Is Upskilling an Employee Perk or an Expectation?

DMEC: Welcome to Absence Management Perspectives: A DMEC Podcast. The Disability Management Employer Coalition, or DMEC as we're known by most people, provides focused education, knowledge and networking opportunities for absence and disability management professionals. DMEC has become a leading voice in the industry and represents more than 20,000 professionals from organizations of all sizes across the United States and Canada. This podcast series focuses on industry perspectives and delves into issues that affect DMEC members and the community as a whole. We're thrilled to have you with us and hope you'll Visit us at www.dmec.org to get a full picture of what we have to offer. From webinars and publications to conferences, certifications, and much more. Let's get started and meet the people behind the processes.

Heather Grimshaw: Hi, thank you for joining us. I'm Heather Grimshaw with DMEC and today we're talking about education trends within leave management, which include a movement away from job task analyses to competency based analyses and the important nuances the shift represents. Our guests are DMEC Education Team subject matter experts Kristin Jones, Director of Education Programs for dmec, and Laura Bull, Experiential Learning Manager for DMEC. You'll find their full titles and all of the letters after their names in the notes section of this episode, which also includes links to resources mentioned during the episode. I'm going to kick us off today with a few questions. A recent survey of 1,000 employees across North America showed a disconnect between an interest in upskilling and those who know where to start with this process. The study, which was released by Skills Wave, notes that this skills gap can leave employers vulnerable to decreased productivity and employee departures. So Kristin, with so many options to consider for education, what's the best approach for employers to take?

Kristin Jones, CLMS, PHR, SHRM-CP: Thanks, Heather. I think there's a lot of opportunity for employers with this and I think it really starts pretty basic and foundational with creating a culture around education first and foremost to get employees engaged in that mindset and meet them where they are. Because we know that employees want the education. I think that aligns with the Skills Wave finding as well. As last year we did our own PULSE survey of our members or of our contacts around professional development opportunities and got a lot of great insight from that as well.

And in fact, in our survey, which was smaller than the Skills Waves survey, ours was just over 300 participants, but they were all within our specific industry. And so speaking of professionals and strictly in the absence and disability management space, 99.6% of our respondents recognized professional development Opportunities as either extremely or somewhat important. I mean, that's virtually everyone who said that it was at those highest levels of importance to them personally. And in fact, of those 75.8% actually classified it as extremely important. And so we know that for people in our space specifically, that's really important. So if going back to that Skills Wave survey, if they don't know where to find that education, that's going to cause a lot of potential impacts that might not be good for employers or employees, they're more likely to look for a new position or a new opportunity. If there's employers out there who are positioning themselves as being supportive and helpful in that front, if they don't know where to find the education themselves as an individual, there can be some comfort in finding an organization that will maybe be more supportive and guide you in that and provide those opportunities and a little bit more of a training roadmap for you, whether they're leveraging their own education and training and professional development opportunities or externally sourced. So I think that culture from the employer to help guide and provide some direction is really welcomed by employees. In fact, going back to our survey that we did last year, of the respondents, of the total respondents, over 25% of respondents indicated that they either had left or were currently considering leaving their employer due to a lack of professional development opportunities. So we know the overwhelming majority, virtually all of the folks surveyed want the opportunities. We know over a quarter of them either have left or are considering leaving because of a lack of those opportunities. And we know from the Skills Wave survey they don't know necessarily on their own where to find it. So I think that presents a real opportunity for employers to provide those opportunities to employees to provide the culture around it. And there's a lot of things they can do, even with things that maybe would be a little easier to work into practice. You know, sometimes the fun, I say easier, sometimes the funding is hard to get to support a full-fledged program that would be equitable and, and allow opportunities for everyone. Now sometimes that's absolutely in the cards and that's a wonderful thing and I think that's really impactful for employees. But I think there's options such as flexible scheduling, even if you can't pay for or in some way subsidize the training at an organizational level for your employees. And maybe if you have a culture where you can provide some flexible scheduling for an employee who is doing a training, a professional development course or program to allow them to do it during working hours, that's a Very supportive approach in doing that.

There's other things such as, you know, public recognition throughout the organization, throughout social sharing channels and really celebrating when people do earn certifications or new learning milestones. That does a lot to cement that culture and that organization, organization as supportive to that. If there is funding available, it's always great to look at options, group purchasing and things where you might be able to get volume discounts and be able to again deepen that culture of training with your team by, you know, if you put your full team through a training or gradually through a training, you can also create some kind of subgroups within your organization. Study groups, discussion groups, resource groups, things like that that support the process. And I think that is a really great approach to not only helping employees identify the training when an organization does something like that, because that is the organization kind of leading them to the training. And it also gives the organization some agency over what skills and tools and competencies they want their employees to develop to have a best in class program. So I think those are some great strategies for employers to consider and implement.

Heather Grimshaw: I like what you said there in terms of the new learning milestones as well as the agency that is available for employers to pinpoint and maybe guide their employees toward, as you said, the skills and the tools and the competencies that they need for success. And I think especially in leave management, the need to stay on top of this ever changing landscape seems to just intensify.

Laura Boll, CLMS: Yeah, Heather, I really agree with Kristin about the culture of the company. I think that is probably the, I would think the number one reason the culture, whether it's at a high level for learning or not, is going to be very influential on just everyday workers trying to do some professional development for their own purposes. And even in the most forward thinking or forward high level culture of learning at a company, it's just hard to find time with priorities and deadlines and just doing your daily job to take the time away to, you know, get that training in even when you're seeking it out and you have a employer with a strong culture of learning. If there is a strong culture of learning that's just going to influence, you know, people to do, make the time, set aside time on the calendar, find ways that they can get that in. And then Kristin gave some great strategies to do that as well, that's really helpful.

Heather Grimshaw: And I think that strong, I'm using air quotes that you can't see, but that reference to the strong culture of learning is so important and especially with this data that shows its importance for recruitment as well as retention and also that confusion. Where do I start? How you know, what does that look like? It's great input. Thank you. Kristin, your comments about a need for employers to provide not only that supportive culture, but also a path for employees to follow with regard to finding the education they need brings me to my next question. DMEC released an updated Certified Leave Management Specialist (CLMS) training and Kristen, it would be great to hear you talk about what prompted this update of the CLMs, as we call it, and identify some of the major differences for people who have gone through this course and received their certificates.

That course launched in late: 2016

Laura Boll, CLMS: I agree with Kristin. We're very excited. Just wanted to add that, like she said, from a design perspective, we really wanted to make this revamp more modern, engaging, interactive, and we've done that. One of the most exciting things for me, though, was when we first started looking at the content and deciding where and where to target the updates and how to change it. We did take a really close look at evaluations and feedback from people that had taken the course before, and we were really able to implement some of those wish list items, the things that we kept seeing repetitively in those evaluations. And so that applied learning course kind of came from those comments that we want a practice test or we want some way to see if we've captured everything or if we need to retake a module before we take the final exam. So that was something that was really important to us. And I think the applied learning course is very exciting and I hope will give learners just that extra level of confidence when they go into that final exam.

Kristin Jones, CLMS, PHR, SHRM-CP: Absolutely.

Heather Grimshaw: It's helpful to hear you both talk about that, and I like the reference to the controlled learning environment. So the opportunity to, as you've both said, apply that learning in a way that you really absorb it and feel more confident moving forward with it. Because as we all know, in leave management, what you don't know can hurt you, and it can hurt pretty badly. So that sounds very valuable. One of the things that I am kind of curious about is how this UPD affects or whether it affects people who have already taken and earned there.

Kristin Jones, CLMS, PHR, SHRM-CP: Certificate, people who are current designees and hold the CLMS certification, or even people who are currently enrolled in the prior version of the course. Nothing changes for them, so those designations still stand. This is just kind of a New refreshed version of the course. The course content of the prior version is still a best in class training resource in our industry. I mean, there isn't another training like that. We've just taken that and built out the next version, the next iteration of that for going forward. But people who already hold their designation, those designations are still valid. It was still earned through an excellent training course and program. And people who are in that process, in the prior version of the course, same thing, they, they stay on course with that and complete the materials that they're currently enrolled in and end that process with the CLMS designation and continue through their standard recertification process every two years.

Heather Grimshaw: Perfect. Thank you so much for that. So Laura, I'm turning to you for this next question. I know that DMEC is working on a new educational offering that taps into an industry need, as we mentioned earlier, for targeted roles based training in workplace leave management.

I'm hoping you'll give listeners a sneak peek into what to expect and possibly share an estimate on when industry members can expect this release.

nning to launch that in early: 2026

So there's a lot of work for us to do. We are going to continue down this road and we're looking forward to getting that first program out and allowing people to experience that role based competency training.

o courses will be released in: 2026

Laura Boll, CLMS: Yes, that's the plan.

Heather Grimshaw: Okay, great. So Laura, I'm hoping that you'll share a little bit more information about the knowledge that people who take this stay at work and return to work specialist core competency training will walk away with and what the expectation is for, how it will change the way they work or approach their work.

Laura Boll, CLMS: Okay, so our goal is that participants will walk away with very practical, of course, role specific skills to manage stay at work and return to work programs effectively. So the training zeroes in on the core competencies to succeed in the role. Examples would be understanding the specific processes and why it matters for workforce management,

using proactive strategies to keep employees productive while managing health conditions, working closely, collaborating with HR managers, healthcare providers and other stakeholders to make accommodations smooth and make transitions smooth for the employee and applying what they learned through the training course through real world scenarios so that they can put the concepts into practice right away. We have incorporated or are incorporating several training resources that they can download, print off and use as desk references, you know, right away. Even if they're not finished with the course, they can take those and put those into practice right away. So really the goal with the competency training is to not only just identify the core competencies for a successful person in that role, but to really give them the skills and knowledge to put those skills into practice. So the goal is to, you know, move them from reacting to problems to planning ahead. And then we show them examples of how to do that and give them tools to help them do that. The overall goal with the stay at work return to work training is cutting down on unnecessary absences and boosting compliance and employee well being. We are, as we mentioned earlier, you know, moving into that focus on stay at work as opposed to return to work. That's an emerging priority in the industry driven by the need to reduce costs and retain talent. Traditionally, employers concentrated on the return to work after an absence, but now the emphasis is preventing leave altogether whenever possible through early intervention and accommodation. There are some several statistics out there about why it's important to focus on stay at work from the Department of Labor and the Social Security Administration.

Those statistics say that every year millions of US Workers face health issues that put their jobs at risk and about 4% end up reducing hours or leaving work. So that is a big has a big impact on employers throughout the country. Stay-at-work programs do really pay off. Research has showed that for every dollar invested, employers save about $8 to $10 through fewer absences and lower disability costs and higher productivity. And then companies with strong stay at work strategies and cultures see shorter absences, better retention and higher morale. And we're kind of looking at this as integrating the stay at work focus as a more like modern part of the integrated disability and absence management industry. One other really important aspect that we are considering and working into our training is that research shows that continuing to work and maintaining a regular routine while dealing with an injury or illness can have a positive aspect of a treatment plan for many conditions. So staying engaged in meaningful work supports mental health, reduces isolation, and can accelerate recovery. So that focus on stay at work helps make that a possibility by creating safe, sustainable accommodations that allow employers to remain productive at work while maintaining their health, their illness or their injury treatment.

Heather Grimshaw: That's really helpful data and valuable context. Thank you, Laura. One of the issues I have heard from industry leaders including Krystle Barnes-Iwediebo, the director of disability and absence management for New York Presbyterian Hospital and the first winner of the Kaleta Carruthers Innovation Award, is the need to shift from job task analyses and focus more on competency based analyses. I'm hoping you'll shed light on why this is important and how it's valuable for professionals and employers. And Laura, before you dive into this, I just want to mention that I'll share a link to the podcast with Krystle Barnes-Iwediebo during which she shares some valuable examples of how this work translates to positive outcomes for employers.

Laura Boll, CLMS: The shift is critical because when we think of traditional job task analyses that really focuses on what you do in a job position or an NA position, the specific tasks and duties tied to that job description. And that's important to understand. It's a useful tool to understand and understand how to do for identifying the actions required for a job, but it doesn't fully capture the skills and behaviors that drive success in any given role. Competency analysis goes deeper. It looks at both the what you do in a job and the how you do that job or how that job is performed, and the capabilities needed to really excel, giving equal weight to technical competencies, which are the job specific knowledge and skills that are needed to get the work done, and behavioral competencies, which are the interpersonal problem solving and adaptability skills that help professionals handle challenges and work well with each other. So we've all seen or known somebody who knows the nuts and bolts of a job but still doesn't really thrive in the role or wouldn't be considered a star in that position. And that's where competency based training comes in. It focuses both on the what and the how that job position. And it really does matter. The focus change is really important because for roles like the stay at work and return to work specialist success isn't just about knowing the laws or the rules or processes, those are the what, but it's about using good judgment, communicating well and influencing outcomes. So competency analysis, rather than just job task analysis, helps make sure that training builds these well rounded skills so professionals can adapt quickly and employers are ready for whatever comes next. For employers, what we have seen is the approach supports smarter hiring, focused development and stronger performance management. So they can take the competencies for a role and they can use those for interviewing professional development targets and performance management. For employees. It provides a clear roadmap for growth that matches what their employer expects or what the industry overall expects.

Kristin Jones, CLMS, PHR, SHRM-CP: I will just piggyback and say, you know, especially on that, on that last part that Laura mentioned about being able to use this information, this, this training and the identification of the competency models for each of these roles for, you know, other items like hiring and performance management and things like that that really I think moves the needle for, you know, organizations because I know coming from the human resources more broadly, you know, the HR industry myself a lot of times there's this kind of intrinsic knowledge or understanding of who we think would or wouldn't be good in a role, but it is a little bit more intangible. Most organizations have not done a true competency based analysis of their roles. It's a challenging thing to do and to know how to do well. And this really takes something that is always a little more intangible, a little bit more. When you get those hiring managers who kind of talk about that gut feel or they just seem like someone who would do this and it really puts some more structure around that, which I think is a really big step forward for the roles in our industry. And you know, frankly, we didn't know how to do that kind of assessment either. Our education team here at DMEC actually went through a really structured training process ourselves to learn how to identify competencies for a role in a really structured way and to do it accurately and then to create the competency model for these roles. And then we built that out and created the training that supports that. So, you know, we took that on so that we could put this training together for our industry and so that each organization out there doesn't have to do that. I'm really excited about that and the possibilities that come with that and where organizations and employees can take that from there and where we can take it as far as like resources we provide and things like that as well. So I just think this opens a whole new door and a whole new pathway for everybody in our industry.

Heather Grimshaw: That's fantastic. Thank you both. Tagging into that concept of opening new doors and new pathways. I'm going to widen our scope a little bit for this next question for both of you. As machine learning and artificial intelligence play a larger role in leave management circles,

how does education and specifically certificates and credential programs help professionals retain a competitive edge?

Kristin Jones, CLMS, PHR, SHRM-CP: Or does it, I think machine learning, artificial intelligence, I mean it, it's here, it's been here, it's here to stay. It's, we're all just figuring out how to work with it in a way that is compliant, in a way that is ethical and, and helps rather than hinders. So I do think it's, it's a really useful tool for folks in our space. It can, it can take on kind of a lot of administrative things, helping take information and structure it into a checklist or an email or a clear message. Especially in an industry like ours where there is a lot of jargon, a lot of language and acronyms that lay people don't necessarily understand, tools like this can be wonderful for helping us to ensure we're clearly communicating these things with employees. And that's really helpful, I think, where we need to be really, really cautious. Well, there's a lot of areas, but one that I'll focus in specifically that I think is related to your question is it's a pathway that's filled with a lot of liability if you try to use artificial intelligence as a compliance tool. I think we've all heard about things like hallucinations and inaccurate information and frankly it doesn't necessarily know. Unless you have more of like a container AI where it's only pulling from trusted resources that you know are feeding into it and you know that those are accurate. Generally speaking, if you're just plugging something into an AI tool that's out on the Internet and asking it a compliance based question, you don't know that its source material is accurate or up to date. It may have at one time been accurate, but you don't know if it currently is. And frankly you don't even know if it was ever accurate. So where I think that really ties in with having professionals at the wheel who are well educated. And I think what's great about certifications is to typically there's a recertification structure to that that ensure you're keeping up on your education and knowledge base. But I think where that ties together is it really does take a discerning eye to recognize the accuracy of that type of information, knowing where the pitfalls are and knowing where and how to source information and to go out there and pull things together to either confirm or refute what you're finding or to bypass that and use it in different ways so that you're not having, or you're not trying to use it from a compliance standpoint. Because I just don't think the tools we have at scale are there yet to be comfortably used in that capacity. I think it brings a lot of risk with it. And so I think it is not a replacement for trained, educated, credentialed professionals in the space. And I think sometimes it takes that trained, educated professional to realize the difference.

Laura Boll, CLMS: I agree with that 100%. I was just telling Kristen this the other day that I was listening to a different podcast and it was the guest was a writer who said that he does use AI, but he uses it as a tool to do his work. He doesn't do it use it to do the writing of his text. But he gave some really practical advice for using those, I guess, more generic AI tools that we might all have access to.

And he gave four things that he puts in every prompt that he, when he's looking for information, he will type in these four things in the prompt to make sure that he's doing as much due diligence as he can up front before he just, you know, pulls the information and starts using it or relying on it. But basically those four things are literally telling your AI engine to not, don't lie to me, only provide information that's been fact checked, only provide information that can be cited, and then always provide sources or citations. So that's really practical information that can, you know, anybody can start to use. And then once you start to use it, the AI system that you use frequently should start learning your specifications and you'll be more likely to get what you're looking for. And the results hopefully will be more reliable. Now that, of course, would need to be followed up by that, you know, human fact check and checking all of those things on your own. But at least starting with those practical things in the prompt, it hopefully will weed out some of the just random information that might be, you know, pulled in from whatever source it would pull it from if you weren't putting some specifications around what you're looking for.

Heather Grimshaw: Thank you Laura. I appreciate those four tips. And speaking of tips, just to add in, we will include a link to the new DMEC AI Think Tank White paper that was released very recently by DMEC and PERKY. The title is Defining Ethical and Effective Workforce Integration, which ties into both what Laura just shared as well as what Kristen shared with us. So we'll include that link in the notes section. So to pull us full circle here, the last question that I have for the two of you today is really more about upskilling, which is frequently discussed as a powerful recruitment and retention tool for employers.

This has historically been perceived as a benefit for employees and I'm wondering if that perspective is changing. Specifically in leave management, where change is a constant and lack of knowledge, as we've said throughout our conversation today, carries an increasingly high price tag.

Kristin Jones, CLMS, PHR, SHRM-CP: I don't think that employees currently view upskilling and professional development as a perk. I think it is viewed as an expectation from their employers. And I won't repeat the stats, but I think it goes back to those statistics that I quoted earlier from the survey that we did last year where respondents reflected on how important it was to them and how likely they are to leave a position or make a selection of a role or a position or an organization based on those opportunities. I also think, just as you said, kind of led into in the question, the compliance aspect to our industry, frankly doesn't allow it to be a perk if we're not providing, if organizations aren't providing those opportunities and that culture for for training and upskilling and professional development, the risk is that they've got employees who are not keeping current on their education and knowledge. And in a compliance based industry that's catastrophic. So it is genuinely in our industry, especially a requirement of the job to stay educated and up to date. So in that regard I think there isn't really an option for employers not to provide that. But even outside of our compliance focused industry, I do think employees are expecting these opportunities from their employers just generally more holistically. We know employees are expecting more from their employers in a lot of facets, but I think this is one for sure and especially it does tie directly back to their ability to perform and excel in the roles. So I think these opportunities are more table stakes now and it's going to make the difference in whether or not you are able to hire and keep excellent top tier talent.

Heather Grimshaw: That's really helpful. Kristin, Laura, did you have anything you wanted to add in there?

Laura Boll, CLMS: I don't think specifically, I just really think Kristin hit the nail on the head with the fact that in a compliance based industry it's very important that it is an expectation on both sides of the employer and the employee. I think it's important to sometimes. One thing I think that is missed sometimes is the practical application of any type of professional development training that's mandated or provided to employees. Sometimes it's kind of just go through the motions and go to the training, but it's not expected for them to show that they have learned something new or retained information from that in their everyday job. So I think a little more focus in some cases could be placed on, you know, after the training has been completed. How are we applying this to the job, especially in a compliance based industry.

Heather Grimshaw: I really appreciate the opportunity to hear you both talk a little bit about that pathway and the investment from employers as well as that confidence building element to education and then that practical application piece. So thank you both so much for your time today and again for listeners, please check the Notes section for links to some of the sources that were provided here and additional information.

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