Intellectual connection is great, but emotional connection makes people act. Debra Ohstrom, CFA, breaks down what women want from their financial professional.

You know, Julie, over time, we’ve done a lot of work and a lot of research on future demographic trends. And one of the biggest demographic trends that stands out, not just in financial services, but across many industries, is that the future is female. And, that probably doesn’t come as a surprise to anyone. However, sometimes in the financial services business, I feel that male advisors sometimes have a tough time adapting to the language and preferences of their female customers. Have you seen that, throughout your career?

Yes, I have, and I think it can be a challenge just because oftentimes there aren’t necessarily multiple females on the advisory team. Also, I think historically the financial professional maybe has worked with the male clients. And so the questions and the nomenclature has historically been guided towards the male client. And so I think historically some habits have formed and maybe can be change going forward that can help create new bonds with female clients and prospects to really help solidify those relationships going forward.

I think it’s also a little bit, Julie, about the changing value proposition in our industry. Right. So it used to be that in order to win business, I had to prove myself in terms of everything that I or my firm would do for a client. And I’m not saying that’s still not part of it, but it seems to me, and I mentioned this in our conversation with David Ostrom today, that it’s not just about what we do, it’s about who we are. Our clients really want a better understanding of of who we are. And I think you see that as well, right?

Yes. It’s the human side of what we do. It’s connecting with us on an emotional level, what our story is, the why about what we do. And I think so often so many financial professionals have an incredibly compelling why they went through a personal story or a life event that got them into the industry. That is very captivating, and the ability to be a little bit vulnerable and to share that story has an amazing connection point and to be able to open up and really share that with passion and conviction, as opposed to leading with the credentials and the experience. And this the success rate and the investment returns, that doesn’t have quite as much of an emotional connection as that. Why story does.

So, Julie, in a moment, I’ll ask you to introduce to all of our listeners and our guest, who Deb Ostrom is and why we invited her on the podcast. But as an added bonus, I’d like to add for our listeners that if they hang in there till the end of this podcast, they’ll get to hear about how my co-host, Julie Genjac dominated her little niece in a game of Hungry Hungry Hippos. So I definitely, definitely recommend staying on towards the end.

I have a woman of many talents. What can I say?

Well, Julie, why don’t you share a little about Deb Ostrom and and why we invited her on our podcast today?

I am really excited to introduce Debra Ostrom, CFA. She is a speaker and educator on finance and investing topics. She has worked in the finance, invest and investing industry for over 27 years at large financial firms out of New York such as Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup Private Bank and Allianz Global Investors. Debra also offers easy to understand finance and investing courses through live workshops and online on her website at Debra ostrom.com.

So now let’s invite all of you to listen in on a conversation that Julie and I recently had with Debra Ostrom. Hi, I’m John.

and I’m Julie

We’re the hosts of the Hartford Funds Human Centric Investing podcast.

Every other week, we’re talking with inspiring thought leaders.

To hear their best.

Ideas for how you can transform your relationships with your clients.

Let’s go.

Debra, thank you so much for joining us on the Human Centric Investing podcast today. We’re so excited to have you here.

Thank you, Julie and John. I am super excited to be here.

Well, Debra, our episode today, focus focuses on a topic that’s really popular across the industry and honestly has been for quite a while now. It’s about the differences between men and women, their preference for financial advisors. And Debra, I think you bring a very unique perspective in that, not only are you obviously a woman yourself, but you’re a very accomplished female financial professional, so you kind of have gotten to see it from both sides of the desk or whatever. But over the course of your career, what do you think it is that most motivates female investors in terms of engagement with a financial professional?

Great question. You know, I think that women want to be understood by financial advisors, and unfortunately, they don’t really feel that way. All the studies are showing that, you know, they do feel patronized or left out of the conversation. So, I’ve been going through so many different studies out there that are giving us great information. They’ve only been done these past few years. And the fact is that men and women, we do view the world differently. And my approach is that, you know what? That’s okay. It’s not about intent or blame, but why don’t we just admit it? That we look at the world differently, we communicate differently, and this way we can come to so much better outcomes if we’re just upfront about that. Especially when 80% of all financial advisors in the industry are men and women are really struggling. So we need to kind of bridge the gap. And I really am very passionate about helping that happen. So, it’s a super important topic to me.

Debra, you mentioned bridging the gap. And it’s interesting as we read articles and see headlines and think about women’s needs versus men’s needs, especially as we think about longevity. As you’ve engaged in conversations both with financial professionals and with clients, what differing needs have you discovered and what has been the conversation like as you’ve engaged on that path from a perspective of client needs? And how can we educate financial professionals around the conversations with female clients around what they truly need and how to serve them better?

Yes. And let me start off by saying so I, you know, I’m not a financial advisor. I’ve, you know, been in the industry for very long. It’s always been around investing. I am a CFA and I’ve worked with financial advisors for many years, and I’ve started this business from the approach of educating and working with women, because what I found is they have a lot of negative beliefs, about whether it’s the industry or investing in general and, you know, and, and a mistrust of the industry. So it’s, I think in my heart and what it seems is women need more choices in getting education so that they can then feel confident to go out to advisors, have that conversation and be the active participant in the industry. And even when you know, you see a lot of married couples, and I have heard stories of women blocking the financial advisor from their phone, not, you know, being ignored in the meetings. So they stop attending. And, and a whole history of, you know, other stories. And this goes back to I don’t think it’s intent. I think it’s just misunderstanding. And I think we’re kind of at a point in the industry where it can’t be ignored anymore. You know, I know that we’ve all heard about the great generational wealth transfer that’s going on. But even putting that aside, there’s, you know, Pew Research, 45% of all married women now make the same or more than their spouse. You’ve got more women going to college than men. You’ve got more women going to law school and men. And it just kind of passed the threshold where there’s more women law associates in the country now than men. So we’re not at a point anymore where this, you know, women as a client segment can be ignored. And, you know, a lot of the studies show that women do feel patronized. They want to be understood, and they want to be treated as an equal. Over 80% of all women that were married said, I want to be treated as an equal partner. And and they’re not. And close to 55% of women. And I’ve seen this statistic kind of, you know, fluctuate depending on what type of women were surveyed. But roughly 55% said they’d rather have a female advisor and, or, and it was even higher. And they said that or at least see one woman on the advisor team. So then you couple that with the fact that I’ve seen statistics where roughly 55% of advisor teams don’t have any women on them, there’s just not enough women to hire, unfortunately, right now. And I know we all want to change that, but I’m of the, you know, passion right now where it’s I don’t want to wait the 10 or 20 years. That’s like going to take too long. So what can I do now to help, male advisors better connect, use the right language, understand what the studies are, showing, what the negative beliefs are to help everyone you know have the better outcomes. So hopefully that answers the question.

And Debra, you mentioned earlier and and obvious to everyone in the industry, it is a male dominated industry in terms of the financial advisors themselves. And I guess the question is, let’s say I’m a sole proprietor. I own my own business, I’m an independent rep. I don’t have any other team members, let alone a female team member. Is it over for me in terms of these, that this future pool of clients or going into conversations, let’s say there is a new prospect, either a couple or a single woman coming in. What are some things I should be cognizant of? Even before that, that woman or that couple walks into my office?

That’s absolutely. It’s not over for you. Absolutely. It’s.

I am glad to hear that.

That. Yes, man. You know, it’s it’s about this awareness of what language am I using? What are, you know, what are her concerns versus his concerns? If it’s a couple and if it’s, you know, a single woman, what what is she thinking about? And you so and kind of understanding too. What are some of these negative beliefs that she may be walking in the door with? That I can either ask the right. Questions to find out if she has the negative beliefs or if she does. What do I need to say to overcome that? So we can just get that off the table and. So it’s like there’s there is a very unfortunate lack of education about long term investing in, you know, when you do the studies for women. And what I’ve seen is they blame themselves and think that they should know this information already and they shouldn’t. So you almost immediately need to make them feel off the hook for that. And it’s not their fault because you don’t get taught this in high school. Maybe they might start doing some things now, but they never did. You know, years ago or even in college, they don’t give you investing, education or financial education unless you’re a finance major. So doctors, lawyers, honestly, it’s men and women. They they, you know, are embarrassed that they don’t know this. And then unfortunately, you have the internet, which as great as the internet is, it also supplies a lot of misinformation. And I have seen there are so many people that think short term trading and long term investing are the same thing. And we all know that it’s not, and the power of compounding and all these things that if you can get a sense of how comfortable they are around these topics and if they’re not and you think they’re embarrassed, you can immediately put them at ease and say, you know, I’m here to be your partner. And I think that word partner also is very important because. And this goes into the styles of men and women, you know, and I go deeper into this where it’s these men and women communicate differently and use language differently, and men tend to use language to share information, prove authority and establish their hierarchy in the conversation. And women use language to build connection and community. And we need that before we’re going to pass judgment as to whether we would want to work with you as an advisor. So if you’re coming at it with detailed info and statistics and proving your authority, you know, a woman who might be interpreting that is being talked down to or talked at instead of, you know, going at it with open ended questions, validating their concerns and building that connection first, and then going into, you know, how you help people. And the other thing I think that, a lot of advisors don’t realize is success stories of how you’ve helped others is so important, but even the stories that, how you talk about that story is very important, where men tend to share stories about, conquests and things that they’ve done well. But the story should really be about what other female clients have you coached and partnered with and made them the hero of their own story and helped them get through their whatever pain point that is? So it really just it a lot of it is communication style. And obviously women do have some unique financial planning needs. I’m not an expert planner by any means, but you know, we are more risk averse, which I think is really around lack of education and health issues. You know, like you were saying, longevity issues. And if you factor in, I thought this was really interesting. Women tend to live six years longer than men, but 38% of second marriages have an age difference of at least 13 years. So if you put those two together, you know, the woman really needs to be involved in that financial plan and those outcomes.

It’s so interesting. And thank you for those high level talking points and that guidance. I mean, I think that framework is so helpful. And it sounds to me like a lot of this is so much practice and preparation. Well, in advance of ever even meeting with the client or prospect. Do you have any favorite questions that you’ve gleaned from the women that you’ve worked with, or as you’ve gone through these processes that you’ve learned really help, you know, kind of indoctrinate that relationship or really kind of crack the door open to building that relationship. As you’ve gone through this, you know, and worked with different advisors and or clients that are just some of those great questions that start that relationship on the right foot.

I, you know, it’s it’s it is a lot of open ended type questions because and this goes back to a lot of those surveys. You know, women want the advisor to feel that they understand them. And their unique situation was something like over 90%. And it is, you know, very clear that if it is if it is a couple. What the husband might view as the what our our goals. You know what are you most concerned about? The woman might have a very different, you know, outlook as to what are those goals. You know, what is going what do you how do you view a successful whatever it is, retirement? How how do you rank being able to pay for your grandkids, you know, college education. So it’s crafting those open ended questions, making sure both people participate. Because that often can be a big issue if one person is more dominant of a speaker than the other. But the other thing to also start out with is, you know, getting to know them personally as, as a, as a human. What what is she accomplished in life? You know, what what is whether it’s children or career. And it’s also a big thing is showing that you respect them, which is, you know, saying phrases like, wow, I really respect the fact that you had this career and you have also raised three beautiful children, you know, when do you find time for yourself or you know, things that show that you actually think about them as a person and all those things that they’ve accomplished? And then going into the questions of, you know, your goals versus your view of success and your fears as opposed to your partners. And, you know, if they don’t have a partner, at least you’re doing that deeper dive into getting to know them as a person. And that’s what’s going to build the connection. Not, you know, what your return was last year. So.

Debra, what how important do you think it is to have for advisors, especially male advisors, to have what I’ll call vulnerability stories? Right? Because a lot of times if we’re communicating with a new client, we might want them to know everything we do and how good we are at it. And as you said, what our authority is. But when I hear you say that oftentimes women aren’t as confident and we have to make them feel at ease because there’s no natural place to get education. For example, would you recommend telling a story about maybe not only an investment mistake that maybe a client might have made, but maybe even a false assumption that I had myself as a financial professional to help them better understand that it’s okay, right? We may not know everything, but we can work together to try and find an answer and solve the problem. Right? That’s I think sometimes when I ask advisors to tell me their story, what I get is what they do, not who they are.

That’s that’s totally, totally it. And I think it’s also, you know, when you are trying to draw out fears or pain points with a woman if, if you can relate. And it’s not even necessarily about something the adviser did, but but to show that you have empathy and say, I, I can understand that because you have it. Maybe your situation happened with your mom or your daughter or your wife, and you can say, you know, obviously I’m not a woman, but I think I can understand what you’re going through because I had this happen with this important woman in my life, whoever it was. And that shows that you do have empathy and understanding. And I think what you said around, you know, we’ll figure this out together is huge because that the women have said that they want a partner, not a dictator. So yes, they they think you are an expert by the years in the industry that you have, you know, the the level of knowledge that you have. But they went they want their, opinions and fears to be validated. And, you know, an important part of the decision making process. So you’re you’re absolutely right. And that, once again, is what’s going to build the trust and the connection. And once you kind of can get into that habit of, of approaching things from that way and you start getting more connections with female clients, they’re the ones that refer their, you know, they tell all their friends, so that it just is going to build upon itself. So there you go. It’s it’s definitely not over for any male advisor out there.

Debra, I’m curious what your thoughts are on, female client events and sort of educational opportunities. I’ll speak from my perspective. I’ve been fortunate to be part of many women events through the years, and I’ve always found that they’re very special. They’re just that the environment seems to foster great dialog and lots of excellent questions and discussions. And oftentimes women share a lot of personal stories or, you know, challenges, triumphs. And it just seems like a really great, safe space to do so. And it seems like everyone really learns from each other. And it’s just been really powerful moments. I always leave those events feeling like just, again, kind of this wow moment, like we’ve all learned from each other. We’ve bonded and it was just a really special opportunity. Is that something that you’ve found as well as you’ve worked with groups and worked with advisors, that those are important from an educational standpoint as well, from a relationship building standpoint?

Absolutely 100%. And and you know, there is a bit of a challenge because I do think that it does, you know, help the advisor if it is led by a woman. And this is where the challenge comes in and is probably why, you know, more advisors don’t want to take that leap. So, but I actually do do that on behalf of advisors and see myself as an extension of them to, to help organize that and run that. And I think even, you know, doing things along the lines of mother daughter events, so can be really meaningful because, you know, the younger generation, I think is is finally starting to get engaged earlier than, perhaps their mother was. So it is a great opportunity, to have a great event for a client or have them bring a friend. And it. Yeah, I agree totally where you know, it really. You leave with this wonderful feeling of everything that went on during that time. So they are there. I think they’re great to have for everyone.

Debra. And past research that we’ve done, with couples, we’ve looked at the different models that couples use for managing money. And, one of the models and sadly, a prevalent model is one we call driver passenger, right where one person does the driving and one’s just along for the ride. And we know all financial professionals, especially men, should be aware that the driver isn’t always the male. However, if we get into a situation where, she says, you know, I’m not really that interested in any of this stuff, he makes all the money decisions. Whatever he says is fine. How would you if you were sitting in my seat? Engage that woman to make sure that she is as much a part of these conversations as she can be, because as a financial planner, financial advisor, I know that at some point she may wind up being the driver, whether she thinks she is now or not. But what’s the best way to engage someone who seems disinterested? I don’t want to deal with it. It’s it’s too much for me. He does all that. How would how would you how would you proceed there?

I think it’s great. And that is the huge challenge of the industry right now because I, you know, I hear it all the time. I’ve asked the wife to attend the meeting and she just doesn’t want to come. And I think it probably is one of the, you know, going to be the biggest challenge to go from if you’ve had that client for ten years or even five years and, and the woman never attended and now you’re kind of starting this, it’s you have to be realistic. It’s going to take time. You’re building this relationship now from scratch, and you’re going to have to use this, campaign, so to speak, and, you know, email topics that have to that you, you, I would hope, are emailing both of them, on a regular basis, whether she’s responding or not, you still have to email, whether, you know, newsletters and and really take a critical eye are these topics that I think that she’s going to be interested in. And then there’s the events and then there’s phone calls. You know, hopefully you haven’t been blocked by now. And you can’t she will pick up the phone and you have to and I hate to use this term, but do a sales job and convince her why it’s so important for her to be there. And I always think start small. Don’t don’t you know if you’re doing quarterly meetings? She doesn’t have to come to every quarter, but get her there once a year and say, let’s just start small. We’ll do a big annual meeting. At least you’ll be, you know, on the same page and then say, I want your input, because here’s all the issues that you’re going to be different than your spouse. And we’re not including this in your plan. You’re two times more likely to get to Mencia than he is. You’re four times more likely to get an autoimmune disease. I don’t know if you have the right long term care insurance. I don’t know your family’s medical history. I. I want to talk to you. It’s, you know, and maybe you do have to apologize and say, I’m sorry. I have an email to you in five years, you know, whatever. But the world has changed. I’ve changed. And I want you to be a part of the conversation. And I think. You know that. The thing is, I also get a sense that sometimes. Well, I, you know, I emailed the wife once or twice and she never responded. So they gave up. And, you know, if you it could take, you know, a year or two of consistent, you know, touch points to convince her that it’s important for her to be a part of the conversation. And, you know, women like to test. So how sincere is he really is he going to is he in this for the long haul? You know, is this a long term relationship for him, or is he just going to try and give up? So you have to prove yourself, but it’s definitely doable if you do those things. But it is a huge challenge. I know, and we all know the statistics. You know, 70% of widows and divorcees change advisors within 12 months. And based on what I seen, I, I think that’s right. Or maybe it could even be higher. So it is definitely a challenge.

Thanks for that.

Yeah.

As you think about the opportunity to build those relationships. I think it was interesting how you said, you know, I tried once or twice and they didn’t respond, and so I gave up. You know, when I think about a financial professional, right, they have hundreds of households, but that’s households. And then you start thinking about the people, right. So then maybe you double the number of clients and that’s and then, you know, there’s a lot of moving parts and there’s markets. And then that’s their team. And and that’s that’s a lot of things to manage. And how do you think about, you know, if there was a way for financial professionals to really prioritize the women and, and building those relationships, if they were to think about, you know, the top three things to do in in your mind, if they were to build that action plan, say, over the next 12 months, to really assess how their relationships scored or how to deepen them. If you were going through sitting side by side with them and starting that process, how would you start to attack this? I’m just curious, you know, for anyone that wants to really start to assess their book and really the strength of those female relationships, because I’m sure we have listeners right now that are saying, you know, I, I think I have pretty strong relationships, but now I’m wondering, you know, am I the one that said it’s done that where I’m like, well, they they didn’t respond after two emails. So there’s there’s nothing else I can do. You know, if they really wanted to go through that, that diligent process of, of, you know, household by household assessing that, that, you know, the strength of the female relationship. How how Debra, would you go through that?

Yeah. Great. Great point. And it is, you know, starting to go through and to have that critical eye on your current client list and looking at, you know, what percentage of the wives are attending and how many single women do I have as clients, you know, that that might even give you a story right there. As to maybe I’m approaching this, you know, or I need to approach this in a different way to increase these numbers. And it’s, you know, first of all, one of the things, once you kind of have that list of, okay, I haven’t I know this wife doesn’t attend very often. You can, you know, surveys, right. We you talk to them, send them an email and say, I’m doing the survey. I want to understand what you know. What are you worried about? If they don’t know, do I. Can I answer all these questions about the wife and her family and their daughters? Do I know what they’re worried about? What keeps them up at night, what their vision of success is. And if you can’t, then they probably are. You know, you should be going after them. And the there there are things in technology now that, you know, depending on compliance and what you talk about. But I think also. Everyone doesn’t realize that, you know, you can do video emails, which still gives a personal connection. Starts that process of giving the personal connection to someone. If they see you for even a short 62nd clip, they feel like they have made a touchpoint with you and you don’t even realize it. And getting those emails that might be more female oriented. So if you’re doing that, and, you know, being honest with yourself, am I doing this enough? I’ve talked to, so I, you know, if I’m at conferences, etc. and sitting next to, a woman and then I tell her what I do, she’s like, wow, I’m really, I fall into that. My husband is the one that talks to the advisor and I don’t. And I said, well, why? And she’s like, well, when they meet, they just grab a beer and talk about sports and I’m just not interested. And she’s. And then she said, shame on me. I guess I should force myself to go. And I’m like, no, shame on the advisor for not at least one meeting out of the year, saying, I want to take you to dinner and let’s not talk about sports. What’s what’s important to you. So, you know, I think that probably it’s easy to do that as an advisor. And I think if they just have, you know, a little more self respect, self-reflection, about, you know, how these meetings are operating. They probably could, you know, realize that with a few different things, they could really just change the whole trajectory of their business, really.

Well, Debra, as we near the end of our podcast today, Julie and I have a little exercise that actually financial professionals may find helpful. It’s what we call lightning round of questions. And then our lightning round if you’re game. We are going to ask you a bunch of questions that have nothing to do with the topic we just talked about, but everything to do with who Deb Rostrum is. And really thinking about what we’re looking for is your top of the head answered your top a head response so that our listeners can learn a little bit more about you. So if that’s okay, we’ll get ready and fire away.

All right. Fire away.

And, Julie, why don’t you take the first question?

Okay. On a scale of 1 to 10, how good of a driver are you?

Oh ten. No. I’m kidding. oh. Say seven.

There you go. Love it. Would you rather binge a TV show or watch a movie?

Binge a TV show.

Are you a morning person or a night owl?

Oh. That’s it. Going to say Night Owl. Let’s be honest.

I’m going to follow up on my last question because I’m always looking for good ideas. What’s the last TV show that you binge watched?

Gosh, I’m I’m it’s kind of between two. You know, I never watched billions before and we’ve been watching that. But the other shows I’ve been getting into are these sci fi, you know, robots that look like humans. And I’m like, oh my God, this is going to happen. We’re all going to have robot humans in our house soon. So I’m obsessed with that now.

Good stuff.

What’s the best age?

The best age. This is probably going to today. All we have is to today and right now. So I’m trying to make it a good one.

Love it.

What is your favorite outdoor temperature?

Oh, 80. 80 degrees.

Wow. I like it warm.

That’s a toasty one.

Yeah, I’m. I live in Charleston, South Carolina now. I grew up on Long Island in New York, and I couldn’t wait to get out of the cold weather, so.

Makes sense.

Are you a fan of a paper to do list or a digital one?

Yeah, I’m over 50. So it’s paper. Oh.

Would you describe yourself as an introvert or an extrovert? And would your family agree with your assessment?

Wow. You know, I think that’s such a great question. I guess I would say extrovert, but I wasn’t always that way. And I think, you know, being for many years I was in sales and distribution. So you, you had to get over any shyness because you’re out there speaking to clients and advisors and making sure you get meetings. So I and, you know, I have a, good sense of humor. I will say I like to tell jokes. I like to laugh. So, and you can just see how I can’t stop talking. So I guess I’d have to say extrovert.

Would you rather travel to the past or to the future?

Oh. Future. Definitely.

Do you like dark chocolate, milk chocolate or no chocolate at all?

Dark chocolate. They’re supposed to be good for you are healthy.

Yes, exactly. Are you spontaneous or a planner?

I’m more I’m more on the spontaneous side. Not that I, you know, depends on what it is. But, you know, I don’t like to plan too far in advance because, you know, maybe I’ll change my mind and something more fun will come up.

Would you rather read a book or listen to an audiobook?

Audiobook? I’m addicted.

What’s the first concert you went to?

Oh my gosh, this is also going to age me. I think it was Bon Jovi. Oh, that’s a good one.

Not that bad. Jovi. Nice. Let’s go. Let’s stay in the past. What was your favorite board game as a child?

Board game? Yeah. We always played monopoly. When I was really young, pre monopoly, I think I had this Hungry Hippo game. Love that game. Do you remember? Oh, yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

Yes.

That was one of my favorites.

It can be cutthroat at times.

I just played that last week with my niece and nephew. In fact, it’s still around.

I still have. Yes.

Oh, yes.

I love that. Oh my God, I’m going to have to come over and play.

I may have borderline broke it. That’s how aggressive I got

I could completely see that.

Oh my God. Julie got really into Hungry Hippo.

Hardcore

So anyway. And you know, the quality of the games these days isn’t really up there. So I was really going at it and they were like, you just broke Hungry Hippo. Oops. So anyway, yeah. So that was my story of the week.

So wow, I’m glad I, I’m glad I mentioned that. Yes.

Yeah. Well, my my last question is, what is your favorite city in the US?

Oh my gosh. Because I’ve been to so many traveling for years. You know, this is going to really sound. Cliche, but that’s why I moved to Charleston, South Carolina. I mean, it keeps getting voted top city in the country, in the world, and it really is amazing. I feel so fortunate to live here. But you do as John might know. You know, you have to like the heat and the humidity. So, I don’t mind it. I’d rather I’d rather be hot and humid than, cold and snow. So. I feel lucky.

Well, Debra, we can’t thank you enough for being here with us today and sharing all of your guidance for how advisors can connect more deeply with their female prospects and clients and really form those emotional bonds and relationships. And for our listeners looking for more information on Debra, and really how you can dig a little bit deeper? Feel free to visit her website at Debra ostrom.com. Also, Debra recently wrote an excellent article on Advisor Hub under resources. And Debra, maybe you could talk a little bit about that article and the amazing reception it had and what that spurred you to do in terms of some classes that I think you mentioned you’re going to be kicking off in June?

Yes. So just a few back in March. I wrote this article for Advisor Hub magazine, and it’s all about everything, really, that we talked about today. And I, did a little video post for it on LinkedIn when it came out and got such a fantastic response from everyone in the industry and a lot of male financial advisors. So what I am now doing are holding virtual classes to go into this topic as a deeper dive, and with four advisors directly for a small fee, I think. And, you know, with this whole training program includes, as we were talking about, what are the questions to ask? What should exactly I be saying to validate concerns, show respect, build that connection, bring in emotions the right way to drive them to take action. And all of the differences of how men and women do communicate view the world very differently, and which impacts what kind of success story should I be building? So there’s lots of handouts, and I’m also working on getting CE for that as well. The, first class should be launched in June, and I have a separate tab on my website. Up at the top you can see advisor services, so that financial advisors know that’s the page with all the things that I want to help them do and accomplish. And a lot of the other things are about my, educational events for women. So thank you so much, Julie and John, for having me today.

Perfect. Well thank you. Well, we can’t thank you enough. And again, if you’re looking to work directly with Debra on creating any emails or scripts or want more success stories or just ideas for engaging women or events, feel free to email her at Debra at Debra ostrom.com. Thank you again for your time today and for joining us here on the Human Centric Investing podcast.

Thank you.

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The views and opinions expressed herein are those of the guest who is not affiliated with Hartford Funds.