Join us for a lively quiz competition as Fredrik goes head-to-head with returning guest Mark while Michelle tests their pseudoarchaeology and alternative history knowledge. The stakes are high, with both participants eager to prove their expertise on topics like ancient aliens, Viking burial practices, and the mythical Loch Ness monster. Throughout the episode, the trio dives into the absurdities of mainstream conspiracies and historical misconceptions while maintaining a relaxed and humorous atmosphere. Expect plenty of laughs as they explore questions that challenge their understanding of history, including whether the Vikings had spaceships or if the Earth is flat. With a mix of trivia and engaging commentary, this episode promises to be entertaining and enlightening, revealing the often ridiculous nature of pseudo-historical claims.
Links to Michelle:
https://www.youtube.com/@authormichellefranklin
https://patreon.com/newshortstories
Links to Mark:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiJCpRC9BvG-xIlYImiNN0g
https://archaeosouptowers.wordpress.com/
Credits:
Written, hosted, and edited by: Fredrik Trusohamn
Producer: Ashleigh Airey
Part of the Archaeological Podcast Network
Become a supporter! Sign up for Patreon or membership here: https://diggingupancientaliens.com/support
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You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
Frederick:Welcome to Digging Up Ancient Aliens.
Frederick:This is the podcast where we examine alternative history and ancient alien narratives in popular media.
Frederick:To do these ideas hold water to an archaeologist or are there better explanations out there?
Frederick:We are now on episode 79 and I am Frederick, your guide into the world of pseudoarchaeology.
Frederick:And this time it will be a competition.
Frederick: n pseudoarchaeology dating to: Frederick:So what happened last year?
Frederick:More or less.
Frederick:It's hosted by Michel Franklin from Lectures and Legends.
Frederick:Both of these have been guests on this podcast previously.
Frederick:So this will be well interesting episode and see well who walks out a victory.
Frederick:And you can participate by just pausing after the questions and see if you get the correct answer.
Frederick:Let me know how many well right answers you got on quiz.
Frederick:And I want to thank all of those of you who are supporting the show.
Frederick:You're really helping out producing this content and I'm humbled and grateful for your support.
Frederick:And if you want to help out, I will tell you how to do that and get some bonus stuff at the end of the episode.
Frederick:Remember that you find well often sources, resources and reading suggestions on the website diggingupancientaliens.com but there you won't find much sources but some hopefully there you can also find contact info if you have any questions or notice any mistakes in any of the episodes you are listening to.
Frederick:And if you like the podcast but don't want to donate any money, that's alright.
Frederick:But I would really appreciate if you left one of those fancy five star reviews or thumbs up or whatever they use on the well podcast player you're listening to.
Frederick:Now that we have finished our preparations, let's dig into the episode.
Mark:So I want to welcome two returning guests to this show.
Mark:We have again Michelle and Mark from Archusoop.
Mark:So what we will do today is watch a 2 1/2 hour ancient alien special on the British Isles.
Michelle:We did that already.
Michelle:I think Mark and I had to be professionally resuscitated after.
Michelle:After that.
Mark:Mark, you got this.
Mark:A plank.
Michelle:It's still one of the best episodes I think that you've ever done because you can visibly see our brains melting out through our eyes.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Unnamed Guest:I had liquid on the back of my neck.
Unnamed Guest:I was like what's that?
Unnamed Guest:And then I real.
Unnamed Guest:It was just, you know, raw intelligence just leaving my body.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, I had to have a shower.
Mark:No, I won't Surprise you with that.
Mark:I will actually hand things over to Michelle for this special episode.
Michelle:This is A Year in Archaeology.
Michelle:Frederick asked me to make a quiz based on all of the things that we've covered over the Year in Archaeology and history.
Michelle:And neither Mark nor Frederick have seen these questions, so they have asked me to make this so they can compete to see which one of them dies first.
Unnamed Guest:What?
Unnamed Guest:What?
Unnamed Guest:I've only just learned it's a competition.
Unnamed Guest:Now death is on the line.
Michelle:Well, if it's a competition, there better be some stakes.
Michelle:Otherwise there's no point.
Michelle:I don't even know if there's a reward for winning.
Michelle:I think the.
Michelle:The reward is not dying dumb.
Michelle:The reward is knowledge.
Michelle:That's about it.
Michelle:So, Mark, do you have your scoreboard ready?
Unnamed Guest:Yes.
Mark:Yeah, Mark.
Michelle:So if you will keep tally.
Michelle:Although honestly, I don't think there's even a reason to keep tally.
Michelle:But Frederick desperately wants to win, which I think both of you are going to win anyway, because these are the.
Michelle: grams, each of you throughout: Michelle:So once we'll start off with the first question.
Mark:I mean, the loser, I mean, just shows that they have not, you know, watched Ancient Aliens and other pseudo programming.
Michelle:As much that could be, you know, if you win, that could be a reward not to watch Ancient Aliens for one week.
Unnamed Guest:Wow.
Michelle:Give your brain a break.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, you just emerge from the office and your partner's like, is it not happening?
Unnamed Guest:Are you.
Unnamed Guest:Are you okay?
Unnamed Guest:It's the Internet down.
Unnamed Guest:Okay, cool.
Unnamed Guest:Yep.
Unnamed Guest:So good to go.
Michelle:Question 1.
Michelle:How did the Vikings actually bury their dead?
Unnamed Guest:I'm going to say it depends when and where you're talking about.
Michelle:Okay, good, continue.
Unnamed Guest:In some places, we're talking about cremation.
Unnamed Guest:In other places we're talking about disarticulated burial and storage of bones, in fact.
Unnamed Guest:And in other cases, we are talking about complete burials.
Unnamed Guest:But I suppose it's a matter of definition.
Unnamed Guest:I mean, for example, there may be a local tradition near to you, Frederick, that I'm not aware of.
Mark:Yeah, we have the burial ships and the mounds and the stone ships also.
Mark:Don't forget those.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, no, absolutely.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:And actually, those are beautiful, aren't they?
Unnamed Guest:The little ships laid out in almost like ellipsis of.
Mark:I mean, if you walk in some fields, especially on Gotland, you have whole fields of these little boats just laying around, scattered in the landscape.
Michelle:Is there no fire in these burials?
Unnamed Guest:Ah, well, yeah, obviously.
Michelle:Obviously in the cremations you have to.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, I mean, Well, I mean, obviously we all know that if you're really important, then you're put on a boat, pushed out to sea and then set alight.
Mark:Yes, according to one saga.
Unnamed Guest:Yes, yes.
Mark:But they didn't actually put it on fire in that saga.
Mark:They just pushed it out to sea.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unnamed Guest:That's why Outlander is the superior Viking movie.
Michelle:Yeah, yeah.
Michelle:The whole.
Michelle:I mean, we can't say that it didn't happen, but we do.
Michelle:There's no evidence of people having their ship set on fire and set out to sea.
Michelle:There's just no evidence for it whatsoever.
Michelle:Okay.
Michelle:See, I told you you would do fine with all of these because these are subjects that you've covered, even some of them recently.
Michelle:Question 2.
Michelle:What is the archaeological evidence for the loch ness monster?
Michelle:0oh, Mark has a different answer.
Unnamed Guest:No, I'm just gonna say that would be paleontology.
Michelle:Plus, he's not a dinosaur.
Unnamed Guest:No.
Unnamed Guest:Is it?
Unnamed Guest:Are they not?
Unnamed Guest:I thought they were.
Unnamed Guest:Thought they were thought to be.
Unnamed Guest:I forgot what the.
Unnamed Guest:Which one it is now, why there's not a dinosaur.
Unnamed Guest:Is it because it's thought to be a prehistoric creature of the same age of dinosaurs?
Unnamed Guest:Which is a paleontology, paleontological thing, isn't it?
Unnamed Guest:That's not exclusively dinosaur, is it?
Unnamed Guest:I don't know.
Michelle:So.
Michelle:But why do people think that Nessie is real?
Michelle:Or why do people think that Nessie was a dinosaur?
Michelle:Is their cultural memory of a dinosaur?
Michelle:It is absolutely impossible, by the way, because Loch Ness, even though it's one of the deepest lakes, it was covered over in ice until we were talking about the.
Michelle:The history of Earth until very recently.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:So why do people think that Nessie is a dinosaur?
Mark:That's a good question.
Mark:But it's from the surgeons.
Mark:I think it's the surgeon's photos.
Mark:But it has this long neck like a swan.
Mark:So, I mean, could be some sort of swan monster.
Michelle:Nessie just goes off.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:And then along comes the UK monarch, because they have unique rights to eat it.
Unnamed Guest:It's made.
Unnamed Guest:It is a spawn.
Michelle:That's right.
Unnamed Guest:I say that's mine.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:You know who made up.
Michelle:Made up most of the quote unquote evidence for Nessie?
Unnamed Guest:No.
Unnamed Guest:Interesting.
Mark:I don't have his name.
Mark:I think he's a surgeon, though.
Mark:But other than that, it's.
Michelle:Yeah, it was.
Michelle:It was one person in particular who essentially fabricated most of the quote unquote evidence.
Michelle:And even there was a great race to.
Michelle:This was really all.
Michelle:It was a publicity stunt.
Michelle:And that was it.
Michelle:And so ever since then, people have said, oh, I can see Nessie, or Nessie is there.
Michelle:People use it as a great way to get people to Loch Ness, which is fine.
Michelle:I mean, it's really no different than having King Arthur at In Tagil, to be quite honest with you.
Michelle:But it was a publicity stunt and people just used this as a way to now get people to.
Michelle:To visit the area.
Michelle:All right, so question three.
Michelle:Was Rapa Nui established by aliens?
Unnamed Guest:Yes, of course.
Mark:No, no, no.
Mark:Atlanteans, I guess.
Mark:Atlanteans.
Michelle:Oh, yeah, sorry.
Michelle:That's the lost city of Atlantis.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Michelle:But why do people.
Michelle:What is.
Michelle:What is the whole.
Michelle:Frederick did a whole program on this.
Michelle:But what is the whole difficulty that people have with the return of Moai and Rapa Nui?
Mark:Well, it mostly boils down to this idea.
Mark:I mean, the alien part is kind of new, but people look at structure on Rapanui and narratives from the local population, and some interpret it as a wide set of people came there and brought culture with them.
Mark:And Thor Heyeral, the Norwegian raft enthusiast, went there trying to find this lost civilization that he thought originated from South America and before that in Europe.
Mark:But they got kicked out by the brown population in South America, went to Rapanui where they were killed off by the local population or by population immigrating from Polynesia.
Mark:But a lot of those idea comes from there.
Mark:And then people are somehow befuddled by how you can move stones.
Unnamed Guest:Well, there was a story.
Unnamed Guest:There's a story.
Unnamed Guest:Isn't there a tradition that the stones wall into place and that may well be literally that they were guided.
Unnamed Guest:You can sort of rock.
Unnamed Guest:And there's been similar experiments done with some of the sarsen stones, I believe at Stonehenge as well.
Unnamed Guest:You can sort of meander them.
Mark:There's three archaeologists that actually tested walking moi.
Mark:So they made a.
Mark:Almost full replica, we're talking 10 tons plus.
Mark:And then they made the bottom a bit roundish and then they took a couple of people and then you could just got along.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Mark:And then you just wiggle it back and forth and it kind of moved.
Michelle:You see those memes of like the statues having toes.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:On the.
Michelle:On the other end of the world, like the head here.
Michelle:The toes are here.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:Although was our Norwegian man, was he disgusted when he got to Rapa Nui and it wasn't Rafta Nui and he was like, ah, oh man, I thought it was rafts.
Unnamed Guest:And then.
Michelle:No, because he spoke Norwegian, Mark.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, get it.
Unnamed Guest:Okay, never mind.
Mark:They flotin away.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah, hey, hey, I understand that.
Unnamed Guest:That's fine.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, so maybe, yeah, maybe he misheard, you know, the floaty aspect.
Unnamed Guest:And I'm going to back off from that.
Michelle:Here's a question just for you, Mark.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Michelle:Who made all the crystal skulls?
Unnamed Guest:I know that they, they sort of turned up in the mid 20th century.
Unnamed Guest:Seemingly, seemingly made by modern people basically out of using, you know, techniques that are in fact, you know, not appropriate.
Unnamed Guest:I don't know the full history of it.
Unnamed Guest:I do remember being very disappointed when they turned up in, in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
Mark:The movie we should not lose.
Michelle:We don't remember that movie, Mark.
Michelle:We don't remember.
Unnamed Guest:But you've got to, you've got to for the canon.
Unnamed Guest:That's the thing.
Michelle:I don't remember.
Michelle:Indy in the fridge.
Michelle:I don't remember.
Michelle:I don't remember the aliens talking at the end.
Michelle:I don't remember.
Mark:No, no, but the crystal skulls originate in at least the most famous.
Mark:The Michael had your skull come from?
Mark:Crystal juler dealer from Germany.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Mark:Oh, okay, right, I forgot.
Mark:But he bought it there.
Mark:He bought it from an auction and then he tried to tell this story a while later that he found it in, was it Belize or something like that.
Mark:And then his daughter has embellished on the legends ever since.
Michelle:And I mean his daughter thought that the skulls actually they could tell the future and that they talked to her.
Michelle:And I just want to know how she, how she divided, how she thought that the skull like did, did she put her hand in and they went.
Michelle:Or did she like shine the back, the back of the skull and looked in it?
Michelle:I just want to know what, what, what?
Michelle:How they actually spoke to her and told her the things.
Mark:I think it's telepathically and if you want to have this power yourself, you can actually buy a set of 12 crystal skulls on Etsy.
Mark:Nowadays you can have a complete set with a little mat you can place.
Unnamed Guest:It on straight there, straight to Etsy.
Unnamed Guest:See this?
Unnamed Guest:I have a sickness, okay?
Unnamed Guest:I really do.
Unnamed Guest:Because all I've got going around in my head is, believe me guys, it's the real thing.
Unnamed Guest:It's just like, for God's sake, mob, what's wrong with you?
Unnamed Guest:What's wrong with you?
Michelle:We don't even have to say anything.
Michelle:We just watch Mark go in circles going.
Mark:And then.
Unnamed Guest:Oh no, I'm a self trolling pun maniac.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:Yep.
Unnamed Guest:Ugh, terrible.
Michelle:As long as you know I've been told.
Michelle:All right, next question.
Michelle:Just for you Frederick, the Kensington Runestones.
Michelle:Evidence of vikings in the U.S.
Michelle:no.
Mark:It'S evidence of a Norwegian with too much time on his hand.
Mark:No, sorry, a Swede.
Mark:Yeah, Norwegian companion, too.
Michelle:But this one is not the only one.
Michelle:So what other great frauds are there in the US and why.
Michelle:Why specifically great frauds were these runestones actually made?
Unnamed Guest: Obviously, there's the: Unnamed Guest:No, that's not.
Unnamed Guest:That's not funny.
Unnamed Guest:That's not funny right now.
Mark:Well, when it comes to runestones, there's two of them, I think one is in Oklahoma and who want to go there.
Mark: f the immigrants in the early: Mark:So these rune hoaxes are in reality, a more interesting history from a modern perspective.
Mark:But it's also part of this idea that Americans, the white part of the population, want to feel that this is their land, it's them first.
Mark:So you kind of invent ways to kind of, oh, but you Europeans were here a lot earlier.
Mark:So we don't steal land from the native, we just reclaiming it as if.
Michelle:The Vikings were there before the natives.
Mark:No, on the Kensington Runestone, they're apparently killed by the natives.
Mark:But, I mean, it ties them deeper to the country.
Mark:Then instead of a couple of hundreds of years, we're talking thousands of years of history there that they can relate to and claim heritage from.
Mark: dentity movement in the early: Mark:Scandinavian identity.
Mark:They still spoke their language.
Mark:They didn't integrate properly.
Mark:So they want to, you know, create their own celebration.
Mark:They got the yellows that they celebrate Columbus and not Eric the Red or anything like that instead, because, well, Columbus, America.
Mark:Yeah.
Mark:Leif Erikson.
Mark:But Leif Erikson, according to the sagas, discover it, you know, much earlier than Columbus.
Mark:So there was this idea that we should celebrate Columbus.
Mark:And that's maybe why the Kensington Runestone was created, because it was found close to the world fair that was taking place where they celebrated Columbus.
Mark:And they were a bit upset that the Norwegian and Scandinavian Swedish people didn't get their representation there.
Mark:And according to the Norwegian that seems to have been participating in the hoax, at least according to his children who talked with historians in the 70s, they said about that they wanted to, you know, show off those stuffed academics.
Unnamed Guest:But.
Unnamed Guest:And it.
Unnamed Guest:I can't really decide how I feel about it, because in that sense, I wonder if these hoaxes were designed to be taken seriously in a sort of a later sort of states wide national story or if it was just someone trying to set up folktales.
Unnamed Guest:I mean you could, you can ask similar questions of for example the origins of Mormonism, for example.
Unnamed Guest:What sort of impact was actually intended in those early stories of discoveries in the woods and being visited by an angel?
Unnamed Guest:Was it actually just to impress the people around in your immediate vicinity?
Unnamed Guest:Or actually was it a sort of a.
Unnamed Guest:As some places in the world today do, an attempt to use interpretations of archaeological evidence to legitimize full on statehood as opposed to just sort of feeling comfortable where you are.
Unnamed Guest:Do you know, I mean I have.
Michelle:A bit of sympathy in the case of Mormonism.
Michelle:I don't think there's any archaeological evidence that you.
Mark:Oh no, no, no wooden submarine has been found to date.
Unnamed Guest:No, no, no.
Unnamed Guest:But in that sense I can imagine a bored Swede just know.
Unnamed Guest:Carving out a.
Unnamed Guest:And it takes a little bit of knowledge.
Unnamed Guest:I mean like he, he, he clearly knew some older forms of Swedish and, and Norse derived.
Mark:Not really the runic Alphabet that he used.
Mark: ere used in Sweden as late as: Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Mark: has no earlier evidence than: Unnamed Guest:Oh, so not even.
Unnamed Guest:I always was always under the impression that while the, the runes were flawed but the.
Unnamed Guest:Something about the grammar was pushing it back to medieval at least.
Mark:Or not.
Mark:No, I mean I have read a lot of rules both medieval and Viking age.
Mark:And when you approach this early Scandinavian language, it's very difficult, especially if you're not used to it.
Unnamed Guest:Right.
Mark:You can't really, really go to a runestone, read it fluently even if you know the individual letters or look them up.
Mark: t this is like someone in the: Mark:And I mean it's a mixture of modern Swedish, Danish and Norwegian languages that the creator obviously had access to.
Michelle:Yeah, he said his biggest flaw was obviously not including Icelandic or pharaoh, but.
Unnamed Guest:Also as well it sounds.
Unnamed Guest:In that case then it's a little bit like bad, bad dialogue written that's sort of medieval, you know, thee, thou.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, ye old my lord.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, okay.
Unnamed Guest:Interesting.
Unnamed Guest:Okay, sorry.
Unnamed Guest:In that sense it sounds more like a D and D prop.
Unnamed Guest:It's kind of like a, you know.
Michelle:You know what's funny?
Michelle:Mark there actually is like a fake runestone like that where apparently at a larp.
Michelle:This is true.
Michelle:There was a runestone to commemorate it There was a LARP where they shot down a drone, and somebody took a spear and threw it.
Michelle:And you can.
Michelle:Yeah.
Michelle:So they decided to commemorate this very funny LARP event.
Michelle:And you can see it, and it's like a really angry person with a spear, and then like an evil drone with a sad face on it.
Michelle:Think it's really incredible.
Michelle:Okay, next question.
Mark:I.
Mark:I want to be petty about the Kensington Runestone, because it's actually medieval.
Mark: g to the stone itself, in the: Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Mark:So no Viking was involved at any point?
Michelle:No, no, impossible.
Unnamed Guest:When.
Michelle:When.
Michelle:When was the Viking period over?
Mark:Depends on who you ask.
Mark: I would say: Michelle:Yeah.
Michelle:At latest.
Mark: Yeah,: Unnamed Guest:And if you ask any home DNA testing kit, it's still going on.
Unnamed Guest:Turns out I'm Viking.
Unnamed Guest:Like, no.
Unnamed Guest:You know, but actually, so one little point on that.
Unnamed Guest:An awful lot of.
Unnamed Guest:And also, lots of people get very excited when they see a percentage of Scandinavian something or other in the.
Unnamed Guest:In the.
Unnamed Guest:The results.
Unnamed Guest:But actually, recent research has shown bigger movements of people in the preceding ages.
Unnamed Guest:So Bronze Age movements of people and so on and so forth.
Unnamed Guest:And also, of course, people, as you say, traveled the world continuously after.
Unnamed Guest:And it's fascinating how all it takes is for someone to get.
Unnamed Guest:I saw a meme today, actually, is, like, man, American man, when he discovers he has 2% Scandinavian DNA and he's basically got a beard, a horn.
Unnamed Guest:He's on.
Unnamed Guest:He's on, like, a mountain somewhere.
Unnamed Guest:And.
Unnamed Guest:And y.
Unnamed Guest:It's interesting that people think that that must mean Viking as opposed to, you know, just Scandinavian, as we talked about.
Michelle:When you and Howard were on our program.
Michelle:That doesn't mean anything.
Michelle:A Viking was somebody who very specifically went somewhere and did a specific thing.
Michelle:If you stayed home, you were not a Viking.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, but it also wasn't a genetic quarantine.
Unnamed Guest:It's not like you had a group of people who.
Unnamed Guest:But you have one of those genes.
Unnamed Guest:You need to leave.
Unnamed Guest:Go away.
Unnamed Guest:But I don't want to leave Sweden.
Unnamed Guest:No, you have to go now.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Unnamed Guest:Sorry, I'm rambling.
Michelle:Okay.
Michelle:Something else to infuriate both of you.
Michelle:How many Templars made it to the US A lot.
Mark:And they buried treasure in very deep pits.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:Under.
Unnamed Guest:Under a church at the edge of the old Dutch city of New York.
Mark:Don't forget the Treasure island in Canada.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Michelle:Where is that?
Michelle:I've never heard of this.
Michelle:Where's my treasure island?
Unnamed Guest:Is it Oakmont?
Unnamed Guest:Oak.
Mark:Oak Island.
Unnamed Guest:Oak island, yeah.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Mark:Have you missed Oak Island?
Unnamed Guest:You haven't Heard him digging.
Michelle:What myth is this?
Michelle:What is this?
Mark:The old kind of mystery.
Mark:It even has a.
Mark:It has a show on the History Channel.
Unnamed Guest:Yes.
Unnamed Guest:Like it's sec.
Unnamed Guest:It's second only to Hunting Hitler.
Unnamed Guest:Like it's, it's a big show.
Unnamed Guest:It's long running.
Michelle:I never heard this, this magical treasure island in Canada.
Michelle:No one ever told me this.
Mark:Plus according to legends discovered by some kids that decided to dig a very, very deep hole, I think 30ft or something like that.
Mark:Because they figure out that it would be treasure when they found it.
Mark:And then the hole started to get sold to different treasure parties who has been searching and people have been killed in there and it keep flooding and they've been digging there for about 100 years or so as I show on History Channel.
Mark:All kind of mystery.
Mark:You don't know.
Michelle:Treasure is the stupidity we found along the way.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:Although in a very literal sense, actually, I guess if you sell a mine, you are selling a hole.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Mark:And I mean, yeah, I guess it's a money pit because you know, they have sunk a lot of money into it.
Unnamed Guest:Hey, nice.
Unnamed Guest:I'm going to give you an extra point for that.
Michelle:No, no, no.
Michelle:You take away points for fun.
Michelle:So now we operate on this program.
Mark:Michelle, are you not familiar with your own history?
Michelle:Apparently not.
Michelle:Apparently I have never been told about the gold caves.
Mark:And it's not a cave, it's just.
Michelle:A pit where my money is at this point.
Michelle:I mean, you know, 41 years I have turned in this world and no one has told me that there's a magic money pit that I can go and dive into and retrieve gold from.
Mark:But nobody has found gold.
Michelle:No, they're not digging hard enough.
Unnamed Guest:It's not true, is it?
Unnamed Guest:Really?
Michelle:That's what happens when we take the children out of the mines.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, this is, this is true.
Unnamed Guest:But money has been found in the form of franchise rights and tv.
Unnamed Guest:So there is, you know, there's drama in them there.
Unnamed Guest:Pits.
Unnamed Guest:Gotta film it.
Michelle:Oh, that's great.
Michelle:Next question.
Unnamed Guest:Yep.
Michelle:Did the Vikings and their gods have spaceships?
Mark:Of course.
Mark:And spy drones.
Michelle:Oh yes.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Mark:And heat seeking missiles.
Michelle:Where did heat seeking missiles come from?
Mark:Odin's returning spear.
Mark:Of course.
Mark:It's Vikings.
Mark:Try to describe.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, I see.
Unnamed Guest:It returns because he's so hot.
Unnamed Guest:It just comes back.
Unnamed Guest:I am the old father.
Unnamed Guest:The hottest man alive.
Unnamed Guest:The spear returns.
Unnamed Guest:Except that one time when it hit him in the face, he's like, oh, my eye.
Michelle:I do appreciate Stargate's riff on this though and how they just thought that Thor was the little green men and Asgard was the ship.
Michelle:And they just go, yeah, this totally makes sense.
Michelle:Sure.
Michelle:Yeah.
Michelle:I do appreciate that they kind of leaned into that nonsense and just went.
Unnamed Guest:I seem to recall I didn't watch a lot of that series.
Unnamed Guest:I don't think it was easily available.
Unnamed Guest:But I remember seeing an episode where they were in what looked like a sort of an alpine village almost, and it was meant to be a sort of a projection of an unbroken sort of Norse influence on a planet somewhere.
Unnamed Guest:And then I remember them going, we're going to go and meet Thor now.
Unnamed Guest:I was like, oh, it's going to be interesting.
Unnamed Guest:And it's just that little gray thing with like big eyes.
Unnamed Guest:And I was like, I'm very disappointed.
Mark:Where's the blonde hair?
Mark:Where's the muscles?
Unnamed Guest:I didn't have to have blonde hair, but, you know, just have a.
Unnamed Guest:Have a.
Unnamed Guest:Have a face, you know.
Unnamed Guest:I mean, it was interesting.
Mark:It sounds interesting because usually they apply the area on aliens on that.
Mark:So it's.
Mark:I'm glad to hear that they didn't go that route because.
Michelle:No, no, it's great.
Michelle:And they actually made them like they, they need help because they've been around a long time that the grays are having difficulty reproducing.
Michelle:They've copied themselves so much that they can't reproduce themselves anymore.
Michelle:And they actually have other intergalactic enemies called the replicators that end up coming and swarming the shit.
Mark:But the replicators could solve their issue.
Michelle:I mean, well, the replicators replicate themselves, not other things.
Michelle:But Stargate SG1 was really good with that.
Michelle:They leaned into a lot of the conspiracy theories and made fun of them, but in a very creative way.
Michelle:So they had a whole conspiracy theory about the.
Michelle:Obviously the ancient Egyptians who took people.
Michelle:The aliens took people and they put them on another planet and then they built like a whole ancient Egyptian sort of thing and that the.
Michelle:The aliens were really called the.
Michelle:The Goa'uld.
Michelle:So like Ra and Apophis and all these other gods were really parasitic symbiotes that lived inside people and that continuously went into their supporters throughout time.
Michelle:Yeah, their, their whole take on things were.
Michelle:Was very interesting.
Michelle:But yes, the boar was one of the Grays.
Michelle:And I really, I really enjoyed that.
Michelle:Next question.
Michelle:What is Europe's.
Unnamed Guest:So can I just say both of those?
Unnamed Guest:Interestingly, though, add an interesting query, don't they.
Unnamed Guest:They imply that if you take a group of people from a certain time of place and you isolate them.
Unnamed Guest:So in the case of the Alpine village, or in the case of the Egyptians, that their culture will stagnate, that somehow it will just self replicate.
Unnamed Guest:No pun intended.
Michelle:Yes.
Michelle:Or they'll language where they can all just magically speak English for 500 years ago.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, well, yeah, but aside from that, in terms of art, in terms of scientific development, it seems as though the idea is people.
Unnamed Guest:And maybe this is true.
Unnamed Guest:It probably is true, actually, that you need to have inputs from outside your bubble to be challenged and to grow and to develop, perhaps.
Unnamed Guest:It's an interesting sort of implication, I suppose, but it also actually implies that people are too.
Unnamed Guest:Too unimaginative to change what they already have.
Unnamed Guest:Anyway, I just.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, just intriguing.
Michelle:They do.
Michelle:They do run into civilizations that are.
Michelle:Most of them are either dying out or they need help.
Michelle:Right.
Michelle:And so, yeah, they are.
Michelle:Their culture is stagnated or on.
Michelle:On the edge of dying.
Michelle:And so they do come to help those.
Michelle:The civilizations oftentimes, whether they're sometimes they're fungi, they're strange balloon people, and they have to help them anyway.
Unnamed Guest:So you like the way you worded that.
Unnamed Guest:They have to help them anyway, despite them being disgusting fungi people.
Michelle:They'll just replicate by themselves anyway.
Michelle:Yeah, just get a hose and make a moist environment.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, get a wet log.
Michelle:There are great wars with the moss people.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:Okay, so next question.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Michelle:Did.
Michelle:Did Europe have any ancient pyramids?
Mark:Yes.
Unnamed Guest:Yes.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:Bosnia.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:So in Bosnia, there's actually a whole national park for the Pyramid of the sun set up.
Unnamed Guest:And is it.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, Osmanovich, I think, is the guy.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, yeah, it's ancient.
Unnamed Guest:It's like from 19,000 years ago or something like that.
Unnamed Guest:The only problem is there's no evidence of it.
Unnamed Guest:And whenever people go there, like geologists, they go, this is geology.
Unnamed Guest:And I like the way you both are simultaneously taking it.
Unnamed Guest:He's got this.
Unnamed Guest:But it's just geology.
Unnamed Guest:And also, though, interestingly enough, though, to this day you do get people who've been there to the archaeological park and say that they've taken part in and seen archaeological excavation.
Unnamed Guest:And I just.
Unnamed Guest:I wonder, presumably what they're seeing is people doing digging, not actually finding archaeology.
Unnamed Guest:But.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, but yeah, it's interesting.
Unnamed Guest:They're called flatirons, which for a long time I called them flatirons because I'd never heard that said out loud.
Unnamed Guest:And then one day I heard on, I think it was a National Geographic program talking about the flatirons in part of the US And I went, oh, flatirons.
Unnamed Guest:Ah, not flatirons.
Mark:Yeah, yeah, but semiro's managies have excavated a lot before.
Mark:He had on his web page picture from his excavations where he came.
Mark:We found a ancient road leading up and what he ever done is dug down.
Mark:So he hit bedrock.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Mark:And then just put the angles of the shaft a bit so it goes like a road.
Mark:But he has no idea what he's doing.
Mark:And part of his evidence is photos with a crystal camera that can be only be interpreted by its inventor that photos the area of the hill.
Unnamed Guest:Wow.
Unnamed Guest:Wow.
Unnamed Guest:And I thought geophysics was complicated.
Unnamed Guest:That's astonishing.
Unnamed Guest:But.
Unnamed Guest:So his background I believe was in oil perspection.
Unnamed Guest:He went and worked in Texas for a long time.
Mark:Yeah.
Mark:He has had a.
Mark:I think it's a BA in economic of some sort.
Mark:Then he got a PhD in social science about the crystal skull.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Mark:And how the ancient Maya invented them.
Mark:I have no idea how it.
Michelle:So.
Michelle:So what institution did he pay for that one?
Mark:No, it was from a real Bosnian university.
Mark:But I think he was kind of forced through because if you read that Ph.D.
Mark:i have no idea how he made no.
Mark:Through the final rounds.
Mark:It's just.
Mark:I mean you can go and read it because I have a link to it on my website on the Bosnian pyramid episode if you want to have a real headache.
Unnamed Guest:And this wasn't written from a sort of a folk tales perspective.
Unnamed Guest:This was written as though it was an ancient.
Mark:No, so it's like a archaeology paper, but written by someone who has no idea about archaeology.
Mark:And for a social science or something.
Michelle:My PhD then.
Mark:Oh yeah, Social politics degree.
Mark:And then he was part of.
Mark:He became a professor, but it was just for a paper mill or a diploma mill.
Unnamed Guest:Okay, okay.
Mark:So he often refer himself as a professor.
Mark:And my favorite thing about him is that when people started to write him and complain about what he was doing and all that, he just add all these real archaeologists that wrote him in complaining as advisors on his website.
Michelle:Listen, that's a genius move.
Michelle:That's a genius move.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:Hey, you're advising me?
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unnamed Guest:You get.
Unnamed Guest:You get exposure.
Unnamed Guest:It's a win win.
Michelle:Genius move.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, wow.
Mark:But to answer your question more seriously, there are one ancient pyramid in Europe that still stands and it's in Rome and it's an actual burial.
Mark:Then we have a pyramidal structure in Hellenicon in Greece.
Mark:But I don't think those were pyramids.
Mark:I think they were just leaning inwards and then would go up as a tower.
Mark:And they seem to be quite recent.
Mark:I even visited those earlier this spring.
Mark:Beautiful place.
Mark:But it looks more like construction that we use in farming.
Mark:And there's other similar examples in.
Mark:I think it's Croatia with similar structure.
Mark:And then it had a straight tower on top, but the sides were kind of leaning, had a slope on them.
Unnamed Guest:And crucially, the Rome example is inspired by, of course, expeditions into North Africa.
Unnamed Guest:So in that sense, it's not a Roman pyramid, it's inspired by something else similar to, for example, near to me, Darren Cathedral.
Unnamed Guest:Its architecture is inspired by people coming back from the Middle east having seen mosques and going, oh, we could make that and doing something similar.
Michelle:No, it was aliens.
Unnamed Guest:They did it, Mark, they did it.
Unnamed Guest:I love the idea of an alien.
Michelle:They also put the spaceman on the cathedral.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Michelle:And the xenomorph.
Unnamed Guest:The xenomorph in Glasgow.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, the.
Unnamed Guest:I love the idea of an alien going round with, like, either a salesman's coat or a suitcase, briefcase, rather, and just.
Unnamed Guest:Just turning up and going, take me to a leader.
Unnamed Guest:See, you're taking to the leader and she goes, right, have you considered pyramids?
Unnamed Guest:And they just go.
Michelle:Slaps down the staircase and the pyramid scheme pops up.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yes, exactly.
Unnamed Guest:It's a pyramid scheme.
Unnamed Guest:Precisely.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Michelle:That's literally what it is.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Unnamed Guest:Opened up the suit, the briefcase, and before, before.
Unnamed Guest:Before they know it, they signed up.
Unnamed Guest:So the Emperor is just like, so what?
Unnamed Guest:Sorry, what?
Unnamed Guest:Who are you?
Unnamed Guest:What.
Unnamed Guest:What's going on?
Unnamed Guest:This is.
Unnamed Guest:Right, so you want.
Michelle:Yeah, we're just looking at the.
Michelle:The thing that signed, going, what's a timeshare?
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, he's like, right, so we're signed up to Package B, Right, okay, yeah.
Unnamed Guest:And.
Unnamed Guest:And they have no time to back out of it before, you know, the Senate's having to, you know, fund a pyramid and the aliens, like, yes, commission.
Michelle:At the beginning of Saints Row 4, which is one of the best games ever there, there's a whole sequence where Keith David is like the advisor to the.
Michelle:You are the president and Keith David is the advisor to you.
Michelle:Goes, okay, so which one, like, the aliens are attacking.
Michelle:There is literally an alien ship coming and attacking people.
Michelle:The aliens are coming to suck up Jane Austen.
Michelle:This is a real thing that happens.
Michelle:And, oh, if you've never played this game, this game is absolute genius.
Michelle:So Keith David holds up two contracts and he goes, which one do you want to do first?
Michelle:Do you want to cure cancer or do you want to cure hunger?
Michelle:And that's like your first choice as president.
Michelle:And you go, oh, no, man, fuck cancer.
Michelle:And then the aliens come and they stop you from curing.
Michelle:Cancer.
Unnamed Guest:Wow.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Michelle:And so that's really why we have cancer in the world, because, you know, 20 years ago, we stopped the aliens, or the aliens stopped us from making medical.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, if only.
Michelle:Speaking of other infuriating things, is the Shroud of Turin real or fake?
Unnamed Guest:In what sense do you mean real?
Michelle:Well, Mel Gibson just decided to say that it was real.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, come on.
Mark:Mel Gibson sail to the Americas and that he don't believe in evolution or carbon dating or whatever he said.
Mark:So.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Unnamed Guest:It's real in the sense that it's a natural artifact that was made by an artisan in the Middle Ages.
Unnamed Guest:In the Middle Ages, it was, I believe, commissioned by the church itself.
Unnamed Guest:Locally, there are letters discussing this.
Unnamed Guest:It's known as.
Michelle:There are also letters discussing how it's a fake and how people are really upset that it's a fake.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Unnamed Guest:And people are starting to get a bit too attached to it.
Unnamed Guest:And I believe it was under the previous Pope that the last statement was issued on the Turin Shroud.
Unnamed Guest:And what they said was, undoubtedly, it is central to many people's faith, or rather, it plays a great role in people's faith.
Unnamed Guest:Yes.
Unnamed Guest:But they don't go so far as to say it's not real.
Michelle:They've read the only reason that people think that this is quote, unquote real is just like Frederick said with our previous question, somebody faked evidence and they claimed that there was blood on the shroud.
Michelle:There was no blood on the shroud.
Michelle:It was a paper that got pushed through by somebody who saw the shroud.
Michelle: I think it was in: Unnamed Guest:That looks like they had a vision.
Michelle:They had a vision that it was real and that there was blood on it.
Michelle:And apparently that was good enough for the people who pushed the paper through.
Michelle:And of course, that paper has since been retracted.
Michelle:And it's not real.
Michelle:We know it isn't.
Michelle:And people have to understand that in the Middle Ages, people didn't think that this was real.
Michelle:In the Middle Ages, there were lots of pilgrimages to see lots of different relics and artifacts.
Michelle:We know that these relics were not real.
Michelle:It was a representation.
Michelle:It was a Sunday out.
Michelle:People could go and see the finger in a cabinet, and then they could come home.
Michelle:And it was a nice excuse to have a good picnic, to have a nice day out.
Mark:Yeah.
Mark:I mean, it was a tourist trap, in a sense.
Mark:You go there, you bought a medal to show that you was there, and then you went back.
Michelle:Yeah, yeah, that's pretty much it.
Michelle:It is.
Michelle:And no matter What?
Michelle:And the problem is, of course, conspiracy theorists will keep going back to this one paper in the 90s and going, oh, but you see, he said, he said it was real and they pushed the paper through, so it must be real.
Michelle:And now, of course, no, he's silencing him.
Mark:You have the Shroud Research group, I think they're called, that consists of real scientists, all of them religious, surprise, surprise.
Mark:But they are still publishing paper, trying to prove.
Mark:And they actually get PA and trying to get new dating techniques.
Mark:And the only object I have tested them on is the Tauren shroud.
Unnamed Guest:It's such a shame because in that sense I know fine well that there are religious scientists in my friend group who are deeply skeptical people.
Unnamed Guest:In that sense, you don't have to be making up things just because you have a faith in something else.
Unnamed Guest:But it's also a real shame that, that this comes actually back to the episode that we recorded on Magic, doesn't it?
Unnamed Guest:This idea that somehow in the past there wasn't the complex cultural capacity for people to enjoy fiction in a deeply meaningful, complex way, you know?
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:In the past people knew that magic was, it was entertainment.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:Magic is entertainment.
Unnamed Guest:Mystery plays as.
Unnamed Guest:As.
Unnamed Guest:As a representation and artifacts, icons even of faith as something to inspire you as opposed to something that's literally, in this instance, the shroud of.
Unnamed Guest:That wrapped the body.
Unnamed Guest:So it's.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, it's an, It's a.
Unnamed Guest:It's an interesting example.
Unnamed Guest:But also this is.
Unnamed Guest:I don't know if this, this is on your list, Michelle, but this is something that I was mentioning to Frederik the other day.
Unnamed Guest:This is, this is why I suspect that the Gunung Padang retracted paper is going to just echo on forever.
Unnamed Guest:For a couple of decades at least.
Michelle:Because I actually wasn't going to mention that.
Michelle:You did.
Unnamed Guest:No, because in that sense we've had.
Unnamed Guest:So I sent one link over to you, Frederic, but Now there's been two more since then, since that one on the 27th of December.
Unnamed Guest:There were three or four in the autumn last year.
Unnamed Guest:And obviously the paper was retracted back in March.
Unnamed Guest:And I think what I'm finding quite disappointing is the.
Unnamed Guest:Is the lack of literacy on the part of journalists to understand how important it is that it says this is retracted.
Unnamed Guest:It may still be.
Michelle:I will, I will just say this, Mark, that I don't think that.
Michelle:I think that's by design because they will automatic to get clicks.
Michelle:They will automatically print an article based on a retracted paper and then all the comments on the article will be this Is not true.
Michelle:This is being retracted.
Michelle:But they do it purposely to get the rage bait going.
Mark:Yeah, and that's one explanation.
Mark:But then we have to remember that most papers has gotten rid of their.
Mark:Well, science journalists, meaning that they have people that actually can read a scientific paper because it's not like picking up a book.
Mark:You have to train a bit to do it.
Unnamed Guest:But the definition of the word retracted is universal.
Mark:You don't have bad from the publisher sides in this because they should just remove it off the Internet.
Mark:Of course, there can be PDFs floating in obscure places, but they should just put a retracted and then pull down the article and the abstract, basically, and just.
Mark:Yeah, this was not correct.
Unnamed Guest:No, no.
Michelle:Next question.
Michelle:To infuriate.
Michelle:So were the four golden hats from the European Bronze Age just priestly antennas?
Mark:No, it's to communicate with the space overlord, Mitchell.
Michelle:Oh, yes.
Michelle:Sorry.
Michelle:Excuse me.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, well, I can't.
Michelle:You can't see for people who are listening, but Mark's confusion is just really.
Mark:Wonderful about the Jormun golden cone hats.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unnamed Guest:But in that sense it was more just a case of the space overlords.
Unnamed Guest:I wonder which ones these are.
Unnamed Guest:Which particular space overlords are we talking about at this point?
Unnamed Guest:It's.
Unnamed Guest:It's a fascinating thing, isn't it?
Unnamed Guest:As well, with hats.
Unnamed Guest:But that's a whole other story.
Unnamed Guest:But are these actually.
Unnamed Guest:Are they just conical?
Unnamed Guest:I'm not quite sure which ones you're referring to.
Mark:So these are Bronze Age.
Mark:From the Bronze Age and found in Germany.
Mark:And there are speculations that they are part of calendar.
Mark:If I remember correctly, I actually saw one of them here in December when I was in Berlin and realized that the Pergamon machine was closed for the next 30 years.
Unnamed Guest:That was beautiful.
Unnamed Guest:Delivery.
Unnamed Guest:Thank you.
Unnamed Guest:I was like, oh, no, it's Saturday.
Unnamed Guest:When's it going to be open?
Unnamed Guest: Well,: Mark:Yeah.
Mark:And I realized that they closed it, I think it was in November.
Mark:So I was like two weeks too late.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, man, that sucks.
Unnamed Guest:But you got to see the hat.
Mark:Got to see the hat.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Mark:At least did you get to talk to the alien?
Mark:No, I wasn't allowed to put it on.
Mark:It was just a bunch of guards tackling me and.
Unnamed Guest:But you did manage to lick it.
Unnamed Guest:That's what's important.
Mark:Not even that.
Mark:Don't mess with the Germans.
Unnamed Guest:No, no, no.
Michelle:The next question.
Michelle:So are mummies, vampires and Draugrs aliens?
Mark:Of course.
Unnamed Guest:Where the.
Unnamed Guest:Sorry, where the hell are we getting this idea from?
Michelle:This comes straight From Frederick's podcast.
Unnamed Guest:This is amazing.
Unnamed Guest:Wow.
Unnamed Guest:I've heard lots of other interesting conversation around, particularly draugr, but that they are alien.
Unnamed Guest:So is it the idea that the alien consciousness is seeding itself into the recently deceased?
Mark:If I.
Mark:I'm a bit hazy on that because it's quite long ago, but there's something.
Mark:The ancient aliens quickly ran out of ideas and tried to scramble to find content.
Mark:So I think it's that they have this weird disease and, you know, since they are immortal, it must be some sort of alien connection between them.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, is it possible that.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:Okay, interesting.
Unnamed Guest:Okay, yeah.
Michelle:Here's another question for you, Mark.
Unnamed Guest:Okay, yeah.
Michelle:What archaeological evidence is there for giants, specifically the Lovelock Giant, the San Diego Giant, and the famous Cardiff Giant.
Mark:There's real bodies.
Mark:I've seen the news clipping.
Michelle:Well, the Cardiff one, is that a real body?
Michelle:I don't know about that.
Unnamed Guest:I.
Unnamed Guest:I have been.
Unnamed Guest:The one good thing about having now actually finally taken an indefinite hiatus from having an arcaseu Facebook presence is that I no longer have to sift through the feed of Photoshop skulls.
Unnamed Guest:And I mean, the other day there was a toothbrush.
Unnamed Guest:This was AI actually an AI toothbrush.
Unnamed Guest:It was meant to be the size of a.
Unnamed Guest:Basically, I don't know, a bus.
Unnamed Guest:Because giants.
Unnamed Guest:And they can't even get the scale of these things consistent because, like, sometimes the giants appear to be just big people.
Unnamed Guest:In other cases they seem to be the size of.
Unnamed Guest:Of the Colossus of Rhodes or something.
Unnamed Guest:And it bothers me.
Unnamed Guest:But then what bothers me even more, yes, this is a long winded answer because I have no actual answer for you.
Unnamed Guest:What bothered me even more is that we're getting this now in.
Unnamed Guest:In the new Indiana Jones computer game, which is a fantastic game.
Unnamed Guest:I'm very much.
Michelle:So good.
Unnamed Guest:It's so good.
Unnamed Guest:So good.
Unnamed Guest:But they're doing it.
Unnamed Guest:They're doing the Nephilim and they're doing something else at the end.
Unnamed Guest:I don't want to spoil it for people who haven't finished the game, and that's a shame because it's one of the.
Unnamed Guest:More.
Unnamed Guest:It's not as overtly colonially crap as ancient aliens and so on so forth, but it's one of the most persistent pseudoarchaeological New Age myths, and it's strangely popular with people who are very much of faith of a belief, and they need this to be real.
Unnamed Guest:For some reason.
Unnamed Guest:It confuses and upsets me, basically, because clearly you have people who are making, especially in the early days Is it.
Michelle:Any better than the Ark of the Covenant?
Unnamed Guest:It is better.
Unnamed Guest:I think the Ark of the Covenant is.
Unnamed Guest:Is better actually, in terms of.
Unnamed Guest:Because at the very least there's a focused single object which has a connection to the storage of laws and Moses and all this.
Unnamed Guest:There's a reason for this focus of an object.
Unnamed Guest:In that sense, it could be construed as something similar to the Chirin Shroud.
Unnamed Guest:It's an icon of faith.
Unnamed Guest:It's a representation of a story.
Unnamed Guest:But with the giants, it's the fact that it's so inconsistent.
Unnamed Guest:But it's more.
Unnamed Guest: In the early: Michelle:We all saw that crap.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:And it's such a.
Unnamed Guest:I mean they've.
Michelle:Been going on with this for ages though.
Michelle:I mean look at all the tabloids.
Michelle:You know, you see everybody, tabloids, alien baby is born to giant man.
Michelle:Everybody knows it's fake.
Michelle:It's just funny.
Mark:But I have a special place in my heart for those old school Photoshop pictures.
Mark:It's just something.
Unnamed Guest:I mean, I do.
Unnamed Guest:But the problem is that the comments below are indistinguishable from comments you get still today.
Unnamed Guest:People just go, really push it.
Unnamed Guest:So for example, this is completely off topic, but someone commented the other day on it on a TikTok piece about it was the Joe Rogan wristwatches clip.
Unnamed Guest:So someone shows him pictures of.
Unnamed Guest:I think it's a Sumerian carvings with so called wristwatches.
Unnamed Guest:And, and someone commented saying, ah, but isn't it possible that, you know, don't get me wrong, she said, I don't believe that they're wristwatches.
Unnamed Guest:But isn't it possible that our leaders are trying to make us think that gems and quartz and diamonds don't have special time travel powers so that we don't.
Michelle:Not at all where I thought you were going.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, I know, I know.
Unnamed Guest:So that we don't investigate it.
Unnamed Guest:So that we remain powerless.
Unnamed Guest:And I didn't respond, but I really wanted to say no, you know what?
Michelle:Because Sharon, you take your little rose quartz and you go up to a world leader and you magically bibbidi bobidi boo them away, I'll believe you.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, do it.
Unnamed Guest:Fine.
Unnamed Guest:But I think it's much more likely that people getting lost in those comment sections is precisely what lets people get away with not tackling climate change.
Unnamed Guest:Not doing effective economic work, not actually working for the benefit of humanity.
Unnamed Guest:It's.
Michelle:It's my giants and my research.
Michelle:And then you have to humanity.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Mark:You have to remember that the science often radicalizes you in a way.
Mark:So I completely destroyed my social media accounts for this podcast thinking of ancient aliens, because I press the, you know, pseudoscience.
Mark:It gets more and more and it gets darker and darker for every day that passes by.
Mark:But I mean, for a normal person that clicks it, oh, this looks interesting.
Mark:Then they see it again and again and kind of reinforces this idea that it must be true.
Mark:And I mean, as I said, special plus for plays in the heart for the old school Photoshop AI.
Mark:I'm not really.
Mark:I hate those.
Mark:But they.
Mark:They even got lazier recently.
Mark:So have you encountered Stargate Voyager or Derek Olson, as he's also known?
Mark:He published.
Mark:He published a lot of weird claims online, but recently he published a picture of a skeleton and said, 15 real evidence for giants.
Mark:And I reverse Google that image.
Mark:So it's from a mirror article talking about the excavation in the Astrakhan region in Russia that mentions nothing about them being very tall.
Unnamed Guest:So it's just a fake.
Unnamed Guest:This skeleton is far away.
Unnamed Guest:Dougal.
Mark:No cropped it, so it kind of looks big, but wow.
Unnamed Guest:Wow, that is lazy.
Unnamed Guest:That is very.
Michelle:We're not going to talk about the Holy Grail, but I just want to mention it for a second because all of these, and obviously all these giants are fake, but all of them for specific reasons.
Michelle:But especially like the Cardiff Giant, which was just like a carnival hoax and it's made out of stone, and when you look at it, you just go, oh, come on.
Michelle:Like, who would believe that this is real?
Michelle:This is ridiculous.
Michelle:He looks like a Pez candy.
Michelle:It's really terrible.
Michelle:But people, I.
Michelle:I've heard.
Michelle:I've even heard people say things like, oh, but people who don't believe in conspiracy theories say, oh, but the Holy Grail was real.
Michelle:And I go, no, we know who invented it.
Michelle:It was never real.
Michelle:It was really, you know, it's part of the Christian cycle and it's meant as a symbol of purity and faith and it's unattainable.
Michelle:That is what the Grail means.
Michelle:But it's something that's completely unattainable.
Michelle:But people still believe that it's real.
Michelle:But just because it's so prevalent in media and as well when it comes to Enochian literature, which is what the giant, these giants of the Nephilim are from, people, people look at the Ark.
Michelle:And they go, oh, but like the Ark of the Covenant, that might have been real.
Michelle:We don't have any evidence for it, but it might have been.
Michelle:So why not the Nephilim?
Michelle:If we can find evidence for it, then no, it has to be.
Michelle:They think that, like the Book of Enoch and the Book of Giants were taken out of canon because, oh, the government doesn't want you to know.
Michelle:They don't want you to know that there are really giants.
Michelle:You go, no, those were written way later.
Michelle:That's Greco Roman time.
Michelle:People don't understand the timeline of when things biblically were written down.
Michelle:So in that sense, they see books like this and they just think, well, why isn't it part of Canada?
Michelle:Why don't we know about this?
Unnamed Guest:So in that sense, do you think then that actually there isn't.
Unnamed Guest:Is there a safe level in that sense?
Unnamed Guest:If I was trying to make a distinction between the Ark and giants and even, for example, the Charing Shroud and giants, but is it possibly a case of, for example, maybe actually the Shurin shroud should be considered to be akin to the Ark, if not giants, because it's clearly an artifact of fiction.
Unnamed Guest:It's religious fiction, but it's still fiction.
Michelle:Should we get into the whole.
Michelle:Is all religious fiction just fiction?
Unnamed Guest:It's a pretty deep discussion.
Unnamed Guest:I'm not, I don't, I don't want, I don't.
Unnamed Guest:This comment section is going to be hard enough anyway.
Unnamed Guest:But, you know, I think it's.
Unnamed Guest:I think it's possible for people to have articles of faith.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Unnamed Guest:In like a personal way.
Unnamed Guest:But it's interesting.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, I think, I see, I see why you get, why you, you hop from the giants then to, to the ark.
Unnamed Guest:Because in that sense, which, why are you letting one through, as it were, the gap and not the other?
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Michelle:So, for example, if the Nephilim were mentioned in conjunction with Noah and the Ark, and if we don't have.
Michelle:I mean, there's obviously Dr.
Michelle:Ring Finkel, who's such a legend, has written the Ark before Noah, in which they talk about what the ark might have looked like and how based on the instructions, there's probably a giant coracle and that kind of thing, but again, we have no evidence of the Ark.
Michelle:No evidence of Noah's Ark, I should say.
Michelle:So is it really, at that point, is it really any different than the Ark of the Covenant?
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:Let'S make you angrier, Mark.
Michelle:So the.
Unnamed Guest:I'm always angry.
Unnamed Guest:That's my secret.
Michelle:I'm just going to Hulk out eventually.
Michelle:Are the obelisks.
Michelle:An Illuminati conspiracy.
Unnamed Guest:Which specific obelisks?
Michelle:All of them.
Unnamed Guest:Right, okay.
Unnamed Guest:No.
Mark:No, because they're part of the ancient alien Egyptian power grid.
Mark:So we all know that the pyramids generate the hard drive, electricity, and then the obelisks are, you know, like pylons that makes it flow forward.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, well, there you go.
Unnamed Guest:That's it.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:I mean, one interesting thing I know about the obelisk that ended up in London, the Cleopatra's Needle, is that they used as a ballast for the ship.
Unnamed Guest:Mummies, cat mummies, and other remains of the dead, which when they got to London, they then used as fertilizer on fields in and around the countryside.
Unnamed Guest:So, you know, why do people work so hard to make these things make sense?
Unnamed Guest:Because the Illuminati, you think that they'd have better things to do, wouldn't you?
Michelle:I mean, also, I mean, that organization lasted a handful of years and that was it.
Mark:They were done thousands of years after the last obelisk.
Unnamed Guest:That's what they want you to think.
Michelle:Oh, yeah, sorry, yes, exactly.
Unnamed Guest:That's what they want you to think, you know.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:The greatest trick the devil ever pulled.
Unnamed Guest:And just like that, he's gone.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, I hadn't heard that one.
Unnamed Guest:Obelisks.
Unnamed Guest:This is.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, this is.
Unnamed Guest:This is an education.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, thank you.
Michelle:Here's another one you probably haven't heard, Mark.
Michelle:Is Newgrange aligned with the Orion star alignment?
Unnamed Guest:No.
Unnamed Guest:No, it's not.
Mark:Yes, according to ancient alien theory.
Unnamed Guest:It's like we're all trying to out dry each other.
Unnamed Guest:There's this moment where I go, what?
Unnamed Guest:Oh, no.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Mark:We got someone commenting that it was proven that it was aligned the Orion constellation.
Mark:And it's well known that all monuments in this area aligns with different stars and star signs.
Mark:And then I asked, what paper was this published in?
Mark:And then he stopped responding.
Unnamed Guest:Probably because he's still trying to find the paper.
Unnamed Guest:I mean, paywalls are horrible things.
Michelle:Jstor, my friends.
Michelle:Jstor, Edudemia, Edu.
Michelle:You can find all papers there for free.
Michelle:And all you have to do is make an account.
Michelle:There is no cost whatsoever.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, I know.
Michelle:You can do it as well through your public library.
Michelle:They can do it for you.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Unnamed Guest:That's cool.
Unnamed Guest:I know I have a legacy login as a alumnus from my uni, but I've never used it because frankly I forgot.
Unnamed Guest:And then now I'm now just going, oh, yeah.
Unnamed Guest:All this time I've been going, papers need access.
Unnamed Guest:Okay, thank you.
Unnamed Guest:Public Service.
Michelle:Next question, just for you, Mark.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:Why do archaeologists love bricks so much?
Unnamed Guest:Because they're amazing.
Unnamed Guest:Bricks are bricks of wonderful things.
Unnamed Guest:Baked bricks, cooked bricks, ceramic bricks that exist, broadly speaking, further north than 40 degrees on our planet because it's too damp to have sunbaked.
Unnamed Guest:Bricks that don't collapse are not only like Lego, they're not only sort of little things that you can build almost anything out of, but they're also wonderful little records of material usage, of building techniques, but also just of things like footprints.
Unnamed Guest:You know, you get cats and dogs and people.
Unnamed Guest:You get beautiful.
Unnamed Guest:There's an antifix tile from a Roman bathhouse in Prastatin where I'm from, that exists because actually, tiles and bricks and other ceramic building material is actually quite hard.
Unnamed Guest:It's one of the best pieces of evidence that we have.
Unnamed Guest:And I feel like you've just given me a little.
Unnamed Guest:You've given me a little shop window here for one of my not so jokey genuine loves.
Michelle:I've given you hope, which I'm now going to crash.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, okay.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Unnamed Guest:Well, I'll just say I've got a small collection of bricks in the back garden.
Unnamed Guest:I can send you a photo if you want.
Mark: have brick building until the: Mark:So it was our first building made out of brick, was built just outside of Birke, the Viking settlement, by the Swedish royalty at the time.
Mark:And, I mean, Sweden isn't really placed for bricks.
Mark:We have other cheaper materials.
Mark:We haven't used it as much, but it was supposed to be a very fabulous building.
Mark:And we even have found bricks with marks of who made them.
Mark:And he was very proud, so he signed it in both sides in runes.
Mark:So we know that one who made these bricks was named Bove.
Unnamed Guest:Nice, Nice.
Unnamed Guest:You see bricks.
Unnamed Guest:Great.
Michelle:Here's a question to crush your soul, Mark.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Michelle:Why won't archaeologists just submit that the Earth is flat?
Unnamed Guest:Oh.
Michelle:I lift you up and I put you down.
Unnamed Guest:Well, because, to be fair, why would we like.
Unnamed Guest:And I mean that as in you won't admit it.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Unnamed Guest:No, no.
Unnamed Guest:But not only.
Unnamed Guest:Well, actually, no.
Unnamed Guest:Okay, let's flip it on its head.
Unnamed Guest:Why wouldn't we?
Unnamed Guest:Okay, so in that sense, if the Earth was flat and we lived in a perfect Euclidean geometric projection, that actually it would be wonderful for strata, it'd be fantastic for doing an excavation because everything would be flat and you wouldn't have confusing shapes and gravity wouldn't mess up a site after the fact.
Unnamed Guest:You wouldn't have to figure out the processes going on once something is actually in the ground.
Unnamed Guest:Life would be much easier as an archaeologist if the world was flat.
Unnamed Guest:But it's not, and we know it's not for various reasons, which I'm.
Unnamed Guest:I understand, but I'm also not an astrophysicist who can.
Unnamed Guest:Who points this out stuff out a lot else.
Michelle:Just very simply.
Michelle:Even the Greeks knew the world was flat.
Unnamed Guest:That's the point.
Michelle:Yeah, Aristotle, the idea that the world is fly.
Michelle:People think, oh, no, they knew the world was round.
Mark:But how did they knew that, Michelle?
Mark:Because of the aliens?
Unnamed Guest:No, no, they.
Unnamed Guest:No, they knew it because of sticks in the ground and observing shadows.
Unnamed Guest:And actually there's a.
Unnamed Guest:One thing.
Unnamed Guest:Sorry, I know that was a joke, but one thing that I've been playing Horizon Zero dawn in the past couple of months and there's a wonderful moment in that game where the protagonist is climbing up a hill to get somewhere and someone in her ear is saying, the world isn't flat.
Unnamed Guest:Aloy, this may surprise you.
Unnamed Guest:And she just goes, of course it's not flat.
Unnamed Guest:And she talks about how just observer observing.
Unnamed Guest:I think it was shadows from the top of the ruin in the city.
Unnamed Guest:You could tell that they change.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, and.
Unnamed Guest:And I thought, yeah, people just thinking about it, just genuinely just mulling it over always.
Michelle:No, this whole idea came from Washington Irving and it was really just a new Catholic idea.
Michelle:It had nothing to do with any kind of ancient anything.
Michelle:Ancient people as far back certainly as Greeks knew that there were.
Michelle:Even the very first map of the world that we have from Babylon is round.
Michelle:End of story.
Mark:And that's something that amazed me with the ancient alien people.
Mark:That they might be anti evolution, they might be anti history, they might be racist, but they are not flat Earthers.
Unnamed Guest:Dude, you can call me a lot of things, but yeah.
Mark:Even that I looked at.
Mark:That's dumb.
Mark:Guys, the alien told us they're around this Earth and they are alien.
Mark:They're flying above.
Mark:That's how ancient people know the globe is round.
Mark:How would they otherwise know?
Mark:It's impossible to know.
Unnamed Guest:I do wonder what happens when these guys share a conference.
Michelle:Oh, Frederick, you gotta go, man.
Unnamed Guest:You gotta go and just, just get the flat Earthers to talk to the.
Unnamed Guest:To the guys, the other guys who are talking about how they.
Mark:Oh, that would be a fun documentary idea.
Mark:Take flat Earthers to argue with ancient.
Unnamed Guest:Alien people and I imagine you can probably track this stuff on a sort of almost like a logic gate where they're together.
Unnamed Guest:They're together.
Unnamed Guest:Together.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, no, no, no, no.
Unnamed Guest:The Earth is flat.
Unnamed Guest:No, the Earth isn't flat.
Unnamed Guest:And then they're together.
Unnamed Guest:They're together.
Unnamed Guest:And then.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, oh, aliens.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, no, brown people.
Unnamed Guest:And then you'll just see this sort of.
Unnamed Guest:This progression of.
Unnamed Guest:It could be a beautiful diagram, you know, and then, ironically, they all come back to one point after all of that, when it just says against the main.
Unnamed Guest:You know, the mainstream is against us.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:So it would all come back.
Unnamed Guest:It was like a.
Unnamed Guest:Be like a bell curve at the other.
Unnamed Guest:At the other end of it would be like, but the mainstream is against us.
Unnamed Guest:They all say in one voice.
Mark:And then where they will start fighting again about who is mainstream of them.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, you're mainstream, man.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:You just have some random guy in the middle, breaking up the fight going, bro.
Michelle:Trust me.
Unnamed Guest:Absolutely.
Michelle:We only have a couple questions left.
Michelle:So next question.
Michelle:Why is nobody mentioning the fact that an alien ship came to see Charlemagne?
Unnamed Guest:I can't keep saying this, but that's a new one on me.
Mark:Did I cover this or have you started improvising, Michelle?
Michelle:I said this one you mentioned very briefly.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, Charlemagne.
Mark:Well, but all world leaders, they kind of want to assign alien connection with.
Mark:Because you can't be a powerful leader without alien interference.
Mark:So you're ruling from the benevolence of the alien space lord.
Mark:The same with Alexander the Great.
Mark:He apparently had either UFO fighting for him and maybe even against him.
Michelle:In this one specifically, in the annals of Lorsch in Germany, it says that there were two shields burning with red color and moving above the church when Charlemagne got there.
Michelle:So, I mean, there are other medieval texts that recall other celestial phenomena around this same time.
Michelle:But it's the same thing with the wood plaque from Germany.
Michelle:There are so many things that people will look at these old medieval depictions and they go, aha.
Michelle:You see aliens.
Mark:My favorite is the one, the one from England with the aliens that climbs down from rope ladders.
Michelle:Oh, that one I don't know about.
Michelle:That one's fun.
Mark:I don't remember the full story, but it's kind of like a sailor and he comes down and then he drowns in the air because he's not from.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, oh, oh, that poor guy.
Mark:I think one of them is also about an anchor that gets stuck in a church because they kind of.
Mark:They need to anchor the spaceship.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, okay.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Unnamed Guest:Makes sense, I suppose.
Michelle:Second to last question.
Michelle:What happened to the aliens who fell from Magonia?
Mark:From what?
Michelle:Magonia.
Mark:Magonia.
Unnamed Guest:Is this too much?
Unnamed Guest:Have we entered a realm that's too much for Frederick?
Michelle:I think Frederick's brain, a certain part of his brain just automatically wipes every time he gets a trauma response.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:Deep into the hole and he just goes, oh, God.
Michelle:I don't remember.
Michelle:This one is a 9th century Latin manuscript.
Michelle:The archbishop Agobard of Lyon complained about the French peasantry insisted belief that a certain region called Begonia when ships came in the clouds and apparently there were people who showed up and got off and.
Mark:Yeah, yeah, that's part of the legends I just mentioned.
Mark:But I'm bad with names.
Mark:It's horrible.
Michelle:It's likely that the archbishop just made up this story because nobody else mentions it whatsoever.
Michelle:And it was.
Michelle:It was.
Michelle:People think of this one because it was the Brothers Grimm who latch on to the story and then repeat it.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Michelle:No, there's no.
Michelle:There's no evidence this ever happened.
Michelle:And people think it might have been some kind of part of either part of a Germanic or Frankish mythology, but there's no evidence ever happened.
Michelle:Same thing with the airship of colonic noise.
Michelle:There's a very famous.
Michelle:Actually, Howard and Frederick were talking about this.
Michelle:As Howard said, I don't understand where people get this whole idea of Celtic and Viking peoples and airships.
Michelle:So there is a story about the airship of Palm Hua's that happened in the early medieval times.
Michelle:And there was an airship that came in again.
Michelle:People got off and said, oh, how do you do?
Michelle:How do you do?
Michelle:Let's have lunch.
Michelle:And then that's it.
Michelle:But nothing else happened.
Michelle:And this is talked about.
Michelle:This event is actually talked about in a couple of sagas.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Mark:Yeah.
Mark:But flying boats are quite common idea.
Mark:I mean, if you want to have people.
Mark:I've always wanted to fly and using a boat seems like a logical idea.
Mark:I know that Canada has some.
Mark:Some lumber stories regarding flying birch Canutes and.
Mark:Yeah, lumbers to make a deal with the devil and then it can go to Montreal and celebrate.
Michelle:It's very hard to get the wings on the canoes this time of year.
Unnamed Guest:Hey.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:That's the magic word that makes the boats fly.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Unnamed Guest:This is a slightly dark joke, but I saw the other day, obviously, with recent talk of US expansion, the idea of Canada becoming a state, which is laughable.
Unnamed Guest:People were workshopping names for the new country and they were saying it should be the usa.
Unnamed Guest:Very good.
Unnamed Guest:No, not very good.
Unnamed Guest:No.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Unnamed Guest:It's not funny.
Mark:You're not looking Forward being the 51st state, Michelle.
Michelle:Yeah, sure.
Michelle:I mean, you know, we'd love to take over the US and give them free health care.
Michelle:That's great.
Michelle:Yeah, let's do that for them.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Michelle:Especially with the horrible fires going on now.
Michelle:We would, you know, Canada's already down there fighting the fires, so we would love to give them insurance.
Michelle:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:Canadians and gay firefighters, apparently.
Michelle:Are they one in the same?
Michelle:I'd love to see pictures of those.
Michelle:Fantastic.
Michelle:Great.
Unnamed Guest:Love it.
Michelle:Last question.
Michelle:Did the aliens build Rome so that all roads lead to the same spaceship?
Unnamed Guest:Come on.
Unnamed Guest:Come on.
Unnamed Guest:That's a saying, man.
Unnamed Guest:That's a saying that someone.
Unnamed Guest:I don't know where it comes from.
Unnamed Guest:I can't remember where it comes from, but it's a saying and it's not.
Unnamed Guest:That's not a guiding principle.
Unnamed Guest:Rome wasn't built before the road.
Unnamed Guest:After the road network.
Unnamed Guest:Rather, that implies that there were roads there.
Unnamed Guest:And then the Romans founded Rome.
Unnamed Guest:That's not how it worked.
Unnamed Guest:That's not how it happened.
Unnamed Guest:And then the idea that therefore it's a drawing process to suck in humanity onto the mothership.
Unnamed Guest:It's.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, just logic, you know, basic, like, like, like, like, like just, just principles of.
Unnamed Guest:Of cause and effect.
Unnamed Guest: That's all we need in: Unnamed Guest:And all roads go to the object that it's referring to, not the Coliseum.
Mark:Do you know, I would say it goes to Coliseum because it's a great place to land your spaceship.
Michelle:Oh, interesting.
Michelle:Okay.
Michelle:The circuit.
Michelle:Okay, I see that it's in reference to the malarium aureum, the stone.
Mark:But I mean, it's logical that the Romans would build roads that lead to Rome since it was the capital.
Michelle:Yeah, that's where the aliens are, obviously.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Unnamed Guest:I'm like, I love you guys, but can we, like, next time do a quiz that doesn't kill us?
Michelle:This was at Frederick's request, so on that.
Michelle:How'd you do, Mark?
Michelle:What's the score?
Unnamed Guest:Well, I haven't actually.
Unnamed Guest:This isn't taught.
Unnamed Guest:I have a score of seven, which Frederic will be happy to know is not as high as his score, which is 7.5.
Unnamed Guest:So very well done, Frederick.
Unnamed Guest:Well done.
Unnamed Guest:And the 0.5 was just for a little bit of extra, extra knowledge here and there.
Unnamed Guest:So very well done.
Michelle:Thank you, Mark, now that you've won, what do you get?
Mark:Yeah, I guess I don't have to leave the show to Mark, who otherwise would be your new host.
Unnamed Guest:Oh, God.
Unnamed Guest:Just crying.
Unnamed Guest:I don't want to have to, Mark.
Michelle:Ugly crying in a microphone.
Unnamed Guest:But I didn't know, I didn't, I didn't mean to win the quiz.
Unnamed Guest:Wow.
Unnamed Guest:Well, I don't know.
Unnamed Guest:I mean do, do we, do we think that, that the ideas are going to calm down as far as.
Michelle:No.
Unnamed Guest:No.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Unnamed Guest:No.
Unnamed Guest:Okay.
Michelle:As long as there is.
Michelle:It's something I've known in general well, I think I've seen really in the last 20 years, especially now with horrific AI and all those kinds of things.
Michelle:People will believe what they want to believe and the interest in the truth and in history, people are just not interested.
Michelle:We do this as well on my show where we talk about things that actually are historical events that people will say happened, which we don't mean did not happen.
Michelle:And it really is down to education and the education systems in everybody's individual country.
Michelle:And unfortunately there are certain countries that have unfortunate education systems that are designed to keep people guessing really.
Michelle:And they just leave people to find out on their own.
Michelle:And sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't.
Mark:But I actually working on Ancient Apocalypse at the moment, season two.
Mark:So I have new headaches going on here.
Mark:But Michelle, Mark, great having you back.
Mark:Happy that I didn't have to hand over the show to you.
Frederick:Mark.
Mark:I think you're equally as happy.
Mark:Remember, read a fine print in the contract next time.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah, Predatory Frederick contract.
Unnamed Guest:Yeah.
Mark:But take care and I hope to see you again sometime.
Unnamed Guest:Bye bye.
Michelle:We'll see if we come back.
Frederick:And again, a huge thank you to Michelle and Mark.
Frederick:I'm happy to walk out to this a victor even if the well victory was slim.
Frederick:And make sure to check out Mark's and Michelle's content on other channels.
Frederick:I will link their stuff in the show notes to this podcast so you can just go there and get even more history, archaeology and a lot of different things over at their channels.
Frederick:And if you want to support the show, head over to patreon.com diggingupancientaliens or if you want another option than Patreon you can sign up at the members portal that you find over@ diggingupancientaliens.com support.
Frederick:Signing up gives you well ad free episodes.
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Frederick:So this episode was a bit longer but you who are listening in the public feed, well you missed a bit of discussions in this episode but if you become well supporter you get bonus content and extended episodes.
Frederick:Again if you want to contact me it can be done through most social media sites and if you have comments, corrections, suggestions or hankering to write that email in all caps, you find my contact in info on the website.
Frederick:The show is created with the support of the Archaeology Podcast Network.
Frederick:You find a lot of other great shows like the CRM Podcast and well and My Travel on their website.
Frederick:Producer of the show is Ashley Array and I, Frederik Tresahan wrote most of the episodes, not this one, edited and mastered the episode you are listening to.
Frederick:Sandra Martelor created intro music and her outro is by the band called Tralsgruve who sings their song Fuli Hut.
Frederick:Links to both of these artists can be found in the show notes.
Frederick:Until next time, keep shoveling that science.