Kasia Niewiadoma breaks down the exceptional 2024 Tour de France Femmes sharing the inside track of that incredible victory. Kasia also had a life changing year away from the road, marrying her long term partner Taylor Phinney. Now she joins the podcast to discusses her goals in cycling and her plans for the future.

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Hello everyone, and welcome back

to another stage of the odd tandem.

2

We have a very special guest

3

She won Fleche Wallone.

4

She got married.

5

She won the tour de France Femmes Jensie.

6

How awesome was it having Kasia

Niewiadoma-Phinney on the pod today?

7

It was absolutely fantastic.

8

I mean, talking about her marriage,

you know,

9

where do you want to go

and, have dinner their party

10

We talked about the Tour de France,

how close it was four seconds.

11

She won the tour de France.

She explained to us the entire day.

12

She went through all the pain

she went through.

13

So it was absolutely fantastic

talking to her.

14

And I've known Taylor Phinney

for a long time.

15

He is obviously a super fan and super

supporter of Kasia He is also responsible

16

for doing our Little Diddly

during the intro and the outro music.

17

So it's just funny how

that kind of everything comes together.

18

So relax, sit back and enjoy

the conversation today with Kasia.

19

All right everyone, very, very special

guests we have today on the odd tandem.

20

The world knows her as Kasia

21

Niewiadoma, but now it's Kasia Niewadoma.

22

Phinney.

23

Welcome to the show.

24

Thank you so much for having me.

25

Oh, well,

I tell you, I could not be happier.

26

And we're talking about,

27

you know, we had you on an earlier

podcast under a different name,

28

and, we asked Taylor

when he was going to put a ring on it,

29

and he did that.

30

It seemed like you guys came back

to America for a little bit of a,

31

you know, training camp or a vacation.

32

And you went back to Europe,

a married woman.

33

Tell us about the whole process.

34

So much happened this year.

35

So we got engaged last year,

just after tour de France.

36

And then we kind of started

playing the wedding.

37

But I feel like none of us really knew

what we wanted at the end.

38

And like, the whole plan especially

that weddings in Poland are huge.

39

It's like a two day event.

40

And it's a big thing.

41

So in some ways I was like, damn,

I don't know if I'm ready for such

42

a massive planning, and especially that

this year has been already quite big.

43

So all we knew

is that we just wanted to be married

44

and to kind of like

move on in the relationship.

45

So we decided to elope.

46

We flew to Colorado,

47

got married in Colorado mountains,

and yeah,

48

it was super easy and very unique

and special for both of us.

49

So, yeah, now we kind of need

to start playing the ceremony

50

or the official part, but,

we're just happy with how everything went.

51

It was very true to who we are. So.

52

So. Yeah.

53

And now I'm mature, a mature lady.

54

And am you planning

55

a second part of that, wedding in Poland

56

with your family site,

or how how is that going to be,

57

played out?

58

Yeah.

59

To be honest, I'm very indecisive person

60

because one day I wake up and I'm like,

okay, we're getting married in Poland,

61

and I'm like, talk with Polish people,

planning everything,

62

organizing everything.

63

And all of the sudden I'm like,

I don't know, maybe it should be Spain

64

or maybe Andorra or like,

I just change locations

65

all the time and, yeah, I don't know.

66

I feel like we also were talking that

because as an athletes,

67

we are faced with so many different

big events

68

that having a big wedding

is not something that we resonate with.

69

So perhaps it's gonna I don't know,

but we also change our mind self.

70

And so to be honest, none of us really

know what are we going to end up with.

71

We kind of have a date

for the official wedding, but,

72

nothing major is booked or planned.

73

Yeah, we we got eloped.

74

Or my wife

75

And, we went to Hawaii.

76

Kind of on a vacation,

and we just said, you know what?

77

I don't have the energy

to do all this planning stuff

78

and look at the invite lists.

79

So we looked and we, the funny thing

was, you have to have witnesses, right?

80

So the witness was the photographer

81

slash video videographer,

82

and then the,

83

the ukulele player,

because we were in Hawaii.

84

So on our, on our marriage certificate,

there's the,

85

the giant gentleman that was the ukulele

player, that was our, was,

86

so but it made things a little bit easier

because, like you said,

87

you have a busy schedule.

88

I mean, you're a professional athlete.

89

You have to train. You have to recover.

90

It's very, very difficult to,

91

take the time,

especially during the season, to do it.

92

So. Yeah.

93

Congratulations. Thank you.

94

I couldn't be happier.

95

I mean, it's been a, Yeah,

a huge year for you.

96

But before we get into all the nuts

and bolts of,

97

the podcast, we have a couple quick fire

questions for you.

98

You ready for these?

99

Yeah.

100

Ready.

101

Okay, so, favorite one day race

because you've won them both Fleche

102

Wallone or Amstel Gold.

103

I think it's Strade Bianche,

104

but if I have to choose between

both of them, I would say I'm still

105

okay.

106

That's perfect for this next question,

then, Because you're reigning world

107

gravel champion and reigning tour de

France Femmes champion.

108

What's your favorite surface?

109

Gravel or road?

110

Die hard road?

111

To be honest, I just love road riding.

112

Gravel is something

that, gives like some sort of,

113

I don't know, variety

to my training schedule, but anytime

114

I'm on the road, I'm like,

oh yeah, finally I'm back.

115

Okay, okay, so we know that your new

husband is a man of many, many talents.

116

Mate, you know,

I've known him a very, very long time.

117

He is an amazing individual.

118

So what is the

119

your favorite meal

that Taylor cooks for you?

120

He actually just made pasta party for me,

so, I mean, we call it pasta party.

121

Basically, it consists of a huge bowl

filled with pasta and different,

122

different flavors in there.

123

But I had a big ride today.

124

So he was on dinner duty.

125

Okay, okay.

126

He is he is quite the, he's the man.

127

He's the supporter. Yeah. Yeah.

128

So last one, what is your preferred way

129

of winning by seconds or by minutes

by four seconds.

130

Yeah.

131

I think we were just saying after

132

the race that I need to really embrace

those four seconds

133

and kind of a joke around the phone,

or we actually also started ?

134

called four seconds.

135

Hey, once we start with the four seconds

now, that brings us straight back, to,

136

Yeah, another big part of your year

137

apart from the wedding

was these four seconds.

138

The morning of the

139

last stage,

did you think you had enough time

140

in your hands

to play for the yellow jersey to keep it?

141

Or you were like, well, I don't know.

142

How is this gonna play out?

143

You're going to attack early or not?

144

At the morning of this stage,

145

how did you feel about your advantage?

146

Then,

147

to be honest,

I think that throughout the whole tour

148

I wasn't really paying much attention

to the time difference

149

between me and other riders,

because just from the experience, I know,

150

that if I study the results

after each stage,

151

I somehow get too hard on myself or

152

I get in some ways insecure.

153

So what I usually do

is, is like focus on each stage

154

personally, like what I could do best

and like together with my team.

155

So, of course, reconning the,

final stage,

156

I knew that it was going to be super hard

and on and on.

157

And I'll do it

as you can lose, like four minutes easily.

158

You know, it's such a long,

long climbs that once

159

your legs say no, it's like Adele,

you know, bye bye.

160

But I just knew in some ways,

161

having those two hard climbs

make things easier,

162

because it's now that we've finished

the tour de France in the list

163

where positioning is super important

and like you're on those small roads

164

and there are so many different factors

that can affect your result.

165

I knew that all I have to do

is just do my best, and it was one option.

166

There were no other options.

167

I mean, of course

like backing up or slowing down

168

could have been an option,

but it would never cross my mind.

169

So even on Glandon

170

when Demi went and I did feel I just like

171

did feel great at that point, I felt like,

okay, it's still a long way to go.

172

And I kind of carried on my pace and yeah,

173

but the morning before,

I think also with the team,

174

because I've been with my team

for so many years that I feel

175

very comfortable and I can be myself

and they know how to support me

176

and what to tell me to like,

keep me sane and not crazy.

177

So that was helping because everyone just

let me be who I wanted to be.

178

And no one was like,

you got this or like whatever.

179

It was just very chilled.

And there were like,

180

just before we started,

they just told me, we believe in you.

181

And I think I was kind of carrying

that thought

182

in my head for a long time.

183

Well,

I know we're going to get back to that,

184

but I want to kind of back up

a little bit, you know,

185

the preparation for the Olympics.

186

And then immediately after the the tour de

France Femmes, how did you prepare?

187

Because I mean, you're preparing a one day

very, very important race.

188

And then a few days later,

starting the biggest stage race on the

189

Women's World Tour calendar.

190

What was

191

your mindset going into the Olympics?

192

Because I read some things that you were

a little bit disappointed and,

193

you know, you had a fire in your belly

from stage one of the tour de France.

194

That was very, very apparent to us

super fans watching you.

195

But what was your preparation leading up

to the Olympics with the tour de France,

196

the tour de France, from

just a few days after?

197

Yeah.

198

So to be honest, I was mainly focusing

on tour de France preparation,

199

just because I know that for me

it's very easy

200

to pick up on those like 30s

to three minutes afterwards.

201

I think that that's something

that I have naturally, like I need 1

202

or 2 sessions in order to feel strong

in that area and like feel sharp.

203

But long climbs is still my weaker part,

204

and it's something that requires

extra work.

205

So with my coach,

we were focusing for four weeks.

206

I mean, actually at the classic directly

just on the tour de France.

207

The last two stages, especially,

208

so then like two weeks before Olympics,

209

we kind of added some sharpness.

210

And after two sessions, as I said before,

I was like, okay, I'm ready.

211

Like, I got this.

212

I don't need to work too much on it.

213

And also, you know,

214

when you race the whole spring,

you naturally still have it in your body.

215

And luckily I wasn't injured or I didn't

have any health problems beforehand.

216

So I feel like I was able to maintain

all the work

217

that they build up

from January on in my body.

218

So Olympics definitely was a big goal

and I felt strong coming from altitude.

219

But then like being stuck behind the crash

220

and not making the move to bridge

across earlier, but kind of like waiting.

221

I think I just made the mistake

of like leaving

222

nothing but like wanting others

to do their work beforehand.

223

So then I could use it and bridge across.

224

But then, like there were

not that many others who wanted to

225

bring the breakaway closer or the group

that was there.

226

So I just ended up racing to

227

to get back to the front

instead of like racing for the medal.

228

So that was very, disappointing

in the way that I felt that I couldn't

229

get rewarded for all the hard work and

all the sacrifice I was doing beforehand.

230

And I know that I spent

like months on altitude

231

and then like, you have this big goal

and it doesn't go as you planned.

232

So it's like, then I was like,

what am I doing?

233

Like, you know, I'm spending so much time

preparing for something

234

and I cannot even

get like slight reward. So

235

on the other hand, it was nice to like

get that tour started

236

because that was a nice distraction

from Olympic heartbreak.

237

Let's say.

238

In the Olympics, you realized

239

your shape was actually better

than your result, right?

240

Yeah.

241

What was your mindset

going into the tour de France?

242

Do you said, hey team, I am really good.

243

I'm trying to win.

244

Or you go, let's aim for a podium.

245

What was your mindset

going into to Women's Tour de France?

246

I think from the moment I started

preparing for tour de France,

247

I was saying loudly that I come

248

to win this race,

that I do all the work to win the race,

249

just because in the past

I felt like I was kind of shying away

250

from expressing what I really want

because like that I would want to avoid,

251

like this failure feeling afterwards

252

or, I don't know, like somehow

protecting myself.

253

And then, this year I realized that

the more I express what I want,

254

the more faith there is also inside me,

and I can grab it so,

255

together with my team,

we just knew that we are

256

here to win the bike race and to win

the biggest bike race in the world,

257

and that felt or that statement

within stress.

258

Anyone out or winning

with any sort of tension or nervousness.

259

Within us, everyone was just like like,

let's fucking do it.

260

Like positive energy, but also very

empowering and everyone wants it together.

261

So, I think that just with my team over

the last couple of years,

262

we really created the

atmosphere or the vibe that

263

is helping, especially

264

riders, to to just be themselves

and to express what they want

265

and get the full back up and support

for that.

266

Well, talk about support.

267

Stage five.

268

You had it, Demi.

269

Didn't you know you're

coming into the final six kilometers?

270

That terrible crash happens.

271

The race is full gas.

272

Yeah.

273

And you have Chloe Dygert on the front.

274

Just absolutely drilling it when you know

what happened behind happened behind.

275

That's bike racing, Yeah, right.

276

Was that planned that Chloe

277

would take you into that final sector?

278

And drill it all the way to the finish

to to make sure

279

that you were in good position?

280

Or was that was that lucky?

281

To avoid that, that crash.

282

So stage five

was the only stage that we never recon

283

like none of us, had seen that either

riders or directors.

284

It was like an unknown fate for us.

285

So, of course, with Veloviewer,

you can see that, okay, there's a descent

286

quite close to the final section,

and with some weird corners.

287

So we got to be in the front.

288

I think that every single team is told

to be in the front in sections like this.

289

So, it was chaotic

just before we hit the descent,

290

and I was so lucky

actually having Soraya [Paladin] bringing

291

Chloe and I to the front,

she did just in the last moment.

292

And then we were sitting on the SD Worx

wheels.

293

So I was like, okay, this is sweet.

294

I see everything

what's happening like, let's do it.

295

And the last one point,

I think seven kms were uphill.

296

So we knew that

297

that would be like a chance

for me to maybe gain some seconds, like,

298

I think that I feel confident saying

that I'm better at the shorter punchy

299

stuff than Demi is, Demi is a better

climber, long term climber,

300

let's say so I thought maybe I can like

I don’t know strip a couple of seconds.

301

So having Chloe there was a plan to like

have there

302

all the way until like whenever

I was supposed to attack.

303

But then of course like we saw the

the group of only like I think

304

ten riders and we also like

they have all of our teammates.

305

So like she started to ride

hard on the flats already.

306

So I was like, okay,

the moment she's tired, I just let go.

307

And the first thought was like, we go for

the sprint and actually finishing second.

308

I was like, super disappointed

because I thought that I almost had it.

309

I didn't know that Blanca [Vas] was there.

310

Then I was like kind of angry.

311

And then they tell me like,

oh, we got in yellow.

312

So that was like a nice roller coaster

that it ended up with, with the reward.

313

Another question about that day.

314

Were you aware

or were you surprised by the tactics of,

315

team SD Works with, you know, like,

it's just Vas going for the win?

316

Lorena Wiebes sprinted for top ten. Yeah.

317

And maybe, not enough

318

riders got called back to help.

319

To help Demi Vollering to limit the loss.

320

Was surprised by that.

321

Or was it just chaos and chaotic

and there was no radio connection there?

322

Yeah, it was definitely super chaotic.

323

I think that also a lot of riders

were very tired

324

because the stage was relentless.

325

We were going up and down

326

and everyone tried to be in the breakaway

and the breakaway never, never went.

327

So, you know, those stages were there

just attacks to go into breakaway.

328

But always somebody brings it.

329

Then it's

it's like a washing machine for 4.5 hours.

330

So I do remember just like being,

you know in this days of like let's

331

okay, five kicks ago or whatever, you just

focus on the final and it's so loud.

332

And to be honest,

I was unaware of anything that happened

333

until like after the finish line

when we actually saw

334

some social media content

and some videos cause...

335

No one knew what was going

on, and I don't know

336

if even if the SD Worx girls knew

what was going on because it's also like,

337

it's not that you always have cars just

behind you and the connection is amazing.

338

So yeah, it was,

339

I think in the finals,

especially when it's like up and down

340

and lots of corners, it's hard

to even like be so connected

341

with what they tell you in the radio,

because you also focus not to crash

342

or not to like do anything that would cost

you your time so

343

I can see them, just like riding blindly

at the end of the day.

344

But then also, I don't know,

like I know that

345

when they crash on the first stage,

the girls waited for me directly

346

and no one told like,

hey, you have to wait for.

347

Yeah. Like they,

you know, at two to wait for me.

348

So I don't know, that comes with like,

what is your relationship

349

with the teammates or maybe there is

something that we don't know about

350

and probably will never,

you know, will never learn.

351

Thanks for telling our viewers

and our listeners a little bit about,

352

the lack of radio contact

sometimes, like everyone just assumes,

353

because we see it on TV

and we know what's going on that,

354

that everybody in the peloton does.

355

But like you said,

356

if the car’s not right behind you

or the batteries or the battery in

357

the thing is a little bit low,

you know, it's flying blind.

358

But yeah, especially I would say it

359

like I know

that almost every single classic I finish,

360

I finish last 20kms without the radio,

just because peloton consists

361

of like 150 girls

and there are just groups everywhere.

362

And it's not that the jury lets

363

the car to, like, blast

through all the girls and go to the front.

364

So I feel like it's normal

that you lose the connection.

365

It's nothing unusual, special, and maybe

indeed people don't know about it.

366

Okay, so I find myself in this situation

quite often.

367

Jens was a yellow.

368

He wore the yellow jersey multiple times,

many of our guests do.

369

So I'm always left out

because I never wore the yellow jersey.

370

Oh no.

371

I want to hear about you

getting up on the podium

372

for the first time ever and putting on

the most coveted jersey in cycling.

373

What was that experience like?

374

To be honest, the first

375

time wasn't as special

as the following days.

376

Just because the circumstances,

just because in some ways

377

I felt like as if I did something today.

378

Me so I took that, I don't know,

as if I stole that jersey, you know,

379

because there is this

this there was direct

380

talk of like all day we crash and like,

nobody waited for her.

381

And you hear it

and you feel it everywhere.

382

So like, I definitely

had a nice moment with my team,

383

but they feel like it

just felt a little odd in some ways.

384

And then like, the following days

were like a full celebration.

385

But I mean,

386

you just told us before you had a crash

early in that race as well.

387

So everybody goes through some bad luck,

right?

388

It is.

389

I mean, Bobby and me we had that Oh, yeah.

390

That is just part of it. Right.

391

Fortunately, your crash wasn't too bad.

392

Right on.

393

Earlier in the race, but,

so there's no no need to feel guilty.

394

I just want to say that because everybody

has his share of bad luck and good luck.

395

Yeah, yeah. Of course.

396

And this is part of racing.

397

And I think if you crash, I mean,

398

everyone reacts to crashes differently

and everyone crashes.

399

In a way

that we cannot experience ourselves.

400

So I don't know,

like what people feel like.

401

I know that my first instinct is to,

like, quickly

402

find my bike and go, you know, like,

you just want to ride.

403

You don't want to, stay.

404

You just,

like, feel like you got to be moving.

405

Sometimes I feel like I jump on the bike

and I don't have a chain on.

406

And then you have to, like, stop again

and, like, fix your bike somehow.

407

So, yeah, like, on the first stage,

actually,

408

there were so many crashes

because we started in Rotterdam.

409

That's where we lost our teammate.

410

Elise [Chabbey].

411

And like, crashing there wasn't ideal

because the following day

412

we had the double stage.

413

So, like, waking up super early

than, like, getting on a bike.

414

Like, I felt quite broken.

415

But then luckily, like, I kind of, like,

416

was able to heal myself quite quick.

417

So, yeah, it all depends on the timing

418

and like how you deal with it

and how you move on.

419

Tell me a little bit more

about that double stage,

420

because the only double stage

that I remember

421

doing as a pro

was Criterium International.

422

But we, we, you know,

that was a very special day

423

because it was the day

that the daylight savings started.

424

So we lost an hour.

425

So we had to get up even earlier.

426

And then Jens would normally crush

everybody in the morning stage.

427

And then the time

trial was in the afternoon

428

and it was a two day,

three day, two day three stage race.

429

And it was Jensie,

430

probably one of the most stressful races

that we do all year because of that.

431

And you got

432

you ladies had a double day

thrown in on stage.

433

What.

434

Two in the second,

second and third stage.

435

So a road stage and then a very short time

trial in the afternoon.

436

But then you had six more road stages

after that.

437

Yeah.

438

Tell our viewers and our listeners

what it's like

439

or what what you experienced

in your team experience during that

440

uber stressful

second day of the tour de France.

441

Yeah, to be honest,

I think that like, huge appreciation

442

should go towards our staff members

because mechanics had to deal.

443

Okay. You have seven riders.

444

We have two bikes each on the road,

445

two bikes each on its proper time trail.

446

So you have four bikes for a rider

that you have to take care of.

447

And you have to maintain

and make sure that everything is working.

448

So. And same thing.

449

They are working, extremely early

just to prepare everything for us.

450

So I will say that for the rider is

451

in some ways manageable

because you just follow the schedule.

452

But I don't think it's very fair

for people

453

who work around

to make our lives easier, because

454

I when I

455

saw them just basically all out,

you know, full guys.

456

I told them from the start

until the evening,

457

and then it was just day two, you know,

then the bigger stages are coming.

458

So, yeah, it wasn't

I don't know what was the idea behind it,

459

but personally

I wasn't a biggest fan of it.

460

And, I remember from the days

with, split days, your body really,

461

or your mind wants to go to sleep

after the first stage.

462

Oh, yeah.

463

But you cannot.

464

You have to keep yourself somehow.

465

You can go into some meditation mode,

but you're not allowed to sleep at all,

466

because then the fatigue five hours

to wake your body up again.

467

Right. And it's tricky.

468

You eat something and then your body goes,

okay, this is my time to rest

469

and to sleep and, and but you go,

no, no, no, you cannot go to sleep, right?

470

Yeah. How was it for you?

471

Yeah, definitely.

472

In some ways, call it.

473

We were lucky, but it was such a busy day

for us moving from place to another.

474

Especially that we were changing hotels

and there's like logistics of packing and

475

but still like coming back to a hotel

to take a shower and like to get a lunch.

476

So we ended up just being also in a rush

477

for the whole day, actually,

for like the whole tour was like

478

there was no time at all for yourself

to kind of like

479

sit down and chill a second because,

480

maybe because we started in Holland,

so transfers were quite long,

481

and then you arrive to the starting venue

and there's always more things

482

to do before the tour.

483

And then,

484

yeah, I felt like we were just in the move

all the time.

485

When you get to the hotel and so quickly

486

go get the massage quickly,

go get the dinner.

487

Little key meaning.

488

And then it's like 9:30.

And what do you do?

489

You just, like, quickly

check your messages and you go to sleep.

490

Did you feel having the yellow jersey

that you had,

491

a lot more responsibility after the race

in terms of press conference and stuff?

492

Because you're no stranger to being on

the podium of the tour de France Femmes.

493

You've done it twice. But yeah.

494

What what was that like?

495

Because we rarely hear how much extra time

and energy that that takes from.

496

Yeah, the yellow jersey wears.

497

To be honest, that experience

498

definitely made me think of Pogacar

or any rider in the grand tour

499

that has to do it for like say it,

500

let's say two weeks because you don't

get the jersey straight away.

501

But it's definitely our plus

because it's podium as a driving control.

502

It's like TV

and then it’s a press conference.

503

And it's not that you go to those

like sometimes

504

you have to wait for

things, so you just end up,

505

arriving

506

hour to hour and a half

after your teammates.

507

But in with the yellow jersey on your,

on your shoulders.

508

Did you experience that the public

recognizes you more, give you more support

509

because from my experience,

the defense are fairly fair.

510

Whoever's in a yellow jersey,

a French, an American or a Polish rider

511

did give you full applause

and respect was a decision.

512

Yeah. Your case?

513

Yeah.

514

It was definitely a very nice experience,

515

not only for myself,

but also for my whole team.

516

It was really cool

to see how that jersey awakens.

517

People like, I don't know, everyone

recognized was recognizing us

518

and wishing us

good luck and being our best friend.

519

I definitely see why tour de France

is so special for a lot of riders.

520

It's because you go through those

experiences that basically never happened.

521

You know, it's just very unique and

522

it's also very beautiful to feel

that support

523

coming from strangers, because it's not

that these people know us,

524

but they genuinely come,

525

to just watch us race

and they want to be friends in some way.

526

So it was really nice

because it's all sort of people,

527

you know, starting from young girls

to like our older guys.

528

Everyone is just there for

529

one purpose, like the beauty of cycling.

530

So that was really cool.

531

So over here in the States,

we had the stream,

532

the coverage, and on stage eight,

you know, you took the jersey and stage

533

five defend it

and six and seven and stage eight

534

the it was a little bit delayed.

535

So we didn't get to watch anything

until basically halfway up the Glandon.

536

So I'm sitting there like excited as all

get out,

537

and halfway up the Glandon.

538

Everything's in order.

539

I have five.

540

My wife and I have five rescue dogs,

and they were ringing

541

the doggie doorbells,

so I had to take them outside.

542

I walked around and I said, hey,

you know, they've got,

543

you know, six

more kms of the Glandon to go.

544

It's all going to go down on the,

on the, on the Alpe d’Huez.

545

So I'm out there walking them around.

546

They're taking their own sweet time.

547

I come back in and all of a sudden

I don't even know what I'm

548

watching anymore because you're,

you're like 40s away from Demi.

549

And I just left to walk

my dogs, like, ten minutes prior.

550

I understand

551

that you went through

a little bit of a bad moment there,

552

which all cyclists do, but

553

on the descent in the yellow jersey,

554

you're in a group of, you know, 5 or 6,

555

normally in that situation,

556

every other woman, every other person

in that group would just point to you

557

and say, it's your job,

but you had some help from Lucinda Brand.

558

I think it was from Lidl-Trek

559

and I she, she, she did more than her fair

share of work. Yes.

560

She had a teammate, what I found

interesting is she's also Dutch.

561

And Demi, who was up

the road was Dutch was it didn't seem like

562

you guys were, were talking,

but that was probably the most valuable

563

teammate or person you could have had

in that group at that time.

564

Yeah.

565

Was that talked about

or was that just that tactic

566

for little track to get their climber

a little bit closer before Alpe

567

d’Huez just happened to help you?

568

Yeah,

I think they had their own on business

569

because Gaia [Realini] is known

as a very good climber and I think, Alpe

570

d’Huez suited her perfectly

because it's steep and she's very small.

571

So usually does the climb

where she makes a difference.

572

If it was like say 4 or 5% climb,

then I guess it would be harder for her.

573

So I think they had

like a full belief in Gaia.

574

But of course that work was perfect for me

575

and we know each other very well

and we love each other also.

576

I think that would actually

I think that this whole tour

577

was like, beautiful rewards

for all the years I was racing.

578

Because

even when I think about last year, turmoil

579

like when I was out there in the valley

on my own,

580

they only had like two teammates

helping her to bring the gap closer.

581

They like, close me to five seconds

at the end and now I happen to have some

582

not not teammates, but riders

that were happy to rotate with me.

583

And I just like thought that, you know, in

some ways it's not like a life karma,

584

but it was really nice

to see certain moments

585

that were just like falling

perfectly into places.

586

So, I think it comes to just like

being also,

587

you know, if you like somebody,

you don't mind working together, I think

588

because, yeah, we had a good laughter

after the finish line.

589

I like that the strikes send me

590

a message with his credit card number

591

saying, like, you can transfer the money

to this account.

592

So that was really fun.

593

Yeah.

594

And with, being a little bit

595

behind me, did you feel the pressure

to take more risk on the downhill

596

or you descend it within your limits,

like always?

597

Or you said, I can gain 10s extra here

598

if I go down faster.

599

I definitely wasn't thinking

about gaining some time on the descent

600

just because, anytime I would create

a gap between losing and Gaia losing,

601

that would be waiting for Gaia

and I knew that I need to sign that

602

for the club section,

so I kind of like, try to stay with them.

603

Yeah.

604

That was I was kind of

I don't know, to be honest.

605

It was so weird.

606

But the whole stage I felt calm.

607

Definitely.

608

On Glandon. It's a long climb.

609

It's like 8kms.

610

I think that it's not,

of course, all about it, but I think what

611

they did wrongly on that climb was that

612

they only had like a little bit of bottle.

613

I didn't think anything.

614

And it's like almost an hour effort.

615

So towards the end I just felt like,

you know, when you go hard

616

but you feel like that

pain lingers around.

617

It's not that you go hard

and you process the pain

618

and it's like kind of

is there and you feel it,

619

but it's like staying in your body

and it builds up.

620

So that's what

I started to feel towards the end.

621

And then Demi attacked and I was like,

sweet of course she attacks now.

622

So on the descent I quickly like took

623

whatever I had in my pockets.

624

And as you descend from from Glandon,

625

halfway through

you have this very short, painful kicker.

626

It's like one.

627

Okay. 10%.

628

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, I remember no.

629

Oh, yeah.

630

Yeah, you're at the top. And then,

one more little.

631

Yeah. Got so. Oh yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So

632

after, like,

633

having some food at the table of Glandon,

I was like, thinking about this kicker.

634

And I was like, oh, man.

635

Like, it's going to be the worst.

636

But then I started it

and I'm like, yo, I'm like, this is good.

637

Like,

I could just find my pace, find my rhythm.

638

And then that was actually the moment

where I was like, okay,

639

like fuel as much as you can and like,

anything is possible.

640

That's when I actually started to think,

to stay more focused and concentrated

641

and like, the game isn't finished

because I felt like I was back.

642

I wasn't just like slow

and sluggish person on the bike,

643

but I had my energy back.

644

But for us on TV, we had so much

more information than than you had.

645

Yeah, things,

things were going back and forth.

646

But it wasn't just Demi,

it was Paulina Rooijakkers

647

who was with her that could also win

the tour de France Femmes.

648

Yeah, she won the sprint.

649

I mean, it's two of the most dangerous

ladies going up the road.

650

You refill your belly, and basically,

it's an individual time trial.

651

Up, up to us, right? Yeah.

652

So did you know the time gaps?

653

And if you did,

what was your pacing strategy for that?

654

Because we were on pins and needles

the whole entire time, you know.

655

And then, you know, I took into account

the time bonus sprints.

656

And, you know, I saw like right away

657

I said she won it, but on TV

they weren't sure.

658

And yeah, what

what was going through your head?

659

Switch back

after switch back on that iconic climb

660

where one day, you know,

you just find yourself in this situation

661

where you have to give everything

for the yellow jersey.

662

All the marbles are on, on in play here.

663

What was that all about?

664

What was take us through that hole?

665

To be honest,

I started the climb because, you know,

666

the first two cars are quite steep.

667

It's like straight and steep.

668

And I started it.

669

I was like, I'm not looking at the power.

670

I just like, follow my feelings.

671

And I, like, quickly

glance down and I'm like, oh shit.

672

Like,

I have to do that for the whole climb.

673

And then I was like, kind of like,

oh no, like, what did I put myself into,

674

you know?

675

And then I was like,

okay, now just do it. Do it.

676

And, at some point

677

I got into this phase

where I knew that I just have no choice.

678

And what can I do now either I stop

and I quit, or I just, like,

679

carry on this immensely

difficult and uncomfortable pace.

680

So they just said, so,

681

there was like so much going on

from the crowd and from my radio.

682

So I was like,

683

could you please stop talking to me

like I needed some sort of silence?

684

So the team gave me a moment

where I could just

685

because, like, you know, when you train,

for the most part,

686

like you hear nothing is the silence

and you find your rhythm and you, like,

687

feel your body.

688

And I felt like I was needing it

so much to just, like,

689

be in silence for a second

because it was so loud and cold again.

690

So much pain going through the body.

691

They stopped talking immediately,

and then I was like, oh shit.

692

Like, I actually need them.

693

Like I need

also some sort of guidance and timing.

694

And then I was able to find my rhythm.

695

And then I started to go further, further.

696

And the guys realized that actually, it's

not that gap is growing.

697

They were getting more and more excited

than like,

698

giving me some sort of,

tips and pieces of advice.

699

But to be honest,

700

it's like it's still hard, like crazy

for me to even talk about this experience

701

because it was such a crazy pain.

702

And I think, like all of us

went through it in some ways

703

because it's like you just know

that you cannot bog down,

704

like you cannot slow down,

you cannot do anything.

705

So the only thing I was like,

kind of hoping to get this

706

like some sort of drafting in the corner

section sometimes before the corner.

707

I would like one riders a vehicle

or guy two to go through

708

so I could get a little sort of recovery

because every corner is like flattens out.

709

But there's actually

710

it is always laughing at me, like what

I was doing, like, you know, flicking

711

elbow on like a 10% gradient,

like it wasn't going to help at all.

712

But yeah, it was insane suffering

713

and so rewarding at the end.

714

But I did like set any sort of tactic.

715

It was just like,

716

let's see, like I have no choice.

717

Just go as hard as I can,

hoping that it was going to

718

be finished as soon as possible.

719

Jensie sorry, a quick follow up question.

720

How long did you ask

or how long were you granted

721

your moment of Zen with silence?

722

Maybe for like for three four case?

723

Okay, so a significant amount.

724

Yeah, okay.

725

But it was perfect. Yeah, it was perfect.

726

And, I guess you already answered

my next question.

727

If you would have lost to tour de

France was four seconds,

728

would you find a place where

you could have gone a little bit faster,

729

or you were all the time

perfectly at the mix?

730

Yeah,

I, I definitely know that, I'll do it.

731

It was all I had.

732

It was maximum because, like,

733

like the last especially

734

three guys were so hard

that where I, the attack

735

I like I had Tay[lor Phinney]

and my friend David running

736

next to me and I being recognized them

like I didn't see anything.

737

And I remember this moment

seeing any going.

738

And in my head directly, I'm like,

no, like I, I'm not doing it.

739

But somehow my body carried me on.

740

So it was very interesting

because normally I feel like buddy doesn't

741

want to do it, but you like mentally

force yourself to do something

742

and this time I just like kind of stood up

743

and grinded my way back to to her wheel.

744

But I know, like I was actually thinking

745

because it's like very, popular now.

746

Like how high cadence,

you can have going uphill.

747

And that's something I struggle with.

748

Like my cadence is never high.

749

So I was like researching past winners

and their cadences or their riding style.

750

And of course, like, I came across Pantani

and the fact that he was like,

751

out of the saddle in the drops,

like going uphill.

752

So I was training

before the tour de France

753

and that was like doing some Air Force.

754

And just when

755

I was like getting super dead, I was like,

let's try that one time you think?

756

And I was like, actually, it's

working for like 1 minute or 2 minutes.

757

So I was just like grinding that,

like trying to get some extra power.

758

So just to confirm something,

759

Taylor, the love of your life,

your lobster new husband

760

is gets into a van, drives

all the way to watch you.

761

He's running beside you, yelling.

762

And you were so much in the zone

that you didn't know he was there.

763

I didn't see him at all.

764

And he was like, right there.

765

I could only see in the TV.

766

And he was

it was great, you know, like right there.

767

Because then like I cross the finish line

and then I'm like, worst

768

sailor, worst sailor.

769

And then, person from

my team told me that, yeah,

770

he was like down the road

standing cheering for you.

771

So then I was like waiting for him and

772

when we had time to chat about his, like,

773

yeah,

we were running for like 20s next to you.

774

It was one of the coolest images

I've ever seen on on TV, you know,

775

you know, knowing, knowing him as long as

I have and being such a big fan of yours.

776

That that was it for me.

777

I have to say, I,

I had to a little teary.

778

Teary eyed, to say the least. But they.

779

And,

coming into the last kilometer or 500m,

780

when did you believe you have it?

781

Or when did your car tell you?

782

Keep going.

783

And you going to win the tour only

after the line.

784

Or was 100m.

785

500m to go 1000m to go.

786

When did you believe I'm going to take it?

787

Or was it only after you crashed

after the finish line

788

and somebody told you actually

you won the tour de France?

789

Yeah, to be honest, because of that

790

crazy pain, when I finished, the race,

791

when I crossed the finish line,

I was just so happy that it was over.

792

Like,

I forgot that I was doing tour de France.

793

I was just like, yes.

794

You know, just like people just like,

go away.

795

Like create some space

because they just wanted to break,

796

you know, it was like, because

all of the sudden everyone comes in.

797

So I was just overwhelmed by that.

798

And as I'm laying on the ground,

then like,

799

going back to planet Earth and I'm like,

okay, like what actually is happening?

800

And then, Beth whispered to me, like,

I think we have it, and I'm like, what?

801

And then all of the sudden

it's like this insane yelling in my ear

802

because the guys learn

they got a confirmation in the Arabia.

803

So I was like, what? Like,

what are you saying?

804

And they just, like, be saying, you think?

805

But it was just a growl

like crazy yelling.

806

So it was such,

807

insane, let's say one minute of my life

from,

808

like, crossing the finish line,

being extremely tired to, like,

809

not knowing what was happening to then,

like having this hope

810

that maybe actually we want

and to realizing that yes, we want it.

811

You share

812

this ectasy with so many people,

everyone is just like,

813

you know, shaking you and hugging

you and it's really, really beautiful.

814

So you're

now the tour de France Femmes winner.

815

You're going to be asked to do

a lot of things.

816

Your opinion is going to carry

a lot of clout.

817

The last two tour de

France winners were Dutch

818

and the tour de France Femmes

started in Holland.

819

What do you think the chances are

820

of the tour de France

from now starting in Poland?

821

And then if you.

822

What else would you like to see

823

in the tour de France Femmes in 2025?

824

And then maybe forward because us guys.

825

Yeah, it's not for us to say,

but I'm really interested to hear

826

what the winner of this year would like

to, to do or to say or to change.

827

To be honest, I

828

definitely would like to see the tour

growing in stages.

829

I think already next year

we have nine stages.

830

I don't want to say,

or I don't think that three weeks tour

831

is something that I would be

super happy about, but like having

832

something longer that will stand out,

like say two weeks tour.

833

Our longest was ten days Giro Rosa,

so something

834

a bit longer and maybe that, I mean,

the tour is super hard from day one,

835

but I think it would be nice to,

836

race for a little longer.

837

Not necessarily.

838

The stages don't have to be like this

year, 150 and 160 kms all the time.

839

Because I also believe that

if it's a little shorter, is more

840

aggressive, and actually it's harder

when you have like 130 kms

841

But to be honest, I

842

really enjoy racing in France because,

843

it also like it feels like,

okay, this is tour de France.

844

When we are in France,

845

I think we feel like it was tour de France

when we were in Rotterdam.

846

I felt like we were just like doing

a big classic.

847

There or a big race.

848

There is something special about the

crowds in France, so they really enjoy.

849

And what do you think

the tour de France is?

850

Well-balanced?

851

There are stages for the sprinters, for

the breakaways, for the climb climbers,

852

or you would like it

to have maybe a longer TT

853

or team time

trial or more or less mountains.

854

Well what what your if you could choose,

what would you like?

855

What would you like there?

856

To be honest,

I really like the first edition because,

857

there were some gravel stages.

858

There were some late stages

for classic riders,

859

some stages for pure sprinters,

860

and of course the last two stages

were full pure climber.

861

So I felt like it was very well balanced.

862

But it's

I think that that was like a great example

863

of what the tour could look like,

for the next year.

864

To be honest, in some ways

I hope for the activity.

865

I think that this discipline

is so beautiful

866

and somehow it's pushed away

or less and less races.

867

When I put that into the schedule.

868

Because

869

it's like, I don't know, it

allows you to suffer with your teammates.

870

And it also is more special

when you win it, I think.

871

I've never I'm not sure we won a Team Time

trial together.

872

And probably I would want to see more

873

classic style stages

874

with the shorter, punchy climbs.

875

I always find that the most interesting

876

also for the rider,

because sometimes on the I mean,

877

climbing stages are

878

really good,

but sometimes it's just like grinding,

879

you know, it was like you have to go

your pace hard based all the time.

880

And with the classic style racing,

like what we had this year,

881

finishing in Liege there is so much more

that comes into the final result.

882

You know, like even that positioning game

and like knowing the course and knowing

883

when you have to be in the front,

when you can kind of like realize this,

884

it's more engaging.

885

Well, the tour de France Femmes

is in the rearview mirror.

886

And as we know in cycling, it's like,

what have you done for me lately?

887

Right? Yeah.

888

I never won the tour de France,

so maybe it's a little different for,

889

for for you guys and gals,

but what's next?

890

What?

891

You know, we got the world championships

in Zurich, which is a great course.

892

You said that

tailor made you a huge bowl of pasta.

893

So you're out there training hard?

894

Yeah. What do we

895

what's in store

for for you in the next coming months?

896

Yeah.

897

So actually, I post

898

tour time was quite interesting

in the way that,

899

I was immersed

into doing a lot of social media

900

things and like, interviews and podcasts,

and it feels like an ongoing journey.

901

And that really tired me out, and I feel

like I just want to finish my season.

902

I felt zero motivation

going out for a bike ride,

903

and then as I was

going to Rome on the race, I got Covid

904

and I was forced to take

like four days off.

905

And during that time I was like, oh no,

like I actually want to be riding my bike.

906

Like I felt that something

was taking away from me.

907

So, normal.

908

I never want to get sick this time.

909

I'm so thankful for

910

being sick because that allowed me

to, like, rebuild the real motivation.

911

Because now I like today.

912

I went for 6.5 hours

and that was strong the whole time.

913

I feel like,

okay, I can be riding again. So,

914

I think that's very important

915

to for me to feel the motivation

because then I can put the work in.

916

And that also allows me

to, like, dream big about my goals.

917

So definitely going to Zurich

and seeing the course.

918

Yeah.

919

I want to go there for that

rainbow jersey.

920

I know in some ways I like,

921

it's not maybe a dream,

but I know that sometimes you need a bit

922

of some sort of luck and I'm like, oh,

maybe Demi will focus on Lotte [Kopecky].

923

Lotte on Demi.

924

I would just, like, find my way out,

you know, to the finish line.

925

But yeah, that's definitely a big goal

because I feel like the year

926

so far it's been great.

927

So why not to top

it off with another jersey?

928

That sounds like a pretty fantastic plan.

929

And you might, for next year's

930

season will be the tour defending

your title the biggest call.

931

Or you go, oh no, I tick, tick this box.

932

Now I'm going to move on

and try to win Giro

933

Rosa or de Vuelta Espana Feminine?

934

Yeah. Any plans like that or you go.

935

It's too far away.

I haven't thought about that.

936

To be honest, at first

I was having that feeling then like, okay,

937

I don't want, I don't want that aim again

for the same race.

938

I was like, let's do gira now.

939

But, some time, passed and I was like,

I got my desire back.

940

I think that sometimes

when you're tired and

941

physically and mentally,

then you don't really think clearly.

942

But I think that the main

943

the main goal is winning Strade Bianche

for now.

944

Well, Kasia,

945

thank you so much for taking so much time

and being so generous with it.

946

We're giving you the the good vibes voodoo

947

because, you said you were a little tired

from all the social media stuff

948

that you had to do, and now you're stoked

to train, and we're stoked to watch you.

949

And just.

950

It was fantastic season.

951

Fantastic tour de France Femmes,

and we wish you the best

952

for the rest of the season

and for the future.

953

And thank you again

for coming on the autumn.

954

Yeah. Thank you so much.

955

for the great.

956

Yes, that's everything for this week.

957

Now please

remember to follow us at or tandem

958

on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook

959

and wherever you got your podcasts.

960

Huge thank you to Kasia

for joining the podcast.

961

And also remember, if you want to see

the video version of this podcast,

962

it's up on our YouTube channel right now.

963

YouTube.com/@OddTandem.

964

And if you want the full,

uninterrupted version

965

of this podcast

and your name in the titles,

966

just head to our Patreon

where you can sign up for

967

just five bucks a month

and keep this podcast going.

968

That's patreon.com/OddTandem.

969

Thanks to our Patreon members

Scott, Steven Kimbrough, Marie

970

Teixeira, Jeff Kralik, Brian Colon,

Chris Merritt,

971

Tim Farriss, Jim, David Swartwout,

Bill Babcock, Nancy Ness,

972

Michael Terblanche,

Jim Burns and Swim school Bob

973

who’ve done just that

And please keep sharing the podcast

974

and keep leaving your reviews

wherever you're listening.

975

It really helps us to build our audience.