Here's the transcript of today's episode:

Tanner Weyland:

to How to be a Better DM, the official podcast of Monsters.Rent. This is Tanner Weyland, and I'm here with Justin Lewis. Say hi!

Justin:

Bye.

Tanner Weyland:

Hi. Perfect. We're glad to be here with you guys. And today we're going to have a little, you know, just a little question episode, just a little episode where we're answering one question. How do you convince a non-playing person to play D&D? Justin, let's get your thoughts.

Justin:

Alright, for me, step one, ask what movies they like to watch, right? Because most people like Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Marvel, Harry Potter, you know, or any number of fantasy movie. And once you know, oh, you like Harry Potter, well, how is Harry Potter any different than Dungeons and Dragons, right? That would be my first tip. Ask what movies they like.

Tanner Weyland:

Yeah, one thing that I would throw in there is convince the people around them. Like, for example, my wife, she's never played D&D, never wants to. She's firmly in the camp that's like, oh, that's nerdy stuff, you know, and yet she has friends, friends that she thinks are cool. who liked D&D and they heard that, you know, I'm into D&D. They're like, oh my goodness, you should have read a D&D campaign or a session for us, right? And I was like, oh yeah, that sounds great. And then, you know, the thought was planted in my mind. I was like, I can get Kirstie to join. These are her work friends. Of course she would play. Why would she not? She tried to play a little bit of hard to get. It's like, oh, I don't know. I just want to watch you guys play, but. I was like, I think I can get her specifically because she has friends, people that she respects as normal people, not as nerds like me. And that's a good way to convince them. And I think pairing with that, even if she doesn't play, if she sits and sees how an actual game is played, right? Because I got into D&D, frankly, because I started listening to podcasts, you know, live play podcasts. And that was, I was like, oh, this is really fun. I can do this. This isn't too far of a leap. She's never going to do that. What she could do is get a in-person live play podcast, quote unquote, you know, where I'm playing with her friends. If I'm unable to convince her, of course. And that would totally open up the way for like, Hey, if they like it enough and they want to do it again, she'd probably be willing to do the next time. Right.

Justin:

Absolutely. In fact, my wife's aunt still sort of thinks D&D is related to devils and demons, right?

Tanner Weyland:

Oh, yeah, the satanic panic kind of thing.

Justin:

Yeah, exactly.

Tanner Weyland:

Yeah.

Justin:

And it's not so much that she like actively thinks that. She just had a bad experience essentially, but her daughter, right, is living with my wife's parents and because of that her daughter, her daughter my wife's cousin, is not allowed to play D&D, right? But she's come over while we're having our sessions and watched us play and we ask her and we say like, hey, do you think there's anything wrong with this? And she's like, no, it kind of sounds a little boring. Which I mean, you know, that's her opinion, but exactly what Tanner said, expose them a little bit to D&D, right? Have them watch the D&D movie. And everyone knows the D&D movie was funny because you have, you know, lots of kind of new up and coming actors as well as some pretty old and storied actors, you know, who Hugh Grant has been in countless movies, but you have them

Tanner Weyland:

Mm-hmm.

Justin:

watch the D&D movie, they're going to laugh, they're going to see things that are pretty cool, and they're going to ask questions like, wait a second, is Thimbershod that giant fat dragon? Is he like a real character? And the answer is yes. He actually features in The Lost Minds of Vandelver, which is in fact basically like the first D&D anything that most people come in contact with, Would You Like to Play, right? That's an easy segue.

Tanner Weyland:

Mm-hmm. Exactly. And, you know, above all, just... I think if you bring a good positivity to D&D when you talk about it, you know, talk about how fun it was. Talk about, you know, things that you think that they would really find funny or interesting. You know, if you're a DM, which I mean, you're listening to this podcast, so hopefully you're trying to be, then just be like, hey, I was really stumped with this thing, but then I came up with this cool solution. And they really enjoyed it. You know, just be super positive, even if they think you're so nerdy and that it's not to them, they're not going to be intimidated by it, right? And that kind of opens up a pathway for them to be open in other ways, right?

Justin:

Yeah, and along those lines, don't push too hard because our natural inclination as human beings is when someone tells us, you know, you need to do this. Our natural inclination is to say, no, I don't, and I'm not going to because you told me to, right? So in trying to get them to play, make simple invitations, say, it means a lot to me, and I enjoy doing it with my friends. In fact, it keeps my relationships with certain friends. strong, you know, sometimes you don't have the ability to see them, but everyone can schedule something and make it happen. But anyways, don't push too hard.

Tanner Weyland:

Yeah, and I think something that I would just throw in as kind of a gateway drug to tabletop you know role-playing games is you know there are easy tabletop role-playing games and then there are also board games that include a little bit of role-playing right? I would say that that certain games like based off of mafia, like the, what is it? One Night Werewolf

Justin:

Yep.

Tanner Weyland:

game. Like to some extent that's a lot of like playing a role. And then there's other games where you're like working with someone to do like, it's kind of co-op, right? Like there's Pandemic, there's... Oh man, there's this firefighter board game. I'm blanking out the name. But anyway, there are these games where it's like, hey, you're embodying a role, you're role playing, and you know, you're working together with some people. Those are great gateways to doing something more serious. And then if you're trying to do a gateway role playing game, there's a lot of options, right? Like there's some games that... Like there's one game called Dread. It's kind of horror based, so I don't know if you, you know, do it with everyone who you're trying to get into D&D. But the whole idea is that you're playing Jenga. It's a role playing game based around Jenga.

Justin:

I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.

Tanner Weyland:

And each time, like you have, you can find pre-written scenarios, but every time that a player wants to do something, they pull a block, put it on top. And then they do the thing that they said their character would do, right? But the moment that tower falls down, oh my goodness, that person's dead. And the DM, you know, who can be you in this case, kind of takes over that character and they die or transform or who knows what, right? Something horror related. That's a very simple game that doesn't require a lot of rules. And it can be a nice segue, you know.

Justin:

Yeah, another game is Betrayal at Hill House. That

Tanner Weyland:

Oh, exactly.

Justin:

one, it's basically an RPG in board game format. Kind of, you know, going the opposite way rather than using games. You know, if you know this person to be one who is very much into personal development, challenge them and say, have you ever wanted to try and see how quick you are at thinking? you know, using your wits, being creative. How creative are you at problem solving? How good are you at improvising? And how good are your performance and presentation skills? Well, Dungeon and Dragons is the best kind of mix of all of those because it's fun and it does challenge you to kind of think on your feet and improvise, take things as they come and try and craft new solutions that are unique and sometimes absurd.

Tanner Weyland:

Yeah, and kind of as a last point from me, I think that what you said about not pushing is important. Now, if you did wanna do kind of a last hurrah, if you will, I think that you could try and ask them. to do a favor for you, you know, to be like, hey, I wrote this thing, I really think it'd be fun and I have a couple of friends, you know, or mutual friends who want to play it, but we really could use another player. Would you be willing to sit in just one time, right? Or you could even be more direct and be like hey, I've always loved the idea of playing with you But I never thought that you'd be into it Even though I'm sure you'd be great. Would you try it once for me? You know, and if they're like hard no, don't push it too much But I think a lot of a lot of people if you're that direct and that honest about like hey I would really like to try it because if you did like it, it'd be really fun then that would be, you know, I think some people would be willing to try that. I think that'd be the right approach for certain, you know, individuals. And if you're able to do that, then you try it. And if they don't like it, they don't like it. You know, you tried your best, you can move on. You can do it knowing that you've put your best foot forward and that they've actually tried it and you can be grateful and thank them for that. And it can be a memory, you know, to look back on.

Justin:

Absolutely. The last thing I'd say is, even though you shouldn't push too hard, you shouldn't give up. I have a friend who I've been inviting to play D&D with me for the last three years plus, and I feel like I can feel him slowly slipping, right? Eventually I'll get him to say yes. But sometimes people just aren't in the right space. You might ask them one day and they'll say yes. So don't give up.

Tanner Weyland:

Exactly. And with that, you know, we invite you to go out there. Give it another try with your friend, with your family member, your significant other, to, you know, invite them into the rich, rich world of D&D. And, you know, even if it doesn't work now, keep trying. Try in different ways because we know that it's going to be a great experience for you. And until next time, let's roll initiative.

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to How to be a Better DM, the official podcast of Monsters.Rent. This

is Tanner Weyland, and I'm here with Justin Lewis. Say hi!

Bye.

Hi. Perfect. We're glad to be here with you guys. And today we're going

to have a little, you know, just a little question episode, just a little

episode where we're answering one question. How do you convince a non-playing

person to play D&D? Justin, let's get your thoughts.

Alright, for me, step one, ask what movies they like to watch, right? Because most

people like Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Marvel, Harry Potter, you know, or any

number of fantasy movie. And once you know, oh, you like Harry Potter, well,

how is Harry Potter any different than Dungeons and Dragons, right? That would

be my first tip. Ask what movies they like.

Yeah, one thing that I would throw in there is convince the people around

them. Like, for example, my wife, she's never played D&D, never wants to.

She's firmly in the camp that's like, oh, that's nerdy stuff, you know, and

yet she has friends, friends that she thinks are cool. who liked D&D and

they heard that, you know, I'm into D&D. They're like, oh my goodness,

you should have read a D&D campaign or a session for us, right? And I

was like, oh yeah, that sounds great. And then, you know, the thought was

planted in my mind. I was like, I can get Kirstie to join. These are

her work friends. Of course she would play. Why would she not? She tried

to play a little bit of hard to get. It's like, oh, I don't know. I just

want to watch you guys play, but. I was like, I think I can get her specifically

because she has friends, people that she respects as normal people, not as

nerds like me. And that's a good way to convince them. And I think pairing

with that, even if she doesn't play, if she sits and sees how an actual game

is played, right? Because I got into D&D, frankly, because I started

listening to podcasts, you know, live play podcasts. And that was, I was

like, oh, this is really fun. I can do this. This isn't too far of a leap.

She's never going to do that. What she could do is get a in-person live play

podcast, quote unquote, you know, where I'm playing with her friends. If

I'm unable to convince her, of course. And that would totally open up the

way for like, Hey, if they like it enough and they want to do it again,

she'd probably be willing to do the next time. Right.

Absolutely. In fact, my wife's aunt still sort of thinks D&D is related to devils

and demons, right?

Oh, yeah, the satanic panic kind of thing.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

And it's not so much that she like actively thinks that. She just had a bad experience

essentially, but her daughter, right, is living with my wife's parents and because

of that her daughter, her daughter my wife's cousin, is not allowed to play D&D,

right? But she's come over while we're having our sessions and watched us play and

we ask her and we say like, hey, do you think there's anything wrong with this?

And she's like, no, it kind of sounds a little boring. Which I mean, you know, that's

her opinion, but exactly what Tanner said, expose them a little bit to D&D, right?

Have them watch the D&D movie. And everyone knows the D&D movie was funny because

you have, you know, lots of kind of new up and coming actors as well as some pretty

old and storied actors, you know, who Hugh Grant has been in countless movies,

but you have them

Mm-hmm.

watch the D&D movie, they're going to laugh, they're going to see things that

are pretty cool, and they're going to ask questions like, wait a second, is Thimbershod

that giant fat dragon? Is he like a real character? And the answer is yes. He

actually features in The Lost Minds of Vandelver, which is in fact basically like

the first D&D anything that most people come in contact with, Would You Like to Play,

right? That's an easy segue.

Mm-hmm. Exactly. And, you know, above all, just... I think if you bring

a good positivity to D&D when you talk about it, you know, talk about how

fun it was. Talk about, you know, things that you think that they would

really find funny or interesting. You know, if you're a DM, which I mean, you're

listening to this podcast, so hopefully you're trying to be, then just

be like, hey, I was really stumped with this thing, but then I came up

with this cool solution. And they really enjoyed it. You know, just be super

positive, even if they think you're so nerdy and that it's not to them,

they're not going to be intimidated by it, right? And that kind of opens up a pathway

for them to be open in other ways, right?

Yeah, and along those lines, don't push too hard because our natural inclination

as human beings is when someone tells us, you know, you need to do this. Our natural

inclination is to say, no, I don't, and I'm not going to because you told me to,

right? So in trying to get them to play, make simple invitations, say, it means

a lot to me, and I enjoy doing it with my friends. In fact, it keeps my relationships

with certain friends. strong, you know, sometimes you don't have the ability

to see them, but everyone can schedule something and make it happen. But anyways,

don't push too hard.

Yeah, and I think something that I would just throw in as kind of a gateway

drug to tabletop you know role-playing games is you know there are easy

tabletop role-playing games and then there are also board games that include

a little bit of role-playing right? I would say that that certain games

like based off of mafia, like the, what is it? One Night Werewolf

Yep.

game. Like to some extent that's a lot of like playing a role. And then

there's other games where you're like working with someone to do like,

it's kind of co-op, right? Like there's Pandemic, there's... Oh man, there's

this firefighter board game. I'm blanking out the name. But anyway, there

are these games where it's like, hey, you're embodying a role, you're

role playing, and you know, you're working together with some people. Those

are great gateways to doing something more serious. And then if you're

trying to do a gateway role playing game, there's a lot of options, right?

Like there's some games that... Like there's one game called Dread. It's kind

of horror based, so I don't know if you, you know, do it with everyone

who you're trying to get into D&D. But the whole idea is that you're playing

Jenga. It's a role playing game based around Jenga.

I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.

And each time, like you have, you can find pre-written scenarios, but every

time that a player wants to do something, they pull a block, put it on

top. And then they do the thing that they said their character would

do, right? But the moment that tower falls down, oh my goodness, that

person's dead. And the DM, you know, who can be you in this case, kind

of takes over that character and they die or transform or who knows what,

right? Something horror related. That's a very simple game that doesn't require

a lot of rules. And it can be a nice segue, you know.

Yeah, another game is Betrayal at Hill House. That

Oh, exactly.

one, it's basically an RPG in board game format. Kind of, you know, going the opposite

way rather than using games. You know, if you know this person to be one who is very

much into personal development, challenge them and say, have you ever wanted to try and

see how quick you are at thinking? you know, using your wits, being creative.

How creative are you at problem solving? How good are you at improvising? And how good

are your performance and presentation skills? Well, Dungeon and Dragons is the best

kind of mix of all of those because it's fun and it does challenge you to kind

of think on your feet and improvise, take things as they come and try and craft

new solutions that are unique and sometimes absurd.

Yeah, and kind of as a last point from me, I think that what you said about

not pushing is important. Now, if you did wanna do kind of a last hurrah,

if you will, I think that you could try and ask them. to do a favor for

you, you know, to be like, hey, I wrote this thing, I really think it'd

be fun and I have a couple of friends, you know, or mutual friends who

want to play it, but we really could use another player. Would you be willing

to sit in just one time, right? Or you could even be more direct and be like

hey, I've always loved the idea of playing with you But I never thought

that you'd be into it Even though I'm sure you'd be great. Would you try

it once for me? You know, and if they're like hard no, don't push it

too much But I think a lot of a lot of people if you're that direct and

that honest about like hey I would really like to try it because if you

did like it, it'd be really fun then that would be, you know, I think some

people would be willing to try that. I think that'd be the right approach

for certain, you know, individuals. And if you're able to do that, then you try

it. And if they don't like it, they don't like it. You know, you tried

your best, you can move on. You can do it knowing that you've put your

best foot forward and that they've actually tried it and you can be grateful

and thank them for that. And it can be a memory, you know, to look back

on.

Absolutely. The last thing I'd say is, even though you shouldn't push too hard,

you shouldn't give up. I have a friend who I've been inviting to play D&D with me

for the last three years plus, and I feel like I can feel him slowly slipping,

right? Eventually I'll get him to say yes. But sometimes people just aren't in

the right space. You might ask them one day and they'll say yes. So don't give

up.

Exactly. And with that, you know, we invite you to go out there. Give it

another try with your friend, with your family member, your significant other,

to, you know, invite them into the rich, rich world of D&D. And, you

know, even if it doesn't work now, keep trying. Try in different ways because

we know that it's going to be a great experience for you. And until next