Are you someone that prioritizes constantly taking care of other people, resulting in a lack of care for yourself?

That’s one habit leaders need to be cautious of. If you forget to heal yourself, then you’ll become depleted and tired physically, mentally, and emotionally.

Through personal experience as a fire chief leading through tragedies, Danny Johnson reminds us of the importance of taking care of yourself.

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Host

You're listening to the No Grey Areas podcast with Patrick McCalla. Today's guest is Danny Johnson, fire chief for Verde Valley Fire District. Danny focuses on cleaning yourself and others through tragedies. Let's dove in.

Patrick McCalla

Danny Johnson, Welcome to the Nogueras Podcast. You and I have been friends for a lot of years. In fact, you were a fireman. There was a sergeant with the police department and I was a pastor. We used to have coffee once a month, right?

Patrick McCalla

Yes, we did. So it almost sounds like a start of a joke. A fireman, a cop and a pastor walk into a coffee shop and we should finish it. But it was always awkward. You remember.

Danny Johnson

Those days because.

Patrick McCalla

You guys were in uniform and people would come up to us and they'd be like, Man, thank you for your service. Can can we buy you something? And then they'd look at me and be like, What do you do?

Patrick McCalla

And I'm like, I'm a pastor. And they were like.

Danny Johnson

OK. And they didn't know what to do with that.

Danny Johnson

Yes. And you got to benefit from those relationships.

Danny Johnson

Yes, I did. I did.

Patrick McCalla

So we're going to talk about leading through tragedy today, and we'll get into that in a moment. I don't want anybody to click off right now and go, I'm not a leader, because if everyone has to lead at times, you have to lead yourself.

Patrick McCalla

You have to lead your family. You have to if your teacher, you're leading your classroom. So we all lead at times, but you, as as our listeners, are going to find out you've had to deal with leading through tragedy this last year in a huge way and a new job.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, it's uh, it's been issued a little bit about my background as I 22 years in the fire service and.

Patrick McCalla

Where was it was?

Danny Johnson

I did 20 years at a small department in North Phenix area called Daisy Mountain.

Danny Johnson

And then can I back up? Yeah. Absolutely.

Patrick McCalla

Because we got a back up and go.

Danny Johnson

So we're going back up to you.

Patrick McCalla

You played sports in high school. You're pretty good, right? You had a chance. Go play at the college level.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, that was a long time ago.

Danny Johnson

I know those I know, but that those skills are part of the story.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, I was really passionate about football and, you know, had opportunity to go do that right after high school and a couple of injuries and some poor leadership decisions along the way ended up coming back in the beginning of my career.

Patrick McCalla

Sounds like I need to have you on another.

Danny Johnson

Podcast about.

Danny Johnson

Poor decisions. Yeah, man.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, we all have those in our life.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, so why? But what made you want to go in is a is a fire Furman? Well, fire person once called nowadays.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, yeah.

Danny Johnson

It's all good, you know, you know you're getting that. So, you know, when I came back from and, you know, my college football career, I met my wife and at that time, her father was a captain with Phenix for apartment.

Danny Johnson

And yeah, he had that question that most fathers would have like, how do you intend on providing for my daughter? And you know, at one time I thought, maybe police officer, maybe I could be an engineer. I don't know.

Danny Johnson

But then he goes, No, you need to come with me, you. You need to spend some time with me. So I had the opportunity to go spend the day with him on his fire truck and Station ten in Phenix and ran a bunch of calls with him that day.

Danny Johnson

And from that point on, I was hooked, you know? Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

Was part of it. When you show up as a cop, most people don't want you there when you show up as a fire.

Danny Johnson

Person everywhere, you happen to.

Patrick McCalla

See you. But yeah, so but that connected with you, like you just knew that this is what I want to do.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, it just clicked and it just became clear and it just became a passion. And since that day, it's been everything that I've poured into and worked for.

Patrick McCalla

How many years total have you done between your first part and you came back? We'll get to that in a moment.

Danny Johnson

I just finished my 22nd year in.

Patrick McCalla

26, 22 years. Yeah. So you start off your work and you go up as you started what?

Danny Johnson

Yeah. I started as a reserve fireman, just volunteering my time and fortunate enough to get hired and work through the ranks of firefighter. Engineer went to paramedic school, was a captain promoted into the chief ranks as a division chief and a deputy chief.

Danny Johnson

And then this opportunity last year in March presented itself to be the fire chief of the fire district. And that's kind of where I am now. It's a small fire district in the Camp Verde Cottonwood Corn Ville, Clarksdale area and in Verde Valley.

Patrick McCalla

It's so interesting because when we first started meeting for coffee, whatever almost a decade ago or whatever, we were meeting because we were talking because I was in second chair of leadership. You were at the time and we were talking about how do you lead from the second chair?

Patrick McCalla

That's where we would meet and talk about. Yeah. Now you're in the first chair, so you wouldn't even you wouldn't show up at the coffee shop anymore.

Danny Johnson

Which, you know, enjoyed it. Yeah, yeah.

Patrick McCalla

So, so you did that for a while. You stepped away for a short time, though. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Danny Johnson

And you know, I took a little break. You know, sometimes leadership can drain on you, and sometimes you need time to reflect, right? You need time just to look at the decisions that you made as a leader and the failures that you've had as a leader and figure out where you can grow and where you can change

Danny Johnson

and where you can make a difference using those experiences good and bad and kind of refocus. So I did take a little time away from being a chief still engaged in the fire service. And you know, I worked for a company that builds fire stations and I was able to make an impact and help a lot of

Danny Johnson

chiefs and departments that were looking at building fire stations and making them safer and cleaner environments for our firefighters to work in.

Patrick McCalla

But that's another interesting part of your story, right, so you were in your early twenties when you when you started, yes, right? Yeah. And you're like, This is what I want to do. Yeah. And I knew you at the time when you stepped away from it.

Patrick McCalla

And really, at the time, you're like, I'm done with this. Had a great career. Loved it. I'm going to move on to some. But in your time away, you found out you still loved. Yes. Missed it. Wanted to be back.

Danny Johnson

Absolutely. In my time away, like you said, it gave me time to reflect and and look back and it gave me time to refuel as a leader. I mean, sometimes you just get drained and things just weigh on you, you know, and tragedies and just life and and responsibilities.

Danny Johnson

So it really gave.

Patrick McCalla

Specialist first responders. Absolutely. When you're dealing with life and death, things difficult things you've seen.

Danny Johnson

Yeah. So it gave me a chance to step away and find my passion again. And really, when it came down to it, you know, my passion was leading and impacting people, and I wasn't able to do that in the position I was.

Danny Johnson

So I said, you know, it's time to start looking for a place to come back.

Patrick McCalla

So you end up coming back your fire chief now? Yes. But but in this comes into the topics we want to talk about today. You stepping into a new department, a new position, all the stuff you have to learn any time you step into something new like that.

Patrick McCalla

But then you immediately are dealing with your very first year with some major tragedies, right?

Danny Johnson

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. You know, any first year fire chief or CEO or president or pastor, you know that first year you're learning budget, you're learning culture, you're learning anything you can about that organization, you're flipping rocks and finding surprises under every rock.

Patrick McCalla

That's something that the former chief.

Danny Johnson

Didn't tell you.

Danny Johnson

Every, every leader has to do that their first year and that and that's part of that tough first year for me. You know, it was just a crazy situation, a lot of different circumstances where, you know, I had three, you know, major news stories and tragedies, and they seemed to kind of get progressively worse.

Danny Johnson

Each one followed the next and through that year. So, you know, a couple of months into my stint as the fire chief, we had a twelve hundred acre brush fire that was the largest brush fire in that community's history, ripped right through the middle of town.

Danny Johnson

And we had evacuations of people and houses and animals. And there was there was no loss of life. There was no. We managed to save all the structures just thanks to heroic efforts and and some things that the guys were able to do on that initial attack that that saved it.

Danny Johnson

But it started that little bit of panic in the community and the little bit of tragedy in the community because it impacted their lives and it changed the direction of a lot of people what their day to day activity, where they lost property.

Danny Johnson

I mean, fortunately, nobody lost lives. So that was our first tragic event.

Patrick McCalla

How long have you been? Fire chief was that.

Danny Johnson

I was fire chief about.

Danny Johnson

three months. Yeah, you're definitely.

Patrick McCalla

Still flipping rocks, trying to figure out. Oh yeah. And then boom, this happened. Yeah, what's this? So what's the second tragedy?

Danny Johnson

So about a month later, you know, I was sitting with my wife and I get a text message and says, Hey, we've got a pretty significant water rescue going on in our community and our guys are on scene.

Danny Johnson

Unfortunately, at that time, there was a 16 year old girl that was swept away in that flood. And unfortunately, you know, she didn't make it, and four days later, we were able to find her body. But the impact that that had on a four day campaign of a search and rescue effort that you're dealing with thousands of

Danny Johnson

volunteers, you're dealing with multiple agencies, you're dealing with a grieving family. And there was a personal aspect to this one as well. At this point, the the young girl that perished. Unfortunately, her grandfather was the fire chief that I replaced.

Danny Johnson

Mm-Hmm. So there was a relationship there. Yeah, there is a relationship with the community because it is such a small community. Yeah. And then there's also grieving of the firefighters that were first on scene that couldn't do anything that didn't that had no opportunity to do what they want to do and save people.

Danny Johnson

Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

So they're halfway.

Danny Johnson

Through. So we're dealing through, we're working through that.

Patrick McCalla

And on multiple.

Danny Johnson

Levels.

Patrick McCalla

And let me just jump in because someone who doesn't that maybe didn't live in a in a small community. Yeah, if you grew up in like a Phenix or in L.A. or Chicago, I don't understand. Like so when you're dealing with this girl, everyone knows her.

Danny Johnson

Oh, yeah, but.

Patrick McCalla

It it's it's not like someone you see on the news in the name. And you know, when you live in Phenix and it's like, wow, a 16 year old girl died last night. Like, That's sad. Yeah, but when when everyone knows her and they've grown up with her?

Patrick McCalla

And so that's that's the that's what you're dealing with in that community.

Danny Johnson

Absolutely. And her family's been ingrained in that community for decades. Yeah. And you know, her her mother and father are, you know, figures in that community and her uncle worked for a neighboring fire department that was actually on scene that night.

Danny Johnson

So there was just so many tragic and heartbreaking. Elements to that story that you know, you're having to look at that from multiple different angles.

Patrick McCalla

I want to I want to get back to that in a moment because you're I can't imagine like as a fire chief now again, you're still trying to figure out culture and all the different things you have to do as a new leader.

Patrick McCalla

But now on on on multiple facets you're trying to deal with, you know, like you said, multiple agencies working together. You got you have some of your guys that are grieving over not being able to save her. You have a community.

Patrick McCalla

I mean, all those things. But what was the third tragedy then? So boom, you get hit with this fire, then you get hit with losing this girl. And then.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, so then, you know, a few months later, in October, unfortunately, we lost a firefighter. We lost a firefighter in the line of duty death. You know, our firefighter died from COVID. He transported two COVID patients in October and a couple of days later became extremely sick and contracted COVID.

Danny Johnson

And then about 14 days later, he ended up dying in the hospital.

Patrick McCalla

Fairly young guy. Yeah.

Danny Johnson

35 years old. And you know, he left behind a wife and a five year old son and just an entire grieving organization of friends and family. And once again, it's a small community, and he grew up in that community.

Danny Johnson

So the ties and the emotions run bigger than just the people that are initially impacted by that loss of relationship.

Patrick McCalla

Everybody in that community is grieving, and I just saw on social media this last week where you, as a department went over the little boy was turning six, right? Yeah. And you guys all showed up at his school.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, I mean, that's what I love about first responders, police and fire. You all are so good at that kind of thing of like walking with those families. Yeah. And that's part of the leading now, right? Like, it's not that he's no longer with you.

Patrick McCalla

You guys still have responsibility that family and you're leading through that too.

Danny Johnson

Yeah. And that's the one thing I think that's unique about, you know, tragedies is as the leaders, a lot of times when the initial events over, you're still leading through it. When everybody goes away, you know, as a leader, you're still leading the family through it, you're still leading the organization through it when nobody else wants to

Danny Johnson

really hear about it on the news or anything like that. But it was a really awesome experience to be able to take this. This young man who turned six years old and surround him by the firefighters that his dad worked with and celebrate his birthday with his class and just make it special for him.

Danny Johnson

And you know, we got messages from his mom and his teacher later on that day that all he did was talk about this is his best birthday ever, and those are the things where you can really make a positive impact on people while you're leading.

Patrick McCalla

Well, I'll tell you, anybody who saw the pictures know the kid wasn't joking. Yeah, that big old smile on his face and your whole team with him and everything. There's there's a lot of things we can jump into, and we had talked about some of these questions.

Patrick McCalla

I'm going to I'm going to throw one out that we didn't even talk about. But I think it's so important because again, sometimes people listen to this and go, I'm not a leader. I don't know if this really applies to me.

Patrick McCalla

But again, you all of us are leading. At some point, all of us go through tragedy ourselves at times, you know, we've lost a loved one or we lost a job or whatever that might be, and we have to lead ourselves.

Patrick McCalla

But let me ask you a question that I didn't even throw your way.

Danny Johnson

Oh yeah. Surprise. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

How? How do you how do you do self-care during that? Because this is especially especially like you were that you're at the top of the leadership team in the department that you were in with the fire department there and you're dealing with all this stuff and you can't deal with your own stuff, right?

Patrick McCalla

Yet you kind of put that aside for a little while. All first responders have to deal with that in some ways. How do you do that?

Danny Johnson

It's funny that you go there because that was actually one of the sections that on the areas that I felt we need to improve or towards the end, things that I think I could do better or advice. And you know, one of the thing as the leader that you forget to do a lot of times is you're

Danny Johnson

you're taking care of everybody else, you're taking care of the hurting. You're taking care of the the people in your organization that need the help or the family that's impacted. But you forget to take care of yourself. And I think there's an it's not just physically, it's mentally, it's emotionally because you give give, give, give give and

Danny Johnson

you're depleted and then you start having the effects of that. And then the other thing that you kind of fail to do in my wife can probably attest to this is you forget them as well, and you forget the impact of the tragedy has on your family as the leader.

Danny Johnson

And you not only impact yourself, but you start impacting the relationship of those that are closest to you.

Patrick McCalla

Patrick Clancy only wrote a new book, and I know a lot of our conversations we bring up like five dysfunctions of a team you wrote that wrote another one about, you know, what kind of employees you get, people that are hungry, humble, humble and smart.

Patrick McCalla

But his recent book, he says, I wish I would have written this one first because it's why someone should lead it, which is really a question you need to ask if you can't answer why you shouldn't even be leading.

Patrick McCalla

And what I've loved about you, Danny, in the in the decade that I've known you is you've really lived this out. And he talks about if you're not there to serve, that's what a leader is, is a leader, someone who is serving.

Patrick McCalla

And so you you live that out so well. But that's what you're saying. The difficulty is if you're. If you're a good leader and you're about serving, you're serving your team, you sometimes forget, though, that I got to take care of myself too, otherwise I'm not gonna be able to to serve them well.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And were the first ones tell I can skip this. You know, I don't have to plan my meals. I can just pick something up on the way because I got to get to this meeting.

Danny Johnson

Or, you know, I don't. I'm tired. I need to sleep in. I don't need to go work out. You know, it's all the same excuses that sounds so good because we validate it because we're helping others. Yeah, right.

Danny Johnson

We validate our own neglect because we're helping others in these tragedies.

Patrick McCalla

And that's such great advice because that goes to a parent, you know, like a mom with a bunch of little kids or something. Sometimes she's just like, I just don't have time to do this other stuff. And what ends up happening is she becomes very unhealthy mentally, emotionally, and then she's not going to be as good a

Patrick McCalla

mom. She's not going to be able to lead her family as well. So it's such a great advice there. So what? What are obviously you had to lead through some tragedy this last year? What are some challenges that you faced in leading through tragedy?

Patrick McCalla

And again, this is great advice because all of us are going to have to do this. We've done it in the past. We have to do it again in the future.

Danny Johnson

Well, I think for me, some of these tragedies that were that were interesting is because they were so public, right? All these made the news. I was doing national news stories. I was providing updates on all of our social media accounts and we were providing the information.

Danny Johnson

And I think managing that information and managing reliable information was a huge challenge when you're dealing with tragedy inside your organization and external because people are watching it. So I just think that, you know, one of the challenges for me was making sure we were given accurate information because and sometimes we didn't have information to give.

Danny Johnson

And when you're not when you don't have new information to give or you keep saying the same thing over and over again, sometimes people begin to question, they begin to question what you're doing. Are you really telling us the truth?

Danny Johnson

Are you really doing everything that you can do? And as a leader, when you're pouring your heart and soul into these events and you start getting questions, it can really take its toll on you emotionally. So I think just manage that information.

Danny Johnson

And when there is a tragedy, people are hungry for information. We're in a society where everybody wants to know and they want to know now and when they don't get it, they fill in those gaps with rumors. They fill in those gaps with their own interpretation of the story.

Danny Johnson

Or even sometimes people take advantage of those situations.

Patrick McCalla

It's just heartbreaking to and to give you an example right there. The thing you dealt with was that young lady, that 16 year old. It was four days.

Danny Johnson

four.

Patrick McCalla

Days. Yeah. So everybody's wondering they're waiting for information. And I remember when you talked about on a national scale, you know, especially anybody in Greater Phenix, this was on the news every night. Mm-Hmm. And they're wanting information. Yeah, they need information.

Patrick McCalla

You don't have some of that know you guys are looking to. Yeah.

Danny Johnson

Yeah. Every morning, you know, as part of our morning routine, we'd be prepping for news briefings and making sure that we have the the most accurate information. And that was stressful because sometimes we had things that we thought we knew, but we didn't.

Danny Johnson

We couldn't confirm it. But when you're disseminating information on a tragedy like this, you have to be accurate and you have to be reliable. It just it goes to against your credibility if you don't give them accurate information.

Patrick McCalla

You know, what's interesting on that is we just had a guy on a couple of weeks ago on this podcast, and he was talking about trust and leadership, and he brought up the fact that one of the most difficult things with leadership and trust is information.

Patrick McCalla

So it goes very much in line with what you're saying is that that is such a big part in trusting leaders, trusting up to leaders and leaders, trusting down that information. And he was saying that as something grows in an organization, is going to work before doesn't work anymore.

Patrick McCalla

So you're always trying to figure that out, aren't you?

Danny Johnson

Yeah, you are. And I think one of the misconceptions and things of mistakes that we make sometimes leading to tragedy is the assumption that because we're in a position of leadership, we have all the information and we have all the answers when we don't, right, we don't always have the information.

Danny Johnson

So we've got to be able to know the people in our organization, in our community and be humble enough to ask, right, ask the questions. Yeah, gather the information so you can get a better picture.

Patrick McCalla

You know, type.

Danny Johnson

Event.

Patrick McCalla

I'm smiling when you said that because again, I'm trying to get our listeners to understand, Hey, you may not be a fire chief. Yeah, you may not run an organization with supplies to you. And right, when you started saying that, you don't have all the information.

Patrick McCalla

My mind flashback is, you know, my my three children are all adults now, but my mind flashed back to a time where I was laying in the one of my kids because they did and have all the information.

Danny Johnson

I was completely wrong and I was like telling them, You know, man, you're grounded for a month and blah.

Patrick McCalla

And if I would have just paused and waited and gotten, all the information would have completely changed your story.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, exactly.

Patrick McCalla

But you're saying in leadership, so often we think we have it as leaders, but we we may not. You may not. And that takes the humility that yeah.

Danny Johnson

And you have to ask, yeah, and be humble enough and to hear the answer that you may not want to hear. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

That's the big part is yet to hear an answer you may not want to hear. Yeah, yeah. Are there things that if you could go in and I'm just trying to learn from your situation, are there things that you would?

Patrick McCalla

Do differently or that you learned. From this.

Danny Johnson

I guess the things that one of the things I learned, I think that as a leader and I should have known this, but I must have forgot it, right? As a leader, your circle of impact is bigger than you really realize, right?

Danny Johnson

And during these events, you know, I felt like we were giving good information. I felt like we were getting the accurate information out and getting direct information to the people that need to hear it. But there's always people on the peripheral of these events that you don't necessarily always think about.

Danny Johnson

Just give you a kind of a story about why that why that rang true with me at the end of this four day campaign, right? That we're dealing with this, this young girl that died. I was at that school.

Danny Johnson

We were at a high school in the local area every day for four days, giving information, giving updates, and we had just given the final press conference and that we found her body and the event was coming to an end and we were winding down and they had two football players from that high school.

Danny Johnson

In tears come up to me at the end of that whole event and just give me a hug. And I just was want to know what the deal was and they just wanted to. They just wanted to thank me because they said, You know what?

Danny Johnson

We were only getting our information from you, and we appreciate the fact that you were sharing information about our friend. And you were giving us the stuff that we needed to hear to help us get through that. I had no idea.

Patrick McCalla

You were never doing a press conference for that. You were talking to the high school.

Danny Johnson

No, not even a bit. And the other thing is, I'm talking about the death of our firefighter, right? I'm dealing with the family and I'm dealing with his wife, and I'm dealing with his child and his family and my firefighters.

Danny Johnson

one of the things I forgot about was the wives of the firefighters that are still there. And I had multiple wives come up during the after funeral and during the services, and just thank me and thank our organization for taking the time to care for their husbands and make sure that they were OK.

Danny Johnson

And they felt that they had an organization and a leadership team that cares about them. And it made them feel better and more comfortable as the spouse of the public safety, knowing that their husbands worked in that type of environment.

Patrick McCalla

Man, that's so good, Danny, because I think that's true. Or any time we're leading something, we have no idea. The sphere of influence is what you're saying. A parent has no idea that when they when they choose to parent, well, that that's going to impact two or three generations teacher who teaches well or a coach, you coach

Patrick McCalla

as well and is leading well in those where areas, they have no idea that the influence they're having on those kids are is going to impact maybe their children and their children's children and children's children. And in your case, you don't know you were talking to a football team, know or you didn't.

Patrick McCalla

You were thinking about the people in your department, but also you realize, man, it goes into their families. Yeah, it's having an impact. So to always keep that in mind, that sphere of influence is, is there anything else you'd say on that?

Danny Johnson

Well, I guess the other thing that I thought would really ring true in the things that I learned about that was as the leader, be willing to be vulnerable, right? Be willing to. Share your hurts. Share your fear.

Danny Johnson

Share your pain, because so many times I think, you know we can cope. We come robotic as leaders, right? I am the leader. I can't show any emotion. I have to get through.

Patrick McCalla

This because sometimes we take those as weakness.

Danny Johnson

Yes, we we. Yeah, it's not. It's not a weakness. No. And if you're not careful, careful about showing your vulnerabilities, it'll sneak up on you. For me, right, there was a couple of times, you know, I had, you know, during this, this event, this four day event when we were searching for this girl, I had multiple firefighters

Danny Johnson

in my office just pouring their hearts out in tears and just devastated. And I was taking that on, taking that on, taking that on and helping and encouraging and leading them through this because that's my job. But I love it.

Danny Johnson

I'm not complaining about it. But what I didn't realize is I was about to go be part of a community prayer vigil. And some of the community leaders asked me to come up and pray on behalf of public safety.

Danny Johnson

I got about seven words into that prayer.

Patrick McCalla

The dam broke.

Danny Johnson

And praying for my public safety, firefighters and the police that were hurting. And I lost it. And initially, I'm going, Oh, what did I just do? But you know, the feedback and the the the the input that I got from other community leaders is that, you know what?

Danny Johnson

You came off like a human being. And if anything else, as a leader, you need to be a human being. You need to be first of all.

Patrick McCalla

And that in some ways, that shifted in the last few cultures. Oh yeah. I think there was a time where where leaders were supposed to be like, You don't show that you don't. Yeah. But I think we do live in a time where even the younger generations behind you and I, they long for that.

Patrick McCalla

They were wrong to see a leader who will be transparent and and honest, and they recognize they they aren't perfect and not that like like losing it in that prayer that doesn't show imperfection. That actually shows that you care, that you had empathy, that you had compassion.

Patrick McCalla

Yes.

Danny Johnson

And I think in public safety, we're getting there. You know, that's been one of those huge cultural shifts in public safety in general that you have to be tough. You can't show emotion. You can't let these things get to you.

Danny Johnson

That was what it used to be. And we're realizing the effects in our industry of how damaging that can be because we managed tragedies every day. Yeah, we're day in, day out, we're managing tragedies. And if you don't have things we talked about to make you healthy.

Danny Johnson

There's some really long term effects that can have on you as a person.

Patrick McCalla

So. Well, I remember one of our coffee meetings we had back in the day when a cop and a firefighter and a pastor walked into a coffee shop. one of the conversations we had it was a book in a and I think a speaker that you heard at a conference and they were talking about.

Patrick McCalla

first responders are one of them, but they they take on stuff and then they don't have enough time off. They don't have enough break to like, let that go and then they go back to work and they take a bit more.

Patrick McCalla

So it's almost like layer after layer after layer. This builds. Yeah, sometimes it takes a decade, sometimes takes a couple of years, maybe a couple of months. Well, eventually that's going to break.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, exactly.

Patrick McCalla

Come out in unhealthy ways, then.

Danny Johnson

Yeah. And there's science behind it. And this is way too much for us to talk science of the.

Patrick McCalla

Either you saying that.

Danny Johnson

No, but there's doctors that understand this stuff, but there is medical science behind that levels of stress and never stabilizing and the effects it can have on you psychologically and physically in your families. So yeah, it's a huge it's a huge issue.

Patrick McCalla

And again, this is where it fits. It's not just first responders, but you know, if there's someone listening who maybe they just, you know, you had a move, you had a job change, you had kids moving out, you had a loss of loved.

Patrick McCalla

If all this stuff is happening at once, you've got to figure out how you're going to stop and help take care of yourself because it's going to be like we just as humans, we can't handle all of that.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, without taking some time. So this isn't just a conversation with about first responders.

Danny Johnson

No, this is part of this deal with stress in life.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, yeah. So what do you think are some mistakes that are often made when we're leading through tragedy? I'm not talking about what you guys did, but what are mistakes that are often made by people that have to lead to tragedy?

Danny Johnson

Well, I think we talked a little bit about, you know, you know, forgetting to take care of yourself. Here's one of the things that I think I've mistakes that I've made when I'm watching other people go through tragedy, right?

Danny Johnson

So many times are peers, other fire chiefs that I know of, and I'm sure people in your life that you know, that are going through tragedy. Right? What I have done and what I've failed to do and mistakes that I've made is not reaching out to them, right?

Danny Johnson

So many times that I'm going through when I was going through those events, a simple phone call from a friend, a text message that just a little bit notes of encouragement. Those were so timely throughout all these events and encouraging that those were the times that got you through the really hard parts.

Danny Johnson

Right? So I think if you know somebody that's dealing with tragedy, you know, somebody that's going through a hard time and you know about it, encourage them.

Patrick McCalla

That's such good practical advice because again, every listener right now, I can guarantee you they know someone who's gone through something. Just so you're just saying just reach out, shoot them a little text message or something, let them know that you're thinking of them or you're praying for them, whatever.

Danny Johnson

And tell them they don't have to respond. You don't, you don't. I don't want to burden you. You don't need to respond. But I just want you to know that we're thinking about, you are praying about it. We're praying for you.

Danny Johnson

We're encouraging you. We're here. If you need you. Yeah. And it means the world for somebody that's going through a lot of this stuff.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. As great practical advice. So. So that would be one. What are what are some what's another one that you think that our mistakes sometimes that are made?

Danny Johnson

Well, you know, as we were kind of talking about, there's no gray areas podcast that I was I was thinking about, you know, leading and leading to tragedy and where the gray areas in that. And you know, I thought about, you know, some of the tragedies that were in our gray areas because we don't understand them, right

Danny Johnson

? They don't make sense to us. We can't rationalize them with their human mind why they did that. You know, when we're managing a tragedy so many times in our world, we have policies, we have procedures, we have everything to walk.

Danny Johnson

You step by step on how to deal with the tragedy, right? When you deal with the energy, you're managing the process, when you're leading to tragedy. It's people centric, right? You're leading.

Patrick McCalla

People. And again, that's good. That's good.

Danny Johnson

I don't know if I can remember it again.

Danny Johnson

Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

When you're managing your managing process.

Danny Johnson

When you're managing a tragedy, you're managing a process, you're managing. This is this is the step by step process and how we make through this event.

Patrick McCalla

Number one, number two, number three, OK.

Danny Johnson

But when you're leading, when you're leading an organization and you're leading people through tragedy, that's people centric, right? That is impacting people. And I think when I was looking back on that, the gray area in leading to tragedy, I to me is what you're doing pre tragedy, right?

Danny Johnson

How are you leading? Prior to the tragedy? Are you impacting the organization? Are you a servant leader prior to the tragedy? Have you built that trust factor with your lead, with your organization as a leader? Are you pouring into them pre tragedy?

Danny Johnson

The more that you have that going on before a tragedy happens? And I believe that the more positive impact you can have on the people at the end of the tragedy, because all about leadership is impacting people, right?

Danny Johnson

Even through tragedy. It's our job as leaders to impact people in a way that makes a difference in their lives.

Patrick McCalla

We're not leading processes. We're leading people. Yeah. Always, always. Even when we're leading processes or processes have to do with people. So it's always leading people. But man, it's so good. What you're saying, though, is what you do before.

Patrick McCalla

Because again, we're talking about leading leading through tragedy. And what you're saying is you've got to back up like the most important. You've got to back up. If if all you can talk about is leading through tragedy, you're going to miss because the most important stuff is what happened before that to the weeks or the months or

Patrick McCalla

the years, however long you've been there. Yeah, you've done that. You've. Yeah. And what are you think are the key things that have to be done prior to that tragedy that are so important? Like, what are some of those.

Danny Johnson

Things, man? I would say 100%, is your actions right? You can have this. one of the things is people remember your actions, right? You can have all the eloquent words. You can have everything that people want to say in front of a camera and well-written out and and great great information, in your words.

Danny Johnson

But people forget what you say, but I really think they remember what you do. They remember how you treat them. Yeah, and they remember the sentiment of how you helped them through a tragedy or help them through a process or just were there for them when they needed it.

Patrick McCalla

The old adage do as I say, not as I do. It doesn't work in this way. If that's what you've been doing as a leader. Yeah, it's when tragedy hits you. You have no capital with them.

Danny Johnson

No. And if that's the type of leader that we're still dealing with in today's culture with all the information that we have, unfortunately, that's a leader that doesn't want to lead.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, what what kind of culture because you brought that up before. It is one of the things that you're learning. So what what kind of culture you trying to develop up there? So you're in you're in year two now, right?

Danny Johnson

We just we're just get ready to start year two. Yes, hopefully it's ready to go. We're going to we're going to make some changes.

Danny Johnson

A lot of stuff that.

Patrick McCalla

You've had to deal with. So in year one, what would you say that you're going this is the kind of culture that we want to have.

Danny Johnson

So it's funny that you ask that because this past year I've been having those conversations with an organizer with with the guys in the organization and the membership in our organization and and just, you know, asking them about culture.

Danny Johnson

And I think you can learn a lot about culture in that type of organization that you walking into when you start asking those questions early on.

Patrick McCalla

So I got a pause here for a second because I don't want to miss. I don't want anybody to miss what you're saying. I think that's so key. So you came in and you started asking.

Danny Johnson

Absolutely.

Patrick McCalla

You were asking questions.

Danny Johnson

Yeah. And that's one of the things that you know, that I had made sure that we were intentional in our conversations with every member of the organization asking questions about what's important. If you ask somebody what you value, what I found is they don't know a lot of times unless they've spent some time thinking about you asking

Danny Johnson

that question, they don't know. But if you.

Patrick McCalla

To wake up and know, how do I really value, you know, they don't.

Danny Johnson

They're nothing. But if you ask those questions like, Well, what do you like about your job today or asking questions that get them to start speaking about what's? To them, yeah. And then over this year process, we've been able to, you know, really get an idea of what our organizational values are.

Danny Johnson

So it's funny, just our last staff meeting that we had last week and there's almost a year process. I've kind of been able to lay out what we've been able to settle on as our organizational values. And, you know, I didn't give them to them.

Danny Johnson

I didn't say, these are your values. It was all information based and it was.

Patrick McCalla

See, that's that's another I got it. I got a positive again, because that's such an important point that you're saying if you went in as a new fire chief and everyone was fired and you're just bringing in new people, in some ways you could go, here's our here's our values.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, or say, here's our values, I'm go hire people for that. But because you're coming into an organization with human beings already there, you're having to do it a little differently where you're going. If I just tell them what our values are, you're losing a lot.

Danny Johnson

There's no buy in.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, there's no buy in. So. So you spent the last year really trying to figure out what do they value, what's important to them, what's important to you're building your values, then off of that.

Danny Johnson

Of their feedback, their input. And we're not just rubber stamping, were they? I've given them back. You know what they feel our values are are virtuous, empowered, resilient, dedicated and excellent, right?

Patrick McCalla

And that really came from.

Danny Johnson

That came from them, right? That came from statements that they brought to me. So but I'm not just saying these are them, I'm giving them back to them to make sure that that's what they believe, because before we put them into place, we've got to make sure that they truly believe them.

Danny Johnson

They've got to make sure that this is the filter that we're going to make decisions for. They're going, this is the filter that we're going to bring people into the organization or promote people and organizations. So until we have that common belief, it's hard to move forward.

Patrick McCalla

Can you say those again? Were those values again, so virtuous, empowered.

Danny Johnson

Resilient, dedicated and excellent?

Patrick McCalla

Okay, so you have five of them? Yeah. And again, what ends up what a lot of leaders end up doing is they go to a conference and they hear those or they're listening this podcast to hear those they write them down.

Patrick McCalla

They go back to their organization, say, here's our new five values. Yeah, and you're saying that's not going to work very well.

Danny Johnson

No, they shouldn't do that because if you know the first letters in those, it's spells the word verde.

Danny Johnson

Oh, nice. So you can't steal it. You're the fire chief of Verde Valley Valley. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, that's that's nice. That's I like that. I like that. That's memorable. Wow. But but again, those those you may be had to tweak the words a little bit to make it fit that acronym.

Danny Johnson

But but.

Patrick McCalla

The ideas came from.

Danny Johnson

Your team. Yeah, the idea is right virtuous, pure organizational and individual motives. That's yeah, that's what we're looking for, empowered to do. What's right? Right? Resilience, right? We're safeguarding our members mental, emotional and physical well-being. Everything that we've been leading to is being resilient through tragedy, right, dedicated to the community and each other, and excellence in its

Danny Johnson

balance and efficiency with perfection. So these were things that they gave me. All they had to do is try to go find them an organization of.

Patrick McCalla

Mind for.

Danny Johnson

Them. Yeah, we had to dig for them.

Patrick McCalla

Like, like you said, you didn't sit down on one meeting with each of them and they just naturally said no because they hadn't been.

Danny Johnson

As a matter of fact, the first meeting that I had, it was blank stares. It was just like, Oh my goodness, what is this guy talking about? And it's taking eleven months of genuine conversation, genuine leadership, genuine actions to get them to start buying in and giving feedback.

Patrick McCalla

I bet there's a pretty tight group there now. I mean, there's, you know, you have a bunch of humans, so there's always messes, there's always messiness involved. We get that. We bring messes just because we're human too. Yeah, wherever, whatever room we walk into, we just brought another mess into that room.

Patrick McCalla

But because of the tragedy that they went through this last year and because they're part of building what the future is going to be with this, I bet there's some, some connections there that are pretty deep.

Danny Johnson

We're building them. Yeah, we're building them. And I think that as we build them slower, the stronger that they'll be.

Patrick McCalla

There's another one, Danny. As you build them slower, the stronger they'll be. So we could go off on that tangent.

Danny Johnson

So I don't yeah, I didn't mean to extend.

Danny Johnson

The keep bringing stuff up, but that's another.

Patrick McCalla

Great one where sometimes as leaders, especially we're wired, you know, we're we're activators. Yeah, when when should we start yesterday? When should we get this thing done yesterday? But slow sometimes is the healthiest way to build.

Danny Johnson

And I struggle with that. I want to go, Yeah, yeah, I know you have a vision wired that you see you like. I think this will work. You have to trust your gut. But sometimes, like you said, I struggle with that.

Danny Johnson

You have to slow down. Yeah, because if you're running outrunning everybody else who you leading, right, everybody's chasing you. You're not leading anywhere.

Patrick McCalla

And you get too far out and then they can't even.

Danny Johnson

Know. And then you're no longer by.

Danny Johnson

Yourself on an island, which a lot of leaders are. That's where they are, and they don't even realize, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. Well, anything else you want to add before I have the two truths in a.

Danny Johnson

Way, I've been prepping for that. Yeah, except for that. No, I appreciate the time. And you know, it's been it's a little bit overwhelming. Why, you know why me and why do you want me to speak on this?

Danny Johnson

But I appreciate the fact that you're you're giving me the opportunity.

Patrick McCalla

Well, and Danny, I watched it last year, I mean, we again we've been friends for for a decade now, but I watched it last year. You stepped into a new role and I've been in those situations before where it's new and you're trying to figure everything out.

Patrick McCalla

But then all of a sudden it's like Boom, boom, and we're friends as couples. You know, our wives are friends as well. And we're. And so just even reaching out to your wife going, Man, how's he doing with this?

Patrick McCalla

Because it was like he was like, you were getting. You were trying to almost tap out, you know, I think of a fighter.

Danny Johnson

And you try to tap out and and the rest is.

Patrick McCalla

Ignoring you. And it's like, Boom, you're getting hit with something else. And so but you've led well through that, and I think you've learned lessons that you're able to teach all of us.

Danny Johnson

I think that's what leadership's about. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. So appreciate that. So two truths and a lie. Ironic because this is no gray areas I'm asking to lie to me.

Danny Johnson

Exactly.

Danny Johnson

See if we can figure it out.

Danny Johnson

And you do know me. So I had to dig a little deeper.

Danny Johnson

Yeah.

Danny Johnson

All right. So we've tried to figure this out. I have hunted in five different states. OK. I was involved in a bench clearing brawl. I shot my brother with the began when we were kids.

Danny Johnson

You know what, every one of those is believable because you love hunting. I can totally see you in a bench clearing brawl. I'm going to say that's the truth. Bench clearing, brawl bench.

Danny Johnson

I was involved in high school.

Danny Johnson

See? Yeah, that that was.

Danny Johnson

Also a soccer player. It was a soccer brawl.

Danny Johnson

It was a soccer brawl. So no one was actually connecting. They were swinging.

Danny Johnson

They get voted. Best right hook on the soccer team. You did.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, you did.

Danny Johnson

But that's a whole another time.

Danny Johnson

Yes. Yeah. So I'm almost happy to know that that was the truth. Yeah, OK. OK, so.

Patrick McCalla

Then you you hunted in five different states. Yeah. And then.

Danny Johnson

I shot my brother with the B got away the kids.

Patrick McCalla

You shoot your brother to. I must say that's the truth, you shot.

Danny Johnson

Your brother to begin, I.

Danny Johnson

Did shoot my brother in the.

Danny Johnson

Street with began. Yeah, yeah.

Danny Johnson

You have.

Patrick McCalla

Hunted a lot, but.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, but I love the hunt five states and hopefully in time my wife will let me go hunting five different states Montana that Montana is on the list, Wyoming is on the list. And maybe Alaska, who knows? Yeah.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, you got to dream big.

Danny Johnson

Yeah, exactly.

Patrick McCalla

Exactly. Well, Danny, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Appreciate especially how you've led well last year and for your transparency with that and the lives that you're impacting through that, I mean, you truly are. There's generations like you talked about those football players, you impacted them.

Patrick McCalla

They're high schoolers. They're going to be different dads and leaders in the future because of the way they saw you lead. So appreciate that. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it.

Host

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