In this opening episode of Zentano’s new emotional intelligence in leadership series, Rich and Dave explore why leadership failure is rarely caused by a lack of intelligence, capability, or experience.

Many leaders appear confident on the surface yet struggle relationally under pressure. They become reactive, controlling, defensive, emotionally disconnected, or unknowingly create tension inside their teams. In this conversation, Rich and Dave unpack the idea that emotional intelligence is the “engine” underneath sustainable leadership confidence.

Together they explore how self-awareness, emotional regulation, relational intelligence, and grounded presence shape leadership effectiveness far more than technical expertise alone.

The conversation moves beyond the clichés of “soft skills” and examines emotional intelligence as a practical leadership discipline that affects conflict, pressure, stress, communication, culture, decision-making, and team dynamics.

Using real leadership examples, including reflections from their own business partnership, Rich and Dave discuss blind spots, over-functioning, emotional contagion, healthy conflict, and the importance of creating “time on the ball” in high-pressure situations.

This episode launches a new series focused on the real-world leadership problems emotional intelligence helps solve.

Key Talking Points

• Why technically capable leaders still fail relationally
• How stress leaks into leadership behaviour and team culture
• Why emotional intelligence is not “soft and fluffy”
• The danger of over-functioning and becoming the bottleneck for your team
• Conflict avoidance versus healthy conflict
• The impact of ego and self-worth on leadership behaviour
• Understanding emotional contagion inside teams
• The metaphor of creating “time on the ball” under pressure
• How leadership presence shapes organisational culture

Welcome to the Connected Leadership Podcast by Zentano. For forward thinking leaders who want to lead with confidence, clarity and impact.

We bring you grounded wisdom, real stories from real leaders, conversations that leave you thinking differently, feeling inspired and ready to act. Let's dive in. So welcome back to the Connected Leadership Podcast by Zentano.

My name's Dave Morris and this is one of our Leadership Unscripted episodes.

These are conversations where Rich and I sit down and explore leadership as it really shows up under pressure in the everyday messiness of life and beyond the textbook.

We've just finished our eight part series on confidence in leadership and it's our belief that confidence is foundational for leaders because it helps you step forward, take responsibility, and to be seen and to be heard. But here's what we see time and time again. Some of the smartest, most capable people still struggle to lead. Well, yes, they are technically strong.

Yes, they've got experience, and yes, they've earned respect from others around them. And yet things don't quite land for them. That leads to a variety of unwanted outcomes.

And worse still, leaders will have blind spots and they cannot see what others around them can. So to use an analogy, if your car won't start, it's usually a problem with the engine.

If your confidence isn't working for you, the best place to look is the engine. And the engine of confidence is emotional intelligence, or EI as it's sometimes known for short.

So in this series we're going to ask a different question. Not what is emotional intelligence? We have actually done that before.

But more importantly, what problems does emotional intelligence solve in leadership? So Rich, welcome to the podcast.

Hi, Dave. Thank you.

Now, in preparation for this episode, Rich, I did look at some stats on EI in the workplace. And what the data increasingly shows me is that leadership failure today is rarely about intelligence or technical capability.

It's much more about pressure, emotional load, a lack of self awareness, and importantly, how leaders show up relationally under stress. Confidence, as we said before, might get you into leadership roles, but emotional intelligence determines how effective you are once you get there.

So, Rich, I got a starting question for you really is why do you think intelligence, experience and even confidence still so often fail to translate into effective leadership?

Yeah, we've explored this a little bit before.

I think the first thing I'll just pick out is that word confidence that you said, because we've talked before about if you like, false performative confidence.

So people can look confident on the surface, but usually underneath there's stuff going on, which means that that confidence isn't grounded and isn't secure. And it's usually related to what we call an over reliance on competence.

And when I talk about competence in this context and in the context of leadership, I'm talking about, you know, a person's innate intelligence. All the, all that knowledge and those skills and that experience that they've built up using their intell.

And you know, the capability, usually technical capability that they've built up is really, really strong. And often their confidence, a leader's confidence is rooted in that competence. Yeah.

Now as you've, as you've rightly said, confidence with that definition doesn't necessarily then equate to effectiveness in the role. And we'll explore why that is in a minute. But you know, usually that has to do with inability to self manage in a particular situation.

You know, the inability to sort of tune into what's going on, inability to be relational and all of that sort of stuff. So confidence, with that very limited definition, just relying on competence doesn't necessarily mean effectiveness.

And if somebody has, you know, real capability and expertise, it doesn't mean that they're good at connecting, good at connection, good at relationship management, are good at understanding how they operate within the system and within the, you know, the power flow and dynamics that they encounter, you know, when we, when we become a leader. So leadership failure is often relational, not technical.

Okay, so let's ask another question then to sort of develop that a bit further. So what do you think is really happening underneath the surface? It goes back to my sort of engine under the bonnet analogy.

You know, what is happening underneath the surface when technically strong leaders begin to struggle under pressure.

So usually in my experience, when leaders have come from a very strong technical background or they have a strong expertise in a particular field or discipline, when they come into a leadership role, the other demands on them. You know, the relational demands, you know, the need to be influential, the need to be strategic, all of that sort of stuff.

To understand how they engage with the system and the people around them, you often find that they plateau.

Okay.

And the other thing that often happens is when their confidence is just rooted in their competence, when they become under pressure or, or actually they need to respond at pace to a situation and the complexity sort of grows. That usually exposes gaps that go beyond the competence that they've, that they developed in the past.

And, and I think that the other thing is leaders often fail to understand that they, in terms of how they respond emotionally and behaviorally in a situation, sets the emotional climate for a team.

So for example, simple behaviors like rolling the eyes or huffing or sighing or just responding defensively to challenge inside your team that sets the culture inside the team that sets, you know, the emotional climate for the team and do it, you know, understanding and being self aware enough to know that actually how you're behaving and how that's coming across to other people, that's a key part of being a leader. And so if you lack self awareness and lack the ability to self manage, you know that they're essential components of emotional intelligence.

A leader is going to struggle.

It's interesting you say. Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes these blind spots that people have are not around some of the bigger stuff.

It's the micro behaviors, like you said it simply as tutting and you know, you know those kinds of things and people just don't spot, they don't think they're doing anything wrong.

Yeah, yeah, there's a leader.

I know that, you know, this person, they have a habit of sighing and huffing and, and holding their head in their hands and they're just, they're simply responding emotionally to what's going on in the room. But I noticed that other people in the room are thinking why are they behaving like that? What's going on? Is there something wrong?

So they lack the awareness of the impact of those behaviors on the team because they're not self managing that in a way that tunes into the other people in the room now and I.

Guess going back to the series we just on confidence, that's where things like over functioning, trying to over prove yourself over controlling situations, that's where all that stuff starts to come out, isn't it really because of that?

Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, exactly right.

So the other part of, you know, what we call true and healthy confidence is actually you need to take account of how the ego, how the idea of self worth and self esteem, how that plays out in relation to competence.

Because actually if you don't manage that really well, if you don't manage the ego stuff really well, the need to prove yourself either to yourself or to other people, that's going to impact the way you feel, the way you think and then consequently the way you behave.

So let's dive into this engine of confidence a bit deeper.

And I want to sort of use the analogy of emotional intelligence being like a performance infrastructure because I mean if you strip away all the cliches around the terms like it's soft skills, you know, what is emotional intelligence really about in a leadership context? And why does it become even more critical the more senior you get?

Yes. Interesting the word soft skills, isn't it? I think I've said this before on a podcast.

One of my previous managers who I thought was really good leader and manager, actually one of the things he used to say to me was he appreciated my soft and fluffy approach, which was actually a flip side of the coin to his approach. But it's interesting when you use those words.

I think it downplays what emotional intelligence is, because emotional intelligence is not about being nice, it's about how you stay effective even when things are hard.

So for example, somebody who is self aware and has the ability to self manage, they're aware of their social environment and the context they work in and they can effectively manage relationships around them. So they're the four components of emotional intelligence.

So somebody who will be emotionally intelligent, they will know when to be ruthless and when to be relational. For example, it's not about soft skills, it's about knowing your context, knowing the situation and then knowing how to respond.

You know, so when to be ruthless, when to be relational, when you set direction and tell people what to do versus the need to engage and consult people. So good leaders balance those two things.

So it's not about just being soft and just being all engaging and consult, you know, consultant, consultant like and just being all relational. It's how you balance those elements, you know, particularly inside a business.

Another example would be how you help people navigate change because that's a big part of being a leader, navigating through change and challenges and complex situations.

So a good leader, in my view a typical response in the face of change is that people often, because they're losing stuff and they're potentially going through a grieving process because their job is changing or they might lose aspect of what they're doing, they often respond in a very victim like way, unhealthy victim like way, to what's going on around them.

So a good leader will challenge victim behaviour and help people process the grief and the loss in a healthy way that will bring them through the change in a more effective way. Now that doesn't take away from the difficulty and the challenges of negotiating that change.

You know, sometimes we talk about the waves of change, doesn't make the waves go away, but a good leader will help people navigate that in a way that processes the loss in a healthy way and not in a victim way. So they're just three examples of actually how emotional intelligence is not being nice and soft and fluffy.

It's about making hard decisions in a very complex situation.

Yeah. And let's be clear. I think we've mentioned this before. We've talked about the importance of language in leadership.

I think sometimes people think if you're operating with emotional intelligence, you're going to use lots of soft and what they would call soft and fluffy language. Actually you can be emotional intelligence and use very direct language, very pointed language.

So it's not about, it's not about using soft and fluffy words and soft and fluffy language. It might be in certain situations appropriate, but it might not be.

No. And the point is an emotionally intelligent person will be self aware.

They'll be aware of the social, if you like, the emotional context that they're operating within and they will flex their approach depending on what's going on.

Yeah. Okay, so let's go even further into this then. Let's explore really the limits of confidence without having some emotional intelligence to back it up.

So what's the difference between confidence that's grounded and sustainable versus confidence it starts to crack when the pressure rises.

Yeah, so we've talked about this in depth in, in our, in our series on, on confidence. But very quickly, one of the reasons I framed the early part of this podcast and I framed confidence is not just relying on competence.

Yeah, yeah, because.

Because if we just rely on our competence, when that comes under pressure and we get stressed, usually what happens is things like our ego and how we value ourselves as a human being and how we value ourselves in relation to other people around us. That's the bit that comes under pressure.

So true, authentic confidence comes when we understand and value the competence that we have and we understand our strengths and our weaknesses in a balanced way. But that's combined with a healthy relationship with our ego and sense of self worth.

So in other words, as a human being, we value ourselves as a human being, we don't downplay the value and what we have to bring to different situations. So in other words, you know, in extreme that will be like where we diminish our input, we're very diffident.

In other words, we play, we play our strengths and abilities down and we're very deferential. On the other extreme, we don't over inflate our view of self. So in other words, we're not arrogant. We don't need to be the best in the room.

We don't need to prove ourself. We don't need to over function. So we have a balance view view of self. So if you root healthy self worth with a Healthy view of our competence.

That's what we call grounded and secure true confidence.

And I'm guessing I know this again links back to other things we've talked about on this podcast.

But if when the pressure is rising, because we will often lean on our experience and we will lean on our competence, we probably one of the most emotionally intelligent things to do is to stop talking and telling and start asking questions and listening. Because that's one of the antidotes to this, isn't it?

Actually if we just can get recognize when this is happening and think, okay, actually if I listen more now and I asked just ask some really insightful questions, some curiosity led questions, that is one of the ways to start dealing with what's basically could take you in the wrong direction.

Yeah.

Because a good example of that is when a leader is under pressure, say in their team, and they're being challenged, they've got a difficult decision or issue to work through.

The danger, if that particular leader has a tendency to want to win, to want to dominate and to want to prove that they're right, is actually they would dismiss other people's ideas, concerns or whatever and they won't be prepared to listen deeply and to allow other ideas to come into the conversation. On the other extreme, you know, so if a person has, they undervalue their self worth, if you like.

The danger then is in situations where they need to step up and to allow their voice to shine and to express their needs and maybe to say, engage in conflict in a healthy way, they will have a tendency to withdraw and diminish their input in those situations.

So that's a couple of examples of how actually if people don't have what we call true and grounded confidence that's balanced and secure and based around this healthy relationship with self worth and competence, that really can unravel under pressure, in my experience.

Okay, so let's do an operational reality check then.

Let's actually think about when we look at real operational environments, what are the behaviors that immediately tell you a leader's inner state is starting to negatively ripple into the culture, into the team dynamics.

Yeah. So I'll pick up on what I was saying just now, I think.

So a leader who's come through, say a field where they're highly experienced in their discipline or their technical expertise or whatever that might be, if that leader starts to shut down debate because they believe they are right or they need to be able to prove themselves, that's one red flag actually, that true confidence is not at play here. It's Actually, the ego that's at play.

Now, an emotionally intelligent leader will know when to say, actually, because of my experience and my reading of this situation, I believe this is the right approach to take and this is what we're going to do versus actually being humble enough to know. Actually, I'm not really sure in this situation and other input from the team is going to be healthy.

You know, there's no right and wrong answer to this, but it's knowing when to shut down the debate and when to have the debate.

But even to take your phraseology there, even if you do know the right way to go, maybe the starting point isn't. Actually, I think I know what I would do in this situation.

But let's hear what everyone else thinks first of all, because that again, is an emotionally intelligent thing to do.

You're engaging with your people, you are giving them a voice, you're making sure they feel heard, which is all part of how we make this engine of confidence actually come to life and actually be a real thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another example I can think of is how stress unconsciously impacts our behavior.

Yes.

So this is where emotional intelligence comes in. Because understanding how you respond under stress, because we all get stressed, you know, no human being is immune to stress.

So understanding actually, what are the red flags for you and what happens to your behavior and your thinking and your emotional response, what happens to you under stress that gives you the clue to know? Actually. Okay, I'm allowing stress to leak into this meeting. So, for example, if I can give a Zentano meeting as an example. Right? Yeah.

So what happens between the two of us when we get stressed? So this is my observation. So I don't know. We've not talked about this before this podcast, so tell me if you think my observation is correct.

So when I'm stressed, when I become stressed, well, I allow myself to be stressed. I think I've become a little bit grumpy, a little bit picky, and maybe sometimes I might even withdraw and get a little bit dismissive about stuff.

Or spiky, I think is the other.

Way you might also go, yeah, spiky, yeah.

So I think when you get stressed, this is my observations, is your vocal delivery gets more clipped, gets faster, and I think perhaps you get spiky as well.

And I think so the danger for the two of us is when we start to get spiky and I'm responding from your more fast paced, clipped delivery and that sort of stuff. Actually, we need self awareness for us to both navigate through that situation, it's.

Like two hedgehogs having a fight.

Yes, it is. It is like spikiness everywhere. Yeah, yeah. So.

So even, even though we teach emotional intelligence, it doesn't make us immune from the stress response. And how we manage that. Sometimes we manage it well and on other occasions we don't manage it quite so well.

But hopefully with experience and hopefully we've got more emotionally intelligent over time. You know, we've managed that. You know, we've had a business partnership that's lasted over a decade. So we're doing something right, I think.

But that doesn't mean our relationship is without stress points.

Well, no, it doesn't and it never will be. But. And I think this is one of the things that people to think about if they're thinking. Just thinking, okay, I get this.

I get that this emotional intelligence engine, if you like, which is going to increase my robust levels of confidence is important.

I think one of the things that we've done, and I think I would recommend everybody else do, is build relationships with the people that matter to you most around you. So we spent a lot of time talking to each other about where our perspectives come from.

You know, we've really dived into what makes that other person tick.

It doesn't always make it easy because I may not, still might not see things the way you see them, but I understand why you think the way you do to a certain extent and the way you act the way you do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And we expect we spent a lot of time and energy making sure that we've invested in each other, and I use the word advisedly invested in each other. It's not wasted time. It's actually very, very worthwhile time.

Yeah, yeah, I think, Yeah, I think it's good. Yeah.

Because it makes. It makes those spike those spikes.

Sorry, that makes those spiky conversations, if they do happen, and they will happen from time to time, it makes them easier to navigate.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with that. Yeah.

And, you know, if you come from a place where you fundamentally value a person, even though you might be going through a difficult conversation at the time, you know that that fundamental value in of the person means actually you're not going to be, you know, completely dismissive of their input and their challenge, you know, so.

Absolutely right. No, absolutely right.

So just in this section is just two other examples I can think of which just explains, you know, how this stuff plays itself out in reality. So, you know, maybe I'm talking to people out there.

Perhaps you're you know, what we call the striver or the over, over performer, you know, so the person who needs to prove themselves to others or to themselves, you know, so they're compensating for, for that fragile sort of self worth, you know, by, by being the high performer, you know, taking, taking stuff on, doing everything, being the hero.

There's a danger that the high performer becomes the bottleneck in the organisation, you know, so if you are one of those people, try to develop some self awareness about the impact your high performance in inverted commas is having on your team and the organization. The other final thing I would say is are you the sort of leader that mistakes being calm for somebody who's avoiding conflict?

And there's a huge difference, you know.

So in my experience as a human being, as a natural conflict avoider, I might mistake, you know, staying calm and being nice and you know, not getting drawn into the drama, I might mistake that is a good thing.

Now there are times to do that, but there are also times actually where you need to get over your, your need to want approval from other people and engage in the conflict and be prepared to upset people, you know, because you're expressing your needs in a healthy way, it's still done in a way that doesn't invalidate the needs of the other person when we engage in a healthy conflict. But it's a really difficult thing to do with self awareness. I think it is.

And so, I mean, there's a couple of things to pick up on there. The second point you made about, I mean, conflict as we know is one of those big, big issues that a lot of leaders wrestle with.

And yeah, we feel that they don't manage very well. So you're right. Emotionally intelligent leaders don't just stay calm or quiet or use even measured language all the time.

They may well get a bit heated and emotional in, in terms of how they articulate themselves, but what they don't do is make it personal. So they might have.

Yeah, yeah, they'll have a debate around like me and you and I have in the past about we have different perspectives we don't agree on and we have maybe have. And we have had quite heated debates on that. But what we never do, I don't think is ever make it personal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's where it can really, really go wrong if you start making it personal.

Yeah, yeah.

I remember occasions in the past with, you know, some of those conversations where it's taken me a while to process what's going on, you know, so I have a danger when I'm in the middle of conflict to start to take things personally. And I need to. I need to process that so I'm open to the other person's perspective and don't shut that down.

So again, self awareness and self management is a key bit, you know, to do it, doing this effectively.

Because if you don't know yourself and you're not prepared to accept actually that I might be responding inappropriately in this context and being open to the fact you could do it differently and better. That's why emotional intelligence is the engine of true confidence.

Yeah.

And going back to the point you made about the high performer, you know, because I guess a high performer, they could not recognize the fact they are a bottleneck because what they'll say, well, look at the numbers or look at my.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

And actually we try to measure everything by numbers these days, it seems to me. And that is important. Important, but it's not the be all and end all.

Exactly. Yeah.

So you could be a bottleneck and you can't see that you're a bottleneck.

Yeah, yeah.

It goes back to my point at the beginning. Everyone else can see it, but you can't see it yourself.

Yes. Yeah. Indeed. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, Now, I think some really good examples there of how this stuff actually plays out in real operational situations, Rich.

Yeah, and these operational tensions are ultimately what it's all about, isn't it, really, in terms of having a workplace and a culture and an environment that is going to drive optimal performance, sustainable performance, you know, play a place where somebody wants to be engaged and motivated and they can bring all their sort of skills to the table, it's really, really important to get this right.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Okay, so let's just go one stage further then, Rich.

So when leaders recognize that they've moved away from what we call the connected center, that sort of grounded, calm, emotionally intelligent version of themselves, and they are reactive, they're stressed, they're being controlling, or they're disconnected from people. What does returning to a more grounded state look like in practice?

Okay, so I'm going to use an analogy here, which I picked up from a friend of mine years ago, so I doubt this person will be listening, but they may be. So this guy was called Phil Jones.

And the reason I mentioned is name is because he looked just like the ex Manchester United football player Phil Jones. And he played.

Okay.

And he played football as well in an amateur team. And he's a really good defender, just like Phil Jones was. Well, you could Argue whether Phil Jones was a good defender or not.

But anyway, but the, he played for.

England, so he must be.

Yeah, he did play for England. Yeah.

Anyway, I was talking to Phil Jones, as in the Phil Jones I know, and we're talking about the difference between amateur and professional football.

Okay.

Yeah, because I, I've, I have played a little bit of football in my time, but not much. So I was just, we're just having a conversation about his experience in football.

So, so I said to him, what's the real difference between amateur football and professional football? And he's. And he said it's the perceived time on the ball that professionals have. Okay, so I'm going to use this analogy of time on the ball.

So in other words, what happens with a, you know, somebody who's really confident, really grounded and operating from this place of what we call the connected center, so they're managing their stress in a healthy way. Actually you create space inside your head to perform at your best. You're not allowing stress to close you down.

You know, so really good, good sports people, good football players, when they're past the ball, they don't panic.

You know, they're grounded, they're secure and it's almost like they create this space around them that comes from within and they have time on the ball to think. So even though they can respond very quickly in that situation, they create time on the ball because of their internal state. That makes sense.

It does make sense. Yeah.

So an emotionally intelligent person in a stressful situation will create time on the ball for themselves. So in other words, what that looks like in practice, they will have the ability to notice and to pause, to self regulate and to reconnect.

And they do all of that because it's practiced and they've practised doing that and they've practiced not allowing themselves to be taken in by the stress and the emotional contagion of the situation. And they create time on the ball. Sometimes we call this putting the gap between stimulus and response.

And it's something you can practice and we advocate practice, you know, getting time on the ball in non stressful situations. So you can take that mindset into stressful situations. But that, that for me is the essence of emotional intelligence.

Create time and the ball in high stress situations.

Yeah, and it comes down to narratives, doesn't it? I mean, you know, as you know, I play a lot of competitors, club tennis and one of the most difficult things to do in tennis is play a tie break.

Because in a tiebreak every point counts and it can Very easily get away from you. Often I play doubles, not singles, but often in a doubles match, you'll find it isn't always the most talented pair that win the tie break.

It's the pair that can keep their heads under pressure.

Yeah, yeah.

And not let negative narratives suddenly take over. You've got the skill set, you've got.

I mean, I'm not the most gifted tennis player by any stretch of the imagination, but a lot of it is also about, as you said, creating that space in your head, trying to banish negative narratives that are really going to get in your way because that, that is going to harm you, isn't it? And any kind of stressful situation, if you let a negative narrative take hold, guess where that's going to end up.

Yeah, yeah.

So, so, for example, in the midst of, say, a challenging conversation or conflict, a leader that has time on the ball, they create within themselves the space to think. Actually what's going on here?

Is it my ego, my need to win that's driving the way I'm engaging in this conflict, or am I being open enough to the other person's perspective? So creating time on the ball gives you time to engage in actually what's going on for me from an ego perspective.

So that's an example of what it feels like and what it looks like in real life.

Another example might be, and go back to the example of you and I talking, it might be if we're having a heated conversation about something where we maybe are coming from different perspectives, I might notice that Rich is getting anxious. There's an anxiety building up in him and I might say, actually, I wonder if it's me that's doing this. You know, I'm not helping the situation.

I wonder if I asked a question, okay, Rich, I'm noticing this. What can I do differently to help you? That. That takes a degree of emotional intelligence to do that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. Yeah, exactly right.

So, so, you know, so developing our self awareness, creating time on the ball allows us to surface blind spots potentially that we've not spotted, enables us to stay grounded, etc, etc.

Okay, so that's going to be where we're going to leave today's conversation in this series that we're going to talk about emotional intelligence in very practical ways. We're going to talk about blind spots. That'll be what we talk about in the next episode. We'll also talk about staying grounded under pressure.

We'll talk about how you achieve things without getting burnt out. We're talking about empathy without the fluffiness. I'm looking forward to that one, Rich.

We'll talk specifically in an episode about having difficult conversations. And I know with your background as a mediator, trained mediator, that'll be a really interesting conversation.

And we'll also talk about how this plays out in terms of developing other people. So there's a number of sort of lenses we can look through here in very practical situations.

So let's just pull what we've talked about today together, Rich, because what strikes me is how often leadership failure isn't about a lack of ability, it's about something else.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, we've talked about actually performative confidence that's just rooted in, you know, your past experience and your competence and your, and the, the knowledge experience you've, you've, you've built up in your discipline. That doesn't necessarily equate to effectiveness in a leadership role.

And we've also talked about actually how that unmanaged inner circumstances state becomes visible leadership behavior. So creating time on the ball and the ability to self manage is really important.

When competence, which can collapse under pressure, it's understanding what, what is going on there for you when that happens.

Yeah, I think we need to make the point here that emotional intelligence is not a personality trait. It's a skill and it's a skill you can learn.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Emotional intelligence is probably most visible when you're under pressure. But it's there all the time.

But it's probably most visible when you're under pressure. I would also say leaders always set the emotional tone in the organization, whether they intend to or not.

Exactly. Right, yeah. That's really important.

And ultimately sustainable leadership. Good practice starts with awareness. It starts with regulation and managing yourself and having the right presence in the organization as well.

So sort of one, one sort of line to sum this up. Most leadership problems are not solved by doing more. They're solved by becoming more aware of how we're showing up.

And I think you'd agree with me on that, wouldn't you?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So, Rich, thanks for your time today. As we close this episode, here's an invitation that Rich and I want to leave you listening with.

Think about the moments when leadership feels hardest for you. When the pressure rises, when you feel stretched and frustrated or you feel responsible for everything.

Try to focus not on what you do in those moments, but how you are showing up in those moments.

Because effectiveness in leadership isn't just about confidence or capability, as Rich has said it's about your ability to stay grounded, present and connected, especially when it would be easier not to do so to be fair.

Yeah.

So I say in the next episode we're going to go deeper into self awareness and particularly the blind spots that come with that. And I think, Rich, you'd probably agree with me, blind spots matter far more than most leaders actually realize.

Yeah, yeah. Without a doubt. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So if this conversation has resonated with you, you will find more reflections, resources and structured learning through our soon to be released Fords Leadership Academy. It's going to be available very soon. We'll let you know when that's available.

It's an online resource center that includes our Fords within our confidence pathway, which Richard talked about before. And this underpins much of what we've explored today and in the recent series on confidence in leadership.

So when that's ready, we'll be making that known to you all. If you want to engage a bit deeper on any of these topics.

Yeah.

But that's it for today. So Rich, thanks for your time as always.

Thank you, thank you.

This has been the Connected Leadership Podcast by Zentano and thank you for listening.

Thank you.

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