What counts as financially smart—and what’s just plain cheap?

In this bonus game episode, financial expert Pattie Ehsaei is putting her money philosophy to the test with Rich Move or Broke Move?

I give Pattie a series of deliberately tricky money, dating and lifestyle scenarios where the “right” answer isn’t always obvious. From living with your parents at 45 to refusing first class, insisting on a prenup, buying a dream house in cash, splitting the check and deciding how much luxury is too much, Pattie has to make the call.

And because this is Pattie, she doesn’t just choose a side—she explains exactly why.

In this episode:

• When saving money is smart versus simply cheap
• Whether living with your parents in midlife can actually be financially savvy
• First-class travel, luxury spending and knowing what’s worth it
• Prenups, financial independence and protecting your own money
• Dating someone with very different financial habits
• Buying a home in cash versus keeping your money invested
• Why appearances can be completely misleading when it comes to wealth
• The money decisions that get much more complicated in midlife

Pattie is the author of Never Date a Broke Dude: The Financial Freedom Playbook and is known online as the Duchess of Decorum.

Follow Pattie:

@duchessofdecorum

PattieEhsaei.com

If you enjoyed this game, follow The Iconic Midlife wherever you listen to podcasts, subscribe on YouTube, and follow @theiconicmidlife and @redcarpetroxy on social media.

And if you haven’t heard Pattie’s full episode yet, go back and listen to:

Financial Expert Pattie Ehsaei: Money, Marriage & the Cost of Giving Up Control

The Iconic Midlife

Hosted by Roxy Manning

New episodes weekly.

I made this game for you.

It's called Rich Move or Broke Move.

I love that.

Oh my God, what a great game.

I'm so in right now.

So I will give you a scenario and you tell me if it's a rich move or broke.

Still lives with his parents at 45 because he says paying LA rent is throwing money away.

That first one is really tough.

I would have to say rich.

Rich move.

Really?

You're dating a man who earns $500,000 a year.

He drives a 10 year old Toyota, flies economy and wants you to do the same because he plans to retire at 50.

100% R. I have a rule.

If it's under six hours, I fly economy.

Really?

Yes.

And I have money to buy a business class ticket.

I refuse.

Never jeopardize your financial future for a man.

Ever.

That's exactly it.

Before we leave, we always like to play a game with our guests.

You are up for it?

I am up.

All right.

Okay.

I made this game for you.

It's called Rich Move or Broke Move.

I love that.

Oh my God, what a great game.

I'm so in right now.

And you, I know, will be so good at it.

Okay.

Okay.

So I will give you a scenario and you tell me if it's a rich move or broke.

Okay.

Number one, your boyfriend makes $150,000 a year, has no debt, maxes out his retirement accounts and still lives with his parents at 45 because he says paying LA rent is throwing money away.

Rich move or broke move?

Oh, you made that.

That first one is really tough.

I would have to say rich move.

Rich move.

Really?

Is it just because he's not throwing rent money away?

He's not throwing money.

He's thinking about the future.

He's not concerned about what people think.

He's living with his parents and he doesn't give a shit what people think.

He's like, you can laugh at me all you want, but I am going to be the one on the yacht when I retire.

And you're going to be living in a one bedroom apartment.

Yes.

So I'm going to say I don't love living with.

With your parents.

Right, right.

And hoping that if you guys get married he will have money to get you a house.

But he probably will because he's saving money living with his parents.

Yeah.

Rich move.

Okay.

Rich move.

Okay.

And it's the mindset's important.

It's you in the head.

It's about the mindset.

Very important.

Okay.

A man takes you to a fantastic restaurant on the first date, he picked it, made the reservation, and when the check comes, he uses a two for one dining offer.

He specifically chose the restaurant for rich move or broke.

Oh, my God, these are awesome.

Rich move, really?

Okay, okay.

Even though he might not get laid that night.

Yes.

It's still a rich move.

Again, think.

Think of it this way.

You always want to think of it this way.

Okay?

He's.

First of all, he's not asking you to pay.

He's paying.

Right.

And he's not blowing money.

He's not blowing money.

Anytime someone isn't blowing money, I think you.

Except for certain, certain situations, it's a rich move because he's.

Again, he's like, hey, I have two for one.

Why not use it?

Let's do it.

Okay.

Could be mean money for a nicer.

Diamond ring in the future.

That's what I'm saying.

That's a man that cares about his money.

Okay, but.

Okay, let me ask you this.

What is the line between somebody who's smart with their money like that, but too cheap?

Like so.

So let me tell you the line.

The line is this.

You go out to dinner with someone and they itemize everything on the bill and they say, you have the Coke for $2.

I had the whatever for $1.

Your.

Your drink, you know, you're.

That's cheap.

That's cheap.

Because that's no longer about putting away money.

That, that, that is, that is just someone that wants to control money.

Right.

And that's a cheap move.

Yes, right.

So that, that's where you'll, you'll see the line.

It's not that.

He is, you know, a person who wants to save for their future.

Okay.

Who wants to save for their future, is not a broke person, but a person who wants to control the money and just doesn't want to do anything.

And it's just like, you know, oh, no, I don't want.

I don't.

I don't want that ice cream because I, you know, I can't aff.

Right.

Just like, come on, dude, like, live a little, you know, like, get it together.

Yeah.

Okay.

Your husband makes three times what you do and pays 75% of the household expenses.

But because he's paying more, he believes he should have the final say on major purchases.

Rich move or broke move?

Oh, broke move.

Okay.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Broke move.

Broke move.

Should it be then equal to make decisions like that?

Yes, absolutely.

The decisions should be equal.

I think, I think in a home now, I always say, when you're talking about how much someone contributes to the finances, you should contribute the same amount, the percentage.

The same percentage into the pot.

Meaning, like so whatever dollars you need to live, right.

You figure out how much that is.

Let's say it's $1,000.

Let's, let's just say it's $1,000 dot.

Okay.

Depending if he makes four times more than you.

Right.

You contribute the same percentage of your income to that.

So if you need $1,000, okay, so he can, he contributes $750 and you contribute 250.

Okay, but it's the same percentage.

It's the same percentage allocation.

I see, I see.

Okay.

So you're contributing the same amount, the same percentage of your salary and into it.

So that makes it even.

Okay, good point.

Your partner wants a prenup, which you're completely fine with.

But his prenup says that whenever each of you earns during the.

Whatever each of you earns during the marriage remains entirely separate.

Even if one of you stops working to raise kids.

Well, no, that's absolutely a broken move because that's not fair.

Right.

Because you're not earning anything, so you're not going to keep anything and he's going to keep all the money.

Right?

Right.

I think, you know, there was something I was reading that said like, women, I think when they stay home to raise kids, that's at least, I don't know, $300,000.

Like it's equivalent to like CEO position.

Basically try to hire someone to cook, to clean, to take care of the kids, to do all the stuff in the house that people don't understand.

That's.

That's work.

That's work.

That is so much work.

Yep.

You're dating a man who earns $500,000 a year.

He drives a 10 year old Toyota, flies economy, doesn't buy design or anything, and wants you to do the same because he plans to retire at 50.

Rich move.

Oh, rich move.

Okay, 100% rich move.

So what about the finer things?

Well, okay, you can have the finer things later in life.

Okay.

He wants to make sure that you guys are set before you blow your money.

And that's okay.

Like, I have a rule.

And I'm, you know, luckily very financially well off.

But I have a rule that if it's under six hours, I fly economy.

I don't even fly comfort.

Oh, really?

You'll go straight economy in the back.

Flying to New York?

Really?

Yes, that is my rule.

That, that is my rule.

And I have money to buy a first class ticket.

I have money to buy a business class ticket.

I refuse.

Okay, what about the things?

Because, you know, we as women.

Yeah.

Sometimes there's a lot of upkeep, right.

We get hair done, we get nails done.

We get.

Do botox.

We do like some people do facelifts.

Like, it's.

There's a whole gamut that men are not spending money on as much.

I mean, maybe they get their nails done and get a massage or something, but, you know, it just to even be a woman sometimes is more expensive.

It is.

So what do you say to that?

Well, I say that, you know, upkeep is great, but you have to still upkeep within your means.

You really do.

I mean, it's like I know so many women that, that blow thousands and thousands of dollars every two months just on hair extensions.

Oh, right.

Yeah.

I mean, they're.

So you gotta pick one.

Okay.

You know, you can't get the botox and the hair extensions and the lashes and, you know, the brows and the nails.

And the nails and, you know, whatever.

Tanning and all the things.

What I say to people that are trying to budget, I say, I talk about the three treat rule, okay?

And this is the rule.

You pick three things that you absolutely cannot live without, but you cut out everything else.

So for me, let me tell you what that was for me when I was budgeting, okay?

That was my gym membership because health is really important to me.

One was my nails, because I like to have nice nails.

And the other one was I allowed myself to go out to eat once a week because I love food, I'm a foodie.

But I cut out vacations.

Yes.

I cut out vacations.

I cut out concerts.

Oh, I cut.

Yeah.

I cut out all.

I cut out Botox.

I cut.

Yes.

I. I did not.

You were serious about this?

I had to be.

I was $190,000 in debt.

Okay?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you had to, like.

I had 116 student loans.

I had 30, 000 credit cards that I got from supporting a broke dude.

That's why I wrote my book.

Yeah.

Yes.

So I, I had to.

But I cut out and I was out of that debt in five years, and I had money saved for my first property.

Five years?

Yeah.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

So you do have to make those.

Adjustments a lot you have to make because you.

It's like losing weight.

Okay, just think about this.

You have been eating and.

And I'm analogizing this, right?

You've been eating like a person that weighs 600 pounds for years.

This is why you're so in debt.

Okay.

If you want to lose weight, you got to cut it out.

Or take a GLP one.

Exactly.

Take a GLP one.

But, you know, you.

You either.

You know, you either have to bring in more money.

Right.

Right.

Or cut out.

That's.

That's the only.

That's the only way.

Yeah.

There's no quick fix.

Yeah.

So, like.

Yes.

Yeah.

So I. Roxy, I cut out everything.

Everything.

I did not buy a piece of clothing I didn't absolutely need to survive.

Were you happy?

Yes, because I saw the debt coming down.

Yeah.

And that's a really.

And I was happy because there were three things in my life that I could still do that were important to me.

Right.

Those were the three things that made me happy.

Because if you don't have those three things, you're just going to come right back.

You're going to fall because you're going to feel deprived.

Right.

It's just like that cheat meal.

If you're losing weight, you have that cheat meal or a cheat day.

So you stay on track, and that's what helps you stay on track.

Track.

That's a good point.

You should always have, like, the three.

And maybe those three things change year to year.

You know, you can adjust.

Yes.

And I. I have.

For people that are in debt, just so they know, I have a class.

It's called Debt Detox.

You can get it on my website, and I give you the exact plan that I use to get out of $190,000 in debt in five years.

Yeah.

So people that are in debt, that's a really great course.

You can just take it.

You can take.

It's online, but it will teach you exactly what you need to do do.

So there's even hope for people in midlife that are in debt to be able to get out of it.

Most of.

Most of my clients taking that course are midlife people.

Because.

Because people that are young either haven't built up that debt yet or don't understand how bad it is.

Right.

It's only when you get to midlife, you're like, oh, my God.

Yeah.

Yeah, good point.

Okay.

Okay, here we have.

Okay.

You're 50, recently divorced, and receive a substantial settlement.

You use part of it to buy your dream house in cash.

Because after everything you've been through, you never want to owe anyone anything anymore.

Rich move or broke move?

It depends on what you would do with the money if you didn't put it down.

Okay.

So if you're not disciplined, if that money that you bought the house with in cash.

If you were going to blow that money, that's a smart move.

Okay?

That's a rich move.

If you were going to blow that money.

However,.

If you were going to put that money in the stock market for 10 years, that would be a broke move, and here's why.

Because the house that you're buying, you can get a loan on it now.

6%, Right.

You're paying 6% interest.

That money in the stock market.

Excuse me, is going to earn you at least 10%.

So do the math.

The money is much better off in the stock market than it is parked in your house.

Right.

Because once it's like in your house, it's in your house.

Your house.

That's it.

That's it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So if.

If you're disciplined enough to invest that money into something that's going to make you more than the interest rate that you're paying for your home, then it would be a broke move.

But if you're not disciplined enough, it's a rich move.

Your boyfriend earns less than you do.

He insists on paying for every date because he says that's how I was raised.

But doing it means he's saving almost nothing every month.

Rich move or broke move?

Broke move.

Because he's doing it to impress you.

Anytime.

Really?

I think this is what it is.

The litmus test is, are you doing this to impress other people?

Good point.

Yeah.

That's the litmus test.

If you're doing this to impress other people, it is almost always a broke.

Yeah, it's a bad move.

Yes.

Yes.

You make more than him.

You know, there is no reason that he needs to be broke just to impress you.

Because this is the way I was raised.

You know, that's bullshit.

Bullshit.

Okay.

Your best friend is 200,000 sitting in a savings account because she says I worked too hard for this money to risk losing it in the stock market.

Rich move or broke move?

Depends on when she needs that money.

Ah, okay, so if she needs to take it out sooner rather than later.

Yes.

It needs to stay in the savings.

Yes.

If.

If she needs it less than 10 years, it's a rich move because she's gonna need that money.

If that's.

If that's money for her retirement that she's not gonna need into retirement.

That is a broke move.

Because she's only earning, I don't know, 3 or 4%.

Or she could put in the stock market, earn 12%, 10%.

Yeah.

Okay.

You're dating a billionaire.

He asks you to sign a prenup never combines finances with you and expects you to continue working and maintaining your own money for the entire marriage.

Rich move or broke move?

That is a rich move.

Okay, that is a.

For him or for her?

For both.

Oh, because.

Because a man that cares about you wants you to have your own money.

I'm telling you, people think that you marry a billionaire, right?

And these billionaires marry bimbo.

Some of them do, most of them.

And I know a lot of billionaires, most of them marry women that have careers, that are successful, that are doing in their lives because it doesn't turn them on to be with some bimbo who's not doing anything all day.

It's such a turn off.

They tell me they're like, you know what?

I've dated those girls.

I have nothing to talk to them about because they haven't done all day.

They're like.

But my wife, who has a successful career, we talk about her, her job, we talk about our business, we have so many things in common.

She's hustling.

That's hot.

So I actually think, I actually think that that's a rich move now.

I mean, you'll benefit.

Just because he's not going to want to sit in economy like my ass when I go to New York.

Right?

That's how he got to be billionaire.

Maybe, you know.

No, but maybe.

Right, no, exactly, right.

But you know, it, it's.

You have to understand that people, people have money.

Unless you inherit the money, right?

Unless you and people who inherit it lose it anyways.

It's like people who, who win the lottery, they lose that money.

I was so shocked to hear that.

You never have to work for it.

You don't, you don't know the value of the dollar.

Right?

But people who are billionaires, trust me, it was hard for them to get there and they sacrifice a lot to get there.

So they're not going to want somebody that doesn't do anything with their lives.

You know who that makes reminds me of now?

I don't know in everyday life how he is, but I would think like Mark Cuban or somebody like that would be like smart with his money.

No, exactly.

Not throwing it away.

I love, I actually love Mark Cuban.

I met him at Bill Marshall.

I was backstage.

Yeah.

Were you on the show?

No, no.

My friend is his assistant, so she allows me to go to the show.

I was, I was backstage and I met him and he is the smartest, most down to earth dude and is very smart with money.

He's very thoughtful.

About how to spend it, what to do with it.

And yeah, he would not want a bimbo, you know.

Again, I don't know anything about his wife, but I'm just saying, like, most of these billionaires.

Have you heard of the podcast is called All In?

Yes, yes.

All In Podcast?

Okay.

Yes.

Every single one of them are married to very successful women.

Isn't that amazing?

Every single one of them.

Yes.

They're smart.

They get it.

And maybe the women aren't working anymore, I don't know.

But they were all very successful.

They all had careers.

They weren't bimbos, and they're still making money.

See, I think you need that, like, challenge and you need that, you know, like, you need that person to be able to conversate with you and have.

No, absolutely.

And.

And, you know, if someone's marrying you for your looks, they're going to trade you in 10 years later.

I mean, look at Lenny Hochstein.

Absolutely.

They're just going to trade you in.

You think that you're going to be the exception, and you're not.

Never, never.

You're not.

If that is what it's important to a dude, that's going to be important to him ten years down the line when you, when you're older.

Now, looking back, what would.

What advice, financial advice, would you give yourself 20 when you were 25?

Yeah, the financial advice that I would give myself when I was 25 is never jeopardize your own financial Never jeopardize your financial future for a man.

Never jeopardize your financial future for a man ever.

And we do this a lot as women because we are so quick to give up financial protection because we don't want to start a fight.

We don't want to emasculate him.

We don't want him to feel a certain kind of way.

So we're like, yeah, we'll give you money or forget it.

I'm not going to ask about the deed or I'm not going to ask about the accounts.

I'm not going to make you feel uncomfortable.

And that is how women get screwed.

That's exactly it.

Like, don't be afraid to say to your man, you know, we have a talk about that.

That is the one advice I would give myself.

I took out $25,000 of cash out of my credit card to give to a guy I was engaged to that I didn't marry because he was starting a business.

I never got that back.

Never.

And there's nothing you can do to get it back.

Right.

Never got that back.

And then in my 30s, you know, I wrote.

Wrote about in my book, I supported a broke dude who sat on my sofa for two years.

I was afraid to ask him to pitch him for the light bill because I didn't want to emasculate him.

I didn't want him to feel weird.

I didn't want him to leave.

You know, I was so afraid that he would leave if I asked him.

So then that was another $30,000 in debt I got into.

Yeah.

To keep a man.

Never jeopardize your financial position to keep a man.

Good point.

Fuck that, right?

Absolutely.

Where can everybody find you?

So you can find me@duchessofdecorum.

It's my handle on TikTok and Instagram or pattyasside.com that's my website.

You'll find all my courses there, everything that I'm doing.

Thank you so much, Patty, for joining me.

I got to be honored.

Thank you for having me.

Awesome.