial certificate, it's like, like, okay.

And then you sit down with an actual human in front of you and they

tell you this the problems and you.

What kids with the fucking textbook was this on?

I don't remember this, but so there is a lot of learning from clients.

And I think that's the best thing that you can do is just work with a lot of

people to get an understand of how people actually work on what their needs are.

But in terms of like other qualifications, there isn't really anything specific,

especially over here that is seen as a deemed as a qualification, but there

are like, weekly or, biweekly courses or, weekends away or physics camps or,

education camps or nutrition, things that I've done just along the way there, my

sort of interest is, has moved along.

Well,

the kicker here is, in the United States, the only thing you gotta

be do is shirtless pictures on

Instagram you instantly qualified.

Yeah.

That's the scene.

Yeah.

Yeah.

that's it.

You just needed to photo shoot, then you're fully qualified.

Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah.

I wanna do what he's doing or she's doing how

much, but speaking of that, this is something we haven't really talked

before this, other than the hashtag we hack Twitter and you see my week lifts

because I'm always hurt, which we'll get into that, a little bit later.

But how much has the the Instagram and the tos and all of that, nonsense, that's out

there fricking ruined, people's attitudes and what they think it actually takes

to improve, getting a healthy lifestyle, getting a weight that they like.

You don't have to be ripped, but getting, are you, how does that affect when

somebody comes to you and says, help me.

Help me,

the the fitness industry as a whole, in my opinion, is a shit show.

Because of, for that exact reason, because people will post pictures of

themselves when they look their best.

Cuz they've just done a photo shoot and they've went through

absolute hell to get there.

And then they try and sell that to you as in I did this in 10 weeks, so

here you go, like I'll charge you X amount of dollars or pounds for it.

Whenever that is massively unrealistic in terms of a timeframe and whatever else.

And as I've developed as a coach, I have realized that body and

the physique is almost the last thing that you worry about.

And I think that's something that's massively overlooked in the

start, especially, with the people that I work with is overcoming

their sort of mental challenges.

And then almost like F.

Teaching them to forget everything that they know about training and

nutrition, because with no disrespect to anybody, they don't come on a call with

me cuz they are in super good shape.

Do you know what I mean?

They come because they're, it's a shamble in some way, shape or form.

And they're like, oh, but I used to do this and I used to do that

and I'm like, we need to forget everything that you used to do.

And then we're gonna build out, what we do moving forward.

So it answered your question Instagram and TikTok and social media and influencers

and the fitness industry, I guess it's been the best and the worst thing for it

because it's been good in a sense that it has increased people's awareness of

their health and fitness, but it has been bad in the sense that it's given

them unrealistic expectations because people will come in and be like, oh yeah,

you I'm going on holiday in six weeks.

So I need a six pack and I'm like, okay, you need to come to me a year ago

and then we probably need you there.

the, I guess the, how hard is it to deprogram the people that are getting

constantly bombarded with that.

Day in and day out.

I'm gonna say initially it, it was quite difficult because it was

just me telling them, but one of the best tools that I now have is

everybody else in the client group.

So at the start of the pandemic originally I started a weekly group

call because people wanted the director with other humans and whatever else.

And one thing that I've picked up on that is that, I'm pretty

much telling people the opposite of what they're used to doing.

So they're like, I need to eat a thousand calories a day and do two

hours of cardio and whatever else I'm like, no, we need to not do that.

And then whenever I'm.

Telling people that they need to start increasing their calories.

If they wanna lose weight.

They're like, I think I've contacted the wrong guy.

but if there's 15, 20, 25 other people in the group who have been through

that process who have overcome those things themselves, they can tell

him, just trust the process or, he actually knows what he's talking

about, or this is how I dealt with it.

And I often, if I'm on initial consultation calls, I will, I'll

try and emphasize the importance of the client group beyond me.

Cuz it's something that I can't provide by myself.

Do you know what I mean?

It's everything that from their insights and their perspectives

that, that they provide that I can't give just being a coach.

Yeah.

And I think that's one of the things that's helpful when you see the online

community, these guys putting in the work day in and day out, with the Twitter using

that hashtag it's that reinforcement that community reinforcement, coaching by.

And that drives me as well.

Cause you know, I'm like, I can't be, everybody I'll, just sharing oh

yeah, hashtag we hack golf and I'm sitting, having beers and with feed

up and not actually train into it.

I'm like, I need to live and breathe it.

Like I need to do it if I'm prescribing it.

Do you know what I mean?

I

guess that's the difference between you setting the lifestyle versus a diet.

Yeah.

You've gotta turn it into a lifestyle.

People are looking the shortcuts.

And speaking of that, when somebody comes to you they're, it's like

doing the hard work versus looking for cheats, what's that magic pill.

What's that supplement, how can I do this without touching a

weight, taking a walk outside?

How, if somebody is.

How desperate are they when they actually come to you to want change

for them to actually get off out their asses and do something?

I think, I guess everything's person dependent.

A lot of coaching in my opinion is saying it depends.

Or does that make sense?

So in terms of being it person dependent, it depends what experience

that they've had before, or, what sort of situation that they're in.

Are they the person that is maybe a hundred pounds over wit or are they the

person that maybe struggles to put on.

What is their motivation for change?

Is it that they're overweight and it's health related and they're like, I

need to fucking do this because if I don't, my doctor says I'm gonna die.

And I've literally had those conversations before, or is it the similar sort

of background that I came from that it's I'm like skinny little boy.

Like I'm meant to be, 30 years of age and I'm skinny here.

Like how do I, change here?

Like how do I fit into my clothes?

And it's a confidence thing.

Or it's a, they just wanna look and feel a certain way.

So it depends.

On what they actually need, but they generally come to me with

their own perception of what they think that they should be doing.

And we need just UN, unravel all that and just literally start from the basics.

And I don't have a, I look at you as a person and you've told me that, you're

a family man, or you're a business owner, so I fit you into this box.

It's what are you doing at the minute?

And how do we improve on each aspect of those rather than trying to just

delete all of that and flip the table upside down and go, right?

I need you to do X, Y, and Z, and that's gonna get you to where you wanna be,

because I find over time that the too much change at once is overwhelming.

It's hard to manage.

So if we just look at, the things that we're doing and the things that we can

improve on gradually, then you generally have much more long term success.

And for me, what I want to give everybody is an understanding of their body and

what's good for them and how they can progress in whatever their goal is.

So you actually hit something I had wrote down is talking about too many

changes at once for a lot of people.

It, once I know even some of the stuff I'm going through now, this, the stuff that,

where you've got didn't happen overnight.

Yeah.

Whether it's, like you said, you're a hundred pounds overweight

or you can't keep, it didn't happen overnight, so you can't

expect it.

Yeah.

You didn't gain a hundred pounds in six weeks, so you're

not gonna use it in six weeks.

That sounds like a good diet challenge to do for YouTube.

To be honest with you I'm gained.

Yes.

That would definitely be quick bit like I'm would be a YouTube star instantly.

those ones that are like, Hey let's can you eat a hundred

thousand calories in one day?

I haven't seen that one yet.

They're using in 10 , but how do you manage, is this a part of.

Trying to gauge a baseline and I'm gonna stick it to, I, and please dive into

how you gauge like a mental baseline for where somebody's at as well.

Since that, that's obviously a big part of this, but do you of say,

Hey, gimme a baseline of, what you do for a week or two, and then we

can of go from there to start making small incremental adjustments.

Is that kind of your approach?

Yeah.

So I guess I'll take it back even further and talk you through like

how the actual process of, if you pick a call with me actually works.

So I assume that you will have done your research and been on

the website the way the website is not very much except burger call.

So whenever you click that book a call, it will set up the time.

And what that will do is it'll send you out an initial questionnaire.

Now, again, this is something that's been built up over time.

That it's quite an extensive question because I find that the more that I

know the better, so there's maybe I think there's maybe 75 80 questions.

And that to me is to give me an idea as to nice what goes on in their general life.

Can I interject something into that as well?

Real quick.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think from a business perspective, if somebody is willing to.

75 to 80 questions, a hundred percent.

Their pain is enough that they want your help and it's not a fly by night thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm filling that for some stuff I'm working on.

So please continue.

Sorry for interrupt.

But

that's the, that, that is it almost, pre-qualifies the person that if

they're gonna take the time to fill out, then they're willing to have the

conversation and they, they're in a place that they're ready to make change.

Whereas some people would look at them and be like, fuck

that I'm not filling that in.

Like it's too many questions like, oh, is this guy need

to know about whatever it is.

So it's quite extensive.

It's really extensive.

It covers, what they do day to day, who they live with, who is in charge of their

food, their shopping their sleep, how many alcoholic beverages they have, how many

caffeine beverages they have, like what their training looks like at the minute,

what their food looks like at the minute.

It's a lot, but that also gives me, I'll spend half an hour, 45 minutes before I

have a call with them going through it.

I'm looking for like red flags or things to, to pick up in, in conversation.

And generally that gives me a pretty good insight as to, okay.

They have been tracking their food for the past three months.

So they're already maybe a slight bit ahead, or this person has

been training for five years, but hasn't seen any change.

And it's just like ready to bang his head against the wall, cuz he is not making

any changes or it's this person has had the health scare and they've never trained

or they've never looked after their food.

So the doctors just told them, they need to sort something else night and they're

coming to me with an absolute clean slate in terms of what they're doing.

So that in itself is almost like it starts to allow me to build a picture.

Then whenever we have the call, I always preface the call with this is

just the sort of conversation first of your questionnaire, because you know

yourself, if you're talking to someone, you can see them, the answers that

they give you are slightly different than the ones that they write down.

So you just put it into you, just put it into their hands.

In terms of the way that I said is I look this calls for me to get an idea of.

What you're struggling with, what brought you here?

If I can help.

And then what that actually looks like in terms of building

out a plan moving forward.

And I will, depending on the feedback that I'm getting, I will probe them on

things in terms of they'll maybe tell me that they want to, I dunno, have

the confidence to take their shirt off whenever they go to the beach.

I'm like, okay.

But I wanna know why that you want to have that.

Like, why do you want that?

Is it for you?

Is it because someone fucked you off and over, you were younger and you've

been overweight ever since then.

What's the reason why.

And then that's, whenever you start to get into the, sort of the mindset

side of things, because if you can have an understanding of why people

actually want these things, then to get them there, it's that little bit

easier rather than being like, okay.

Once a six back.

Perfect.

This is the plan for that.

Send it to him.

That's it?

That.

That to me is like the perfect approach.

Again, going back to somebody's desperate enough that they want the change

that they're, that they are looking for, how quickly it, does it take

to get

somebody to, once you get them into the process where they're starting to build

up their own steam, they're starting to see some of those changes in there and

they're like, Hey Ben let's make this a little, let's make this a little bit more.

I like this.

Is I imagine that's also probably a happy trigger point for you where you're going.

All right.

I know what I'm doing here.

I'm actually qualified.

I understand.

What's going on here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's actually funny cuz on the weekly group called a couple of weeks ago, one

of the guys was saying that he had passed the value of sorrow as he called it.

And I was like, explain that.

And he was like when you sign up initially, you have this like.

immediate, like I'm so excited.

This is gonna change my life.

This is the best decision I've ever made.

And then it obviously takes time for the results to follow.

So you go through this say from week five until week 10 or 11, that there's

slight changes happening, but you feel like you're putting a lot of

effort in and you want more changes.

And then you go like week 12 and beyond you really start to see a physical change.

You feel better, your sleeping better, your energy levels are better.

All these things are better.

And then it's like you said, you're like if I feel good, this good training,

three times a week or 45 minutes, what if I were to do four times a week?

And then that's whenever it starts to come and you're like, eh, I wanna be bit more.

And then you get into that real positive, should actually feel really good.

And then, everything that I look at is beyond just what the physical change is.

It's.

How are their energy on the calls whenever I'm speaking to them or, how are

they getting on at work or, they just, there's a different look about them.

And one thing that I always will put back to people, if I'm looking at their

checking photos or whatever, I'll compare their first photos, obviously like the

original ones to like, whatever week run.

I'm like, like how much tall you're standing or look at how much happier

you'd look in terms of the smile.

So it's, there's a lot to come along with it.

But in terms of what you're asking generally, for people to start

this actually physically see change, cuz you see yourself so

much to physically see change.

I generally find it's about 12 from about 12 weeks on because

you're very critical of yourself.

Cause you see yourself every single day okay.

Yes.

You can maybe see whip come down or measurements coming down, but the numbers

on the check in sheet don't mean shit.

If you can't look at them around and go, I'm actually different, right?

That's that internal motivation dive into this real

quick, because I'll let you explain it about the, not just strictly

tracking the weight, that you see on the scale, but also how the

measurements are so important to know which type of progress you're making.

Yeah.

For me, if I could fuck the scale, like the window for everybody, I

would, because it's the biggest, it's the biggest hurdle in itself.

And I think it I've had this actually had this conversation on a call with the

client earlier on it's we have become so ingrained that, When people talk about

losing weight, they look at the number because that is what they relate it to.

And I'm like, okay, I fully understand it.

Like I get it.

And they've been brought up and, things like BMI will tell them that

they're obese based on their weight and whatever else I'm like, that's not

taking everything into consideration.

So for me, again, for anybody who's ever been through the extensive

questionnaire, I have an equally extensive weekly check-in sheet that

there's I think there's maybe 65 points on 65 different data points that cover

everything from energy levels, ability to focus, your sleep, your mood.

Did you do your gratitude log?

Your.

Blood pressure, your heart rate variability and all these sort of

markers allow me to build a picture of what's going on throughout the week.

And then also if the scale doesn't move one week, I can go, okay.

You didn't lose any weight this week, but this marker has improved.

This is an actual health benefit that you're getting, or you're sleeping better

or your energy better, or you're stronger.

So from a, if we talk about a physical side of things, like I'll look at

photos, I'll look at weight and I'll look at metrics in terms of measurements.

And you will find that, they all don't move together, which fucks

people up because they're like if I'm losing weight, like why are

my measurements not coming down?

Or if I'm losing measurements, why is my weight not coming down?

But I think the biggest sort of teaching point in that is,

is looking up body composition.

Cause I've genuinely had clients before.

Like when I worked in the gym floor that.

I trained them for a year and their weight has literally stayed exactly the same

for the entire year, but obviously their body composition has totally changed.

So being able to detach themselves, being able to detach them from

that number is always a big hurdle.

But that's why I look at so many different data points because while it's cool,

losing weight or drop and centimeters in your measurements, like if we can

look at improvements in how your heart's functioning or your blood pressure, or,

your blood work, like the, it's way beyond just getting a six pack, like it's actual

longevity of life and health benefits.

Oh, wow.

I, so you actually get into blood work and things of that nature.

You may be the first coach.

I know that has actually went to that deep.

Yeah.

As far as having that with check-ins, I'm sure there's probably others, but

I've never had a conversation with them.

How much do you get beholden to, the fitness trackers and your woo

straps and all that kind of stuff?

Is that a good baseline measurement in your opinion?

I've done research on it a while back, but not on newer versions.

And I know others that are like.

, they live and breathe by what the numbers say on the fitness trackers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What's your perspective of again it's a bit of a double edged sword because

it's a grit tool because it can give us so many, so much information.

Generally they're gonna cover your steps or it's gonna be able to show you

how many calories you burnt, or, it's gonna be able to tell you your rest and

heart rate or your heart referability or whatever it is, which is all great data

to have, or your sleep, things like that.

Whereas, before.

It, you have to use other things like just, time in terms

of your output or whatever.

So it's a good tool in that way.

What I see as a pretty big problem with it is people will go and do a spin class

and be like, oh, I burnt 657 calories here and gonna go on eight, 10 donuts

because I've just, you're almost buying back the calories that you've just burnt.

And they live and breathe that part of it.

And that's again, it's probably just lack of education in terms of what's actually

going on one thing that I'm a big advocate for, and it, this is just a it's from my

own personal experience is taking a week off the wearable tech and actually have

an understand of how you actually fail.

Because I used to find that I would, would wake up in the morning

and I'd be like, I feel great.

And then I'd check my up and, or would tell me that, I'd

only had 43% sleep score.

I'm like, I feel shit.

Because the app is telling me that I feel shit.

So I do think that while the wearable tech is great, you need to sometimes just

check in with your shelf in terms of, and I do have that in the checkin sheet.

It's okay, what was your sleep in terms of minutes?

What was the efficiency in terms of what the app says,

but how did you actually feel?

Because there's often a big disconnect in terms of what the two are.

And I think, I do often recommend just take time off from Fitbit or

whip or whatever it is, recalibrate yourself and then come back to it.

So again, it depends on the person, but I think that they're great tool

if they're used in the proper way.

And you don't get too caught up in the details or the menu of it.

Oh, yeah, no,

I I think the gamification aspect of it.

Yeah.

If you've got that community is a good driver.

For me, right now me and my wife will sit there and we're on the move

streak and all that kind of stuff.

And it's Hey, I make fun of her.

You've only get, you got 10 calories to go before you cross and get

the three rings the circle across.

But it gives it a different type of aspect.

And again, it's that community, that community feel that's out there.

Do you do any work with competitors at all?

Bodybuilder strength, training CrossFiters any of that type

of stuff prepping for that?

No.

No.

I think the,

I wore my Arnold shirt for nothing today then.

Thank you.

the,

The reason that I don't, I used to coach a professional tennis player and

the level of detail that you need to go into in terms of what they need as an.

is so specific and why it's great knowledge to have, unless I'm

gonna coach professional tennis players for the rest of my life.

It's a lot of time to put into just that one specific thing.

In terms of like professional body builders, they help me, the guy

that I just mentioned in terms of the podcast that we just recorded.

Like , that's his thing.

And I think that there's a, there's definitely a lot of

wisdom in being able to outsource.

So if somebody came to me and they're like, I wanna do a body building

show, I'm like, I'm not the guy.

Like I can recommend I have two or three people I can recommend

I'm being able to outsource that.

I can't be a master of absolutely everything.

Things like that the specifics that you need to go into and the level

of work that needs to go into each individual would take away from

what I'm doing from everybody else.

Do you know what I mean?

Cause I would have to relearn everything about what they need for, if it's

bodybuilding, what they need, coming up to going into stage, or if it's CrossFit what

do they need in terms of like performance or, fuel in their bodies or whatever else.

No, I, no, I understand that's and now I, like I said, we

haven't talked before this.

That was actually a lot of my background.

I didn't compete actually.

It's still a goal.

If I can ever stop becoming the walking entry that I am right now is to do a,

is to do a physics show at some point.

But that's actually was my outta high school with weight lifting.

I'm 43 working out with people that did amateur competitive

body building and seeing the massive amount of foods that they

ate.

Yeah.

And honestly I lived and worked that lifestyle for a period of time and it, I

do believe it's what caused my injuries particularly with my knee as I got older.

Not that we were doing anything that I would think, even looking back on it

that was improper or incorrect, obviously it was just massive amounts of weight.

And I put massive amounts of weight on my body in a, over a period of time

that I just don't think my frame could.

I think that was part of it.

Cuz I've always prided myself on trying to maintain proper ed, form and

etiquette in the gym without doing stupid things that you see other people do or

teenagers come in the gym and grabbing weight that they shouldn't be, yeah.

Cause that's a, that's a big part of it.

So I've got that as a goal in there, but I, one of the things I don't, and I don't

know if you even track any of the stuff I do loosely track the body building.

We're seeing lots of deaths with steroids at the professional level and then it's

coming out more and more that, the actors, whether they'll admit it or not

to get ready for a role, like you said, in, in 12 months they've got assistance.

And I think that's setting up a potentially bad

mindset for, kids coming up.

They're seeing the, their action heroes, Not look like Bruce Willis

did when I was growing up, like a kind of a, just a normal dude.

Yeah.

But freaking the incredible Hulk.

And I just I'm worried about that setting up the wrong expectations

if people are not gonna be forthcoming in those discussions.

And I just don't know if some of the circles you talk around if

that's something you worry about for general public health and at all.

Yeah.

I've had many open conversations and, as.

As we spoke just before, like who I train and the people

that I work with has massively changed over the past, 18 months.

And the more that I move to coaching more meals and especially coaching

more meals based in America, the more the conversation comes around T RT and

things like that, which is obviously different than, performing enhancing

drugs and like going down that street.

And I'm happy to have open conversations about that because

I have the knowledge for it.

Anything beyond that I wouldn't be referring, like I wouldn't be

recommending doing, whatever they need to do to get onto the edge.

I do think that is definitely a big part of what's missing because, If

you think of, even we talk about the competitors at the Olympic, like Chris

stead, he's in incredible shape, but yep.

We all know how he got there.

Do you know what I mean?

But if I were me starting out my training career by eight years ago, if I look

at him and I'm like I can do that.

There's, I'd be able to do that.

There's no problem.

And I think, again, it just comes down to, because it's seen as, I don't know

if I assume it's the same over there, but because it's seen as a taboo subject,

people don't wanna have the conversation.

So if I decide, okay, I wanna get big and become a bodybuilder, I then have to go.

Okay.

This is what I need to take.

And this is what I need to do.

And it comes from just lack of education.

And I guess one of the biggest things that I've seen when I worked on the

zoom floor is people starting into that too early, like not reaching their true

natural potential before going down that street, like seeing it as a shortcut

and seeing it, the more that I take.

The bigger I will be when it's not necessarily like that.

And again, if we take it back to looking at blood work and looking at blood

panels and how your body responds and levels of things you'd be at and doing

it in a healthy way it can be done.

And I don't follow a lot of coaches and I don't really have many conversations

with many coaches, how many I will talk to who is obviously on the road

to become a professional body builder.

So I have that insight and my former coach Callum, like he, he

coaches professional athletes, like that's what he does.

So following his stuff and have an understand of his process and

educating the athletes in terms of what they're taking and how

long they should be taken up for.

And almost the way that he's moving things is it's about spreading the risk.

So obviously with all these things that you take, there, there

will be adverse side effects.

And what he looks at is instead of pushing things to maximum limits in

terms of max out, how much test you can take, he looks at, different like a

couple of different compounds and doing like a smaller dose of those things.

So we're looking at it from a health perspective, over a broad spectrum,

so that you're not like really putting that that much sort of pressure and

challenge on what's going on your liver or your heart or whatever it is.

No, I agree.

And having went back to been to as many shows I had even been to one.

I remember this years ago, a friend of mine was competing in

a regional and it was not drug tested, but you could clearly,

identify after you, you learn an eye.

To a degree and you sit there and you're going, Hey, we went across

the stage and we were like natural.

Nope Nope.

Yeah.

Natural be just because of the, the amount of muscle there.

And like I said, I'm, here in the us, it is absolutely taboo.

It's that UN it's

It's it reminds me growing up before it became WW WWF.

Nobody wanted admit that rustling was fake yeah.

You It's hold on a second guys.

This stuff's scripted out and all this kind of stuff.

Body building in and of itself.

And I, and again, like I said, transitioning to medium where everybody

is ripped out their minds in movies and television shows nowaday a, I am

a little concerned on the influence that has outside of someone, my age

going, Hey doc I need some T R T I can't, I'm not sleeping well, I'm, I'm,

I think it's, even to go down that route in terms of the conversation, like what

clinics and what you guys have available over there from that perspective, I

think is incredible because, you have professionals that can look at it and

prescribe and get you back to optimal.

And it's not about, push into those like super physiological ranges that

are just absolutely fucking ridiculous.

It's about how can you get back to function or optimal so that you can,

like you said, sleep better or have more energy or run about after the

kids or, still continue to train in or recover or whatever it is.

So I think that should be talked about more because.

I have no I'll talk about it in client calls and, couple of guys that are

running TRT, they are, will openly have the conversation because they almost wish

that they had someone to talk to about it whenever they went down the process.

But yeah, I think that, you know what, especially, know, if you're talking

about actors, what they have to put their bodies through rule the rule in

terms of how different they look like.

Sure.

That it's definitely something that's not spoken about.

And I think you're, again, it just comes down to the influence and the social

media and the, I guess the improper expectations that the people and

especially younger generation will have.

Yeah.

And

again, it's something that I've thought about for my own health

as I've gotten, hitting that mid forties, mark and I kid you not, man.

I've put a beating my, on myself over the years, an unmitigated

beating from just gym training.

And I'm at the point now where let's see blew out the knee twice, once was from

basketball, used to play basketball.

Then I had a carless chair that I can't explain what happened.

It just, I wake up one day and I'm falling down just by standing up.

So leg days can be interesting if, and when I can do them.

No squatting of course, no way high impact two AC three AC joint

decompression procedures from just all the pressing overhead.

Yeah.

And then just like

just constantly spraying something along that, something along that line.

That, again, I think it goes back to working out with

some of those guys that were.

Massive.

I'm talking over 300 pounds doing the body building thing

off season, over 300 pounds.

And man, I was right there with them at

Let me see at that time period, I was probably 180 5 and got up to

two 40 and got up to two 40 and I was actually like, I'm probably two 40 now,

but it's like the Oreo different three 40 . And that,

and part of that is some of the injury I've been going

through for three months now.

It's just absolutely stupid nonsense.

But some of the other benefits you mentioned is some of the mental, the

creativity, do you get a lot of responses where somebody's Hey man I missed my

workout today and now my whole day sucks.

I can't, I haven't been able to work at my job because that rush, that

endorphin thing is that, I'm sure that's some other tangible benefits.

Other people.

Yeah, for sure.

May not

think about when they're looking at this, if they're only look, you won't throw

the scale out and it's hold on a second.

Your whole performance went up across the

board, man.

Yeah.

And do you know what as I don't know whether it's come from the podcast and

people actually hear me speak about it or whether things are changing, but I

have literally had clients come to me and say, look, I need better mental clarity.

What can we do to get that?

Like I need to, especially with the industry, I work quite a lot

with information security and cyber security, so they need to be switched

on to what the fuck's going on.

Coming to me, I I need to be focusing better.

I need to function better.

Like I have this brain fog and I need to get rid of it.

It's funny having those conversations, cuz people are almost coming for what

the byproduct is that they don't usually.

And that obviously the, the physical side of it and the change that is

great, that comes alongside that.

But they're now coming to me with, I want all these things that, that people

don't know that they're gonna get.

So I don't know, like I said, I don't know whether it's people are just

changing or it's just because of it, the information that I've been put night.

I would sit there and say the one thing that when COVID

start, I, I was the gym rat man.

So back going back into my early twenties, I was that dude working out

with those body builder guys in the gym for three hours a night till I

finally started getting old enough.

I'm like, I gotta do some other things.

We gotta cut these workout.

We don't, I don't need to be in the gym for three hours a night.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I do I am not exaggerating when I say three hours a night because I

distinctly remember the conversation with the guys going, I can't spend that

much time in here anymore every night.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But when COVID started doing the gym build out at the house and

the one thing that I always get.

I've always said when you're working on a problem and you're stuck on

something, go do something else.

Yeah.

Go take a walk, stop trying to force yourself to be creative, stop trying

to force yourself to find a solution to problem, go do something else.

And I have found since I've built the home gen out I keep a notebook down

there because the most random thing that I'm not thinking about that

I was thinking about two days ago

that the, you it's

Oh, Hey dummy.

Why?

Where was, yeah.

Where was this today?

Where was this?

Two days ago.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But but you mentioned the cyber security professionals.

So talk about how the weh helped the movement got started.

What was the origin?

Cause I'm trying to think of when I came into it and honestly, I can't.

I can't remember exactly it's now it just feels like something that I do.

I don't remember how I got started, how I, who I was connected to

that initially started doing it.

I'm like, oh, Hey, hold on

a second.

yeah.

Yeah.

The if we take it back to obviously me, me of fully transition it online and then,

I'm I have no, I'm pretty open about this.

Like I started coaching Dave and to me, Dave was just Dave.

Like he contacted me through Facebook.

It was just as if anybody else had contacted me.

And then all of a sudden he's got fucking 150,000 followers on Twitter and he is

this like fucking cybersecurity genius.

I'm like, who are you really?

What the fuck's going on here.

And then from that, just him posting and his sort of success,

like the, my client base in America grew and grew through people who

are doing a similar sort of job.

And I think again, the more I got into it, the more sort of patterns that I

could see as to what people struggled with and they are all in the same industry.

So they all have similar struggles in some sort of way.

And I was like, we need to put this information out.

We need to find a way to do this.

And it was actually the Martin, the guy who I'm gonna say takes all my photos,

but the guy, the photographer that I use quite often first of all, he said,

you should start a YouTube channel.

I was like, no, cause I wasn't the, why not?

Didn't speak.

I didn't, no, I will.

I will.

It's coming.

It's coming.

But I didn't like the, I don't like speaking.

I didn't like speaking in front of camera.

And I didn't like, cause there's a mic here.

It would've freaked me out.

Do you know what I mean?

I could have a conversation with you all day long because

there's a mic and it's recorded.

And I would've been like, oh, I can't do that.

And then I was just literally having a conversation with Dave one day and

I was like, I thinking about starting a podcast, do you wanna do it with me?

And I was like, he's too busy.

Like you wanna do that?

He was, I gotta be fucking honored.

And I was like, holy shit, really?

So then just it just came from there and then we started the podcast.

I'm gonna say

September, August of that September eptember August last

year.

Yeah.

Okay.

September, August.

And it's basically just gone from strength to strength.

Obviously one thing I'm very grateful of is the presence that Dave has on Twitter

and social media that's helped us, grow.

And to me, one of the coolest things about it is, okay, yes, it's great.

Getting someone on a six pack or whatever it is like I'm in a position.

I, with the information that I'm at night and the audience and everything

that sort of comes along with it, that I can actually help an entire industry,

which is a unique position to be in.

So I, I can actually help them with, being more productive at work or, living

longer or handling their stress better or sleeping better or whatever it is.

And it's a very unique position to be in.

And to me it's something that came totally out of the blue for left Feland

and it's something I really love doing.

And it's actually quite good because.

If I'm speaking to someone on the initial consultation

call, they will have listened.

Generally they will have listened to some episode of the podcast.

So they already have a bit of an understanding this than me.

And you don't have to have that awkward, initial conversation.

And you mean like we did no, but not even even with that, because of the highest

tag goes Twitter, like I already have it.

I already know who you are.

Do you know what I mean?

Whereas before I click into it, and then you have this total stranger that

doesn't know who I am or has never they've maybe read things that I have.

Yes.

They've never read.

They've maybe read things that I have written, like when I used to

post a lot on Instagram or whatever.

But I think having heard someone's voice in how they actually are,

is entirely different than reading something that they have written.

And I think that absolutely it's helped me and my business massively in, in so

many ways that I couldn't ever imagine.

No, absolutely.

And so a little bit of bad background I've been in tech.

I did not know.

I didn't know, Dave, I've never talked to Dave outside of me sending him stupid.

Jifs on some of his posts on online.

That's the extent of it.

But I've been in, in tech and now ju just doing consulting and

obviously doing this podcast here, but you're not, you're not wrong.

Having been in the tech cyber security field for 20 plus years,

it's not known for its physical wellbeing, world, what's the opposite.

It's, Tito's a mountain, Cheeto's a mountain due by the case,

man.

But yeah, it's again, this is like it came about, it's already Egypt, but it's yeah.

You know, It's it was almost like a.

Dick measuring contest.

For what of a better phrase as to, I thought

you used that on another one

Who stayed up the latest or who was the yes.

The most drunk or, or whatever it is.

And I'm like that, this is the literally the opposite of what you should be doing.

And especially from a cognitive function and what they're actually managing and

what they're actually trying to achieve.

And I was like, we need to change this on a big scale.

And actually one of the, one of the cool things that I've noticed recently is at

the start, it was a lot of people who were coming to me and they were like,

I've spent, 20 years of my focusing on my career and I haven't really

focused on myself and I need to fix that because, okay, now I'm this super

successful person in the business of the company or whatever, how long am I

gonna live to be able to see this out?

There's been a shift in terms of like younger people coming and being like,

oh, I've heard you talk about this.

And I've heard you talk about that.

And I'm preempting that a little bit and I don't wanna have those health issues

and I don't wanna have those injuries.

So I want to get on the ball with things sooner rather than later,

which is, has been a cool shift in.

No, I, and that's, I'm trying to articulate.

That's awesome.

That's what I've seen.

Cause back when I was younger, my whole thing was I wanna break

the norm of what the traditional it person was thought of, yeah.

And I and until I blew out my knee, the first time, I

actually was pretty good at that.

And I, I still see people now.

As I've tried to, launch the podcast, as well as restructure the consulting

and get relaunched from that as a new entity for myself or restructuring

of the entity that I've got, I still have people come up to me now.

And Hey man, how do you, how what's your Workday look like?

And I said I'm usually up at five.

I immediately start to go to work.

I said, depending on when I get a big thing done is when I go.

But I'm like toast by the time he gets eight o'clock at

night, my wife makes fun of me.

She's like you shouldn, start your nights.

I said, I started my nights before at 10.

Yeah.

I said, I'm in, I'm ready to go lay down at eight o'clock and then I

hear people going, oh, I do both.

I get up at five and I stay up until midnight.

You're an idiot.

Yeah, that's not gonna last forever.

That's not gonna last long.

And quite frankly, I don't even know if I believe whatever the hell you're

talking about, to be honest with you.

But I have that happen probably about once a week where somebody says

some stupid stuff like that for me.

So that's the reason why I think I really, I like the movement because it's

putting spotlight on a, it' weird to say a specific industry of people that are

not Chi known for health and wellbeing.

And when you're talking about cyber security in, particularly in this

day and age, you're always on.

So happy.

I don't do any hands on stuff anymore.

Because that's, it's funny.

It's funny because uh, obviously with things start, do open up,

like I've been meeting people that I haven't seen in a while.

And one guy that I work with is a videographer and he was just this

is where the YouTube thing came about, but he was like talking about

VLO and what that should look like.

And he was like the last time that we shot a video, you're in the gym floor

and we did this thing and it was the majority females and it was all everybody

looking pretty and whatever else.

And then , he was like, what are you up to now?

And I was like, I work with majority hackers.

And he was like, what I was like, yeah.

And told him the whole story.

And he was like, and I was like, I don't know why, but it's it's far beyond the

thing that I like about it the most is what I can give back to these guys.

And girls is health and years on their life?

Yes.

Like it's not necessarily, you want the small waste and the big

bomber drop a dress size or some fucking superficial bullshit.

It's we can actually, help you live better for longer.

In terms of even not even talking about their career and their, how

they're able to function at work, like genuinely improve people's blood work.

Like I've had clients come to me and they'd be like, my doctor

actually couldn't believe the improvements in my blood work.

From the last time I did nine, he was like, he was asking me what I was doing.

He said, just fucking keep doing what you're doing.

And I'm like, that to me is cool because that's beyond physical change.

That's a, number one, something that people generally wouldn't look at, but

number two, something that will literally allow you to live longer for your family.

It's just a great P.

How hard

is it to, this is something I've thought about.

Luckily, my wife is she runs, she uses the gym and stuff like

that with some of the clients.

Do you, do

you get them to turn it into a family affair?

Cause I know change for one can rub off on the other one

or calls resistance in inside.

If not everybody's on the same page.

Yeah.

Again, it depends on the person too.

It depends on their dynamic, more than anything.

But generally I find that if the partner is supportive,

the journey is much smoother.

Let's say if they're not and they're like, I'm trying to have my.

To male and there, having fucking tips, it's difficult.

Whereas if they have a, if they have a bit of an understanding

of it and they're like, okay, I respect what you're trying to do.

And I understand it then it's much easier.

And some people, I'll get a message being like, oh, my wife wants

to know, do you coach females?

I was like, the majority of my career, I've coached females.

And then, you're coaching both of them, which is always an

interest in insight and dynamic.

But yeah it depends on the person, but I definitely have noticed over the years

that if the partner is on board with things, the whole process is much bigger.

Gotcha.

Do you find

that again, I don't, this is something I used to see in when

I was going to the gym, let's say like I did for 20, some odd years.

It seemed to me that the coaches that were working with other people They weren't

in my mind, you got a ramp up period.

You got that learning period where you're not gonna push somebody overly

hard, cuz you don't wanna get somebody.

So sore.

So exhausted.

So freaking tired.

It's oh my God, I don't ever want to do that ever freaking again.

Yeah.

But I would repeatedly see what I considered to be the exact opposite

of that where it's like, they weren't even pushing 'em at all.

And then they'd go take up like cap.

My thing was they were taking up the machines for freaking 30 minutes cause

they weren't really pushing the clients.

Yeah.

Is that, how can you gauge level of effort with some of that stuff to know that

somebody is being online that they're putting in the right amount of exertion.

Are you having them track.

Reps and sets time and you going in really deep into that type of stuff, or how do

you know they're exerting the correct

amount?

Yeah, so I'll, and this is stupid, cause

this is completely outta order and I should

probably, they just hit me in the head.

That's okay.

That's fine.

That's fine.

I know.

Don't worry.

I know how it goes.

Like we talk in circles.

It's fine.

Yeah.

the so yes, it answered your question.

The biggest challenge that I thought I would face whenever I move fully

online is how can I try and give every single aspect of me being their

studio side by side, being remote?

Like how can I give everything that I can if I'm studio there beside, as employer,

but doing it in a remote setting.

And it just comes down to, to, to collection of data and things like that.

So in terms of workouts, everybody has obviously they get delivered

their plan and their workout.

And we will look at, progression of, are you getting stronger?

Are you doing more reps?

What does that look like?

Are you improving in terms of your cardio time or whatever it is but

one big thing that I look at is.

Get them to video some of their sets.

So yes, in part I will do it from an exercise execution standpoint,

but the other side is I'm like, I know where that is in your workout.

If you're like fresh with your t-shirt all on and you're looking good.

I'm like, you haven't given me enough up until that point and I haven't, I

haven't actually disclosed that to any of them, but it gives me an insight

as to what they're actually doing.

And talk a lot about intensity when I'm on the group calls and things like that.

And actually one of the main reasons of me traveling next week over to the guys is

to show them what intensity in a workout should look like because I could program

the same workout for 10 people and they would each perform in a different way.

And I think that the intensity of the workout is something.

Is difficult to teach unless you're visually showing them.

And the way that I get around it is I talk about it a lot.

I also show my own training.

Not that they need to train at that capacity.

And then obviously there's the sort of community internal competitiveness

in everybody is to, they're putting in a chat like, oh, PB in this or PB.

And that, and it's good because it'll drive the other people.

They want to get onto it.

But there's also a lot of support that goes in the group really

fucking good job and they'll share their videos and whatever else.

So again, where the community aspect comes into it.

You ever have to kick anybody in the ass for not working out hard enough?

yeah.

Yeah, I have.

I have, do you know what I, I can.

I like people to think that they can come with any sort of problem.

But at the same time, I don't like to think that they

can get away with anything.

Yes.

I understand that everybody's human and they'll make mistakes and they'll

forget things and whatever else, but I'm not here to be a babysitter.

Like I'm not here to just baby you through the process.

If I don't think you're pulling your wet.

Literally I will, I'm happy to call people out because at the end of the

day, you're talking about the people on the gym floor that are they, and

I've seen this before in the gym floor.

It's almost that they see the less that they push them the longer that they

will coach them, if that makes sense.

Which I guess is a smart business model.

But for me, I'm quite open with people in the initial conversation.

And I was like, it's my job to educate you to the point that you longer

need to work with me, which yes is a fucking ridiculous business model.

But the biggest thing that I think's missing from the internet and the

fitness injury whole is in education as to, okay, 10 years down the line.

Can I still do the things that you're prescribing me to do now, or how

many different phases of things that we need to go through so that you'd

know everything that you need to know long beyond our coaching relat.

Debt

no, I just lost the train of thought.

The question I had, I should have really down.

Sometimes I write it.

I write that down in there.

All right.

If that comes back to me, I'll just shoot that to you.

Shoot it

later.

I'm gonna ask, I've got two questions.

So like I said, I've been in this kind of the fitness realm for a long time,

but I've never been able to get a a clear answer on one particular question.

Anyway.

How do you know the difference when your body really needs a break versus

your mind telling, versus that moment of weakness where your mind says ah,

I just don't feel like doing it today.

Cause I know that is something over the years that I've

struggled with going, okay.

Maybe I'm reaching a point of legitimately over training.

If I showed you some workout logs and then waking up going,

I can't do this today versus.

Hey, woo.

Go freaking put on your shoes, go get your wrist, rafts.

Let's freaking go.

How what's the best way to identify the difference of that?

So you're not injuring yourself.

I would say that.

If we think about actual overtraining for general population,

they're not gonna reach that.

You need to be at a certain level, you need to be able to train at a certain

level and you need to have put the literal reps in to actually be able

to take your body to that intensity, to the place of actually overtraining.

So 95 times out of a hundred, if someone thinks they're over

training, they probably not.

I'm not saying it's not a thing, and I'm not saying that people can't get

there, but you need to be seriously fucking put into your body through

hell to actually tick you to your point of overtraining my old workouts.

don't I don't fancy.

But I guess this is where it comes down to being in tune with your body.

And again, to take it back to what I the best thing that I have from

my own perspective for training and nutrition is an understand of my

body, what it needs when it needs it, what to strip back when I need

to, what to push whenever I need to.

And that has literally just come down to.

The past eight years of my training and understanding I'm

working with different coaches.

So it's always something that I want to give back to the

client, is that understanding.

So if I'm looking at their check in sheet and they're telling me that they're not

recovering, or they're not sleeping, or they're not hungry, or they're, they're

just not motivated to train or they're not progressing in terms of their workout.

And then I look at the numbers in terms of, okay, hits our vs down heart down

or rest heartbeats up, or, you're not actually sleeping, then it's okay, maybe

we need to actually, pull things back here for a week and try and go again.

Do we just take three or four days off and do deal with that way?

Or do we just pull it back that you do the same amount of work, but

you just do it at less capacity.

And it just comes down to data management, which it's funny because

this is how I worked before I worked with the people that I worked with.

And if I talk about data and analytics, they're like fucking eyes light up.

I fucking love data.

Like I'm tracking data all day long, so right.

It's just it's one thing that they actually just put back to me.

It's you.

The hackers and the information security, like they spent their life hacking

all these different things, but never actually understood hacking themselves.

And whenever you give them data, it's funny because I'll start with an amount

of, this is what your check-in sheet looks like, and this is what we do.

And then they come back, like, how did this into my check-in sheet?

And I pull the data and I now look at it on a monthly basis.

And I now look for trends and I'm like, this is what it's all about.

It's like, how can we take the information that we have find out what

the good days of the good weeks are, and then replicate them to improve on.

And it's just about having the data and information.

No.

Totally agree.

As long as you don't get an analysis by

paralysis or paralysis, exactly.

Analysis that I, but I think that's, I think that's a good, that's why

it's good to have a second set of.

Do you know what I mean?

That's why it's good to have someone else look at it because

you can look at it yourself and you can get too caught up in it.

Whereas I can look at it from my perspective and I'll pull up

your checking sheet and I can rationalize it a bit for you.

You're like, oh that makes sense.

That goes right back into why I'll make an argument for even a business

going, why you need a consultant for instance, you're a coach.

It's hold on.

I'm not beholden to your internal politics, your internal beliefs.

I'm here to give you an objective thing.

And if you think that my opinion has value because of previous

experience or results somewhere else, you're gonna fricking listen to me.

and if you don't too many times I probably don't wanna work with yet.

yeah.

What's the point of, and that's exactly it.

Yeah.

So

wrap up with, did that answer your question?

Did that answer your question?

Yeah.

Okay.

That's alright.

Cause you said you hadn't been able to get an answer

thought.

Oh, that was the one.

Yeah, because I, and I don't disagree.

I don't disagree with you saying that most people won't get there.

I would say I would follow up probably again, you can take me in my word

for it or say I'm full of crap.

No, I believe, I know.

I know legitimately I have done that, through training programs

before doing either repositions.

And really, arms, I can't lift my arms over my head.

I can barely close my hands to make a fist.

I have been there more times than I can count over the years.

Not recently.

I, it's probably been two, two and a half years since I've been

at that point because I just keep going in and out of this stupid.

I'm no kidding.

I'm hurting myself in my sleep is what's happening.

The reason my, my I've had sleep studies done.

Okay.

My watch, my apple watch will sit there and say in my sleep

that I have walked 200 steps.

50 steps, a hundred steps.

And when a sleep study, because I'm mentally subconscious of being hooked up

to all the wires, I'm not moving at all.

Okay.

So they're like, we can't find anything wrong and then I'm coming back and

I'm all twisted up like a pretzel and doing all kinds of stuff and waking up.

And both of my Le arms are numb.

So that's some weird nonsense that I'm going through.

That puts me into that orthopedics, either wet dream client or nightmare, depending

on . But depending a very good friend.

That's an orthopedic PA over the years.

Okay.

And they, it's bad when you walk into the doctor's office and the receptionist

goes, Hey, John, how you doing?

I've been here too many

times.

Yeah.

You've been there probably a few too many times of which I can sit there

and legitimately say some stuff was, and other things are mystery injuries.

If you could wrap it up with this, if there's something, again, you're.

You're in a highly competitive market space.

There's lots of people out there and there's lots of people coming

in with a lot of preconceptions that we've talked about, at Naum here.

If you could wave a magic wand and make something go away to make

your life better, when they come to you, what would that probably be

dad culture?

Because again, it depends, but the diet culture becomes almost like a cult.

So people who do keto will, they'll be like, it's the only way or

people who do intermittent fast.

And it's the only way.

And while I will bash these diets and I'll make fun of keto and

whatever else, it's the lack of education that comes with them.

So it's okay, wait you just want to eat protein and fat,

but why are you doing that?

What's the actual purpose of doing that.

And I think that, that culture as a whole is.

Really messing up people's relationship with food, like really messing

people's relationship with food.

And I agree.

That's where the biggest challenge comes that, people come and be like,

oh, but I can't eat carbs because, I saw my mom do this that 50 years ago.

And I'm like, fuck now, like where do we even begin with this one?

But it's.

The, yeah it's just that people believe that this is the way.

And the thing that I say about it is it's everybody who says this is

right and wrong because, keto might be the best thing for that one person.

And they have lost a hundred pounds and they feel great.

And everything that comes along with, see 'em in fast and see 'em if any debt,

but doesn't mean it's gonna work for me.

And that's, people will have a conversation and be like, oh

yeah, you wanna lose weight?

Okay.

I did ketos.

This is what you need to do.

And it's no, it doesn't really work like that.

It's understand what's going on.

What's going on with you and how you can build something out that will

allow you to have sustainable weight loss or muscle gain or whatever it is.

And I think if I could get rid of data culture, it would, it would save me a lot

of time but it would say if it genuinely, I think it is, it's one of the biggest

issues that people face, cuz they just are so lost in what to do because they

will read one article and they'll read the next one that tells 'em the opposite

and they'll read the next one that tells 'em something totally different.

Again, they.

What hi, can I process and how can I get this?

And the thing about it is all of them have some good points.

For myself sometimes I'll use fasting because, if I related it back to when

I was on the gym floor, if I had a heavy morning of clients and I was

working, say 6:00 AM the 1:00 PM.

If I didn't need in the morning, I was fine the whole way through.

But if I had my breakfast, at 5:00 AM, by nine o'clock, I was

starving and I was pissed off.

So I would've used intermittent Fasten.

I didn't run by telling everybody I was doing Indi MIT

Fasten and the same with, keto.

My first, generally my first two meals of the day will be high protein and high

fats because cognitively I feel better.

I don'm run by town people, I keto, but I've taken bits from each one to

build out something that's for me.

So I think if I could get rid of one thing, it would be diet culture.

Cause is shit.

Back in the days of me not looking like I ate a tub of Oreos I would get that

and I would see that people do the same thing and not make any progress at all.

They would sit there and think that, oh, I'm doing intermittent fasting.

I can legitimately eat anything I want in whatever window they set,

whether it was eight hours, four hours,

an hour, if you want to eat, you can still eat fucking 5,000 calories.

It doesn't take long for that stuff to, to, to add up or the ones.

I actually had that conversation recently.

I can't have any carbs because of.

Dude that doesn't, it doesn't work that way.

I thought you're eating a tub of butter in three packs of baking.

Give me a break, dude.

You just ate 4,000 calories.

Some,

some of the things that people say and they're like, even if you go down to,

I guess you guys have brother, like sliming word and weight Watchers and

stuff like that, they're like, yeah.

Oh no, I can eat a bowl of fruit, but I can't have it blended.

And I'm like, what the fuck?

Like I can't have a smoothie, but I can eat all of the fruits

that I would put in the smoothie.

Yep.

Separately or oh yeah.

I can eat unlimited pasta and I can eat unlimited potatoes, but I

can only eat, half of a Fredo bar.

And I'm like, , if you tell me I can eat unlimited pasta, C's accepted.

You're about to see some shit good on here.

I'm not gonna lose any wit I'm gonna eat a lot of pasta.

You know what I mean?

It's just the stupid rules that people live in day.

Oh, yeah.

And I did that.

I

just approve a point cuz I, I usually fall into the calories and calories out, if it

fits your macros type of thing, as long as I hit the the protein number, I personally

don't really give a crap how the other stuff typically splits out, per se.

Yeah.

That's just me.

I found out having done my yo-yoing through the years.

, that's what it works.

But to prove a point to somebody I was down I was down calories for the day

and I freaking ate two Hershey bars.

I wake up and I'm a pound and a half down the next day.

Yeah.

You can't do that every day.

It just it fit the bank account of numbers that I was allotted.

Yeah.

For that day.

So anyway, that's my own.

How I, yeah, I think, and again, you've worked that out for yourself.

Do you know what I mean?

And okay.

Yes.

Nine times outta 10 calories in versus calories.

I will work for some people, but the, that 10% of people that doesn't work

for, then they start to believe that.

There's something wrong with them.

And then they need to get down the rabbit hole of bad culture and whatever else.

And we actually did a podcast, not recently of when

calories in versus calories.

It doesn't work.

Because again, I didn't wanna misinformed people of this is the way to do it.

Just eat less than.

Your body expands.

And then they're like it doesn't work for me.

So I needed to give, I needed to give I guess a broad caveat to that as well.

, it's tough.

It's tough because I'm very I guess I have a, quite a strong opinion on a lot

of things in terms of the industry as a whole, but I also wanna contradict myself

in a lot of things because then people will start bringing which sky doesn't

fucking know what he's talking about.

Hey you talk long

enough on the internet.

At some point you're gonna you're gonna say something.

And I was like, hold on, three years ago.

yeah, three years ago, I read a post that you wrote on somebody else's

Facebook page and you said, and this is the opposite of I'm gonna be Eric.

Then if you have the time to, to go through research that and go back up.

Fair enough.

Oh, it's the internet.

They

have the time.

true.

True, man.

This is, this has been awesome.

Best place for people to reach out to you.

The website.

No, the website's shit if you wanna book, if you wanna book a

call with me the best place to

book a call

is the website.

Yes.

The best place to book call you.

See that and.

BC training the best place probably to find me now is

Twitter just at Ben canyoning 87.

It's a strange place that I find myself in, but even like Instagram

and stuff, like I don't really use as much anymore just because

of the people that I work with.

So get me on Twitter.

If you wanna book a call bc.training website and I'm gladly speak to you.

That's awesome.

And I will say just people part, just be part to fill out

a really extensive question.

It's good.

Friction.

No, and I agree until the, we ha hashtag we have health.

I do recommend if you're looking for a community, a nonjudgmental, just, whatever

fits what you're doing, post up there, use that hashtag follow that hashtag.

And to be honest with you, I really didn't screw around with Twitter

that much until I started doing that.

Now it's.

I'm on it all the time.

Thank you for that,

by the way.

You're welcome.

You're welcome.

No, again I don't think I had tweeted since 2014 and then Dave was

like, oh, you need go on Twitter.

I was like, really?

Do people still use that?

And I'm like, now I'm on it all the time.

Yeah, it's actually cool.

Cuz I mean it's a shit show in some ways, but it's cool.

School space.

I'm definitely, the, we hack health, hashtag people, some

people are doing really cool shit.

And even in the discord, like the discords growing and growing every single day,

every single week so it's cool to see the support that comes far beyond just me.

Do you know what I mean?

It's cool to see that.

Building community.

That's, you know what this is about having average, me

being able to reach out to you.

I'll be honest with you.

I wouldn't know who you were until this was, I don't know that our

paths would've ever would've crossed.

Maybe, probably, maybe

not.

I don't know, but now they have, and here we are, and we've recorded an R of

conversation that the world can listen to.

Exactly what great, what a great time.

And

then they ban me from Twitter.

I've never been allowed to record a podcast since

I revoked my license, man.

Appreciate it.

This has been awesome.

Yeah.