“When you're in a sales situation, the prospect knows you're a salesman and they're afraid of you. Because the perception is that salesmen always want to close the sale. But there's no mutual mystification. Everybody has to understand what's going through the mind of the other person. I tell people it's okay for them to tell me no if we're not a fit.”
-Rolf Snobeck, National Strategic Account Manager at Tecta America.
Sales are too often about hitting goals and closing deals instead of allowing the customer to be the focus. Our guest, roofing industry veteran Rolf Snobeck, has a different take. Ethical selling finds the best solution for a customer’s problem through careful collaboration. A crucial part of the formula is knowing your company’s offerings and sending customers to where their needs are met, even with another firm.
With the customer’s best interest at heart, an ethical salesperson allays concerns and creates the ideal solution. Ethical sales fly in the face of expectation, elevating the experience for us all.
Topics discussed in this interview:
- The 2023 Metal Roofing Summit is April 25-27 in Dayton, OH
- Rolf’s introduction to roofing
- Inside look at Tecta America and Rolf’s duties as an account manager
- Experiences on the roofing design, contractor, and manufacturer sides
- Buying processes and changing buyer priorities
- Ethical sales and selling a solution
- Focusing on helping the customer
- Significant changes in roofing over 40 years
- The skilled labor shortage
- NRCA’s ProCertification®
- The benefits of proactive roof maintenance
- A truly sustainable mindset
- CAC-BEF, an NFP dedicated to putting students through college in construction fields
- Rapid-fire questions
Give Rolf a call at 630-514-1867 and find him on LinkedIn. Also, check out the Chicago Area Chapter Building Envelope Foundation if you or someone you know is pursuing a college degree in the building field.
For more Construction Disruption, listen on Apple Podcasts or YouTube
Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn
This episode was produced by Podcast Boutique http://podcastboutique.com
Rolf Snobeck:
:I'm ethically bound to tell the building owner that I have a solution for them. If, however, I can't help them, I'm also ethically bound to say I'm not the right fit. We shouldn't work together. And this is why I think the world would be a lot easier if that was the approach that everybody took.
Todd Miller:
:Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of building and remodeling. I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty metal, roofing and other building materials. Today, my co-host is the inimitable Ryan Bell. Ryan, how you doing?
Ryan Bell:
:Hey, Todd. I'm doing great. How are you?
Todd Miller:
:I am doing well also, although I've still got this raspy voice thing going on, so I apologize for that. But what have you been working on lately? You are our creative director here and get involved in all kinds of creativity. What have you been working on lately?
Ryan Bell:
:Well, it's a wonderful time of year where we are getting ready to start promoting our Metal Roofing Summit. So I've been pretty swamped working on, you know, updating the website and schedule and some promo videos to help get the word out about that.
Todd Miller:
:Well, that's fantastic. And you're right, it's an exciting time. In fact, I almost burst out in a Christmas song there where you said, it's that most wonderful time of the year. I won't subject everyone to that. But anyway, yeah, I'm looking forward to the Summit. I mean, last year we had upwards of 100 people there. It's a great educational conference. I think one of the things people worry about when they go to conferences is, is this just going to be a big commercial for someone's training or someone's CDs? Used to be cassette tapes, now I'm dating myself, or is it really going to be something useful? And, you know, I think one of the things I often hear from folks when they leave the Metal Roofing Summit is, You guys never talk about your product. You never tried to sell me anything and we absolutely don't. We love to develop relationships and friendships there, but above all, we're simply there to provide some good inspiration, some good training. Just a lot of good networking and sharing amongst the contractors who come up. And a big thing for all of us is to sell more residential metal roofing. And we believe that a rising tide raises all ships, and that's really what the Summit is all about. So you've done some great promotional videos that hopefully our audience starts to see rolling out on some social media and different places. So that's exciting. What are our dates? April 27th-29th or the end of April? That's safe to say.
Ryan Bell:
:I should know, but I've been so obsessed with perfecting the videos that are going out. Maybe a little pedantic about it, but yeah, I should know the dates. I believe those are correct.
Todd Miller:
:Well, you should be proud as a peacock of those videos you've put out. So anyway, it's going to be at the beautiful University of Dayton Marriott, which is a great facility, and it's fun to expose people to Dayton and some of the neat things there, like the Air and Space Museum or Air Force Museum, I guess it is. And a number of cool developments going on in downtown Dayton right now as well. So we look forward to having folks as our guests check that out at metalroofingsummit.com, metalroofingsummit.com. Love to see you join us. So one of the things I want to share with everybody before we introduce our guest today, we are once again doing our challenge words. So each of us has been given a word to work into the conversation at some point. And so our audience can be listening to see if they pick up on, I wonder if that was a challenge word right there. And of course, at the end of the show, we will recap our success or lack thereof. So let's get rolling. Today's guest is Rolf Snobeck, based in the Chicago area. Rolf has nearly 45 years of roofing industry experience. He and I are right there in competition with each other. He has worked with Tecta America commercial roofing for the last 27 years, currently serving as National Strategic Account Manager. Rolf, interestingly, has worked in 43 states as well as in Canada and the Pacific Basin. Since 1994, he's been a registered roof consultant with IIBEC, which is the former RCI, and he is licensed as a professional roofing contractor in the state of Illinois, widely respected for his knowledge and expertise and known as Rolf the Roofing Guy. Rolf's goal is to help property owners make better roofing decisions. Rolf, thank you so much for joining us today on Construction Disruption.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Great to be here, guys. Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.
Todd Miller:
:Well, we're looking forward to a great conversation, especially, you know, anyone who's has a lot of experience, has a lot of stories from our industry, of course. But, you know, I think the big thing that drives us all forward is how do we make the industry better. So can you share with us a little bit about your own story and you know how you came to spend, you know, at least so far, your entire career in the roofing industry?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Well, if you want to hear stories, you're talking to the right guy. So how did I get into the roofing industry? It was not by plan. It was purely by accident. Unless somebody is the son or daughter of somebody in the industry, it's not a place that people naturally gravitate to.
Todd Miller:
:That's true.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Back in high school, this was back when they had shop classes. I took all the standard shop classes, autos, woods, electronics, typesetting, now there's a skill that you don't necessarily need to have anymore, in drafting. And six weeks before I graduated from high school, my high school drafting teacher who moonlit as a house painter, painted a house on a weekend for a guy that was a roof consultant engineering company, and he came in on Monday. He goes, Yeah, I painted this guy's house and he needs a draftsman, part-time draftsman to work for him full-time over the summer. Hey Rolf, you ought to go apply for a job. So since I was very good at drawing, I applied for the job and I got it. And it was purely a means to pay for college. So I worked there full-time in the summer, part-time during the school year, paid for college. Great thing was I had zero debt when I got out. But what I tell people, when you get into the roofing industry, it's like the old Eagles song, the Hotel California.
Todd Miller:
:Right?
Rolf Snobeck:
:You check out, but you never leave.
Todd Miller:
:You can't leave.
Rolf Snobeck:
:So I've changed jobs a couple of times, but I'm stuck.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, it's really interesting. A couple episodes we ago we interviewed Letitia Hanke of ARS Roofing and got her out in California. Very similar story, she was in college, she was actually going to be a professional musician. She took a part-time summer job as a, in a roofing office, ended up buying the company like five years later. So you're right, it's fascinating. And the thing I think that drives a lot of us is this desire to help people, because a roof is such a critical part of the building envelope. And so that's cool stuff. So for our audience members who may not be real familiar with Tecta America, can you please tell us a little bit about the scope and breadth of the company and maybe tell us what your responsibilities are there today?
Rolf Snobeck:
:So I tell people Tecta is the national roofing company with a local touch. What does that mean? We've got roughly 95 offices and we do work in each of those local markets for roofing that is indigenous to the given area. So you might be in the historic areas in the Northeast and you're going to see a lot of slate work. You're going to get down to Florida and you're going to have Spanish tile. You get to Phoenix, Arizona, and half the market is sprayed in place foam, and so there's common products that may be installed across the country, TPO, PVC, that type of thing, EPDM. But we really dial into whatever the local market does so. What do I do specifically is that I'm in national accounts, so I work with clients that may have regional or national portfolios of buildings. And generally speaking, who do I hope I'm going to work for an account? They may be frustrated because, you know, they're not, it's not just one roof they're concerned about. They've got dozens or hundreds of roofs and they're frustrated because they have roofs that haven't lasted as long as they thought they should have. The dirty little secret in the industry is that virtually every roof comes with a 20-year warranty. But the average statistical roof life is less than 17 years. And so that's a problem. Part of that is because roofs are hard to take care of. So you've got another set of people that are concerned. They know they got to do a preventive maintenance program, but they have no idea how to apply that. And then I work with a lot of people who are worried about safety. And traditionally when it comes to roofing, building owners think about and OSHA used to think about, Hey, the new roof's being put on the building. During the execution of the work the contractor needs to make sure that their employees, as well as the building owners employees, are being kept safe. When the roof is done all the safety equipment goes down, contractor goes away. In 2016, OSHA came out with the walking working surfaces protocol and it really puts the onus on building owners, Hey, you've got a roof on the building and there's rooftop units up there that need to be maintained. How does the building owner keep their employees safe? So I do quite a bit of work with owners understanding that protocol and how to be in compliance.
Todd Miller:
:Very interesting. Well, I know, too, you have done a lot of informative videos about different aspects of roofing. You've got a couple of good ones out there that help to explain warranty. So it appears to be you take, you know, what we call a consultative approach to selling and working with your clients. Can you tell us a little bit, you know, I mean, you're at the top of the industry. What do you see as the role and responsibility of a professional roofing contractor?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Thanks for asking that. So that's a great question. I've had the good fortune of working, as I say, there's three sides to the fence in the roofing industry. There's the the design side, architects, engineers, consultants. I worked on that side of the fence for 17 years. There's the contracting side. I've been working on that for 27 years. Then there's the manufacturing or supplying side, but they all contribute to the solution. The, I think the reason I take the approach that I do is that through IIBEC that you mentioned before, I'm a registered roof consultant, so I spent the first part of my career finding solutions that made sense on paper. The last 27 years I've spent time working to find out as a licensed contractor, what's the practical solution? Because I think you need to marry those together. When designers sit in a vacuum and contractors sit in a vacuum, they both have knowledge. But where they overlap and they can combine that knowledge, it's a better result for building owners. So that's part of the reason I take the approach that I do not just purely, Hey, what's the cheapest way to put a roof on a building? But what what's the most practical solution to help solve the building owners problems? And that's reason when I sit down with them, I'll ask them questions and I'll tell them that I'm going to. Before we propose anything, we're going to sit down and have a conversation, find out if we're a fit or not a fit. And if we're not a fit, who can I recommend that they should be talking to instead of us? If we are a fit, you know, try to figure out what is it they need and find the most appropriate solution. That's where I come up with a consultative approach. It's not a one-size-fits-all.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah.
Speaker:
:So I don't know if that that helps you a little bit. And the other thing is, you know, we've gotten very technology-oriented. It used to be you had to go out and look at every building because there was nothing, there was no other way to see it. But in today's world, there's drones, other satellite imagery. We see people using this all the time. But at the end of the day, I think you still need to sit up a ladder, climb across the roof, be a little bit ambulatory. Take a look at the thing, you know, from six feet from everywhere and come up with the right solution.
Todd Miller:
:Yep, I agree. There's a lot to be said for the technology. It's very helpful. But sometimes hands-on is really more helpful and important as well. So, you know, it's kind of interesting, as I think back and I've always been in the residential end of things because I think back to my start in the industry, it it seemed like most roofing residential roofs were sold with a contractor coming out, pulling out his tape measure, his wheel, and getting some measurements. And oftentimes writing a number down on the business card and handing it to the homeowner and say, Hey, call me if you want to do this. Do you think that the bar is being raised in terms of selling methods in the roofing industry? I mean, I know, you know, the dollars are a lot higher than they were back then, too. Or do you think the bar is still kind of at that level I just mentioned?
Rolf Snobeck:
:I'd like to think that the bar is being raised, but in general I'm going to say no. I'm going to say any given day people are tripping over the bar and that sounds a little harsh. I know, but you know, a little bit of history. You know, 40 years or so ago, warranties entered the market and they've become a litmus test, not so much in the residential end of the world, but on the commercial industrial side where I'm at, that becomes a litmus test. People are, they ask the question, you know, how long is your warranty? Okay, and what's your price? Okay. And now I will say in the last two years, because of supply chain shortages, it's been the first time since I've been on the construction side where value and service became important. Most building owners since I've been over on the construction side, it's all about price and the lowest price. So I got to tell you, when I left the design side, my consulting background, I was shocked because traditionally when you're a professional architect or engineer, that type of thing, there's a process the building owners go through to select who they're going to work with as a design professional. And generally they say, you know, they say we have an issue, but we need to do a needs analysis. You know, what is it we want to try to accomplish? At that point, they put together a request for qualifications and they advertise that. Usually send it out to design professionals to respond to. They get submissions back, they review all the submissions, they make a shortlist. You know, they might get ten submissions back, but they'll sit down and review those and select the three most qualified design professionals. Then they interview them, confirm what they thought and force rank them. This is definitely most qualified, second, third or fourth. They make a selection and then they negotiate a fee. If they can negotiate a fair and equitable fee, they kick out number one and go to number two. But the selection is based upon who is most qualified. So when I when I left the design side of the world and came to the contracting side and the dollars are much higher, I assume that's how all building owners bought roofs. I couldn't have been more wrong. And it took me about two weeks to figure it out. It becomes a couple of things. They need a roof. Back 27 years ago, as I look through the phone book now, they just Google roofing contractor, Whoever shows up on page one, they call him and say, give us a price. Does the roof come under warranty? And they award it to somebody. So the whole process of finding out who's most qualified doesn't exist. But here in the last two years, because of the supply chain shortage, has been the first time since I've been on the side of the fence where your ability to serve was actually the number one criteria. So it's kind of refreshing and it's going to stay that way.
Todd Miller:
:You know, I hadn't hadn't even thought about that. I think that's fascinating. But you're absolutely right. You know, we even see it on the residential side. A typical question from a homeowner anymore is, you know, what's your lead time going to be? And we also see them asking about the qualifications of their workers because they've heard about the skilled trades shortage and problems. So I think that's fascinating that you brought that up.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Well, thank you. The other thing that I would mention is, is that if you're talking about a professional, a professional contractor in professional sales, something I think is real important is that there's some people that are so desperate for the next piece of work, they will force a sale on somebody. And I subscribe to the philosophy of what I call ethical sales. If we can help, I am ethically bound to tell the building owner that I have a solution for them. If, however, I can't help them, I'm also ethically bound to say I'm not the right fit. We shouldn't work together and this is why. I think the world would be a lot easier if that was the approach that everybody took.
Todd Miller:
:No, I loved it. One of the things that I know I will often teach folks is, and it takes what you just said a little bit of a step further, but I'll teach salespeople to have a code of ethics written out that they even present to the customer and say, Hey, if I'm blessed with your business, here's the way I will behave. Here's what you can expect from me, and then sign it.
Rolf Snobeck:
:That's a great idea.
Todd Miller:
:Kind of curious, this is a little bit off script for us, but what are some things that come to mind for you as far as easy ways for a professional contractor to really outshine their competitors?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Well, I'll go back to what I mentioned before, is to sit down, first of all. And when I get in front of a prospect, they reached out to me for whatever reason. And I'm going to be very forthright with them and say, I don't know if we're a fit. We're going to be together for the next hour or two hours, whatever the case is going to be. I'm going to ask you some some questions. Some of them may be difficult to answer, but they will help me determine whether or not we can provide a solution. Are you okay asking with me asking those questions? Invariably, people say yes, and I'll say, conversely, we're probably going to have, you're probably going to ask some questions of me. Are you going to be comfortable asking, asking those? Whatever you have, that's fine. The next step is, Hey, at the end of this hour. I may reach the conclusion that I'm not a fit. And I'm going to tell you that. If you don't think I'm a fit, are you comfortable telling me that as well? And you can actually see people relax because generally speaking, when you're in a sales situation the prospect knows you're a salesman and they're afraid of you. Because the perception is, is that salesman always wants to close the sale, and they're, they don't want to. They're afraid to say too much, you know? So they keep things close to the vest. If that's the way we're going to do. I understand why they're concerned. But we have to get beyond that. And they're usually relieved when they find out that it's okay for them to tell me no. I don't want to be a stalker. I don't want to call them, keep calling them if they don't want to work with us or if they don't think we're a fit. Please tell me. I'll leave you alone now. So I think that goes back to the ethical sales and again. So I don't know if that answers your question.
Ryan Bell:
:I have a little side question. Do you have rebuttals prepared then if somebody tells you no? Do you ask them why you they think, they're not, you might not be a good fit. Like, do you have a a sales process for dealing with that or is that like, okay, I'll get out of your hair?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Well, that would be part of it. We're going to have a free-flowing conversation. We're going to be honest with each other, okay. And I'm going to ask them why they thought that and if they're correct, perhaps we don't do what they're really looking for. That's okay. So I say it's there's no mutual mystification. Everybody has to understand what's going through the mind of the other person. And so I tell people it's okay for them to tell me no if we're not a fit. That's fine. It's okay.
Todd Miller:
:You know, one of the things I often tell salespeople is that, you know, you'll see this moment in a salesperson's career a lot of times where it suddenly the lightbulb goes on that they are selling for the benefit of the customer, not for the benefit of themselves. Everything changes in their career going forward as soon as that lightbulb goes on. So I could tell that that's kind of what you subscribe to as well.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Mm hmm. Yeah, I would agree with that. I like the way you said that. That's absolutely true.
Todd Miller:
:So switching gears a tiny bit, over the length of your career in this industry, are there a couple, three things that come to mind to you? Could be products, could be technology that have really been significant game changers in the roofing industry.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Well, there's been, interesting question. There's been a couple of significant changes. When I started back in 1978, you really had a choice between was it going to be an asphalt roof or a built-up roof or a an asphalt built-up roof or a coal tar pitch built-up? They were both black. They were both sticky, but they're chemically different. Those were your choices. And in the commercial world and in the early 80s, single-ply technologies as we know them today came out of the market. Literally hundreds of companies entered the market, hundreds exited the market, just trying out new stuff. Some some worked, most didn't. But we went from essentially two technologies to today, you have hundreds of choices, so it's more complicated than ever. So in the 1980s, a bunch of technologies came out, like I mentioned, but two really stuck, which was modified bitumen membranes, APP and SBS modified. In the 90s, EPDM really took off. And then since the turn of the century, white thermoplastic, whether it be PVC or TPO, have really become predominant, that's more code-driven than anything else. So but today, there's so many iterations that you really got to keep your head on a level because there's always something new. So as opposed to two choices 45 years ago, you've got hundreds of choices now in all kinds of generic families. So it's a very complicated world. The other, I guess, game changer that I would think about would be product failures. And I can think of a couple of significant ones. One was a product that came out, it had to be in the early eighties was phenolic insulation, and everybody's familiar with that. But it was a higher R factor foam insulation, higher factor than the Polyiso that everybody is familiar with today. It only had one bad side effect, in that if you got it wet, it became highly corrosive and it caused roof decks to rust through and collapse and bad stuff. A huge financial loss for the manufacturers because they had to come in and pay to replace roofs that were otherwise serviceable, but they had to get rid of them before there was a catastrophic failure. The other thing was one of the products from the early 80s was unreinforced PVC with a liquid plasticizer. Without reinforcement, the product would get brittle. So PVC by natural, its natural state is a brittle, hard, brittle material. Think of the PVC pipe you get it at Home Depot. When you get it in a roof membrane, it's very flexible. They put liquid plasticizers in there to make it flexible. When it first was introduced to the market, there was no reinforcement and the plasticizers were not stable. They would exit the sheet. So that roof membrane that was nice and pliable when it was installed would get rock solid. And you walk out and it shattered. There'd be a big temperature change, it would shatter. The manufacturers, God bless them, they replaced those roofs. Huge financial loss. So how has that been a game changer, in my opinion? I think products are better now than they ever have been because there was a lesson learned from manufacturers. They paid out a lot of claims. They'd rather not do that.
Todd Miller:
:Absolutely.
Rolf Snobeck:
:I think roof performance is better today than it was at any time in history. That, to me, is a game changer.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, good stuff. So as you look at the roofing industry today, what are some of the major challenges you see facing the industry today and, you know, maybe over the next few years?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Actually, you know, obviously the biggest challenge of the last two years has been the supply chain issue. You know, I handle probably 200 projects a year. And in years past, you know, there's always a problem job every every year. Last year if I handled 200 jobs, there were 200 problem jobs because there was something you couldn't get. So if you saw me two years ago, I had brown hair and now it's gray. So that's the biggest challenge. That's supposed to be getting better. The amazing thing is that in 2020, we had COVID in all construction, all buying everything stopped for four months. And then in around August of that year, everybody found out the world wasn't going to end. And we were directed to get all the work done that had been that was scheduled for that cap all year. So I talk about 2020 as being the year that we did twelve months worth of work in eight months, and it's like we were glad when that was behind us. But that was actually a day at the beach compared to the last two years with the supply chain issues. As far as moving forward, the biggest challenge I see is labor. We just simply can't. We could hire hundreds of people if they were available. But there's just not enough skilled labor, and I'll lay that at the hands of. I talked about how I got in the industry taking shop classes 45 years ago. Shop classes, by and large, are not being provided in high schools. And I, my thinking is it's not that young kids don't want to do this work. They're not being exposed to using their hands. And I bet you half the population, if they were, if they got to pick up a hammer and saw in school and actually build something, they may say, Hey this is pretty cool, I want to employ these skills as a building trade.
Todd Miller:
:That's good stuff. Yeah, I agree with you. So I know that NRCA has started their ProCertification project, which isn't necessarily a top of the funnel to bring people in, but it's really geared towards recognizing the skill levels that people do reach with training. And I'm curious, what do you think about it? Have you been exposed to that program at all or do you have any thoughts on it?
Rolf Snobeck:
:I think the program's great. I know some younger guys have been through it. I know some of the trainers. I think it's a wonderful thing. You know, traditionally in construction, the training program was tell the apprentice to go do this. And after he screws it up, tell him he did it wrong, okay. So I think it's a great thing that people have got 30 and 40 years of training that know the right procedures are working in a almost classroom setting. The NRCA has put together the right way to coach them, but to get the younger people up to speed more quickly. And I think it does a couple of things. It provides them getting to being journeymen more quickly. It reduces problems on the roof building owners thinking, Oh, the contractor did shoddy work. If the person doesn't know how to execute, yeah, they're probably right. It helps improve the performance of the roofs because they're being built right the same time being built right up to the first experience. And it helps eliminate contractors having a bad reputation because work is being done right at the get go. So sorry to ramble, but I think it's a great program.
Todd Miller:
:Good. No, I'm glad to hear that. I know we're excited about it and have been involved a little bit in the metal side development as well. And so we're excited about it. You kind of alluded to this earlier, do you see property owners and managers sometimes in bigger properties being more proactive or hands on in terms of roof management these days? And if so, do you think that's a good thing?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Yes, that is a wonderful thing. But it rarely happens. So we talk about it with virtually every client and it usually falls on deaf ears. And here is a reason, this is where the whole warranty thing you've heard me talk about it online is a hindrance to progress. And as I mentioned, the typical commercial roof comes with a 20 year warranty, and will last less than 17 years. Why is that? Part of it might be it might be the wrong roof for the building. So I always make analogies to the auto industry. If you're a drywall contractor, what's the appropriate vehicle for you to use an F-150 or a Toyota Corolla to haul sheetrock? Okay. They both got four wheels. I'm here to tell you, after a year, one's going to be running pretty good and the other one's going to be toast. So they're both wonderful vehicles, but they're not both appropriate for the same thing. And you can apply that same principle to roofing, use different roofs for different applications. The other thing is when you buy a new car, it comes with a warranty and it says you got to change the oil twice a year. There are certain specific things you do. And when a light bulb, when a headlight burns out that's not covered by the warranty. You need to fix that. When the wipers wear out, you need to replace it. That's part of the upkeep and restoration of the car. The warranty on your roof is no different. You have to inspect the roof twice a year, you need to keep the drains clear. The sealant and clogging are considered a maintenance item. As they start to crack, you must renew those most building owners don't. And that's the reason the roofs fail before the warranty expires. So if you want a new car with a 50,000 mile warranty and it didn't last 50,000 miles, you'd be furious. They last far longer than that because by and large, people maintain them. Roofs could last far longer than the warranty if they're maintained. So there's some customers that we work with that get it. I'm going to say the lion's share still don't understand the concept, but we're screaming from the rooftops.
Todd Miller:
:I love your explanation there, though. That's absolutely spot-on and good stuff. So I think I saw someplace where you referred to yourself as The Practical Environmentalist.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Mm hmm.
Todd Miller:
:Do I have that correct?
Rolf Snobeck:
:You have that correct.
Todd Miller:
:Okay, so what does that mean to you when it comes to roofing? Help me understand that.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Okay. Well, you know, what's the definition of sustainability? It's to maintain, according to Webster's, at a certain rate or level. Okay. I've got a lot of friends in the architectural world and in the building owner world that I think look at it a little bit different. Their idea of sustainability is let's install everything brand new, the highest efficiency. And, you know, think of all the energy we'll save down the road. Okay, that's fine. But from a purely environmental or sustainability perspective, you know, if we took care of what we own, it doesn't have to wind up in the landfill. Okay. So you can put on a high efficiency roof. But the payback on heating costs over the term of that thing probably won't pay for the cost of the work. So it's a matter of being practical. However, if we take care of that roof, it might last for years or decades longer and not needlessly go to the landfill. So I, you know, I made the analogy already about automobiles. I us,. When it comes to this, the analogy of lighting. My bride and I, we bought a new house 14 years ago, and as we've kind of morphed in our needs, I've tried to change some of the lighting. The lighting that was installed here 14 years ago was no longer available. Because there's more higher efficiency lighting. So to have everything match the stuff that was put on 14 years ago, I got to tear it out and throw it into the landfill. So I get everything matching. Is that practical? Okay, so that's where I'm coming from. And then, you know, from a purely if we take care of stuff. You know, like I said, keep it at a certain rate or level, maintain it over the long term. We're not sending stuff to the landfill. If you do need to reroof, if you do need to go that way, that's fine. Use the high efficiency stuff. But if possible, what you're tearing off, recycle it. There's membranes out there that can be recycled, there's insulation that can be recycled. Don't put it in the landfill and then consider solutions for new materials that come from recycled goods. So that helps as well. And so there are membranes on the market now that have been on the market for 30 years or more. Essentially the same products that came out in the 1980s. They work, they might cost an incrementally more than what I call commodity products. But if they're going to last 30 or 40 years, doesn't that make sense? So that's the reason I call myself the Practical Environmentalist. You don't need to start over. You don't need to throw everything away. Use something good, take care of it. It lasts for decades.
Todd Miller:
:Good stuff. Well, you know, we talked a little bit earlier about the labor shortage and shortage of skilled labor. And, you know, you talked about how a lot of it's just, you know, young folks aren't exposed to what we do in some of these trades. What advice would you have, though, for a younger person who has identified they'd like to get involved in roofing more? Where do you think they might find good career opportunities?
Rolf Snobeck:
:So I would say, get involved in the industry. Come on in, the water's great, okay. We keep the pool warm. But you know, the NRCA, IIBEC, CSI, Construction Specifications Institute all have great educational seminars. We talked about ProCertification from NRCA. Learn, there's a lot of good companies and there's resources besides just your employer where you can get information from abroad. And you know, we've met through LinkedIn and stuff. There's other information out there. Educate yourself.
Todd Miller:
:Good stuff. Well, Rolf thanks so much, this has been great. We really are close to wrapping up what we call the business end of things. Is there anything we haven't covered today that you'd like to share with our audience?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Interesting. Can I do some shameless promotion?
Todd Miller:
:Absolutely, we'd love that.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Yeah. This is not for Tecta, but I talked a little bit about how I got into the industry, and that I was fortunate 45 years ago to be able to work part of the year and pay for college. That's just not the case. The cost of college has gotten outrageously expensive, so it's higher, harder than ever to get a degree in higher education for people that are going that direction. So here in Northern Illinois, we have in our organization, we call it the Chicago Area Chapter Building Envelope Foundation. And it's set up specifically to help students that are going to college, that are looking at a career in the building envelope arena. So if you know somebody from Northern Illinois that's in college and is looking at a career in this area, go to cac-bef.org and have them fill out an application. We're here to help. It's hard for them to get through college and this is a means to help them help them with that. If you've been successful and you want to help with the scholarship fund, we'd love to talk to you as well.
Todd Miller:
:Awesome. And you said that's cac-bef.org?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Yes sir.
Todd Miller:
:So could folks who wanted to get involved in helping support that, they could go to the website as well and make connections there?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Yes, and our contact information is, all of the trustees are listed there so you can reach out to any of us and we'd love to have a conversation with you. And the application forms. So we help students studying, we help organizations that are doing research as well with scholarships.
Todd Miller:
:Well, thank you for doing that. I was not aware of that. I hadn't run across that with you yet, so that's fantastic, thank you. Well, before we close out, I have to ask if you're willing to participate in something we call our rapid-fire questions. So we're Rolf, these are seven questions. Some are little serious, some are little silly. All you got to do is give a quick answer to each one. And our audience needs to understand, if Rolf agrees to this, he has no clue what we're going to ask him. So are you up to the challenge of rapid-fire? Awesome.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Bring it on. Come on. What's the worst that can happen?
Todd Miller:
:Okay, we will alternate asking. You want to ask the first one, Ryan?
Ryan Bell:
:Sure, I'd be glad to. Question number one, if you could magically and instantly learn one new skill, what would it be?
Rolf Snobeck:
:I thought these were going to be easy. Can I go back? One new skill. You know what? And this is purely personal. I'd love to know how to ski.
Todd Miller:
:Awesome.
Ryan Bell:
:Snow ski, water ski?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Snow ski, yeah.
Todd Miller:
:That would be a cool one.
Rolf Snobeck:
:The last time I tried, I almost died, but I think that would be a fun thing.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, my. Okay. Second question, what is your favorite meal?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Meatloaf.
Todd Miller:
:Awesome. That's what I had for lunch, good deal.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Notice the food questions I had no issue with.
Ryan Bell:
:Most people don't.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Yeah.
Ryan Bell:
:First car you ever owned?
Rolf Snobeck:
:There's a reason I mentioned the Toyota Corolla.
Todd Miller:
:That was your first car.
Rolf Snobeck:
:First car.
Ryan Bell:
:I had to bite my tongue. I really wanted to make a joke about a Toyota Corolla outlasting a Ford F-150.
Rolf Snobeck:
:They may without the sheetrock being tied down.
Todd Miller:
:That's right, that's right. Well, speaking of being remembered for, next question. What ultimately would you like to be remembered for?
Rolf Snobeck:
:I hope people remember that I'm, I believe that I'm fundamentally honest, maybe to a fault. My mom and dad told me not to lie, and I just can't.
Todd Miller:
:Can't beat that, good stuff.
Ryan Bell:
:Now, what would the six year old Rolf have said he wanted to be when he grew up?
Rolf Snobeck:
:You know, that's interesting. I don't know the answer to that question. But I can tell you, when we moved into our new home, I found my report cards from grade school back when they were handwritten. And I was every, all of my teachers, kindergarten through sixth grade, all wrote that Rolf daydreams. He just looks outside all day. So there's a reason I do what I do. If I had to sit by a desk every day, I'd go nuts. But I get to climb up a ladder and get outside. So I didn't know what I was going to do, but I had to be free to roam.
Todd Miller:
:You were a dreamer, good stuff. Okay. Next one's mine, isn't it? Have you ever had a nickname? And if so, what was that nickname?
Rolf Snobeck:
:I'm going to go with no.
Todd Miller:
:Oh, that's a good answer.
Rolf Snobeck:
:No nickname.
Ryan Bell:
:How many times have you changed your residence in your adult life?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Four.
Todd Miller:
:That's not very many. That's about where I am too.
Rolf Snobeck:
:So, technically three because I moved back into one. But there was.
Todd Miller:
:Well, that's, there's got to be a story there.
Rolf Snobeck:
:We don't need to go there, but.
Todd Miller:
:Well, Rolf, this has been a real pleasure. We've greatly enjoyed it. Thank you so much. So for folks who may want to get in touch with you. Of course, I know you're on LinkedIn, but what are some easy ways for them to get in touch with you?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Easiest way to reach me is my phone is always near me, 630-514-1867. It's probably the easiest way. They can email me, but just give me a call. I always return my calls.
Todd Miller:
:I love that personal touch. That's good stuff. And that that shows what you're all about. So that's cool. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Ralph. It's been a pleasure. And I'd like to oh, I do have one thing I need to remember and tell us all about our challenge words. We were all successful at using our challenge words. In fact, Ryan and I jumped the gun and got them in before I even talked about us having challenge words. Ryan, your challenge word was?
Ryan Bell:
:Pedantic, and I did wonder when I said it I'm like, Oh, we haven't even talked. You've haven't even mentioned them yet. I don't know if this counts.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, I just went with it. So then right after that I used peacock and Rolf, your word was?
Rolf Snobeck:
:Ambulate.
Todd Miller:
:Yes, and you worked it in well.
Rolf Snobeck:
:That was a little bit of fun. Thanks for throwing that in there. I appreciate it.
Rolf Snobeck:
:Todd Miller: Well, we try to have fun here. Try our best. So anyway, well, I want to thank our audience for tuning into this episode of Construction Disruption with Rolf Snobeck, the Roofing Guy, and he is with Tecta America. Please watch for and join us for future episodes of our podcast. We're always blessed with fantastic guests. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. Until the next time we're together, change the world for someone, make them smile, encourage them. Simple yet powerful things we can all do to change the world. God bless, take care. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.