What if everything you’ve been chasing—success, performance, validation—was never the point?

In this week’s episode of Beyond the Pills, we sit down with PJ Whitner, better known as PJ With Love—a creator, entrepreneur, and modern mystic redefining what it means to live fully awake.

Once a nationally ranked tennis player and founder of a multimillion-dollar wellness brand, PJ mastered the outer game of achievement. But behind the wins, his nervous system was unraveling. Burnout didn’t destroy him—it initiated him. What followed was a profound shift from doing more to being more, from the pursuit of performance to the practice of presence.

“Burnout isn’t failure—it’s the body’s invitation to remember who you really are.” – PJ With Love

In this conversation, PJ opens up about his collapse and awakening, sharing how that breaking point revealed the deeper intelligence of the heart. Through fasting, breathwork, and meditation, he began rebuilding his life from the inside out—learning to lead, create, and love from coherence rather than chaos.

We explore:

• The myth of high performance—why chasing optimization can separate you from your essence.
• The power of coherence—how aligning your mind, body, and spirit creates effortless flow.
• Nervous-system mastery—why calm isn’t withdrawal; it’s control, clarity, and creative power.
• Love as a strategy—what happens when devotion replaces discipline and presence becomes your edge.

PJ’s wisdom bridges science and spirituality, grounding ancient practices in modern reality. Whether you’re a CEO, creator, or someone seeking peace in the noise, his message lands with calm conviction: performance without presence is just pressure.

“You can’t think your way into peace—you have to feel your way there.” – PJ With Love

Throughout this episode, PJ and host Josh Rimany, Pharmacist-turned-healer and founder of the Beyond the Pills movement, explore how true wellness isn’t another supplement or protocol—it’s the restoration of wholeness. They talk about nervous-system regulation as a form of leadership, and how slowing down can actually accelerate impact.

PJ’s journey reminds us that every breakdown carries a sacred blueprint for breakthrough. His story isn’t about rejecting ambition—it’s about redeeming it through awareness. When you operate from love rather than fear, you don’t lose your edge—you refine it.

“Presence is the new performance. The calmer you are, the clearer you see, the faster you grow.” – PJ With Love

Stay tuned until the end as PJ introduces With Love, his upcoming movement dedicated to coherence and creative awakening.

You’ll also hear about:

• The Return — a 7-day inner-practice immersion.
• Wingsday — his weekly YouTube ritual of presence and integration.
• Full-Moon Fasting Ascension — a monthly reset to restore body and spirit.

If you’ve ever felt stuck in overdrive or disconnected from your own inner compass, this episode is your permission slip to pause—to breathe—to come home.

Connect with PJ With Love:

Instagram / TikTok / YouTube → @PJ.WithLove

Welcome back to Beyond the Pills,

where we explore the intersection of

ancient wisdom and modern science to

uncover what true healing really means,

body, mind, and spirit.

I'm Josh Rimini,

pharmacist turned healer and modern day

medicine man.

And today's conversation is one I've been

looking forward to.

It's a special one for me.

My guest isn't just a powerful creator and

teacher he's someone I truly call a

brother who's been walking this path of me

for the past I don't know three four

years and we've gone deep PJ Wittner also

known as PJ with love he's a creator

he's an entrepreneur he's a modern mystic

exploring the art of living awake and

A former elite athlete and founder of a

multi-million dollar wellness brand,

PJ spent years mastering performance until

burnout invited him into presence.

That collapse became initiation.

Leading with love is not only a movement,

It's at the intersection of mindfulness,

creativity, and modern spirituality.

Through practices like meditation,

fasting, breathwork, and storytelling,

PJ helps others return from ego to essence

and teaching the nervous system mastery,

emotional literacy,

and the architecture of coherence.

His message bridges the science and spirit

why we get along so well.

His message brings and remind us that calm

isn't withdrawal, it's mastery.

That devotion fuels innovation and that

love lived consciously is the ultimate

strategy for creation, leadership,

and fulfillment.

Brother,

it's been an honor to have you as

my friend and to have you here

welcome welcome to beyond the pills we

made it oh so excited dude where the

hell you been like you're my boy and

you haven't been on the show i guess

it's all divine timing right divine timing

and uh in the journey that i've been

on

I didn't realize the fear of being seen

and putting yourself out there,

especially in a new identity.

There's, there's a lot there.

So I think this is, I've made it.

I'm on the other side of that.

We've been on this journey.

There's so much to talk about, right?

We've literally walked paths together

through our own spiritual healing and

dispensa,

like all the things we've done together.

So, you know,

I kind of want to start from the

beginning, beginning,

but this is going to be so much

fun.

I'm just so happy.

I'm like excited that you're on here.

Like I can just talk with my bro,

but also in a beautiful way.

Cause we've,

we've both gone through this Ascension

journey in our own ways.

And,

I want to start from the beginning because

people don't know you they know I I

know you but you're an elite athlete a

high performer and like what did that

world teach you and what did burnout

awaken in you

Yeah, thank you.

Those are great questions.

So, I mean,

tennis started at twelve years old.

I got recruited.

I was living in Florida.

I grew up in San Francisco.

I got recruited to Nick Bolletieri Tennis

Academy here in Bradenton, Florida.

And so at twelve years old, I

was i had a little bit of a

gift and then i turned the volume all

the way up and so my life went

at twelve to tennis tournaments on the

road uh training five six hours a day

and my life shifted and i was like

all right i'm gonna be a professional

tennis player and i dedicated twelve to

eighteen um traveling nationally

internationally um

had some really good results um but right

when i was getting ready to go to

college hurt my ankle a fracture between

my ankle and my tibia and didn't want

to have surgery and i was like okay

this is going to help me get into

college but i know this is not what

i want to do and things just shifted

from there but the lessons with tennis

just i took for my whole life i

I didn't realize this until really late in

the spiritual game,

but if you're an athlete,

like you just always have that competitive

mindset.

It's just life's about winning.

Life's about competing.

Life's about overcoming.

And you do get a little bit addicted

to this identity of like showing, proving.

At least that's what it was for me.

So there's a lot of benefits in terms

of identity, motivation, work ethic,

but there's a lot of

snags growing up in athletics as well that

are pretty interesting.

Yeah, you were like,

I've known you through that process of

your your story, right?

And like, like, you like, it's not like,

peewee football like you were in it like

every day doing the things and and you

learn that resilience in your way you know

we both learned our resilience in

different ways me going through cancer and

lots of traumas but this is a different

kind of resilience right you were you were

moving in that sway and when

So there is always the gift we get

from those, but there's the shadow too,

right?

It's the space of trying to perform,

trying to be there for everybody else but

yourself.

Walk us through a little bit of,

because I want to get to,

The PJ I know, the PJ,

the ascended one here that has so many

lessons and so many things to offer.

I want people to know this backstory so

we can get to the good stuff.

Yeah, we can fast forward through it.

But I think now that I'm looking back

and this is coming up just this moment,

is that I didn't transition that identity

consciously.

And so all of a sudden,

I went from a tennis player to...

know more of an academic or and then

entering the workforce by first starting

commercial real estate and i never there's

no transition process so to live in an

identity for ten years and then not honor

it or find a way to shift out

i'm looking back and i'm saying wow

maybe there's still work for me to do

with that.

Now,

I got to a place where I think

it was my early mid-twenties where a key

moment for me was I was working commercial

real estate in LA after college and in

the grind.

And I got a phone call from my

family that my dad needed emergency heart

surgery.

And

i remember wanting to cry and feel those

emotions and this this feeling came up

from my stomach and my body fought it

off i was unconscious to this i wanted

to feel these feelings but it came up

and i had a i had really acute

pinch in both my temples and i was

like whoa and that's

a really key moment in my life because

I knew that I was numb.

I was disconnected from my emotions.

So that plays into, you know,

kind of later when we met where I

had already done work, you know,

when we met, let's say,

was about five six seven years later but

i had been an entrepreneur i shifted i

started a business a probiotics business

scaled that was in the hustle furthermore

i did some work with tony robbins there

was some some light meditational things

that i had doing but i hadn't gone

super deep so that disconnect from

emotions and from like the truth the

essence of who i was was

was still evident in how I was going

about life, just so hustle focused.

And that's when we met.

Yeah,

we met literally learning our signature

speeches for our businesses, right?

And how we got partnered,

like it's the syncretistic stuff, right?

It's like we got partnered to like,

hold space for each other as we built

this whole signature speech out,

which

truly like literally landed my first

keynote speech was that speech that we

recorded.

Like I got my first big gig from

that experience, but it wasn't the speech.

It was like that.

We were paired together.

We started learning about each other's

stories and it kind of just took off.

We just became friends, right?

We were following up with each other.

It wasn't really a business thing.

And then, uh, some guy named Josh, uh,

convince you to go to a thing called

dispenser so you were the you were the

the tipping point because my brother had

gone to one or or twice oh sorry

about that um it's on do not disturb

sorry that's my brother

as you were just saying your brother

that's how like yeah it did just happen

yeah so okay um so you were the

tipping point and dispenser was already in

my field my brother had gone i had

this book

And I might have even dabbled in some

meditations,

but I wouldn't consider taking a break

from the business.

It was like, oh, it's a seven-day,

week-long.

So not only do you and I hit

it off,

what put me into that public speaking

retreat was last-minute,

last minute friend of a friend.

And I was going into the unknown.

You were,

we were in two completely different

places.

You,

you were like prepared and with a speech

and ready.

And I was like, I have a business,

I have a product, I have a mission,

but like, what am I doing here?

And you were that kindred soul.

And we instantly just like connected.

And I, I, um,

I looked up to you in many ways.

I was like,

this guy is so awesome and he's so

heart-led in pharmacy,

which took me a second to put together.

And so I just thought you're the coolest

anomaly I've ever seen.

and um well we dragged each other like

for me because i i'd read all his

books for years like i was like oh

this guy speaks to science and this and

that but like i had never gone to

an event either and i'm like i'm going

we had a mutual friend at that time

kind of i knew you knew and we

all just kind of just said yeah let's

do it and like for me witnessing your

blast off in that that that event like

to me was like that next trigger for

you and for me and like how we've

gone down this spiritual yet grounded path

of you know truly i what i feel

and what i've seen in you and what

me is like that's what unlocked

this permission to like go all in on

life and do what really feels right.

So here we are, right?

This thing called PJ with love and moving

this thing.

Like you've got so many stories.

I don't even know where to go.

Like, yeah.

Well,

we can start with the first to spend

with the first dispensa.

So,

because you were the tipping point for me.

And we both agreed at the goodbye brunch,

that first weekend we met,

we both realized that like, oh,

dispense is something that I've wanted to

go do.

You're like, me too.

But you knew that the tickets sell out

like that.

And you knew that you had to be

dialed in right when the tickets went

live.

And so not only that,

and then we followed up and we kept

talking.

Then the day that the tickets were live,

you texted me.

And I was like, all right,

like I'm excited.

Like this is a God wink.

And also I'm getting the accountability

and it's like upfront.

And I was like, all right,

I guess we're doing this.

And I got the ticket,

not even really knowing if I could make

it because I didn't, you know, talk to,

you know, my,

my business partner yet or anybody like

I'm going to take a week off,

which was unheard of.

And, uh, I still remember.

My dad was like, are you kidding me?

You're in the middle of so many things

right now.

And my business partner was like,

if you go, this better change your life.

And it was so unheard of because I

was just working.

I remember the phone call because I

remember where I was.

And you were like, I can't go.

I don't think I'm going to go.

And I'm like, I didn't force you.

I remember it because I was just like,

I'm going.

It's in the unknown.

I'm going to figure it out.

And then all of a sudden,

you're just like, you know what?

I got, I got to do this.

I got to do,

I don't know how I'm going to pay

for it.

I don't know what I'm going to do.

I'm just going to go.

And it was like, and then in that,

that week we learned how to embrace the

unknown, right?

How to get into this space.

And that was a journey, man.

That was a, that was liftoff in our,

in both our ways in different ways.

But

Totally.

I think that was the first.

It shifted me inward.

I was at a point in my life

where I was like, man,

is it all about just chasing and external

and money and status and just feeling good

on LinkedIn?

The more I was stacking wins...

Um, and wanting to share that out.

I was like, wait, is that,

is that what winning is?

Is that what it's like?

There was like something beneath that was

saying there's something more.

And so when I went to,

to that first weekend dispensa,

I think third day,

my heart chakra just exploded in a walking

meditation.

And then fifth day, uh,

you were with me when, um, I,

I had a,

a divine experience and a somatic response

as well um i was shaking after a

really deep meditation from eight till

three in the morning and purging that

whole time as well and so that to

me was also an initiation of like the

internal journey and there's so much more

in the intangible sense

that we get to uncover so i think

you and i were like locked in at

that point we're like okay like there's so

much more in this universe pretty fast in

that space is like yeah it was the

two things it was like un unlocking the

heart connecting these was a big part of

my journey and then what you said is

what i think drew me to these things

was that was those deeper questions of

like

is there more is this it like all

that stuff on that outside we both had

some level of success but there was just

that this is a lot of this podcast

is like people start realizing there's

something more there's something beyond

that that i feel like to me that

week was

how I got really deep within me to

understand that there's a whole nother

universe out there that's not outwardly

focused, but inwardly focused.

And I think that's what kind of caught

us both into what I think in shamanism,

they call the wound is healer's journey,

but like how we both have gone through

our own ascension,

but we're now we're in the place of

like,

really finding our way of guiding and

helping other people in our own ways too.

And that's kind of where PJ With Love

came from, right?

And so when did With Love stop being

just a name and start becoming a way

of life for you?

That one's more recent.

There was many identities and journeys in

the last three years for me.

And some were more towards...

First it was Dispenza,

then it was more towards shamanic

pursuits.

We've both been through those experiences.

In our own ways,

in our own divine paths.

We never had a conversation and said,

you know what,

I'm going to go do shamanic stuff now.

We both kind of did it.

We're out here and we're like,

what is going on?

Like, this is a whole nother world, right?

It's like the energy world.

And, you know,

we've gone through our own plant medicine

journeys and things like that.

And so we can, we can maybe,

and you, you know,

you've had

You've had other big experiences too,

which have got you even more closer to

source and God and this divinity within

you expressively, because I've seen it.

And you've speaked about returning from

ego to essence.

And what does that look like for you

in real life and for you and those

also who you're guiding?

This is a big part.

I think people really need to understand

the essence of you.

Like there is this,

people call it in the spiritual world,

like ego dissolution and yada yada.

But like there's,

there's a true lived experience that

you've created,

that you've lived similar to my own

journey.

Like I taught,

I teach through my experience now and I

want people to get a little essence of

that.

Yeah.

So I think there's,

there's a few really key experiences that

contributed a lot.

Um, definitely plant medicine,

definitely dealing with the collapse of

business and burnout, um, choosing, uh,

making new choices.

I lived controlled by my shadow.

Um, I lived in incoherence.

I knew something was wrong,

frantic energy, scarcity, um,

Um, fear driven.

So just being in that place and there's

no way out when you're,

when you feel trapped,

I've felt enslaved to my coping

mechanisms,

things that were keeping me small.

And so the heart is the first step

I believe.

And it was for me.

So it was one opening the,

there's the heart chakra,

but just being able to connect to your

feelings.

And I had decades of repressed energy and,

and i was able to look back at

my life and connect with my inner child

connect with the different parts of me in

really critical experiences of my life and

i saw somebody really wanting to prove

themselves and i saw a tainted energy

throughout the whole life

So first was connecting my heart and

feelings and realizing where I was.

Secondly,

it was looking at some of these

experiences.

There was a lot of reframing involved.

There was tapping in,

spending time in meditation,

tapping into the quantum plane or tapping

into

Can you hear me?

Yep.

So tapping into a higher level.

And once you can start tapping into an

energy and getting beyond yourself,

then for me,

that was what took me from being trapped

in my mind and my thoughts to the

heart.

And in the heart, it's gratitude.

It reconnects us to our breath.

And we begin to slow down.

And that's where this intuition comes out.

I'm like, wait, wait, wait.

It's all about intellect.

No, no, no.

There's something far more profound than

the brain.

And it's the intelligence of the heart.

And that's the beginning of coherence.

And so being someone that was an athlete

that hustled for decades,

I always thought I was only as good

as my last achievement.

Telling myself to slow down,

it took me years.

And I had to keep slowing down,

keep letting go, keep surrendering.

And it was like an onion just going

deeper and deeper in the layers.

But once you do...

and you learn how to listen,

then there's something that really wants

to guide you.

And that is our soul.

And so I went from this period from

identifying, I was like, I'm a body,

like I want material things, consumption,

sense pleasures, desires, proclivities,

to wait, there's something more.

And then connecting to source,

connecting to an eternalness that I

believe we all are.

And once that shifted, I was like, Whoa,

um,

maybe I didn't get that multimillion

dollar exit of my business,

but like I tapped into something that.

I resonate with going multiple lifetimes

incarnations without getting to this

point.

And I was like, oh, man,

I've turned inward.

I am able to really connect with my

soul in such a deeply intimate,

fulfilling way.

And I wouldn't trade it for anything.

And once you have that much,

you have access to that much love.

All you want to do is is share

it with others.

Well, yeah, it it's kind of I've studied.

I've not experienced,

but I've studied a lot with near death

experiences.

And the same thing goes with people.

They say it's more real than real.

right it's that feeling behind the feeling

that's just more real than anything in

this outside world is that feel like that

that infinite level of abundance or love

and like and and we've we've studied the

science of this now we know a little

bit more but like it's infinite it gets

it there's no ending to it and when

you experience that viscerally and

somatically

Because that's, I believe, right?

I believe we're in this, you know,

we're divine beings living a human

experience with all these senses.

And when you sense and feel what you

just described and what I know other

people have described as well and what

I've described, it's bigger than big.

It's way more real than this real.

And you got to only,

it's kind of like in plant medicine

journeys too.

Like you have to explain it through

analogy because there's no word for it.

Totally.

And I've had a lot of funny analogies

come to me that are so- Well,

share some.

I want to hear yours.

The first one that was in that first

Dispenza week was the whispers that I was

hearing during the meditation.

So the first day we get there,

and these are multi-hour meditations.

And

I mean,

I had done maybe dabbled close to that,

but I was uncomfortable.

So you're just sitting with your thoughts

and they're just like loud judgment,

blame, guilt, shame, unworthiness.

Like you're dealing with all the different

layers of shadow and all these,

the loud mind.

And I think day two or day three,

I started hearing like, let go.

I was like, what?

Surrender, let go.

I was like, yeah.

And I ended up starting to understand that

I had been like willing life.

Like I was holding the wheel of a

car in a Kung Fu grip and white

knuckle.

This will happen my way.

And the universe was softly like,

we actually have something so much better

waiting for you.

Are you willing to let go?

So that's the first analogy.

The second one,

is you're on a boat and you don't

know how you got there.

You wake up,

you're on a lifeboat and you have about

a week's supply left of food.

And so everything survival mechanism will

tell you, stay on the boat.

Like you have a week left at least

and someone will find you.

But all of a sudden, you first off,

you have to calm down.

So you calm down the situation, okay?

Then you start hearing a voice.

jump out of the boat and swim that

way.

And you're like, what?

What are you nuts?

No, I'm going to stay here.

I have food.

So if you stay on the boat,

you would live a good life.

Like you would survive.

You would be okay.

Do you want that?

Do you want to settle?

Or are you willing to jump out of

the life raft,

swim in a direction that intuition,

that's something that you believe in

something bigger, greater than yourself.

and i tell you i i jumped out

of the boat so well that's i love

that analogy because it's like michael

singer calls it like the surrender

experiment right it's like in

when i was going through my healing

journey as you know like like the big

the big deal like i had done the

things and the things and there was

something left something inside me like i

don't get the whispers i get this i

call it the poof like the little the

little it's just a little and if

For me, that's what intuition is.

If you're not quite going to catch that

little whiff of air, you might miss it.

And there was this thing inside me.

I don't know how or don't know where.

You know, it's like,

I need to go to Peru.

I need to study this with these kind

of people that have been doing it forever.

And I didn't know how.

I didn't know why.

It was like my life raft.

It was like you have this life and

this family and this business and all this

stuff.

And I was like, no,

I got to do that.

I don't know how or why.

I'm just going to get it there.

And as soon as I made that yes,

the yes to the alignment, right?

The yes to...

And the breadcrumbs were just like, bloop,

bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop.

Here you go.

Like the path just formed.

Like the golden...

It's like the Wizard of Oz,

the golden path, right?

Just formed automatically because isn't

that the formula?

The formula is

When you know you're supposed to jump off

the boat and everything else is telling

you,

your outside world is telling you safety

and this and this,

and all of a sudden you do it

anyway.

This is what entrepreneurship is, right?

When you started your business in the

backyard of a kitchen doing kefir water,

you had no freaking clue,

but you did it.

You said, and then you became,

you were in all the whole,

like whole foods and that is just because

you,

To me, I love that analogy.

It's like, yeah, jump off the boat.

Not willy-nilly,

not just like somebody told you to do.

It was like there was a knowing, right?

That knowing is it comes from something

bigger than you.

It's not you.

It's this thing that knows the life,

knows you.

And so I love that analogy.

That was a good one.

Yeah.

I mean, so Peru for you,

I like the,

we're not telling people to jump off the

bridge here.

Like, like there,

but we're here to say like,

when it aligns with you and you say

yes, regardless of the outside, Pete,

when you do it with self richness,

self full is what my friend says,

then it becomes intentionally purposeful.

Because it's for a greater good.

It's for not just you,

but for some other greater good.

It feels and it is in that energetic

alignment.

And I think a lot of people realize

that when they made those decisions,

even though everything else around them

was telling them no,

but they knew it was the right decision

to make, generally works out.

yeah i i think the the key thing

for me was switching from intellect to

intuition you know once you're no longer

looking at just knowledge and grabbing but

you're aware you you recognize that your

awareness can expand and the first time

you feel that awareness expand or like

it's it's like a blind it's like a

it's it's a blind spot that you're like

oh my gosh and then you're like and

like wait that's

that's incredible and and then there's an

energy to the expansion of awareness and

you just want to keep going with that

so that that's kind of been the last

three or four years for me with you

know near-death experiences plant medicine

um incredible meditation retreats and just

uh spiritual teachings going into ancient

wisdom been really inspired by eastern

teachings been reading the the the gita

for the bhagavad-gita for

two and a half years now um just

came across not just came across but been

digging deeper into yogananda permahansa

yogananda so a lot of eastern um things

have been really inspiring and this wisdom

goes back thousands of years yeah and

that's why i think we both connect so

well in our our journeys is

There's no one formula,

but at the same time,

there's been teachings in all different

aspects, especially in the Eastern.

For me,

it just drew me to the Americans.

It drew me to learn the ancient wisdom

of the shamans and the healers,

probably because I'm moving in that plant

medicine,

modern day medicine man world that I'm in

is...

know learning those especially in the

south americas and going through that

whole journey in different ways in

different places of the world is like it's

not shamanism i'm just learning like

what's been done for thousands of years in

the healing world that are now equating to

this modern day world this modern day

science like the dispensers and all those

other people in the world that are

teaching it from a different perspective

That's why I think of having this

conversation with people all the time.

It's not or, it's and.

It's like ancient wisdom and modern

science.

We're putting these together so we can...

I love what you say all the time.

It's not intellect, it's intelligence.

Intelligence is knowing.

And of course,

I can throw the science to it all

the time.

There's eighty percent of the nerves go

from here to here, not here to here.

So we have this innate intelligence,

this knowing that we've forgotten about

because of the age of information.

Look at AI.

All the information is accessible to us in

seconds.

It's not getting us any closer to

wholeness unless we connect it with our

hearts.

That's what we're talking about, right?

And you and I are on the same

mission of helping, especially men,

connect this to this and become more

whole.

We've been doing men's work for a long

time in men's circles and blending that

into the science of

spirituality of healing yeah there's

there's a lot to unpack there but i

i would say for me there's definitely a

lot of baggage uh that men carry both

genders have their own um evolution of

expressing themselves in greater harmony i

would say

Um, but for me,

I think it was dealing with the pattern

was dealing with my own stuff.

There was family lineage and family

patterns, um, that were interesting.

There were gender related stuff.

They're all past relationships and

forgiveness and cord cutting and Honopono.

And there's a lot of really cool

techniques to just kind of

clean up and take back our energy from

certain situations um so those those are a

few a few key things but with with

men right now in particular there's

there's a really exciting thing happening

we're seeing men come alive we're seeing

men reconnect to their feelings we're

seeing men being challenged right now to

step into a greater embodiment of

leadership and i i think we can step

up

And it starts with balance.

It starts with taking control of our

nervous systems,

starts with putting our phone down,

being present with those around us for our

partners.

And

There's a lot of healing of inner child

and stuff as well because I believe that

the wisdom of men was broken.

It was passed down.

It was passed down.

And in some way in history,

it was cut.

that that wisdom what wasn't fully wasn't

passed down so there's like a lack of

initiation or like that the trials that

men typically had and and when you took

those away you know we had emotional boys

you know that were in men's bodies and

i was one of them um i would

say i'm

I'm still, you know,

figuring out who the man I want to

be.

And that's been a really beautiful journey

of like kind of bringing together,

bridging the child from the man,

from the spirit.

Agreed.

Well said,

and I didn't expect us to go down

that path,

but there is something to be said about

that.

In my men's circles here in Charlotte,

my neighbor's been doing men's work for a

very long time,

and he's very active in this thing called

the Joshua Project, which is...

teaching especially uh boys that are at

that initiation type age especially people

that don't have father figures and putting

them through an initiation initiation

weekend and teaching them the archetypes

the king, the lover, the magician.

And I've experienced that it's powerful,

even as a man,

to see and witness these young men become

men.

And I agree,

I think we've lost that sort of initiation

of sorts.

And I feel kind of connected to help

in that space.

And I feel like we're here to do

some of that.

I do want to go back though,

because you talked about the things you're

doing, but like,

how does the nervous system become the

gateway to consciousness and creativity

for you?

Cause you talked about grounding,

you talked about men staying like holding

their emotions and being grounded in

embodiment work.

Cause a lot of people talking about that,

you and I've had a lot of conversations

there, but I want to,

I want to hear from your perspective

because the second part is I want you

to tell people how you rewired your system

from stress and burnout to this calm,

coherent state, because that's,

that's the state we're in right now.

Right.

Yeah.

so i i it starts with meditation or

breath work or anything that you're

willing to begin to engage begin to face

the stuff that we've been bearing i mean

no one has taught how to regulate their

nervous system growing up feel their

emotions and so we all have tend to

have underlying trauma wounds um and so

access first is accessing the heart and

that is for me it happened through

meditation it could happen through

understanding that the chakra system which

is a beautiful system or seven chakras um

it could also be connecting with nature it

could be exercise it could be something

that puts you in the driver's seat where

you're willing to begin more of that inner

work for me

It was meditations.

There was some plant medicine experiences

involved that really helped me understand

how in control my ego was.

There was a shattering of identity.

There was inspiration from a lot of

different readings like Michael Singer,

Dr. Dispenza were pretty early on for me.

Tony Robbins even before then was just in

terms of asking questions and being able

to field truth within yourself.

Um, and then singing,

singing actually had been a really unique

experience.

One that I didn't expect to happen.

And I took a,

I was living up in New York for,

um, half a year.

And this was when I was still in

transition and figuring out if I was going

to continue with my business.

So I was in this like kind of

period where I was like,

let me try some arts.

Let me try to do some other things

and just see where my heart and soul,

where they want to go towards.

And I did a singing lesson.

And I felt so constrained while I was

singing.

And so much came to me in that

lesson of how I was taught singing and

a very strict upbringing in San Francisco.

And I was in the boys chorus when

I was seven, eight, nine.

I was a soprano.

I had a beautiful voice.

I sang at my cousin's wedding and I

sang at a Giants game,

the national anthem.

But the way I was taught was so

constrictive.

And so I'm there singing and I remember

I was asked to go for a note

and my brain couldn't let me go for

that note because I thought it was out

of range and I didn't want to sound

off.

And so I knew that there was neural

wiring shift available for me.

And

and it became this modality of harmonics,

which has enhanced my ability to move

energy within my body.

It's changed the way that I cry.

It has changed the way that I access

different feelings and, and, uh,

frequencies and it's, ah, it's humming.

It's, it's,

there's so many different ways to

approach, um,

energy and emotions and our fifth chakra

our throat chakra it's such a gift and

i believe it's actually a central way that

we really bring heaven on earth because

through our word you know the word of

god is is how we all believe that

this universe was created through the

vibration and we have that same gift we

have we can initiate vibration vibratory

sound

with with this and so do we just

use it for words what else can we

use it for and that is a really

beautiful query that i welcome everyone to

explore i love that and then

of course i got the left brain science

in me going when you hum you increase

nitric oxide by fifteen hundred percent

which increases oxytocin which is the love

molecule so it's like this you think about

it you convert that think into sound

sometimes we just say words but like

mantras and and and different types of

connections is how you create the

frequency and the energy

which then has that,

I love the word harmonics and how you

use it because it is, it's harmony,

it's harmonic frequency.

Cause we all know frequency is energy and

energy is, you know, vibration.

And this is how we do it.

We, how we do it with our voice.

And so I loved,

I loved that part of it.

Um,

We got to get into the stuff PJ's

doing now, though.

Tell us about the movement with love,

what it means, what it stands for,

what's unfolding within this for you.

Totally.

So I guess recognizing that this is a

game of mirrors,

we're here in the three D it's polarity.

And so anything that you're being,

that that is being expressed or that

you're choosing right now,

a lot of people are in patterns or

they're in loops and they're here to.

basically transmute that that experience

into something greater and so i guess the

question is if there's something if you

could be the greatest you could be what

would you choose and for me i i

choose love and so with love everything i

do how can i merge it with love

and then there's a point where we go

beyond doing to simply being and so how

can i radiate how can i

embody the the most the most love that

i that i can that's living through my

heart that is tuning in to the earth

being in rhythm with the earth um and

surrendering and allowing to be fully

animated by something beyond myself so

that's where like devotion comes in as

well and

And as soon as I started this journey,

things have happened that I can't explain.

And so you open yourself up to the

synchronicities that many people discuss

and you start communicating, I believe,

with the universe in this really unique,

potentially romantic, passionate way.

um there's there's humor involved there's

sadness it's it's happened even

sporadically when i'm when i'm reading the

gita in a meditation like i'll just start

laughing uh or i'll start bawling and it's

just i believe we're all part of feeling

and moving through this and all this

energy that's moving

on the earth.

For me,

how I want to show up is committing

to putting loving content out there.

I am pj.withlove on Instagram, TikTok,

and YouTube.

I just began that journey of getting

beyond myself,

my insecurities of being seen in this

radically loving, authentic way.

finding the ways to show up and share

love and light.

And now it's coming up,

some programs and things have been coming

to me of how do I help other

people connect deeper with their heart,

connect to their light,

create from a conscious place and expand.

And so there's a seven-day reset program,

the seven-day return,

that's going to be about a

different caveats to enhance their own

presence.

And that's the difference between being

able to have relationships.

Relationships are really difficult when

we're not all here.

And when we have the phone,

when we're thinking about the past and the

future,

when we have a lot of things that

we're worrying about, it really hinders,

it dilutes that presence.

And that is, I believe, our divinity.

Our divinity is our attention.

And that's what the outside world wants

more than ever.

It wants all of us.

And if you go the path of consumption,

if you go the path of external

fulfillment, that's a never-ending road.

This on the other hand,

when we turn inside,

when we focus on presence,

when we focus on love,

it's something quite different.

So that's a path and a choice that

I wanna help people through and how it

relates to their own life.

And there's some other things that I've

been coming up to, which I just did,

I'm in the middle of a four day

fast with the full moon.

And I realized that it's been so awesome

that I wanna also open that up as

a container

next year to get people towards, you know,

deeper fasting and moon cycles as well.

Why would the moon cycle?

Tell me.

Yeah, I think it's one, it's monthly.

So it's kind of like a reset.

And I think I would start people with

about a twenty four hour fast.

There's energetic,

spiritual health benefits to fasting that

are really significant and also

it shifts our relationship with desire,

with dopamine,

which are pretty rampant today.

So for me,

all the techniques and all the programs

and things that I would initiate are about

expanding awareness,

about helping people have greater

sovereignty or agency within themselves.

We talk about the matrix and the program,

but there's something to it.

When you live your life so busy and

your adrenals are shot and you don't

really understand it,

yet your nervous system,

you're a product of your environment.

And so what I hope for people is

that they ask questions, they get curious,

they lead life with a little bit of

wonder, their childlike wonder,

regain that and open up to a different

type of experience.

So I hope that for others.

That word awareness is just something we

can, it's to me, well, one,

when you're aware, you can't be unaware.

You become aware.

But the other part is awareness is a

choice, right?

Where we put our attention is a choice.

And this, the outside world,

especially the, that type of meta,

you know, is, is,

is like you said so nicely is like,

it's,

it's job is to keep you unaware of

your inner.

And it takes work.

This is why I tell you all the

time, I'm not on social.

I just don't do that.

Not because I don't love being connected

in the world.

I have LinkedIn and this podcast to

connect me to people.

But I just, I don't have,

I don't have room for that right now

in my life because of all the things

that are coming.

I love synchronicity.

It's my awe and synchronicity are my

favorite words.

And I tell people all the time,

I was like,

I don't have a gratitude journal anymore.

I have a synchronicity journal.

Because when you are aware and you are

attuned, and you're more in yourself,

whole, I guess, is a good way.

You see it.

It's there.

It's there all the time.

And at the same time,

when you're not aware,

and when you are focused on

whether you call it negative or low

vibrational frequency energies of like

lack and, you know, scarcity,

like you said, it was like,

that's also a law of attraction and how

you get it back to you.

So, you know,

you always have those things that,

that work with that.

So I'm, I'm,

so you're working with people now you're

doing these, these, these new,

exciting things.

So yeah,

new offerings and offering some one-on-one

as well, which is some energy work.

There could be some chakra balancing.

There could be some story reframing.

I could definitely kind of ask about

different things regarding like the body

and the chakras and the stories,

sometimes even going into traumas in

wounded areas.

And I have this protocol called Hugging

the Cactus,

which is going into, you know,

these really deep moments and shifting it.

And it's, yeah, it's, it's,

it's out there, but it's changed lives.

And it happens when we can slow down

and refine this journey.

So it's, it's, it's,

I just feel so blessed to help people

through these type of things.

Yeah.

You and I have similar,

let's call them avatars,

people we love working with,

entrepreneurs, high achievers,

because we were those people, right?

We were those people that didn't slow

down.

So I know you.

So it's what you say is because you've

lived it.

And like when I talk about longevity and

wholeness and body, mind, spirit,

it's not because I've learned it in a

book.

I've definitely spent well over twenty

thousand hours learning this stuff,

but I've lived it.

And so when you say the things you're

saying of working with people is because

some of this has been transmitted to you,

but you've also lived these experiences.

So that's why I think there's some.

beautiful authenticity to that.

And I love working with people a year.

You bridge neuroscience performance,

spirituality so naturally now,

just like it's your essence of who you

are.

How do you translate this modern,

I would call that the modern mysticism for

high achievers and entrepreneurs?

Yeah, so I think it starts with,

can you acknowledge that there's something

greater than yourself?

And with that acknowledgement,

there's reverence and there's openness.

And so I don't think it's, hey,

I have the answers,

but are you willing to question and

explore and play this game of energy and

frequency?

And if we can get there and have

fun,

and i think there's levity involved as

well because it it can can be really

heavy it can get heavy and so i

think you and i something that's really

awesome is that we've had so much fun

along the way and really deep really you

know healing heavily we've gone deep

The deepest of deep, I think,

in many ways.

And when you just said brevity and levity,

because when I met you,

you were like Sunny Culture,

Johnny Sunshine,

wearing a suit with the big brick.

And I got to expose you here a

little bit because we're brothers.

Do it.

One of your nicknames that we've created

over the years is...

Cause you had the big beard and you're

just very spiritual was goofy.

Jesus.

Yeah.

And to me,

like that is the essence for you because

it's like, you're very spiritual.

You're highly,

you ask those questions that don't need

answers.

You're, you're, you're awesome.

You've been a good coach and friend for

me.

But you play that levity,

that comedian kind of feel.

Because to me,

the same thing with shamans.

They literally do deep work and they

freaking laugh half the time because they

make fun of themselves and life because

they...

There's a lightness to that when you're

like, you know what, the world might be,

you might feel like it's shutting down,

but it's like,

it's going to be all right.

I'm going to wake up tomorrow.

Everything's good.

And sometimes I use that.

And to some people it's very offensive,

but I think, you know,

you gotta be a little goofy.

You gotta be a little fun or else,

or else it just becomes so heavy.

Right.

Cause it is, we're doing deep work too,

you know?

Inner child.

I think there's some innocence there.

There's some trust.

I think it comes from a place of

trust, knowing that at the end,

it's going to be okay.

And if anything happens between here and

there, what, what,

in what way do we choose to go

through that, that trial?

So if the journey is the destination,

then shouldn't we laugh along the way?

Enjoy the journey, right?

Not the destination.

I always use the analogy of like,

if you keep chasing the sunset,

you'll never get it.

It's always moving, right?

And so, you know,

that stillness over that hustle is,

do you, like, I feel like that's what,

like, we've uncovered here.

Like,

why do you believe stillness rather than

hustle is becoming the new competitive

advantage as a competitive person that you

used to be?

I think it has to do with your

point of resonance.

So if I'm hustling for it,

there's an inherent scarcity or lack that

I'm seeking to grab that something is

outside of me.

But there's greater flow in allowing for

things to move towards you.

So I believe that we are a magnet.

And so embodying that magnet,

what would you choose to be,

to magnify towards you?

And you say, okay,

what am I pulling versus what am I

chasing to me is pushing.

And I just, for me,

I spent a lifetime already pushing.

So I've tried that.

I've tried, you know, all those ways.

And I felt good about myself for a

little bit.

I believe I was tapping from a finite

source.

And, and for me, it's like,

it's coffee and it was proving it was,

it was literally, it was unworthiness.

That's what I saw within my life.

And that's what allowed me to be an

international tennis player,

build a multimillion dollar business,

you know, do so many incredible things,

um, all my achievements.

But one day,

living from the heart in presence to me

is worth more than all of those

achievements.

you've lived it through your experience

this isn't something we learn in a book

we we know um yeah and it and

and it's something greater it's that's the

energy that i want to contribute to this

plane to this universe and so knowing that

then how do i reorient my values and

one of them i was focused on the

material in in vedic they call it the

maya the delusion

And the other,

you're focused on simply being connected

to it all and loving each breath,

being grateful for each breath,

for being fully present and admiring and

being so excited with everybody we

interact with.

There's a complete shift there.

And I think we're at a time where

the world is upgrading.

So it's exciting.

Where do you think we're going?

I know you know,

we're in the same circles of the seekers

and the finders and the people that are

raising consciousness,

but I feel like we're at a five

thousand year cycle of humanity shifting

into something completely new.

I want to know what you think,

where we're going.

Well,

I'll give you some different hot takes

here.

But one is the yugas.

And that's the astrology and the science

coming from India.

And they believe that there's these yuga

systems, which are about a twenty four,

twenty four thousand year cycle.

And so we just came out of the

ascending Kali Yuga,

which was the darkest period.

So there's two periods of each descending.

And so we have the descending Kali Yuga

and then the ascending.

And now we are in the bronze age.

So in the bronze age,

you're going to begin to see an expansion

of consciousness, of technology.

So there's a general uplift,

which I'll point to that.

Then I would say there's a divide that's

happening.

And it's

are people going to lean towards

connection with self into source to God,

or are they going to choose technology?

So there's like this transhumanist,

you know, thing that's happening.

And I, listen,

I use chat GPT and I enjoy technology,

but it doesn't replace our connection with

source.

It doesn't replace the,

the original frequency, the truth,

which is love.

And so other people are going to have

their own journeys to discern what is

right for them.

And that's where the split is happening.

I think we're at the first point where

there's multiple realities happening right

now.

And you can feel it.

There's somebody that you'll interact with

and you're like,

we're on two different universes.

And you are.

And it's because people with different

points of resonance and living in

different frequencies are projecting the

realities in completely different ways.

And so I think that split is going

to be more abrupt and I think it's

going to be very peaceful.

I don't think anything bad is going to

happen,

but people that are just still wanting to

choose these,

these other types of realities are going

to be able to choose that free will.

And there are other people that are

turning inward and,

And are recognizing deeper parts of

themself.

And when you can,

when you go deeper within yourself,