Back in July I was lucky enough to host a conversation at the British Library between Poppy Okotcha and Adam Frost.

Hear a trailer for the episode which will be out next Tuesday.

Poppy's new book is called A Wilder Way and Adam's is called For the Love of Plants and over the course of an hour and a half they discussed how they came to be gardeners, safe spaces, foraging, special plants, special people and compost.

I learned so much both from reading their books and sharing this conversation and thanks to the British Library, I am excited to be able to share it with you next week as a podcast episode.

Our Plant Stories is presented and produced by Sally Flatman

The music is Fade to Black by Howard Levy

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Welcome to our Plant Stories. I have a special treat for you this August. Perfect if you are going on a long walk or drive or just fancy spending an hour and a half relaxing in the company of two lovely gardeners, Poppy Okotcha and Adam Frost.

Recorded at the British Library in July, our conversation talked about the sweet spot between allowing our garden to go wild whilst still being a gardener. I love that Poppy describes herself as a 'garden assistant'.

I think a lot of us these days can carry a little bit of like a shamey guilt feeling of, oh, we're the bad humans and we're trashing the planet and, you know, our gardens would maybe be better off without us because then they can go wild and be great for great habitat.

And I think I've gone on a bit of a journey of realizing that actually there's the possibility of humans having a really profoundly positive impact on landscapes. Like, for example, hedgerows, you know, they can be kept alive for very, very long time. Incredible for biodiversity, beautiful things. And that is human work. So I think that's like a really great example.

And gardens are the same, you know, if we are tending them in a sensitive way and listening and observing, there's the possibility of finding that balance between wildness and over-tamed, I suppose. And I think the beauty in gardens, it kind of comes back to that.

What you're saying before of like freedom and safety and is that there are places where we get to feel the freedom of wildness, but the safety of the human touch. And I think that that's something that's really special and like powerful medicine actually.

We're living in a time where we're experiencing loneliness, extreme levels of loneliness, so many ultra processed foods, so many issues around access to green spaces.

And I think that our gardens can provide a real kind of healing environment if we tend them in this way that cultivates that really special balance.

And we talk about foraging as a way to be connected to the wider landscape. But perhaps don't follow Adam's childhood example.

Yeah, I mean, I was a proper little naughty lad. I was really bad. I used to poach as well. I was terrible, really. I had ferrets as a kid, so I had ferrets, I went to school in Harlow, I had ferrets and I used to go poaching on the railway lines. Seriously? Yeah, I did. But I used to stay with an uncle, that's a bit poorly at the moment, bless him.

And they were publicans and they lived near a farm So I would work on this farm through the summer holidays and I think he connected me a lot with that sort of stuff because he was a chef, so he connected. But also my nan would always have us out, you know, Right from blackberries to this to that.

It was all, I suppose, with my uncle and that, you know, tidy nan. I was told quite early on that, you know, there's stuff out there for you to go and find.

And I suppose that's why it's always been part of what I've done, really.

Just grew up with it. It was just part of life.

Yeah, I suppose I did, really. Yeah. But even, like, say, even the Ferret thing,

We didn't really have any money or this, that and the other, you know, and it was another way of me, even as a nipper, you know, going and playing my part, really. Which sounds mad, doesn't it, really, now.

Possibly the bit about the railway lines. Definitely, yes.

I used to sell the rabbits to a Greek hairdresser in Potter's Bar. There you go. Used to pay good money because he couldn't get rabbits.

He made a good stew out of them as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

See? Yeah, they use a lot of them.

So, yeah, we had a really lovely evening talking about how they came to garden, safe spaces, special plants and their new books. Poppy's is called A Wild Away and Adam's is for the Love of plants.

And thanks to the British Library for letting me share this with you as a podcast episode of our Plant Stories. Listen out next Tuesday and you can find out more about the podcast and the weekly blog at ourplantstories.com.

Can I ask you a question? Is your book an audiobook?

Yeah.

Brilliant. That's good. And you've read it?

I've read it, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. That's brilliant.

Yeah, I read and I read the audiobook. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's brilliant. That's how I'm going to enjoy the book.

Yeah, nice.

Download it. I'm going to listen to it on my little car journeys. I love that because that's, to be fair, I've really loved sitting and listening to you.

Yeah, likewise. It's funny because I've seen you on telly, obviously, on Gardeners World, but it's just been such a pleasure, you've shared, really, in such generous way.

Yeah, it's been brilliant. Yeah. So you will be my company for the next few weeks.