In this episode of The Beauty Equation Podcast, Dr. Christelle Oliver-Dussault, Dr. Harpreet Lotay, and Amanda Manholt unpack the mystery behind “resting angry face” and why our expressions don’t always match how we feel inside. They explore how changes in muscle activity, bone structure, and aging can make us appear tired or harsh, and how precise treatments like Botox and fillers can restore softness and approachability. Through relatable stories and professional insight, the hosts share how small aesthetic adjustments can enhance confidence, lift mood, and help your face reflect your true, relaxed self.

Disclaimer: The Beauty Equation is for informational purposes only and not medical advice. This podcast does not create a doctor–patient relationship. Always consult a qualified healthcare provider before making medical or aesthetic decisions. Information may change as the field evolves.

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About the Hosts:

Dr. Harpreet Lotay is a family physician specializing in aesthetic medicine. She is the founder of Sona MD in Kamloops, BC, and serves as Chief Medical Officer at Bios Wellness Clinics. Known for her artistic approach and comprehensive non-surgical treatments, Dr. Lotay combines medical expertise with an eye for natural results. She is also an educator, a national trainer and holds academic appointments where she shares her knowledge in clinical dermatology and aesthetics. You can get in touch with her on Instagram @hlotaymd

Dr. Christelle Oliver-Dussault is a family physician specializing in aesthetic medicine, women’s health, and psycho-education. She brings a holistic, whole-person perspective to her clinical work, blending science with a deep understanding of the mind-body connection.

She is also the founder of Reclaim The Pink Within, a movement that empowers women to rediscover themselves during life’s most transformative stages. In addition, she is passionate about medical education and mentors the next generation of family physicians through her work with the department of Family Medicine at the University of British Columbia.

You can connect with her on Instagram @drchristellemd

Amanda Manholt is a clinic manager, patient consultant, and co-host of The Beauty Equation Podcast. With over 30 years of experience in beauty, aesthetics, and leadership, she has guided patients and teams alike toward confidence, growth, and empowerment. Known for her ability to connect with people and simplify the often-overwhelming world of aesthetics, Amanda brings a warm, practical, and relatable perspective to every conversation. You can find her on Instagram @crowsfeetandconfidence.

Websites

https://sonamd.ca/

https://www.getyourpinkbackproject.com/

The RBF look is a global thing. So we talked

about looking tired being more of an upper face or mid face

thing, if you listen to that episode. But that

unapproachable look involves different aspects

of our face, both the upper face and the lower face. And

it's really interesting. And there's certain structural characteristics that

will make you look less approachable even when you're younger.

But I would say almost universally, as we age, we

look grumpier. Yeah. And I think for me, the two areas that stand

out are in between your brows. When the 11 start to creep up and

those muscles start to get stronger, there's a fullness and a heaviness

that sets in. And then the corners of your mouth, they gradually

get sadder and sadder and sadder and sadder. And the

combination of the downturn smile with the heaviness in between

the brows and those lines, even when you are feeling

fine. Welcome back to the beauty equation. I'm Dr.

Christel Oliver Dusseau. I'm Dr. Hartpriet

Lotte. And I'm Amanda Manholt.

So last time we spoke about the tired appearance

that a lot of us give, have, and doesn't always reflect how we feel

on the inside. Today we're going to talk about rbf.

My favorite is, has someone ever told you smile?

Yes. Yeah. So many times I get that walking down the street, and I've always

gotten that you would look so much prettier if you smiled.

Oh, my God. That's a whole other podcast. I think I'd want to throw up.

But, yeah. What is it that sometimes

when we have. We're concentrating, we're

focusing, we're not paying attention, we might look

angry or we might not look

approachable, and we give

off into our better selves. That's just not inviting. Why does that happen?

You could just literally be thinking about, what am I gonna cook for dinner?

Which always makes me cranky. But it's, you know, you're not trying

to look annoyed. Yeah. It's just

happening. Faces give it away, Right? Yep.

The RBF look is a global thing.

So we talked about looking tired being more of an

upper face or mid face thing, if you listen to episode. But

that unapproachable look involves different

aspects of our face, both the upper face and the

lower face. And it's really interesting. And there's certain

structural characteristics that will make you look less

approachable even when you're younger. But I would say

almost universally, as we age, we look grumpier.

Yeah. And I Think for me, the two areas that stand out

are in between your brows. When the 11 start to creep up and

those muscles start to get stronger, there's a fullness and a heaviness

that sets in. And then the corners of your mouth, they

gradually get sadder and sadder and sadder and sadder. And

the combination of the downturn smile with the heaviness in

between the brows and those lines, even when you

are feeling fine. And the

mouth itself, the lips itself, as they start to deflate,

kind of. And they kind of, kind of. You know, they were nice and plump,

and then they sort of get more. Yeah, they start to.

They curl in and they look pursed. Right. So that's kind of

how we age. We get. We get stronger muscles in the

frown area, so these depressor muscles get more influential

in the balance of our facial muscles, where things get pulled

down. We start to look more pinched in the mouth.

Our mandible or maxilla sort of involute or

get smaller, faster than the rest of our face. Cause we're shrinking. We shrink as

we age. Right. Grandma got shorter as she got older, but her skull

shrank, too, so we forget about that. But the mid face, the

maxilla, and around your mouth, that kind of sinks

into your face. So that's how we age. And that all contributes

to that grumpy look and that RBF look as well.

But it can happen when you're younger, too. It's not confined to

older people. Usually it's people

who have shorter chins who tend to look

a little bit less approachable, because the

muscle that supports your lower lip becomes a little bit more tense

and has more tone to it. And so you look a little bit

like you're pressing your lips together, like you're pursing your lips,

which is a subtle sign of annoyance, maybe.

So, yeah. So these. These little subtle

structural things have an impact. And I find

it so interesting when people come in to talk to you, Amanda.

I. I feel like grandmas come in a lot,

really wanting to look more approachable for their grandkids. We have

had several of those. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us about

some of those. I'm just remembering one in particular where she said,

you know, her granddaughter would crawl up into her lap and she would say, you

know, why are you mad? What's wrong? You know, and

she'd kind of, like. Do this to her, push her cheeks up.

She's like, you know, I'm not trying to look like I'm

20, but I don't want my grandkids to think that I'm

upset at them. Right, yeah. There's a lot of,

A lot of. Impact from muscles when you think about. It, when it

comes to that, that negative sort of unapproachable

look of angry. You know, the cartoon we have of

witches. So they have a. Like their chin is

curled all the way up. For those who are watching on YouTube, I'm touching my

face. Yes. The nose is curled under

and then obviously the skin is aged, there's spots, there's,

you know, it's just every layer is off putting

and we get a lesser degree of that. But the

chin up curling. Is that that other muscle you talked about, you know, the frown

muscles getting stronger? Your mentalis gets really stronger and that curls

it up your nose muscle. Like, as your bones shrink and your

cartilage softens and the muscle is still strong, the nose will

appear kind of more elongated and curled down. And actually use Botox for that as

well too. So just again, tying back to a few episodes when I was talking

about that puppet game we can play with Botox, Botox, those subtle

changes can just relax those muscles that are

stronger, like causing curling up of the chin and pulling down

at the corners of the mouth and pulling down at the eyes and pulling down

at the nose. And there's another muscle that helps with the smile

that there's aureus that actually gets weaker as you get older, so

it softens. So by weakening the ones that are

too strong, you allow the weaker ones to start kicking in.

And it can feel really funny and odd when it kicks in, but

then. You slowly start to look

a little. Bit more approachable, a little less angry.

A little less like. Yeah, absolutely. So

it's another area, just like the eyes, where it's. It's

impacted from. From various aspects, both muscles, both

skin. And like that witchy look you were talking about. That curve

is because the mandible, the area around your

mouth starts to get smaller and sink in. So it sort of contributes to

that for sure. And Botox can be

impactful, especially in younger people who

don't look quite approachable, because you can relax

the mentalis. In fact, using

Botox in and of itself, I believe there was a study done on

Botox that looked at younger people in their 20s and

sort of assessed their approachability index. I think they sort of

looked at attractive overall. And these are young

women who are very beautiful at baseline,

but using Botox increased sort of the

openness of their eyes and just made them

look more approachable. And, you know, you

Think about back in the days when they used belladonna to give that doe

eyed sort of look that's attractive. The

bigger eye, the, you know, more.

I don't have my glasses on or my contacts in. Yes,

that, that sort of adoring look. Botox doesn't

necessarily do that to your pupils, but that is we, we

find it attractive to have an open look. And Botox can

change the shape of the eyebrow and the eye area

itself to just look a little bit better. And it's a very, very

subtle effect. And I notice when my Botox is

wearing off sometimes I'm really not really sure why I don't

or look as approachable. It's very subtle. It's not like you're

seeing my frown lines or anything, but it's that sort

of lack of openness that Botox

that will help treat. So then, then I'm like, oh yeah,

it's my Botox, it's been four months. So. And then when I get it done,

I'm like, oh, I feel more approachable. So

is it just me that notices that when Botox

wears off or. No, I'm the same. It's in the morning. Like when I wake

up in the morning and I wash my face, I just feel a heaviness

in my brows. And again, I just feel like I

look a mix of tired and angry and it just makes me feel

off. And when it kicks back in, it actually impacts my mood. I

start to feel a bit more energized and happier. One of the

places I can tell right away is in my lower face when it starts

to wear off because the texture of my skin changes, I start to get

sort of that is that sort of orange peel kind of

texture to the skin. So

I noticed that. And I think that's because my mouth looks more pursed

and I notice my eyes look more closed. Right.

Because. Yeah, totally. Because this muscle, you know, all these depressors are starting to

kind of work again. I think another

way to talk about sort of that angry.

It's maybe not angry, but sometimes there's like a harshness.

Yes. To someone's appearance where

if you didn't know them and you just looked at a picture of them

at rest, which is how we really all look. Like what? Like I said, when

we're standing in a lineup somewhere and we're not thinking to grin

at everybody that they. There's like an edge.

Right. Hardness. Hardness. And, and I

don't know if you could even say in some cases it's almost like

a Masculinity, Would you?

Yeah, it could be. I mean, I think we associate hardness with

masculinity. Right, right. Generally in society,

I think that's that mentalis. Right. So your chin starts

to have more tone. And what that chin muscle does is it presses

your lower lip up against your upper lip and it gives you this sort of

tense look. So we start to see this as

people get a little bit older. So in their 30s, if they started off

with a shorter chin, but then in their 40s and 50s, depending on

their aging trajectory and their genetics, they'll feel

like they just look a little bit less approachable. And some of that can be

from the lower face. So, yes, you can use Botox to relax that

mentalis muscle. But if their chin is

shortened, which happens as we get older, our

facial balance, our proportions change and our chin becomes

shorter relative to our mid face and our forehead, then we can

actually use filler to address that, to

lengthen the chin. And when we do use fillers, it actually will

relax the muscle too. And that has to

do with the physiology of how muscles function. So when we

put the muscle at the proper length, it makes the muscle

more relaxed and it allows the lower lip to relax

a little bit. So that contributes to it. To

Christelle's point, she was saying that the resource or the smile muscle

becomes less strong while the depressor becomes

more strong because again, the chin shortens.

So we can treat that with Botox as well. And

when we use filler, we can use it to actually also

tamp down the activity of that muscle too. So, you know,

used expertly, filler can be very helpful in that area.

And we can also use filler to prop up the quilt corners of the

lips. And then, you know, we can

use filler in the lips themselves. Right, Christel?

Because those shrink too. They do. And that's one of the areas

that I think I love treating the most, particularly

as you get older, because you're not going for that

big Hollywood lip or Russian lip. You're really replenishing

that lost volume and it gives hydration and

vitality back. And again, you're not just doing the

lip, you're looking at the entire area around. And like, things like

skin boosters can be really impactful

in that area and just again, balancing

what's been lost. And it will make you a lot more approachable

if your lips aren't as kind of curled in,

pursed looking. Yeah. And I would,

you know, Amanda, you can speak to this. We get a lot

of 20 year olds coming in, asking for lip filler.

And when we get older ones, what do they say to you? God,

no. They don't think it's an option

for them. They really, really don't. And it's funny because

they. I don't know. Like, they. Some people, they just don't see it.

Or they'll say, well, I've always had small lips, but it's not about making the

lips big. It's about making them not look like they've been sucking on a lemon.

Sorry. It's that kind of displeasure. Yes.

And, you know, I think people in their 50s

and 40s are scared of lip

filler. Totally. Right. They've seen

visible lip filler. And I always say, if you can see that

someone's had filler done that, it's probably not done well,

it. You shouldn't be able to see it if it's anatomical. But,

you know, we all notice the people whose lip anatomy is

altered or it's disproportional to their face. But

I think in one of the episodes, Amanda, you said, you know, behind the one

or two women who. You're like, oh, God, no, duck lips, there's a

hundred who've had their lips done. But you wouldn't be able to tell. Right?

Yeah. My. My favorite is the. And we've had this comment multiple

times. I'm sure I mentioned it in a previous episode, but when they.

Women come in and they're there for their Botox appointment or they're going to

get a bit of. A little bit of filler or something, and they. They laugh

because their husband has said something like, I'm so glad you're not

like one of those. You know, you're not one of those women because, you know,

you don't do those things. You just. You just age naturally. You're just a

natural beauty, and you're just accepting it with grace. And they're like,

right, it's all about the

skill and, you know, knowing

what's gonna be the most impactful thing to address

on that phase. Who. Who. What age would you say is the

oldest that we've done lips on?

Oh,'70s. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And. And

you would not be able to tell, but it's so impactful

in turning back the clock for those people and making them

look more approachable, for sure. So

if you are in your 50s, 60s, or 70s, I would

encourage you to consider, you know, consider

lip filler and don't think it's off the table for you.

It's about making sure that the Volume in your lips matches the

rest of your face. And you know, your lips should be in the same

decade as your face. Right. It should fit. And

that's the most important part. Yeah.

And I think you do such a nice job when you address, to your point,

the oral connoisseur. The corner here that wants to sort of

do this, and it's not to make them look like the Joker, it just means

at rest, it doesn't look. Yeah. And that's an area

too, the marionette lines

that are tricky to treat and people want to erase

the contour completely. And you cannot erase

the contour of the marionette line. So that would

be the line from the corner of your lips down to your

jawline here. Your jawline, yes. So that. That's. We call that the

marionette. You cannot erase that completely if

you don't have volume in your cheek. And if your

nasolabial folds are present like

that, if they're deep, because then your lower face is not going to match your

mid face, and that's going to look off. So at every step, things have

got to match. So sometimes we'll just sort of support the

corners of the lips so that overall your look is very natural.

You can have a little bit of lip filler, but we're

not making everything flat. No, exactly. It's about

restoring balance and making sure that we're

addressing every layer and every angle of

your face so that there's harmony and. And the treatments

that we provide. And oftentimes it will require multiple steps

because if we're too aggressive, then that filler's not going to stay in your lip

and then you will end up. Looking like a duck. Yeah. So taking

our time and doing it one step at a time. And the

bonus when you look more approachable is you

feel much more confident. And how many times

have we seen Amanda, where people come back and they just have a different aura

around them? Yeah.

It's all about confidence. Right. You know, and it's

so lovely to see people come in

and they just have a different energy. You know,

oftentimes I think when people come in, there's a bit of a hesitation.

We do seem to get a lot of first timers,

and in every decade, and

I think there's this sort of worry that there are.

Is this. You know, am I going to fit in here? Is this for me,

Are these people going to be judging me? That kind of thing. And

it's nice to see that sort of kind of unwrap itself a

little bit as they Start to feel safe. And then as they start to

see the one thing that bugs them the most improve. You know,

we don't use words like erase. Like, we're not going to get rid of,

you know, things when we're talking about brown spots or lines. It's. We're going

to. We're going to improve. We're going to soften, because, again, it should

still look like you, Right? Yeah, absolutely. And the impact

that it can have on people's lives when you feel

you look more approachable is you will make more social connections.

Right. If you're standing in the line and people talk

to you, you feel more confident going up to people.

And generally, it can improve levels of

connection. And that's really what I love about the work that

we do, is that sort of impact. Yeah. Cause that's

really what it's all about at the end of the day is, you know,

human connection. You know, if we're gonna wax

philosophical here, I could do it for hours. But,

yeah, I think that's. That's one of the things that makes what

we do so wonderful. Yeah.

So don't worry if you feel like you look a little cranky.

We have some tools in our toolbox for you. And,

you know, we've talked a lot about how muscles

do have a dramatic impact on that sort of

impression of looking angry or annoyed or

unapproachable. And really, neuromodulators like Botox and

Dysport, you know, they're not the most

expensive thing we do by any stretch of the imagination. And as

you always like to say, and I parrot you all the time,

is it doesn't last forever. It's not

permanent. So, you know, if you stick your toe in and try

something and you don't like the results, it goes away.

Now, the reality is, is that that doesn't usually happen. People are like, oh, my

God, this is awesome. And then you just have to come. And see us a

few times. People love it. You use the

word gateway drug. It's so true. Um,

it's pretty impactful. So. And. And very, very safe. It's

been around for decades, over 30 years.

Very, very well studied. So despite all the stuff you might see

on social media that suggests otherwise, it's extremely safe.

So as a physician, I feel very confident injecting it and have no

concerns. And one of the best ways to

dip your toe into the aesthetic world of injectables in a

safe way. Way. Absolutely. So look

cranky no more, my friends. Yes, yes. Your voice tells a

story. So if you've had these treatments and have noticed a huge impact,

share your journey with us either through our email

or on our social media page. If you're curious about changing

how you might be presenting yourself to others, reach

out to us or your local clinic, wherever you live in the world.

And again, as every time, if you have any questions,

let us know. Yes, until next time. Bye for

now.