Host Ryan Nauman speaks with Kara Pagliuca, board member of Women in ETFs and senior director of global strategic partnerships at S&P Dow Jones Indices, about the evolving demographics of the investment management and ETF industry. Pagliuca shares her career path, WE’s mission to connect, support, and inspire professionals across the ETF ecosystem, and how the organization promotes mentorship, leadership, speaking opportunities, and broader representation in media and conference panels. They discuss progress in women reaching executive roles, the importance of intentional hiring and promotion, and how confidence, early education, visible role models, and sponsors can help women enter and advance in a male-dominated field.

Learn more about Zephyr here.

Learn more about Women in ETFs (WE) here.

00:00 Podcast Welcome

00:53 Live From Exchange

01:37 Meet Kara Pagliuca

03:12 Women In ETFs Mission

04:18 A Personal Discrimination Story

05:36 Why ETFs Focus

07:21 Progress For Women Leaders

09:17 Building Confidence Early

12:23 Wealth Transfer And Advisors

14:04 What Drives Change

15:09 More Work To Do

17:01 Advice For Career Growth

20:40 Closing And Resources

Connect with Ryan Nauman:

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Welcome to the Adjusted for Risk podcast.

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Join myself, Brian Nauman, as I talk

markets, investments, economics- Let's get

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started ... and life, as I help prepare

you for the upcoming week in markets.

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I work for Zephyr, and all opinions

expressed by myself and my podcast guests

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are solely of their own opinions, and

do not reflect the opinion of Zephyr

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or, in form of, its parent company.

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This podcast is for informational

purposes only, and should not be

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relied on for investment decisions.

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Welcome, everyone, to Zephyr's

Adjusted for Risk podcast.

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We are recording on location at the

Fantastic Exchange ETF conference.

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We've had a lot of great

conversations so far.

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This next one is also gonna be

a really great conversation.

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It's gonna be a lot of fun one that

I'm look- really looking forward to.

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The investment management space has

been very male-dominated over the

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years, particularly when I started.

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I'm gonna age myself.

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I- but there's one trend in all my

podcasts, is I age myself a lot.

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You know, 20, 20 years ago when

I started in this industry.

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Uh, that has changed some,

though, recently, and I think

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more change needs to be done.

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Well, I have on the perfect guest

to discuss the evolving demographics

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of the industry and what is ahead.

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But first, this episode is sponsored

by the award-winning Zephyr, which

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helps investment professionals

make more informed investment

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decisions on behalf of their clients.

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I'd like to give a very warm

welcome to Kara Pagliuca.

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Kara, you are the board member

of Women in ETFs, or WE.

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Mm-hmm.

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And you're also senior director global

strategic partnership at S&P Global.

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You're busy.

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Yes, I am busy.

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I'm a- You're busy ... I'm a busy woman.

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Well, thank you so much

for coming on the podcast.

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Thank you for having me.

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It's- I appreciate

it ... an honor to have you.

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I'm really excited

about this conversation.

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Can you please tell us a little bit

more about yourself and Women in ETFs?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Um, so I'm, as, uh, you said,

a global strategic account

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manager at S&P Dow Jones Indices.

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I, um, have been in the

industry about 24 years.

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Uh, so I spent a bulk of my

career at State Street, um, in

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account management roles there as

part of the SPDR ETF franchise.

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Um, I'm a mother of three girls.

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Uh, and WE has been a, a large part of

my life since the beginning of my career.

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Um, I spent some time in, as the

Boston chapter head, uh, originally,

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and then I moved on to head of

our, uh, leadership events team.

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I was co-president of Women in

ETFs, um, and now I've moved on

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to a member of the board and, um,

chair of our nom gov committee.

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Fantastic.

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I love that you're j- you're, s-

this story through WE- Advancing

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through it- Yes ... it's great.

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I love those stories of people who,

you know, they might be in a executive

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role, but they've advanced and- Oh, yeah

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they've been promoted throughout the firm.

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Yes.

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I love it.

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I love it.

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It's fantastic.

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So can you tell us a

little bit more about WE?

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What's WE's mission?

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Yeah.

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Um, you know, the, the mission of WE is

really to connect, support, and inspire

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professionals across the ETF ecosystem.

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Um, so we have members in, you know,

different roles, um, you know, different

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career stages, um, who range, you know,

from areas across the, across the globe.

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Um, we really wanna build meaningful

relationships with professionals

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throughout the industry.

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And, you know, we wanna help

those individuals find their

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voice in the industry, um, through

mentorship, speaking opportunities,

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um, leadership opportunities

within the organization of WE.

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Um, and in addition to that, um, I think

part of WE's mission also is really to

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elevate perspectives, um, whether that

be through podcasts like this one, um,

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panels at conferences like, uh, like we

have at the Exchange, um, or just through

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media, um, engagements that we have.

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Um, the ETF conversation is really

shaped by, um, you know, the, those

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who are in the ecosystem, and Women in

ETFs is a, has been a big part of that.

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I love it.

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I think it's fantastic.

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And tell a little personal story here.

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I was actually telling it last night

to some, uh, folks at Exchange.

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So my mom in South Dakota, years

ago in the '60s, you know, I think

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she, she was working with her best

friend on a road construction crew.

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She was a flag lady with her best

friend, and I think she enjoyed

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it because she could smoke her

pipe- ... and stuff like that, and talk

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to people as she's handing the flags.

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Well, sh- they ended up getting fired

from the, uh, the construction crew,

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and my mom and her best friend, and

this is the '60s, early '70s, took the

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crew to court for sexual discrimination.

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Oh.

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They won.

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It was, like, the first

sexual discrimination case

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that, um, the females won.

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She won, and she often joked, she's

still got the, like, newspaper clippings.

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She often jokes that they won enough

money to buy a pack of cigarettes

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and go- ... and drink for a night.

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Um- Still ... but, but it's,

uh, just how much it's changed.

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Absolutely.

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And, uh- Yes, definitely.

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That's an amazing story.

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Yeah.

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She likes it.

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She's still has got all the fucking

pictures of her smoking the pipe-

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Yeah ... and stuff like that.

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'60s in South Dakota.

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Yeah, right.

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Um, so I think that's fantastic.

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What, why ETFs, though?

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Like, why, you know, Women in ETFs,

obviously, there's a focus on ETF, but

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why not, like, mutual funds or a broader,

like, just wealth management space?

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Yeah.

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So when the, when Women in ETFs was, um,

you know, first put together, it was, I

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believe it was 12 or 13 years ago at this

actual conference- Um, where our founders

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met and said that, you know, there

was a real need for a supportive group

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for females, um, in the ETF industry.

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And at that point in time, the ETF

industry was really in its infancy.

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And so it was kind of, you know, I,

I liken it to, like, crypto of today,

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or, um, you know, there are a lot

of women's groups, women in crypto.

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Um, so at the time, ETFs was kind

of this new and shiny- ... um,

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thing within, within the industry.

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And, um, there was a growing

ecosystem within certain firms.

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And so there were several, you know, kind

of pioneers within a- the ETF industry

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who are females who got together and said,

"You know, we're lacking representation

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in certain areas, and we really

need, um, you know, to form a group."

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And they did that, and it has grown

tremendously over the last 12 years.

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Yeah, that's fantastic.

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I love it.

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And we'll talk more about it

later, but there's a lot of...

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You know, I do research.

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That's my day job is research.

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And as a one-person r- kind of

research, uh, group, I leverage a lot

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of other people, thought leaders, and

a lot of them are, uh, females now.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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And, and just they're doing some really

great things, and that's kind of my go-to.

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Yes.

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There's a lot of go-to that

are females that are doing

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some great research and- Yeah.

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Absolutely ... thought leadership

in the investment space.

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So March is Women's History Month.

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March 8th, I think, is

International Women's- Yes.

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You are correct.

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So what strides have women

made in this industry over

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the years, you know, since WE?

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And even before then, what are

some strides they've made to get,

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like, more C-level positions-

Mm-hmm ... executive-level positions?

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Yeah, I mean, I, I think there's been

a gradual shift towards inclusivity i-

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in this, um, industry in particular.

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Um, there are more opportu- at

Jones Indices is Kathy Clay, and

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CEO of S&P Global is Martina Chung.

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Um, that, you know, 20 years

ago probably would've been,

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you know, few and far between.

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Um, but it's becoming more and

more, um, a regular occurrence.

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Um, I think women are, you know,

education, um, professional

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designations, the CFA, um, you know.

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And quite frankly, just women, like,

ensuring that we're in the conversation,

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um, has been really important as well.

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Um, you know, I, I think that as you go

to management space, you know, uh, kind of

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the pyramid closes up in terms of females.

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I think sometimes, you know,

entering the workforce with kids,

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that can be a difficult time for...

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to elevate women and realize that there

needs to be a diversity in conversation.

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There needs to be a diversity in thought.

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Um, there needs to be a

diversity in leadership.

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And as a result, you know, there are

obviously those studies out there that,

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you know, female, uh, led companies

perform well, um, or just as- Well,

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if not better than those run by males.

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Um, you know, I think there is a big piece

to diverse thought that, uh, that we are

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starting to recognize, and as a result,

women are benefiting from that finally.

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Yeah, I think that's fantastic.

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Uh, I've had a lot of

conversations with, uh...

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Last year I did a special, uh,

series on women in investing- Mm-hmm

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women in SMAs.

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And a lot of conversations

I have is about confidence.

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Mm.

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Investing.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right?

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Because usually their spouse or their

husband does a lot of the investing, or

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they're the one sitting at the table.

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Confidence.

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How do you think overcome that

confidence issue and become more

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confident that they can be executives?

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Yeah.

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If they wanna be part of the investment

management industry, they can.

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Yeah, I think it's, it definitely

starts at the youngest stages.

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Um, like I think, um, recently, a good

example, my oldest daughter, she's

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13, and at her middle school there's,

like, a women in stocks, um, not women

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stocks, there's a stock picking club.

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Yeah.

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And, uh, they had a picture of

it on the weekly newsletter.

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And it, it struck me because there was

only one girl out of about 14 boys.

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And that's even, like, at the

youngest, you know, levels.

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Um, I think it's really important

that, you know, women, um, succeed

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in, in math and science, um, and feel

the ability to get confidence there.

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Um, I think that it's important

that we support each other.

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Um, and then also really that we kind

of have the opportunity now, I think

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back to earlier on in my career, um,

seeing that there were several executives

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that, that were female, that were

senior managing directors at my firm.

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They had families, they were successful,

and I, I remember thinking to myself

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like, "Wow, they can do that."

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Like, I'm seeing something that, you know,

possibly that could be me at some point.

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Um, so to really have those individuals

that you can aspire to and those female

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leaders is really, really important.

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Um, I do think that, you know,

confidence is a big, um, a, a big deal

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because without confidence, you really,

your, your goals don't get achieved.

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And so I do think that, again, groups

like Women in ETFs, whether you have

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mentorship opportunities, that's a, a

big area for us to build confidence,

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um, with younger, more junior p- people.

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Uh, a- and that's been an area where I

think back and, and that was something

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that for me, uh, proved to be a,

a big differentiator in my career,

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is having those mentors or those

sponsors, um, who've really kept my

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name in the conversation for, like,

leadership positions or new roles.

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Um, without them, you know, I

think my career would've been

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in a different trajectory.

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Yeah.

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I love that.

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And, and now you're, uh, a, kind

of paying back to being a mentor-

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Yes ... for- Yes ... for younger,

uh, women getting in the industry.

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And going back to your daughter,

like, when I was younger- My dad, he,

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he was a dental technician- Mm-hmm

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so, but he liked to, you know, invest, and

he would ta- he would talk to me about it,

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but n- not necessarily my sisters, right?

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Right.

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I had three sisters.

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And granted, my sisters,

they didn't really care.

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Right.

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They didn't want to participate-

Right ... in anything I was doing.

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But they, you know ... And I think

that kind of is a problem, too.

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Yes, yes.

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Like, it's the father who's sitting

at the table with the financial

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advisor- Right ... and then they're

just passing that on to their sons.

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Yes.

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So- There's a lot of research now even,

you know, for financial advisors out

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there that they need to include, you

know, both the, the wife and the husband

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in conversations because oftentimes,

you know, I think I saw that there's

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a, a s- statistic I wrote down.

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And by 2030, women in the US are predicted

to own 30 trillion or two-thirds of

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personal wealth, and that's a huge

number and a huge client base, and you

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don't want to miss out on those, the,

that other, you know, those women.

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Um, a- and to be honest, I think

there's, a portion of it is education.

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Um, it can be intimidating sometimes

if you're not maybe in the field or if

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you don't have a background, but it is

so, so important, um, you know, and I

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say this to my daughters, uh, just to

ensure that you're educated financially.

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Um, it's important to

your own self-esteem.

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It's important to your ability to

execute your own goals in life.

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Um, I can't emphasize that enough,

so it is very, very important.

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I, I completely agree,

and you're exactly right.

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It, the, I've read statistics, too,

with this great wealth transfer.

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Everyone talks about the money

going to younger generations.

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I don't think that's

the biggest transition.

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To me, it's women owning, being

the primary owner of asset.

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And financial advisors need to start

incorporating them in those talks

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because they invest differently than men.

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Sure.

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And you better start understanding,

like, they're gonna, they invest

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more with their morals, values- Yes

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goals- Yes ... goal-oriented.

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Us men, we just want returns.

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Right.

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Give us 20% return- Right ... we're happy.

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It's gonna be completely different.

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You better start- Yes ... working

on that shift now.

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Yes.

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What have been the primary drivers?

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There have been more women

in executive position, like

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you said with your firm S&P.

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Yep.

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Like, you got two co-female CEOs.

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Yes.

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What have been the primary drivers?

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Do you think it's just

awareness or- Um- ... education?

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You know, I think it's, it's awareness.

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I think it's diversity

initiatives are important.

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Um, you know, women, you know,

being part of the conversation.

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Um, I think it's important for firms

to be intentional about hiring, um,

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and intentional about promoting.

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Uh, I do think that even, you know, as

we look at, at panels at conferences,

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it's im- important to be intentional

about picking, uh, females on a panel.

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Um, I do think that it's, it has, like

I said, um, become much better than it

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was But I, we have a long way to go.

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But I do feel like people have to, again,

be intentional about adding women to the

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conversation, uh, and ensuring that- Yeah

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um, our voices are heard because

of the diversity of thought

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and the value that is in that.

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Mm-hmm.

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So I'm glad you said that, that more

work needs to be done, and you kinda

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mentioned it, but what, what work is it?

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You know, the what?

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Like, what can we do better to increase

diversity and diversity of thinking?

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Yeah, I think, you know, again, if

you look at, um, mentorship, um, if

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you look at even, you know, events

or in the media, um, making sure that

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women are well-represented on panels.

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Um, you know, it's interesting 'cause

several years back, women in ETFs

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in particular was very vocal about

having females on panels here at,

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at this conference in particular.

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And, um, there was an effort made with

the leaders of the conference to ensure

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that either there was a female on every

panel, um, or there's certain percentage

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of panels were, were female occupied.

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Um, so that's like a very

intentional, um, process to do that.

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But as a result, you know, you

look at a panel and it's not

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just, you know, four white males.

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There is diversity.

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Um, and, you know, that could be, you

know, not just diversity of gender,

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but, but all types of diversity.

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So I do think that, um, that needs to

happen in order for, for it to continue.

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I agree.

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I think it starts there, right?

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Just conferences.

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A- Because I...

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Aging myself here again.

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20 years ago, going to a

conference, it was 99% men.

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Right.

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Yes.

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And, and then even the

panels were- Yes ... were.

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So that's a great step, you know.

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And even with the podcast, you know,

Gregory does a fantastic job of, you

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know, bringing on female speakers,

and they've done a really good job.

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But again, it's still mostly

males- Mm-hmm ... on the podcast.

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So, uh, you know, just having

more diversity there- Mm-hmm

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helps.

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And firms like Gregory are

doing a great job there.

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Yes.

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So with that, do you have any tips

for younger generation of, you know...

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And I shouldn't even say younger,

just women, whether they're younger

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or maybe they're mid-career-

Yeah ... that, "You know what?

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Investing really is intriguing to me.

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It's something I like."

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Any tips to them about how to

either get into the industry

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or advance in the industry?

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Yeah.

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I, I, I do think, you know, it comes

back to that, um, that term confidence.

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Um, I think, you know, it

can be intimidating to enter

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male-dominated industries.

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Uh, I think to have the confidence

or at least, you know, that, um,

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ability to say, "I can do this.

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Um, I, you know, have the skill set.

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I have..."

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And, and a lot of that- You know,

it's preparation, it's education,

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it's certifications, it's, you

know, really putting in the time.

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Um, but I do feel like there is such

value in the female perspective, and to

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lose women because they're unsure of, you

know, participating in a male-dominated

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industry is, would be a complete shame.

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Uh, we've seen, you know...

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I, I, I just think that I look back at

our younger, you know, we generation,

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and sometimes it's interesting 'cause

they'll say, you know, "It's...

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I never really thought, you know, what

it was like to have just a few, um,

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people, f- just a few women in a room."

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And for our pioneers or our

older leaders of, of Women in

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ETFs, that was the regular.

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Um, so I, I do think that in order to

join the industry and be successful,

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you have to have some confidence.

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And, and don't be afraid to, um,

you know, keep trying things and,

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and, and don't say, you know,

don't stop when someone says no, I

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guess, is probably my best advice.

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Um, and don't say no to yourself, right?

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Because oftentimes, and some-

someone once said that to me,

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because women sometimes we t- kind

of like talk ourselves out of it.

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Like, "Oh, I, I don't know.

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I, I don't know if I'm good enough.

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I'm not sure."

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Um, but, but the world will

say n- no to you enough.

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Yeah.

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Um, so don't do it to yourself first.

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And, and have the confidence to put

yourself forth for those positions, um,

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put yourself forth for the conversation

or, you know, go up to those individuals

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who are senior leaders and take

some time with them and introduce

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yourself and get to know them so that

they know you and bring you into the

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conversation, um, throughout your career.

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That is awesome.

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I love that adv- it, just about no.

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Yeah.

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You hear it.

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You're gonna hear it.

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Mm-hmm.

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I hear it a lot too.

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It's like in the industry

and just everything.

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And, um, the, I heard somebody say, men,

when they apply for a job or looking

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for a job role, if they've got one,

meet one of the job descriptions or

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one of the r- pieces of the role, they

apply and think they're the perfect fit.

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Ver- whereas women, if they don't meet

one of the- Right ... job descriptions,

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they say they're not fit for it.

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Right.

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So it's just getting over that.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And I think, you know, uh, even

organizations like Women in ETFs, like

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that's how I'm in my role now, um,

through the networking and through, um,

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a c- a colleague of mine or a co- Mm-hmm

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um, person on Women in ETF said,

"This is an opportunity that

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I think you'd be great for."

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And she was kind of able to talk

me through this, and without that,

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I, I don't know if I would've

put myself up for the role.

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So it's a very good point

about job qualifications.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Thanks.

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Great conversation.

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Very important conversation.

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Probably should have it more often.

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Yes.

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Um, so- Bring me more clients

Guest speakers, uh, regarding it.

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It's been fantastic, such an honor-

Thank you very much for having me on.

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I appreciate it.

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Where can we get more

information about WE?

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So womeninETFs.com

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is our website.

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Uh, it will, you know, provide

information on where our chapters are

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located and what you can do, um, to

join the organization a- and take part.

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It's a really important- Yeah ... um,

organization, and, um, we'd

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love to have additional members.

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Fantastic.

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Thank you so much.

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Thank you.

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And thank you everyone for

listening to this episode of

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Zephyr's Adjusted for Risk podcast.

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You can watch all of our other episodes

on the Zephyr YouTube channel, Spotify.

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Please be sure to like, subscribe,

and give us a follow on LinkedIn.

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Thank you very much, and have

a great rest of your week.

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Let's get started