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Tom Hapgood Discusses Lost Letters, Design Education, and Life in the Ozarks
Episode 322 • 30th June 2025 • I Am Northwest Arkansas® • Randy Wilburn
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About the Show:

"I think everyone should write—even just for themselves."

       – Tom Hapgood

On this inspiring episode of I Am Northwest Arkansas®, host Randy Wilburn sits down with Tom Hapgood, longtime professor and cornerstone of the University of Arkansas's graphic design program. Together, they explore how formative experiences—especially those that cross cultures—ignite the creative spark and fundamentally shape who we become.

Tom's compelling journey begins in New England but truly takes flight in Cold War-era Germany, where he lived as a "third culture kid" and witnessed history unfolding firsthand. Those transformative years abroad didn't just shape his identity—they continue to fuel his academic work, drive his creative innovation, and recently inspired his authorship of "Lost Letters," a novel that memorializes the military brat experience during one of history's most pivotal eras.

Throughout their conversation, Tom reflects on how travel, storytelling, and design work together to broaden perspectives and strengthen communities. He opens up about the expanding creative opportunities in Northwest Arkansas, the evolution of the U of A's graphic design program, and both the joy and challenge of telling your own authentic story in an AI-driven world.

Whether you're an artist, entrepreneur, or someone simply curious about life in the Ozarks, this episode delivers wisdom for living both purposefully and creatively in our vibrant region.

Key Takeaways:

  • Third Culture Kids & Cultural Growth: Tom explains how growing up as an "army brat" in Germany fostered a unique perspective and a deep appreciation for both local and global cultures—lessons he still passes on to his students.
  • The Power of Story: Everyone has a book inside them, and writing—longhand or typed—offers a chance to process experience, build bridges, and leave lasting breadcrumbs for others navigating similar journeys.
  • Innovation & Design in NWA: The University of Arkansas’s graphic design program has grown into a top-tier, competitive platform, fueling opportunities for creative careers right here in Northwest Arkansas.
  • Navigating Change & Community: Tom and Randy discuss the region’s rapid growth, the blending of lifelong locals and transplants, and the evolving identity of NWA as a thriving, inclusive creative hub.
  • Embracing and Evaluating AI: AI’s role in creativity and education is complex—Tom offers candid reflections on its place in creative fields, underscoring the enduring value of hands-on skill and authentic storytelling.

All this and more on this episode of the I Am Northwest Arkansas® podcast.

Important Links and Mentions on the Show*

University of Arkansas Graphic Design Program

Local Bookstores Mentioned

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Transcripts

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Today on I am Northwest Arkansas, we're joined by Tom Hapgood,

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a cornerstone of the University of Arkansas's graphic design program

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and author of a compelling new book on military children's

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experiences during the Cold War. Tom brings over two

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decades of experience shaping the next generation of design

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professionals in our region while carrying a unique

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perspective formed during his years in Cold War Germany.

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His story weaves together international experience,

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academic leadership, and creative innovation, exemplifying

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the diverse talents that make Northwest Arkansas an

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increasingly vibrant creative hub. Stay tuned

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for the whole story.

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It's time for another episode of I am Northwest

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Arkansas, the podcast covering the intersection of

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business, culture, entrepreneurship, and life in

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general here in the Ozarks. Whether you are considering a

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move to this area or trying to learn more about the place you call

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home, we've got something special for you. Here's our

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host, Randy Wilburn. Hey, folks.

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Welcome back to another episode of I am Northwest Arkansas. I'm your host,

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Randy Wilburn. I'm excited to be with you as always. We've got a

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great episode for you. And, you know, I say a lot that I

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love serendipity and I love just connecting with people by accident

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or when somebody reaches out to me and says, hey, you should have so and

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so on your podcast or you should have so and so on your podcast. And

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by the way, I just want to put it out there that I've created a

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new link on my website. And if you go to the site, I am

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northwestarkansas.com, you can actually

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suggest a future guest for the podcast. Now doesn't mean I'm

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gonna have them on, but if you think highly about someone, it could

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be yourself, but technically, I'd love for you to to nominate somebody

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else that you think has an amazing story that needs to be told on this

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platform. I'd love to hear from you. Please visit

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www.iamnorthwestarkansas.com

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and then click on the about section and that will bring you down on the

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menu there and you can choose to recommend

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a guest. There's a little form you can fill out. You have to fill out

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the form completely. We will get that information. We'll acknowledge that you sent

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it, and then we'll we'll get in touch with you once we've talked to

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this individual and made a decision about having them on the podcast. But we

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wanna continue to grow what we've been doing here for the past as of the

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time of recording this over six years. You know, again, I created this

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podcast because it was the one I would have wanted to listen to when I

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first moved here, but it didn't exist. So I created it, and here we are

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now. Six years later, every Monday a brand new episode and so I'm

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excited to have Tom Hapgood on the podcast today to

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have a real conversation. One of the things that really excites me about this

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conversation is I actually spent some time in Germany growing

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up, not a lot of time. I think I've mentioned on this podcast before that

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a couple of my father's siblings were born in Germany. My father lived

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in Germany during World War II because my grandfather served over

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there and, you know, they we've used the expression army brat,

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but that's you know, it was the it was the kind of thing where he

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just had a unique experience. And I think because of my father's

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experience in Germany, it actually gave me a love for the

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country, for the people, for the language. So I studied German in high

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school. I minored in German in college, and so

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I spent a fair amount of time really taking in the

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German language, the German people, the German art. Goethe has

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been one of my favorite writers. You know, the list goes on and on, but

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suffice it to say, I was really excited about the potential of

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this conversation that we're about to have right now. And so I don't wanna hype

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it up too much, Tom, but welcome to the I am Northwest Arkansas podcast.

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I'm excited to be here. Thanks, Randy. To be in this room with Randy Wilburn.

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This is exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Man, so we're gonna talk about a lot.

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And, oh, by the way, Tom is a he's not even an

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aspiring author. He is an author. I am physically holding in my hand his

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book, Lost Letters, which I highly recommend that you

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guys get, but he'll talk more about it in a little bit. He actually gave

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me a signed copy, and he has the coolest signature that I've seen in a

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long time. So but I shouldn't be surprised coming from a

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design professional. So I totally I get that.

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You know, you you probably you major in the minors when it comes to

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even doing the little things well. You know, I created that signature

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just for this new author lifestyle. My old one was terrible, so I created a

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new grade. It looks like it might be faster, too. Yeah. It's just t h.

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Just a little bit. That's cool. Well, listen, Tom, why don't you just give us

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the and we always like to ask for people's superhero

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origin story, but why don't you give us just a little bit of background about

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yourself and how you ended up here in Northwest Arkansas?

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Okay. Great. So I'm from New England originally outside of Boston. The Hapgoods

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have been there since 1656 and we lived there. That's a long time. It's a

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long time. I'm Plymouth Rock. And then so my dad worked with the army. Okay.

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And so he was a lieutenant colonel and then worked as a

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civilian with the Army. And then we got transferred out to Fort Huachuca,

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Arizona in 1980. Fort we gotcha, they call

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it. And lived there for a few years and then ultimately we were transferred

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over to Germany. At the time, it was West Germany.

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So that's where kind of the origin of this book comes from is

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my time over there as a high schooler and kind of,

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you know, so I was basically living in a tiny little desert, dusty

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town in Arizona, plucked up, dropped into the center of

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Western Europe in the eighties and changed my life completely.

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Ninety nine Luftballoons. That's it. Naina. Naina. Yeah. That was

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a big song. Even for the German title. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So no. So

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it's I used to sing that song by heart. And I remember when the that

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you and I kinda both both were contemporaries in terms of when we were growing

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up in the eighties. MTV was all there was, and so I I can

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only imagine what it was like. But when I saw Naina's video, I was like,

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oh, this is amazing. Yeah. So I think I think it actually ends a nuclear

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war, doesn't it? It does. It really does. So, yeah, it was kind of prophetic,

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if you will. But, yeah, it's it's very interesting times. Really,

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really, I I love movies that relate back to

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that that cold war period between the dichotomy

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between East Germany and West Germany, just such a

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stark difference. And I remember going to Berlin and just looking

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across the Demilitarized zone and just like, oh my gosh.

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It looks it's almost like it's hard to describe but maybe you've seen

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movies or an image where one side is full color and the other side is

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black and white and that's kind of the presence in the way that

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it existed. It's hard to explain. Yeah and we got to travel

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to play sports. I played soccer and tennis and so we would get on a

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train in West Germany. We would travel through the night, through East

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Germany into West Berlin. Of course, you pass through Checkpoint Alpha, Checkpoint

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Bravo. And if you kept going, there'd be the famous Checkpoint Charlie. But we would

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play tennis, football, soccer, whatever there, get on the train,

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head back through the night, windows, you know, covered. Weren't allowed to

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look out at East Germany. It was, you know, the Soviet guards would come on

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the train with their AK-47s and the German Shepherds and I mean, it

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was a Super strange. Serious deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we had a

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blast. Yeah. Absolutely. I will for those if you are a

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James Bond fan, the movie Octopussy came out

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in 1983. And that movie features West

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Germany and East Germany prominently and

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I was a huge James Bond fan growing up and that was around the time

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when I went to Germany and so that was my first introduction and

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I just remember that very distinctly. So not only did I see it

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play out on on film but I also saw it in real life and I

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was like wow this is what you see is what you get so. For sure.

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We you know there's a movie called Gotcha with Goose from

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Top Gun. What was his name? Anthony Edwards. Yeah. Anyway, if you want to sort

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of get a sense, it's a comedy, but get a sense of the East West

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tension and situation in the age, that's a great one to watch.

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Absolutely. Absolutely. So, all right. So, you got

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there. You spent time there. What was for you?

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What was it like being, you know, experiencing, you know,

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beyond just the trips to into West Berlin? What was it

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like being, you know, in a foreign country as a young person?

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There's a term for it that people in that situation are called third

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culture kids and they're the people so, we're Americans and we're

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living in a foreign country and we sort of don't feel like

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complete member of either in a way. So, there's this third culture in the middle

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where the term comes from. And it's interesting because we're using

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dollars, we're driving American cars, we're gassing up in the same way,

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eating frozen burritos, going to the movies, bowling, all the but it's this

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sort of little island community in the center of

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these German cities. And there were hundreds of thousands of

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American troops and families living in Germany and other places

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Yeah. During the Cold War. And so it was interesting. And thankfully, my

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parents were very much interested in travel and getting

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to experience it. There were some people who would just hide in

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their apartments and wait out this experience of the

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time. They didn't embrace it. So They didn't. But every weekend, we'd go out and

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travel and just go to really interesting places. And that's the thing about, you know,

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what I really enjoyed about and, you know, and I did live in Germany when

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I was in college. I went I came I went over to study Gothic and

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Romanesque architecture, and I spent most of my time in Suddeutschland, our Southern

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Germany. So, like, Bavaria, kind of like Munich,

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Regensburg, Rothenburg, the Tauberg, Fort Seim,

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Tubingen, all those areas there. But I spent a lot of time

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there, and and the one thing I I do really remember and

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appreciate is that literally I could just go into the city center, get on the

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Bahnhof, get on the train, and go anywhere. You know, I remember taking

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the the Orient Express down to Paris. I mean, you could just do just about

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do anything. And the connectivity that people experience, I

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don't think you can really appreciate it until you're there and you realize how

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connected. You're like, Austria is, like, right there. And Belgium is

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right there, and France is right I mean, everything is right there. So I

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don't think you understand it. I mean, you've seen movies about war and about what

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happened during World War II, but you can't appreciate how closely connected

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all of these countries were. And, I just think that I find that

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fascinating. Oh, it was great. Weekends were amazing, you know. It's always

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something And you mentioned a minute ago the phrase brat, the military brat.

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And it's actually a phrase that we kind of embrace because it supposedly

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means British regiment attached to traveler, right? But it

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may be one of those backronyms where they just sort of assign something onto it.

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It's not a real acronym. And there's this move to change it from BRAT

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to MIL Kids. None of us are really excited about

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BRAT. We embrace. It doesn't have anything to do with our behavior because we were

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angels, I'm sure. Sure. Sure. It's just an acronym. Yeah.

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That's awesome. So that has how many years were you over there? Five.

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Eighty five to ninety. Wow. And that was a formative time of your

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life. Right. Yeah. What do you think you brought back with you

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from that time there? Oh, you know, so I teach here at the university

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and I tell my students to go travel, go out there,

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get out into the world, go live abroad because what you're going to do is

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you're going to see what's so great about those other countries and you're also going

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to see what's so great about this country. And so, I came back with just

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an appreciation of all the cultures I experienced over

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there. And then, of course, just being in this great country,

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too. So, it's a sort of a mix. Yeah, it is. I mean, and I

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always find it interesting and especially in the age and the time that

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we're in right now that a lot of times there's just

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a little bit of an unknown factor when you haven't traveled

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and so you only know what you hear as opposed to what you

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physically see or experience. Right. And for me, that's just

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always been the case, and that's why I'm I always tell people and I was

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amazed. I've I've experienced this in other places where I've gone. Like, I lived in

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Boston. As you said, you grew up in New England, and, you know, and you

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would appreciate this, but I met people from Southie that had never

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been to other parts of Boston. Like, literally never left

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Southie. And Southie is not that big. Yeah. But, you know and people know Southie

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from Good Will Hunting and how it's been shown in in The

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Departed and several other, you know, really good movies about, you know,

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living in in Boston. But, you know, I was always amazed at that, but I

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had experienced that in other places too. Like, when I had gone to when I

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lived in the Bay Area and I had met hung out and, you know, mentored

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some kids from, like, baby Hunters Point, which was like a really rough section of

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San Francisco. And these kids had never been across the bridge into Oakland. They had

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never been across the Golden Gate Bridge into Marin. And, I mean, literally, you could

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see the bridge from where they lived. And it's like you know, it's so

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it's almost like sometimes we don't, you know, we don't realize

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what's just beyond what's right in front of us. Right. And

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I think it's important for all of us to get out and experience life

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and especially experience other places, cultures, and people because

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then you get to really appreciate how big of a great big world

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we have. It's really one of the secrets, I think, of life is just getting

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out there meeting people and suddenly you get along. Yeah. Absolutely. It's interesting.

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And and you mentioned Fortime a minute ago. I I, lived right near

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Fortime, which is near Karlsruhe Uh-huh. Where I grew up for those five years. And,

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I attended a Monsters of Rock concert. This is my memory of Ford's

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time. Nobody knows the name Ford's time, but you just said that. I can't believe

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it. But I was at all day festival. Oh, man. Heavy Metal Days,

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1980s. I mean, everybody Deep Purple was the headliners,

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all these other bands. It was interesting. So it was half the crowd

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was American soldiers and the other half was Germans. And so

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that mix and everybody sort of pushing each other and jumping

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around. Those were different days. I can imagine. I can imagine. I can

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imagine. I live in the stable professor life in Fayetteville,

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Arkansas. It's a lot different. It's a lot different. It's almost like

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a different life. Maybe that's what I'm doing through the writing is just

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trying to rediscover the the past time travel.

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Sure. And I had a blast writing the book. So that was scratching the edge

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of of the old days. Yeah. So how did you

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find a love for design? I mean, where can you see the genesis

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of that from your time in Germany or was it something that kind of

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came about after that? I was exposed to so much. I mean, we used to

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go down into the downtown of the cities and don't tell

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anybody, but we used to steal posters off the wall of the

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Communist Party rallies and concerts and just all the

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and so I kept all these posters. You still have some of the posters. I

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do. I have them up in my office even. Yeah. Okay. And so, you know,

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there's that. And then just the museums and just the sort

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of the foods and the castles and the trains and the

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whole thing just sort of seeped into me and it's in there. Yeah. And

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so, in 2020, I went on a sabbatical and I guess a lot of us

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sort of did. But I went on a sabbatical and started writing my memoir.

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And as I'm writing my memoir of those years, I thought, you know, there's a

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novel in this. There's probably 20 novels in this. And so

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that kind of took me to where the book is now. And it

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was an amazing time that I just wanted to capture. And so I hope I

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did. I've been handing out the book to people saying, Yeah. I hope it's good.

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Oh, I know. Yeah. You know, it's so funny. And I was going to wait

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to ask you, but since you already brought that up, I figure I'll bring it

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up now Because I've always had I've always had this hypothesis that we

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all have a book in us. Yeah. Not all of us write it.

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Mhmm. And some of us go to our grave with that book still

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in us. Right. You know, and I'm not trying to be morbid here, but it

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is the reality that we all have some great stories to share Yeah.

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And to tell. And, you know, for those of you listening, you know, my

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encouragement is sometimes you have to get out of the boat and you have to

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just you just, you know, just have faith that what you have to share

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is worth somebody else having it and

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being impacted by it because you just never know. Yeah. And

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they say that if you're strong in either the storytelling or

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the writing, you want to be stronger in the storytelling because someone can help

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you with writing. Yeah. And you can be a really good writer and not a

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good storyteller. So everyone's got that story in them. And so with some

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assistance, you know, and I think everybody's I think 80% of

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people say they wanna write a book. Oh, yeah. It's high. It could be more.

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The number the number is high. So and just for I'm gonna just put this

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out here because I always like additional pressure because people ask people that know that

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I've been wanting to write a book or had plans to write a book always

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ask me when's that book coming out. Right. And I give everybody license to do

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that. It won't hurt my feelings. It's just like, yeah. I gotta get this book

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out. And I actually have a a writing coach and everything. So it's not like

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I haven't gone I've gone the route. I thought I was gonna be able to

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get it done during the pandemic. Just didn't happen. And

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sometimes life just gets in the way, but that's also an excuse

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too. Right? Because life is always gonna be in the way even when you're writing

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a book. And so it's like, I've read Stephen King's book On Writing. Yeah.

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It's called On Writing. It's a great book. Highly recommended. For anybody that

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wants to write, get that book. Because I'm not a huge Stephen King fan Right.

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As a writer as, you know, in his books. Right. I mean, Cary,

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a few others, but, I mean, this dude really captures

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the essence of what it means to be a writer. He does. And and I

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think one of the interesting things is he he has everybody needs to

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find their system for writing because some days you don't feel like it, some days

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you do. And so he would, apparently, put on one

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heavy metal song on loop for hours, that one

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song over and over. That would drive me crazy, personally. I've tried it

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with heavy metal and other things. I get in a few loops, get

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through a few planes of it and I take it. It's hard. But that's his

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system. Yeah. And from that, we get the sort of

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monsters and all the creatures. Well, you know, and it's funny because, like,

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all of it, I mean, JRR Tolkien, so many other writers. I

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mean, a lot of writers get help from other writers. Mhmm. Right?

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Tolkien was part of a group of CS Lewis and several others. And,

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you know, they actually egged each other on and encouraged each other when they

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were going through challenges because Tolkien talks famously about the challenges he

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had with Lord of the Rings. And, I mean, you know, we we read it

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now. We're like, oh, this is amazing. It's like you just don't know the

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blood, sweat, and tears behind the words on a page

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Mhmm. And what it takes to birth those things. Yeah. You know what I'm

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saying? And I can't even tell you how excited people have been. I've been writing

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the book for two or three years. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's asking me about it. Yeah.

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Everyone's sort of wondering when it's coming out. Right. And all kinds of it's funny

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because if I was doing something else, I almost feel like, you know, if I

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was making a film, people would be like, oh, that sounds weird. How are you

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gonna make But a book is totally accessible and possible

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for one person with a laptop. So but the the energy's been

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incredible around it. And so That's exciting. Had a little launch party the other night,

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had a lot of people there, and the energy was amazing. And, you know, it's

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been fun. It's been really and I could do this. And they say on your

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eighth published book, you can start to make a living at it. Right. Right.

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Seven more to go. Yeah. I'm still a professor over there. Love it.

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That's it. That's it. No. I love that. I mean, you know, and that was

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an you know, selfishly, that was another reason why I wanted to have you on

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the podcast is because I was hoping to maybe gin up some,

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encouragement Yeah. Just by hearing what you have to share. Right? I mean, I don't

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I don't think I've always said this no man or woman is an island unto

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themselves. And I think that, you know, we do have to kinda,

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you know, go off of each other and feed off of what each other

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is doing. And so I've had several friends that I mentioned I had mentioned

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about one to you before, but the same friend that I mentioned that went to

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BYU in Idaho wrote a book called Sell It Like a Mango because he's in

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sales. Okay. And it took him forever to get this book out, but he

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finally got it out. And it has been a game changer for him, not just

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professionally, but personally. You know, it was That was his hill that

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he had to overcome and it really changed everything for

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him. I've started a few a monograph

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on a topic, typography or something. But

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I really think novel writing is where I really find my passion.

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Again, I think I'm searching for time travel. My little process of

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writing is I get myself back into that time

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and that mindset. I put on the headphones,

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play the music of the era, and just it's at night usually when

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everybody's sort of settled and Yeah. And I stay up too late and I just

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but I just find myself writing really well with the music

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of the time, pretending I'm there, and it just kinda flows. There's times

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when it doesn't flow and but that I think is my maybe

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Stephen King method is still involves music and headphones and various

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things. But I wish, you know, they all say get up early and write and

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I'm just not an early morning person late at night. Yeah. Isaac

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Asimov, that was his thing, his claim to fame. And a lot of authors,

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you know and as Asimov said, you know, I would just get up and write.

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A lot of it would just be garbage, but I would just write. And he

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would write for I mean, from, like, seven to twelve every day, like, five

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hours. That's a lot of writing. So these are, like, people that I'm using air

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quotes not professionally write. But they said he said

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more of it was garbage than anything, but it it was the

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act of doing it every day that

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forced out the things that he really had to share. You know, I

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totally believe that. Joan Didion said, I don't know what I think about something until

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I write about it. Yeah. And through the writing is how I do my thinking,

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I guess. Yeah. I think everyone should write even just for themselves. What do

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you think or what are your concerns because I have some thoughts about

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how AI is going to impact our society and even

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take away that creative space that we

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hold for ideas and thoughts. Right? Because

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now all of a sudden, it's like, oh, well, AI can do this or

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AI can do that. I even catch myself sometimes where I'm like, I'm

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gonna write some things first, then I'll I'll refer to AI for

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other things. And and so how do you see that playing into

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this? Because you you wrote this book probably before Chatt GPT was

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really hitting it hard, but Well, the viewers can't see this, but a

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cloud has descended on the room right now because we're I don't

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I'm like a lot of people. I don't know. I distrust it. We're using it

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in we're using it in design and various things. But,

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you know, I have a very kind of maybe an unwelcome

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perspective on it where I've been reading. Stephen King says if you want to be

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a good writer, you've got to be constantly reading. I've been reading for my

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whole life. I like crosswords and wordplay and puns

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and typography, the fonts. I love everything about the written

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word and so I feel ownership of it and I feel like I've put in

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the time and now I'm able to write. And so I hear people writing a

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novel through very structured prompts into ChatGPT. And I

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just it sits wrong with me. I'm going to get hate for this, I know,

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but I don't love it. I don't understand that

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there's a process, a mental process, you know, for the writing for

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this, especially the research, the forming of the

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first draft, the editing, the kind of sentence

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structure, realizing how that's based on all of my

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experiences from the past, the words I'm using. I'm trying to

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be clever. I piece together phrases and sentences

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that I've experienced and come across in my life and places I've

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been. So there's so much that goes into what comes out of me onto the

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page. And for the AI lovers, I should say

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something like, yeah, there are times when you should use it and whatever.

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But I'm at that place where I'm not accepting

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it yet for creating in the

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sort of in the creative arts in certain ways. And again, I

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know there's a million ways people are using it for the research part

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or for the editing or whatever. But still, I would just, for me

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personally, stay with the traditional method to get through the whole process because it's

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about me learning and growing ultimately. And I don't know if

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the robots are going to teach us as much. Well, I mean, you know.

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Yeah. I hear you. I mean, even it's just like

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for writing, you know, there's something to be said for writing longhand because there is

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a direct connection between your hand and your brain Right. When you're

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writing. And so I've tried to spend some time doing that as opposed to

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just, you know, typing it up every morning. It's so easy just to open up

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your laptop and start typing, but it's a whole another thing when you pull

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out a journal and you really start writing and there is that connectivity that exists

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there. And so I I don't know. I I think people have to find

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what works for them. I mean, who am I to tell them how they should

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do it? But I just think that I guess, my situation and

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my encouragement is simply everybody's got a book in them. Need to figure out how

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to get it out of you. Yeah. Whatever it takes to tell that story. Because

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I mean, I'm as I even as I'm sitting here listening to you, it's like

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the book that I have in me, I know I actually have a few, but

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the one that I really wanna get out is one that I think

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needs to be shared with as many people as possible because I think

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too often, you know, we always feel like we're the only ones going

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through or going through. That's not really the case. You know,

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it's not. There's a lot of shared experience out there and a lot of

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people that have been down the roads that you're traveling down right now. And, you

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know, it's just unfortunately, not everybody writes or throws out

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breadcrumbs for how to get from point A to point B. And I

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want to be able to throw out some of those breadcrumbs that other people can

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appreciate and say, Oh, yeah, Randy went through this. I'm going through this

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now. And he overcame it, so I can't do it. Right. For sure. Yeah.

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Yeah. And I think of people I would encourage people to get a

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first draft, get some thoughts out onto paper. Yeah, absolutely. And

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if you're going to use AI in some way, I can't stop you.

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But there's something about that connection

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of brain to hand to pencil to paper or keyboard

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that it can't be replicated in any other way. And I sound like I'm a

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thousand years old. Yeah. No. No. It's fine. We're talking about the cold war and

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Yeah. You know? So I'm in a certain spot for sure. Yeah.

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Absolutely. Absolutely. I just think every generation is going to look at it

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differently. I think my kids I have kids that are in gen

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gen z, just at the edge of gen z and gen alpha. And so,

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yeah, I think their experiences are gonna be totally different. Yep. You know? These are

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digitally native human beings. Right. So, yeah, I can

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only imagine what it's gonna be like for them in twenty years, thirty years, having

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these same conversations you and I are having but in a different way. Right.

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Yeah. So I think that's interesting. Okay. So we we found out that you

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guys were here before the Mayflower or just about. You

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spent time in Germany. How did you end up in Northwest

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Arkansas? Right. Because I know that's a lot of people are wondering, well, how did

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how did all that happen? And I'd be curious to know, can you share how

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you got here? Northwest Arkansas is a dream.

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We think we won the lottery or something that's that amazing. We were living in

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Arizona. Yep. It was Thanksgiving. We just

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finished our graduate degrees. We were in Tucson, went to the University of Arizona. My

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wife and I. Okay. Yep. She received her degree as

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in Master of Music, Music Education and mine was a Master

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of Fine Arts in Visual Communication. We were sitting at an intersection,

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a couple of babies in the back and it was Thanksgiving and it

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was 100 and something degrees. And I grew up

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in New England. She had done some mission work in Tennessee and just loves green.

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And so, we're like, you know, we need to get out of here. So, we

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started putting out applications. I applied all over the country and

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I got an interview in Arkansas. Neither of us had ever been here. And so

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but it just the position sounded good. And so I traveled

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here and I knew this was the place. Really? I interviewed a couple of other

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places, didn't get those offers. So it you know, But I didn't feel good

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about those other places. When we got here, we knew this was the place for

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us. Really? And we were so it was the Department

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of Art back then. The department has sort of gone on to grow and

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become a school and We're now in that new building down south of campus, the

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big, beautiful white one. White and glass. I would say it's down

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there, right almost across from the neighborhood market. It is.

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I feel like I've gotten a new job in a new city moving into that

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building Yeah. And parking. It's been incredible. It is it is real

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it's really, really nice, and and it's it's a sight to behold for

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sure. So I encourage folks to go down there and take a look at it

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and and see it for yourself. But, alright, so you got here

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almost twenty years ago. 02/2005 in July. Okay. Wow. So it it has been

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twenty years. Yeah. Yeah. Almost. We're getting there. And so

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outside of just the verdant qualities of Northwest

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Arkansas, it's super green here. It's super inviting from that

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perspective. What was the first thing once you got here that you were like, wow,

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this is really nice? Oh, wow. Everything. I

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mean, there's something about this is I don't know how that sounds,

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but the complete visual

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change between each season really struck me because I kind of remember this from when

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I was a kid. Every season looks completely different here. They say four

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distinct seasons and it's true. There's something that sort

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of feeds the soul with the environment around you constantly changing and

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switching. I love that. We found good friends here. Yeah.

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The restaurants, I think, have there's a few that were

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around and I think they've gotten a lot better. And there's an

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interesting kind of diversity of all kinds

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from people who've been in Arkansas forever and then like us, a bunch

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of transplants from all over the world. Sure. And then, you know, you've got up

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the street, we've got the Rogers Bentonville thing happening with the

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malls and all that. There's construction cranes everywhere. And

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so, that kind of energy is fun. Then we trickle back down to our nice

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little Fayetteville in the hills and we love it. Yeah. You

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know, it's interesting because as I hear I do hear

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several locals, people that have been here for a long time. And, you know, I

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don't know how long is long, but long enough, I do hear some lamenting

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of, oh, I kinda wish things were back the way they used to be.

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And, you know, I think it's any place is going to

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grow. It's almost inevitable. We grow as human beings. I

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mean, we we're not the same people. You're not the same person you were twenty

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years ago. Mhmm. I'm definitely not the same person I was ten years ago when

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I moved here. I think we have to be comfortable with some of the uncomfortable

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aspects of growth. We sit in the university town, so on the

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one hand, where we're excited to be in a place where there is a lot

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of education, there is a lot of intellectual

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stimulation, you know, there's inevitable growth that comes

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with that as well. Mhmm. And I think that's one, you know, that's those are

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some of the challenges that's that we sometimes face but, you know, I I think,

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you know, you have to figure out how you can have your cake and eat

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it too. Right. And kind of deal with the good and the bad and and

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kinda work through it because it's not the end of the world. And I think

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I see a lot of potential here in Northwest

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Arkansas in this region that for what has

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been for the longest time and still is to a lot of people a

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flyover state. Mhmm. You know, a flyover place. It's like, oh, oh, you're in the

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heartland. Oh, that's cute. I'm going from New York to LA or LA to New

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York or LA to Boston or New York to Seattle. Right. And, you know, I'm

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not really interested, but I think that's kind of the mistake that a lot of

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people make because there's a lot happening here and it continues

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to create new opportunities for people to really take advantage of it.

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There's that mixed emotion we have when we make the

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top three, top five places in the country to live and we're so

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proud. But it's almost like we wish it was one of those Snapchat

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images that disappears after twenty four hours and not too many people find out about

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it. And I say that as being one of the people who dropped in here.

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But Of course. Yeah. The growth has been and I talked to people who lived

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here, again, from way back and the change is incredible. So

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and just from the past twenty years, we've seen this

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place just explode. It's been really interesting.

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Even with the pandemic, it's explode. I mean, I've seen, like, the I got here

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at the end of twenty fourteen and I'm like, this place is a lot different.

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I just wish I had bought more real estate when I first moved here. But

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that's that's a conversation for another day. Right. So listen, let's

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talk about, you know, the graphic design program at the U of

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A because I know that's something that you're very proud of and that you have

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you've kinda had been able to put your thumbprint on this program in some

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ways. I'd I'd love for you just to kinda for our listeners, just to give

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them a better understanding of what's actually happening in that beautiful white

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building over there? Because I think some cool things are happening over there. Oh,

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for sure. And graphic design has been at the university in some form

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for a long, long time. My predecessor, Marilyn

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Nelson, and her husband, Larry, were Larry Swartwood

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were the kind of people who really got it up and running in

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a form that was really good. And then when I came in 02/2005, we

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started to make some changes to it and it got bigger and more students. And

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at some point, I guess, in the mid two thousand what would it be? The

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mid teens? What do you call it? The '20? Yeah. The twenty tens. Between twenty

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tens. Yeah. In there, it started to really grow. The whole

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department started to grow. And we had

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that amazing infusion of funds from the Walton Family Charitable Support

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Foundation. I forget the exact date, maybe 2016, '20 '17,

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whenever that was. And a lot of people in our school had worked

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so hard on that, such as Jeannie Hulen and and people, Todd Shields, who's gone

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on to Arkansas State. But that amount of money that came in

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really funded the incredible growth. It's one of the largest

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donations of money ever given to an arts organization, I think, in a

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university, maybe in The United States ever, I've heard. So you hear these

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words a lot, transformational growth, but that really was. And so

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along with that growth, I think we hired something like 40 or

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50 faculty members, which is unheard of. So

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when Marilyn and Larry had stepped out to move on to other things for a

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semester, I was the only graphic design professor and now I think we have nine

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just in graphic design. And we've created a new Bachelor

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of Fine Arts in graphic design degree that launched in 2016 and then we have

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the Master of Design degree in '16. And

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then we have the Master of Design degree in communication design, which is two or

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three years old. So we're graduating students into

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a field that's been really welcoming and needy

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and full of positions. Students can leave with our degree and

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go out and make, you know, good money and advance up through the ranks

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of graphic design agencies. And so moving to the new building,

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though, has been just a new experience to go. The old building

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was nice. It had some historical kind of qualities to it. It's

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been refurbished recently and the new building just allows us to

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have a much bigger student body. I think we have 100 in graphic

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design, one hundred students and then 12 or 14 in the graduate degree. I

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imagine that recruiting for this program is not as hard as it maybe used to

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be? It's true. They're coming from further afield, the students. It's

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hard to get into now. We'll have 60 to 70

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or more applicants for 30 or 32 spots. So

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it's selective, it's hard to get a new parents actually like that it's

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selective because before we knew to take everybody, it was sort of a different

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feel. So it's hard to get into, it's a rigorous you know,

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three years once you're in after you go through the freshman year and

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the training that's received is up to date. You know,

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there is AI happening where it makes sense here and there from

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certain faculty who are embracing it, But we also do

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seventeenth century style letterpress and brand

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identity, web development, everything in between

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typography, which is one of the things I love. We have three classes in learning

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how to use type. So it prepares them really well for

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the graphic design field. User experience design is huge, even

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in this area with all the apps and the way people experience screens

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and what screens they need to go through to make

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decisions and buy things and sign up for things and all that. So it's a

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great program now. It's exciting. And the new building just makes it even

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better. Yeah. How do you find it here in this

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area in terms of as you prepare students for the industry

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as a whole? Are you finding that Northwest Arkansas has been

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a welcoming playground in terms of, creating

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new opportunities for these kids to once they've matriculated through the

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program? They don't have to leave Northwest Arkansas. They can work right here.

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Right. I have been here so long that a lot of the students who

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graduated years ago are now in positions of leadership at a lot of the firms

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and the agencies around here and or I've gotten to be friends with a lot

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of people. So, I have some really good connections. All the faculty do have good

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connections with the professional practice in the area. And they're more and more

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welcoming of our students. And the further our program

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matures, it's even better because we sort of send the students out

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for internships and they get jobs pretty well. And the

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pay is good. And it's one of those creative fields where there's

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an entire industry waiting for the graduates. So

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that's a nice feeling. One of my favorite things is getting students placed

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in firms and agencies around the country, especially here.

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Yeah. And I imagine I mean, at the time of recording this, we're just coming

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off of graduation weekend. So there's a lot of kids that are just putting their

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foot out there now with everything that's happening. So it's

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interesting to see how that continues to grow. You talked a little bit about AI,

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how that is impacting and how teachers are are you

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finding it that each teacher is kind of embracing AI in their

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own way as opposed to having just kind of something from on high

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come down and say, this is how we must use AI? Yeah. I mean, I

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think the thing is nobody on high at any level

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above us really knows what to say right now. Of course. Yeah. But there are

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people that are completely embracing it on the faculty and others much less

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so. I'm trying to figure it out myself.

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But, yeah. So the students will come out of the program

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having used AI in various parts of

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the design process where it makes sense and it's a sort of a

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catch 22. I don't want people to hear that we're just sort of

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churning out projects with AI, but I also don't want people to hear we're not

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using it at all. We're using it where it may make sense. And some of

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our faculty are really good with it and not yet. So I'm kind

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of waiting. Yeah. And is that kind of across the

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board kind of the same with all the other programs at the

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university? I think so. I mean, I hear people

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allowing papers to be written with AI as long as, you know, then

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for the second step, the person the student goes in and edits what

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AI had written or vice versa. And I don't know. I

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feel like every time I ask someone to explain the benefits of AI to me,

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I'm always kind of like, yeah, but you know? Yeah. So

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I'm showing my age and my you know, I've always been at the I love

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the forefront of technology, but this is the first one where I'm like, it's

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not just a tool if it's doing it for us. Exactly. Your comments

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on this are going to be, you know, complicated. I'm sure. I'm

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sure. And it's fine. And I think, you know, we're at a place right

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now where we're still figuring things out. We don't really

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know. Yeah. I do think though we could ignore it at our

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own peril. Right. You know, and I think that's the one reality. So when people

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ask me, what should I do? And I'm like, well, just become aware. I personally

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spend like a half hour each day studying AI, just understanding how it

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impacts what I do on a daily basis as a podcaster, as

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a speaker, as a consultant. There are a lot of

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things that now I can do as if I'm 10 people,

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but it's just because I have chat the access to chat g p t and

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the proper prompts to ask it to help me with certain things. So it's like,

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alright. Well, hey. If I can maximize that and then focus on

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the things that I bring the most value to, like, what we're doing right

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now, having this conversation makes life that much easier.

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Yeah. For sure. It really does. Yeah. I think what's happening is

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I'm seeing it intrude into places where I feel like I have

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spent a lot of time becoming something. Sure. And it's that feeling

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of people are just sort of dropping in now and writing novels and 20 whatever.

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And it's coming, you know, that what do they say? AI is not going to

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replace people, but it's going to replace people who don't use AI

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or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I should look that up.

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Yeah. Well, I mean, it's definitely it's coming whether we like it or not. Like

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I said, you just gotta I think it's better to be aware than to

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be unaware, if you will. Yep. So I won't say ignorant. I'll just

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say unaware. So I think that's the most important thing. So what are you most

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excited about in terms of the future, not just at the program, but here

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in Northwest Arkansas? I mean, you've got you're slowly getting some kids out of

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the house like I have and I'm working on now. I still got one

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to go. What what are you most excited about in this next phase of of

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your life here in Northwest Arkansas? Oh, that's a good question. We have

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one more at home and she'll head off to college

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somewhere. She's a soccer player, so we spend a lot of time on the sideline,

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which I love. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Played in Germany in the eighties. I

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loved it. Yeah. We spent some time on the White River this

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weekend, just a couple trip, and gonna do more of

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that Yeah. Talking about some other travel. Well and for people that are

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the uninitiated that are listening to this, maybe there's somebody that's coming about to come

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here to Northwest Arkansas. Please explain how easy it is just to get in your

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car and within less than a ninety minute drive, sometimes less than a sixty

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minute drive, you can be, you know, out in Swiss Family

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Robinson territory where you're really experiencing

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nature as it should be. Oh, what do they call it? The sportsman's

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paradise in Arkansas. Yes, exactly. You've got the buffalo

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not too far away, you've got lakes around us. We went two hours over to

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Norfolk. I think it was about two hours. It looks like a different I

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mean, it could be Switzerland combined with Guatemala. I mean,

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this river and these hills and the mist over the mountains

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and just the hills. Amazing. Just beauty just right

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there. Yeah. It's not far away. It's really not that far away. I mean, and

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you can appreciate it right here. I mean, when you look out, there's, there's a

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brand new overlook up, by Mount Sequoia where the cross is.

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For those of you that are un uninitiated, there's a brand new veranda

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and deck and everything where you can look out and just, I mean, just

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taking in the Ozarks, it just there's something about it, you know. And it's one

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of the reasons why I use the image of The Ozarks in the backdrop of

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my website because it's just there's just something about it. And I love when I

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drive south on 49 towards Fort Smith before you

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get to the Bobby Hopper Tunnel and you just just have these rolling

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gradually rolling hills and there's just That's beautiful. It it really is something nice to

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see. When you flip around and come north and there's that one rise you

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come over and there's the little village of Fayetteville up on the hills there with

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that. It's very cool. It's amazing. It is. Yeah. I love all of Northwest

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Arkansas, but I don't feel like any of the other towns of Northwest Arkansas have

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that sort of experience of coming into them. Yeah. Well, and and they

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don't. And also too, because I because people are always constantly calling

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whenever they hear about a tornado hitting Arkansas, I'm just like, yeah. I mean, we

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do get tornadoes here. Obviously, Rogers got it. Rogers is a lot flatter

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than Fayetteville. Yeah. Fayetteville, One of the benefits of Fayetteville is the

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is the topography. Yeah. And it makes a huge difference, that

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topography. It's one of the reasons why the one tornado that we have had in

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this area came scraped right across North Fayetteville right

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into Springdale because Springdale is a lot flatter than Fayetteville.

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Fayetteville, when you look at it, you're like, there are a lot of hills. I

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could only imagine what it was like in eighteen hundreds Right. When people came here

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from the East and they were like, wow. Okay. Yeah. This is really nice,

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but, you know, it's just you have a lot of hills and and I don't

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think people realize how hilly this area is until, like, either you

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ride your bike or you go on the trail or you experience it that way.

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You're just like, oh, yeah. This is definitely different. So Is it true that

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30 some people a day are moving to Northwest Arkansas? This

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is the number. 36 net new people a day. And that was a number that

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I think several of the chambers have been using as well as the Northwest

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Arkansas Council. So there's a lot of people moving. I mean, it's it's just

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it's gonna continue to happen. And it's hard to explain

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why outside of, you know, having one of the largest companies in the world be

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based here, they doubled down with their brand new beautiful

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campus, which is open, I might add, unlike, you know,

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Apple or some of these other you can't you can't walk through Apple or Google's

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campus without being stopped. Yeah. And you you can easily ride your

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bike through Walmart's campus. Yeah. You can stop and

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eat if you want now. It's it's just I took a group of students up

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there a couple weeks ago to the new campus. Yeah. Because they have a large

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design team and they're welcoming of our graduates. They do. We have a good

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relationship with them. But, yeah, they were competing with the bigger or the

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other tech companies. Sure. The campus is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And that's

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also one of the reasons why they wanted more people to kinda come back to

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the fold, if you will, because it's like, well, we're gonna build this. We want

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people to appreciate it. So yeah. So there's something to be said for that.

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But, man, this has been a this has been a really great conversation. I I

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appreciate you kinda sharing your story, and I'm glad we got

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connected because I think, again, anytime I can get

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to talk to an author, that's always cool for me because it's encouraging. So you've

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encouraged me to get back out there, and I think I may write a little

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bit today. Yeah. But more than that, I'm gonna get this I'm gonna open this

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book because I love reading a good book. And as I shared with you, I'm

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reading a few other books right now, but I'm gonna have to dive into

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lost letters and and Please do. Really take a look at this. Yeah.

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And and I certainly wanna encourage folks if they wanna learn

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more about the graphic design program at the U of A, maybe they have a

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kid that's thinking about going that route that, you know, sometimes, you know,

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the whole idea or concept of a starving artist isn't always the

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case. Right. And I think there are tremendous opportunities for great graphic

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designers, especially right now more than ever before. Yeah. For sure. Right.

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Yeah. So And we have the other areas of the school too. And there are,

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in fact, a lot of careers out there for any of the graduates of the

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school of art. Yeah. For sure. And it can lead to a lot of things.

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I mean, I tell people, you know, if you saw the Steve Jobs story, you

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recognized his love and passion for font making

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and typography. And that actually played

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into his sensibility around design in

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general, which has given us, you know, some of the I

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mean, a lot of the the stuff that Apple puts out even to this day.

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I mean, yes, I know Johnny Ive has played a major role in that, but

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the stuff just looks good. Even the packaging looks good. You know what I'm saying?

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It's rare that you you get something like I still have boxes. I still have

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iPhone boxes, I'm ashamed to say, on some of my bookcases where I'm like, I

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don't wanna throw this out. It looks so pretty. It's like it's just but a

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lot of that, I mean, design is is just, you know, there's something

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to be said for, you know, how that impacts society

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and something as simple as typography played a major

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role in how Steve Jobs looked at design. That and the other

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thing, I mean, just the little stuff. Right? Like, I I think I told somebody

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the other day or maybe I was talking on a podcast where if you open

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up a MacBook and look inside of it, it's beautiful

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inside, which is crazy. Right? Right. And that's kind of one of those stories where

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Steve Jobs had told the story and he told it to all Isaacson and but

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it was a famous story that people had heard before where he was painting

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a fence at his home, and his father was like, you

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know, you have to paint the fence on the inside just as well as you

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paint it on the outside. And at first, he was like, oh, nobody's gonna see

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it. He said it doesn't matter. Yeah. And that that left an

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indelible impression upon him where he never cut corners when

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it came to creating something and designing it and designing the

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whole thing, not just the thing that's visible to the naked

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eye. He had an interesting connection with the Cherokee nation too. Cherokee

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was one of the only languages available on the Apple

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devices. Okay. And I think I've heard that the Cherokee Nation flew

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their flag at half mast when he passed away. So that's an

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interesting kind of vector to go down and

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look into. Interesting. Interesting. Man, there's so much there.

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So, I mean, I think, you know, it it is, there's a lot to be

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learned from people that have gone out and kind of forged their own

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path. Right. Sometimes you just have to look for those breadcrumbs Yep. Yep.

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To get an idea. So but you're leaving your own breadcrumbs with this book,

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less letters. Well, I hope you enjoy it. I spent a few years on it

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and Yeah. I'm gonna put a link to it. It's available on Amazon.

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Everywhere you buy books. Everywhere you buy books. Okay. So Pearl's and some

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of these other book Oh, well, so locally, I am talking to them to get

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it everywhere. Okay. Okay. Good. I'd like to do a reading there too. Shout out

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to Pearl's. Stay tuned to do that. Two Friends Bookstore up in Bentonville.

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Yeah. Under Brush and Rogers. Yeah. So yeah. There's a few I really

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like supporting local independent booksellers because I think it's just

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it's one of the last few things that we have. Can you imagine not being

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able that serendipity of walking down the stacks Cracking the

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spine of a book for the first time, you know. It's like there's nothing like

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it. The smell of it, the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I appreciate this

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gift. This is definitely a good gift and I will be reporting back

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on my experiences with that. So thank you so much. Yeah. Well, thank you for

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having me on. I've enjoyed this conversation. For sure. If anybody wants to reach

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out to you, what's the best way for them to connect with you, Tom? If

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you just search me up on any of the search engines. LinkedIn too, right?

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LinkedIn's a yeah. I'm one of the people that uses LinkedIn. Yeah.

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There you go. I will make sure I put a link to you, your profile

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on LinkedIn, so that, that people have that and can connect with you. And we'll

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put a link to the graphic design program at the U of A. I spend

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a lot of time on my Instagram, you know, sort of with the old

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eighties. But if you wanna see some good old eighties mullet pictures and Okay.

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What's what's what are you on Instagram at as Tom Hap Tinder? I think it's

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Tom Hap eighty eight. Eighty eight. Okay. We'll put all that. Well, you're gonna fill

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out a form when you're when we're done with this. So Good. I'll make sure

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all that gets included in the show notes. And anybody that has any questions or

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wants to reach out to you or even wants to buy your book, we certainly

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would encourage them to do that. But Tom Hapgood, thank you for joining us today

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on the I Am Northwest Arkansas Podcast. We really appreciate it. I had a blast.

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Thank you. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, there you have it folks. Another episode

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of the I Am Northwest Arkansas Podcast. To learn more about us,

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please visit our website at IAmNorthwestArkansas.com.

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