Shownotes
In this episode, Dr. Jane Levesque, a naturopathic doctor and natural fertility expert, delves into the topic of parasites with Dr. Nick Ellenson, a chiropractic doctor and lead educator at Cellcore. They discuss the persistence and consistency required for effective parasite cleansing, the misconceptions surrounding parasites, and their impact on chronic illnesses and fertility. Dr. Ellenson shares insights from various studies, highlighting how parasites can affect hormone levels and overall health. The conversation also touches on the importance of pre-pregnancy preparation and the cautious approach needed for parasite cleansing during pregnancy and nursing. Tune in for practical tips and expert advice on managing parasites and optimizing health naturally.
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Key Takeways
00:03:36 Microbiome and Parasites
00:09:56 Parasites Everywhere
00:13:44 Parasites in the Brain and Lyme Disease
00:23:01 Full Moon and Parasite Activity
00:32:30 General Parasite Cleansing
00:45:10 Impact of Parasites on Hormone Levels
01:04:05 Nursing and Parasite Cleansing During Pregnancy and Postpartum
Memorable Quotes
"I’ve found persistence and consistency of parasite cleansing to be the most impactful things when it comes to clearing parasites. And again, it can take a lot longer than you would think to clear them."
"Parasites are everywhere. We have this perception that the US is this clean environment that there's no parasites magically here. But that's not the case."
"Clearing parasites has definitely been one of those big game changers with working with people. In my mind, in order to really go after Lyme, and detox the body, parasites have to be addressed."
Connect with Dr. Nick Ellenson
Website - https://www.totalbodywellnessclinic.com/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/nicholas.ellenson
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/totalbodywellnessclinic/
Connect With Dr. Jane Levesque
Website - https://www.drjanelevesque.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drjanelevesque/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrJaneLevesque/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@dr.janelevesque7319
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Transcripts
Dr. Nick Ellenson
0:00 - 0:26Ignore this for outputs
It obviously takes time to get to where it's a problem. It can take time to go the other way and create momentum that you're clearing more than you're they're accumulating. So persistence and consistency of parasite cleansing I found to be the most impactful things when it comes to clearing parasites. And again, it can take a lot longer than you would think to clear them.
Dr. Jane Levesque
0:26 - 1:56
ert. Tune in every Tuesday at:
Dr. Nick Ellenson
1:57 - 2:01
Hi. I'm excited to be here. Talk about one of my favorite topics.
Dr. Jane Levesque
2:01 - 2:34
Yes, parasites. That is the most exciting topic. I think, like I told you, just off, you know, off recording that most people that I, that come across me, they don't think that they have parasites. And then of course, as they watch some of my content or if once they start working with me and they realize that they do, they have a lot of questions. So I love to have the expert on parasites here with me today and detoxification in general. Let's dive into it tell me, do we really all have parasites? Where are they coming from? How are we getting them?
Dr. Nick Ellenson
2:34 - 3:36
Yeah, and parasites. There's a lot of misconceptions I would say, about parasites and kind of one of those taboo things that nobody wants to talk about. I've had people where they've brought it up to their medical doctors and also their medical doctors want to do psych evaluations because they start talking about parasites. So there's a lot of, I guess unknowns or questions about parasites. So parasites, it's one of those things I think everybody has. And like bacteria there's that healthy level, that homeostasis that we all have. I feel like parasites do have a unique role in us. It's again when they get overgrown, that's when they become a bigger problem, a big issue. So it's all about keeping things back into balance. The goal with parasite cleansing is not to kill absolutely everything in the body. Otherwise we would cease to exist.
Dr. Jane Levesque
3:36 - 3:59
But that's really, so that's a really good point because I didn't realize that about parasites. I do understand that about obviously because where we have pathogenic bacteria in our bodies and there is a normal level of bad bacteria that we should have, but they need to be at bay versus. It's when they come out of control. So I didn't realize that about parasites. That's a really great insight.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
3:59 - 7:02
at the parasites actually had:
Dr. Jane Levesque
7:02 - 7:22
Yeah. So is it fair to say that the parasite. Because it seems like there is this parasite epidemic, right. Like a. We've been talking about it for a really long time, but now, like, the mainstream medicine is catching up. But is it fair to say that the toxins are the reason that the parasites are overgrowing in the way that they are? Is that kind of what we're seeing?
Dr. Nick Ellenson
7:22 - 8:46
Yeah. And that's, I feel like a big driver of why there's the overgrowth of parasites. It comes back to the fact that we're being exposed to more toxins than we ever have been through our food, in the environment, in our water. There's the EPA list of known chemicals out there. There's over like 84,000, like 45, 46,000 that are currently being used. So there's a lot of stuff that we do get exposed to and that accumulates in us and again, leads to, I believe, that overgrowth of parasites. I mean, you can throw bacteria, fungus in there as well. They're a big piece of that as well. But definitely, I feel like that's a big driver for a lot of the parasite issues that we have. So there's that one side of it. There's obviously we can still be exposed to different things that can play a role in it. But at the same time we have to. Our bodies almost have to be that susceptible host for that overgrowth to occur, which again, I feel like a lot of times it goes back to the toxicity and how that jacks our biochemistry and creates an environment that's very favorable for the parasites to be there and live and grow and thrive.
Dr. Jane Levesque
8:47 - 9:19
Yeah, I don't know if, you know, like a stat or if there is anything like that, but like how much do you feel like it's coming from within versus we're contracting it. So we like think that, okay, I went to Mexico and I got a parasite or I drank, you know, I went overseas or I did something and then that's how I got the parasite. Where right now, obviously just this short discussion. It's like, hey, maybe that's not the case. Maybe parasites have been there, but then that toxic load has just created this perfect environment for them to thrive. Do you know if there's a percentage of like 50% is contraction, 50 is from within or.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
9:20 - 9:24
That is a great question. I guess I haven't come across any stats on that.
Dr. Jane Levesque
9:24 - 9:26
I think it would be really hard to track.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
9:26 - 9:56
It would be, yeah. So you brought up a good point. I mean, again, part of the, one of the myths out there which there's some truth to this myth of that we need to travel to Mexico or some foreign country to get exposed to parasites, that we have this perception that the US is this clean and in Canada even, like there's this clean environment that there's no parasites magically here. But that's not the case. Parasites are everywhere.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:They are in the fish. And potentially, like, if you're eating fish, right, that's exposure.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yep.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Raw fish sushi.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Raw fish sushi. So that's one thing you'll never catch me eating is raw, raw sushi. I do like sushi, but it's always a cooked, cooked version of it. Not properly. Washing produce can be a big exposure. Drinking contaminated water, some in contaminated water being exposed to.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:How do you know the water is the contaminated? Like, because lakes essentially is just. You could just say that that's contaminated water pretty much.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:But yeah, again, that's where we'll probably get more into this later. But the benefits of being proactive, keeping the body healthy and doing regular parasite cleansing to make sure that we're staying on top of any exposures that we may have or come across. So going to foreign countries, like you said, there's probably some truth to that where I think we're definitely exposed to different parasites than we're exposed to in our environment. So there's some truth to that.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:It's like your immune system isn't used to that particular parasite and that's what right. Versus just because when people come from foreign countries into our country they may experience the same thing and that's just. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:So that's always one thing. If somebody's traveling different areas. Again, I always like to be proactive and have them start taking some antiparasitic formulas before they go while they're there and even for a while when they come back. And again just to be on the safe side so that we're not dealing with some big infection and dealing with not feeling good when you're on vacation because you want to feel good when you're on vacation. So it's just being, being proactive.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah. Now for those of people who like data, I know doctor Todd's famous test is if you have a pulse you have parasites. Do you bother doing any testing? What kind of testing do you do? You know, I've talked about even like filling out certain forms that help us like correlate certain symptoms to parasites. What, you know, what have you done that's been actually really helpful for people to recognize that they have parasites and you know, to connect the dots even during the treatment.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah. So I've found some challenges with a lot of tests where they may note show parasites actually coming up on the testing. So I think there's definitely some limitations to doing like a stool test and seeing things that show up. If you are seeing things that show up, obviously I feel like that's a big sign. You probably have a big overgrowth. But there's definitely some challenges with the like stool test for example, just because you're only looking at a certain percentage of the parasites. So with parasites, again, the big thing that we always think about is the big ones that you hear about and see. But a lot of the parasites we actually don't even see. They're more microscopic. So only about a third of parasites we can actually visibly see. About two thirds roughly we can't even see. So just the fact there, that puts some challenges on the testing because those microscopic ones, those, they're not going to be in the stool. It's one of those things that parasites not fun to think about but they essentially can be anywhere in the body. Again, we have this almost perception that they're always just hanging out in our digestive tract. But again that's not always the case.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:There's lots of more stuff coming out. Like they found parasite in the brain and in the blood or in the heart, and you're like, yeah, yep, yeah.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:I think there was a article, I don't know if you saw this one, Jane on RFK, talking about a parasite that he had found in his brain many years back. And so one interesting sidebar too, that kind of goes along with talking about parasites in the brain. So one of the things I work a lot with is people dealing with Lyme disease. And one of the studies, Doctor Alan McDonald, with some of the research he did, he was working with people that had passed away from Ms. And I think there was twelve cadavers that he was looking at, and twelve out of twelve, he found nematode parasites. So nematodes are just a type of parasite, and within the nematodes he found strains of Lyme disease within there you can find parasites in the brain. Again, it's not one of those fun things to think about, but it's.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:This is when the conventional system sends you for a psychiatric evaluation.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yep.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:But, you know, I've had people with Lyme disease on, and they were just like, the amount of brain inflammation that you experience and you feel like you're crazy. And it's just like, I'm not crazy, I have brain inflammation. I think it was Heather Gray that said that. And it's like, yeah, you're not crazy, you just have brain inflammation. But you know, when your conventional doctor doesn't believe you, it's very easy to just be like, no, no, it's just me. It's like, nope, you're not, it's, you're not. It's actually just like a parasite in your brain that's making you go nuts.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yep. Yeah. So for where we were going there, we're talking about lab work.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Lab work, yes. Finding parasites, it's tricky to test them.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:There we go. So with testing them can be tricky. So one of the things that. So I don't know if you're familiar with doctor Klinghardt. One of the things learning from some of his teachings years back, he talked about how parasites release different enzymes that essentially once they're out of a host, they start breaking themselves down. So by the time looking at like a stool test, for example, by the time that stool test would get to the lab, get tested, parasites were basically showing up undetected because they broke themselves down. And the other challenge is their labs are only looking at a certain percentage of the parasites. So what you have and what they're testing for may not be one that they're looking at. And I've seen this to be the case. I mean, I've had clients where they've clearly passed parasites, took it out of their stool, sent it to the lab, come up negative as a parasite.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:So see, there's, I've had patients do the same thing. They're like, nope, can be the parasite. They must have eaten something weird.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Like, I mean, yeah, so I've seen that where certain testing, again, doesn't show anything. But then as soon as you start doing parasite cleansing, it's like all this stuff starts coming out. It's like, why didn't that show up on the lab? So labs, labs again, there's definitely some limitations there. Questionnaire, you mentioned questionnaire. That's one of the things that I have everybody fill out is a big questionnaire. Part of that is asking a bunch of parasite related symptom questions. So you can find out a lot just based off of symptoms. So a couple big ones. One is anemia or low ferritin, low iron levels, because a couple examples of where parasites can and how they can affect are things like anemia is certain parasites like babesia malaria, they actually live inside the red blood cells. So they're basically hijacking red blood cells, damaging them, which is going to play or affect how the oxygen levels are. So energy levels, but also affect iron levels.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:So again, yeah, it's something that I struggled for for a long time. Like, I had low ferritin and low iron and taken, and it was always like, oh, it's because I'm pregnant and then postpartum and I'm still recovering. And before that it was IB's, which really was parasites. I obviously just didn't know that. And with myself and with most of my patients now, they're like, I can't believe my ferritin and my iron levels. They've never been like that. And I'm not taking any iron, you know, and they're not doing any even organ meat blends or whatever. So it's like as long as you're eating certain foods and there isn't a leech that's eating up all your iron stores and your red blood cells. What did, I don't remember who said that at eco. It's like red blood cells are like a rib eye to parasites. It's just like, oh, cool, makes sense.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Good analogy.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah, good analogy. Very good. People understand that I love ribeyes and.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Then you have like hookworms, where again, given the leech analogy, I mean, that's essentially what they do is they hook on. They literally have like a hook and they hook on. And again, just take our. Eat our blood, basically eating that ribeye. So you can look at different lab values, like lab values for anemia, iron levels, eosinophils. That can be a big one, a big red flag for parasites. So elevated eosinophils, elevated CRP. CRP is a protein made by the liver and an inflammatory marker. So parasites create a lot of inflammation inside the body and wreak a lot of havoc, one from some of the tissue damage that they can cause. But also they're pooping, they're peeing, they're releasing different toxins that will trigger that inflammatory process with inside of us. Another big area that parasites love and definitely affect is the liver. So you can look at things like liver enzymes, alt ast, alkaline phosphatase, GGT. So there's a bunch of different lab values on more your standard bloodwork, cbc that you can look at to get some good indicators as far as. Okay, you start checking a bunch of boxes off. Okay, seeing this, this, this definitely looking at symptoms, seeing big changes around the full moon.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Rashes. Talk about rashes.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yep, yep. So again, start seeing all these different red flags. Okay. Know that parasites are going to be a piece of this puzzle in your journey, and I getting you well. So. So, yeah, there's definitely some challenges with it, but there's also a lot of good markers out there and good ways to evaluate.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah, I mean, if I see any inflammation in the gut. So, like what? I'll do stool analysis. And for the most part, I'm not doing stool analysis to look, if there's parasites, it's. I. Based on what I've learned through Cellcore and just like, you know, my own journey and with my patients, it's a, hey, we do have a high parasitic load because we have a high toxic burden load and we just need to see how bad it is and what, how much the inflammation, because like you said, if you are actually seeing parasites in the stool, usually that overgrowth is really, really big. And when I've detoxed parasites and environmental toxins, all of a sudden progesterone levels go up and there's no amount of vitex that this woman sitting in front of me, she was taking it for years and she's like, I heard it takes time and it's like, doesn't take years to get. You're working on the wrong thing. And that's just because there's something else that is causing the deficiency. So I very much am in like, yeah, if you have a pulse in our day and age, you probably have parasites. But the level of those parasites is going to be very different for people. And usually the discomfort is there in their symptoms.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah. And I think there's that misconception too, is that when you do parasite cleansing, everybody's gonna see all this gobs of stuff coming out.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Cause there's a lot of people online sharing it now, you know, and so it's like, that's the one third of the people who can see it. But, you know, a lot of people don't have it visible.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Or you're like not digging through your stool. Cause you just like, whatever, you know.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Like, it's not very noticeable.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah, just let it go.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah, yeah. It's interesting how working with a bunch of people, how they become detectives with their stool and getting out their plastic forks, their chopsticks.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:I think Javin had a really great post where he's just like, puts the chopsticks. And I was like, yeah, these people are nuts.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah. So that's the big thing too, is like, not everybody's going to see stuff come out. I can't say that I've definitely seen stuff, but it's not like I've seen this huge amount of stuff coming out. But I've definitely had clients where they've seen lots of stuff come out. So there's a huge range in variation as far as what somebody sees as they're parasite cleansing.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:And let's talk about the full moon. Why is the full moon a reason where people get aggravated, parasites are more active. What's the actual mechanism here?
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah, that was the full moon. I remember back when Doctor J and I were in the chiropractic office together and there would joke was always when people were starting to act kind of crazy, it was like, oh, must be coming up to a full moon. And again, not really knowing there was that big correlation with parasites and other bugs too, being more active around there. So a lot of the life cycles match up with the full moon where. And a lot of times even the new moon. So every so you got your full moon, then two weeks later you got the new moon, two weeks later you got the full moon. So you're on a two week cycle. And so seeing that cyclical nature of symptoms where again, it's either increasing during the full moon or new moon. And there definitely seems to be some variation. Certain full moons, whether they're more intense than others, if that plays a factor. But not every full moon I see symptoms increasing, but there's definitely a big correlation with that. Where I'd be all of a sudden getting a bunch of emails from clients around the full moons that wondering why their symptoms were increasing. Look at the calendar. I'm like, oh, coming up to a full moon, so starting to see those connections. Digging into some of the research, there's fluctuations with serotonin and melatonin levels. There's some connection with the increase in serotonin levels that activates parasite activity. So there is even some connection there.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:And like the melatonin decreasing, that causes the serotone to increase. And that's what's causing the parasites to get more activated.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Decreases the immune system, allows for inflammation to increase. So there's some other factors in there. But. But yeah, that's always one of the things that I ask every client as I'm doing their intake questionnaires, asking them if they're noticing symptom changes around the full moon. And a lot of times I haven't really paid attention to that. It's like, well, that's something you want to start to track and see if there is that connection there.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:My patients say that all the time. And then I'm like, how often does it happen? Oh, it's about once a month. Okay. And so it's like once a month. And then I just start to like, hey, just pay attention. Because sometimes it is more new moon, sometimes it's full moon, sometimes it's both. So then it's hard to obviously. And then if it's a female and there's hormone fluctuations as well, you're like trying to piece all of it together. But I just took on a male patient who, I mean, there are a couple, but he is struggling with all the rashes, all the signs. It's like, how often does it come on? He's like, oh, there's no pattern. But about once a month I was like, I think there's a pattern. Yeah, let's figure it out.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah. And the interesting thing too is I think there's some misconceptions too. It's like it's got to be directly on the full moon for it to be affected by the full moon. But one of the things that I've noticed is that a majority of people, it's almost that lead up to the full moon. So maybe three, four days out, start having some increase in symptoms and then again may last three, four days and then starts to go away. I have had a few that don't really notice it on the lead up to the full moon is more after the full moon. But I would say it's mostly that lead up to the actual full moon. So it's always one thing or the thing I tell people is just kind of keep an eye around that week around the full moon. And then so with knowing that parasites are more active around the full moon, you can obviously use that as part of the treatment tool in that you can use do like full moon cleanses. So using their increase in activity to go after them. Uh, so that is a tool that utilize with clients and it's more of one of those things. I like to do that after they've done some more general parasite cleansing. Sometimes if somebody's brand new, improve their drainage.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Like liver is working well, gut is working well, you're hydrating properly, you've decreased at least some of your toxic load because, yeah, I've had people have reactions just by starting to eat more vegetables. So like when I put them on the ten weeks detox and it's like you have to eat two and a half cups and they'll start at like one and a half cups and they'll start to have herx reactions. So like detox reactions just from eating more vegetables. And it's like not really ready to do a full parasite cleanse yet. Like it's powerful stuff, you know?
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yep. Yeah. And that's where it's almost like you need to bring down some of that overall load, toxic load and even parasite load so early on the approach. If they're somebody who's super sensitive, I'm not going to push it during the full moon. If anything, I'll maybe pull back on the parasite formulas, increase drainage, increase binders, and then as they're a more seasoned or advanced client, then we can push it more during the full moon and three, five days around the full moons to just really go after things and again, just going after the fact that theyre going to be more active around that time.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah. So I mean now that were in this, how long should somebody be really like whats realistic to cleanse parasites? I know that theres a lot of different factors, but ive had people come to me and be like ive done parasite cleansing and it was like a two week or a full moon cleanse or maybe even a month where they felt like they really gave it their all. What's actually realistic for people when it comes to parasite cleansing?
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah. To do a deep, thorough parasite cleanse, I generally tell clients minimum six, seven months but realistically it's going to take longer. And there's always that. How the heck does it take that long to clear parasites? So a couple of things to keep in mind is that with parasites, they can be at any level of life cycle stage from an egg to assist to immature adult to an adult. And so the different herbs are going to obviously target different stages of life. So maybe good at going after eggs, some might be more at the adult forms. So the fact that they're in different stages of life, they can, it can take some time to basically get ahead on clearing them out faster than they can reproduce. And example of that, as I was again researching parasites that always has stuck with me, is looking at a single female, scarus lumbricoides, a round worm. One adult female can lay over 200,000 eggs in a day. So trying to overcome. Yeah, trying to overcome that, let alone obviously if there's more than one. So it can take some time to, again, obviously takes time to get to where it's a problem. It can take time to go the other way and create momentum that you're clearing more than you're. They're accumulating. So persistence and consistency of parasite cleansing I found to be the most impactful things when it comes to clearing parasites. And again, it can take a lot longer than you would think to clear them. I mean, I've had circumstances where I've clients who have been clearing parasites for year, two years, and.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:And like clearing you actually, they're like.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Pooping them out and physically seeing them. Yep.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yep.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:So there's a lot of factors that play a role in why somebody would be seeing them for that long and still clearing them.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:What are some factors? Is it like they're still exposed quite a bit? Like there's still a high toxic load?
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah, those are probably going to be the two big things, high toxin load. So maybe they're still living in mold, maybe there's still something in their toxins, in their water, the foods that they're eating, and then it's maybe something there. They've got their lovely animals that they're continuing to expose them to. So again, there can be a lot of different factors, but some people, again, it just takes longer. Their immune system is more suppressed. There's just, again, a lot of things that they have to overcome to get ahead, essentially. And so everybody's a little bit different in how long. And as I mentioned to you, it's like some people see gobs of stuff coming out, some people don't. The other interesting thing kind of going back to the. Where toxicity plays a role into things. I've seen a correlation where there's certain clients, where it's almost like there's a bigger toxicity issue that helps to unlock the parasite issue. And then there's the people that, it's like they look at the bottle of parasite formula, and it's like they start passing parasites. So with that second group, you definitely need to do some deeper parasite work and be working on bringing down the overall toxicity level of things. And then that other group or toxins seem to be a big factor. They tend to be people where they can jump up to relatively high doses relatively quickly, very minimal symptoms, if any. But you start doing some deeper detox with them and then circle back and do some more parasite cleansing. It's like all sudden floodgates have opened up and start clearing parasites at a whole nother level.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:So, yeah, that was the case for us, too. Like, when we worked together, and there was a lot of. When we did lots of drainage, and it was like that drainage activator being at six caps twice a day for, I don't know, two months, I think it was, or even three months, really high dose, and then all of a sudden, and then do a parasite push, it's like, whoa, there's a lot more stuff that all of a sudden has come out that it felt like your body just wasn't ready or didn't have the drainage capacity right to get rid of it. It's huge.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yep. And I was kind of same category, too, wherever. I definitely needed to do more detoxing, and it's very similar with higher dosing drainage activator, and then I was able to start clearing some more stuff. So, yeah, full moons, again, can just be a tool in the toolbox as far as how to go after parasites.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah. Tell me, is there an instance where you go for meds versus just relying on the herbs? And how do you know when it's the time to do some meds?
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah, I would say majority of people don't need to go to the herbs or the meds meds. I find that the herbs do really well at clearing things, but there's definitely those tougher cases where you're doing all their due diligence and high dosing some of the parasite formulas and just, again, can't seem to fully get over the hump. Then that's where utilizing some of the parasitic medications can come in handy to help with. Again, just going to that next little level. But the one of the drawbacks that I've seen where. Why wouldn't you just go to the medications versus the herbs? Is that a lot of the medications aren't going to go after and address.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:The eggs or the drainage capacity. Right. Like liver function, gut function, that stuff.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yep. Yeah. I mean, being on medication definitely can be more challenging on liver, kidneys, just some of those different drainage organs.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah, I've had to. There's a couple patients that I've had to because I wouldn't, I don't want to say like, I would take it back. Because you want to try the herbs first. You want to. I mean, the first thing I do before you introduce, right, is that drainage, you're improving drainage and energy, so the mitochondrial function, so your body actually has the energy to detox. And then, you know, I had a kid and I know that the mom is going to listen to this podcast where it's like, hey, we've done for like three or four months and he's still not, he's like passing a little bit of eggs, but not like he still has this umbilical cord, like behind his belly button. The severe pain. And then when we do the meds, usually it's like a day. Right. Depending on the medication that you choose, you're only taking it for a day, maybe two or three days. And then once we did that, he really started to pass a lot of parasites because it just kind of opened the floodgates. But then the herbs come in to help support killing the eggs, supporting the drainage. And a lot of the herbs are like anti inflammatory as well. So I find that they really help with like, immune system regulation. And so the meds, as appealing as it might seem to just be like, just do this thing, it's three days and you're done. A lot of the times it might get like the big mother, but it doesn't get all the eggs and everything else that comes with it. So you have to do the inflammation support. So I wanted to, you know, thanks for your insight there. It's, what do we do? You know, because it's, you want to get them out, but sometimes you do need to pull out, quote unquote big guts.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah, yeah. And that's even where I found impactfulness of doing even some of the high dose parasite pulsing. So high dose, shorter time period that you're doing that.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah. How high dose do you go? Just so people understand, because I think they're like, I took four caps twice a day.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah. So me personally, and I don't have all my clients go this quite this high. So, like, with period four, I've went up to 20 caps twice a day. Pair three, I've did ten dropper fulls three times a day, so can go pretty high. But again, taking that amount of herbs can be challenging on the body and let alone if you're clearing stuff. So, again, that's where you want.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:You have to know what you're doing at that dose. Like, you just have to, it's, you have to have the drainage tools. Like, when I have in my program, like, here are the drainage support things, and it's like haru sauna, red light therapy, gastro packs, coffee enemas, water enemas, like dry brushing, all of these things where it's like, if you're gonna push your system, you better know how to support it instead of just like, sign up for a marathon and hope that they have what they need, what you need at the aid station, you know, it's like, no, no, no, we're not gonna do that. We're gonna set up our eight stations.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yep. So, again, that's a definitely a more advanced move. It's not somebody, something gonna do with somebody brand new. It's, again, after you've cleared out that low level things. And again, sometimes you need the big guns, higher dosage to go after the big ones. So more herbs that you have, the more it's going to go after those bigger ones and basically kill them and clear them versus at lower doses, maybe just poking the bear and ticking them off. And that is the interesting thing that I've seen with some people is that it's almost like they get more symptoms at lower doses then at higher doses. Because, again, you're poking that proverbial bear, taking them off with just a little bit of herbs, so they're mounting a response, releasing different inflammatory markers, cytokines, and creating that uncomfortableness, creating those symptoms so that we basically want to stop killing them. But it's, again, because they, they want to live, they don't want to die. So it's under. Yeah. So it's understanding some of those things as your parasite cleansing. I jokingly tell people, kind of expect in everything when it comes to fluctuations with symptoms and seeing things coming up and talked about skin rashes, changes with bowel movements, changes with sleep, you can experience a lot of different things, and again, because of how they're affecting our body, and again, trying to make us feel uncomfortable. So it's, again, it's that delicate balance of going after them, because if you're getting those symptom changes, it's a good sign that you're going after the right thing. That's one thing from a symptom standpoint. We've always kind of been trained that symptoms are bad thing, but at the same time can be a good thing in that it can be part of that guide that we are going after something. And so it's, again, kind of keeping things in perspective that if we are seeing some of those die off symptoms as we're going after parasites or whatever we may be going after, it's a good sign that we're going after a bigger factor in why we're having health issues in the first place. So it's definitely something we need to lean into and go after. But again, it's going about it in a smart way where we're pushing, but not pushing too much, too quickly. We're triggering a crash with somebody. That's the last thing that we want to do. So it's adjusting the dosage as we need to. Maybe we need to bring in some extra drainage support, some extra binders just to help with symptom manager.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:The die off effect. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yep. As we're clearing things.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah. I would say it's different when you have symptoms, and that's just your state versus you are working through something in the body, because the expression of the, you know, of the bug is how the body heals. Just like we have to express the emotion to release it. It's the same, you know, it's the same thing here. And I remember when we first started doing parasite cleansing, I would just get this, like, crazy rash on my stomach, on my lower abdomen, kind of where that sigmoid colon is, and it would just be, like, really big and really itchy for. And it would be around ovulation. And so the reason that it's around ovulation, which kind of has really clicked for me, is because pathogens really love estrogen. And so it's a really great time to test the female for our gut vaginal microbiome, any, like, pathogenic Sti's, STD screens to do it around ovulation. So every time around ovulation, I remember it was like a really big rash, and then the next month it was a little bit smaller, and then the next month it was a bit smaller, and then it was, you know, just kind of like, you could see that the skin wanted to flare out, but it didn't. And then it was just completely gone. But it took, like, four or five months around ovulation to see it go from you know, a really big progression. And sometimes when you feel like these things don't make sense and it's like they always do, you're missing something. Right? Like you're missing an information, piece of information that you know about a certain pathogen or how it is or the life cycle. And, you know, you being a researcher, I'm sure you can resonate with that, where it's like, oh, gotta go deeper into the rabbit hole and find that piece of information that I'm missing.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah. Bringing up even fluctuations with cycles and parasite cleansing. That is one interesting thing I've noticed with a few clients where there's always certain formulas would trigger it more than others, but they would start taking the formula and be like, three, five days into taking the formula, and all of a sudden, it was triggering a cycle with them, start having their menstrual cycle. It's like, hmm, okay, we're definitely going. Getting into something here.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah. That happened to me a couple times as well when we were working together.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah. So you can notice them, even some fluctuations with cycles as your parasite cleansing one. I think the. How the different parasites can affect our hormone levels and trigger some fluctuation there. But also I feel like part of it can be the body being smart. And with our cycle, the, I feel like the body is just going through a big detox, a big flush. It's just trying to get rid of excess things. So you're clearing a lot of things. So it's just trying to facilitate that. And the other thing is that can have parasites in the uterus. And so again, and you do.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:I was just say, ladies, you can pass parasites through uterus. Sometimes my women are like, I found something in my cycle, but it's not. It doesn't. It's not mucus, it's not a clot. Uh, you know, sorry, I just. We got to get it out. Like, it makes sense why you've had implantation issues or you've had a lot of pain in your cycle or whatever, because if there's little critters that have made it home and they're, you know, causing issues and inflammation within your endometrium, it's like, we got to get them out.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yep. Yeah. So, so with some of those. Yeah, one of them was looking at toxo toxoplasm, or toxoplasma gondii. So toxoplasmosis. So that's a parasite that's common in cats and cat feces. So one of the, I guess the things to avoid for pregnant women is to not change a litter box for during that or while they're pregnant because there can be that exposure to toxoplasmosis. And interesting thing with the toxoplasmosis is that found that it affects the testosterone levels. There's different studies where some of them it caused an increase in testosterone levels and others it caused a decrease in testosterone levels. Interesting thing with this parasite is there's with increase in testosterone that obviously can play a pivotal role in certain traits. More aggressive behavior, more risk taking. There's a bunch of studies that were linked in this one study how there was article showing how toxoplasmosis, and again, the effects of testosterone levels and aggressive behavior, violent behavior and depression, anxiety, and triggering all these different fluctuations. But it's one of those things that we, that I hadn't really thought about until coming across some of these research articles on how parasites can have basically an impact on testosterone levels, estrogen levels, and therefore can be even an impactful piece of the puzzle as to why some people are having trouble conceiving. And so the other study that was super interesting was another parasite that they found. This was a mice mouse study. And what they found with the male mice is that it increased serum estradiol level 200 times the normal value. Then testosterone, they found, decreased 90% of the control. And then with females, they also found an increase in estrogen in the blood about eight weeks after the mice were infected. And it also triggered an increase in uterus size. And then comparing that to control. So affecting estrogen levels and testosterone levels in this study. And then another study was that they found a decrease in estradiol level, testosterone and progesterone in females. This was a hamster study, I believe. And then what they found in the male hamsters was an increase in testosterone, decrease in progesterone. So again, the thing that I wanted to, again, just kind of reiterate with looking at these couple studies is how parasites have the ability to affect our hormone levels, which again, can play a big impact in fertility and being able to conceive or troubles conceiving. So again, just very interesting studies.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah, I always feel bad for all the mice and hamsters, you know.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:These poor little guys just getting infected and then they're watching them.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yep. And then.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah, well, the rabbit hole, like what I think would, this is where you really need a practitioner because there's, and I'm doing some training with Leah Hetchman, who has like a PhD on the side. And, you know, she's working on another PhD, just a really phenomenal fertility specialist. But one thing she said is like, I'm not against anything or I'm not for anything. I just look at the patient because every patient is going to need something different. So for somebody this is going to be an answer for you. And parasites is absolutely the main reason as to why you're not getting pregnant. For others, it's going to be something else. Parasites might be part of the picture, but that might not be the whole picture I've had. You know, some practitioners reach out to me after the eco event. It's like they've gone so deep into the parasite cleansing. It's like you're done with the parasite cleansing. Like you got to move on to the next step, you know. So my question to you was actually, do you see, is there a benefit to, so you do the main cleanse, lets say thats six months to a year. Is there something that you recommend doing on a regular basis?
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah. So looking at parasite cleansing after youve done kind of your big parasite cleanse, doing some more maintenance, parasite cleansing. So once, twice a year take in, I like to take about a month and do kind of a deep dive into the parasite formulas. And again, it's more just to be on the proactive side, just to make sure that we're not having that overgrowth of parasites again. Because again, as clean and food we eat, trying to control the environment as much as we can, we're still going to be exposed to things. We're not going to live in a magic bubble.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:All the environmental lectures are like so depressing and honestly, like, and even like listening to Leah's because to me she's like, I know you guys are not going to like me after this. And I'm like, I'm used to it because of just, it's like, yeah, the people that deny the environmental toxin, it's like, listen, I don't want to be the person that tells you your water is poisonous. Like, I don't want to do it. But you know, the five stages of grief, at least the old version, it's like the quicker you go through that and you stop and bargaining or you denying and, you know, we go through the anger phase and then you have the acceptance so you can start doing about it, do something about it, and then obviously impact your decisions on like consumerism and what you buy and the companies you support and blah, blah, blah. It's like, I don't want to be the person to tell you that we're living in a poisonous bubble, but we are. And you need to become aware and make the necessary steps and changes and, you know, continue to thrive as much as we can in this world. But. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. It's like, hey, we need to do these cleanses. It sounds like because of just this exposure that we have that's out of our control. A lot of it anyway. Some of it anyways. Not a lot, but some of it for sure.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah, it's definitely from working with patients for as long as I have. It's definitely been one of the most impactful things. I mean, just, there's definitely been some bigger pieces as we've learned more, and just always researching, always testing new things out. Clearing parasites has definitely been one of those big game changers with working with people. Part of the background is working with a lot of lime clients and with lime people, where, again, there's always that cyclical nature of then have the Lyme symptoms, come on, take some herbs, bring those down, go away. And six months later is coming back again. It's like, what the heck? Why can't we get ahead here and have things go away? It was when finally started to do parasite cleansing that that really seemed to make an impact with that. And part of that is it goes back to how even approaching going after things, and again, trying to look at things from that linear system or approach of how to approach things, I do find that addressing parasites earlier on in the process as being one of the more impactful things. Again, part of that is going back to what we talked about earlier in that you can have other parasites, other bacteria, other fungus, toxins inside the parasite. So if we're not going after parasites, you're missing a big hiding place for a lot of these things. So in my mind, in order to really go after lyme, go after and detox the body, parasites have to be.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Or even mold and fungus, right? Like, if somebody is constantly. I see it all the time where people are like, I've been treating candida for the last year, and it's like, you're treating the wrong thing. Like, it's not, you know, it's still. Symptoms are still popping up, and it is confusing for even as a clinician, I get overwhelmed all the time where it's like, oh, my God, like, why is this so complicated? But you also have to take it back down to the basics of like, hey, if you're not pooping, if you're not drinking enough water, if you're constantly bombarding yourself with toxins, like, the body just can't get rid of stuff once it started getting rid of stuff, you have to test, you have to see people on a regular basis versus just when they're flaring. It's, you know, to actually make it be a successful journey to the other side.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yes. Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:Yeah. A little bit of like a, I don't know, like a spiritual, I guess question. But I'm wondering if you notice a change in personality and change in like because, you know, you can look at someone and you could say, oh, this person has parasites. What is it that makes you say that? The reason that I was thinking about this is, again, I was watching a module on the oocytes and she's like, what did your eggs do for you? How would you feel if your eggs weren't functioning properly or how you feel in menopause versus how you feel at the prime of your fertility? And I was just like, yeah, there's something about even individual bugs, right? Like when somebody has parasites, have you noticed something in terms of the personality and spirituality and just like how the person is when they have parasites versus when they dont? What is the change that you see?
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah, so I think even from energetic level where weve had like those more energetic parasites in our lives, its almost like it creates that energetic susceptibility to physical parasites within side.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:And when you mean energetic parasites, you mean people who leech things from you? Yes. Okay. Just making sure we're on the same page. Okay.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah. So again, there's definitely some connection there. I've seen even with like people with a lot of more like mental emotional struggles. I've seen this a big change with people where dealing with chronic anxiety, depression, anger, again, sadness, a lot of those big emotions. I've also seen big fluctuations or changes with parasite cleansing. So there's an interesting book. This is your brain on parasites. And that book helped to shed some light on some of this, on how parasites through, again, the chemicals and toxins, neurotoxins that they release. And again, this even I feel like goes back to some of the toxoplasmosis study and how it can, different bugs can cause some of these mood emotional changes. Or again, diagnosis of like bipolar schizophrenia. I feel like even this goes into that conversation too on how they impact the brain. And I've definitely seen that where you start parasite cleansing and all of a sudden big anxiety, depression, big mood changes with the parasite cleansing. And again, it's not that person is necessarily having those fluctuations. It goes back to what the bugs and some of the control and effect that they have on us and their brain, our brain. And so within that book, they give a bunch of different examples on how parasites and different animals and insects and how they basically affect the behavior of the bugs. So basically, and even talked about it in that toxoplasmosis study, too, on basically controlling the brain. So do different things to continue the transmission or pass parasites to infect other people. So one of the things with that toxoplasmosis study talking about how high testosterone levels and how it affects females, it increases their and males, too, the desire to reproduce. And therefore, during producing, you're passing the bugs to other people. So again, you're transmission, sharing and caring.
Dr. Jane Levesque
-:When it comes to the microbiome. Like, unfortunately, but you're even, like, you don't even have to be intimate. But like, if you're sleeping in the same bed, you're sharing a microbiome, you know, in the foods that you cook and how the food tastes. I think, I think it's an amazing concept. And it's really important to, like, if we're literally, we are all bugs just walking around. And if you have these big parasites that are leaching your energy, I think the energetics of who you are will be different. And that's something that, you know, like I couldn't pick up on until I got rid of more parasites. And then it's like now you could see it when somebody has a parasite, the way that they think, the way that they talk to you, even the way that they look. And then obviously the circle of people that they spend time with, because I don't, correct me if I'm wrong, but sometimes we see people who are just getting reinfected and it's because they haven't actually changed who they are. And they continue to let people take advantage of them. They can't say no. They haven't said any boundaries. Their immune system is suppressed, and so they're just going to continue to get reinfected. Every time they go out to eat at a restaurant, boom, you know, their systems flares because they just haven't, you know, they haven't set up the boundaries or they haven't actually changed, changed who they are.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
-:Yeah. And one interesting observation that I've seen, too is as people where they've definitely the emotional side, mental emotional side is a bigger piece for them and start to use different programs or seek out help to work through those things as they start releasing again, kind of that talking about the energetic parasite, releasing some of those stuck emotions it almost leads to that physical release of parasites. And even with the new me support, I've seen a very similar thing where haven't fed people where they're not on any parasite formulas. But yeah, I got mine right here too. But start taking something like me support where it's again going to help with clearing some of those stuck emotions and all of a sudden start passing parasites. And it's not an anti parasitic formula. It's just again, there's something with that emotional.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::Your nervous system has relaxed too, right? Like your nervous system has relaxed and it can release and. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::So, yeah, it's just interesting that there is. You wouldn't think that there would be that connection there, but there definitely is.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::Yeah, yeah. We're energetic beings but also just bags of bacteria.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::Yep.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::That's it. Walking around and it's fascinating. So anything like. Thank you. This was incredible. Anything that we forgot to talk about around parasites that is important for people to know?
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::Yes. I feel like one of the big things that we didn't get into yet is, and it's a very common question I get is what about parasite cleansing during pregnancy or nursing?
Dr. Jane Levesque
::Yeah, never. Yeah.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::So when somebody is gonna. I feel like obviously with a lot of work you do, Jane. I feel like the prep work for pregnancy, getting the bodies as healthy as possible before pregnancy. I feel like that's where a lot of the work should be focused on is taking that time to do the preparation and prepare the body for the task of raising a child.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::Growing a baby from scratch. Yeah, it's insane.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::Yep.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::It's an insane task.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::Yep.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::And it's hard to do it if you already have things leaching your nutrients. I think like that's the message is, hey, it's a lot of energy. Like an insane amount, your mitochondria. The healthier it is, the easier it is that's going to be. But also just like the nutrients and your methylation and detox pathways is all going to be really strained. So if you have a parasite that's leeching at your vitality on a regular basis, it's taking away from what it is that you can give to your baby. It's taking away from you. And so again, this is why I emphasize the pre work, because you'll get into it. But it's like you can't take 20 pills of paraphor twice a day when you're pregnant or breastfeeding.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::Yeah. During pregnancy. That is not the time to be pushing detoxification or parasite cleansing. Obviously there's some gray area there if somebody's having a bunch of symptoms again there.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::Yeah, I've done some really low dose stuff and I mean, I don't take patients on, not yet anyways, for when they're pregnant. I take my patients that I've taken through their fertility journey, I'll take them through pregnancy and postpartum because I know them really well. And if weve treated a lot of parasites and they start to have a little bit of flare, its like really low doses of things. Its para one, one cap a day versus the standard dose is two caps twice a day. And well do that for a week during the full moon as opposed to the big pushes that weve talked about. So there is for sure some gray area, but youre doing very, very minimal if you are. And I only feel comfortable as a practitioner when I know the patient really well. Like I've seen their lab work when they're not pregnant during the first trimester, like how I understand them and what they've done in their cleanup environment. Otherwise it's like, no, I can't take that responsibility, you know.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::Yep. Yep.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::It's too great.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::Yeah. And then when it comes to nursing, there's a little bit more of wiggle room there. But again, I always like to wait until baby is at least three months old before start doing some more work with mom. And again, the only reason that we'd be doing work while mom is nursing is because she's dealing with some issues or maybe a baby is too. But otherwise, if mom's doing good, we won't be doing any pushing of parasites or detoxing until she is ideally done with nursing. And there is, again, some benefits of if the baby is having issues and obviously trying to get a baby to swallow capsules or take supplements, obviously it's not going to happen. Yep. So we can utilize mom to transfer some of those nutrients, herbs to the baby through breast milk. So that can be a strategy or an approach to working with mom and baby if baby's again having some issues while nursing. So again, there's some work around. But again, the main takeaway with that is you want to do the work before pregnancy or after pregnancy nursing to really do a deep dive into all the things we were talking about because again, we want to just take the proper precaution so that we're growing as healthy baby as we can.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::Yeah. Well, when I first started working with you, right, with my husband, it's like I was still breastfeeding, but I was probably around like the 16 month mark. So we started doing some drainage. We started doing, but we didn't really turn on really big kind of parasite cleansing until I was completely done. And just to be, like, so transparent that my listeners know, it's like I pre. Like, I had parasites with my first. I know that now. I didn't know that then. So, you know, ignorance is bliss at some point, but I've also taken, like, an insane amount of nutrients when I was pregnant, which I think helped to, you know, offset some of the nutrient depletion. But I for sure, like, passed it on, meaning I'm on my daughter all the time, like, watching for symptoms that she has around parasites and full moon, and. And she's already done parasite cleansing with us around the full moon, and she'll get, like, she had nightmares this full moon, and it was like, can you give me the medication that helps with the. And it's para three and para four that we're doing. And she just takes para three straight up, which is very impressive for a six year old. You know, she doesn't need a lot of drops. She takes, you know, like, five or six drops, and she's good, but it helps her with the nightmares, you know, and it helps her with her digestion. So do I wish that I knew this information before I got pregnant? 100%. If you're listening to this and you didn't have this information, you have a kid and you're like, oh, my God. I think it's like, yeah, it's okay. The best time to plant a tree was ten years ago. The next time is today. It's like, I didn't know this information either. I didn't know this either. So you can. Absolutely. It definitely becomes trickier with kids, but, you know, it's not like you're doomed for the rest of your life.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::Yes, I agree.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::Yep. Thank you. That was a really good point. Tell people where they can find you if they want to work with you. How do they get a hold of you?
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::Yeah, so I work through total body wellness clinic, so total body wellnessclinic.com with doctor Randy. Doctor Randy. I know he's been on here on podcast before, so doctor Randy, myself, and Carol Egan work at total body wellness. So that's where I'm at. I also work for Cellcore as a lead educational researcher, so help with educating practitioners and customers on how to utilize the supplements. So it's kind of a fun, fun role where each kind of helps the other side of things and having the knowledge of the supplements, working with patients, but also working with patients. And the supplements helps educate the practitioners and customers on understanding the products and how they work and the little intricacies of the products. And so. Yeah.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::Yep. That's awesome. Like I said, I worked with you for 18 months. Couldn't recommend it enough. If you want to dive deep into parasite cleansing, I definitely think you're the guy. Or any chronic illness, right? In general, even with Lyme, if you've been struggling for a long time, I highly, highly recommend that you reach out to Doctor Nick, like he said, find him a total body wellness clinic and get those parasites out. Guys, you can do it.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::Yes. You can do it.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::You'll be a better. You'll be a better person for it. I can almost guarantee it.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely one of those things I feel like everybody can definitely benefit from.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::In our day and age. Yeah, I think, like, I listen and, you know, I'll listen to like Joe Rogan or, and he has the sniffles and it's like, oh, it's allergies. I'm like, it's parasites. It's not allergies, it's parasites. So anyways, we'll keep talking and spreading the news and the information. I think the more people experience it, the change, it's like it's you. It's profound, you know? I mean, Doctor Todd started Selcor because of his experience with parasites. So look at where it is now. Yeah, look at where it is now. So thanks so much, Doctor Nick, for being here.
Dr. Nick Ellenson
::My pleasure. Thanks for having me on.
Dr. Jane Levesque
::Thank you so much for listening. To read the full show notes of this episode, including summary, timestamps, guest quotes, and any resources that were mentioned on the episode, visit drjanelevesque.com podcast. And if you're getting value from these episodes, I'd love it if you took two minutes to share it with a friend. Rate and leave me a review@ratethispodcast.com. doctorJane the reviews will help with the discoverability of the show, and who knows, I might share your review on my next episode. Thank you so much for tuning in and let's make your fertility journey, your healing journey.
