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Highlights

• How he became a go-to-market and revenue acceleration leader (02:12)
• Defining the authentic conversations that you can have with buyers (04:27)
• Applying the skills he acquired doing qualitative market research to his revenue growth work (06:48)
• Why you should start with your customer stories before going into your product (09:41)
• Being a Revenue Officer: Getting the sales team, marketing team, and other team players in alignment (12:09)
• Shifting your focus away from your product to thinking about your customer’s WHY (14:39)
• The value of ensuring your core goal is to get into your buyer’s world (17:53)
• Pattern recognition: The one thing that he took from his academic training into the corporate realm (22:47)
• NOBODY cares about your product (28:36)

In this episode of the Science of Selling STEM, I will have a value-packed conversation with the Founder and President of Winalytics LLC, Brent Keltner, Ph.D. Winalytics is a go-to-market and revenue acceleration consultancy that helps clients reach their top growth potential by shifting from product-driven selling to value-driven go-to-market strategies. Brent is also the author of the forthcoming book “The Revenue Acceleration Playbook: Creating an Authentic Buyer Journey Across Sales, Marketing, and Customer Success” Brent brings to the role more than a decade of experience as a revenue leader in enterprise to early-stage companies and ten years as a Ph.D. social scientist at Stanford and the RAND Corporation.  

His clients have included Ascend Learning, Credo Reference, DealerRater, Lexmark, Mursion, Ready Education, True Fit, and Verisk Analytics. Brent and I will dive into the topic of authentic conversations: what they are, how to spot them, and how they differentiate a business. You will learn what authentic conversations with your customers should look like and how to build and train a sales team that can have these conversations. We will cover all aspects of having authentic conversations with buyers during our discussion. 

You’ll also learn how to find out if your sales team is currently having authentic conversations, and how authentic conversations can lead to better discovery calls and more sales. If you’re looking to differentiate yourself from the competition, having authentic conversations is the way to do it. Listen in to learn more!

Quotes

“Every phase of the buyer and customer journey starts with your buyer why and then your customer why. Then look at how you can make them more successful. You will grow faster, you will have better buyer and customer relationships, you will like your work more, and you will learn every day” - Brent Keltner

“If you wanna capture your customer stories, don’t just go and show up with a bunch of random questions. Ask 6 or 8 questions around what you think is your value” - Brent Keltner

“Don’t start with your product. Start with your customer stories” - Brent Keltner

“Shift from thinking about your product and focus more on a story around how a customer used your product” - Brent Keltner

“Don’t focus on sales skills, focus on sales skills in the context of go-to-market skills because we should all be running authentic conversations at different depths” - Brent Keltner

Resources Mentioned:

• The Revenue Acceleration Playbook By Brent Keltner

Learn More About Brent in the Links Below:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/bkeltner/

Website - https://AuthenticityWins.com/

Email - BKeltner@Winalytics.com

Connect with Wesleyne Greer:

• Wesleyne’s Website - https://transformedsales.com/
• Wesleyne on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesleynegreer/
• Wesleyne on Facebook - https://web.facebook.com/wesleynegreer
• Wesleyne on Twitter - https://twitter.com/wesleynegreer
• Email Her at wesleyne@transformedsales.com

As a sales manager, you are judged by the

performance of your team, and you're praised when they do

well. But one thing that you've not been able to figure out is

how to get everyone on your team consistently hitting quota every

single month. On the Snack size sales podcast, we discuss the

science of selling stem sales leadership in the science,

technology, engineering and manufacturing fields is

difficult. You will learn from sales managers just like you

that will give you actionable insights and tips on how to

develop as a leader and achieve your revenue targets every

single month. So pop your headphones in and get ready to

listen to my guests today. They will give you information and

inspiration to ensure that you have actionable insights that

you can put into place today. Hello and welcome to another

episode of the science of selling stem today I am so

delighted to have Brent Keltner with when analytics here. How

are you Brent? I'm doing well. Wesleyne

I'm really excited for the conversation.

I am to let me tell you a little bit about

Brent. Brent Keltner is a PhD and the founder and president of

Winter Olympics a go to market and revenue acceleration

consultancy they help their clients reach top revenue growth

by shifting from product driven selling to focusing on authentic

and buyer and customer journey. Authenticity wins. When you

anchor each buyer or customer conversations on how they define

value you will grow faster before starting with analytics

he spent more than a decade as a revenue leader in enterprise to

early stage companies including Kaplan edge ventures plus del

Sol partners and college link. He began his career as a PhD

social scientists and spent 10 years conducting qualitative

research interviews at Stanford University. He lives in Boston

with his wife at son and daughter. They are active

members of park St. Charles and Boston Trinity Academy. Wow,

you're not doing a few things. You have a PhD you had many

companies. You have two kids and a wife. So tell me how did you

start your career and how did you get to where you are today?

Yeah, let's start at the endpoint and then we'll

walk in cheese's back I mean, we I think of myself as a go to

market and revenue acceleration leader. I love selling, selling

in the modern buyer centric market. If you're thinking about

selling outside of the buyer journey, you're thinking about

the wrong thing because sales as a standalone profession is

broken. Yeah, salespeople need to be guides they need to be

trusted advisors that starts on the website starts in

prospecting sales continues it continues in the expansion

motion. So I say that because I ran qualitative research

projects and I got really good at doing what we now call

authentic conversations wasn't about me wasn't about my

research project it was all about is what's in it for you

Mr. or Mrs. Bank, executive, telecom executive and CERN's

executive, what are you going to get out of the interview? What

are the peers we're working with ads you're going to be able to

learn from I got really good at that may be good at qualitative

research, you may be good at selling. I transitioned to the

dark side as academics call to the from the Academy to Kaplan

and then a bunch of other companies. What I found out is

running authentic conversations was not the way people were

trying to sell. People in my teams at Kaplan and edgy

ventures were trained to product sell, they were trained to drag

their buyers through their pain, pitch their product, handle

objections and close them down. And it's like where's the

partnership in that where's the buyers success in that so I

trained my teams on our own authentic conversations and it

was fantastically successful had four quick growth successes

started consulting on it we've had a successful consulting

business for seven years which is all about every phase of the

buyer and customer journey. Start with your buyer why and

then your customer Why come back to how you can make them more

successful, you will grow faster, you will have better

buyer and customer relationships, you will like

your work more you will learn every day.

So we have a whole lot to talk about here.

Because yes, your vision of conversations with buyers is so

aligned with my I often say stop vomiting product knowledge on

your buyers like and they don't care about you. So I'm really

curious about this authenticity because a lot of people are

throwing this word around now oh my authentic this or be

authentic that like how do you really define those authentic

conversations that you're having with buyers?

Get to me I'm an authentic conversation is just

intentionally focus on do we have a fit or not? The you and I

and look, you can have authentic conversations and a personal

relationship? Is our relationship going in a

direction we both want to it to go? Right? So it's really about

being working on alignment. It's about not you and I, it's about

we, and what are we doing together? So for us, a good

authentic conversation just has three parts business personal,

you start by just agreeing, are we talking about something we

both care about, because if I don't know what you care about,

then I'm vomiting at you, right? Whether it's in my business life

or personal life. And once I know what you care about, good

karma, personal respect is focused on that. Share the

elements of your product, share the elements of your customers,

stories that align to what you care about. And then the third

part is see if you care. Did I deepen your sense of fit with

me? And if so what will you do about it next, so let's agree

what we're talking about. Let's work towards deeper alignment or

not. And then let's agree to what on both sides we will do.

And if you have conversations like that, you'll have more

great conversations every day, not good conversations, but

great conversations that lift you out of your day, and you

together are imagining a better future that you're actively

working towards.

Hmm, that's so good, really thinking about and

when I listened to you, one thing that really draws me to

why this is so important is you're talking about us and

listening and actually walking along that buyers journey. So

you started your career doing market research, and many people

don't even actually understand what market research is help us

talk to the audience about what you did specifically in that

world, and how it helped you doing your work that you're

doing now?

Yeah, so I did qualitative research, and it was

more looking at human capital strategies. How are people

investing in their people to then drive business growth, but

it's related to qualitative research you can do in a market

research phase, when you're interviewing customers, what I

found what I learned quickly, as if you had a structured set of

questions, six to eight, that you went through in every

conversation, you could see the patterns quicker, right? Because

you and look, it doesn't mean they're not some every

conversation is gonna go a slightly different question way.

But if you have those questions, you commit to asking in every

conversation, you see the patterns quicker if you go to a

sales conversation, and you sort of commit to a structure where

I'm going to start with some discovery on your why. And ask

three or four questions, and I'm going to share more on me, but

I'm going to stop and ask you where you're seeing the most

value. And then at the end, I'm going to ask what are you

willing to do about it? Right? So as I became a revenue leader,

I use that same structure to like, what is a good first call?

Let's just commit to asking six or eight common questions. So we

know how good that call was, at the end. And for good market

researchers. And I listened to an awesome podcast about a woman

who drives growth by doing customer stories. So if you want

to capture your customer stories, don't just go and show

up with a bunch of random questions. Write as six or eight

questions around what you think is your value. And you start

with an open ended question. Where are you getting the most

value out of this relationship? Are there any things we could

improve? And do better? Because that's always just asking, but

then you probably have three questions around specific

things, you know, you do well, specific gaps that you help

companies solve process or capabilities, you don't ask

those every time and get a range of response. So that more in, as

you said, just a little bit more thoughtful, just being more

intentional. taken five 10% of our time to prep and reflect we

do better,

huh? You know, one of the key things that I

when I'm working with sales teams, I tell them, Hey, have

your new salespeople do I call them win loss reports like

they're the new kid on the block, give them five questions

to ask the deals that were won in the deals that were lost in

their territory, or just have them pull random ones because

like you said, it's like hearing the voice of the customer

getting that story and understanding and as a brand new

salesperson. That's the best way to learn. Hey, this is what we

do really well. This is what we don't do. Well, I don't want to

step in that mud.

I love that. I was on a call today with a guy

named Austin Kennedy who's the CRO at a company called hu which

does immersive simulations for training different types of

skills. I had never heard this before, but they start their

onboarding with customer use cases and stories. Were really

powerful, you just said the same thing is, don't start with your

product, start with your customer stories and then come

to how your product helps with us. It shifts from what we

talked about when you start with customer stories, it shifts from

you and I to we as peers that are working on a common problem

we're both trying to solve. So I love that idea of new sellers,

do a win loss report, absolutely, actually really know

why they bought or why they didn't buy

Exactly. And the crazy thing is, it's when we use

this voice of customer when we stop talking so much. And

actually listen to the buyers. It gives us so much insight. I

was actually on a call today. And when I'm walking through,

I'm delivering a proposal, I always ask for agreement. Do I

have this right? And they were like, actually, no, you don't

have it right? This is what the challenge that we're going

through is. And so it helped me shift my trajectory to ensure I

was meeting the customer where they are because they weren't

here. They weren't all the way up here. They were still down at

the baseline level. And I

love that you said that you did that with the

proposal, because people often forget honestly. And you know

this every single conversation, things change, new players get

involved. So once you think you know your buyers, why start the

next conversation? Do you still know the backers? Will IRS

things change? Or can they go deeper? Can they help you

quantify or they can help you tell you more about why that

would make them more successful? And then before you get to a

proposal? Have them confirm it? Put it at the top of the

proposal? Why are they talking about working with you?

Exactly. And you know, the crazy thing is the

meeting was scheduled and the person emailed and they said, I

thought you said you're gonna send me a proposal so we can

review for it before our meeting. I said we don't send

proposals. We present proposals why exactly what you said,

because if you send somebody a proposal, you're putting the

onus on your buyer to interpret it the way that they want to

interpret it, you can't tell them the story around it. You

can't give them the why and help them remember, you came to me

with this problem and this problem, and this is the

solution to fix it. That's right. So you mentioned that you

were a Revenue Officer at a company. So tell me as a Revenue

Officer, how did you really ensure that you got all of the

players on the team, the sales team marketing team, COO? How

did you get everyone in alignment in that role?

Yeah, I mean, now we call them value plays, and

content pathways around your value plays. But I think what I

realized early on, and success stories are your most important

type of content. But there are others. I mean, blog posts, and

you know, white papers that we write, or even webinars. And I

think what I realized early on, and we now do consulting around

this is you got to get cross go to market team alignment on

those value plays. Right. So let's take a example of a

company called agility that I just got a nice email from Chris

code is their VP of Customer development, and they have a

sequel analytics platform that now allows you to manage from

the same sequel codebase, across the entire enterprise, right, so

people can have their versions within share to save library. So

analytics at scale now becomes a lot more doable. And so they

were selling that right as they were selling kind of features of

hey, when you would like to have a code library, and when you'd

like to, you know, be able to share that code, etc. And then

they sort of realized, if we roll up, what's the problem that

solves? Well, for a manager, an analytics manager, it makes

their team 30% more productive, right. And they had stats on

that they can do the same amount of coding 30% more time, they

roll up to the chief development officer level, or data officer

or whatever it they've not only make the whole enterprise 30%

more productive, but they can get to business insights, a lot

quicker supply chain insights or whatever it is warehousing. So

as they build their value plays, okay, now, what are our best

stories around each? What are our best insight blogs around

each and so now thinking not content is an individual asset,

but content tells a story about how we help with that buyer?

Why? So what I found is if you just got good at aligning your

content to different buyer, why's that you help with that

could align your go to market team, from marketing, to sales

to customer success through to your product is building value

plays with content aligned to each much easier for people to

understand, are we all talking about the same thing?

So how do you shift from being so focused on

your product to really thinking about those value plays that the

why's that your customer like the reason behind it? What is

that paradigm shift that people need to go through to get there?

So

technically, you already described it right? As

you start with your win loss analysis, you start with your

customer base. Ways You start with your customer stories

because when you tell customer stories, it's not only not you

and I but us peers, but it also shifts, right? It's like you

talk about your product, how did one of your customers use your

product, it Now very quickly becomes about an outcome,

similar with a win loss analysis, and very, very quickly

becomes did it help with an outcome or not? Somebody else.

So shift to thinking about now your product, but a story around

how a customer use your product. That's the easiest way to do it.

But there's a bigger mindset problem is what I'm coming

deeper, deeper understanding, we like talking about ourselves,

right? We like talking about ourselves, people get

uncomfortable with uncertainty. You know, our brains are often

wired to hear confirmation, not to learn right not to go into it

saying, hey, I need to ask questions, understand, get to a

conclusion before so you need to commit leadership and then as a

team, to I don't know, I got to get the answer out of the

conversation. And that means I got to shift to a learner

mindset. Not a knowing mindset, but a learner mindset, every

conversation, I'm probably going to need to learn new things

about my buyers and prospects. And I need to commit to that and

build that behavior. And I'll stop for some questions before I

keep going on this topic. Because it's a big one. You

know,

when I, what I kind of equivocate that to is a

lot of times when a salesperson or even a sales manager, they

show up to the meeting with their list of questions, and

they're like, these are all the five things that I want to know.

And I always tell people, I'm Rachael, I do nothing like the

books I do. When you go to a discovery call, you have one

question? And that is your opening question. And this

actually comes from Deb Calvert, she calls it the command

question, you have one strong question, you open your

discovery with open the meeting with and you listen, you focus

on the person, right and listen to what they're saying. And when

you listen to what they're saying. And you get in their

world, they're more willing to go on that journey with you.

Because like you said, it's hard to change. It's like hardwired

in us to think about ourselves to do what we want to do. But if

you step into that buyers world, that's when those wheels start

turning.

Yeah, I love that. And I assume in this, your

command question you listen, and then probably do a little bit of

recapping and then ask more questions.

Absolutely. Just like I do my podcast, anyone

who's ever been on this podcast, some podcasts give you a list of

questions. I used to do that, because that's what you know,

they teach you to do, yeah, you send the questions. But I don't

do that. Because like, every single person, their story is so

interesting. And I want to learn about them. I don't want it to

be self serving, and only ask you a prescribed question. So I

literally asked that one question. I start with same

question every time, guys. You know, tell me about your

journey. And based on the journey, I'm asking you

questions.

Yep. So I love that. And I think what's most

important, and what you said is our whole goal is to get into

our buyers world and understand their why for the call, we often

think about and understand the goal of discovery is to get to a

buyer success statement, how can we make them more successful and

seeing that future together? And you can do that with one

question and then follow on questions. But at the end of the

day, they have to be excited about doing something with us,

or it's gonna go absolutely

nowhere. Absolutely. Building a learner

mindset

is not an individual pursuit. Because we

individually, you know, you and I have a certain disposition and

that practice these skills over and over again, I can be pulled

into product pitching, it's hard. I do do it sometimes. But

I built that mindset for years and years and years and years

and years. A lot of new teams, when you think about making this

shift, if you think individually, it's not going to

happen. What you need to do is we also encourage you get into a

team based mindset, where you're coming together as a team every

two weeks, and you're asking questions about your buyer and

your use case and your success stories could be sharing deals,

but you're intentionally saying we need to learn from each other

because the market out there is so challenging that we need to

learn about a buyers quicker. And we actually encourage an off

week where you have coaching with individually in pairs with

a peer or your your manager and then a team call. So it's 3% of

your time 3% of your time a week is basically like I'm going to

be an active learner. The other awesome thing about the CTU call

is that bi weekly call their CEO joins us and Kenny sets up their

CEO joins to basically says it's important that you all show up

to be active learners and is that kind of commitment that

puts companies on a different growth trajectory. What we hear

way too often so we have experienced salespeople, and I

say that means they're good at product pitching because your

experience is backward looking forward looking is how do I get

better at selling to each buyer and I can all I learned that

from my buyers and my peers

Hmm. So if you just wanted to scratch this

little nugget that you know I love to talk about is that no

matter the initiative that your company is going after, or

trying to implement, whether it's sales training, Google ad,

whatever it is, if leadership is not involved and invested, it's

never going to work. And so a lot of times, what we see is I

say, companies are throwing money at the problem. They're

like, Oh, yeah, more sales, training, more sales training,

oh, let's do this. Or let's do that. And what happens to the

manager, the leaders, they're in the back of the room, or they're

declining calls, because they're not invested. And so for them

showing up show this is important to me. And not only is

it important to me, but I'm your manager, I'm your leader, I'm

the CEO, but I'm still showing up to this call, right? Because

I want to learn and having that lifelong learning, right, are

really understanding that we're not like a finite being or a

finite person in our development, that we continually

have to learn new skills. And as a team, we're good because when

one person on the team does wrong, or when one person on the

team goes in vomits product knowledge that one person

they're talking to tells what 10 of their friends, but the one

that's doing it, right, they tell one person and it stays

there. So as a unit as a company, we have to get

stronger.

Yeah. And I love that it starts with leadership,

setting a direction. And I just want to add one thing to what

you said is this is not about I mean, look, I was raised an

academic I love to learn. As a revenue leader, I don't spend

time learning about my buyers, because I just want to be touchy

feely, right? I spend time learning about my buyers because

I close more quicker and higher dollar values, and I expand

quicker. And I've written a whole book with 20 case studies

about how this works. But the reason to be authentic, is we

will win a lot faster. When we as you said the whole goal of

discovery is why are they on that call? What problem can I

solve for them continually bringing them back to that and

so the reason to be authentic, you'll enjoy your work more, but

you will win faster.

Yeah. And I think you get a faster Yes, and

you get a faster No, because there are also times that it's

not a good fit this past month or two clients, I'm like this is

just this is not a good fit for us. For you, it's not going to

be beneficial, you're not going to achieve your goals. And this

isn't a good fit for us. And again, when you have that

authenticity and you step into your actual buyers world, like

really going not like tiptoeing not sprinkling, but all the way

into their world, and you really understand their challenges, and

they're like, I need to go on this journey, you're gonna take

me I want you to pull me along, I was actually going to ask

about your academic background coupled with what you do now.

Because I mean, you know, getting a PhD is no small feat,

right? You got to be smart, I will say to do that. And you get

really good at researching and learning and doing all of those

things. And sometimes one of the challenges with academics is, as

you said, when you translate over into the corporate realm,

it doesn't always go as smoothly as you've gone. So tell us a

little bit about that transition you made from the academia into

the corporate realm, if you will.

So for me what the academic training taught me

to be really good at from a revenue leader point of view is

pattern recognition. Right? It's just really good at how do I win

by for each buyer, and what's the overall value prop. And so

that's I kind of train my brain to get really good at pattern

recognition, or the academic training wasn't great, was

recognizing some of the things that you alluded to around the

change management, needing to build the coalition of support,

right, needing to get all levels of buy in that this we're going

to shift I just sort of assumed everybody looked at the world

this way. And so I not only one of my first job roles at a major

dustup with the, you know, like the president of the company on

this point, but then through to my work with edgy ventures, Tom

directly who was my CEO there now as the CEO of Charlotte, I

was awesome and authentic conversations externally. One of

my internal colleagues called me the bulldozer. No, this is the

direction we're going. Right. So that was great at the pattern

recognition, not as good at the how do we build the coalition

support, and that's been, you know, I've gotten much better at

that. But that was the good and the bad of being trained as an

academic.

Wow, a lot of times, and I don't know if

that's a necessarily an academic thing, but I see that a lot with

leaders, right. It's like if the customer is important, I care

about what the customer thinks. But my colleagues maybe my

subordinates and I don't think not that they don't matter as

much but you just don't have that in your mind is hey, this

is somebody I value in this is actually a customer too, right?

Like you're, you're the person, if you're a salesperson, your

operations person that is actually a customer, right? You

need to treat them like their customer, because guess what, if

they don't like you, they will make your life so difficult. And

none of your stuff will get executed and all your products

will fall through.

Yes. And when I think about authentic

conversations internally, this idea of you can have fed or not

one of the things with our early growth companies, we have three

buckets of segments we work with, and the early growth

companies would be kind of, you know, call it two to seven, 8

million in revenue, more and more of the work I do at CES is

like you got to set the Vision for growth. And if people aren't

a good fit at that stage, that's okay, their Y has to align with

your y too often I'd see people can just focus on consensus

building, which kind of mutes the message. And so I think even

internally, you have to listen, get people's buy into the

message, but you have to start with a direction.

Yeah. And when you think about the message and

the people that you have on the boat, if you will, a lot of

times people are trying to shift that why or shift the vision to

the actual people that you have and like know, what is the

person you need in this position? What do you need them

to do? And then you figure out, Is this the right person for

this position? It doesn't mean that they won't be with the

company, maybe there'll be in a different position? Because what

you need at this point in the company, this is not aligned.

Yeah, I love that. So tell me, you mentioned that you wrote a

book. Talk to us about your book.

Yeah, the book is called the revenue acceleration

playbook. The subtitle is creating an authentic buyer

journey across sales, marketing and customer success. And so it

really was 20 years in the making, because I was 13 years

as a revenue leader. And seven years as a consultant, it was

the first time I actually wrote down what I had been doing as a

revenue leader and consultant. And so it's very much a playbook

focus, right, this idea of how do you get organizational

alignment, you start with value plays and content pathways, but

then the book kind of goes through team by team, how does

this apply to our prospecting team? How does it apply to the

sales team? How does it apply to the land and expand motion,

which cuts across a couple of teams? How does it expand to the

customer success organization? And now it's really about how do

you take those value plays and in every buyer and customer

interaction really anchor on their why bringing it back to,

you know, as you did in the proposal, bringing it back to

why they're talking to you why they're doing a first call, why

they're doing a second call, why they're talking about closing

with you, what they might be talking about doing next with

you. And so we think we are talking more and more about

don't focus on sales skills, focus on sales skills in the

context of go to market skills, because we should all be running

authentic conversations at different depths. But even your

prospectors, good prospectors invite a conversation, right?

They ask questions, they share success stories, good

salespeople, you know, deepen that conversation, get to an

initial close, good sauce, customer success, people they're

not selling, but they're surfacing new ways to work

together through a habit of discovery. What else could we be

worth? This is our initial success. So we're having success

with are there these are other problems we solve for there are

other areas we can be working on. So your idea of there's an

initial proposal there's follow on but it all comes back to why

are you on the phone with me? What am I helping you

accomplish? How am I making your future more successful?

So I really like what your your whole basis of

your book because it brings me back to? I think it's Simon

Sinek? Yeah, start with why the book Start With Why right. And I

remember when I read that book, I was like, Ah, this is good.

Because a lot of times some people start with the how or the

what, but if you start with the why the why helps you understand

from all phases of the organization, again, to the

person answering the phone to the person fulfilling the order

to the person making sure that they're collecting payments,

that we are aligned as a company. And when you have

alignment as the company that helps like you said, it just

accelerates your revenue to 1020, a hundredfold.

Yep, start and continue on the why every

conversation and you will have that outcome. There's another

way of saying when you said that I was fortunate to have David

Meerman Scott as my book coach for this book. And you know,

he's been saying for years, nobody cares about your product.

Nobody cares about your product, and then we still show up and

vomit our product, what they care about is what does your

product do for them? So to your point, I mean, that's the whole

point of the book is if you come back to your buyer, why in every

interaction you will grow faster.

So I take that nobody cares about your price

and nobody cares about you. I actually say that we care about

you, your parents care about you, your spouse, your kids,

your auntie your cousins, but your customer, your buyer, they

don't care about you, they care about themselves, and they hear

about the problem that they have and how you can help them

achieve that success. 100%. So question for you tell me about

something in your life that you are most excited about

accomplishing, either personally or professionally?

And can that be future looking in the next six

months? Absolutely. So I have been doing karate with my kids

now for probably eight years, seven or eight years. And my son

and I, this fall we'll test for he will test for his first

degree adult black belt, and I'll test for my second degree,

adult black belt. And so training with him and the idea

of testing with him is feels awesome. It's been a great

journey for all of us.

That's amazing. That's amazing fatherhood. And

not just, you know, being a parent, but actually being

present and doing something that your kids enjoy. Right? So going

into their world.

They do karate, because I asked them to, but I

don't know that they would do it otherwise. But I do. I think

your point is really well taken as they've gotten older. I've

tried to figure out what their interests are, and how can I can

align to it. So we just had a great family trip to Ireland and

Scotland and my son loves hiking. So went on a couple of

hikes with him. And that was just awesome time because he was

in his own. And so I love that it's a great site direction, you

know, figure out what they care about and be supportive of that.

That's awesome. That's awesome. Brent, this has

been a wonderful conversation, I really enjoyed you know,

connecting on that authentic conversation and surrounding

yourself with the why, right, the company's why and stepping

into the buyers world.

Ya know, I love that it's always awesome

Wesleyan to talk with like minded revenue leaders. There's

more and more of us that think this way. But we're still the

minority, a growing minority, which is a good thing. So I

really appreciated the conversation.

And if people want to get in contact with you,

what is the one best way

they could just go to the website authenticity

wins.com which will bring them right to our book landing page

on our homepage, or they can email me at be Keltner. And when

a linux.com I'm happy to take questions and often do after

podcasts.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, again for

sharing your time, your talent and your expertise with our

audience.

Thank you. Aslan, really enjoyed the conversation.

And that

was another episode of the science of

selling stem and remember and all that you do transform your

sales until next time.

Thank you for joining us today on the snack sized

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